Serious Puppetmaster Suggestion Thread

[Nezha]

In light of the fact that the DEV teams have plans to make new attachments. I would like this post to be a reference for the DEV team, from the Puppetmaster community, so they don't end up making some attachment *we* don't find addresses the issues we have with the job as everyday players.

I do want this thread to be taken seriously, so try to keep in mind, that attachments that adjust pet distances etc. are things DEVs have previously mentioned aren't very feasible. But I would definitely like everyones input, so DEVs can do a better job at serving the community.

The suggestions below are based on issues I currently have with some frames and the idea that each frame should live up to the job it is modeled after, without displacing that job or upseting *balance* as well as taking into account some previous things DEVs have mentioned as not feasible. For simplicity I will list the issue followed by the suggestion via job abilities, attatchments, etc.


Valoredge Frame:

Issue:

*Difficulty maintaining hate in party/alliance, and even solo setting (even using all the best available pet enmity gear currently in the game: Breeder's Mask/Mufflers, Domesticator's Earring, Rimeice Earring, Durgai Leggings.

Suggestion:

*Enmity Screen Job Ability:
-Could be one time use: Enmity generated from next weaapon skill is given to the automaton.
-Could be short duration: Enmity generated for duration of effect is given to the automaton.
-Could be cancelable with intermediate duration with penalty for balance of duration: Enmity generated for duration of effect is given to automaton. Master cannot perform weaponskills or weaponskill enmity does not apply.
-Could be cancelable with long duration outlasting recast, but caviat for balance: 25~50% of enmity generated by Master is given to Automaton, but weaponskill enmity does not apply.
-Could potential come with opposite effect JA that gives enmity generated from automaton to master, similar to Innin/Yonin pair.

*Strobe II Attachment (previously mentioned as a possibility, refer to DEV promise post)
-Could work with Strobe to decrease Provoke recast timer.
-Could be "Animated Flourish" or another Provoke with seperate recast timer.
-Could provide significant pet enmity.

*Flashbulb II Attachment
-High Volatile Enmity generating version of Flashbulb

*Cover Attachment
-Could be a durational effect activated whenever cast timer and appropriate maneuver is active and player with highest enmity is standing behind Automaton or when Automaton is not the current target of monster enmity.
-Could be perpetually active as long as maneuver is active and player with highest enmity is standing behind Automaton.

*Crusade/Palisade Attachments
-Could decrease enmity lost when damaged as well as facilitating enmity gain.

*Granting Valoredge access to enmity generating magic

*Further increase availability of Pet Enmity+ Armor

Issue:

*Achieving optimal survivability comes at the cost of Automaton being able to maintain hate or perform most logically useful weaponskill.

Suggestions:

*Automaton Weaponskill AI attachment (Tactical Processor II):
-Automaton would preform WSs based on current HP (HP<70% Cannibal Blade (Self Preservatory WS), HP<70% Weaponskill that would deal the most damage on current target, while for Stormwaker Frame HP<25~50% Magic Mortar, HP>50% Weaponskill that would deal the most damage.)

*Reprisal Attachment (Reactive Shield II)
-Could serve as means to increase survivability through increased block rate
-Could also decreases enmity loss from taking damage

*Hammermill II
-Could add "Drain" effect to shield bash
-Could add short duration significant attack down to enemy to increase survivability

*Defender Attachment

*Sentinel Attachment

*Rampart Attachment

*Make mana jammers MDT-%

*Granting Valoredge access to Enhancing Magic (Granting it access to healing magic would be unreasonable as far as balance is concerned).

*Further increase availability of Pet Damage Taken-% Armor

Stormwaker Frame:

Issues:

*Casting priority (Mainly Haste II)

*Nuke Damage/Cost efficiency

Suggestion:

*Allow RDM/BLM Automatons to backline damage deal through spamming tier I/II spells, at the speed similar to how Sharpshot frame can ranged attack with Drum Magazine

*Magic Damage+ Attachment

*Make Automaton Magic prioritization based on enemy level relative to that of the Master


Sharpshot Frame:

Issues:

*Sharpshot Frame/Head combination is nearly obscelete
-In comparison to having it front line using Valoredge Head with turbo chargers, having it ranged attack at all just slows its DPS due to animation lock similar to Puppetmaster maneuver animation lock

*Low survivability with little intrinsic self preserving capabilities

Suggestions:

*Double Shot/Triple Attachment:
-Could be occasional effect when attachment and appropriate maneuver is active, would make ranged attacks less of a hinderance to DPS, and make backlining Sharpshot Frame/Head combination strong enough to be useful again.

