Please SE we need the Linkshell "war and drama" back in the game

[Hercule]

Dear Community, Dear SE,

I would like to talk about this game from my point of view, and how to get the "Spicy taste" back inside!

First point: This game miss something since Abyssea. Nowadays we only have to fight versus NPC, you will tell me that it was always like that but that's false, because pre-abyssea the other(s) concurrent Guy / LS claimed the "Precious wanted NM" before you or your LS, you had to be faster/fortunate than this guy or their team.

Force pop NM "IS" the solution to remove all drama from this game ok, but this will never be fun and rewarding as fight versus a real human team to claim this precious NM.
You will (I will) rage if you miss this "claim" because the other guy/team was faster/fortunate than you, that's right, but you will be in trance the day you get it, and this is priceless!

Second point: Nowadays, everyone (Or at least all people that really want to get them) have best items of the game, Mythic, Relic, Empyrean etc...
Its like a "free distribution" same way for level up, it's like "Let's level all jobs to 99 in 1 week!"
Where is the personnal satisfaction in this? At least Thanks for Job Points this is a good point I guess

This game need to get back the "ULTRA HARDCORE GAMER" part (I would be happy to dream about a Weapon that I can't get, but see 2 or 3 guys get it on the server because they are really super hardcore players and don't talk me about these lol Afterglow useless R/E/M, long to get but with useless additional effect).
This game need also the "UNFAIR" part, because ok, some people will cry (I will cry) as usual, but this is how you put taste in a life...
Sad when you loose, but jubilant as never when you win!

Currently from my point of view FFXI is just Lifeless, Soulless... Not about the gameplay, he is good!, but about human interaction/feeling magnitude.

Thanks for you attention :)

PS: this thread is now officialy open to haters and sanctimonious people, welcome! :cool:

PS2: My OLD 2011 thread about how reintroducing world pop HNM in this game with less "drama", less "nolife win" and less "bots win".
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/18977-Suggestion-How-to-reintroduce-HNMLS-gameplay-in-FFXI-Lv99%E2%80%8F

[Camiie]

I played that game back in the day and it sucked. People treated each other like utter shit. There were personal attacks galore between opposing LSes and even between the members within them. The only respect paid to anyone was by members hoping to gain favor with leadership or by the handful of us who still managed to maintain our humanity through it all.

There was no actual joy in claiming or in victory. There was only relief that the pain was over for now and schadenfreude in the competition's failure. Not that they actually failed mind you. It's just that their 3rd party claim tool was beaten that night by our 3rd party claim tool. So much for a test of skill. It's more a test of latency, PC specs, and pure dumb luck.

The fake joy in getting a rare drop was the same. That was simply relief as well. Of course every rare drop I ever got was met with resentment by someone else. It's impossible to remember a time back then when I got something and someone else in the group wasn't disappointed or upset at least a little. I'd actually end up feeling guilty for getting something I had earned.

I look back and think, "What part of that was fun?" I can only surmise that I was so desperate for a social gaming experience that I was willing to put up with a lot of nonsense. I also didn't really understand what an online gaming experience truly entailed. Even after all the leveling and the jerkassery involved with that I still didn't understand the true dark side of online gaming. I never imagined things could get that personal, that emotional, and that miserable. When I bought this game I was hoping for a truly cooperative experience. Silly me for thinking that was possible. If I knew then what I know now I never would have even bought FFXI at all.

So, I'm sorry. I can't support you in your goal to bring back the old days of FFXI. In the words of Yuna, "I don't like your plan. It sucks."

[Zarchery]

So you want to reintroduce a game where you spend roughly 3 hours camping an NM to, more likely than not, get absolutely nothing? And you need to convince 17 other people to go through this with you?

I'm pretty sure that almost nobody actually enjoyed this. Most sane people avoided it. Those who did, only did so because there was nothing else to do. Now that there are plenty of other things to do, even if you introduced such sadistic content, nobody would actually want to do this.

I find it bizarre that your entire request is "please make this game more unpleasant, and increase the anger and hatred among members of the community". This is not only one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard, it's also just plain mean.

[Afania]

I played that game back in the day and it sucked. People treated each other like utter shit. There were personal attacks galore between opposing LSes and even between the members within them. The only respect paid to anyone was by members hoping to gain favor with leadership or by the handful of us who still managed to maintain our humanity through it all.

There was no actual joy in claiming or in victory. There was only relief that the pain was over for now and schadenfreude in the competition's failure. Not that they actually failed mind you. It's just that their 3rd party claim tool was beaten that night by our 3rd party claim tool. So much for a test of skill. It's more a test of latency, PC specs, and pure dumb luck.

The fake joy in getting a rare drop was the same. That was simply relief as well. Of course every rare drop I ever got was met with resentment by someone else. It's impossible to remember a time back then when I got something and someone else in the group wasn't disappointed or upset at least a little. I'd actually end up feeling guilty for getting something I had earned.

I look back and think, "What part of that was fun?" I can only surmise that I was so desperate for a social gaming experience that I was willing to put up with a lot of nonsense. I also didn't really understand what an online gaming experience truly entailed. Even after all the leveling and the jerkassery involved with that I still didn't understand the true dark side of online gaming. I never imagined things could get that personal, that emotional, and that miserable. When I bought this game I was hoping for a truly cooperative experience. Silly me for thinking that was possible. If I knew then what I know now I never would have even bought FFXI at all.

So, I'm sorry. I can't support you in your goal to bring back the old days of FFXI. In the words of Yuna, "I don't like your plan. It sucks."

Personal opinion, that's all I can say. If you want to view everything negative, then it can get as negative as you want it to be, and vice versa. I've experienced LS/friend drama no matter which expansion. I've experienced drama in 75 era, Abyssea and SoA.

However, I've also had a more meaningful social experience in 75 era, not so much in SoA era. Some friends I've met in 75 era still chat with me on skype often, even though we don't really play FFXI anymore.

I don't know how you ended up only meeting ppl with bad attitude, but that wasn't my experience. There are ppl with bad attitude, and there are connections I've made that could never happen in another online game.

IMO, 75 era FFXI is the most memorable video game experience I have in my life, bar none. I've played a lot of MMO titles and hundreds and hundreds of game on different platforms, so it's not exactly easy to made it to #1 on the list.

[Selindrile]

I avoided all of endgame like the plague back in those days, and the social aspects of that sort of gaming were a nightmare, with all the personalities that everyone hated taking advantage of others to get ahead... I don't want anything to do with it. I simply exped back in those days when the endgame revolved around that sort of activity, I probably wouldn't unsub if they did add it, but I'd be very annoyed and would definitely not participate in those sorts of things again, ugh.

