No, I want 3 rings at least. [Archive]

Kaeviathan

11-07-2014, 10:54 PM

The list of rewards from completing SoA is released.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/44947-dev1241-The-final-chapter-in-the-Seekers-of-Adoulin-main-scenario-will-be-added.?p=530846#post530846

But there is one problem, you only get to choose 1 out of 12 rings. And I cannot accept to only hold one at a time, and its very likely that 6/12 of those rings will never be used, because its 11 rings too many!

We demand to be able to hold 3 out of the 12 rings. You can even make us pay 300,000 bayld for each one, for a total 900,000! I don't care how it is done, just make us able to hold at least 3 rings.

I will link this thread to other forums to get support. So If any player reads this, spread the word around, voice your opinion and join the cause.

Crevox

11-07-2014, 11:14 PM

Three rings would just be OP. The rings are so strong because you can only use ONE of them, not two. Most casters would get practically everything they want out of getting 2/3 rings; not to mention the problem of getting two refresh rings.

Pick one. I don't think you should get more than one. They wouldn't be nearly as good if they balanced them knowing every player would get 3.

Shirai

11-08-2014, 12:31 AM

3 would indeed be a tad too much.
it should remain something elusive, it qould however be nice if an option was considered to get a second for an ungodly amount of Bayld or something.

As someone that plays jack of all trades I am really torn to pieces by these options.

Selindrile

11-08-2014, 01:06 AM

As someone who plays every job.... I feel like I'm having to choose between my children.

Creelo

11-08-2014, 01:13 AM

I agree with Shirai on this. As much as I'd love really ALL the rings... I do think picking two rings would be fine. Perhaps we could eventually pick a second ring by jumping through some hoops or extra quests or something.

As it is right now with picking only one ring, that'll likely inspire a lot of people to switch rings for 300k Bayld. In turn, this is going to crush the HP Bayld market even more... This is something the dev team may want to look into. Essentially, adding the ability to pick a second ring would definitely help avoid this issue.

Aarahs

11-08-2014, 03:15 AM

With how powerful those rings are, I would only support separating the rings into groups and choosing one from each.

Sapphire

11-08-2014, 03:20 AM

Would come off as a lot less greedy if you went for the "we get two ring slots, can we have two rings?" argument.

Creelo

11-08-2014, 04:06 AM

One ring is enough imho, especially as the Seekers missions have been the shortest and easiest mission series in the game. A lot less CS and running around, and a lot less hard battles too compared to other expansions. The rings are very nice considering what an easy ride the missions were.

I already know which of the battle rings I want, the hard part is choosing that ring over the synthesis ring lol. But I will go for the battle ring in any case.

If you had the ability to pick two rings, you could have both the synthesis ring and your other ring. :P

I don't really understand the opposition to the idea of being able to pick two rings. This is not like previous expansions where you had to pick between 1 of 3 rings, usually with an easy decision of which ring was the overall best. This time, we have twelve rings. All twelve of these rings serve very different purposes for the most part and all of them can be extremely useful given the situations they suit. Despite all of the rings being useful in some way, some of them are just never going to be picked considering the other options. Given the low population of FFXI now, there's often a need to be diverse in the jobs you can play, and this further complicates which ring to pick.

In the end if you could pick two rings, there are still ten rings you are not picking. You are still extremely restricted in what you can pick, but it is no doubt leagues better than simply choosing only one ring.

Malphius

11-08-2014, 04:54 AM

Please stop advocating against your own best interests. I can understand needing to maintain a balance but breaking the rings down into, for example: "Magic" "Physical" and "Misc" would maintain that balance while letting people choose 3 rings. This isn't like when Zilart and CoP were the endgame and people maybe had 2 lv 75 jobs at best. I personally have 17 lv 99 jobs plus crafting as i'm sure many others now do.

Creelo

11-08-2014, 05:04 AM

It sound like it is storyline related though.

We don't know what the last CS are about, but the rings are all named after the various Adoulin Families, so possibly you are allowed to recieve a gift from the treasure-house of one family. And since that is storyline related, it wouldn't work if you went round getting loot from lots of different families lol.

All I know is I worked a lot harder for my Moonshade earring, and the older mission rings too. Those missions took ages and were hard at the time. Seekers missions have been a breeze, so I'm surprised that we even get such awesome rings to choose from at all.

I didn't know two out of twelve was considered to be "a lot." lol

Basically though, you are saying you wouldn't like to have the Synthesis ring as well then? You would rather choose one than pick two?

Demonjustin

11-08-2014, 05:55 AM

I really do despise the way they chose to go with rewards for this expansion... pick one of 12 rings? Really? -_-;

Mefuki

11-08-2014, 06:51 AM

Could you elaborate on why you despise it, Justin?

Demonjustin

11-08-2014, 07:07 AM

I don't like restrictions on content rewards, especially in a day and age where playing multiple jobs has become a norm. I see quite a few of these being great pieces, none of them however are game breaking, and few of them would be truly "overpowered" to allow us to have together. Forcing us to pick only one not only forces us to pick one job or role over another, but it also means we have to yet again do content where a reward may be chosen based on the job most played rather than the job most favored.

For instance, the ring for pets, it looks truly awesome to me for pets, but what are the chances I'd pick that? On another character I highly favor BST, it's practically that character's main job at this point, and yet I doubt I'd pick that ring. No matter how awesome that ring is, it's not viable to pick that ring for the job I like over something that will benefit a wide range of jobs. I'd love to have that BST ring, really would, but thanks to the fact I'm only getting one ring I'd be a fool to pick something I'll only benefit from slightly, only when alone, rather than choose something that will benefit me on multiple jobs and in multiple situations.

I very much see this as similar to the WS Merits. Upon release there were many that sucked, there were many that were fantastic, and most people simply went with the most viable DD job WSs and ignored the rest. It's an attempt to make everyone unique in their own way by allowing us limited choices that will make us stand out. Instead, it implements a handful of things that only 1 in 10 people will bother with while the other 9 in 10 pick the more useful/viable options. Rather than making it a matter of true choice and uniquity it feels more like restriction and conformity almost every time, and thus far, I've yet to ever see them implement a system like this that succeeded. Merits failed(census data points to that), past mission rewards failed(Rajas, Atk/TP Moonshade), and this simply looks to me to be nothing new, just more of the same.

Creelo

11-08-2014, 08:03 AM

And this is (partly) why we can't have nice things.

I don't see how it is ungrateful at all; asking for two rings out of twelve seems perfectly reasonable to me. We are paying customers, a vast majority of us are long-time paying customers. I really don't think it would cause any issue (and in fact would be a great boon to us all) if SE threw us an extra bone this time when trying to decide what ring to pick out of twelve and let us pick two. Considering how long we have stuck with this game, I think we deserve an extra reward this time around. If they were only offering 1 of 3 rings like the previous expansions, I would certainly be singing a different tune; however, they're offering twelve...

Others and myself have already outlined other positives to being able to pick two rings instead of one, but I'll reiterate an important reason. The 300k Bayld cost to switch rings is horrible. That is going to equate to TONS of HP Bayld lost simply because of people switching rings, largely because they could only pick ONE ring. Have you tried working on an Ergon weapon? It's horrible enough as it is with the dwindling population and lack of interest in killing reives, and now they're going to cut into the supply further with this 300k Bayld cost? I'm not saying the 300k Bayld cost would not still occur, but it would occur much less frequently if people were given the option of picking two rings.

There's literally no cons to picking two rings instead of one, yet some still would rather not. It's illogical and ultimately detrimental.

Raka

11-08-2014, 10:04 AM

This feels like a hidden reference to Lord of the Rings somehow...
So many rings, and man desires more power, so obviously they want more rings.

Now we will find out another ring was made...one ring to rule them all..!

Ok, had to be done. I had my personal laugh. :3

On a more serious note... I can't decide for the life of me which ring is the most beneficial right now.

Kaeviathan

11-08-2014, 10:33 AM

Fine, I'll settle for two rings. But that synthesis ring shouldn't have to be picked out from the rest.

Zarchery

11-08-2014, 10:37 PM

Creelo

11-09-2014, 12:59 AM

Why 3? Why not 4? Or 6? Or all 12?

It's funny because 3 days ago these rings didn't exist and everyone was fine with it. Now that they do, the sense of entitlement kicks in because something cool exists. You people are like a spoiled child who gets offered a fabulous toy, but then pouts and says "No I wanted the whole set!"

Multiple rings is totally precedent breaking. Every mission line has resulted in 1 reward. Wings of the Goddess, Shantotto Ascension, Crystaline Prophecy, and Moogle Kupo d'etat offered a range of variety similar to what's being offered with these rings thanks to the customizable augments system. Nobody ever complained before.

While I do feel the OP should change the tone and request in his post (down to 2 rings, 3 rings I feel is one too many). I do feel it's a bad comparison to compare these twelve rings to the customizable pieces of equipment we saw from the add-on scenarios. If we could actually customize our SoA ring, things would be much better, at least for me. Personally, I could drop the useless Singing/Blue Magic Skill/Refresh+1 on Renaye and drop the Quick Cast +3% on Weatherspoon, and finally add the Geo Skill +10 to the rest of Weatherspoon. The end piece: Macc+10, FC+5, Geo Skill+10, Light Ele Att +10, and my Geo char would be absolutely stoked and yet her other jobs would also benefit from the ring (while they couldn't really before with just Renaye).

I think asking for two rings out of the twelve, or the eventual ability to get a second ring, is absolutely reasonable. Not to mention, SE has already broken tradition by offering twelve rings; this has never been done before for an expansion reward. I don't see why they can't break tradition again and let us be able to pick two.

Numquam

11-09-2014, 01:31 AM

Minikom

11-09-2014, 03:00 AM

3/12 isnt bad idea, just hope they let us get not just 1 maybe 2 or 3, use bayld to buy or something special,
what is good on those hands? i dont seee nothing special

Afania

11-09-2014, 04:24 AM

We are paying customers, a vast majority of us are long-time paying customers. I really don't think it would cause any issue

Making a choice is hard, when you can't make the choice, play the "I pay therefore SE should listen" card.

Malphius

11-09-2014, 06:11 AM

Making a choice is hard, when you can't make the choice, play the "I pay therefore SE should listen" card.

That makes no sense at all and you are clearly not understanding what Creelo or anyone else is saying.

Stompa

11-09-2014, 06:27 AM

Malphius

11-09-2014, 06:36 AM

Say you have all jobs 99 and all those jobs are ilvl119 gear.

Just because you play multiple jobs at a high standard, doesn't mean you don't have a personal favourite job. So just pick the ring that best suits that personal favourite job. After you obtain that ring, your other jobs are not suddenly become gimp, they will still be 119 standard. It just means that your favourite job will have a nice ring, an item that shows the world that you picked this ring for your favourite job.

My favorite jobs are WHM and SAM. It's too bad I can't pick a ring for each class. Which like most others are saying, makes very little sense. The only argument against it is "When lv cap was 75 and you could only pick from 4 rings, you could only pick one". It's an extremely thin argument.

Malphius

11-09-2014, 06:53 AM

Malphius

11-09-2014, 07:16 AM

Also I don't agree with the 1/3 and 1/12 stuff.

