Beastmaster suggestions to DEV team

[Jile]

I'd like to suggest a few things that would make life as a beastmaster a little cleaner in the moghouse department.

Suggestion 1)
Can we get a section in the mog like the wardrobe that is dedicated for food/meds only which can be used in the same fashion, perhaps calling it the "Pantry"?

Suggestion 2)
Can we have a method similar to bundling toolbags for NIN where we could take 12 petfood and bundle them, which could stack in 99's? This would not effect the current synth whatsoever but would greatly decrease mog storage issues for people that main BST.

Suggestion 3)
Being able to stack dawn mulsum in 12's similar to how you do echo drops for mages would be nice.

Thank you for your time and consideration!

[Gwydion]

I am a huge fan of all of these suggestions...especially the dawn mulsims stacking!

[Glamdring]

I am a fan as well. But this has been asked many times, it was answered once. No for "balance" reasons. Those reasons were never actually explained, although 100 beast mains got together in various threads after the refusal and tried to theorize what those reasons might be. Despite 100+ pretty good brains working on the problem we never could find one, not even a half-assed one-but apparently there is one. You'll excuse me if I don't hold my breath waiting for another refusal or explanation of the prior one though I hope. Because it's been 3+ years...

[Grekumah]

Greetings Jile,

I was able to get answers to your three suggestions.




Suggestion 1)
Can we get a section in the mog like the wardrobe that is dedicated for food/meds only which can be used in the same fashion, perhaps calling it the "Pantry"?

There are no plans to add a new storage feature that would serve for such a limited use at the moment.

With additions of new storage systems, the dev. team will continue to develop new avenues to store items. However, if not handled carefully, increasing the amount of items players can hold could result in technical problems such as longer loading times between areas and increased server load.



Suggestion 2)
Can we have a method similar to bundling toolbags for NIN where we could take 12 petfood and bundle them, which could stack in 99's? This would not effect the current synth whatsoever but would greatly decrease mog storage issues for people that main BST.

Since pet food cannot be used constantly due to the recast timer (90 seconds), and mechanically act very different when compared to the usage of ninja tools, there are no plans to make these items stackable at the moment.

If we were to allow pet food to be stacked up to a set of 99, then there would be situations where these items would need to be in stacks of 99 to be placed on the auction house.



Suggestion 3)
Being able to stack dawn mulsum in 12's similar to how you do echo drops for mages would be nice.

Dawn Mulsum has a very high potency and because of this the development team intentionally made the item unstackable. At this time there are no plans to adjust Dawn Mulsum to be stackable.

If anything changes on these suggestions, I will make sure to update everyone.

[Zhronne]

Grekumah, the "At the moment there are no plans" man.

Poor Grek. Sometimes I get this image where the other community reps use their whip of power (being elder members) and force him to relay all the bad news to players lol xD

[Malthar]

Yeah; it's terrible how they're treating the newbie.

[Malphius]

I was actually thinking about the storage issue the other day because the load times are already pretty long for my taste. I think a good solution if technically possible, would for players to be able to select what mog bags load and which ones don't. This would reduce strain on the server and reduce load times for the client. Mog Safe, Storage and Locker are only accessible while in your Mog House. Satchel, Sack, Case and Wardrobe are accessible from anywhere. Having the option to "Turn Off" Safe, Storage and Locker from the client would reduce load time and server strain no? All Mog Bags could auto load when entering MH but as it stands, there's not much need for those 3 bags to load during 90% of your zone changes.

[Glamdring]

and what pray tell is wrong with having to buy in stacks of 99?

[Glamdring]

Grekumah, the "At the moment there are no plans" man.

Poor Grek. Sometimes I get this image where the other community reps use their whip of power (being elder members) and force him to rely all the bad news to players lol xD

maybe we could all chip in and get him a good shovel and some air freshener for his job? Christmas is coming up...

[Jile]

Grekumah, Thank you for the reply and for taking the time to research my questions! I cant say I like the solid block of "no" but I appreciate a reply just the same.

[Rwolf]

I can accept the not stacking of Dawn Mulsum, but I don't get the issue with having pet food synthesize and stack to 99. Beastmaster is still limited to the Reward timer, so it's not as though more food in your bag increases your pet durability by default. It's convenience and courtesy to current inventory issues.

Whenever the development team associate inventory space as a form of difficulty to battle mechanics for a job, I cringe. If I wanted to utilize Beastmaster's Monster Correlation properly. I'd be carrying 7 stacks of jugs (Beast, Plantoid, Lizard, Vermin, Bird, Aquan and Amorph), 1-2 stacks of pet food, possibly some dawn mulsum, and a stack of pet roborant if I wanted to clear a bunch of status ailments that using augmented Reward won't remove.

