[REQUEST] Auto-Engage for Automaton

[crptaculous]

Hello!

First, I would like to mention that I am very happy with the December update to the removal of the animation and /ja delay from "maneuvers". This has greatly improved our DPS potential.

One thing I am noticing (and always have, but it took a backseat to the maneuver issue), is the fact that in large scale content, such as Delve, CP farming, etc, when there are a lot of Damage Dealers, the act of having to engage the pet is still pretty cumbersome in DPS output potential. Since we have to either /ja deploy, and suffer the 3 second delay, and engage target, or engage target then /ja deploy and still suffer from the 3 second /ja delay.

What I would like to request is one of four things:

Something either similar to how Trusts work, such that the Automaton auto-deploys when I engage a target,
A new /ja for the master, that sets the Automaton to an auto-deploy mode that works similar to Trusts battle engage,
An attachment that enables auto-deploy mode that works similar to Trusts battle engage, or
A direct copy/paste of SMN avatars/spirits, such that the automaton engages when the master pulls hate or engages a target (though this one could be a little annoying since the automaton is a bit more...automatic than SMN pets)


Still would want to keep the /ja "deploy" regardless of any of the above ideas, for when we want the automaton on a different target, or we don't want to engage said target.

Removal of the animation and /ja delay from Deploy could be an option, too. But Auto-deploy would be a lot more helpful than that.

Thank you for your time and any consideration.

Have a nice day!

[Roja323]

I would second this: On any event were mobs die in under 10 seconds, ur losing 3 seconds of master attack to deploy, then you have to wait on the next mob/skip mobs with the pet because deploy wont be ready.

I dont want it to be 100% auto, I would say #2/3 so its something we can toggle, but deploy needs to be faster.

1) auto deploy (with toggle from attachment or ja)
or
2) reduce deploy down to 5 sec reuse, and remove ja lock/animation

[Bluestar2kx]

I'm likely alone in this, but removing the animation lock has been a bit disorientating to me, and seemingly pointless, though no doubt everyone could spam me with numbers on DPS charts. (but thats just more pointless to me.)

But anyway, I don't really like the changes you're mentioning, least the automatic ones, because being able to have my automation on a different mob then me is sometimes quite important, as I'll often use her to fight/tank a separate mob then me (A very annoying element of the trust NPC's, esp the lack of commands with them so I have to draw hate first to get trion to do anything to anyone else, and they switch back to whatever I target), it would also be a problem in dynamis where I'll have her proc a mob, and move to the next while I defeat the previous ones.

Having a toggleable command might work, but I'd imagine it would be easier to implement at a / command level, as most auto-target commands are done that way, I imagine auto attack like avatars do is much the same, and would likely be what would be done with automations.

Not sure if I'd like having animation locks removed from everything we do just to bump our DPS 2% or save time, when nobody else does or gets the same, but maybe I'm just too old school and uncaring about super good DPS numbers.

Any toggleable command is fine, but no automatics that I can't change. It's annoying enough with trust NPCs.

[Roja323]

Its hard to argue with someone who doesnt care about dps, when the whole point of a post is about DPS.

Animation lock costs us time and dps, the point of auto engage is to increase our dps so we are more viable in group situations. Why take a pup who has 30% of his dd come from his pet, when he cant even make his pet engage 50% of the mobs. Just take the monk whose dps comes from turning attack on.

Removing the lock from maneuvers was a huge bump in DD from a pup who is fighting non-stop, and using 3 maneuvers a minute. is 6 seconds of not attacking + 2 seconds for deploy (assuming its just 1 monster).

If you fight 6 monsters a minute, thats 6x deploys + 3 maneuvers, or 18 seconds out of 60 that you are just standing there doing nothing. Thats a huge chunk of time.


*I understand not wanting to force everyone to have to use auto deploy, but having the options via JA or attachment would at least allow those of us who care, the option to increase our DPS

[Bluestar2kx]

It's not that i don't care about DPS at all, would be kind of messed up being a DD job. It's more that I don't care or see the need to nitpick my dmg% so sharply, as other players might prefer to do.

As long as it's something one could opt to not use, I would be fine with some of these adjustments to deploy.
I think a / command would be plenty for most pups, like how we have for us... I think it was /autotarget off? Or something? I've not used it since dynamis was a Ls event back in 09^^
Perhaps something like... /petautotarget on/off?

I don't think having it as an attachment would be a good idea though, we have limited attachment slots and elemental room, adding extra ones for auto-targetting would take space from other potentially enhancing attachments to better their performance. A job ability... Maybe. Low recast time would be best in that event, but that means you'd have to set it every time you logged in, where as a chat command would stick wouldn't it?

[crptaculous]

you misunderstand, Bluestar.

I wasn't suggesting removal of the regular deploy job ability, but rather an addition to it.