[Hercule]

I hope SE will make this lv 75 Server to all players that miss these old days (as me)

[Camiie]

So you want to reintroduce a game where you spend roughly 3 hours camping an NM to, more likely than not, get absolutely nothing? And you need to convince 17 other people to go through this with you?

What's scary is that people used to use the dead time between spawn windows as a selling point of the game! They were actually happy that the game was giving them time to watch TV or play a different game in the meantime. How absolutely absurd is that? I said it then and I'll say it again now; If the best part of a game is doing something other than playing it, then that game has a serious problem.

Now I'm sure someone will come along shortly and perform a gold medal level mental gymnastics routine attempting to justify that as excellent game design, but I'm never going to buy it. I mean if that aspect of the game is so wonderful then sitting around town LFP for hours on end must have been positively orgasmic.

[Zarchery]

Ok I've been thinking about a compromise, a way to accommodate Hercule's sadistic and mean spirited request.

1) SE introduces voluntary level cap. You can set your level to 75 or whatever you want, without a level sync designee.
2) Hercule and 17 other masochists buy a Honey Wine (or Sweet Tea if you feel like it) to pop Fafnir or Nidhogg.
3) All of these people wait around in Dragon's Aery for 3 hours.
4) After the 3 hours are up, alliance leader uses /random. If he rolls within a set range, let's say 0-250, he uses the Honey Wine/Sweet Tea to pop the dragon.
5) If he rolls outside of this range, everyone warps and goes home.
6) Repeat the same process 21 hours later. Do this regardless of the time. If it's 2:30 AM for some of the players, too bad. They better set an alarm and live with less sleep that day.

This all sounds so fun! Let's all agree on a server to migrate to, and let's get SE on board with the voluntary level cap option. It'll be even more fun when something really good drops like Ridill or Earthen Abjuration drops so that 9 people can be furiously angry at the 10th guy who won the lot on it.

[PlumbGame]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/45558-New-Servers

Like this thread, bump it. Get SE's attention!

[FrankReynolds]

What's scary is that people used to use the dead time between spawn windows as a selling point of the game! They were actually happy that the game was giving them time to watch TV or play a different game in the meantime. How absolutely absurd is that? I said it then and I'll say it again now; If the best part of a game is doing something other than playing it, then that game has a serious problem.

Now I'm sure someone will come along shortly and perform a gold medal level mental gymnastics routine attempting to justify that as excellent game design, but I'm never going to buy it. I mean if that aspect of the game is so wonderful then sitting around town LFP for hours on end must have been positively orgasmic.

The best part is that that experience can be easily recreated. I'm doing it right now. I just went out to where KA spawns on beast master and put my flag up. I'm 12 episodes deep into "Sea Lab 2021" and not a single tell. It's just like 2003 again.

[PlumbGame]

What's scary is that people used to use the dead time between spawn windows as a selling point of the game! They were actually happy that the game was giving them time to watch TV or play a different game in the meantime. How absolutely absurd is that? I said it then and I'll say it again now; If the best part of a game is doing something other than playing it, then that game has a serious problem.

Now I'm sure someone will come along shortly and perform a gold medal level mental gymnastics routine attempting to justify that as excellent game design, but I'm never going to buy it. I mean if that aspect of the game is so wonderful then sitting around town LFP for hours on end must have been positively orgasmic.

How is that absurd?

I don't know if you are currently actually playing the game, these comments aren't specifically directed towards the quoted post, but in general your attitude towards the 75 days whenever you post about it, but the game is more grindy now than it was then. 3 hours of camping an HNM where you only had to look at your screen every 30mins? Hard stuff. Dyna every 3 days, better yet, dyna every 3days that you could half-ass and still come out with decent numbers. Limbus every 3 days? Sky rotations every other days or on off times because of rotations with other LS? Sea same boat? Yeah, game was so hard back then, compared to the million daily things players do every day now. I think your ignorance of the 75 days really shines whenever you post about it. I agree that it wasn't fun to compete for HNMs, mostly because the level of competition against bots, but you are very misinformed as if the game was so much harder to do anything, or better yet, "nobody has time for that" type comments. There was a significant amount of things you could also do while lfp also. Just because you utilized your afking while lfp to the max, doesn't mean that is how every one played. I level drg to 75 during ToAU and never experienced these drastic amount of LFP times people like you try to portray. Did you sit in the deepest cave on the planet with flag off /anon LFP?

To your last remark, obviously the game was more wonderful, or the player base wouldn't of declined, with implementations of what YOU feel is the best parts of the game now.

[Camiie]

How is that absurd?

Games are meant to be played. Do you really think it makes sense that the best part of a game is time spent not playing it? Imagine seeing that line in a review. "The best part of FFXI's endgame is time spent not playing it."


I don't know if you are currently actually playing the game, these comments aren't specifically directed towards the quoted post, but in general your attitude towards the 75 days whenever you post about it, but the game is more grindy now than it was then. 3 hours of camping an HNM where you only had to look at your screen every 30mins? Hard stuff.

I actually noted in my post that it wasn't hard. Endgame back then consisted of waiting around and whose claim bot beat the other teams' claim bots. So yeah you're right there was nothing hard about it. The fights themselves were no challenge unless someone on your team made an egregious mistake or another LS was trying to MPK you.


Dyna every 3 days, better yet, dyna every 3days that you could half-ass and still come out with decent numbers. Limbus every 3 days? Sky rotations every other days or on off times because of rotations with other LS? Sea same boat? Yeah, game was so hard back then, compared to the million daily things players do every day now. I think your ignorance of the 75 days really shines whenever you post about it.

MY ignorance? MINE? I was there day in and day out. I did all those things time and time again. I camped when we camped. I did events every night we didn't. Don't start some BS attack on me just because I disagree with your idea of what's fun. And AGAIN I never said it was hard. I said it SUCKED. Try reading what's actually on the screen next time.


I agree that it wasn't fun to compete for HNMs, mostly because the level of competition against bots, but you are very misinformed as if the game was so much harder to do anything, or better yet, "nobody has time for that" type comments. There was a significant amount of things you could also do while lfp also. Just because you utilized your afking while lfp to the max, doesn't mean that is how every one played. I level drg to 75 during ToAU and never experienced these drastic amount of LFP times people like you try to portray.

You mean you leveled DRG when colibri camp was big? No wonder you didn't suffer then. And you think I'M the one with limited experience who doesn't know what she's talking about? smh right now.


Did you sit in the deepest cave on the planet with flag off /anon LFP?

Depending on the level and era I would either flag up in the popular zone, or in Jeuno. By the time ToAU came out I didn't really need to flag up anymore. Since you apparently started during ToAU and somehow skipped all the levels before 55 you missed all the fun of leveling during the pre-ToAU days. Sorry, but that's all I can gather from what you've told me of your leveling experience.


