Future Job Point Categories

[Protey]

Thought I would post some ideas for future JP categories of what I would like to see for the jobs that mean the most to me in the hopes SE will implement them. Please add and discuss your own as well.

All jobs: stats+, HP/MP+ (I believe these should be tied to the job and not our gear, hate the swing in HP/MP every time I swap gear)
RDM: enhancing duration, new enfeeble spells, new enhancing spells, enhancing potency, enfeebling potency
BRD: song duration, elegy potency (since it looks like we're never going to get massacre elegy), etude potency, magic accuracy songs, Nightingale and Troubadour duration
MNK: kick attack rate, kick attack damage, probability for Perfect Counter to not be used up after an enemy causes it to go into effect, Formless Strikes/Mantra/Invigorate/Penance duration, Formless Strikes/Mantra/Invigorate/Penance potency
BLM: conserve MP effect, mana wall duration, dark based -ga/-ja spells

[Selindrile]

I'll play:

BLU: Enhancing Blue Magic Duration, Blue Magic Damage
WHM: Amnesna, Charmna (Can be on long timers), Elemental Barspells II, or just enhance current barspells with JP.
THF: Make TH7-13 Not pretty much negligible somehow.
SAM: Increase Chance of Third Eye not being lost after an attack is absorbed with Seigan up.
GEO: Entrust - Enhances the duration of the entrusted Indi spell, Regain.
RNG: Decoy Shot Duration

[Zeargi]

The HP/MP could even be like the gifts system we have now. the more JP you spend over the course of all the jobs, the more bonuses that could carry over to others. Very doable.

[Ulth]

This is more job gifts than points but for all jobs I think they should get +10 max category 1&2 merits.

THF: bully gives killer effects +1% per job point
NIN: Migiwari threshold reduced 0.5% per job point and maybe a gift that makes Migiwari work twice per casting
DRG: Percentage of hp for steady wing increased by 2% per job point
DRK: Absorb Potency +1% and duration +2 per job point

I also agree with making higher levels of TH more useful, but if they do that they should also make them more reasonable to obtain. I recently merited feint back to 5/5 but still can't manage to get to TH 13.

[Malithar]

GEO: Entrust - Enhances the duration of the entrusted Indi spell, Regain.

Both good additions. To add, I'd love to see:

JPs:
Geomancy Radius: +0.1 yalm per upgrade
Luopan Max HP: +2% HP per upgrade
Cardinal Chant: Increases effects of Cardinal Chant:
-+1 MAB per upgrade
-+1 MAcc per upgrade
-+2% MCrit per upgrade
-+0.5% MBurst Bonus per upgrade

Gifts:
-Ra IIIs
Geomancy Effects II +1

[Kohachi]

can we spend job points like merit points on any job also in the future pls?

[Protey]

can we spend job points like merit points on any job also in the future pls?

nope. SE already said JP are like leveling your job, they are not like merits.

[Shirai]

WHM: Charmna

To be fair, I doubt that we'll ever see this one.

As Charm turns the player into an enemy our ability to cast any healing magic on them is disabled with the exception of the Cure line as that can also be used as an offensive spell (on undead). (And cures fail to take effect on Charmed players anyway.)

[edit]
After reading some on BG Wiki I'm not too sure anymore about the following statement;
The Charm effect can already be removed by Dispel and Finale, were it not that we usually buff the crap out of our party members already so it's more efficient to just put them to sleep and wait for Charm to wear off on its own.

[Feary]

Campiagn weaponskills from jps.

[Rwolf]

I wouldn't say never, they did have plans previously to add Charm removal to WHM, even if it was through the old manifesto. It's not a huge leap to ask for bringing that consideration back.


Example Adjustments

Adding a new ability that reduces magic damage taken by party members.
Adding a new spell that removes Charm from a party member.

[2011 Job Manifesto] (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11485-FINAL-FANTASY-XI-Job-Adjustment%EF%BD%93-Manifesto)

[Garota]

I wouldn't say never, they did have plans previously to add Charm removal to WHM, even if it was through the old manifesto. It's not a huge leap to ask for bringing that consideration back.



[2011 Job Manifesto] (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11485-FINAL-FANTASY-XI-Job-Adjustment%EF%BD%93-Manifesto)

No need for a White Magic spell to remove charm as already proven by the Assault Mission: Lamia No.13. Already got Dispel, Finale, Dark Shot, Lunar Roar, Geist Wall, Blank Gaze, and recently added Eerie Eye.


Anyways, I'll play along and add my wishlist for SMN Job Point goodies.