Numbers aren't subjective.

Creelo

11-09-2014, 07:40 AM

Making a choice is hard, when you can't make the choice, play the "I pay therefore SE should listen" card.

I would like to think that SE would aim to please its long-standing FFXI player-base, yes. And I see absolutely nothing wrong with that "card" anyways lol

We are ultimately what is supporting FFXI, right now. You get that, right? We are the people that are paying for this service and we provide the population within the game. Without us, SE wouldn't be acquiring money off of FFXI, nor would FFXI exist anymore, literally making us essential to SE's business model. I think that gives us more than a right for SE to listen to us closely.

In any case, things aren't going to change likely since the update is so near, and by this point, I'm over it. However, there is still a lot of potential for a side quest to be implemented (perhaps involving a more challenging series of BCNM fights against the big baddies of SoA) that could allow us to eventually pick a second ring. Otherwise, most of these rings will rot from not being picked and much more Bayld will be spent on changing rings, weakening the HP Bayld market even further. If there are people out there that are still truly against this and the idea of getting a second ring, then I really don't know what to say to them.

Malphius

11-09-2014, 07:48 AM

I can't believe you expect good service and results when paying for a service Creelo. I've only given SE about $1,600 since the game came out.

Afania

11-09-2014, 09:44 AM

I would like to think that SE would aim to please its long-standing FFXI player-base, yes. And I see absolutely nothing wrong with that "card" anyways lol

We are ultimately what is supporting FFXI, right now. You get that, right? We are the people that are paying for this service and we provide the population within the game. Without us, SE wouldn't be acquiring money off of FFXI, nor would FFXI exist anymore, literally making us essential to SE's business model. I think that gives us more than a right for SE to listen to us closely.

In any case, things aren't going to change likely since the update is so near, and by this point, I'm over it. However, there is still a lot of potential for a side quest to be implemented (perhaps involving a more challenging series of BCNM fights against the big baddies of SoA) that could allow us to eventually pick a second ring. Otherwise, most of these rings will rot from not being picked and much more Bayld will be spent on changing rings, weakening the HP Bayld market even further. If there are people out there that are still truly against this and the idea of getting a second ring, then I really don't know what to say to them.

I'm not against the idea of 2nd ring, but I'm against "I'm paying $$ thus SE should listen to everything I said and change design to however I want" mentality.

SE forced us to make a choice this game, this is part of gameplay, so only a few selected jobs of yours will be stronger. The goal of picking 1 ring is to make you CHOOSE. I'm not sure why's paying money even relevant in this discussion.

By your logic I can just write to SE "Please hand me every gear in this game and put them in my delivery box so I don't have to grind for them, that makes me happy and you're supposed to make me happy cuz I'm paying $$"

You're a paying customer, right. So you have every right to complain about their service, such as payment issues, customer service, and so on. But complaining about a design that forced you to make a choice? I don't know what to say.

I suppose making a choice is just that hard isn't it?

Do I WANT a 2nd ring? Yes. But if the game designer only want the player to have 1 ring, then I'll just make my choice. It won't make me feel unhappy, I'll just go ahead and....make a choice like how the designer want me to.

Afania

11-09-2014, 09:54 AM

Tell that to Rajas and Epona's.

I didn't miss your point I just don't agree with it. I think most people have several jobs and classes that they want to play and they enjoy switching back and forth between them. I know I do. I know I NEED to, to get things done.

I've come up with a great way to keep this with in the realm of everyones traditional views. When you could only pick 1 or 4 rings, you are getting 25% of the total reward offerings. Choosing 3 of 12 will also let you select 25% of the reward offerings. There. Fixed. Everyone wins.

You can switch your jobs back and forth even if you can only choose 1 ring, idk why's job change system relevant in this discussion.

The reward for WoTG has multiple combinations, so it's more than 1/4 of choice.

The choice in CoP and WoTG favors 1 choice a lot more than the others, so in the end the players don't really need to make a choice.

I like the fact that more rings has a use so players actually have to think twice before making a choice. Also AFAIK most rings aren't as game changing as moonshade, it's not the end of the world if you don't have the other 11 rings.

HP bayld supply isn't a good excuse, they can make it drop from other content or something, or make it purchasable by plasm.

Demonjustin

11-09-2014, 12:05 PM

By your logic I can just write to SE "Please hand me every gear in this game and put them in my delivery box so I don't have to grind for them, that makes me happy and you're supposed to make me happy cuz I'm paying $$"Must you conflate every issue with the idea that it's somehow equally as viable a premise as asking for every piece of gear to be handed out to you? Really?

Malphius

11-09-2014, 12:54 PM

Well you win the Cherrypicked Quote of the year award. Congratulations!

Thanks! What do I win? Debate with reasonable people?

So, a large number of new jobs to choose from to be your main job = large number of new rings to choose from for your main job to use.

People don't have "main jobs" anymore. These aren't the old days of grinding out exp.

The reward for WoTG has multiple combinations, so it's more than 1/4 of choice.

What are the rules here for judging how we don't break tradition? You guys just toss stuff against the wall to see what sticks. The earring reward system was no where near the CoP or ToAU reward system nor should it have to be and nor should the new reward system be. The game evolves, simple as that which is why it's perfectly acceptable and reasonable to expect to pick a few rings from the TWELVE they just created. Basing the future on the past is a ridiculous notion.

You can switch your jobs back and forth even if you can only choose 1 ring, idk why's job change system relevant in this discussion.

It's relevant because people have several job classes now. Again, nobody has a main job anymore. The game mechanics have ensured that. Being offered a choice of 3 classes of rings IE: Physical, Magical & Misc. and letting you choose 1 from each would maintain balance and fit the reality of todays game play.

But if the game designer only want the player to have 1 ring, then I'll just make my choice. It won't make me feel unhappy, I'll just go ahead and....make a choice like how the designer want me to.

I guess we can get rid of the community reps now since you're speaking for the developers. You have no idea what they want or have really considered. How many times has SE implemented new content, then almost immediately had to backtrack and fix it to fit the reality of what the community expects or wants? All the time. In fact its the reason we even have community reps now. SE ignored and punished it's fanbase and they lost a ton of subscribers. I'm glad they listen now and want our feedback. The game has gotten much better since they started listening.

HP bayld supply isn't a good excuse, they can make it drop from other content or something, or make it purchasable by plasm.

So asking to choose 3 rings is excessive but expecting SE to create and implement new content to create HP bayld isn't?

Do I WANT a 2nd ring? Yes.

Then ASK for it!

I'll just go ahead and....make a choice like how the designer want me to.

What a good girl.

Raydeus

11-09-2014, 01:10 PM

We demand...

...join the cause.

"We"?
"Cause"?
Seriously?

The heck are you talking about? But since you asked for us to voice our opinion then I'll say:

NO THANKS, I DO NOT WANT MORE THAN ONE RING AS A REWARD.

Comeatmebro

11-09-2014, 02:51 PM

-reward system that applies to essentially everyone and will get people interested in the missions
-method to change them right off the bat that can be done with relatively little effort
(anyone crying about bayld: 10 min running 5 courier imprims 6x = 24 days and an hour total of effort to get 300k bayld, not any worse than CoP ring condition)

anyone who isn't satisfied with this doesn't want to be satisfied, pretty clear

Afania

11-09-2014, 03:10 PM

Must you conflate every issue with the idea that it's somehow equally as viable a premise as asking for every piece of gear to be handed out to you? Really?

Because this issue is clearly "I want this gear, but SE won't let me have it, please let me have it because I'm paying"

Not sure what's the difference. If the game designer just doesn't want the player to get the item....just don't get it?

Afania

11-09-2014, 03:20 PM

Basing the future on the past is a ridiculous notion.

Hmmmm I don't think I'm the one basing the future on the past? Lol.

Tell that to Rajas and Epona's.

I didn't miss your point I just don't agree with it. I think most people have several jobs and classes that they want to play and they enjoy switching back and forth between them. I know I do. I know I NEED to, to get things done.

I've come up with a great way to keep this with in the realm of everyones traditional views. When you could only pick 1 or 4 rings, you are getting 25% of the total reward offerings. Choosing 3 of 12 will also let you select 25% of the reward offerings. There. Fixed. Everyone wins.

It's relevant because people have several job classes now. Again, nobody has a main job anymore. The game mechanics have ensured that. Being offered a choice of 3 classes of rings IE: Physical, Magical & Misc. and letting you choose 1 from each would maintain balance and fit the reality of todays game play.

So, if you don't have the ring for your job, you can't play your job anymore? I'm confused.

So asking to choose 3 rings is excessive but expecting SE to create and implement new content to create HP bayld isn't?

You can't choose 3 rings is not an "issue" that needs to be fixed. Ergon weapon costs 3 times more than mythic is clearly....not very logical. Since they're both same weapon class so their cost should be around the same.

I'm not sure why are you comparing them.

Then ASK for it!

I want an empy afterglow but I can't get it, can SE give it to me? I'm paying $$ so it's SE's job to make me happy.

AFTERGLOW GIMME GIMME GIMME.

What a good girl.

I'm just gonna change ring when I need to, lol.

Malphius

11-09-2014, 03:49 PM

Afania,

It's pretty obvious that English isn't your first language and probably why your comprehension on so many things that are being said is so poor. I'm clearly wasting my time.

I want an empy afterglow but I can't get it, can SE give it to me? I'm paying $$ so it's SE's job to make me happy.

AFTERGLOW GIMME GIMME GIMME.

Can't reason with a troll.

As for Stompa,

You can play how you like but you're in the minority.

Protey

11-09-2014, 03:51 PM

Again, nobody has a main job anymore. The game mechanics have ensured that. Being offered a choice of 3 classes of rings IE: Physical, Magical & Misc. and letting you choose 1 from each would maintain balance and fit the reality of todays game play.

first person i've ever heard of say that people don't have main jobs anymore. EVERYONE i know puts more effort into one job more than any other. Yes people play multiple jobs, but that doesn't mean they don't have a main job. And game mechanics has nothing to do with it. Nothing in the game mechanics requires you to change jobs mid battle. I think you meant: with the declining population people need to have multiple jobs geared and skilled well in order to be able to complete content.

I find it funny that people are complaining about not being able to get more than one ring. It's like a spoiled child getting something, but it's never enough. Some people aren't happy no matter what. But SE even catered to people like you, they made it so your choice isn't permanent. One can easily make a choice and change it later on. It's not like getting bayld is hard or even that time consuming. As for concerns for HP-bayld: not everyone trades their bayld for HP-bayld. And if you want HP-bayld so badly, go get it yourself instead of relying on the community to get it for you and buying it from them. I'll probably get backlash from that last comment, something about "o woe is me, i don't have the time to go farm bayld/HP-bayld". Well ergon weapons aren't required to play the game. They are "nice to have". If you want the item, go work for it. And if you say this is a game, it shouldn't be work, realize this: That's what makes a game, a game worth playing. If everything is just handed to you, it stops being a game and is more like TV. The very thought of people having ultimate gear without having to work for them makes me sick. Can't stand people like that. If anyone who is reading this is an instant gratification person (I know some of you are) then please stop playing this game and stop posting. I don't want you ruining this game for me.

tl;dr: suck it up. make a choice of which ring you want and drive on.