*Attachment that adds drain effect to Ranged Attacks:
-Could be occasional with increased activation with number of maneuvers

*Give Sharpshot higher TP return on ranged attacks

*Give Sharpshot increased TP return for Barrage, instead of the same as regular ranged attack


(Not mentioning Drain Automaton WS, due to the fact that Automaton WSs kind of off the table, and by design, we are running out of maneuvers to assign additional Automaton WSs, without overriding others.)


Harlequin Frame:

Issues:

*Limited usage, almost never used
-In light of the fact that there is no plans to make new head/frames, there is NO reason any of the current head/frames should be useless.

Suggestions:

Concept: Would like Harlequin to be the "Onion Knight" of frames:

*Grant Harlequin Frame access to ranged attacks

*Allow Harlequin Frame to attack with both hands per round, since his attacks are considered Hand-to-Hand

*Give Harlequin Frame higher base MP and grant him access enhancing magic

*Give Harlequin Frame innate shield bypass effect, similar to formless strikes
-For balance this would not apply to weaponskills.

[Roja323]

I feel you want way more functionality then they will ever give and need to refocus on simple requests:

1) We need a high-end acc/ rng acc/ mg acc attachments
2) Our pets have awful hp/survivability/cant receive group buffs (something similar to drg buff sharing would be ideal, as well as being able to be hit with ae cures, high end -dt attachments would help too)
3) Give us the ability to disable weapon skills we dont want our pets to use before we summon them so we dont have to worry about maneuvers triggering the wrong ws.
4) fix pet ai, dont make us use an attachment that fixes ai (tactical processor II???? we dont even know what I does!)

Not really gonna touch the rest of your post, a lot of it makes no sense. Harle is going from h2h to blunt, and i dont see why he needs range AND dual wield AND more magic.

[Nezha]

As far as functionality goes, that was SquareEnix's own concept of the job, "feeling comfortable in almost any situation," and many of my suggestions were things they already mentioned. I was hoping to address ways the job is falling short of the job concept using quick copy/paste abilities/magic in the form of attachments to fix it that wouldn't require much coding to accomplish, save for the enmity screen JA suggestion.

Actually we do know what Tactical Processor does:


Prepare to have your minds blown as we have…yes…information about what the Tactical Processor does!

This attachment is a bit different than the standard attachment that, for example, gives XX% increase in attack, defense, etc. The automaton periodically checks the information around the automaton and decides its next move (if HP took a hit, it will cure, if TP has been saved up, it will perform a WS, etc.).

When using the Tactical Processor the frequency of these checks is increased and allows the automaton to respond to variations in its environment quicker and more precisely.

However, every time it performs a check, the overload value increases, so as the frequency of checks increases it will increase the possibility of an overload.

Epic sauce? Anti-climatic? Let us know!

Furthermore, with all the best current available gear, attachments, and food there is Valoredge has nearly 75% accuracy on VD high level battlefield mobs, so I would debate the "need" of (1) so much as making base accuracy higher, so we can use other maneuvers beside thunder maneuvers and not have to full time pet gear. But for sure there is not much we can't hit at this point with right gear, food, attachments+maneuvers. Also there is new even stronger food going to come out, so I think DEV team on the right track with this, it's not here yet, but we can probably focus on other issues like pet enmity/survivability now.

I agree on most of (2), but the reason why pet food gives Automaton such a huge buff is exactly because they can't receive party buffs, so buff sharing isn't likely:


Hello, everyone.

Rest assured that the development team has not forgotten about pets, nor are they ignoring your feedback. Everything is being taken in and considered for adjustments.

The first adjustment that they are planning, as we mentioned previously, is the addition of food that will affect both the master and the pet. Amongst this new food, there will be accuracy enhancing food, much like sushi, that will increase the accuracy for both the master and the pet. These new foods will be added in the next version update.

Also, due to the fact that pets cannot receive enhancements from songs and such, the development team is planning to make the effect received from food higher for pets than what the player receives.

