Is it worth it to make Reforged AF3 'Superior Gear', but ACTUALLY superior?

[Gwydion]

This is my question:

Is it worth it to make Reforged AF3 'Superior Gear', but ACTUALLY superior?

Would you be willing to spend 50 job points to equip reforged AF3, but to have ACTUALLY be superior?

Would you prefer this with or without mats included in the reforging process?

Could Abyssea AF3+1 papers be used to reforged to 109 or 119 directly?

Please share your thoughts on these suggestion.

Thank you.

[Crevox]

In my opinion, it would be bad to make it "actually superior" because then the balance of the triad (artifact, relic, empyrean) would be thrown off.

There's no reason one should be straight up stronger than the other two.

[Camiie]

I think they should just stick with the system that's worked well for the other two sets and leave JPs out of the equation.

[Numquam]

Just give AF3 stat vomit and increase their bonuses by a few %. I mean really, looking at some of the AF3, its still relevant for use when it comes to specific abilities, but all they really need are their respective stat vomit.

[Raydeus]

Personally I think they should just do a stat increase on Empy armor like with the other two sets. BUT, they should also add Superior bonuses to the 3 sets as well. Since it's all JSE gear giving the sets additional Superior perks would make sense.

Something like increasing set bonuses from wearing 2 or more set pieces would be good.

Edit > It would also be nice if these superior set bonuses helped specialize sets of armor.

For instance RDM AF is very much supposed to be focused on a melee-mage type of gameplay (Shield skill, parry, etc.) So maybe give that set a Superior bonus the increased melee stats in some way. Relic on the other hand is more focused on the Enfeebling, so the Superior bonuses should enhance that part of the job. And Empyrian is more focused on Enhancing so the bonuses should be focused on increasing enhancing magic effectiveness.

If they could do that for all JSE sets for all the jobs it would be great IMHO.

[Alhanelem]

The "superior" flag is being reserved for crafted gear. Unless they put some kind of crafting spin on the Empyrean armor reforge (not "AF3!" Relic armor, not AF2!), it isn't going to have the "superior" flag.

People are taking this crap way out of context. The Su1 flag is NOTHING MORE than a thing on the item that says "Must have 50 job points on the job to equip this." It literally means NOTHING else. All they wanted to do was put 119 crafted items behind a wall so that you'd still have to "do content" before you can use them, e.g. not be able to just buy your way to 119.

[Byrth]

I'd love to see upgraded Empyrean Armor. Ideally it wouldn't be locked behind Superior level, but they might do that.

If they just put stat vomit on the upgraded Empyrean armor and left the set effects alone, that would be fine by me. I'd really like to see some bonuses to the original unique traits too, though. Like, for Dancer:
AF3+4 head could have +30% Climactic Flourish and +11 STP
AF3+4 body could have +15% DW, +12 Subtle Blow, and +75% Striking Flourish crit rate
AF3+4 hands could have +15 Skillchain Bonus and +15 to the Reverse Flourish squared term
AF3+4 pants could have a ton of evasion and +2.5 TP/parry
AF3+4 feet could have +4% Feather Step and +15 STP

[Olor]

This is a terrible idea. No thanks. Empy gear with stat vomit will already be awesome. I don't want it locked behind a bunch of grinding. Frankly the entire superior idea is stupid because anyone that has 50 CAP points is already going to have 119 gear for their job. I mean you'd have to be pretty moronic to spend that much time playing a job and not put any effort into gearing it with reforged armor/skirmish/unity

Even if you can't get into any delve on your job there is plenty of ways to get 119 gear which are waaaaay easier and less time consuming than grinding 50 cap points.

If they lock empy behind SU I will be very unhappy. It should just require reforging like other armor.

[Ulth]

The "superior" flag is being reserved for crafted gear. Unless they put some kind of crafting spin on the Empyrean armor reforge (not "AF3!" Relic armor, not AF2!), it isn't going to have the "superior" flag.