Afania

11-09-2014, 03:53 PM

Afania,

It's pretty obvious that English isn't your first language and probably why your comprehension on so many things that are being said is so poor. I'm clearly wasting my time.

Can't reason with a troll.

As for Stompa,

You can play how you like but you're in the minority.

Malphius: If you don't agree with my opinion, you are a troll with bad reading comprehension and you're in the minority.

Don't need superb reading comprehension to understand that you're making a big fuss about getting extra rings, while personal attack/act aggressive toward anyone disagreeing with your opinion lol.

Afania

11-09-2014, 04:00 PM

first person i've ever heard of say that people don't have main jobs anymore. EVERYONE i know puts more effort into one job more than any other. Yes people play multiple jobs, but that doesn't mean they don't have a main job. And game mechanics has nothing to do with it. Nothing in the game mechanics requires you to change jobs mid battle. I think you meant: with the declining population people need to have multiple jobs geared and skilled well in order to be able to complete content.

I find it funny that people are complaining about not being able to get more than one ring. It's like a spoiled child getting something, but it's never enough. Some people aren't happy no matter what. But SE even catered to people like you, they made it so your choice isn't permanent. One can easily make a choice and change it later on. It's not like getting bayld is hard or even that time consuming. As for concerns for HP-bayld: not everyone trades their bayld for HP-bayld. And if you want HP-bayld so badly, go get it yourself instead of relying on the community to get it for you and buying it from them. I'll probably get backlash from that last comment, something about "o woe is me, i don't have the time to go farm bayld/HP-bayld". Well ergon weapons aren't required to play the game. They are "nice to have". If you want the item, go work for it. And if you say this is a game, it shouldn't be work, realize this: That's what makes a game, a game worth playing. If everything is just handed to you, it stops being a game and is more like TV. The very thought of people having ultimate gear without having to work for them makes me sick. Can't stand people like that. If anyone who is reading this is an instant gratification person (I know some of you are) then please stop playing this game and stop posting. I don't want you ruining this game for me.

tl;dr: suck it up. make a choice of which ring you want and drive on.

The point is that being able to make a choice makes this game more interesting. Even for player with 1 job, it's still hard to make the choice. I only play 1 job mostly, and even then I need multiple rings. It's certainly more interesting to have "which ring to pick for X job" discussion on the forum, instead of just complete the mission and pick a ring that's obviously the best, such as Rajas.

I'm glad that SE force us to make a choice now, instead of "if you don't pick this you're doing wrong" like CoP, DM and WoTG. The fact is that we've been making a choice since DM, if this is an issue ppl would quit 10 years ago.

Demonjustin

11-09-2014, 08:35 PM

Because this issue is clearly "I want this gear, but SE won't let me have it, please let me have it because I'm paying"

Not sure what's the difference. If the game designer just doesn't want the player to get the item....just don't get it?Such a wonderful show of just how awesomely the point is missed. The point is to allow more than 1 of 12 items to be obtained. I don't see anyone arguing this has to be done for free or via the mission that grants the original. In fact, many times I've seen arguments about this over the last few days people have talked about using the 300k Bayld replacement price as a simple price tag for additional rings, possibly even 3M Bayld for additional rings. That, isn't asking for hand outs, that's asking for changes to shitty design.

If asking for a change to this design of only obtaining 1 of 12 rings at a time is by itself comparable to "hand me everything I want cause I said so" then I fail to see how any suggestion couldn't be held to the same standard. The thing is, you use this same stupid argument in so many threads it disgusts me, it's not a valid reason for not doing things, it's a simple excuse as to why anything shouldn't be done that doesn't even make sense because it's not even close to what's being asked for. You're comparing apples to oranges and then expecting everyone to accept oranges as being outrageous since everyone knows that apples are outrageous themselves.

Zarchery

11-09-2014, 11:10 PM

I have 8 of the 22 jobs at level 99-- MNK WAR WHM BLM THF BRD BST SAM. MNK and WHM are my favorites that I put the most effort into gearing. THF I pull out if I wanna farm Dynamis, BLM sometimes if there's something that requires magic damage (I like it for Wildskeeper Reives especially Yumcax). SAM I just sort of play around with sometimes because I like the super fast TP build. BST I used to use for solo stuff but since Adoulin came out my MNK has been better so I retired the job. WAR I use rarely and only if I need to red proc something in Abyssea.

So you could say that MNK and WHM are my main jobs. Now I have to pick 1 out of 12 rings for one of those 2 jobs, because they don't really overlap and no ring will really be useful to both. So what I could do is puff up my chest, throw a tantrum, and say "I'm a paying customer! Gimme rings for both jobs!!" Or I could do what I am doing, act like an adult, and get one ring for one of the jobs (probably WHM; I am loving the look of that Woltaris Ring as a replacement for my Serket Ring) and stick with the current ring combination I have on MNK. Because it has been fine so far, and it doesn't instantly become no good just because, say, Karieyeh Ring now exists.

Protey

11-10-2014, 12:06 AM

Such a wonderful show of just how awesomely the point is missed. The point is to allow more than 1 of 12 items to be obtained. I don't see anyone arguing this has to be done for free or via the mission that grants the original. In fact, many times I've seen arguments about this over the last few days people have talked about using the 300k Bayld replacement price as a simple price tag for additional rings, possibly even 3M Bayld for additional rings. That, isn't asking for hand outs, that's asking for changes to shitty design.

If asking for a change to this design of only obtaining 1 of 12 rings at a time is by itself comparable to "hand me everything I want cause I said so" then I fail to see how any suggestion couldn't be held to the same standard. The thing is, you use this same stupid argument in so many threads it disgusts me, it's not a valid reason for not doing things, it's a simple excuse as to why anything shouldn't be done that doesn't even make sense because it's not even close to what's being asked for. You're comparing apples to oranges and then expecting everyone to accept oranges as being outrageous since everyone knows that apples are outrageous themselves.

I think what Afania is getting at is that all of you are not wanting to choose between apples or oranges... you want apples and oranges! The design isn't "shitty" as you put it. It's a great design. If you didn't notice, SE has a habit of saying "you can have this, but at the cost of this". If you have everything things cease to be interesting (which is why I don't like instant gratification people either). The thing that makes games (and life for that matter) interesting is having to make choices. But the thing is... the choice isn't permanent. If it was permanent, now THAT would be interesting; having to actually make a permanent strategic decision.... the thought is titillating. That would separate the real gamers from those who are here for just a little entertainment.

Kincard

11-10-2014, 12:09 AM

I'm all for limiting player decisions at times, since I like that sort of thing in an RPG.

I don't think it'd be bad to let us choose 2 or even 3 rings out of 12 though, given that the choice is usually between 3.

Whatever the case I know what I'm probably getting if I'm only allowed to have one (can we have some clarification if the Vocane Ring description is accurate, because it says something totally different in Japanese). I just don't think it'd be bad to let us have more than that. These rings are all very good but they arn't things that are going to make or break your jobs so I don't see any reason to be dramatic about it if they decide to stick with the one ring thing though.

Afania

11-10-2014, 01:41 AM

Such a wonderful show of just how awesomely the point is missed. The point is to allow more than 1 of 12 items to be obtained. I don't see anyone arguing this has to be done for free or via the mission that grants the original. In fact, many times I've seen arguments about this over the last few days people have talked about using the 300k Bayld replacement price as a simple price tag for additional rings, possibly even 3M Bayld for additional rings. That, isn't asking for hand outs, that's asking for changes to shitty design.

If asking for a change to this design of only obtaining 1 of 12 rings at a time is by itself comparable to "hand me everything I want cause I said so" then I fail to see how any suggestion couldn't be held to the same standard. The thing is, you use this same stupid argument in so many threads it disgusts me, it's not a valid reason for not doing things, it's a simple excuse as to why anything shouldn't be done that doesn't even make sense because it's not even close to what's being asked for. You're comparing apples to oranges and then expecting everyone to accept oranges as being outrageous since everyone knows that apples are outrageous themselves.

Because picking 1 ring out of 12 is not a shitty design IMO, I see nothing wrong with it. And I don't think "I'm a paying customer" is anywhere close to being a valid reason to ask for a design change. If you don't agree with the design, just say "this design could have been better" instead of "I'm paying, SE should listen to me, or else the game would die if SE doesn't listen". That's just not a good way to express opinion about game design.

Byrth

11-10-2014, 01:47 AM

I will probably go with Weatherspoon personally. It annoys me that I won't be able to have Orvail and Shneddick, as those are kind of "quality of life" rings, but I guess I'll have to make due.

If I was given carte blanche access to all rings, I'd be willing to store:
* Weatherspoon Ring - Fast Cast for all jobs and MAcc+10. This brings me up over 40% fast cast on my light armor jobs like THF and DNC for Utsusemi. Ichi will cast faster than ever! Pretty great.
* Orvail Ring - HQ Rate +1%
* Shneddick Ring - Movement speed... I hope this stacks with other forms of movement speed. Otherwise I wouldn't get it.
* Renaye ring - Refresh and 10 singing/geomancy skill!
* Haverton Ring - For Dancer solo
* Janniston ring - Best cure ring.
* Kariyeh Ring - I would essentially only be using this for Atonement, but I'd still keep it around.
* Vocane Ring - I do not know whether or not I'd use this. It depends on the translation.

I wouldn't be willing to store the other rings and wouldn't pick them up even if I could. So I'd personally be willing to hold 6~8/12 rings and I'm fairly satisfied with just Weatherspoon. If I could pick a second, I'd probably pick Orvail. If I did more Tier 0 synthing, I'd consider picking Orvail over Weatherspoon. As it is, though, I don't.

dasva

11-10-2014, 02:30 AM

Because picking 1 ring out of 12 is not a shitty design IMO

In this specific case it is. In another game, or a long time ago or even different types of rings maybe not. But this game is geared to playing multiple jobs, is in the end of it's years where it is pretty much expected you play multiple jobs (don't give me that I only play one job BS. A few might but that is few and a lot might put more effort into one but this will end up pigeon holing them and SE has been going out of it's way to make multi job gear options all around and expanding merits designing content that requires different sorts of tactics etc )and these rings are effectively only good for 1-2 jobs each. Heck a couple of them aren't even good for jobs and only would be picked by people who never actually fight anything. Even previous mission rewards were smart enough to only issue a few options that were a lot more general like tank/melee/mage rewards so that they would be useful to more jobs. Or made some of them really crap so there would be fewer really good options.

At the very least they should offer you the ability to swap rings for a reasonable amount (300k is kinda ridiculous). And from an SE prespective doing something like you can get extra rings at some absurd balyd cost like say 5 million would not really disrupt the game (not many would actually do that for more than 1-2 more let alone quickly) but would be a simple time sink to introduce

Malphius

11-10-2014, 02:46 AM

"I'm paying, SE should listen to me, or else the game would die if SE doesn't listen". That's just not a good way to express opinion about game design.

You're fixated on that one topic. So much so that you're dismissing everything else.

first person i've ever heard of say that people don't have main jobs anymore.