Before any further adjustments are made, we’d like to start by implementing this first and monitoring the situation for a while. After the version update is live, please be sure to try out the food and let us know your feedback.

(3) and (4) I agree on, but again fixing things with attachments of already existing magic/JA data is much more probable than another massive Automaton pet AI overhaul, mostly because the data for abilities like Cover/Sentinel/Palisade etc. is alrdy there, so simply copy past data/animation, then configure to fit Automatons. I don't think there is enough manpower at SE HQ for a massive AI overhaul like that for FFXI anymore, maybe FFXIV.

You know what would be cool though? If we could assign each Automaton weaponskills to the maneuvers we wanted, to fit our own play style.

[Roja323]

As far as functionality goes, that was SquareEnix's own concept of the job, "feeling comfortable in almost any situation," and many of my suggestions were things they already mentioned. I was hoping to address ways the job is falling short of the job concept using quick copy/paste abilities/magic in the form of attachments to fix it that wouldn't require much coding to accomplish, save for the enmity screen JA suggestion.

Furthermore, with all the best current available gear, attachments, and food there is Valoredge has nearly 75% accuracy on VD high level battlefield mobs, so I would debate the "need" of (1) so much as making base accuracy higher, so we can use other maneuvers beside thunder maneuvers and not have to full time pet gear. But for sure there is not much we can't hit at this point with right gear, food, attachments+maneuvers. Also there is new even stronger food going to come out, so I think DEV team on the right track with this, it's not here yet, but we can probably focus on other issues like pet enmity/survivability now.

(3) and (4) I agree on, but again fixing things with attachments of already existing magic/JA data is much more probable than another massive Automaton pet AI overhaul, mostly because the data for abilities like Cover/Sentinel/Palisade etc. is alrdy there, so simply copy past data/animation, then configure to fit Automatons. I don't think there is enough manpower at SE HQ for a massive AI overhaul like that for FFXI anymore, maybe FFXIV.

You know what would be cool though? If we could assign each Automaton weaponskills to the maneuvers we wanted, to fit our own play style.

I am well aware of what they claim tactical processor does, however, it has yet to parse a significant change in anything other than overload.

You say things like "increase functionality" and "it is unlikely for a massive AI overhaul". Well which is it? I dont see them adding tons of stuff like you said which is why i suggested just 4 simple options that would be hugely helpful.

Fixing things with attachments requires new code to say what the AI should do with a certain attachment is equiped, which really isn't any different than new code that says Buff order > pro -> shell -> haste II when no attachments are equiped. I just would rather not waste attachment slots to control the ai of my pet, when i dont think there is a single situation that you would want your pet stoneskin'ing itself before it haste IIs you.

The thing about 1), is we know we are getting high end attachments, we know that they will specifically targeted for ilevel content, and we can pretty much guarantee they will be ACC related. The issue is, like you said, if we go full + pet gear and food, we get to maybe 75% acc on VE...but whats the masters acc at that point? Is it even worth bringing a pup if their pet cant come close to acc cap?

The question is, with a pup in high end gear so he can hit the mob, whats the pets acc at? If I am at 1.3k + acc with buffs/food, my pet is probably at 50% acc. Ideal would be for when a master is in full acc/dd gear their pet is at 75% acc, and when we go full pet gear the pet is at 90%+ acc.

I know what they said about pets and buffs, but I just dont think they realize that if a player needs 2x songs, food, and full acc gear, then a 5/10/15/25 acc attachment isn't going to take them from 900 acc to the 1200 acc + they need for most events.

[Grekumah]

Greetings, and thanks for the feedback.

One idea the development team is looking into is some method to make it so you can lock the weaponskill an automaton uses.

In the future we are planning to add an even higher tier version of the Armor Plate attachment. Additionally, we’ll be making adjustments so that Stormwaker automatons cast protect and shell on themselves.

We’ll be adding new attachments that enhance accuracy. In regards to increasing melee skill through equipment and merit points, but there being no change in attack or accuracy, this is a bug and we will be fixing it in the January version update. Likewise, we will be fixing the current issues with the Attuner and Target Marker attachments in the January version update as well.

[Roja323]

Greetings, and thanks for the feedback.

One idea the development team is looking into is some method to make it so you can lock the weaponskill an automaton uses.

In the future we are planning to add an even higher tier version of the Armor Plate attachment. Additionally, we’ll be making adjustments so that Stormwaker automatons cast protect and shell on themselves.