People are taking this crap way out of context. The Su1 flag is NOTHING MORE than a thing on the item that says "Must have 50 job points on the job to equip this." It literally means NOTHING else. All they wanted to do was put 119 crafted items behind a wall so that you'd still have to "do content" before you can use them, e.g. not be able to just buy your way to 119.

This guy knows what's up. Artifact, Relic, and Empy can't just be bought with gil. You have to get them, get your chapters, and all the other stuff that makes you actually play the game. That's what keeps them out of reach. Superior gear is so they can add craftable gear that is 119 without people just being able to buy it with the gil they bought from a rmt after abby burning to 99. That is all. Ladies and gents put down your torches and pitchforks.

I have seen the stats on the superior gear they just added and to me they look like it will fill roles of gear sets that you would only use if you really enjoy that particular job. Like for thf there is two pieces that I would actually use. The Sombra Harness which would go into my mab set for Aeolian Edge, Lunge, and Swipe. And The Sombra Mittens for my fastcast set, but they only beat out Thaumas Gloves if they are +1. Even then it's the same amount of fast cast, but with 1% more haste.

[Malithar]

This is a terrible idea. No thanks. Empy gear with stat vomit will already be awesome. I don't want it locked behind a bunch of grinding. Frankly the entire superior idea is stupid because anyone that has 50 CAP points is already going to have 119 gear for their job. I mean you'd have to be pretty moronic to spend that much time playing a job and not put any effort into gearing it with reforged armor/skirmish/unity

Even if you can't get into any delve on your job there is plenty of ways to get 119 gear which are waaaaay easier and less time consuming than grinding 50 cap points.

More playing devil's advocate, but wouldn't that make Superior make sense for Empy? It'd be 119 gear that's better than other 119 gear. But to use it, you would have to "level up" through JPs. Besides the blatant QQ of the forums surrounding anything having to do with JPs, I think it'd make sense, and while I wouldn't welcome it, I don't think I'd cry about it either.

[Olor]

More playing devil's advocate, but wouldn't that make Superior make sense for Empy? It'd be 119 gear that's better than other 119 gear. But to use it, you would have to "level up" through JPs. Besides the blatant QQ of the forums surrounding anything having to do with JPs, I think it'd make sense, and while I wouldn't welcome it, I don't think I'd cry about it either.

Well I, for one, hope they don't go that route. For a casual player it's already really time consuming grinding out enough gil for the items to reforge AF/relic armor. Adding a bunch of job specific grind for empy would be really crappy, especially for those of us who like to play jobs that aren't exactly welcome in parties.

[Raydeus]

I still think the devs can use Superior for more than the current crafted gear. Like I said before, give Empy armor the normal stat boost and add set bonuses for all 3 JSE gear sets that trigger if you have the superior gift for that job. :D

[Ulth]

More playing devil's advocate, but wouldn't that make Superior make sense for Empy? It'd be 119 gear that's better than other 119 gear. But to use it, you would have to "level up" through JPs. Besides the blatant QQ of the forums surrounding anything having to do with JPs, I think it'd make sense, and while I wouldn't welcome it, I don't think I'd cry about it either.

Reforged Empy isn't going to be superior to reforged artifact and relic. They are different sets that add different bonuses that are relevant to their job. And I know it doesn't seem like it at this point, but they are safe behind a pretty big wall. Just chances are you are mostly over it. But think about all the stuff you have to do for it that you already done. For one you will need to get the empy armor. Then you need to reforge it. To reforge it you have to get to sea. You probably don't think about these things because you already did them ages ago. But even after that you have to get all the chapters. Chances are you don't think that is hard anymore, because the fights are easy once you have your nice 119 reforged armor. You can get them with sparks too, but that would also fulfill a large amount of grinding requirement. Then there is the gil aspect. It's going to cost some item. Chances are the item for your job won't be the item you chose as you main craft, so you have to buy that. Even if it is your craft, you still put lots of time and effort into leveling that craft. I'm betting there will be a second item you need too. Probably some item that only drops from a hard fight. So there is already all these things that people need to do and beat to get their empy reforged.