To your last remark, obviously the game was more wonderful, or the player base wouldn't of declined, with implementations of what YOU feel is the best parts of the game now.

You might want to study the differences between causation and correlation before you make such a claim.

[Clou777]

I agree with this completely. Infact this week my best friend in FFXI tossed her RMEs, tossed 25 sets of reforged+1, tossed loads of HQ ilvl gear from BCNMs, and took her character out naked bloodwarping all 20 of her lvl99 jobs down to level 75. She intends to play old areas on 75 jobs, and finish all her crafts to 100. Obviously that isn't going to appeal to everyone, but it shows that some people really don't like the lvl 76+ game at all.

So I do totally miss 75 era too, and I really enjoyed fighting some of the less popular NMs back then, mobs that didn't have crowds of people spamming tools to get claim etc. I don't miss LS wars or camping the high-demand NMs, that just brought out the ugliness in people. Square are of course Japanese, and a lot of people have said over the years that FFXI was built around the Japanese cultural norm that "teamwork" is the the most important quality one can aspire to, and that is why FFXI never really had a proper PVP, because the idea is to work together and not fight each other. It seems that SE may have regretted the division and bitterness that those Linkshell NM-camps caused, and wanted to steer the game to an entirely teamwork-based and more amiable atmosphere for everyone.

does your friend realize they could have just started another character?

[PlumbGame]

Games are meant to be played. Do you really think it makes sense that the best part of a game is time spent not playing it? Imagine seeing that line in a review. "The best part of FFXI's endgame is time spent not playing it."



I actually noted in my post that it wasn't hard. Endgame back then consisted of waiting around and whose claim bot beat the other teams' claim bots. So yeah you're right there was nothing hard about it. The fights themselves were no challenge unless someone on your team made an egregious mistake or another LS was trying to MPK you.



MY ignorance? MINE? I was there day in and day out. I did all those things time and time again. I camped when we camped. I did events every night we didn't. Don't start some BS attack on me just because I disagree with your idea of what's fun. And AGAIN I never said it was hard. I said it SUCKED. Try reading what's actually on the screen next time.



You mean you leveled DRG when colibri camp was big? No wonder you didn't suffer then. And you think I'M the one with limited experience who doesn't know what she's talking about? smh right now.



Depending on the level and era I would either flag up in the popular zone, or in Jeuno. By the time ToAU came out I didn't really need to flag up anymore. Since you apparently started during ToAU and somehow skipped all the levels before 55 you missed all the fun of leveling during the pre-ToAU days. Sorry, but that's all I can gather from what you've told me of your leveling experience.



You might want to study the differences between causation and correlation before you make such a claim.

Yes your ignorance, did I stutter in my post? Oh, you mean the colibri camps that you couldn't even do till some odd 50s then again once you were 75? (I can't remember the exact lvl, but you did not lvl off colibri from 1 - 75 lmao). I really hope those who aren't really experienced with the 75 days don't listen to people like this. So misleading.

There was several ways to combat sitting in town lfp, this person blatantly failed at it, well, the implication from their comments. they failed at just about everything.

[FrankReynolds]

Yes your ignorance, did I stutter in my post? Oh, you mean the colibri camps that you couldn't even do till some odd 50s then again once you were 75? (I can't remember the exact lvl, but you did not lvl off colibri from 1 - 75 lmao). I really hope those who aren't really experienced with the 75 days don't listen to people like this. So misleading.

There was several ways to combat sitting in town lfp, this person blatantly failed at it, well, the implication from their comments. they failed at just about everything.

That sounded a lot like you ran out of logical arguments and just decided to start throwing insults. When all else fails, just start telling people that they suck for no reason.

[Selindrile]

Oh, you mean the colibri camps that you couldn't even do till some odd 50s then again once you were 75? (I can't remember the exact lvl, but you did not lvl off colibri from 1 - 75 lmao).

54-58 Wajaom Woodlands (Lesser Colibri)
54-60 Bhaflau Thickets (Lesser Colibri)
55-60 Caedarva Mire (Marsh Murre)
59-62 Wajaom Woodlands (Puk)
61-64 Bibiki Bay (Tragopan)
67-75 Caedarva Mire (Heraldic Imp/Spongilla Fly)
73-75 Bhaflau Thickets (Colibri)

Do you seriously not remember that damn near everything we exped on at that time was weak to piercing and it was WAY easier to level DRG at that point than previously especially after 2H rebalance?!??

[Afania]

What's scary is that people used to use the dead time between spawn windows as a selling point of the game! They were actually happy that the game was giving them time to watch TV or play a different game in the meantime. How absolutely absurd is that? I said it then and I'll say it again now; If the best part of a game is doing something other than playing it, then that game has a serious problem.



Again this is just the personal opinion toward playing video games....I've played many, many games that I do focus on playing/button mash 100% of time, IMO it's not superior nor worse than camping NM in FFXI. They're just different.

Games that needs to be played 100% of time can be fun in a very short amount of time, and it's certainly entertaining. But it also doesn't last very long, and it can be very tiring after 1~2hr of playing(for me at least). If I play games that needs 100% of focus, I usually can't play for more than 1hr, that's just me.

On the other hand, camping NM creates a lot more relaxed atmosphere as long as it's not popping soon. I can talk to other players for hrs, which is something I usually won't bother in a more incensed MMO titles. I can alt tab and watch video....AND still feel like I'm playing a video game. I just happened to enjoy playing video games and watch video without using 100% of my focus sometimes. In the end it's not as tiring and I can spend more time on gaming.

Again, everyone has their own opinion toward gaming, but saying the game suck just because you don't like it(and somehow looked down on other's opinion about it) doesn't make your opinion better than others.

There are many, many titles on the market that requires 100% of focus or even button mash the whole time, if I want to play games like this I can always just go...play them?

[Alhanelem]

Please SE we need the Linkshell "war and drama" back in the game

No, sorry, we don't. The only way to enjoy this is to be the one causing it. And that's an asinine thing to do.

If you want a competitive game, go play a moba. Tons and tons and tons of drama there for your enjoyment.


I'm pretty sure that almost nobody actually enjoyed this. Most sane people avoided it.What people enjoyed was making sure other people didn't have the chance to do what you described by hacking and cheating. These same people will tell you that getting a rare drop isn't exciting unless you had to step on 50 other people to get the chance to obtain it.

[PlumbGame]

No, sorry, we don't. The only way to enjoy this is to be the one causing it. And that's an asinine thing to do.

If you want a competitive game, go play a moba. Tons and tons and tons of drama there for your enjoyment.

What people enjoyed was making sure other people didn't have the chance to do what you described by hacking and cheating. These same people will tell you that getting a rare drop isn't exciting unless you had to step on 50 other people to get the chance to obtain it.