Nobody asks what your "main job" is. Now they as "what REM jobs do you have" or "what 119 jobs do you have". The expectation is that you have several very well geared jobs to participate in events with.

So what I could do is puff up my chest, throw a tantrum, and say "I'm a paying customer! Gimme rings for both jobs!!" Or I could do what I am doing, act like an adult, and get one ring for one of the jobs

No one is doing that. Someone is twisting the issue into that but that's not the argument for selecting 3 rings. This also isn't a negative criticism of SE or the development team. They do a great job creating a fun game. There's just opportunity to get more use out of the great rings they've created while at the same time maintaining a balance of game play and catering to the realities of todays game.

I find it funny that people are complaining about not being able to get more than one ring. It's like a spoiled child getting something, but it's never enough. Some people aren't happy no matter what. But SE even catered to people like you, they made it so your choice isn't permanent.

I'm far from the only one that didn't want reward choices to be permanent. There were plenty of "people like me" that asked SE to change it which they did. Just because they asked! How is it being a spoiled child when you ask for a change to the game? Also a service i've been paying for since the release. I think people have every right to ask for anything they want. It must be nice to be the only people on the Official Forum to never ask SE to change anything.

I only play 1 job mostly

I still play PUP for 95% of my online FFXI time.

The two people making the most noise against multiple rings only play 1 job. There you have it.

Folks, it's not an insult to Square or the developers to ask for a change to the game especially when there is plenty of merit to do so. This game is a business and their business is to offer a service. It's not personal and they don't take it personal. If they had announced the end rewards and you could select up to 3 rings, would the same people be making all this noise against it? Would they be demanding to receive only 1 ring or is this more about whatever the development team does is the way it must be and should be and I don't want to offend the company. I have a feeling it's the later.

Afania

11-10-2014, 02:48 AM

In this specific case it is. In another game, or a long time ago or even different types of rings maybe not. But this game is geared to playing multiple jobs, is in the end of it's years where it is pretty much expected you play multiple jobs

You can still play your mage fairly well if you pick DD ring and vice versa. It's only a shitty design if you want to maximize all jobs.

Not allowing the player to maximize ALL jobs is not a shitty design in this game, it's been the design goal for ages. You get merit point system, WS limitation, and you have to make choice for all mission reward as well. Just because Rajas/Suppa/TP bonus moonshade are slightly more powerful than other options, doesn't mean SE didn't force the player to make choice before Adoulin exists.

So why complain now? Why don't you guys complain when SE introduce DM and merit point system? Isn't it obvious that the design goal of this game doesn't allow players to maximize all jobs?

Afania

11-10-2014, 02:56 AM

These rings are all very good but they arn't things that are going to make or break your jobs so I don't see any reason to be dramatic about it if they decide to stick with the one ring thing though.

This. I bet when next ilv come some of them would be replaced and nobody would care anymore. Ppl want more than 2 rings so much to even go out and personal attack anyone disagreeing the opinion is just too over dramatic lol.

Byrth

11-10-2014, 02:56 AM

To be fair, I've complained about the merit point system several times. You could easily make the same argument here that I made there.

None of these rings are as important as uncapping Tier 2 job specific merits, though, so I'd rather not fight this fight.

dasva

11-10-2014, 03:28 AM

You can still play your mage fairly well if you pick DD ring and vice versa. It's only a shitty design if you want to maximize all jobs.

Not allowing the player to maximize ALL jobs is not a shitty design in this game, it's been the design goal for ages. You get merit point system, WS limitation, and you have to make choice for all mission reward as well. Just because Rajas/Suppa/TP bonus moonshade are slightly more powerful than other options, doesn't mean SE didn't force the player to make choice before Adoulin exists.

So why complain now? Why don't you guys complain when SE introduce DM and merit point system? Isn't it obvious that the design goal of this game doesn't allow players to maximize all jobs?

Since when was more than 1-2 all? I can functionally fully merit over half a dozen jobs. I mean if you want to argue something I wasn't saying I recommend just quoting yourself and arguing back and forth with yourself instead.

And those weren't slightly more powerful. They were vastly more powerful and yes that is a type of force.

Also I've complained about merits before... and lo and behold they have raised limits several times over the years... almost like as the years have gone on they have wanted players to maximize more jobs. As far as DM again it was suppa or bust so the only complaint was the others sucked for the most part.... though there was the trick of getting 2 some people did.

Malphius

11-10-2014, 07:57 AM

I still play PUP for 95% of my online FFXI time.

That means that 18 days out of the year, you're on another job and 347 you're on pup. I'd call that only playing 1 job.

The problem with allowing players to buy more rings with huge amoungs of bayld or loldollars, is that the ring is a one-time gift given to you by the storyline Heroine. Arciela is not a shopkeeper who sells rings. She is a Princess, who gave you a ring because of your special friendship with her and the work you did to protect the kingdom. She does allow you to exchange the single ring for another by paying a fee, presumably the fee is because she has to ask another family to get a ring from their Treasure-House, and she will do that because she is your friend. But she is not an Ebay ring shop. That is Lore, and it means a lot to me, personally.

I didn't know the last missions had been implemented. Congratulations on beating the expansion and choosing your ring a day before update. I wish I had the beta version of the last mission pack so I knew everything that was going to happen and so that I too could conjecture wildly at the mechanics of the implementation.

The problem with your statement about lore is that SE can make the lore anything they want. For example. "Thank you adventurer for helping me beat Evil Bad Guy X. Please select 1 ring from my collection as a reward". Now take that and just change it up a bit and ""Thank you adventurer for helping me beat Evil Bad Guy X. Please select 3 rings from my collection as a reward". In the case of purchasing Ploh Trishbahk you speak to him "For your continuing and monumental efforts to keep our kingdom safe, we have been authorized to present you with another ring from the royal collection, however we need X amount of bayld as proof of your deeds"

That was about the easiest thing ever and it can still mean a lot to you AND help you get off of just PUP once and a while.

Afania

11-10-2014, 07:58 AM

Since when was more than 1-2 all? I can functionally fully merit over half a dozen jobs. I mean if you want to argue something I wasn't saying I recommend just quoting yourself and arguing back and forth with yourself instead.

And those weren't slightly more powerful. They were vastly more powerful and yes that is a type of force.

Also I've complained about merits before... and lo and behold they have raised limits several times over the years... almost like as the years have gone on they have wanted players to maximize more jobs. As far as DM again it was suppa or bust so the only complaint was the others sucked for the most part.... though there was the trick of getting 2 some people did.

Can you name 1 ring that's "vastly more powerful"? Maybe snapshot +6 could be if snapshot cap isn't how we assume it is. Moonshade is like a thousand more dmg for every WS in 1 slot, I don't see any ring as OP as that.

As far as DM goes the original goal was to force the players to make a choice as well. It's just that one choice was slightly better than others, so most players made the best choice easily. That doesn't mean their original goal does not want the players to choose. They just made a bad decision on the other options.

If one adoulin ring is a much better choice than others, maybe this thread won't exist, lol.

Zekander

11-10-2014, 09:59 AM

I would be happy with just 2 rings. Mostly because, as it has been mentioned, several of them have QoL stats.

If they would separate the rings into two categories; combat rings and non-combat rings, and let you choose one from each category that would be fantastic.

dasva

11-10-2014, 11:10 AM

Can you name 1 ring that's "vastly more powerful"? Maybe snapshot +6 could be if snapshot cap isn't how we assume it is. Moonshade is like a thousand more dmg for every WS in 1 slot, I don't see any ring as OP as that.

As far as DM goes the original goal was to force the players to make a choice as well. It's just that one choice was slightly better than others, so most players made the best choice easily. That doesn't mean their original goal does not want the players to choose. They just made a bad decision on the other options.

If one adoulin ring is a much better choice than others, maybe this thread won't exist, lol.

We were talking about previous rewards where you didn't have a hard time choosing because of power differences. So yeah again you're arguing against me with stuff I wasn't saying. Also it isn't adding 1000 dmg to almost every ws unless you are counting mobs with dmg weaknesses. It's good but not that good. Not even counting all the ones that don't have dmg modified by tp

And again it wasn't slightly better. It was the hands down choice if you had any job that could ever use it regardless of your other jobs. Saying it was slightly better is like saying tp bonus is slightly better than regain earrings

And yeah that was the entire point I was making. Before there wasn't such a wide range of real choices to make. That is the entire reason for the uproar this time. If 11 of the rings were sidegrade material there wouldn't be a push for more

Protey

11-10-2014, 12:24 PM

I don't know what world where logical argumentation rules don't exist you come from Malphius, but I will try and help you understand:

You're fixated on that one topic. So much so that you're dismissing everything else.
Just because someone fixates on one topic (or subtopic of the whole) doesn't invalidate the fixater's argument; until that argument is proven false, that argument negates the possibility of your argument being valid.

first person i've ever heard of say that people don't have main jobs anymore. EVERYONE i know puts more effort into one job more than any other. Yes people play multiple jobs, but that doesn't mean they don't have a main job.

Nobody asks what your "main job" is. Now they as "what REM jobs do you have" or "what 119 jobs do you have". The expectation is that you have several very well geared jobs to participate in events with.
Not asking what someone's main job is =/= them not having a main job.

I find it funny that people are complaining about not being able to get more than one ring. It's like a spoiled child getting something, but it's never enough. Some people aren't happy no matter what. But SE even catered to people like you, they made it so your choice isn't permanent.

I'm far from the only one that didn't want reward choices to be permanent. There were plenty of "people like me" that asked SE to change it which they did. Just because they asked! How is it being a spoiled child when you ask for a change to the game? Also a service i've been paying for since the release. I think people have every right to ask for anything they want. It must be nice to be the only people on the Official Forum to never ask SE to change anything.

Asking for a change =/= asking for more. Change is already having something and altering it. You are asking for more than what is given. So in this case... asking to be able to get a different ring/earring by dropping them and getting another.... that is change. Getting more than one is not change... that is getting more than what is given and so is why I called all of you spoiled children.

Folks, it's not an insult to Square or the developers to ask for a change to the game especially when there is plenty of merit to do so. This game is a business and their business is to offer a service. It's not personal and they don't take it personal. If they had announced the end rewards and you could select up to 3 rings, would the same people be making all this noise against it? Would they be demanding to receive only 1 ring or is this more about whatever the development team does is the way it must be and should be and I don't want to offend the company. I have a feeling it's the later.

If they had only introduced 3 rings like CoP, say Woltaris, Karieyh, and Vocane, would you be making all this noise against it? If so, why don't you make a big hooplah about not being able to get refresh moonshade earring and TP moonshade earring.

Malphius

11-10-2014, 01:06 PM

I don't know what world where logical argumentation rules don't exist you come from Malphius, but I will try and help you understand:

Thanks for your assistance. I don't think its needed though.

Just because someone fixates on one topic (or subtopic of the whole) doesn't invalidate the fixater's argument; until that argument is proven false, that argument negates the possibility of your argument being valid.