We’ll be adding new attachments that enhance accuracy. In regards to increasing melee skill through equipment and merit points, but there being no change in attack or accuracy, this is a bug and we will be fixing it in the January version update. Likewise, we will be fixing the current issues with the Attuner and Target Marker attachments in the January version update as well.

You sir get a +1

[Vivivivi]

I'd honestly love a couple new heads and frames, even if they're mostly cosmetic.

[Malphius]

I would like to suggest that Puppet Master get a Geomancer pet.

[Feary]

Greetings, and thanks for the feedback.

One idea the development team is looking into is some method to make it so you can lock the weaponskill an automaton uses.

In the future we are planning to add an even higher tier version of the Armor Plate attachment. Additionally, we’ll be making adjustments so that Stormwaker automatons cast protect and shell on themselves.

We’ll be adding new attachments that enhance accuracy. In regards to increasing melee skill through equipment and merit points, but there being no change in attack or accuracy, this is a bug and we will be fixing it in the January version update. Likewise, we will be fixing the current issues with the Attuner and Target Marker attachments in the January version update as well.


i hope these new attachments will be a Goldsmithing recipe 106+ (preferably 112). Since attachments are made with goldsmithing or alchemy and alchemist have turbochargerii /vivivale II.

it would contribute to giving goldsmithers an avenue to 110 that does not involve Ormulu Ingots.

[Glamdring]

i hope these new attachments will be a Goldsmithing recipe 106+ (preferably 112). Since attachments are made with goldsmithing or alchemy and alchemist have turbochargerii /vivivale II.

it would contribute to giving goldsmithers an avenue to 110 that does not involve Ormulu Ingots.

could care less about the attachment itself being tied to any particular craft, would just be interested in useful crafting derived items that are consumables to give any crafts beyond cooking and alchemy relevance in end-game content. That said, Blacksmithing and goldsmithing are the obvious avenues for armor plate with Blacksmithing being the more logical for heavier armor, e.g. the armor plate 3. If you are going to do that might I suggest cloth or leather for other protective options like a raise in evasion, maybe a woodworking attachment to increase the effectiveness of the bow on sharpshot (theoretically you could use cloth as well for a better string, or smithing to substitute a cable, even bone as it was used both for bows themselves as well as gut for heavier string.

[dasva]

Greetings, and thanks for the feedback.

One idea the development team is looking into is some method to make it so you can lock the weaponskill an automaton uses.

In the future we are planning to add an even higher tier version of the Armor Plate attachment. Additionally, we’ll be making adjustments so that Stormwaker automatons cast protect and shell on themselves.

We’ll be adding new attachments that enhance accuracy. In regards to increasing melee skill through equipment and merit points, but there being no change in attack or accuracy, this is a bug and we will be fixing it in the January version update. Likewise, we will be fixing the current issues with the Attuner and Target Marker attachments in the January version update as well.

I'm rather curious about the ws lock thing. We can already do this with maneuvers... but that often means choosing between the ws we want and maneuvers that will actually be useful. If there was some easy non maneuver way it would be awesome.

Would be nice if along with armor plate we got a new mana jammer... and of course changed them to mdt

[Zhronne]

The changes to Attuner and Target Marker are inspiring.
Now we need Barrage Turbine to not delete Wind Maneuvers and the promised increases to elemental caps are promising too; way too many times I've felt limited especially in the Light and Dark attachments on Spiritreaver and Soulsoother

[Roja323]

I personally would worry about a brd or geo or cor pet:

Geo:
We only get so many maneuvers, and a geo pet would be able to do 1 indi 1 geo, and you could have a max of 16 spells. Chances are the way the AI would work, is you'd throw up a wind, get indi haste and geo slow.

Bard:
Same as geo honestly, you only get 2 songs at a time, and with the way the ai is setup.

And chances are, with no maneuvers, they'd act like joachim anyways and give 1 refresh + 1 acc half the time, even though you gave double wind and clearly wanted double haste/indi-haste, etc.

[Zhronne]

They already said even in recent times they aren't even remotely planning to add more automatons/frames/heads, so we can stop worrying about GEO and BRD automatons at least for quite a long while.

[Roja323]

I know, i was just trying to explain why they would be a bad idea. Brd would be okay if the ai wasnt terrible, but geo/cor would be aweful.