Superior gear is just going to be crafted gear that holds a spot as macro in pieces and other niche uses. Job points are not a means to level up. And they are most fun to get by doing 119+ events anyway which means you should have access to all 119 JSE armor before you need to get job points. Also you know if they did make it with the [Su] tag some poor brd will reforge it by mistake and lose access to their song midcast set.

[Byrth]

SE has directly said that job points are the new way to level up. They have also not said, as far as I know, that Superior levels will be reserved for craftable gear. The Superior system could go up quite a ways, and it looks like they might be planning to have a new superior level every 50 JPs.

I bet that Empyrean armor isn't Su1, but I'd be unsurprised to find it is Su2 or Su3.

[Zekander]

What they really should do is make Su versions of REM weapons and buff their stats.

[Alhanelem]

What they really should do is make Su versions of REM weapons and buff their stats.
They're already 119, without the su flag. The whole reason the Su flag exists is to establish a minimum requirement for equipping crafted 119 gear, because they didn't want a fresh lv99 to be able to instantly buy the max level gear.

The relic weapons will undoubtedly get new upgrades when the ilvl cap rises (which we know it will), and will not have an Su status because they created it for crafted gear, not quested.

[Byrth]

because they created it for crafted gear, not quested.
You keep saying this, but the only thing I remember them saying is that Su1 gear would be crafted. I'm pretty sure they never restricted themselves to having it only be crafted gear in the future. Do you actually have a quote?

Edit:

Superior Equipment
Superior has been added as a feature to further expand items post-level 99.

Players will now be able to equip items marked as Superior [Su] after obtaining the Gift Superior.
With the addition of Superior, we were able to add new synthesized items with an item level of 119. Moving forward, we'll consider adding even more attractive crafted items.
Again, I don't see anything there that says they're never going to add R/Ex gear with an Su tag. They're just talking about the most recent patch and their aspirations for crafting in the future.

[Camiie]

I still think the devs can use Superior for more than the current crafted gear. Like I said before, give Empy armor the normal stat boost and add set bonuses for all 3 JSE gear sets that trigger if you have the superior gift for that job. :D

There are already Gifts for having a lot of JPs. No other special rewards are needed.

[Alhanelem]

Again, I don't see anything there that says they're never going to add R/Ex gear with an Su tag. They're just talking about the most recent patch and their aspirations for crafting in the future. Actually, they did specifically say they would add even more *crafted items*. Not "Crafted items and non crafted items / R/E / empy gear / other stuff," right in the very line you quoted.

The purpose of the Su flag is clear, and they even stated the reason for it themselves. Why fantasize about what it probably won't be when they told you explicitly what it means and what they're doing with it?

Gear from content doesn't need this flag because you have to beat the content to get the gear. Crafted items can be bought by people who haven't/can't beat the content. Their decision with crafting is that it can't produce the highest level gear without some additional requirement (hence, the Su flag). Ever since the level cap rise there was very little in the way of crafted items at max level, when prior to that, there was lots of lv75 crafted items (Many of which had an additional requirement: Un-cursing with attestations). It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where they're going with this...

Besides, do you really want them to use this for more stuff? For endgame content, is beating the hardest endgame content not enough to be rewarded with the best gear without having to grind 50 (or more) job points? That gear is the best because you had to work hard to get it, we don't need an item flag to tell you that.

(For all the Japanese experts: Is it also called "superior" in japan? or did they pick a different name, like how Trust has a different name?)

[Byrth]

I'm pretty sure you're reading too much meaning into the translation. They're saying:
1) We introduced the Superior system.
2) You can wear Superior gear after obtaining the Superior Gift.
3) Because we added this system, we can add iLevel 119 crafted gear.
4) We will add more good crafted gear in the future!

Nothing about what they said implies that the system will be reserved exclusively for crafted gear, but I would be happy to have a community rep clear this up.

I suspect that Empyrean sets and future job-specific equipment sets will likely be Su# because Su is a JP-dependent system and they've been adamant that JPs are going to stay job-specific. It may not be what I want or be particularly good for FFXI, but it makes sense that they would use the system this way.