What it shows is an inability to debate someone point per point and it shows bias to a specific particular topic. She frequently uses false equivalence in attempts to discredit the person she is trying to debate. It's been pointed out here and on other boards that he or she does this quite often. Their argument is invalid until they can make an appropriate and balanced comparison.

Not asking what someone's main job is =/= them not having a main job.

Here is the difference from myself and everyone else. I can admit when i'm wrong. This is true and I should not have stated it as fact. That's just my experience with the group I have been rolling with for so long now. I still think that the majority of players focus on a few jobs and not just one. There is a HUGE community with several REM weapons with the best gear for those jobs. It will depend person to person and with how much playtime they have.

Asking for a change =/= asking for more. Change is already having something and altering it. You are asking for more than what is given. So in this case... asking to be able to get a different ring/earring by dropping them and getting another.... that is change. Getting more than one is not change... that is getting more than what is given and so is why I called all of you spoiled children.

It's asking for a change to the reward system. It's asking for a change to the current rules. The result is that you come away with more items which increase your characters skill and ability. It doesn't matter what anyone asks for in this game, it's all for personal gain. That argument isn't going to work. Just like if I ask for a change to increase my RDM shield skill (as you recently did). You have been given additional and free shield skill points. Shield skill still works the same as it always has. Only a petulant child would be unhappy with what SE has already given them.

Also nobody asked for the rings to be free. Just that we have the ability to acquire more. You're making several assumptions that aren't true. It's been raised several times here and other places that we could have the ability to purchase an additional ring for an exorbitant amount of bayld. This has the side benefit of keeping Adoulin content relevant for much longer than it currently will be.

If they had only introduced 3 rings like CoP, say Woltaris, Karieyh, and Vocane, would you be making all this noise against it? If so, why don't you make a big hooplah about not being able to get refresh moonshade earring and TP moonshade earring.

Answer mine and i'll answer yours.

Thorn

11-10-2014, 01:37 PM

3 rings. <<Yes Please>> !!

Malphius

11-10-2014, 02:20 PM

I didn't say it was "wild conjecture". I said you were conjecturing wildly. There is a distinction.

So presumably

But I feel

con·jec·ture
kənˈjekCHər/Submit
noun
1.
an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.
"conjectures about the newcomer were many and varied"
synonyms: speculation, guesswork, surmise, fancy, presumption, assumption, theory, postulation, supposition; More
antonyms: fact
an unproven mathematical or scientific theorem.
"the Goldbach conjecture"
(in textual criticism) the suggestion or reconstruction of a reading of a text not present in the original source.
verb
verb: conjecture; 3rd person present: conjectures; past tense: conjectured; past participle: conjectured; gerund or present participle: conjecturing
1.
form an opinion or supposition about (something) on the basis of incomplete information.
"he conjectured the existence of an otherwise unknown feature"
synonyms: guess, speculate, surmise, infer, fancy, imagine, believe, think, suspect, presume, assume, hypothesize, suppose
"I conjectured that the game was over"

Seillan

11-10-2014, 02:35 PM

Btw you act like an obnoxious spoilt kid. Goodnight.

Agreed.

/10char

Thorn

11-10-2014, 02:51 PM

lol its funny that people dont want more rings. I have a lot of jobs n being able to pick 2 or 3 isn't going to break anything. You still cant have the rest. You still have to make choices an ppl can still see what jobs u like.

Ethalio

11-10-2014, 06:42 PM

Seillan

11-10-2014, 07:24 PM

This discussion got stuck it seems. Two fronts who are flaming each other. The actual topic has become secondary.

I personally felt like choosing one ring out of twelve is the hardest choice I have to make since the character creation when I saw the rings for the first time. While some rings are irrelevant to me it's still a very tough decision. I was and am torn between the different possibilities each ring provides.

So for me it's not a "I want more rings" like a spoiled child as some of you describe it. It's a request to ease the pain of choosing between 12 awesome items. nothing more.

I suggest a compromise: Let us choose 2 rings, just think about it before writing a reply!

That's just it though -- some of us don't look at having to make a tough choice a bad thing. There will always be times where you can't get everything you want and have to make a difficult decision; that's life, especially as an adult.

And just like the poster above you said, "being able to pick 2 or 3 isn't going to break anything" -- Neither is having to pick only one. Personally, I like restrictions like this as it allows for people to add a little more individuality to their respective characters -- even if it comes at a cost -- instead of letting everyone have their cake and the ability to eat it too. And since this is how SE decided to do it, they seem to feel the same way about it.

Shirai

11-10-2014, 07:39 PM

This discussion got stuck it seems. Two fronts who are flaming each other. The actual topic has become secondary.

That's why I try to drop my opinion on matters soon, because when certain individuals gets involved a lot of threads end up in the crapper.
And why? Usually for the sake of argument.
(I foresee that the individuals I mean will have their jimmies rustled by this, and there will be popcorn.)

I suggest a compromise: Let us choose 2 rings, just think about it before writing a reply!

Personally, I'm fine with choosing only one after finishing Adoulin.
I would however really like to see them consider an option where we, maybe just as a one time deal, are able to choose a second ring.
I don't care how, wether it be through a long and dificult quest, getting the maximum obtainable rank in all Coalitions, gathering of certain items or an ungodly amount of Bayld/Plasm/Fragments or as a rank X Mog Bonanza reward.

Unlike previous mission/quest rewards, most of these rings are fitted for very specific jobs and having to make a choice between them for a person like me which plays jobs in every aspect is nigh impossible.

Ethalio

11-10-2014, 09:06 PM

Personally, I'm fine with choosing only one after finishing Adoulin.
I would however really like to see them consider an option where we, maybe just as a one time deal, are able to choose a second ring.
I don't care how, wether it be through a long and dificult quest, getting the maximum obtainable rank in all Coalitions, gathering of certain items or an ungodly amount of Bayld/Plasm/Fragments or as a rank X Mog Bonanza reward.

Unlike previous mission/quest rewards, most of these rings are fitted for very specific jobs and having to make a choice between them for a person like me which plays jobs in every aspect is nigh impossible.

/agree 100%!

It doesn't matter in which way we get a second ring. It'd just be nice to have the option to acquire another one out of the twelve.

Afania

11-10-2014, 10:36 PM

We were talking about previous rewards where you didn't have a hard time choosing because of power differences. So yeah again you're arguing against me with stuff I wasn't saying. Also it isn't adding 1000 dmg to almost every ws unless you are counting mobs with dmg weaknesses. It's good but not that good. Not even counting all the ones that don't have dmg modified by tp

And again it wasn't slightly better. It was the hands down choice if you had any job that could ever use it regardless of your other jobs. Saying it was slightly better is like saying tp bonus is slightly better than regain earrings

And yeah that was the entire point I was making. Before there wasn't such a wide range of real choices to make. That is the entire reason for the uproar this time. If 11 of the rings were sidegrade material there wouldn't be a push for more

"every WS" was a typo, you're right that not every WS gets 1k dmg boost(but some WS still gets around 1k dmg boost). But even then moonshade is still a bigger increase than most of the rings.

So for me it's not a "I want more rings" like a spoiled child as some of you describe it. It's a request to ease the pain of choosing between 12 awesome items. nothing more.

This is really something I can't understand.....it's a PAIN to make a choice. >.> IMO making a choice is fun, it makes the game interesting. I just can't understand why is it a pain to choose between rings.

Protey

11-10-2014, 10:58 PM

"every WS" was a typo, you're right that not every WS gets 1k dmg boost(but some WS still gets around 1k dmg boost). But even then moonshade is still a bigger increase than most of the rings.

This is really something I can't understand.....it's a PAIN to make a choice. >.> IMO making a choice is fun, it makes the game interesting. I just can't understand why is it a pain to choose between rings.

I think that is the point Afania. That is the difference between us and them. I think that some people are real gamers who get enjoyment at the difficulty of games by the choices we are forced to make. And I think the others are not real gamers, they are here just for a bit of entertainment and so want to acquire everything without having to make those hard choices.

Protey

11-10-2014, 11:30 PM

It's asking for a change to the reward system. It's asking for a change to the current rules. The result is that you come away with more items which increase your characters skill and ability. It doesn't matter what anyone asks for in this game, it's all for personal gain. That argument isn't going to work. Just like if I ask for a change to increase my RDM shield skill (as you recently did). You have been given additional and free shield skill points. Shield skill still works the same as it always has. Only a petulant child would be unhappy with what SE has already given them.

Also nobody asked for the rings to be free. Just that we have the ability to acquire more. You're making several assumptions that aren't true. It's been raised several times here and other places that we could have the ability to purchase an additional ring for an exorbitant amount of bayld. This has the side benefit of keeping Adoulin content relevant for much longer than it currently will be.

Answer mine and i'll answer yours.

Those 2 comparisons are not the same. If I had asked for RDM to have Blue Magic Skill, which doesn't exist at all for RDM, then that would be a valid argument against me. However, I asked for a change in what is already there. Also, while they are additional capable shield points, one would still have to obtain them, so it wouldn't be free. How does this apply to the ring choice? You are already given one. The change is that you are able to drop the ring and choose another. The bringing into existence what wasn't there is a 2nd ring.

And yes I would make noise against it. Read my post I just made regarding what Afania said. That is why.

Aarahs

11-11-2014, 01:33 AM

And I think the others are not real gamers
Are you really making the no true Scotsman argument?

Protey

11-11-2014, 01:52 AM

Are you really making the no true Scotsman argument?

not familiar with that term. What I am saying is that Gamers want to obtain the things they get through difficult intellectual work. The non-Gamers want to obtain things without having to do much of anything for them. So it isn't so much of an argument, as a definition.

I suppose non-Gamers is a misnomer, as they are playing the game. Can just call them TV People i guess. Since they just want everything fed to them.

Malphius

11-11-2014, 02:33 AM

"every WS" was a typo

That's not a typo. A typo is where you make a small grammar mistake because you hit the wrong key on a keyboard. You were just wrong. It's okay to admit. Nobody will judge you for being wrong. We all make mistakes. Where you will get judged is for trying to be a manipulative liar.

I think that is the point Afania. That is the difference between us and them.

Clearly and thankfully. Take a look at what the BG forums are saying about this thread. They make me look polite.

Those 2 comparisons are not the same. If I had asked for RDM to have Blue Magic Skill, which doesn't exist at all for RDM, then that would be a valid argument against me. However, I asked for a change in what is already there. Also, while they are additional capable shield points, one would still have to obtain them, so it wouldn't be free. How does this apply to the ring choice? You are already given one. The change is that you are able to drop the ring and choose another. The bringing into existence what wasn't there is a 2nd ring.

You're asking for ADDITIONAL new skill points to come into existence. You don't already have them, that's why you're asking for more. The change you asked for is for there to be more! So if I have a shield skill of 200 and I ask for more shield skill and now I have 250, that's 50 more than you previously had. That's not just a change, it's an increase. You measurably got 50 more shield skill points. 50 new points have been brought into existence. Regardless of how we agree on the semantics, you're asking for something for personal gain and you're asking for SE to give it to you. By your own argument, you are a childish, non-gamer, that hates a challenge that just wants something fed to them. You should probably go watch TV. Sounds ridiculous, right?

What I am saying is that Gamers want to obtain the things they get through difficult intellectual work.