Beastmaster is currently the most expensive consumable job, even with Bestial Loyalty. It doesn't matter that Ninjutsu/Ranged Attacks work differently and are used at a faster rate. Beastmaster might not use consumables as quickly but it still adds up fast in cost and requires significantly inventory space.

Other consumable job cost & inventory benefits:
Pouched items
Recycle/Ninja Tool Expertise/Scavenge
Universal Ninja Tools/Trump Card

Beastmaster:
Bestial Loyalty (20 minute timer)

[GoltanaBuukki]

That's the point, Rwolf. SE doesn't want BST to be properly geared and played. They want that job to sit at the bottom and have all sorts of issues. But keep adding Beastial Loyalty (which should be a job trait anyways). Oh yeah, there's no reason for BSTs to have several Dawn Muslims - we want your pets to die fairly quickly, especially if you're being invited to a High-Tier fight.

Sometimes I think they make comments about jobs that they have no idea about.

[Railer]

How about making the leave command reset the call beast timer.

[dasva]

How about making the leave command reset the call beast timer.

And give you your jug back if it was at full hp!

[Railer]

Go ahead and double jug pets hp while your at it.

[dasva]

And stout servant jps. 2% per level

[Malthar]

And eliminate the charge system and have the pet tp when it has 1000+ tp.

[Leonardus]

But keep adding Beastial Loyalty (which should be a job trait anyways).

I like it the way it is. You start with Bestial Loyalty, and then if something goes awry, you still have Call Beast available.

And I'm not sure I'd call Beastmaster "expensive" at this point. With Cooking and Synergy, even if you just lazily buy materials from the Auction House, it's nothing you can't cover by NPCing a few Bahadurs via sparks.

Dasva, I'd totally love Stout Servant JPs. Would be a bit too good, maybe. >.>

[Glamdring]

So I was soloing Dynamis last night to get some more forgottens on my pup to +2 a bunch more relic (as they won't get off their dead asses and reforge the AF3 after over a year), the 2 nights before I was there on my newly 99 drg getting the 20k XP I needed for my relic head, and it came to me that the numbers my pets were doing on the upper tier demons in Dyna-Xarc are EXACTLY the numbers a 119 pet SHOULD be doing on 119 EM prey, it's not OP at all, it's exactly right. The combined DPS and other contributions would make us interchangeable with a monk or Sam in end-game content without removing their viability in groups. SE KNOWS our problem isn't the artificial delay of applying manuvers or having to tell the pet to attack or whatever that keeps us out of Delve, Incursion, etc., it's that even with top gear our DPS falls short because the pet output is too low to close the gaps with other jobs that ARE permitted in end-game.

So my proposal is simple, test a top flight 119 pet in Dynamis on the higher tier prey, then put those numbers into the pet damage output against a 119EM prey damage formula as the solution, and finally run the calculations needed to properly raise stats on ilevel adjustments pets receive to have those numbers yield the same damage on the 119 prey. It doesn't make us OP on 119 prey and while it would make us OP against level 99 prey EVERY job with 119 ilevel is OP against level 99 content. heck, my brd/dnc solos dyn handily in level 109 gear-119 weapon though. And if they say the word "balance" as an excuse not to I swear I'm tempted to try to organize a revolt to get every player with a pet job to refuse to play anything else, maybe even purposely deleveling so other jobs are not available.

[dasva]

And eliminate the charge system and have the pet tp when it has 1000+ tp.

Honestly I prefer it the way it is now given how fast tp gain vs how fast charges come up now that I've merited it and even more so when I start gearing for it... except make all moves only cost 1 charge and of course with that increase the strength of the 1/2 charge ones to be more on par with the 3 (and for that matter make the crappy 3ers more like the good ones lol)

[Railer]

While your at it swap the timers on unleash and run wild and remove the part of run wild where the pet disappears. thanks

[Olor]

soooo.... is it just me or did BST get nothing this update? What happened to making our pets stronger?

[dasva]

No we didn't but this update was incredibly small. Took all of 4 minutes for me to download. There were other things that I think were also supposed to be in this one that I think ended up getting pushed back to feb

[Railer]

I wonder why beastmaster's pets have to be so mysterious. We have no item level on jugs(upon purchase or craft) or on /checkparam stats, nor do we have any idea on base delay or damage on our jugs when we Acquire them. Adding those stats would be somewhat helpful if ever our pets become useful in endgame activities. I mean how messed up would it be if all weapons did not show these stats. I wonder if the dev team despises pet jobs due to the extra work involved when updating them because of the master and pet is double the work for one paid subscription.