[Nezha]

I am well aware of what they claim tactical processor does, however, it has yet to parse a significant change in anything other than overload.

You say things like "increase functionality" and "it is unlikely for a massive AI overhaul". Well which is it? I dont see them adding tons of stuff like you said which is why i suggested just 4 simple options that would be hugely helpful.

Fixing things with attachments requires new code to say what the AI should do with a certain attachment is equiped, which really isn't any different than new code that says Buff order > pro -> shell -> haste II when no attachments are equiped. I just would rather not waste attachment slots to control the ai of my pet, when i dont think there is a single situation that you would want your pet stoneskin'ing itself before it haste IIs you.

The thing about 1), is we know we are getting high end attachments, we know that they will specifically targeted for ilevel content, and we can pretty much guarantee they will be ACC related. The issue is, like you said, if we go full + pet gear and food, we get to maybe 75% acc on VE...but whats the masters acc at that point? Is it even worth bringing a pup if their pet cant come close to acc cap?

The question is, with a pup in high end gear so he can hit the mob, whats the pets acc at? If I am at 1.3k + acc with buffs/food, my pet is probably at 50% acc. Ideal would be for when a master is in full acc/dd gear their pet is at 75% acc, and when we go full pet gear the pet is at 90%+ acc.

I know what they said about pets and buffs, but I just dont think they realize that if a player needs 2x songs, food, and full acc gear, then a 5/10/15/25 acc attachment isn't going to take them from 900 acc to the 1200 acc + they need for most events.

Yeah I never said tactical processor was significantly helpful, but just saying we DO know what it does, in response to your saying we don't.

Increasing functionality and a massive overhaul are not mutually exclusive, most of the code for already available job abilities are already written, copy pasting them for an attachment is different from creating brand new frames/heads/attachment effects etc. I do admit some of my suggested attachments might require a little more work, like cover, but it makes more sense to me to give Automaton more options of managing hate through already available abilities, than to rework how enmity works overall or something difficult like that. Buff order stuff was already mentioned by Camate and wouldn't require an attachment based on what he said. I'm sure when they add Pro/Shell for Automaton self use they will fix spell cast order, but to be honest I don't care for this, I'd much rather stormwaker get Distract/Frazzle than Pro/Shell itself or if they just copy-pasted Koru-Moru's magic casting AI, I'd be happy with that too.

I don't think anyone is arguing we want pet stoneskining itself before Haste II or even stoneskining itself for that matter granted we already have Shock Absorber... so yeah don't know what to say about that...

As far as accuracy goes we are in agreement that it would be nice if pet and master could have high ACC together without having to spam thunder maneuvers and full time pet ACC gear, I was only making the claim the pet CAN hit well, with right gear/food, but of course at the expense of the master at this point.

As far as harlequin goes, suggestions were only to make it useful, by giving it a niche ability, like innate formless strikes on monsters like Tojil, or more MP so you have a pet that can cure itself which also has relatively high HP, with enough earth capacities to tank. I don't think there was anything senseless about wanting all pets to be used/useful if we aren't getting new ones.

[Grekumah]

As an additional note for pet jobs, I would like to provide the following information.

The team is currently working towards making it so that pets do not disappear when starting high-tier mission battlefields, Wanted battles, and Voidwatch. They’re hoping to implement this adjustment in the next version update.

[Malithar]

As an additional note for pet jobs, I would like to provide the following information.

The team is currently working towards making it so that pets do not disappear when starting high-tier mission battlefields, Wanted battles, and Voidwatch. They’re hoping to implement this adjustment in the next version update.

Here's hoping this applys to Indi spells. It's mildly annoying (and sometimes MP intensive, depending on the speed you're doing the content) to re-Indi each time a Wanted, VW, or Reive starts.

[Martel]

Let me add that the loss of Aftermath: level 3, and the resetting of wyvern parameter bonus is pretty annoying too. A lot of unity NM fights are so fast that I can't even spirit link every fight.

[Rwolf]

Even though this is a Puppetmaster thread, I hope they can start extending zoning to Beastmaster jug pets. The job has the most consumable to gil ratio, even with the 20 minute Bestial Loyalty. The game seems to save wyverns, automatons, and avatars pretty well when transitioning areas. I think it's time the same is done for Beastmaster as well, helps still for things such as Skirmish seeing as that will be a continued thing.