Thats funny. I thought gamers wanted to waste time having fun. I guess we have different definitions of difficult intellectual work. I mean, you're not at the CERN Laboratory. You're not curing cancer. You're not solving world hunger. At best, the "difficult intellectual work" is a mildly annoying puzzle but FFXI doesn't even have those.

SE should just satisfy the entire player base here. Nobody that gets the option to get an additional ring is going to be mad. They'll be mad they "lost" on a message board but that will soon subside when they get to pick their shiny new ring for their other job class.

Protey

11-11-2014, 04:26 AM

That's not a typo. A typo is where you make a small grammar mistake because you hit the wrong key on a keyboard. You were just wrong. It's okay to admit. Nobody will judge you for being wrong. We all make mistakes. Where you will get judged is for trying to be a manipulative liar.

Clearly and thankfully. Take a look at what the BG forums are saying about this thread. They make me look polite.

You're asking for ADDITIONAL new skill points to come into existence. You don't already have them, that's why you're asking for more. The change you asked for is for there to be more! So if I have a shield skill of 200 and I ask for more shield skill and now I have 250, that's 50 more than you previously had. That's not just a change, it's an increase. You measurably got 50 more shield skill points. 50 new points have been brought into existence. Regardless of how we agree on the semantics, you're asking for something for personal gain and you're asking for SE to give it to you. By your own argument, you are a childish, non-gamer, that hates a challenge that just wants something fed to them. You should probably go watch TV. Sounds ridiculous, right?

Thats funny. I thought gamers wanted to waste time having fun. I guess we have different definitions of difficult intellectual work. I mean, you're not at the CERN Laboratory. You're not curing cancer. You're not solving world hunger. At best, the "difficult intellectual work" is a mildly annoying puzzle but FFXI doesn't even have those.

SE should just satisfy the entire player base here. Nobody that gets the option to get an additional ring is going to be mad. They'll be mad they "lost" on a message board but that will soon subside when they get to pick their shiny new ring for their other job class.

by that reasoning, any change is an addition. stop twisting things around.

The difficult intellectual work is the strategic decision making in a game. wtf does CERN or curing lung cancer have to do with this. you really need to work on your logical argumentation.

what we get mad about is people like you who want things just given to them and are attempting to change the game in a way that will make it less enjoyable for those of us that aren't like you.

and you still haven't fulfilled your promise to answer my question.

Olor

11-11-2014, 04:29 AM

It's a hard choice, absolutely. I think it's okay we're asked to make the choice though. Most people will end up picking one of a handful of those rings. A few die hards will pick something else more beneficial to one of the game's more unloved jobs. Or something that benefits their playstyle specifically (crafters with the crafting ring, pet players with the pet ring)

Most people will pick the WS/regain ring since it benefits the most competitive slot, which is DD

Maybe when they see only 1 in a 500 players picks the pet ring they will see that those jobs need some help ;)

On the bright side the rewards are so good here we are talking about them :)

I want them all... and now I actually feel like it's worth doing the missions.

I guess I am on the fence, only if because several of these rings are so powerful it will make it harder for people who want to play a job that can benefit from it to play the job without it. Like a melee player without the regain WS ring... that's a pretty substantial boost to give up.

I am trying to convince myself to get the pet one. It's hard though!

Malphius

11-11-2014, 04:40 AM

by that reasoning, any change is an addition. stop twisting things around.

It's pretty obvious on its face. Any change that results in positive and measurable growth is an addition. If they lowered shield skill and it went from 200 to 150 that would be a reduction. You are clearly incorrect that any change is an addition. Nothing has been twisted.

The difficult intellectual work is the strategic decision making in a game. wtf does CERN or curing lung cancer have to do with this. you really need to work on your logical argumentation.

This game isn't hard. Sorry. Saying video games are difficult intellectual work is insulting to people that actually perform difficult intellectual work such as the fields I mentioned.

what we get mad about is people like you who want things just given to them and are attempting to change the game in a way that will make it less enjoyable for those of us that aren't like you.

Couldn't care less how mad you are at me. I never asked for it for free (once again). I would be perfectly fine with earning it the same way you would be your shield skill points. I'm finding it exceptionally hard to believe that anyone would find the game less enjoyable with more equipment choices. The game is build around get better gear > get better gear > get better gear.

To answer your question no I would not be asking to select all 3 rings just like i'm not asking to select all 12 rings. I'm asking to select 3 rings, which is 1/4 the rewards. Selecting 1 of 3 rings btw was 1/3 the rewards. You were selecting a higher % of reward content.

Protey

11-11-2014, 05:30 AM

It's pretty obvious on its face. Any change that results in positive and measurable growth is an addition. If they lowered shield skill and it went from 200 to 150 that would be a reduction. You are clearly incorrect that any change is an addition. Nothing has been twisted.

This game isn't hard. Sorry. Saying video games are difficult intellectual work is insulting to people that actually perform difficult intellectual work such as the fields I mentioned.

Couldn't care less how mad you are at me. I never asked for it for free (once again). I would be perfectly fine with earning it the same way you would be your shield skill points. I'm finding it exceptionally hard to believe that anyone would find the game less enjoyable with more equipment choices. The game is build around get better gear > get better gear > get better gear.

To answer your question no I would not be asking to select all 3 rings just like i'm not asking to select all 12 rings. I'm asking to select 3 rings, which is 1/4 the rewards. Selecting 1 of 3 rings btw was 1/3 the rewards. You were selecting a higher % of reward content.

it is twisting, Addition does not necessarily mean bringing into existence. Adding skill to what was already there is not bringing into existence something that wasn't there before. it is changing what was already there. And if you look at why I put it there from the other thread, it was because RDM should have higher shield skill than a WHM. RDM is a melee class (note I did not say heavy DD), as well as other classes. Whereas WHM is not. Also, putting RDM at C- shield skill will not provide any significant gain.

I never said this game is hard. I don't know if you are arguing the way you are because you're oblivious or what. It is like you never took an argumentation logic class. Saying video games are difficult intellectual work is not insulting to those people. Obviously I was referring to making difficult strategic decisions IN A GAME. You keep on taking what is said and view it with some warped point of view, state that warped point of view as if it was a fact, and then judge others against that. It's like you're a liberal.

What does getting % of reward content come from? It has always been one choice out of all. You just arbitrarily said "o, that just happens to be such and such % of the whole, so I will say I should have the same % for this new reward!" You are the one not being consistent.

Demonjustin

11-11-2014, 06:00 AM

not familiar with that term.No True Scotsman is a logical fallacy (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman) in which someone argues that someone doesn't fit into a certain group, as any true member of said group would share a specific trait. In this case, the title of "gamer" is the one we're using and what was said is basically... "no true gamer would want more than one ring as true gamers get enjoyment at the difficulty of games by the choices we are forced to make". This is a very clear example of a NTS argument because you're using one trait you believe defines a gamer to determine if anyone else is or isn't a "true" gamer. Either way, just thought I'd share so ya knew.

Malphius

11-11-2014, 06:12 AM

Addition does not necessarily mean bringing into existence. Adding skill to what was already there is not bringing into existence something that wasn't there before.

If it didn't exist before hand, then it was brought into existence. If you didn't have it before, then where did it come from? Did you transfer shield skill points from somewhere else? No? Then it was brought into existence.

if you look at why I put it there from the other thread, it was because RDM should have higher shield skill than a WHM.

Says you. RDM is a jack of all traits but primarily a support job (Buffs/Enfeebles). Your request has as much merit as the people asking for extra rings.

I never said this game is hard.

You're right, you said it was "difficult" which is a synonym for hard. It means the same thing. You stated that the game is Intellectually difficult. Which I believe for you, it is.

It is like you never took an argumentation logic class.

I must have missed "argumentation logic class" 101 in college.

You keep on taking what is said and view it with some warped point of view, state that warped point of view as if it was a fact, and then judge others against that.

It's not my fault you don't know what you're saying.

It's like you're a liberal.

How should I even respond to this? It's like you're actually the one that's a child and you're losing your argument so you resort to wild personal attacks that you pull from thin air.

What does getting % of reward content come from? It has always been one choice out of all. You just arbitrarily said "o, that just happens to be such and such % of the whole, so I will say I should have the same % for this new reward!" You are the one not being consistent.

Because you think it's just too much. Obviously we have to base the future on the past like you and others keep saying. Never mind that this situation already isn't the same as before so those rules can go out the window. When working with different amounts of items you have to break it down into % to make accurate comparisons. It's not arbitrary. Obtaining 3/12 rings still keeps the exclusivity of the rewards. You still can't have the other 9.

You are the one not being consistent.

Because I don't care how we get them. Just that we can.

Zekander

11-11-2014, 08:02 AM

I'm not sure why everyone wants the Karieyh ring (regain ring), to me it doesn't look all that great. The regain is only +5, which is 0.5% if you are still using the old parlance, so that is really actually quite weak, and suffers from a huge flaw. That flaw being that it does not scale with haste, the competition for the ring slot are most notably Rajas ring and Epona's ring. Rajas ring mostly for the Store TP trait, which does scale with haste, i.e. the more haste you have the more tp over time you will gain from Store TP. I can't do the math, but I'm willing to bet that Store TP +5 will get you more TP over time in high haste situations then Regain +5 will. And obviously the double/triple attack from Epona's ring also scales with haste, the faster you swing the more procs you will get in a certain period of time. So the only use I can see for the regain is for getting max tp before a fight, assuming you don't have access to another form of regain (meditate, SCH, COR, Opo opo necklace, etc.), but that would be a very very long wait, 10 minutes just to reach 1000 tp...

Really the best stat on that ring is the WS damage, meaning it would be a WS swap ring thereby making the Regain stat pointless. And it doesn't seem like 3% is all that much. 3% of a 10k WS is only 300 damage, that's not a whole lot, yes it will probably be more then you'd get from another ring, but probably not by much.

Protey

11-11-2014, 09:39 AM

If it didn't exist before hand, then it was brought into existence. If you didn't have it before, then where did it come from? Did you transfer shield skill points from somewhere else? No? Then it was brought into existence.

RDM already has shield skill. It is not brought into existence, it is already there. I already said the example of RDM having shield skill (already exists) vs RDM having blue magic skill (does not already exist).

You're right, you said it was "difficult" which is a synonym for hard. It means the same thing. You stated that the game is Intellectually difficult. Which I believe for you, it is.

I think this conversation is intellectually difficult for you as you can't even pay attention to what was said. I said "Gamers want to obtain the things they get through difficult intellectual work"; that is not the same as saying "This game is difficult/hard". Another instance of you taking something that was said and twisting it with your warped point of view.

I must have missed "argumentation logic class" 101 in college.

Obviously.

It's not my fault I don't know what I'm saying.

FTFY.

How should I even respond to this? It's like you're actually the one that's a child and you're losing your argument so you resort to wild personal attacks that you pull from thin air.

Made an observation to how you argue. Then correlated that with the only people I know of that argue like that. You may or may not be one, which is why I didn't say you were one, just it seems like you are.

