Incursion bug

[Apollymi]

Hello,

We have cleared Incursion CL143 6/6 Key items several weeks ago, and when I traded all 6 KI to the NPC, it did not level us up to CL144, but it took all my KI.

I've spoken to GM.

See below

http://blog-imgs-47.fc2.com/c/h/i/chihiromom/CL143.jpg

http://blog-imgs-47.fc2.com/c/h/i/chihiromom/20141110033454807.jpg

http://blog-imgs-47.fc2.com/c/h/i/chihiromom/20141110033503566.jpg

http://blog-imgs-47.fc2.com/c/h/i/chihiromom/201411100330274ae.jpg


GM did not refund me my 6KI which took my group of 18 people over a week (several hours a night + many EXP losses to get)

Please help.

Thanks.

Apollymi of Asura

[Grekumah]

First off, the development team and the community team would like to congratulate your group on completing Incursion level 143. Well done!

The maximum level for Incursion is 143, which means you have completed all of the available levels and cannot go beyond this level.

At level 143, the NPC will take away all of your key items, but this is intentional. Since the Velkk are not a friendly race, they will retrieve the key items upon the completion of Incursion level 143.

We understand it’s a bit difficult to tell that you have accomplished the max level of Incursion and the dev. team is planning adjustments to the message displayed upon the retrieval of the key items.

We apologize for the confusion and again congratulations on clearing Incursion’s max level!

[Zhronne]

lol
I mean, not blaming Grek as he's just the non-guilty messager, but still... wow lol

[Apollymi]

I think this is rather unfair to us 18 players whom has spent 4-5 hours a day grinding, daily, for over a week not to mention numerous XP losses retweaking our strategy to get off the final win, to just lose all the key items/warps at 143.

Is it possible to have these key items returned to me?

Thanks and regards,


Apollymi of Asura

[Crevox]

Grats Apollymi :)

[Zhronne]

Is it possible to have these key items returned to me?
It's only right they do.

You guys are some of the world's best players. If anything the devs should be directly congratulating with you for achieving a world first, like it normally happens in many other MMOs.
Here you're getting bashed for THEIR mistakes.

The reply they sent the poor Grekumah to deliver is simply ridiculous and unacceptable, with all due respect.
Is this the way you treat your most loyal fans? The best players of your game in the world? Is this how you get to them when they accidentally run up against an unknown error you accidentally left in the game? Is this what they deserve?
It's not even like they could do anything with those KIs, but it's their prize, they worked very hard, stretching the game's engine and potential to the furthest possible limit. They do not deserve this, I'm sure everybody realizes this.

I don't think I've ever seen anything so unfair happen to legit, loyal, faithful, dedicated players in any mmo, anywhere, anytime in my history of videogame playing.

[dasva]

The really sad/funny thing is is if this glitch had benefitted them somehow they would probably be facing a disciplinary action but since it hurt them they just get a too bad so sad

[Draylo]

GM doesn't even know about the game, do they phone in from FFXIV?

[oliveira]

The really sad/funny thing is is if this glitch had benefitted them somehow they would probably be facing a disciplinary action but since it hurt them they just get a too bad so sad

What glitch ? lol

The Community Rep just said it's supposed to *delete* your KIs after you complete the content. Aka: "Working as intended."
They just forgot to translate the messages ("ah no NA/EU players will clear this anyway so why bother ?")... lol

@OP: Congratulations on finishing something really hard and surprising everyone.

[dasva]

What glitch ? lol

The Community Rep just said it's supposed to *delete* your KIs after you complete the content. Aka: "Working as intended."
They just forgot to translate the messages ("ah no NA/EU players will clear this anyway so why bother ?")... lol

@OP: Congratulations on finishing something really hard and surprising everyone.
Do you honestly believe that is working as intended? Heck the GM didn't even know getting that high was even possible

[oliveira]

Do you honestly believe that is working as intended? Heck the GM didn't even know getting that high was even possible

The Japanese test displayed suggests that they were not even expecting anyone not Japanese to achieve it ...

Anyway, I can only imagine that people would want to be able to repeat the content and removing the KIs for allowing so only make sense. Just like you lose the Einherjar feathers once you do the Odin fight. If that did not happen, the elites would want to keep repeating the boss fight over and over while other players keep "sucking their thumb".