The way I am suggesting, you'd still be able to set the automaton on a different target, no problem. The way I am suggesting, even if it was option #1, you'd still have the regular way of using the automaton, where you can deploy it on one monster, while you fight another., then when it's done, if somehow it finishes before you, it would link to you, but....if you wanted to engage it on yet another monster beyond that, you'd just deploy it as you do now. Nothing would change about the current way deploy works. just wanted to make it very very clear.

Yes. the animation removal is a bit strange, but oh so welcome. Trust me, whether you care about DPS or not(for whatever reason), it's a heck of a lot better, for us now. The only thing delaying us in damage output over time, is having to engage the automaton on a target, that's already got 4 SAM on it. By the time I set the automaton on the target, and finally engage....it's at 1%, then dies before I can get more than one hit in.

Remember, by the way, SE already mentioned that they are looking into increasing the elemental slots via Job Points, so elemental slots won't be an issue, sure the actual 16 slots will not change, so...I could understand the reluctance based on that.

anyway, hope that clears it up a little bit.


--just a side note, not that you care, but...the reason other players worry about damage % is.....it kind of is important in a group's success to winning stuff...like delve. you can't have 1 damage dealer carrying someone who's only doing 1% of the damage on the enemies.

[Grekumah]

Both puppetmaster and beastmaster pets have advantages that wyverns do not, and if we were to make them function the same way as wyverns we would have to remove these advantages. For example, fighting separate monsters with your pet and setting a pet on a monster which gives you the option to run away.

These are special characteristics of beastmaster and puppetmaster, and as such we do not want to take this away from them and change this system.

In regards to puppetmaster DPS, we will be adding new high-tier versions of attachments for automatons in the future, so please hang tight for this adjustment.

[Rubeus]

But, on Summoner, your pet will at least auto-engage anything that becomes aggressive against you. As it stands with BST and PUP, your pet is as likely to stand there gawking. I think that's more the overall problem, at least to me. If you changed BST and PUP pet behavior to defensively respond to things, they'd join you in battle either way. How would this be much different from a SMN, who do keep their special characteristics despite having a "smarter" pet?

[Genoxd]

Can you make it so Avatars don't randomly run off and start attacking sleeping monsters in content with global hate such as Incursion. It's kind of annoying -to say the least- to see my pet instantly run into a group of sleeping mobs that I have done nothing to (not even resting) and start attacking a sleeping one.

[Alhanelem]

Both puppetmaster and beastmaster pets have advantages that wyverns do not, and if we were to make them function the same way as wyverns we would have to remove these advantages. For example, fighting separate monsters with your pet and setting a pet on a monster which gives you the option to run away.

These are special characteristics of beastmaster and puppetmaster, and as such we do not want to take this away from them and change this system.

In regards to puppetmaster DPS, we will be adding new high-tier versions of attachments for automatons in the future, so please hang tight for this adjustment.
This is good, and in fact I find the auto-engaging of avatars quite annoying sometimes and wish it could be toggled. The only time I find it particularly beneficial is when I pop NMs- it's nice so that I don't take a hit before I can do anything since the pet instantly takes it off.

As far as pet commands go, what I WOULD like is a "Stay" command for PUP. BST has this option and since we're talking about BST and PUP in the same breath, maybe we could get a "Stay" command for PUP.

I suppose I could just be spoiled by FFXIV though, where I can even tell my pet to go to a specific location and stay there.

[crptaculous]

Both puppetmaster and beastmaster pets have advantages that wyverns do not, and if we were to make them function the same way as wyverns we would have to remove these advantages. For example, fighting separate monsters with your pet and setting a pet on a monster which gives you the option to run away.

These are special characteristics of beastmaster and puppetmaster, and as such we do not want to take this away from them and change this system.

In regards to puppetmaster DPS, we will be adding new high-tier versions of attachments for automatons in the future, so please hang tight for this adjustment.

I understand that about wyverns.....but: I was not implying anything like wyverns. What I am suggesting is a job ability that makes the automaton auto-link to me when I hit something. On top of that, the automaton would still be able to be set to fight another target even after it engages something I hit, via /ja Deploy <t>. We can currently do this withn avatars (well, all of the time), so....why not with automatons, and even I guess BST pets?

[Mitruya]

This is good, and in fact I find the auto-engaging of avatars quite annoying sometimes and wish it could be toggled. The only time I find it particularly beneficial is when I pop NMs- it's nice so that I don't take a hit before I can do anything since the pet instantly takes it off.

As far as pet commands go, what I WOULD like is a "Stay" command for PUP. BST has this option and since we're talking about BST and PUP in the same breath, maybe we could get a "Stay" command for PUP.

I suppose I could just be spoiled by FFXIV though, where I can even tell my pet to go to a specific location and stay there.