Pretty much the bolded part. Power Gamers I think they call them. It's also another support for why a new server like I mentioned before would probably be successful. Though sad.

[PlumbGame]

54-58 Wajaom Woodlands (Lesser Colibri)
54-60 Bhaflau Thickets (Lesser Colibri)
55-60 Caedarva Mire (Marsh Murre)
59-62 Wajaom Woodlands (Puk)
61-64 Bibiki Bay (Tragopan)
67-75 Caedarva Mire (Heraldic Imp/Spongilla Fly)
73-75 Bhaflau Thickets (Colibri)

Do you seriously not remember that damn near everything we exped on at that time was weak to piercing and it was WAY easier to level DRG at that point than previously especially after 2H rebalance?!??

Do you seriously think people just leveled up at those camps? Even more so my comment mention 1-75? Colibri 1-75? Thanks for supporting what I said.


That sounded a lot like you ran out of logical arguments and just decided to start throwing insults. When all else fails, just start telling people that they suck for no reason.

Don't construe facts of the implications someone said into insults. The person blatantly implies they were bad.

[Selindrile]

Do you seriously think people just leveled up at those camps? Even more so my comment mention 1-75? Colibri 1-75? Thanks for supporting what I said.

I seriously remember very well (on Unicorn at least) that from around 55-75, well over 70% of my exp parties were on fliers from that point on, and especially after the 2H rebalance, Drg got FAR more popular.

Pre-55, yes there were still a mix of camps, at least until WotG came out, and it was all Colibri and Ladybugs from there on out starting at Lv28ish, and level sync, we overwhelmingly exped on peircing weak mobs from Aht Urghan forward, before that, it was very different. Though bats and flies and worms were always a favorite exp target when they could be chosen as well, but pre-toau there was definitely more variety in target choice.

[FrankReynolds]

Do you seriously think people just leveled up at those camps? Even more so my comment mention 1-75? Colibri 1-75? Thanks for supporting what I said.

During the time period in question? Yes. For the most part, people just leveled up on flying things. If they didn't, they were at a slower camp. And let's not forget that grinding merits was a thing back then too. You didn't just hit 75 and call it a day. You killed piercing weak mobs pretty much indefinitely once you hit 75.




Don't construe facts of the implications someone said into insults. The person blatantly implies they were bad.

That first sentence didn't really make any sense, but whatever. That person in no way implied that they were bad. At no point did they say anything that implied any skill level whatsoever. There were no references to performance good or bad in any of their statements.

[Dazusu]

I would love to see the addition of 21-24 hour HNM, 3-5 day HNM, and more multi-zone roaming HNM (Ixion, Sandworm).

However, were this to happen, I would want assurance from the development team that content in its current form would continue to come at the same rate and not suffer as a consequence.

There's absolutely no reason that 6 man Delve (and other more recent end-game) can't co-exist with HNMs; then people that don't want to touch HNMs don't have to. They never have to see them.

I also miss timed/event content designed for 18 players (i.e. Delve, Einherjar), but I fear that the population has shrunk so far now that gathering 18 people might be almost impossible.

I've said this all along, SE should be catering to people who want to play (and participate in end-game) casually (or without the stress of dealing with narcissistic end-game a-holes), and they should also cater to those who want to invest a lot more time doing monotonous things. The problem seems to be the vocal minority (of either group) crying on the forums about how "I don't like what the other group likes, so therefor it shouldn't be in the game ever - and if anyone even dares mention it, I'll have a tantrum stating my opinion on why I don't like it as if its fact". So much of that going on in this thread.

Take me back to CoP, I want to go EXP on Catoblepas in Bibiki Bay and magic burst Thundaga III. :D

[FrankReynolds]

I would love to see the addition of 21-24 hour HNM, 3-5 day HNM, and more multi-zone roaming HNM (Ixion, Sandworm).

However, were this to happen, I would want assurance from the development team that content in its current form would continue to come at the same rate and not suffer as a consequence.

There's absolutely no reason that 6 man Delve (and other more recent end-game) can't co-exist with HNMs; then people that don't want to touch HNMs don't have to. They never have to see them.

I also miss timed/event content designed for 18 players (i.e. Delve, Einherjar), but I fear that the population has shrunk so far now that gathering 18 people might be almost impossible.

I've said this all along, SE should be catering to people who want to play (and participate in end-game) casually (or without the stress of dealing with narcissistic end-game a-holes), and they should also cater to those who want to invest a lot more time doing monotonous things. The problem seems to be the vocal minority (of either group) crying on the forums about how "I don't like what the other group likes, so therefor it shouldn't be in the game ever - and if anyone even dares mention it, I'll have a tantrum stating my opinion on why I don't like it as if its fact". So much of that going on in this thread.

Take me back to CoP, I want to go EXP on Catoblepas in Bibiki Bay and magic burst Thundaga III. :D

I think a lot of the reason people get so pissed when people mention these things is that SE never ever implements them in a way that will please both crowds. People feel like they have to rail against any ideas involving timed spawn HNMs because if SE actually puts them back in the game, they are bound to do it horribly wrong at the expense of the people who don't want to do them.

And I keep saying this every time some nostalgia thread gets made, but here goes again. None of the old content was removed from the game. It's all still there. But, People aren't really yearning for the old content. They are yearning for everyone else to be forced to do it with them.

[PlumbGame]

During the time period in question? Yes. For the most part, people just leveled up on flying things. If they didn't, they were at a slower camp. And let's not forget that grinding merits was a thing back then too. You didn't just hit 75 and call it a day. You killed piercing weak mobs pretty much indefinitely once you hit 75.





That first sentence didn't really make any sense, but whatever. That person in no way implied that they were bad. At no point did they say anything that implied any skill level whatsoever. There were no references to performance good or bad in any of their statements.


I don't know what game you were playing, but this isn't Bird Fantasy 11. People did not level up to 75 from level 1 off just birds.

con·strue
kənˈstro͞o/
verb
verb: construe; 3rd person present: construes; past tense: construed; past participle: construed; gerund or present participle: construing

interpret (a word or action) in a particular way.
"his words could hardly be construed as an apology"
synonyms: interpret, understand, read, see, take, take to mean, regard
"I'm not sure you've properly construed what I just said"
dated
analyze the syntax of (a text, sentence, or word).
"both verbs can be construed with either infinitive"
dated
translate (a passage or author) word for word, typically aloud.



im·plied
imˈplīd/
adjective
adjective: implied

suggested but not directly expressed; implicit.
"she was aware of his implied criticism"

im·ply
imˈplī/
verb
past tense: implied; past participle: implied

strongly suggest the truth or existence of (something not expressly stated).
"the salesmen who uses jargon to imply his superior knowledge"
synonyms: insinuate, suggest, hint (at), intimate, say indirectly, indicate, give someone to understand, convey the impression, signal
"are you implying he is mad?"
(of a fact or occurrence) suggest (something) as a logical consequence.
"the forecasted traffic increase implied more roads and more air pollution"
synonyms: involve, entail; More

[PlumbGame]

Take me back to CoP, I want to go EXP on Catoblepas in Bibiki Bay and magic burst Thundaga III. :D

This didn't happen. People only killed birds.