Because you think it's just too much. Obviously we have to base the future on the past like you and others keep saying. Never mind that this situation already isn't the same as before so those rules can go out the window. When working with different amounts of items you have to break it down into % to make accurate comparisons. It's not arbitrary. Obtaining 3/12 rings still keeps the exclusivity of the rewards. You still can't have the other 9.

How is the situation different so that the rules go out the window? There was a storyline. There is a reward you get to choose from for completing that storyline. If you say it is because there is more choices.... CoP had 1 of 3 choices. Zilart had 1 of 5 choices. Aht Urhgan had 1 of 3 choices. What is this rule that requires that when you work with different amounts of items you have to break it down into % to make comparisons? When regardless of the amount of items, you always only get to choose one, there is no such rule. Doesn't matter if you are comparing 1 out of 3 to 1 out of 100 to 1 out of a google. you still only get to choose 1.

Because I don't care how we get them. Just that we can.

and this sums up the whole problem. You don't care how you obtain stuff. Those of us arguing against you do.

edit: Also, those of us arguing against you think that just because something exists doesn't mean necessarily that you have a right to it. We that are arguing against you believe that a game should require difficult decision making (and no I don't mean some huge intellectual feat like figuring out how to prevent quantum tunneling effects when working with micro-circuitry, I'm referring to strategic game decisions). Why? It makes a game more fun that way.... at least for us that are arguing against you.

Worldslost

11-11-2014, 10:50 AM

Protey

11-11-2014, 11:08 AM

I think 3 may be a bit much but 2 doesn't sound like a bad thing. For instance I am picking the fact cast ring but I would love to pick the craftsman ring since when I'm not playing I am crafting but not enough to pick that ring above all. Those 2 rings wouldn't make me anywhere near over powered if that was the fear behind letting the player base acquire 2.

i don't think anyone thinks that someone would become OP with more than one ring (i could be wrong). the argument is that one should have to make a strategic choice instead of getting to have your cake and eat it too.

Thorn

11-11-2014, 11:41 AM

lol that's not having ur cake and eating it too. its just having more cake. more cake please!

detlef

11-11-2014, 11:50 AM

i don't think anyone thinks that someone would become OP with more than one ring (i could be wrong). the argument is that one should have to make a strategic choice instead of getting to have your cake and eat it too.Put me down for more cake. Once you pick the ring you want most (which isn't actually true, since there's a good chance you have to compromise what you really want and what benefits the most jobs), is the choice of a second ring no longer strategic?

Olor

11-11-2014, 12:32 PM

Don't get me wrong if they give us more than 1 ring I will take it, I just don't think it's a big deal if we only get one.

Raka

11-11-2014, 11:02 PM

How about SE lets us buy them using real money!! I think it would be an excellent opportunity to raise some money for them. I would say $34.99 per ring and treat it as DLC stuff would be great!! Hell, they should make the last SoA chapter DLC honestly, but I think paying real money to get the other rings is reasonable. Like if you agree!

I'm sorry, but not to be rude.... Are you out of your mind with this idea though? lol
35$ is "reasonable"? Not to mention suggesting the customers pay yet again for the same expansion service just to finish the storyline?
That's the most absurd idea I have ever heard in my entire life. We need a "Dislike" button just so things like this never come to pass.
We do not need to pay for an expansion more than once, ever. I rather not have anymore crazy ideas like this one. lol
Not everybody can wipe their nose with money and toss it into a waste basket like that.

On a second note, does anyone else feel that a crafting ring being thrown in with the bunch and then make players choose it or a ring that would benefit them in endgame content more?
Just put these rings into categories of 3: Mage, DPS, and Utility. Then pick one ring in each section. Surely that would satisfy people who want more rings just because there are x4 more options than
previous/older content rewards. Curious as to how this will turn out/be handled by SquareEnix. Was one of the most trollest things they've done in a while, lol.

Add twelve really great rings, watch the world fall into despair.

Afania

11-12-2014, 12:20 AM

Afania

11-12-2014, 12:35 AM

Put me down for more cake. Once you pick the ring you want most (which isn't actually true, since there's a good chance you have to compromise what you really want and what benefits the most jobs), is the choice of a second ring no longer strategic?

Allowing the player to pick 2 rings is definitely strategic, but it's not as strategic as only picking 1.

Out of 12 rings, I only really want 3, if I can obtain 3 rings, then there's not much choice I need to make. Even picking 2 rings out of 12 is a fairly easy choice, but picking 1 ring out of 12 is a lot harder. I've been choosing mission rewards fairly easily in the past because in COP, DM and WoTG, the best choice are fairly obvious. Now it's finally a chance to make a real choice instead of "pick this or do it wrong" like DM, CoP or WoTG.

Seillan

11-12-2014, 02:27 AM

You make some really great points.

One thing I would say is that the crafting ring is Uber. Its very very very nice. If you are serious about crafting, that is the ring for you.

Casual crafters can still do their crafting slowly without the ring, so should get a battle ring instead. If you are casual about something, say crafting, then you don't need Elite Gear for your crafting - you need casual gear for your crafting. If you want to be an elite crafter, get the elite crafting ring. It makes sense really.

The same applies to other rings. You don't need to be the pinnacle of elite uberness on every job, and even if you were, you wouldn't even need a fancy ring on every job because you're already uber on them. So just pick the ring for the job you consider your most shiny, the ring will give your shiniest job that little extra sparkle. Or if you consider your crafting to be your most precious FFXI activity, you would go with crafting ring.

The old saying "a jack of all trades, a master of none" is true in this case. It is better to excel at one thing, than to try to excel at everything and fail. Sure you can be good at everything, but if you want to be the absolute Top Cat in any field, you have to focus on that one field, and I think the 1/12 choice here reflects that.

Well said -- couldn't agree more with this post.

kylani

11-12-2014, 02:46 AM

I'd like the synthesis ring to be an automatic reward like the body and cuffs, and then get to pick a ring from the other 11. :)

Malphius

11-12-2014, 03:04 AM

I openly admitted that I accidentally typed "every WS" when I meant a few WS. It's nothing but a typo with no other intention,

Which still isn't a typo. You just didn't say what you meant. Again it's not my fault you people don't know what you're actually saying. Please check a dictionary.

Those rings are not even close to game changing, if you love to start drama so much perhaps you should focus on other topics that matters a lot more....such as payment issues or job balance.

I'm still enjoying this echo chamber, thanks and i've never had an issue with payment. If SE didn't want my money i'd just stop playing. Job balance is more or less a lost cause.

The old saying "a jack of all trades, a master of none" is true in this case. It is better to excel at one thing, than to try to excel at everything and fail. Sure you can be good at everything, but if you want to be the absolute Top Cat in any field, you have to focus on that one field, and I think the 1/12 choice here reflects that.

Untrue. FFXI is 12 years old. There is a huge community that have mastered multiple jobs. Just because you haven't mastered more than PUP doesn't mean nobody else has.

Afania

11-12-2014, 03:31 AM

Which still isn't a typo. You just didn't say what you meant. Again it's not my fault you people don't know what you're actually saying. Please check a dictionary.

According to wiki:

A typographical error (often shortened to typo) is a mistake made in the typing process.

When I tried to type "few WS" in the previous discussion, I accidentally typed "every WS" instead, which I didn't notice until Dasva mentioned it. I'm not sure how is it not a typo because it was indeed a mistake made in the typing process. It's not like I typed the entire sentence wrong, I only made a mistake on the word "every" cuz I hit the wrong key.

Anyways, this discussion is completely irrelevant.

Thorn

11-12-2014, 03:36 AM

I like rakas idea of making mage, dps an utility, and picking 1 from each. then my crafts and mage and melee job will all benefit. weatherspoon will be stat king for a long time but we could get a refresh ring pretty soon I think. i don't want my melee jobs punished because the mage rings are to good.

Malphius

11-12-2014, 03:42 AM

From your same source, but nice try. Not saying what you mean to isn't a typo.

The term includes errors due to mechanical failure or slips of the hand or finger,[2] but excludes errors of ignorance

Afania

11-12-2014, 03:45 AM

From your same source, but nice try. Not saying what you mean to isn't a typo.

The term includes errors due to mechanical failure or slips of the hand or finger,[2] but excludes errors of ignorance

I typed "every" instead of "few" was a mechanical failure of finger duh. Everyone and their mother knows TP bonus dmg boost doesn't apply to every WS, I don't use it for some of the WS myself as well, thus it's silly to insist that I made the mistake due to ignorance. You can continue to put words in my month and continue to personal attack just because I don't agree with your opinion.

Malphius

11-12-2014, 03:55 AM

Afania

11-12-2014, 04:17 AM

So your finger slipped and typed out an entire other word ya? Your wilful ignorance is astonishing. I didn't put words in your mouth, everything is exactly as you've said it. You made an exaggerated claim, got called out on it and now you're saying "my finger slipped and I typed out an entirely different word". Which is exactly why I call you a manipulative liar.

That wasn't an exaggerated claim because:

1) I don't use moonshade for some of my WS myself as well, which you can check my own itemset on AH(and no I didn't ninja edit it after this discussion). If I do believe moonshade boosts every WS dmg I'd have use it myself. Thus it's not a mistake made out of ignorance.

2) Without the word "every" in that sentence, moonshade gives 1k dmg boost isn't "exaggerated claim" itself because it does apply to some WS. On darksday using my current leaden set(253 AGI+ 91 MAB), the dmg is 8267 with moonshade, without moonshade it's 7292 with the 2nd best option novio. You're welcome to point out if I made a mistake in the calculation though.

3) Based on the fact that I clearly don't believe moonshade bonus apply to every WS, and the fact that it does apply to some WS, I'm not sure how is it an "exaggerated claim and lying". I was trying to say that it does give 1k dmg boost to WS, but accidentally typed the word "every" before the word "WS". Nothing more and nothing less. It's not like I outright deny that I made the mistake as well, I admitted it. Now you're just using my own mistake and make a big fuss out of it so you can win this internet argument.

4) And yes I often finger slipped and typed out an entire different word, if you check my post history on this forum, I edited almost every single post, because I make typing mistakes very often. I just didn't notice that "every WS" before I hit submit.

5) Since you often visit AH.com, you should know that if I really made a mistake out of ignorance, I almost always just admit it. And no, I'm not interested in twisting game mechanics on purpose just so that I can choose 1 ring. I gain nothing from doing so. If anything it is you who's been twisting my intention so you can choose 3 rings.

6) You're right, everything is exactly as I've said it: I accidentally typed the word "every" when I tried to demonstrate moonshade dmg difference, and that's it. If anything it is YOU who's twisting other's intention and do personal insult, just because I made a mistake and typed that "every" in that sentence.

Malphius

11-12-2014, 04:28 AM

Moonshade is like a thousand more dmg for every WS in 1 slot, I don't see any ring as OP as that.

Looks a lot like an exaggerated claim. It certainly isn't a typo. Its for sure incorrect.

And yes I often finger slipped and typed out an entire other word

It's obvious you don't even know what a slip of the finger is. Even if you accidently used one word you hadn't meant to, the syntax of your statement wouldn't have made sense. You must have made a typo with the entire statement.