[Olor]

No we didn't but this update was incredibly small. Took all of 4 minutes for me to download. There were other things that I think were also supposed to be in this one that I think ended up getting pushed back to feb

I am really exhausted with hoping... but man I sure hope our pet update is at least as good as dagger update because its even more super depressing to play BST now that my THF can do nice weaponskill damage... easily 3-5 times my BST... with worse macros and worse gear and me worse at playing it.

(and yannow, without a huge portion of its white damage nigh unbuffable, and with a fairly desirable job trait...)

I am not griping about THF mind you, I am really glad they got a boost, but if our pets don't get a really good boost after we got shafted on axe I am going to be a very sad penguin

[dasva]

I am really exhausted with hoping... but man I sure hope our pet update is at least as good as dagger update because its even more super depressing to play BST now that my THF can do nice weaponskill damage... easily 3-5 times my BST... with worse macros and worse gear and me worse at playing it.

(and yannow, without a huge portion of its white damage nigh unbuffable, and with a fairly desirable job trait...)

I am not griping about THF mind you, I am really glad they got a boost, but if our pets don't get a really good boost after we got shafted on axe I am going to be a very sad penguin

Well and iirc they said something about putting off pet buffs for bst cause they wanted to try out boost master dmg and along with it 1hd in general. But here's the thing the 1hd ws buff really only buffed swd and dagger. Most of the best club, kat and axe ws barely budged so all the update really did was make it so some of the previously mediocre ws are now almost as good. Oh yay I can use more different ws but my dmg hasn't really increased thanks SE.

[Olor]

They did say they were going to increase pet special skill damage. What I am worried that they may not understand is that it needs to be a boost like dagger got to help us at all. Like yes if we can do big skill chains/closers with our pets then maybe we will have a bit more utility as DDs, but we literally need to be FANTASTIC for it to be worth bringing us because we add so little else.

Keeping in mind of course we don't get enough treasure hunter to make a difference, and our job is harder to gear for (still not enough gear that's great for both master and pet, we lose stats VS other DDs) and a huge part of our white damage is nearly unbuffable and pet accuracy still sucks... it really needs to be a massive boost for it to matter at all. And considering we are the VERY LAST sad broken job to get adjustments... I just really hope they don't screw us over again.




Future beastmaster adjustments
As mentioned previously, the development team is currently working on adjustments that will allow abilities to be separate for pets and monsters. After making this adjustment, we are planning to increase the potency of pet special attacks, enhance the effects of TP modifiers, and give them elemental properties for skill chains.

Additionally, we are currently looking into whether we can increase the pace in which charges can be accumulated. We’ll begin work on this adjustment after we verify if this is possible from a technical standpoint.

With these aforementioned adjustments, it will become possible to perform skill chains with your pet making it possible to deal even higher amounts of damage.

We’d also like to make adjustments to the enmity of Snarl and the flexibility of using different special abilities based on various situations while focusing on the concept that beastmaster is a job that deals damage in tandem with their pet.

After seeing the results of the above adjustments, if there are still aspects that are lacking we will then look into increasing the base stats of pets.
[/list]

[Glamdring]

it's not just our pet's specials that need a boost, it's their regular hits as well. after all the special is only going to happen once every minute at best? but a regular hit is going to be every 2-4 seconds. our DPS is terrible and boosting the master isn't the cure. we are designed as a job where at least half our output is the pet, soloing the thing is supposed to be able to tank-without the use of snarl. but as things are, it can't, and boosting the master only makes it worse because it guarantees that a. we'll take the hate from the pet in a hurry, and b. if we want to force the issue then we can't use ambient pets, we have to use jugs. in end-game party content while I'm not thrilled at not being able to charm I guess I can live with that but solo outside I LIKE being able to charm again, I played 75 levels that way solo and it was ALOT more fun that way, so much more in fact that when the cap was raised to 95 I went back outside abby and did GoV to get every level since, using charmed pets. but bst is NOT supposed to be a "just throw a pet at the mob" job, regardless what the bandwagon beasts may think or want, we should be fighting with our pets. No, I want a true fix to the pets, then you can scale the specials to other job's specials.

[Leonardus]

but bst is NOT supposed to be a "just throw a pet at the mob" job, regardless what the bandwagon beasts may think or want, we should be fighting with our pets.