Hybrid Spirit Pacts

This is a paragraph about stuff and junk why this is a good idea, blahblah blah, and because Cait Sith was such a disappointment. Also, the Blood Pact Delay -5 Gift from 100 Job Points was rather underwhelming compared to other jobs.

These Hybrid Spirits will only be castable by Lv99 SMN with the prerequisite of um, something which I have no clue of yet. None of the spirits will have a Favor linked to them, similar to current spirits. They will also have a perpetuation cost comparable to Celestial Avatars. The time required to cast a Hybrid Spirit will be equal to Avatars and not Spirits.

The Hybrid Spirits would behave similarly to the current Elemental Spirits, when engaged, they will cast offensive spells when they have been assaulted on a target or auto-assaulted due to aggro. The spells would be based on their element type and the tiers would scale up to V and they will also cast area of effect spells (-aja). Differing from typical Spirits, when passive, these will cast Enhancing Black and White Magic spells on themselves. Another distinguishing feature compared to typical Spirits, these hybrids will use Blood Pacts based on the actual hybrids' abilities. Hybrid Spirits will not have any Ward based Blood Pacts. Under the effect of Astral Flow, they will not gain additional Blood Pacts.


Baelfyr Spirit
Light/Fire
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130719103351/finalfantasy/images/thumb/7/71/Hybrid_2B_%28FFXI%29.png/150px-Hybrid_2B_%28FFXI%29.webp

When passive this spirit will work similarly to the current Light Spirit, due to it's tendency to cast spells randomly such as Protect V and Shell V, Curaga V, Haste II, and MAYBE even Regen V (Although I suppose Regen II should suffice). Those enhancing spells will have priority over the following spells:


Enlight, Enfire, Blaze Spikes, Stoneskin, Blink, Aquaveil

The following offensive spells will be cast at random when assaulted on an enemy target:


Banishga III, Dia III, Banish IV
Burn, Addle, Fire V, Firaga III, Firaja, Flare II

The two following Blood Pact: Rage will be exclusive to the Baelfyr Spirit only:


Blinding Fulgor - 15' Area Light damage centered on Spirit. Additional effect: Flash
Searing Tempest - 15' Area Fire damage centered on Spirit. Additional effect: 25 HP Burn



Byrgen Spirit
Dark/Earth
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130719103328/finalfantasy/images/thumb/d/d0/Hybrid_1B_%28FFXI%29.png/150px-Hybrid_1B_%28FFXI%29.webp

When passive this spirit will cast the following enhancing spells on itself:


Endrain, Enstone, Dread Spikes, Stoneskin

The following offensive spells will be cast at random when assaulted on an enemy target:


Sleepga II, Bio III, Stun, Dispel, Drain II, Aspir II, all Absorb spells
Rasp, Slow II, Break/Petrify, Stone V, Stonega III, Stoneja, Quake II

The two following Blood Pact: Rage will be exclusive to the Byrgen Spirit only:

Tenebral Crush - 15' Area Dark damage centered on Spirit. Additional effect: Knockback
Entomb - 15' Area Earth damage centered on Spirit. Additional effect: Petrify


Gefyrst Spirit
Water/Ice
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130719103433/finalfantasy/images/thumb/c/c4/Hybrid_4B_%28FFXI%29.png/150px-Hybrid_4B_%28FFXI%29.webp

When passive this spirit will cast the following enhancing spells on itself:


Enwater, Enblizzard, Aquaveil, Ice Spikes

The following offensive spells will be cast at random when assaulted on an enemy target:


Drown, Poison III, Water V, Waterga III, Waterja, Flood II
Frost, Paralyze II, Blizzard V, Blizzaga III, Blizzaja, Freeze II

The two following Blood Pact: Rage will be exclusive to the Gefyrst Spirit only:
'2
Spectral Floe - 15' Area Water damage centered on Spirit. Additional effect: Terror
Scouring Spate - 15' Area Ice damage centered on Spirit. Additional effect: Paralyze


Ungeweder Spirit
Wind/Thunder
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130719103411/finalfantasy/images/thumb/6/6e/Hybrid_3B_%28FFXI%29.png/150px-Hybrid_3B_%28FFXI%29.webp

When passive this spirit will cast the following enhancing spells on itself:


Enaero, Enthunder, Blink, Shock Spikes

The following offensive spells will be cast at random when assaulted on an enemy target:


Silence, Choke, Gravity II, Aero V, Aeroga III, Aeroja, Tornado II
Shock, Stun, Thunder V, Thundaga III, Thundaja, Burst II

The two following Blood Pact: Rage will be exclusive to the Ungeweder Spirit only:

Silent Storm - 15' Area Wind damage centered on Spirit. Additional effect: Gravity and Silence
Anvil Lightning - 15' Area Thunder damage centered on Spirit. Additional effect: Stun

The names of the the aforementioned abilities and the additional effects are based on observations from playing with Escalents in Yorcia Skirmish II. The enemy Hybrid Elementals in game use their special ability attacks when enough TP has been accumulated, the Hybrid Spirits will however be able to use the abilities through the use of Blood Pact Rage. The amount of damage dealt would be modified by TP and by the Summoner's equipment, for example Pet: MAB+, Blood Pact Damage+, and Avatar: TP Bonus. On the contrary, the duration of the additional effects will be based on Summoning Skill and Pet: Magic Accuracy+ on the Summoner's Equipment.

As previously mentioned, all spells would be cast randomly by the Spirit, summoning skill affect "the spirit's AI and will shorten time between spells casts" just like current spirits. All Blood Pacts will have the same MP cost of... 250? MP, except when under the effect of Apogee. All Blood Pacts will (not?) have skill chain properties.

[Martel]

No need for a White Magic spell to remove charm as already proven by the Assault Mission: Lamia No.13. Already got Dispel, Finale, Dark Shot, Lunar Roar, Geist Wall, Blank Gaze, and recently added Eerie Eye. Umm, that's a mechanic unique to that assault. Dispel will not remove charm outside the Lamia#13 assault.

So yes, we could use some charmna.

[Garota]

Umm, that's a mechanic unique to that assault. Dispel will not remove charm outside the Lamia#13 assault.

So yes, we could use some charmna.

Give me something to remove Amnesia instead, sleep the Charmed.

[Martel]

Having party members charmed and unable to contribute at all(and further more trying to kill everyone else), is an even bigger waste of time than being amnesia'd. At least an amnesia'd player can melee(or cast if they're a BLU or something.)

But while I argue that Charm is worse than Amnesia, I would also note that Amnesia is far more common. Thus an Amnesia removal spell would be the more useful of the two.

Thing is, that while Charmna was at least tentatively on the table at one point, I seem to recall SE specifically stating they wouldn't add an amnesia removal spell.

That being said, Just give us both SE. <,<

[Grekumah]

Greetings!

Thanks for all the job point categories and Gifts ideas! I'd like to comment on a couple of them based on information I received from the development team.



WHM: Amnesna, Charmna
Similar to encumbered and other ailments that are difficult to manage, we designed charm and amnesia so that the effect durations are short or you can out right dodge them. With that said, the dev. team has no plans to add spells that would remove these enfeebling effects.



Hybrid Spirit Pacts


Unfortunately, the development team does not have any plans to implement these kind of spirits for summoner.


Campiagn weaponskills from jps.
These special weapon skills are not available for every type of weapon, so unlocking these for non-campaign use would be unfair to players who do not use these particular weapons. As such we would like to keep these weapon skills as they are currently.

[Alhanelem]

These special weapon skills are not available for every type of weapon, so unlocking these for non-campaign use would be unfair to players who do not use these particular weapons. As such we would like to keep these weapon skills as they are currently. But one could argue that you may as well do it since it's *already* unfair because they exist, even if they don't exist for all content. They should have thought of that when they were originally created, hindsight being 20/20 and all that.

Honestly, as long as they're balanced, I don't think you'd see anyone complaining. Not every weapon necessarily has to have the same number of weapon skills.

[Ulth]

There are more npc weaponskills than just campaign ones. If you take into consideration the addition weaponskills from trusts all the weapon are represented. Even if you don't want to give out the ones for trusts the only jobs missing out are thf, sam, and dnc. Sam could get put on archery ones, thf on marksmanship, and dnc could get some sword or hand to hand ones.

[Muras]

These special weapon skills are not available for every type of weapon, so unlocking these for non-campaign use would be unfair to players who do not use these particular weapons. As such we would like to keep these weapon skills as they are currently.

To add more to what Alhanelem said, while there may not be a WS for every weapon, I think it works out that at least every job gets a WS (Although I cannot say for sure). After all, until RUN's Ergon weapon was added there wasn't a "Great Sword" mythic WS either, so weapon type isn't really the issue here. Even if every job didn't get a WS, you can't say it's not fair because RUN and GEO can't use any relic/empyrean WSs, and have no equivilants either. SE has already set precendence in either case, so that reasoning doesn't make sense.

In the end, even if not every job got a WS, and even if every weapon didn't get a WS, I can't see many people complaining since the WSs in campaign are already there (Or in the case of weapons without WSs, AREN'T there). With the recent adjustments to WSs, I bet they're not even all that powerful anymore in comparison. It's just something the players can have fun with, which is the entire point of playing a game, so why not?