[Alhanelem]

they've been pretty clear that this system was created for crafted items, so I extremely doubt that empyrean upgrades will have anything to do with it; From what they said, it doesn't make sense at all that they would use it that way, especially since they haven't told us they intend to use it this way. I've also never seen them pull this kind of a dick move where they would say something like this and the turn around and do something like you said, which even you said it's not what you want.

Job points are job specific, but the Su-flagged gear we have now is not. there's nothing there to imply that they will use it for major JSE sets like empyrean armor, which aren't even crafted.

[Jile]

there's nothing there to imply that they will use it for major JSE sets like empyrean armor, which aren't even crafted.

This is not a suggestion I want to happen but.... this could be an opportunity for SE to utilize synergy where the owner of the AF3 would place their piece and required items for themselves or a qualified synergistic crafter with the skills to create said upgrades. Again, I'm spitting on the ground at the very thought but it wouldn't surprise me either lol.

[Byrth]

Also, they haven't been clear at all that it is a system reserved for crafted items, unless there is a post about it out there that I haven't seen. They're just discussing the benefits of the Superior system in the post I quoted. "Hey, it lets us release cool buyable gear! Yay! Lets release more cool gear!" is not the same as "Hey, it lets us release cool buyable gear! This is all we're ever going to use the system for!"

[Alhanelem]

This is not a suggestion I want to happen but.... Then we honestly shouldn't give them any ideas. :p

[Camiie]

Also, they haven't been clear at all that it is a system reserved for crafted items, unless there is a post about it out there that I haven't seen. They're just discussing the benefits of the Superior system in the post I quoted. "Hey, it lets us release cool buyable gear! Yay! Lets release more cool gear!" is not the same as "Hey, it lets us release cool buyable gear! This is all we're ever going to use the system for!"

Besides... look at what they're doing with the JP system compared to what they initially said it would be. They are not afraid to lie to us.

[Alhanelem]

Besides... look at what they're doing with the JP system compared to what they initially said it would be. They are not afraid to lie to us.
They haven't lied about anything I can see. I don't think they ever said anything like "The importance level of job points is going to be X. You're going to need it for this and not need it for that and bla bla bla." So what exactly have they lied about?

Do you need Su1 gear to progress? Like hell- people have indicated in this and other threads that most of this stuff is not as good as they thought it would be. Thus you don't need the 50 JP and the Su1 unlock to progress.

[Malithar]

The "lie" is that they said something along the lines of "Job points are meant to be earned casually by playing content" which hasn't quite come to fruition yet, unless you live in Incursion. Skirmish and Delve give some CPs, but really, it's not that much in the grand scheme of things, unless you just live in them as well. It's not really a lie IMO, but the reality and what they said don't quote match up either. There's always room to improve, and they've gotten better overall.

I'm anticipating the next batch of Alluvion Skirmish to be a major source of JPs, specially since Gifts are out now and many players will be wanting them. What better way than to introduce a new event with gear that's desired, and massive amounts of JPS?

[Crevox]

I lived in Delve for 3-4 weeks and that capped my Geomancer gifts. But yeah, I lived in Delve.

[Alhanelem]

The "lie" is that they said something along the lines of "Job points are meant to be earned casually by playing content"I don't see how that's a lie. doesn't most/all endgame content give CAP? All monsters in audolin areas give CAP? The only way you could even stretch this to be a "lie" is that it isn't as speedy as you'd like. But the fact remains that just about anything that involves killing things in some way will give you CAP/JP. And they've (very) gradually expanded this, first by adding chain bonuses, then by adding CAP awards to BCs and other content, then adding bonuses through the gift system, offering multiple double CAP campaigns, adding items that boost CAP... It's exactly the same as EXP was- super slow when the game was new, and then it got easier and easier over time. I've earned a number of job points just doing things that I would do anyway.

