Could you address BP cooldown being wasted and put on full CD when it happens?

[Mookies75]

There are quite a few reasons why a BP timer would be wasted, sleep, stun, terror, a mob dying after use but before it goes off, your pet dying before it goes off, etc. I'm sure people could list more.

Perhaps treat it in the same way as a paralyzed spell if it does not go off? Maybe give SMN a new job trait that shortens BP recast if it does not activate? I don't know, those are just suggestions. This has bugged me for a long time.

Even with the bp timer reduction gear that exists now, I still think it's unfair when it happens, especially considering how important BP's are to the job.

[Clou777]

this... quality of life for sure

[Zekander]

The range issue has already been addressed, if you receive an 'out of range' message you can use your BP again immediately.

A lot of those issues would be helped, not fixed entirely mind you, by speeding up the BP charge time. Which is exactly what they are going to do in the next update.

As it stands it is treated exactly like when a spell gets paralyzed, it sets the recast time just as if you had successfully cast it, the only difference is that most spells have a very short recast time, especially with the currently high amounts of haste and fast cast that most spellcasters get.

Don't get me wrong, I know exactly how you feel, just the other day I fought AA MR on SMN and 9 times out of 10 she would use Havoc Spiral just as my avatar was readying a BP, and it frustrated the hell out of me.

[Mookies75]

The range issue has already been addressed, if you receive an 'out of range' message you can use your BP again immediately.

A lot of those issues would be helped, not fixed entirely mind you, by speeding up the BP charge time. Which is exactly what they are going to do in the next update.

As it stands it is treated exactly like when a spell gets paralyzed, it sets the recast time just as if you had successfully cast it, the only difference is that most spells have a very short recast time, especially with the currently high amounts of haste and fast cast that most spellcasters get.

Don't get me wrong, I know exactly how you feel, just the other day I fought AA MR on SMN and 9 times out of 10 she would use Havoc Spiral just as my avatar was readying a BP, and it frustrated the hell out of me.

Didn't realize they fixed the out of range thing. I tend to be extremely careful not to use it if out of range. That's cool.

Paralyzed spells can be recast almost immediately, paralyzed JA receive the full CD as if used, the only exception being 1hr abilities which follow the spell rules. Check the wiki, check in game.

My main concerns are Stun, Sleep, Stone, Terror, Death of mob, death of avatar. Things along those lines. I'm not 100% sure you get the full timer on a para'd bp rage/ward so I'll leave that out for now, I shall check when I get some time.

I'm not sure how much they intend to speed up the cast time, but there are tons of instances where these negative effects are spammed with impunity. So it will have to be pretty much instant if it's going to be a viable fix.

Also knowing that they were able to fix the out of range issue with BP timers, It seems to me that it would be pretty easy to implement the same fix for the situations I mentioned as a safety net.

[Zeargi]

The only good thing is that if you aren't Paralyzed but the avatar is then you don't have to worry about the BP. But the Death of Mobs/Avatar, Stun, Amnesia, etc. REALLY slows use down.

[Grekumah]

Adjustments to make it so the recast timer does not activate when Blood Pacts are not executed properly would be at the level of creating an entirely new ability, and we won't be able to address this at the moment.

[Jerbob]

While it is nice to see developers finally recognise this issue, I would like serious, concrete assurances that this won't be yet another thing that just falls by the wayside.

I'm going to be honest here. Summoners have consistently had to be patient when it comes to having glaring job deficiencies fixed. Things have improved but there are still parts of the jobs that are just broken. Not undesirable or weak - broken. BP timers being wasted has been a thorn in our side for such a long time, and it's only getting worse with the introduction of AoE stun additional effect melee swings and near instant cast sleepga/breakga/etc.

This kind of bug fix, that can significantly affect the operation of the primary functionality of a job, should be addressed as a priority. I understand the work to fix this might be significant, and thus might need to wait for already scheduled work to be completed, but it needs to happen. Can we please get some information to give us something to hope for?

[Catmato]

I would like serious, concrete assurances that this won't be yet another thing that just falls by the wayside. I'm pretty sure he just told you that it has fallen by the wayside. Where did you get any idea otherwise?

[larrymc]

While I do think BP timer should be fixed - this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvqyMyZM1qY) puts things in perspective as far as SMN bloodpacts.

[Jerbob]

I'm pretty sure he just told you that it has fallen by the wayside. Where did you get any idea otherwise?


we won't be able to address this at the moment

The rep response implies that, while it's not possible now, it may be in the future. We all know that doesn't always pan out. Hence why I'm interested in some assurances that it will happen rather than might.

I'm also assuming that's the video of someone completely destroying a delve NM with Flaming Crush? It does sort of demonstrate how bizarre blood pacts can be. The fact remains that in any sane scenario, that's impossible, and that sort of behaviour is clearly unintended. It doesn't mean blood pacts don't need some help still.

[larrymc]

The rep response implies that, while it's not possible now, it may be in the future. We all know that doesn't always pan out. Hence why I'm interested in some assurances that it will happen rather than might.

I'm also assuming that's the video of someone completely destroying a delve NM with Flaming Crush? It does sort of demonstrate how bizarre blood pacts can be. The fact remains that in any sane scenario, that's impossible, and that sort of behaviour is clearly unintended. It doesn't mean blood pacts don't need some help still.

I have to disagree with you here. If you look at the video you will see that the SMN did not achieve those fantastic damage numbers solo - it required teamwork. Geo was using the proper buffs to boost the BP damage. Run was using Ignus + Gambit to boost BP damage. Healer was using Dia II on mob. The RUN & SMN were skillchaining together. You will notice the RUN turns away from the NM to avoid feeding it TP. This prevents the group from getting Paralyzed, or amnesia or any other detrimental effect (the subject of this thread). The SMN uses Cait sith at one point to reduce the TP of the NM to zero to ensure it does not get off a single TP move.

This is *exactly* what SE intended - people working together to boost the damage of favorable trait or ability in the group. This is where many NA groups fall short - everyone is focused on boosting their own damage only, spamming their own WS, no coordination or teamwork. The every man for himself "works" .. but is clearly not as elegant or efficient as the teamwork solution.

[Jerbob]

Oh, I certainly agree with you that teamwork is what we should all be striving for. Working together seamlessly is what makes this game so much fun at times. I was talking more about the specifics involved in that particular video - did the developers envisage SMN (or indeed any job capable of dealing damage) being able to do that sort of thing, even with all the support set up perfectly? I suspect not. They certainly want us to use all the tools at our disposal, but I can't believe that two-shotting mega bosses with four people is what SE expects us to do. It is an extremely impressive feat though - please don't mistake my skepticism for a lack of admiration!

[Crevox]

While I do think BP timer should be fixed - this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvqyMyZM1qY) puts things in perspective as far as SMN bloodpacts.

And that is literally the only blood pact that can achieve anything close to that, so don't believe otherwise.

Not to mention, extremely stacked conditions, with an ergon weapon, a mythic, the best summoner gear available, and more.

[bazookatooth]

And that is literally the only blood pact that can achieve anything close to that, so don't believe otherwise.

Not to mention, extremely stacked conditions, with an ergon weapon, a mythic, the best summoner gear available, and more.

Most (possibly all) jobs need even more support than that to put out that kind of damage. Standard DDs still need a bunch of songs/rolls/buffs to do that content. It's just different buffs.

I still think it's fine for summoner to do that. I'd even be okay with them having more ways to do it.