[detlef]

This didn't happen. People only killed birds.Pre-ToAU people XPed on Catoblepas in Bibiki Bay. Once ToAU came around then yes you are correct, it was nothing but birds.

[Camiie]

This didn't happen. People only killed birds.

Seriously, this all started because you denied that people ever had to put their flags up wait for hours for XP. You're the one who's ignorant, and I mean that not as an insult but simply the truth, if you are unaware of the game's past where that was indeed commonplace. I started around the time COP was released, and that's how it was then and long before. If you had played DRG then instead of during ToAU, you would understand.

Anyone who tried to level a DD job in that era will tell you what a chore it was. And no it wasn't hard, I want to go ahead and say that before you start reading that in to what I'm typing, but it was very tedious. There was no effective way to solo back then unless you were a BST or /BST and that was by no means fast XP. So yeah if you wanted XP you waited for a group either hoping one would pick you or trying to piece one together from who was available. Yeah you could craft, but that didn't net you XP. You were still waiting. Some nights you just were unable to make any progress with XP at all. It's great that you never had to deal with that, but those who came before you like myself did. Trust me, better players than you or I could ever hope to be suffered just as much. Waiting for XP wasn't a sign of being bad. It was a sign of playing FFXI.

[PlumbGame]

Seriously, this all started because you denied that people ever had to put their flags up wait for hours for XP. You're the one who's ignorant, and I mean that not as an insult but simply the truth, if you are unaware of the game's past where that was indeed commonplace. I started around the time COP was released, and that's how it was then and long before. If you had played DRG then instead of during ToAU, you would understand.

Anyone who tried to level a DD job in that era will tell you what a chore it was. And no it wasn't hard, I want to go ahead and say that before you start reading that in to what I'm typing, but it was very tedious. There was no effective way to solo back then unless you were a BST or /BST and that was by no means fast XP. So yeah if you wanted XP you waited for a group either hoping one would pick you or trying to piece one together from who was available. Yeah you could craft, but that didn't net you XP. You were still waiting. Some nights you just were unable to make any progress with XP at all. It's great that you never had to deal with that, but those who came before you like myself did. Trust me, better players than you or I could ever hope to be suffered just as much. Waiting for XP wasn't a sign of being bad. It was a sign of playing FFXI.

I have never denied people putting their flag up for hours. I denied the far fetched tale that you sat daily LFP walking up hill both ways in the snow every day for 8 hours BS that people like you spew. Tt would practically of been impossible for you to hit 75, or some odd years by the way you played, which would then make YOU the exception, because the game was full of hundreds of thousands of players that hit 75 no problem and didn't have the issues lvling that you portray.

You came before me? Been playing since the NA launch and have never experienced this kind of garbage, and if you had access to JP versions somehow gratz, still doesn't change anything.

[FrankReynolds]

I don't know what game you were playing, but this isn't Bird Fantasy 11. People did not level up to 75 from level 1 off just birds.

con·strue
kənˈstro͞o/
verb
verb: construe; 3rd person present: construes; past tense: construed; past participle: construed; gerund or present participle: construing

interpret (a word or action) in a particular way.
"his words could hardly be construed as an apology"
synonyms: interpret, understand, read, see, take, take to mean, regard
"I'm not sure you've properly construed what I just said"
dated
analyze the syntax of (a text, sentence, or word).
"both verbs can be construed with either infinitive"
dated
translate (a passage or author) word for word, typically aloud.



im·plied
imˈplīd/
adjective
adjective: implied

suggested but not directly expressed; implicit.
"she was aware of his implied criticism"

im·ply
imˈplī/
verb
past tense: implied; past participle: implied

strongly suggest the truth or existence of (something not expressly stated).
"the salesmen who uses jargon to imply his superior knowledge"
synonyms: insinuate, suggest, hint (at), intimate, say indirectly, indicate, give someone to understand, convey the impression, signal
"are you implying he is mad?"
(of a fact or occurrence) suggest (something) as a logical consequence.
"the forecasted traffic increase implied more roads and more air pollution"
synonyms: involve, entail; More

Perhaps you could show me where the person implied that they sucked instead of copy / pasting words that you don't understand off the internet...


I have never denied people putting their flag up for hours. I denied the far fetched tale that you sat daily LFP walking up hill both ways in the snow every day for 8 hours BS that people like you spew. Tt would practically of been impossible for you to hit 75, or some odd years by the way you played, which would then make YOU the exception, because the game was full of hundreds of thousands of players that hit 75 no problem and didn't have the issues lvling that you portray.

You came before me? Been playing since the NA launch and have never experienced this kind of garbage, and if you had access to JP versions somehow gratz, still doesn't change anything.

Literally millions of posts and comments on hundreds of websites regarding this game beg to differ.

maybe you should take a look at this (http://www.playonline.com/ff11eu/guide/development/census/08/02main_job.html).

[Shirai]

Pre-ToAU people XPed on Catoblepas in Bibiki Bay. Once ToAU came around then yes you are correct, it was nothing but birds.

Moongate pass!

Bloody youngsters.

[detlef]

Moongate pass!

Bloody youngsters.I hated that camp.

[PlumbGame]

Perhaps you could show me where the person implied that they sucked instead of copy / pasting words that you don't understand off the internet...



Literally millions of posts and comments on hundreds of websites regarding this game beg to differ.

maybe you should take a look at this (http://www.playonline.com/ff11eu/guide/development/census/08/02main_job.html).


maybe you should take a look at things like the 7th census and don't blindly post stuff and you might better understand the job levels sections rather than thinking it supports your cause. The job levels section you linked doesn't directly relate to the pop of people with 75 jobs while it also does at the same time. When it did a census on a character, it didn't just calculate it's highest job. For example, 1 person could have 1 75 job, and the other 19 could fall in other categories. For example, ALL 500k users that they reported could of theoretically had a lvl 75 job or multiple 75 jobs.

Also, what million of posts are you referring to? Inb4 more links of irrelevance and random threads that supposedly constitute a majority view. So glad threads like this never pop up anywhere.... oh wait.

And wut @ your first comment?

[Shirai]

Both Bibiki Bay and Ro'Maeve had their up and downsides.
I must say I liked Moon better than Bibiki bay as the only real issue I had there was people being too cheap to bring their own oils and powders.

Which was one way to seperate the morons.