[sweetidealism]

PUP JP category ideas: Automaton Damage Taken -%, Automaton Attributes +, Ranged attack/Spellcast(/Shield Bash?) delay -, Maintenance effect+ (give a status effect that makes the automaton more likely to resist the removed status effect?)

PUP gift ideas: Ability to equip a few more attachments, Critical hit rate +% (includes automaton), Martial Arts effect

Would love to have any of these. Please consider them!

[Zekander]

I would just like to add that dispelling charm is not exclusive to the assault Lamia No. 13. I know that it can at least be used to remove the charm effect from the move used by Corse type mobs. I haven't been able to test it vs BST 2-hour charm though because of one significant drawback, that being that charm has the lowest possible targeting priority for dispel. This means that if the target has any other buffs on them dispel will always target those first; protect, shell, barspells, even JA buffs like berserk or focus must all be dispelled before the charm effect will be targeted. Therefore it is not typically feasible to dispel charm off of another player. Though this could of course be tested, if one were so inclined, by having a player fight a charming mob completely unbuffed, though it might be difficult to find a mob strong enough so that their charm would land and yet weak enough so as to not kill an unbuffed player (or have whoever is healing them take hate and be charmed instead).

[Bluestar2kx]

Greetings!

These special weapon skills are not available for every type of weapon, so unlocking these for non-campaign use would be unfair to players who do not use these particular weapons. As such we would like to keep these weapon skills as they are currently.

That's not entirely a fair reasoning.

No job released after Zilart has access to any relic weapon skills (Or weapons themselves). So weapon skill numbers aren't even to begin with, so what is the harm in releasing weapon skills already available in the game to jobs who can use them? And even if weapon skill numbers were even, a lot of jobs can't access the full repertoire of that weapon class anyway. My Rdm doesn't get access to a half dozen club weapon skills and until this update, didn't have access to 4 sword weapon skills, they don't get access to any staff skills, even though they can use a few weapons from that class.

So how are things fair to begin with?
If you want to make them more fair, why not just unlock special/unique weapon skills trust NPC's use for their respective weapon class to players to balance out weapon categories?

[Martel]

I would just like to add that dispelling charm is not exclusive to the assault Lamia No. 13. I know that it can at least be used to remove the charm effect from the move used by Corse type mobs. I haven't been able to test it vs BST 2-hour charm though because of one significant drawback, that being that charm has the lowest possible targeting priority for dispel. This means that if the target has any other buffs on them dispel will always target those first; protect, shell, barspells, even JA buffs like berserk or focus must all be dispelled before the charm effect will be targeted. Therefore it is not typically feasible to dispel charm off of another player. Though this could of course be tested, if one were so inclined, by having a player fight a charming mob completely unbuffed, though it might be difficult to find a mob strong enough so that their charm would land and yet weak enough so as to not kill an unbuffed player (or have whoever is healing them take hate and be charmed instead).
Greetings!

Thanks for all the job point categories and Gifts ideas! I'd like to comment on a couple of them based on information I received from the development team.


Similar to encumbered and other ailments that are difficult to manage, we designed charm and amnesia so that the effect durations are short or you can out right dodge them. With that said, the dev. team has no plans to add spells that would remove these enfeebling effects.


Unfortunately, the development team does not have any plans to implement these kind of spirits for summoner.


These special weapon skills are not available for every type of weapon, so unlocking these for non-campaign use would be unfair to players who do not use these particular weapons. As such we would like to keep these weapon skills as they are currently.This... pretty strongly implies that you're wrong.

EDIT: In case it wasn't clear, the dev statement there would make no sense, if there was already a method for removing either of those status.

[Mnejing]

This... pretty strongly implies that you're wrong.

EDIT: In case it wasn't clear, the dev statement there would make no sense, if there was already a method for removing either of those status.
Does this count?

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/9/93/Ecphoria.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080312042659

[Martel]

Smartass. lol. But point taken.

I guess I should have said they wouldn't bother saying they won't add spells to remove said effect if dispel worked for that, because there would already be a spell for it. So they'd have just said, "You can already remove x with x, thus..."

But who cares about logic right? I'll go play with some corses/charm using NMs later and screenshot dispel having no effect on a charmed player with 0 buffs.

[Rwolf]

No need for a White Magic spell to remove charm as already proven by the Assault Mission: Lamia No.13. Already got Dispel, Finale, Dark Shot, Lunar Roar, Geist Wall, Blank Gaze, and recently added Eerie Eye.