[Afania]

The Japanese test displayed suggests that they were not even expecting anyone not Japanese to achieve it ...

Anyway, I can only imagine that people would want to be able to repeat the content and removing the KIs for allowing so only make sense. Just like you lose the Einherjar feathers once you do the Odin fight. If that did not happen, the elites would want to keep repeating the boss fight over and over while other players keep "sucking their thumb".


This isn't "intended design", this design makes no sense when it comes to design theory. It's also a very different situation from Einherjar.

Losing all KI after talking to the NPC makes no sense, it has no design goals, since the player can just choose not to talk to the NPC after 143 and keep all their KI.

If anything, it only punish the first group that cleared lv 143. Any subsequent 143 group can just keep their KI by not talking to the NPC since we all know about this glitch now.

If SE's design goal is to show that "Velkk are not a friendly race, they will retrieve the key items upon the completion of Incursion level 143", then they should take away all their KI after 143 without talking to the NPC. Based on what OP said that isn't the case.

I don't know what's the point to compare this with Einherjar. In Einherjar you NEED feathers to do odin, which gives unique drop and titles. This incursion design/glitch just punishes the first group that cleared it because the first group wouldn't know about this glitch.

[Ramzi]

The responses they send the community reps here to supply crack me up. "Velkk are not friendly" lol.

Just admit it's a bug for christ sakes. They are being punished for checking to see if they could upgrade to 144- there was no further upgrades to the KI, so they should be left with the ones they have so they can repeat the content if they wish. It makes zero sense, and as usual, instead of apologizing and fixing the problem, SE gives the most ridiculously stupid responses the internet has ever seen. I feel bad for the community reps that are tasked with delivering such nonsense.

A bit off topic but I'm actually quite shocked that this was achieved. How are level 119 players able to beat content 23 levels above them? Even with the best gear in the game, no one should even be able to hit the mobs theoretically. Maybe the difficulty stops scaling after a certain point? I'd be very curious to know the alliance makeup and gear considerations. Already assuming 18 mythics, but other than that, what types of gear are able to lift players to 23 levels higher than they should be? lol

[oliveira]

[QUOTE=Ramzi;533275A bit off topic but I'm actually quite shocked that this was achieved. How are level 119 players able to beat content 23 levels above them? Even with the best gear in the game, no one should even be able to hit the mobs theoretically. Maybe the difficulty stops scaling after a certain point? I'd be very curious to know the alliance makeup and gear considerations. Already assuming 18 mythics, but other than that, what types of gear are able to lift players to 23 levels higher than they should be? lol[/QUOTE]

Any good group with skilled players who know each other's play styles and have skills plus a good deal of ol' good communication will fly high. Crowds with the inverse, will sink deep in a sea of despair and frustrations. Teamwork is the keyword I suppose.

[Ramzi]

I guess I'm just wondering how anyone could even hit or land magic on the mobs. Unless the scaling drastically drops after a certain i-level, their evasion would be so high, no gear, foods, songs, or teamwork could overcome it. Imagine fighting Delve 1.0 in ilevel 99 (pre-adoulin) gear. That would only be a 20 level difference, but it would be impossible. But they did it, so obviously it's possible. Just wondering how.

[oliveira]

I guess I'm just wondering how anyone could even hit or land magic on the mobs. Unless the scaling drastically drops after a certain i-level, their evasion would be so high, no gear, foods, songs, or teamwork could overcome it. Imagine fighting Delve 1.0 in ilevel 99 (pre-adoulin) gear. That would only be a 20 level difference, but it would be impossible. But they did it, so obviously it's possible. Just wondering how.

It's like the original Final Fantasy series. The designers have thought of many ways of defeating the monsters. A classic example is the undead dragon on FFX which dies on a single hit if you toss it a phoenix down. The game even goes out of it's way to hint you about the monster's weakness.

Final Fantasy series always been about the choice of either resort to strategy to beat hard enemies early or grind up until you're strong as a "god" and bulldoze your way through the rest of the game.