[Alhanelem]

Pre-ToAU people XPed on Catoblepas in Bibiki Bay. Once ToAU came around then yes you are correct, it was nothing but birds.
I have done catobelpas before but only like once. I don't think this was the big most popular camp- bibiki bay didn't even support that many parties.

[Dazusu]

It's all still there. But, People aren't really yearning for the old content. They are yearning for everyone else to be forced to do it with them.

Some of it is still there, and some of it has had its mechanics changed at the core. Some people are still yearning for the old content. The issue with the existing old content is that it is no longer relevant or a challenge. It was designed for level 75, we are now level 99. Fighting Tiamat at level 99 does not provide the same thrill or experience that it did at level 75. Nor are the rewards appropriate. There has been talk of "Well, sync yourself to 75" - that really wouldn't be any fun or give a sense of achievement or progression. The content is tired and old; and just like everyone else - the people who love that type of content want something new.

As for needing someone to do it with, I speak from personal experience that the majority of my Linkshell quit the game because of a lack of group content. We exhausted Legion and Delve 1 when it was first released - most of us stopped playing after the 500th Tojil kill and waiting for Delve 2. Had SE kept up with that end of the community, there might still be more people playing now.

My key point in this argument is, I want to see this type of content but only in addition to the more relaxed low man content that also exists. No one should be forced to participate in this type of content if they don't wish; so rewards should match (there-abouts) what exists from other end-game type content. I don't understand any player argument as to why only one type of content should exclusively exist.

Regardless though, this is a tired discussion that's been had so many times on these forums - and I think we can all agree that even if the entire player base was in favor of this type of content - it still wouldn't be forthcoming.

[Pixela]

Seriously, this all started because you denied that people ever had to put their flags up wait for hours for XP. You're the one who's ignorant, and I mean that not as an insult but simply the truth, if you are unaware of the game's past where that was indeed commonplace. I started around the time COP was released, and that's how it was then and long before. If you had played DRG then instead of during ToAU, you would understand.

Anyone who tried to level a DD job in that era will tell you what a chore it was. And no it wasn't hard, I want to go ahead and say that before you start reading that in to what I'm typing, but it was very tedious. There was no effective way to solo back then unless you were a BST or /BST and that was by no means fast XP. So yeah if you wanted XP you waited for a group either hoping one would pick you or trying to piece one together from who was available. Yeah you could craft, but that didn't net you XP. You were still waiting. Some nights you just were unable to make any progress with XP at all. It's great that you never had to deal with that, but those who came before you like myself did. Trust me, better players than you or I could ever hope to be suffered just as much. Waiting for XP wasn't a sign of being bad. It was a sign of playing FFXI.

Everyone wanted to level a DD job, when I leveled whm/rdm/brd/pld or nin I never waited more than 20 mins for an invite. Usually within minutes of flagging I was in a party.

This is not a FF issues, it's an MMO issue. Everyone wanting to be a dd job.

[detlef]

I have done catobelpas before but only like once. I don't think this was the big most popular camp- bibiki bay didn't even support that many parties.I didn't claim that it was the only camp or the best camp. Just that people XPed there.

[Alhanelem]

I didn't claim that it was the only camp or the best camp. Just that people XPed there.
You certainly implied that you felt like that was a popular place or something, otherwise you wouldnt have mentioned it when people were talking about things like birds that virtually everyone did at some point.

[Demonjustin]

I hope SE will make this lv 75 Server to all players that miss these old days (as me)You have alternatives (http://supernovaffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Supernova) if you simply look...

[detlef]

You certainly implied that you felt like that was a popular place or something, otherwise you wouldnt have mentioned it when people were talking about things like birds that virtually everyone did at some point.This argument is stupid. I responded to a post stating that nobody did X by saying that people actually did do X. Come on man.

[PlumbGame]

You have alternatives (http://supernovaffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Supernova) if you simply look...

There is no alternatives to an SE level capped 75 server.

[PlumbGame]

Everyone wanted to level a DD job, when I leveled whm/rdm/brd/pld or nin I never waited more than 20 mins for an invite. Usually within minutes of flagging I was in a party.

This is not a FF issues, it's an MMO issue. Everyone wanting to be a dd job.

This is true, WoW, touted for being the most casual MMO on the planet, has DD jobs waiting in DF queues for more than an hour sometimes (even 2+ hours at times), to also have people just leave it when they get in.

[Shirai]

There is no alternatives to an SE level capped 75 server.

And you truly believe that this will happen?

[PlumbGame]

And you truly believe that this will happen?

Given the direction several MMOs have gone and releasing servers not only to what people are requesting here, but they were vastly more successful than the current servers, it's in the realm of possibility.

[Dazusu]

You certainly implied that you felt like that was a popular place or something, otherwise you wouldnt have mentioned it when people were talking about things like birds that virtually everyone did at some point.

To be fair, it was pretty friggin popular and supported at least 5 parties (which was a fair amount back then). Goblin Anglers down the bottom of the cliff. Goblins at the top of the cliff, and 2-3 parties on Catoblepas spread around the zone. Soon after CoP was released, it was consistently packed until ToAU arrived. At lease on Ragnarok where I was at the time.

Not everyone was hip to the mechanics of the game back then. It was popular to have two DD and a BLM magic bursting. "Melee burn" was something for King Vinegarroon and not much else, so even though the zone had less mobs, they went a lot further because groups typically took longer to kill them.

Bibiki Bay was usually the first port of call. If that was jammed, my groups would usually head up to Sky and drudge it out on Aura Statues or Weapons.

After ToAU it was pretty much deserted aside from the odd BLM soloing Goblin pets.

[Alhanelem]

Given the direction several MMOs have gone and releasing servers not only to what people are requesting here, but they were vastly more successful than the current servers, it's in the realm of possibility.
What works for one MMO doesn't always work for another. SE hasn't even commented on the idea so I wouldn't consider it in any realm of possibility until some kind of dialogue is opened on the issue. They will most likely shoot it down because they won't have the resources to commit to progress development on two separate versions of the game. I'm not telling you this to imply that it's a terrible idea, I'm only telling you this because I don't think it's realistic in the grand scheme of things.

The biggest issue is you can't just freeze the game at some point where it was just level 75 with X content. They'd have to develop new content or rework content created for the normal game. So they'd essentially need a whole other development team to maintain this special server. And the hardcore fanbase of any MMO is the top 5% of players at best, so they'd be devoting a LOT of resources to please a very small portion of their playerbase- because without spending those resources, the "classic" server would get old pretty quickly.

[PlumbGame]

What works for one MMO doesn't always work for another. SE hasn't even commented on the idea so I wouldn't consider it in any realm of possibility until some kind of dialogue is opened on the issue. They will most likely shoot it down because they won't have the resources to commit to progress development on two separate versions of the game. I'm not telling you this to imply that it's a terrible idea, I'm only telling you this because I don't think it's realistic in the grand scheme of things.