Afania

11-12-2014, 04:31 AM

Looks a lot like an exaggerated claim. It certainly isn't a typo. Its for sure incorrect.

It's obvious you don't even know what a slip of the finger is. Even if you accidently used one word you hadn't meant to, the syntax of your statement wouldn't have made sense. You must have made a typo with the entire statement.

If you delete that "every" in that sentence, then that sentence is correct. Moonshade does give 1k dmg boost to WS, just not every WS. I just show you the math, it's 1k dmg boost to leaden salute, none of the adoulin reward gives 1k dmg boost to your WS. Note that's without MDB- debuff, the gap should be bigger when your dmg gets 100% increase with MDB- debuff. When your WS has 4 FTP at 1000 TP and 6.7 at 2000 TP, Moonshade is just that strong, adoulin reward isn't even comparable....excluding snapshot ring maybe.

If you think my calculation is wrong, you or Dasva are free to point it out and start a math discussion. But don't outright call others "liar" before proving me wrong.(and even if you can prove me wrong, it doesn't mean I was "lying" either) If anything I feel you're just taking advantage of my own typo.

Malphius

11-12-2014, 05:25 AM

It was amusing at first but now it's getting annoying how your story changes every time you get backed into a corner.

Moonshade is like a thousand more dmg for every WS in 1 slot, I don't see any ring as OP as that.

When I tried to type "few WS" in the previous discussion, I accidentally typed "every WS" instead

If you delete that "every" in that sentence

Let me get this straight. You "tried" to type "few WS" but your fingers slipped (a typo) and you typed "every WS"? Your finger slipped 5 times typing a 3 letter word to keys no where near what you needed?
Yeah if only we start changing what you said, then you were right.

Moonshade is like a thousand more dmg for every WS in 1 slot, I don't see any ring as OP as that.

That syntax in your original statement is correct.

But if we start removing and substituting words:

Now it reads
Moonshade is like a thousand more dmg for WS in 1 slot, I don't see any ring as OP as that

The syntax is still incorrect. Just like it is if it were to read
Moonshade is like a thousand more dmg for few WS in 1 slot, I don't see any ring as OP as that Proving that you typed exactly what you meant to.

Since you brought up XIAH, this is actually what you're known for there. And I quote.

Well, I'm not going to argue with you, you're just annoying. And clearly didn't read what has been said up to that post.
You have the same reputation there as you do here.

detlef

11-12-2014, 07:59 AM

Don't get me wrong if they give us more than 1 ring I will take it, I just don't think it's a big deal if we only get one.The first step toward receiving something is to request it. It doesn't hurt to ask.

Afania

11-12-2014, 10:10 AM

It was amusing at first but now it's getting annoying how your story changes every time you get backed into a corner.

I'm not sure what you mean here, my story is the same entire time....I accidentally typed the word "every" and that's it.

Let me get this straight. You "tried" to type "few WS" but your fingers slipped (a typo) and you typed "every WS"? Your finger slipped 5 times typing a 3 letter word to keys no where near what you needed?

Yes I do that often, problem? It is still a typo.

That syntax in your original statement is correct.

But if we start removing and substituting words:

Now it reads

The syntax is still incorrect. Just like it is if it were to read Proving that you typed exactly what you meant to.

Why's above sentence incorrect? I don't get it. You're not me, how'd you know what I was thinking when I typed that word? Again you're just taking advantage of that typo so you can win this internet argument.

You have the same reputation there as you do here.

"doesn't read", ok. But my reputation there doesn't include twisting facts and lying though. You're the one who made that up and took advantage of it.

If I really meant "every WS" because I'm ignorant I'd just admit I was wrong to begin with, I admit I'm wrong about stuff on the forum all the time, it's not like it's hard. I don't have a reason to twist this fact because anyone can notice this error as ppl don't use it for every WS. If anything it is you who continue to take advantage over this because you want 3 rings that's why you kept doing personal attack.

Malphius

11-12-2014, 10:49 AM

The first step toward receiving something is to request it. It doesn't hurt to ask.

Fully agree!

Thorn

11-12-2014, 10:56 AM

cheers! SE I would like 2 -3 rings please! <<help me out>>

Kincard

11-12-2014, 12:48 PM

It's like you're a liberal.

I'm generally someone that does not want to spend too much time posting on any board so I just browse what people say for the most part, but I just wanted to say that I'm highly amused that the POL boards have suddenly become /pol/ instead.

Carry on.

Camate

11-14-2014, 03:12 AM

Olor

11-14-2014, 03:39 AM

The first step toward receiving something is to request it. It doesn't hurt to ask.

I am going to quote this next time someone flames me for asking for something for a job I like

;)

detlef

11-14-2014, 03:42 AM

I am going to quote this next time someone flames me for asking for something for a job I like

;)Hey it never hurts to ask. Unless words hurt you, in which case yeah it sometimes hurts to ask.

Kaeviathan

11-14-2014, 06:12 AM

the development team created the stats with the idea in mind that you can only possess one.

That doesn't make sense. You could have just stated "The development team created 12 rings with the idea in mind that you can only possess one" than that nonsense.

Either way, it's a real bummer that the team isn't able to agree to such a simple demand.

Sapphire

11-14-2014, 06:20 AM

Either way, it's a real bummer that the team isn't able to agree to such a simple demand.

Another hint for you:

Request >>>>>> Demand.

Kaeviathan

11-14-2014, 06:39 AM

Another hint for you:

Request >>>>>> Demand.

I tried thinking of another word, but "Demand" was the only one that came up at that moment. Thank you for correction.

Kombys

11-14-2014, 07:59 AM

why not jsut let us get speed move and synthesis ring by default then ppl can pick 3rd one????

Stompa

11-14-2014, 08:40 AM

why not jsut let us get speed move and synthesis ring by default then ppl can pick 3rd one????

Because then every lvl 99 character in the game who spent a week or so doing some CS and battles, would have automatic super-movement speed and automatic synthesis bonuses. In which case it would be the same as changing the core game to make everyone permanently run faster and synth better. Which would defeat the purpose of these being special powerful rewards for completing a Hero Storyline.

machini

11-15-2014, 04:57 PM

We definitely understand that it’s difficult to choose one ring because each one of them have attractive stats on them, but the development team created the stats with the idea in mind that you can only possess one. There have also been some requests to add a system for exchanging rings, but at the moment we do not have any plans to add a system to exchange rings similar to the other reward rings from the past.

This has just ensured that I will never complete the Adoulin story line.

I like to play Dancer. I get a lot of shit for playing Dancer. I have been told repeatedly by multiple people to "F off" when I try to get in to things. I have repeatedly been told that Dancer is "completely worthless" unless I have a Terpsichore, but then still to not expect anyone to want me for anything.

All I see in these rings is yet another "you are absolutely worthless and will not be picked for doing things" barrier. You play SAM but don't have the WS ring? Or play WHM but don't have the Cure Potency II ring? Might as well not play.

There are too many people in this game who refuse to take anyone unless they have the best of the best gear. All this does, in a time where players need to be more diversified in what roles they can fill, is ensure that you're going to be drastically behind everyone else in a specific role unless you pick a specific ring.

Combine this with the fact that only a couple of the rings are worth taking at all (everyone I have spoken to has said they will get Karieyh or Orvail), and why even give us a choice at all? There is no choice when the choice is between "this is the best" and "everything else isn't".

Letting us pick two of the 12 rings, and splitting them up into melee, mage, and utility, and only letting us have one of a specific category, would be infinitely better than this screwed up system that is currently in place. It would let people still have some measure of diversity and allow the players to make [B]meaningful[B] choices, because as it stands right now there really is no choice about it: some of the rings are clearly worthless and make absolutely no sense, and some of them are so obviously better you'd have to be extremely obstinate, stupid, or insanely devoted to another job to pick another ring.

Afania

11-15-2014, 07:59 PM

This has just ensured that I will never complete the Adoulin story line.

I like to play Dancer. I get a lot of shit for playing Dancer. I have been told repeatedly by multiple people to "F off" when I try to get in to things. I have repeatedly been told that Dancer is "completely worthless" unless I have a Terpsichore, but then still to not expect anyone to want me for anything.

All I see in these rings is yet another "you are absolutely worthless and will not be picked for doing things" barrier. You play SAM but don't have the WS ring? Or play WHM but don't have the Cure Potency II ring? Might as well not play.

There are too many people in this game who refuse to take anyone unless they have the best of the best gear. All this does, in a time where players need to be more diversified in what roles they can fill, is ensure that you're going to be drastically behind everyone else in a specific role unless you pick a specific ring.

Combine this with the fact that only a couple of the rings are worth taking at all (everyone I have spoken to has said they will get Karieyh or Orvail), and why even give us a choice at all? There is no choice when the choice is between "this is the best" and "everything else isn't".

Letting us pick two of the 12 rings, and splitting them up into melee, mage, and utility, and only letting us have one of a specific category, would be infinitely better than this screwed up system that is currently in place. It would let people still have some measure of diversity and allow the players to make [B]meaningful[B] choices, because as it stands right now there really is no choice about it: some of the rings are clearly worthless and make absolutely no sense, and some of them are so obviously better you'd have to be extremely obstinate, stupid, or insanely devoted to another job to pick another ring.

You're over-exaggerating the importance of Karieyh. Some people pick Karieyh because they don't have RNG, COR or mage jobs, or they want to save $$ on HQ stat rings. AFAIK Karieyh doesn't make drastic difference over HQ stat rings to make a job unplayable without it. I haven't check every job/WS though, you're free to give different opinion about Karieyh.

machini

11-15-2014, 09:12 PM

Byrth

11-15-2014, 11:34 PM

Karieyh sucks, and anyone that would exclude someone for not picking that ring is terrible enough that you're better off without the invite.

Kincard

11-16-2014, 04:33 AM

I would assume Karieyh Ring is pretty nice for single-hit weapon skills, but yeah, if someone's barring you from joining because you're missing that ring out of all of the things you could be missing they probably don't know what they're doing.

I don't think think any of these rings are on the level of make-or-break your job items. That goes to things like Aegis or Annihilator probably.

Afania

11-16-2014, 08:07 AM

I'm not exaggerating, or maybe you've never seen people refusing to take anyone but a 4 Song BRD for something, or refusing a MNK that doesn't have Oats.

People in this game can be absolutely retarded when it comes to "you must have the absolute best gear (that we think is best)".

1 extra song and 119 weapon(assuming the MNK doesn't have another ilv119 weapon) makes a bigger difference than WSD+3% ring though.

Selindrile

11-16-2014, 09:03 AM

Don't think WSD+3% actually beats Ifrit +1 for Mnk (on VS), and prolly not even Rajas depending on where dDex falls, because if it's like all the other WSD items, the increased damage only applies on the first hit. I'm sure it's the best WS ring for Sam probably most of the time, perhaps Thf depending on WS? Though I suppose 5TP Regain is kinda nice for melee idle.

All this was discussed at length on ffxiah.

Personally I'm going with the Geo Skill + Refresh ring, refresh on the ring slot isn't make or break either, especially considering there's a lot of nice idle rings, but Geo Skill is kinda a huge deal, and Blu Skill 10 will probably afford you things like another Occultation shadow at times.