[Protey]

I guess I'm just wondering how anyone could even hit or land magic on the mobs. Unless the scaling drastically drops after a certain i-level, their evasion would be so high, no gear, foods, songs, or teamwork could overcome it. Imagine fighting Delve 1.0 in ilevel 99 (pre-adoulin) gear. That would only be a 20 level difference, but it would be impossible. But they did it, so obviously it's possible. Just wondering how.

Have the best gear, stack buffs, stack debuffs. To give you an idea:

2x SV madrigals with +5 madrigal gear: 142 acc
saboteur distract2 with gear: -108 evasion (or 108 acc, however you want to look at it)
riverfin soup: 90 acc
gear: ~180 acc (not including DEX, nor skill on weapon)
hunter's roll (11 roll): 50 acc
indi-precision (with mythic) bolstered: 192 acc
indi-torpor (with mythic) bolstered: -190 eva (or 190 acc, however you want to look at it)


so that's about 952 accuracy in addition to what you have naturally from the skill of your weapon and whatever you can get from DEX. If need be you could also add in feint for -50% evasion (+ more with additional merits). All that accuracy will overcome the level difference.

[Zarchery]

This is the stuff Dilbert cartoons are made of.

[Zhronne]

Just wondering how.
Stacking multiple SP abilities in the same fight, coming from players with the best skills and best possible gear in game for their jobs.


Going back in-topic, Grekumah can you please be so kind to get the devs' attention on this issue? Please don't let it slide into nothingness hoping time will help people forget about it.
Something bigger is at stake here, it's a matter of respect towards your most loyal, dedicated, skillful players.

[Camiie]

GM doesn't even know about the game, do they phone in from FFXIV?

They're just like their bosses the devs.

[Apollymi]

I guess I'm just wondering how anyone could even hit or land magic on the mobs. Unless the scaling drastically drops after a certain i-level, their evasion would be so high, no gear, foods, songs, or teamwork could overcome it. Imagine fighting Delve 1.0 in ilevel 99 (pre-adoulin) gear. That would only be a 20 level difference, but it would be impossible. But they did it, so obviously it's possible. Just wondering how.

The difficulty is much higher than Delve 1.0 in pre-adoulin gear (we were one of the first groups to clear tojils back then, the first to 5NM shark and bee across all servers)
Back then, you can still hit with just SV Madrigals, as Bolsters were saved for stuns only because there were no ilevel magic accuracy staff, stuns will get resisted after a minute with apajamasII.

At 143, with SV Madsx2, hunters, Precision Torpor (non bolstered) and distract, and oceanfin etc... hit rate is about 30% lol

In order to win 143 boss, we used 4 (Punyanya, Rokumo, Nivlakian and Katsuoch) Idris GEO's full time bolstering in turns (one more Non-Idris had to bolster focus/languor as the guard NM was Insidious), full time SV Mads etc... In total, 5 freaking Geo's! lol
Bear in mind, this is not with Occult guard NM (evasion boost). If i recall correctly, the guards were Insidius and Brawny (took us 5 times to get to boss with multiple sacs just to get this guard NM Combo, we warp out if it's Occult OR Steadfast as it will be truly impossible to win)
On our winning run, we almost lost at 5% as our last bolster wore, but one of the two wildcard was a success and we managed to wither it down with a final SV and Bolster.

So you could see our frustration here, 18 of us grinding many hours just to get the correct guard NM to pop, and finally won..... just to have our KI's taken away for nothing?


http://chihiromom.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-35.html

Ramzi, click on the above link, it's from one of my team members giving full details/strats involved on clearing 142 and beyond. It's pretty detailed lol :)


http://chihiromom.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-32.html

This was minute by minute guide when we cleared 141


And finally,

http://chihiromom.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-39.html

The dreaded Lost KI post :(

[Ritsuka]

ya talk about a slap in the face basically told you haha sucks to be you. Or "oops"

[Camiie]

This isn't "intended design", this design makes no sense when it comes to design theory.

They just admitted it is indeed intentional. And just because it's stupid and nonsensical that doesn't mean it isn't working as intended. Remember who we're dealing with here. Our devs come up with a lot of stupid and kludgey ideas.

[Afania]

They just admitted it is indeed intentional. And just because it's stupid and nonsensical that doesn't mean it isn't working as intended. Remember who we're dealing with here. Our devs come up with a lot of stupid and kludgey ideas.