The biggest issue is you can't just freeze the game at some point where it was just level 75 with X content. They'd have to develop new content or rework content created for the normal game. So they'd essentially need a whole other development team to maintain this special server. And the hardcore fanbase of any MMO is the top 5% of players at best, so they'd be devoting a LOT of resources to please a very small portion of their playerbase- because without spending those resources, the "classic" server would get old pretty quickly.

Not only was my comment not intended for the direction of your argument, your argument is irrelevant and has been put to rest in multiple of the threads you say the same thing in. Of course nothing is ever an absolute certainty. I can't just say because X person over there won the lottery, I will therefore win the lottery. Given the success of MMOs though that have procured such success creating such nostalgia, that you can could also procure the same success. Also given the population size of current servers, it isn't weather you could hit a 3/4k pop, it's if a server like this could be financially more viable than this garbage size of a pop.

Your right, a classic server would get old pretty quick. Tell that to all the people playing on project 1999 for everquest that hits pop sizes significantly higher than FFXI servers do right now that the same content they not only did in 1999 was lame, but the content that the same content they are rehashing for 3 years now is getting old pretty quick.

I find it amusing though, that SE the king of re-releasing most of not just their FF titles, but there SE titles in general, rely on gambling that you guys will pick them up, which most of you probably do, but apparently can't re-release an XI server from the beginning, or they are supposedly going to shoot themselves in the foot.

[BurnNotice]

I've seen too many good players resign because how HNMs brought conflict among LS members and between friends. Back when I had a character on Siren, I was in an elite LS and seen people get booted from the ls for having poor gear....and these where the same people at camping HNMs all hours of the night, making claims.....trying to be loyal to the LS.....just to watch people get drops that they didn't earn or sometimes didn't need at all. I lost two of my friends in that elite LS and others lost friends from their elite LS too. It got to the point where I was suppose to get a drop from Nidhog, I wanted for everyone to pass on the item except for a lady friend, and intentionally passed on the item so she can have it. I did this because she gave her all everyday to that LS and then some. When she got the item, the some members raged and leaders got upset at her and booted her the next day. When that happen, I was done with the LS and with this game for about 2 years after that.

The only reason I came back because of the great changes that occurred. This game needs to be player-friendly. I am not saying it needs to be on easy mode, but I rather have it go in the direction where you can solo and get the finest gear and get the best weapon in the game (like soloing Empys, Mythics, and Relics) and do content that requires 6~36 ppl for super exclusive items for upgrades and each person having their own coffer or examining a coffer like VWs for their spoils.

[Alhanelem]

Not only was my comment not intended for the direction of your argument, your argument is irrelevantHey man, you brought it up. Don't bring up things you don't intend to talk about.

Like I said before, what's good for one game isn't necessairly good for another. In the prime example I'm aware of, EQ1, the throwback servers were successful because of how massively they ruined the game, particularly in the making of EQ2. I don't think anything in particular ruined FFXI, I think it is more a victim of age than anything else. I'm quite sure that the first MMOs like Ultima online (pretty sure it's still running) do not have the populations they once had, but that has nothing to do with their game being bad and everything to do with people just moving on after playing for so goshdanged long.

I know I at least personally left for a while just because I was getting bored and new content just didn't have the same spark it used to. A small part would also be broken jobs (in my view) that weren't getting fixed. Many of my gripes have since come to be fixed and I came back. I can tell you now that if those things didn't happen, nothing, and especially not a classic server, would have brought me back.


I've seen too many good players resign because how HNMs brought conflict among LS members and between friends. Back when I had a character on Siren, I was in an elite LS and seen people get booted from the ls for having poor gear....and these where the same people at camping HNMs all hours of the night, making claims.....trying to be loyal to the LS.....just to watch people get drops that they didn't earn or sometimes didn't need at all. I lost two of my friends in that elite LS and others lost friends from their elite LS too. It got to the point where I was suppose to get a drop from Nidhog, I wanted for everyone to pass on the item except for a lady friend, and intentionally passed on the item so she can have it. I did this because she gave her all everyday to that LS and then some. When she got the item, the some members raged and leaders got upset at her and booted her the next day. When that happen, I was done with the LS and with this game for about 2 years after that.I also had a similar experience to this. I also had an LS that was pretty significantly damaged after we were doing 30 man dynamis groups and funneling all the currency to one person. As soon as he finished his relic, he jumped servers. That's not to say that the HNM camps and such didn't have their moments, they did- but they also often brought out the worst in people. Today in the game I see significantly more friendly and cooperative behavior between players in the game. I feel like the stuff the OP wants to bring back (and this thread was almost certainly started as a troll btw) are one of the reasons for the decline of the population, not one of the benefits that maintained it.

[Dazusu]

I feel like the stuff the OP wants to bring back (and this thread was almost certainly started as a troll btw) are one of the reasons for the decline of the population, not one of the benefits that maintained it.

I'd argue that the stagnant end-game content was the reason for the decline (though there were a lot of dicks in end-game as has been pointed out; but similarly dicks exist now too - they aren't exclusive to one type of content).

The most noticeable decline in players that I recognized was about 6 months into Abyssea when people realised what it actually was, and what it was going to do the game. Just my personal anecdotal observation. (FYI: I enjoyed Abyssea, this isn't an Abyssea bashing statement).

[PlumbGame]

SE even said their biggest regret was abyssea, so I take anyone saying that anything aby and on was better for the game with a grain of salt.

[Alhanelem]

SE even said their biggest regret was abyssea, so I take anyone saying that anything aby and on was better for the game with a grain of salt.
The reason they had regrets about abyssea was it suddenly made people feel a lot more powerful and therefore it was hard to make future content live up to the excitement that abyssea initially offered. We've only just now semi-sort-of caught up to the sort of power abyssea gave with its special buffs. Since that's happened though, other content in the game is now more able to appeal to people than it might have been otherwise. The updated BCNM fights for instance have you wield that new power while also throwing in a bit of nostalgia with the fights not being substantially altered from the originals (Which I liked better than the artificial power caps of level restriction effects).

It's really not fair to include everything after abyssea as part of the problem. Abyssea (while fun at the time) was (in the long run) a problem, but that doesn't make everything after it problematic. thus, change your sentence to "..abyssea was good for the game..." (which I didn't say) instead of "...Abyssea and later on was good for the game..." and then I would agree with the statement. The power granted in abyssea made future content harder to enjoy. Had abyssea not existed, we probably would have enjoyed the other content that came after much more.

But the real point here is that any pop decline has little to anything to do with HNM drama and everything to with the add-on scenario approach they took instead of just releasing a proper expansion with content that was all made to fit together- which they eventually did but not before they screwed other things up.