Definitely, but this is not always ideal or even possible. There's quite a few NMs in Ra'Kaznar/Alluvion Skirmishes for example, where "throwing a pet at it" is the safest thing to do (BST+SMN works great in this regard), because SE made the NMs too ridiculous with their AoEs and status ailments.

I'm not sure what's so fun about Charm. I think SE needs to make it more functional, since the power difference between us and most enemies has changed radically. It just never seems worth the tradeoff in utility and safety to me.

[Olor]

I'm not sure what's so fun about Charm. I think SE needs to make it more functional, since the power difference between us and most enemies has changed radically. It just never seems worth the tradeoff in utility and safety to me.

Honestly I'd be just as happy if they made took away charm, put some 10 gil level 1 jug pets in the game and just balanced us properly.

Yes, I did play the old fashioned way and I even did a number of my thf levels (especially before trusts) using /BST and charmed mobs but what I want is to be able to play this job with others and no one has ever ever wanted us for charm for anything but the most niche situations possible... I want to be a competent dependable DD, charm can die in a fire for all I care.

(BTW I am not advocating for taking away charm, I am just saying it's nearly useless for an endgame bst - so we should be focusing on jugs because that's what we will be using in groups 90+ per cent of time - and more if they sucked less)

[dasva]

it's not just our pet's specials that need a boost, it's their regular hits as well. after all the special is only going to happen once every minute at best?

That wouldn't be best that would be the slowest with a 1 charge move but significantly faster than 2+ charge moves could get. Absolute best right now would be every 40 seconds 45 if you are meleeing and don't want to swap to a gimp weapon. Though with the charge system it ends up averaging a little better. Add on to the fact it says they are making them accumulate faster and making them stronger and give them skillchain properties it might not be too bad. Imagine this you and your pet tp for say 30ish seconds, you use ready and let's say it does 3k dmg, then you use a ws (which one will depend on elements of course but a lot of the axe ws are of similar strength now) for let's say 6k dmg followed by a 8k skillchain. Snarl the hate off rinse and repeat. It might not be the sam non stop skillchaining or the thf super huge ones but would be interesting and possibly good.

As far as just general dps one big thing they could do is well first make that 1 acc jp more like 2-3 and then finally expand them to 30 like they said they would. That would be huge for jugs

[Railer]

I see no need for the pet life timer(time in which jug pet disappears) anymore either. I really don't care for our empyrean or mythic ws being both magical. Ready moves need to do at least 10k damage or more imo.

[Olor]

Ready moves need to do at least 10k damage or more imo.

This. Since our pets can't get buffs and our white damage sucks and the moves are on timers... I mean if SMNs can drop that kind of damage (with skillchain properties) I don't see why we would be restricted in it...

[dasva]

Well we can take advantage of the skillchain properties a bit better... I'd say 3-4k on relevant content (for single charge moves more for higher charge ones though really I think they should just make everything 1 charge) if they all had at least 1 level 2 property and maybe some of them even having a level 3 or some pets having a few lvl 2s so your pet can skillchain with itself maybe setting you up for making double dark or something.

Part of the reason smn drops that kind of dmg is they have a lot of gear for it while bst gets jack in terms of gear that could help ready moves. A fully geared smns bp will do like 3 times what a just satchet one will do but a bst with every bit of pet att and enhance ready is effectively going to do the same thing as one with just an ilvl axe. . Instead of just pumping ready moves should do things like idk make tp matter or maybe +ready dmg or huge +pet attacks comparable to the 200 or so pet mab smns get. That said because the lvl 70 bps have pdif they tend to suck against higher stuff so front what I've seen smns switch to merit bps even on just jp pts so I wouldn't expect any pet physical move to do 10 on things higher level than it... at least until they fix the horrible pet pdif system

[Olor]

Dasva I really appreciate your knowledgeable and thoughtful comments in these discussions! And, generally speaking I really appreciate all you BSTs out there keeping the flame alive and supporting a job we love. Even if the devs don't improve BST - I'm glad that we have such cool, thoughtful and supportive player community.

:D

[Glamdring]

Dasva I really appreciate your knowledgeable and thoughtful comments in these discussions! And, generally speaking I really appreciate all you BSTs out there keeping the flame alive and supporting a job we love. Even if the devs don't improve BST - I'm glad that we have such cool, thoughtful and supportive player community.

:D

courtesy?! wow, you are violating almost every rule of forum etiquette since the invention of trolling. that said, I happen to agree with you, it's nice that we can all talk about our favorite job in a serious, honest, respectful and straight-forward manner.

that said I still want my pet's base DPS upped over mine so it can tank again when I'm soloing dag-nabbit!

ps. what's a dag and how does one nabb it?