What I mean was, it may be an intentional glitch or something, but it doesn't qualify as a "design" since it serves no design goal. The design goal they gave us - "they're mean so they will take away all your KI" won't work as intended if the players don't talk to the NPC. It's actually very different from the "stupid ideas" in the past. Most of the stupid ideas in the past are just design goals disapproved by the players, this one simply has a design goal that doesn't function properly.

[GoltanaBuukki]

Just got through reading this post and I will say two things: First, congratulations on clearing 143. That is truly amazing. The second is how I am deeply disappointed in Square for, not only this response, but this "end result". Not only is it a slap in the face, but it is a sure form of lack of resepect for their gamers. It's not enough that the GM had no idea that Incursion can go beyond lvl 140. But the players themselves actually had no idea level 143 was the cap. SE never released this information. And if it was released, the problem is why there is no reward or finale for completing this content? It's almost as if SE decided "nobody is going to clear this content ever, so we'll just stop riiiiight here..."

That's really poor game design for the elite players. I'll admit, my GEO isn't anywhere close to being in this content, but for the players at the top of the tier chart, they have really disrespected the time and effort that was put into clearing the challenge. And the response? "Velks are mean, and they take away your KI". What a silly way to end a content clear. The funny part is, Where in the game dialgue does this explanation ever come up? It's one thing to say that's the expected outcome, but you developers didn't even include that verbiage in the actual game.

Sounds like a classic "Oh, crap....We got nothing for that" response. Admit the flaw.

[Ramzi]

The difficulty is much higher than Delve 1.0 in pre-adoulin gear (we were one of the first groups to clear tojils back then, the first to 5NM shark and bee across all servers)
Back then, you can still hit with just SV Madrigals, as Bolsters were saved for stuns only because there were no ilevel magic accuracy staff, stuns will get resisted after a minute with apajamasII.

At 143, with SV Madsx2, hunters, Precision Torpor (non bolstered) and distract, and oceanfin etc... hit rate is about 30% lol

In order to win 143 boss, we used 4 (Punyanya, Rokumo, Nivlakian and Katsuoch) Idris GEO's full time bolstering in turns (one more Non-Idris had to bolster focus/languor as the guard NM was Insidious), full time SV Mads etc... In total, 5 freaking Geo's! lol
Bear in mind, this is not with Occult guard NM (evasion boost). If i recall correctly, the guards were Insidius and Brawny (took us 5 times to get to boss with multiple sacs just to get this guard NM Combo, we warp out if it's Occult OR Steadfast as it will be truly impossible to win)
On our winning run, we almost lost at 5% as our last bolster wore, but one of the two wildcard was a success and we managed to wither it down with a final SV and Bolster.

So you could see our frustration here, 18 of us grinding many hours just to get the correct guard NM to pop, and finally won..... just to have our KI's taken away for nothing?


http://chihiromom.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-35.html

Ramzi, click on the above link, it's from one of my team members giving full details/strats involved on clearing 142 and beyond. It's pretty detailed lol :)


http://chihiromom.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-32.html

This was minute by minute guide when we cleared 141


And finally,

http://chihiromom.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-39.html

The dreaded Lost KI post :(

30% hit rate!!! holy crap- can't believe you were able to get the boss HP down before the buffs wore. I can't read Japanese, and the translate function isn't too great, but I'll take your word that the strategy had to be incredibly detailed and executed flawlessly for the win to happen.

Congrats on such an accomplishment. This content is really tough without communication and strategy (and obviously optimal jobs- 5 GEO lol).

Did you guys at least get good loot from your 143 coffers? :)

[Apollymi]

30% hit rate!!! holy crap- can't believe you were able to get the boss HP down before the buffs wore. I can't read Japanese, and the translate function isn't too great, but I'll take your word that the strategy had to be incredibly detailed and executed flawlessly for the win to happen.

Congrats on such an accomplishment. This content is really tough without communication and strategy (and obviously optimal jobs- 5 GEO lol).

Did you guys at least get good loot from your 143 coffers? :)
WAs pushing 70% acc with idris bolsters.

Without bolster its around 30% or less...