[zataz]

not to change the subject but ive got video proof of a person poping tier 3 back to back to back without losing there ki >.>

[Rubicant82]

75 cap is now and forever will be dead and gone.
If you don't like it maybe you should go find a privet server to play on. rumor has it there are several out there that, and most of them are made for ppl who want to experience the old game.
Though with populations of ~100 people good luck with that. Plus SE hunts them and shuts them down anyway.

Everyone is can have their own opinion, but the game "back then" was a nightmare.
so much so that it was dying. People did not have the time to commit to the game like they did anymore. People were going towards more casual gaming because their real lives were getting busier.
Then the FFXIV debacle happened and in order to save this game SE gave us what everyone though would be the last installment; Abyssea.
Then what happened? the game though not gaining popularity stopped losing as many players. This band-aid provided enough of a stop that SE decided to launch a new expansion.
The "old ways" are how you kill a game. There is most likely less than 200 people who would want to play on a server that was capped at 75 and maybe had up to abyssea, with a few of the finer tuning job adjustments of post abyssea. I wish you the best of luck getting a server. But I hope to god that SE doesn't go back to the old ways with new content. They random number generator for augments and NM drops is already enough to drive people insane. I could only imagine how many people would quit if we went back to the tyranny of Tanaka days.

[Dazusu]

But the real point here is that any pop decline has little to anything to do with HNM drama and everything to with the add-on scenario approach they took instead of just releasing a proper expansion with content that was all made to fit together- which they eventually did but not before they screwed other things up.

That's the first thing you've ever posted that I've wholeheartedly agreed with, and I couldn't have said it better myself.


Everyone is can have their own opinion, but the game "back then" was a nightmare.
so much so that it was dying.

This game has declined more in the past 2 years (in the way of people online and actually being active) than it has the 9 years prior. There's so many things you could attribute it to. The release of XIV? The release of other new MMOs? People growing up? The truth is, everyone has their reason for moving on, all of those reasons are different - and given that SE doesn't even poll people who quit for their reasons (like every other pay-MMO I've ever played does), I doubt we'll ever truely know.

But to describe the game back then as "dying" is laughable, IMO.

[PlumbGame]

75 cap is now and forever will be dead and gone.
If you don't like it maybe you should go find a privet server to play on. rumor has it there are several out there that, and most of them are made for ppl who want to experience the old game.
Though with populations of ~100 people good luck with that. Plus SE hunts them and shuts them down anyway.

Everyone is can have their own opinion, but the game "back then" was a nightmare.
so much so that it was dying. People did not have the time to commit to the game like they did anymore. People were going towards more casual gaming because their real lives were getting busier.
Then the FFXIV debacle happened and in order to save this game SE gave us what everyone though would be the last installment; Abyssea.
Then what happened? the game though not gaining popularity stopped losing as many players. This band-aid provided enough of a stop that SE decided to launch a new expansion.
The "old ways" are how you kill a game. There is most likely less than 200 people who would want to play on a server that was capped at 75 and maybe had up to abyssea, with a few of the finer tuning job adjustments of post abyssea. I wish you the best of luck getting a server. But I hope to god that SE doesn't go back to the old ways with new content. They random number generator for augments and NM drops is already enough to drive people insane. I could only imagine how many people would quit if we went back to the tyranny of Tanaka days.

Hears rumors, yet apparently knows population sizes.

Don't be so ignorant in assuming that A. Everyone knows about X private servers (which you aren't even aloud to bring up here), and B. They bring the same experience. I'm going to assume by your comments that you know EXACTLY what you are talking about, not just hearing rumors, you would also know of the millions of issues that exist on these so called private servers.

Let's also assume that they did create said servers. You imply you have to play on it. At the rate these server pops are declining, there will soon be less than 200 players. I'd rather take the 200 players on those kind of servers than the 100 that will probably be around on each server in a year at this rate.

[Alhanelem]

I don't really think enough people fill out those exit surveys in any MMO for them to provide valuable data. I expect a majority of the actual responses would be useless comments like "this game sux" and "you are horrible" rather than meaningful feedback.

I could be wrong but that's based on my personal experiences with humanity.

[PlumbGame]

I don't really think enough people fill out those exit surveys in any MMO for them to provide valuable data. I expect a majority of the actual responses would be useless comments like "this game sux" and "you are horrible" rather than meaningful feedback.

I could be wrong but that's based on my personal experiences with humanity.

That's true, I usually don't fill those out, they would definitely be useful though.

[Dazusu]

If I was running an MMO, and my MMO held out at 3K active users per server (concurrent) for a good 9 years; then suddenly dropped to 600~ concurrent, I'd want to know why definitively; even if only 5 in 100 exiting players leave worthy comments.

The problem with SE is they presume to know what everyone wants/likes. They don't. This is much must surely be evident to everyone on these forums given how player feedback was disregarded for the longest time.

XIV V1 proves how much SE knows about what players want/like. They didn't take alpha feedback about that game seriously either. It got as far as release in its dire state.

[Alhanelem]

If I was running an MMO, and my MMO held out at 3K active users per server (concurrent) for a good 9 years; then suddenly dropped to 600~ concurrent, I'd want to know why definitively; even if only 5 in 100 exiting players leave worthy comments. That's not really what happened. The player decline was a LOT more gradual than you're implying, and it certainly did start sooner than 9 years.

Also, they seem to be aware of some of the things that may have been damaging to the game in the long term. They found it was a mistake to send players on a huge and crazy power trip with Abyssea because then future content wouldn't be able to live up to it. As I wrote past, they should have just released a proper expansion like Audolin instead of all those little add on scenarios which don't have much cohesion between them. They also seem to realize that their design direction with certain systems has left something to be desired, because they're now making changes to the game that people have pleaded for which would have been unheard of years ago. Like with PUP for instance, three years ago I never would have believed that SE would realize how far behind PUP was and that even giving them A+ skill wouldn't make them a number 1 DD. I myself never did many BCNMs because of having to walk 10 miles between each run, and i never believed that SE would make it easier to get to them or make it easier to try again when you lose (by being able to set an HP nearby). I never believed that SE would add the new 1-hour to give SMN 30 seconds of AWESOME, or that they would add an ability that opens up avatar solo skillchains and yada yada yada. In Audolin, they've made a few iffy decisions but they've also done a lot of wonderful things that I never expected they'd do.

One factor is simply the game is old. Even wow has had a gradually declining playerbase (though there's a spike upward with each expansion), just they had a much, much larger one to begin with so it isn't as obvious. Other old MMOs dont have the number of players they used to have either, just because they're old. You have to realize that not every reason is a problem or defect that can/will/needs to be address by SE for survival. Some of it is natural.