[Nezha]

Great idea worth reposting:

Hello!

First, I would like to mention that I am very happy with the December update to the removal of the animation and /ja delay from "maneuvers". This has greatly improved our DPS potential.

One thing I am noticing (and always have, but it took a backseat to the maneuver issue), is the fact that in large scale content, such as Delve, CP farming, etc, when there are a lot of Damage Dealers, the act of having to engage the pet is still pretty cumbersome in DPS output potential. Since we have to either /ja deploy, and suffer the 3 second delay, and engage target, or engage target then /ja deploy and still suffer from the 3 second /ja delay.

What I would like to request is one of four things:

Something either similar to how Trusts work, such that the Automaton auto-deploys when I engage a target,
A new /ja for the master, that sets the Automaton to an auto-deploy mode that works similar to Trusts battle engage,
An attachment that enables auto-deploy mode that works similar to Trusts battle engage, or
A direct copy/paste of SMN avatars/spirits, such that the automaton engages when the master pulls hate or engages a target (though this one could be a little annoying since the automaton is a bit more...automatic than SMN pets)


Still would want to keep the /ja "deploy" regardless of any of the above ideas, for when we want the automaton on a different target, or we don't want to engage said target.

Removal of the animation and /ja delay from Deploy could be an option, too. But Auto-deploy would be a lot more helpful than that.

Thank you for your time and any consideration.

Have a nice day!

[Jile]

If they were to add the function for auto-deply I'd want the commands:
/autodeploy ON
/autodeploy OFF

From a DPS standpoint, not needing to delay on each mob to send the pet when I'm grinding lots of mobs would be nice to turn on, as needed. In addition, I'm still wishing we had a composure-style-JA we could use to retain our active maneuvers until we use a new one or we/pet dies or we zone but that's wishful thinking at this point.

While I'm still dreaming... I'd also love it if they would add an attachment for making the automaton focus on removing status effects but if I load up a light maneuver my damage gauge will make curing priority over status removal at all times.

[Roja323]

I don't see the Deploy command slowing down my game at all really. .

So you dont mind the fact that in a fast kill party your pet doesnt attack every mob, or if it does you possibly dont attack every mob, and that doesnt slow you down? I am confused by this logic. Thats like saying you dont want autotarget for PC because you dont think it slows you down to have to turn attack back on after every mob. Sure there are situations youd want to turn it off, but there are also a large amount of situations youd want to turn it on.

Everyone pretty much agrees that it would need to be either a JA/Toggle/Attachment to turn it off, the rest of us just want an option to turn it on.

[crptaculous]

I appreciate the repost!

I'd like to clarify, about Auto-Deploy, because it seems people think I want Auto-deploy instead of the /ja deploy....but that couldn't be farther from the truth.

first: auto-deploy, as I envision it, would be an addition, not a replacement. You'd still be able to deploy it manually as you wish, and
secondly: Auto-deploy would not affect the automaton's target you originally put it on.
third: puppetmaster's auto-deploy would not work like SMN's avatar hate link, such that if you are attacked, the automaton would not engage automatically like avatar's

That being said, I understand one thing, sometimes, you want to, or rather need to, have the automaton disengage from a target (like Hyoscya if it charms someone, and you don't want to feed TP to the NM since you don't want it eating it's charmed player(s) )...

So ya....I guess a job ability to like SAM's Hasso vs Siegan, or WHM Afflatus Solace vs Afflatus Misery, etc etc....

So , ya... of all my ideas I put....I'd lean towards a Job ability (undispellable) that while active, would cause the automaton to Auto-deploy.

Now... I need to think if a good name for the job ability lol...how about call it : Mechanization?

[sweetidealism]

...i was just trying to explain why they would be a bad idea. Brd would be okay if the ai wasnt terrible, but geo/cor would be aweful.

I'm of the opinion that a GEO pet would be fantastic, just not as you imagine it. I think a GEO pet that shared the effects of its attachments based on which maneuvers you have active would be incredible. For instance, if I have Tension Spring and Inhibitor equipped, then I could use a Fire maneuver to not only increase the pet's attack and store TP, but also that of all nearby party members. A GEO style pet of this nature would be interesting, unique to PUP, AND desirable for parties.