Weak counterpoint, no offense. WHM has none of those abilities on main, even if they can get from support jobs. It would be akin to saying why add a Carbuncle Erase pact, when there was already Erase, Sacrifice, Esuna, Winds of Promyvion, etc.

Either way, I'm ok with them not adding it as they've shortened the duration as of late. I was only replying that it wasn't impossible, nor is any addition of an ability that another job already has.

[Martel]

So.

Here's your corse charm
http://i580.photobucket.com/albums/ss245/MartelRagnarok/img_20150401_095219.png (http://s580.photobucket.com/user/MartelRagnarok/media/img_20150401_095219.png.html)
No effect. The resist message for dispel says "resists the spell". The no effect message means that there's not a dispelable status on the target.

And then two other charm using NMs while I'm at it. Though neither is an actual BST mob.
http://i580.photobucket.com/albums/ss245/MartelRagnarok/img_20150401_090627.png (http://s580.photobucket.com/user/MartelRagnarok/media/img_20150401_090627.png.html)
http://i580.photobucket.com/albums/ss245/MartelRagnarok/img_20150401_091614.png (http://s580.photobucket.com/user/MartelRagnarok/media/img_20150401_091614.png.html)
No effect, no effect, no effect.

Again, dispel removing charm is a unique function of the Lamia no. 13 assault. It won't work anywhere else on any other charm.

[Stompa]

I'm still farming Jobpoints on my Warrior. Arranging those deckchairs on the Titanic! I will keep doing it until the end, because I love Jobpoints and I think it is the best system feature that SE have added in the last 6 years.

I'm still hoping that future SU gear, assuming there will be some, (SU3~5) will actually be JSE, since Jobpoints are a job-specific system. I got 200 Jobpoints on WAR, allowing me to equip SU gear on War only, but the SU gear is not for War only, it is for a plethora of jobs. I'm still hope that the final SU gear will be job-specific, and will have useful powerful job-specific bonuses that reflect the Herculean effort a person has put into getting 200+ Jobpoints on that particular job. And maybe make the final highest SU gear shiny and unique visually too, lol.
:cool:

[Ulth]

Well in the freshly picked they said there will be one last addition to the categories of job points. I'm guessing they will add 2 again for a total of 10 categories for each job. They also said the plan is to have the max being 20 now instead of 30. I wonder if they are going to change how much the categories give per point because of this. Some were very lackluster even if their max would have been 30.

[Dale]

They need to give Paladin some new job categories: as the ones we have now are a joke and the worst I have seen.

Sentinel duration/recast - Palisade duration/recast -Reprisal duration/recast - Accuracy - Attack - Double Attack - Defense - Magic Defense - Block/Parry/Evade - Chivalry recast - Cure Potency - Phalanx duration - Enlight I,II duration - Crusade duration... basically anything would be better than what we have.

[dasva]

That's not entirely a fair reasoning.

No job released after Zilart has access to any relic weapon skills (Or weapons themselves). So weapon skill numbers aren't even to begin with, so what is the harm in releasing weapon skills already available in the game to jobs who can use them?
I think his argument was going more for the fact it's only for a few weapon types and then he meandered to only some jobs can get it. From a some jobs can get it yeah it doesn't make sense. Post zilart jobs don't get relic. soa jobs don't get empyrean, relic or mythic ws. Granted they get ergon ws but it's not really the same as mythic (namely weaker than most AND doesn't get a wsdmg bonus with ergon weapons like mythic does with mythic weapons).

But a argument could be made if he had continued down the weapon type line. Like not being "fair" that some weapons have multiple types namely it being 2 swd and 1 staff lol. Especially with the whole lvl 3 property thing

[Selindrile]

Grekumah: Thank you for reviewing and answering but I'd like to point out the flaws in some of the reasoning behind these denials.


Similar to encumbered and other ailments that are difficult to manage, we designed charm and amnesia so that the effect durations are short or you can out right dodge them. With that said, the dev. team has no plans to add spells that would remove these enfeebling effects.

In several situations the Amnesia or Charm in question can last rather long amounts of time, compounded by the fact that the monsters tend to spam TP moves, reapplying it again and again afterwards.


These special weapon skills are not available for every type of weapon, so unlocking these for non-campaign use would be unfair to players who do not use these particular weapons. As such we would like to keep these weapon skills as they are currently.

As a Blue Mage I don't have access to Knights of the Round, Geomancers have access to neither Myrkr nor Dagan, etc etc, how is this any more unfair than these things? This seems like very inconsistent reasoning. There are no Ergon WS for most weapon types, etc, I see little harm in allowing them to be used, as long as they aren't clearly better than other weaponskills by an unreasonable amount.