I would also love a "Stay" command for automatons.

[Selindrile]

I understand that about wyverns.....but: I was not implying anything like wyverns. What I am suggesting is a job ability that makes the automaton auto-link to me when I hit something. On top of that, the automaton would still be able to be set to fight another target even after it engages something I hit, via /ja Deploy <t>. We can currently do this withn avatars (well, all of the time), so....why not with automatons, and even I guess BST pets?

I understood and liked your suggestion, but it feels like most don't seem to follow it, making this change wouldn't take anything away from Pup, only give them another option.

[Kyosukerob]

As someone who's played PUP for far longer than its relevance I'd appreciate it if this wasn't the case. Often I've popped NMs then had to move them to a safe place to duo with my automaton before engaging. I also prefer to have a greater degree of control over my automaton over having it go and make decisions on its own. The requirement for maneuvers to be active to influence the AI annoys me at times but I understand its importance. Maybe if this were in the form of an attachment but I'd imagine that'd be a huge undertaking for the Devs. Do what I tell it, don't do things I don't tell it to do. That's what I look for when I'm PUPing. I'd be demanding something like a JA to make the automaton cast a buff/heal when the appropriate spellcast timers are up long before this.

[Roja323]

not that it matters, but i feel like a lot of people replying to this thread didnt even read the original post.

auto engaged was requested as a optional feature we could toggle for those who wanted it. not demanded that all players use it. Any response to not wanting it because in x y z situation is completely irrelevant since it was AN OPTIONAL FEATURE WE COULD TOGGLE.

Since weve already been shut down, it doesnt really matter other than people who didnt read any of the thread continue to comment on it.

[crptaculous]

Thank you Roja. Exactly what seems to be going on, ppl just rad the title thread and then knee-jerk post.


again, for the 5th time: It has been re-proposed to become a stance, such that with the stance up, when you'd engage a target, if the automaton is not currently deployed, it would automatically deploy as soon as you hit the target.

now I again, I will state: With the stance ON, it would NOT <<<<<NNNNOOOOOTTT>>>> change ANYTHING about how you currently play the dang job, no not one freakn bit. I'm sorry but people all hung up on something that isn't even an issue with or without the stance. Because even if you'd engage a target, and the automaton is not deployed, and then becomes deployed via this /ja stance, you could still set the automaton on another target. Or I can leave the target the automaton and I are on and go fight another, and the automaton would stay on the first target, because it's already deployed.

[Glamdring]

I personally like the different behaviors of the different pets, although there are always inconveniences. my bst pet won't engage on its own but will fight any links that attack it, great when solo, but an issue in a party if someone sleeps the add (or if I go back to the old days for nostalgia's sake and lullaby it), easily solved by an attack command back on to the target. My avatar engaging on its own so I don't have to get in harm's way, great unless I'm trying to sneak around without fighting but there's this wonderful option, dismissing the avatar until I'm ready to use it. My auto being single-minded and only attacking what I tell it to, when I tell it to and-to an extent-HOW I tell it to. My wyvern automatically engaging only when I do, and automatically disengaging when I do, with certain preset moves I can always depend on being whatever when I trigger them. I just play the appropriate job for the prey. My only barrier is that some jobs aren't geared as well as others, and except for setting the methods of getting the gear that isn't SE's fault, that's mine.

so, as to pup engaging as soon as I do without an attack command, not really an issue for me. Even with top end gear I'll never be allowed to bring it to anything but a CP party once people know I have a brd, mnk, rng, blm and rdm available. We need to worry about pet numbers before we worry about this so we even have utility-that other players will actually recognize and respect. And that does not seem to be something SE is inclined to fix.

[Orcao]

I think I'd rather see Deploy get the same treatment as Maneuvers, with the removal of JA delay. Maybe that and a 5 second cooldown. A stay command would be neat too, since as-is deploying at 20' can result in the automaton charging into melee if the target is moved. Though maybe the real problem is that the automaton can't last more than 10 seconds in melee range against end game content?

[Zeargi]

I think I'd rather see Deploy get the same treatment as Maneuvers, with the removal of JA delay. Maybe that and a 5 second cooldown. A stay command would be neat too, since as-is deploying at 20' can result in the automaton charging into melee if the target is moved. Though maybe the real problem is that the automaton can't last more than 10 seconds in melee range against end game content?

To be completely honest, All the main Pet Jobs should have a Stay command and their Issuing Commands have a shorter cast time. PUP could use it with their WHM and RNG frame when they need it not close, SMN could definitely use it for their Avatar's favor. And it doesn't necessarily need to have a Regen/Resting effect like it does for BST. That could be something exclusive for them, as both SMN and PUP can usually recover from a lose of a pet much easier than BST.