[Camiie]

Massive derail, but they said JPs would just be these minor buffs that wouldn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Well the buffs are getting bigger with gifts thrown in, there's armor you can't equip without them, some jobs are getting rather necessary buffs from them, they're talking about adding JP exclusive spells, and they have said that they may look into adding content where the benefits of JPs are necessary. You can parse the words however you like, and I have no doubt that you'll spend quite some time doing so as you are wont to do, but what JPs are becoming is drastically different than what they initially indicated.

So, I can see that happening with Su gear as well. I can just about guarantee it's going to go from "it's just to keep people from buying their way to 119" to "any gear past level x will require y JPs" or something silly like that.

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

[Garota]

I'm in favor for Empyrean Reforge to be equipable with Superior Gift. All gear that's been released with "Superior" classification has proven to be Inferior to recently released gear. Unity weapons such as Jugo Kukri+1 should be more of a reward to those who've put in time and effort into the job, same goes for the Alluvion Skirmish armor, the potential augmented bonuses they provide are far superior to any previously ever released. If somebody really wants to equip the new Empyrean Reforged armor, they should put some job points into the actual job they'll be getting the armor for. But that's just my opinion.

I feel like the Job Point system is more like what the Merit Point system should have been like, the only reason my WAR90, MNK99, RDM99, THF99, DRK93, BRD92, SAM91, DRG90 all have capped merits isn't because I earned them as those jobs, its because I had excess merits to allocate which I had earned while playing SMN, BLM, or SCH in Abyssea and Voidwatch. I don't feel like I played my DRG enough to earn the Angon ability or even the reduced Jump Recasts like the kids who dedicated enough playtime to the job.

So because of that, I feel that somebody who has played Summoner enough to earn those 50 Job Points to gain the Superior trait has the privilege compared to a casual player who wants to also wear the coveted Caller's Reforged Empyrean armor.

[Alhanelem]

Su is a limitation intended for crafted gear. empyrean gear is not crafted. Why do you want an arbitrary restriction on something like this when neitehr the relic or af had it? if it's going to be the same ilvl espeically it shouldnt have additional requirements.

They could have called the "superior 1" flag "Hippidyflippitydooo 1". People are taking the term out of context. It doesn't mean the gear is superior- it means that its crafted gear with an additional requirement to equip. The developers felt like this was necessary to allow people to craft 119 gear for whatever reason. It has become common in MMOs as a tool to limit the power of RMT to make the highest level gear only come from content, so players can't buy their way to the top without facing any real trials.

Your motivation is you want to have something "filthy casuals" cant have, and that's lame and sad (not that casuals can't earn job points, because they can). That's not what the Su flag is for. The Su flag is for crafted gear because crafted gear doesn't have any requirements other than gil to obtain. The empyrean armor will almost certainly have a similar set of requirements to the relic and AF, and thus the Su flag is not necessary. If empyrean should have it, then all 119 gear should have it.

(Note that they haven't yet suggested that a ilvl increase is coming with this patch, so unless they mention otherwise between now and patch day, it's going to be the same ilvl as the relic and empy).



So, I can see that happening with Su gear as well. I can just about guarantee it's going to go from "it's just to keep people from buying their way to 119" to "any gear past level x will require y JPs" or something silly like that.

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. It's not going to happen. The system was specifically created for crafted items, it's highly improbable that they are going to apply it to anything else. Feel free to make me eat my words if it does happen, but I'm calling it now, it's not happening.

[Stompa]

If any gear ever was not [Su] its AF3, you could buy most of the base set for cruor/ dom notes/ res creds, the boots dropped from a box from any EP mob. Upgrading it to +2 did take a while in the beginning, but later when people learned the magic procs, and had obtained atmas/abysites etc., the +2 fights were easier. Now any mule can get get all Af3+1/+2 upgrade items with a couple of log-in campaigns.

Add to that the fact that AF3 is Aby-era, and Aby was all about easing restrictions, zombie FC leeches, Magian Trials where you could solo-build some of the best non-RME weapons in the game on a casual solo timeframe by just killing EP mobs when it raining or w/e.

Aby era was actually the opposite of [Su]perior, it was more like [So]cialism where any farmboy could feel like a king for a day in their shiny atmas, Af3 and magians lol.