Auto Regain

[Xsilver]

Allow Dancers to have the trait: "Auto Regain" and "Auto Regain II". This will give Dancer's 2TP/tick, but to prevent abuse or balance issues, allow it only to activate while engaged with a target AND have enmity on the current target. This will prevent Dancers from engaging a target from afar or with Sneak/Invisible on and accruing TP risk free.

This will aid in generally increasing the amount of TP a DNC has to work with.



While on the topic of Dancer TP, please allow the trait "Conserve TP" to be able to activate on Sambas/Waltzes/Steps.

[Teraniku]

Um is this not why they gave DNC Finishing Moves? The only time you have to worry about tp is at the beginning of a fight, until you build up finishing moves. You can generate 5 Finishing move points in 20 sec with Presto. You have to put Merit points into the category that grants you more tp / finishing move and cap it, which will give you 750 tp for all 5 finishing moves at cap.

Not saying you don't have a valid point, I'm just saying that there are ways to get extra tp within the actual job, but Auto-Regain would probably make DNC a bit too overpowered.

[Ulth]

Not to mention that dancers actually have an okay form of regain. If you are using Polyhymnia and Maxixi Tiara +1, Haste Samba will actually give dancers 450 tp over the duration of the samba; that's a 100 tp profit. If they have 10 job points in samba duration that's another 50 extra tp. When they increase the cap to 30, Haste samba will last for 3:15, or 65 ticks for a total of 650 tp, and a net profit of 300.

So When a dancer goes into a zone they could no foot rise, reverse flourish, and then just keep a samba up to constantly gain tp without even engaging.

[Trumpy]

This will give Dancer's 2TP/tick, but to prevent abuse or balance issues, allow it only to activate while engaged with a target AND have enmity on the current target. This will prevent Dancers from engaging a target from afar or with Sneak/Invisible on and accruing TP risk free.

Why put these restrictions on when via cor and sch there are ways to gain tp without being engaged or being sneak/invis'ed? Or if they had No foot step merited they can easily pop that and reverse flourish upon zoning to have TP to start. Ive always thought they should have at least 1 tick regain due to the fact TP is thier life blood much like MP is to whm. but now a days at 99 and decent gear i seem to get tp so fast I am not sure regain needed as much. In the eary days though leveling and in parties and such I thought it would have really helped. Back when accuracy was an issue and we didnt have dual wield ect...

[Raydeus]

I think Latent Regain for melee jobs and Latent Refresh for Mages would be a nice CP gift.

[Protey]

I think Latent Regain for melee jobs and Latent Refresh for Mages would be a nice CP gift.

and what about jobs that are both melee and mage at the same time?

[Raydeus]

and what about jobs that are both melee and mage at the same time?

I'm a RDM, so I know the chances of SE giving us a functional Auto-Refresh that works in combat are 0 (or more precisely -0.5 because it's more likely our Refresh will get nerfed first.)

BLU on the other hand would probably get the Latent Regain instead.

[dasva]

Why put these restrictions on when via cor and sch there are ways to gain tp without being engaged or being sneak/invis'ed? Or if they had No foot step merited they can easily pop that and reverse flourish upon zoning to have TP to start. Ive always thought they should have at least 1 tick regain due to the fact TP is thier life blood much like MP is to whm. but now a days at 99 and decent gear i seem to get tp so fast I am not sure regain needed as much. In the eary days though leveling and in parties and such I thought it would have really helped. Back when accuracy was an issue and we didnt have dual wield ect...

I'd imagine those restrictions are to balance out the fact he was talking about it being a job trait so otherwise always active. Cors have to use that buff over others and schs still have to cast. On the other hand with high amounts of haste you see in pts nowadays not sure how helpful regain is during the fight. Probably get more tp out of another 5% DA or something.

Since they are giving gift spells why not gift jas (similar to how non mages got merit jas while mages got merit spells) have a tp "drain" samba. But that doesn't actually take away from the mob because too good. Probably end up being better than this regain and fairly in line with dnc. I mean there is already an hp and mp samba tp just seems like a obvious conclusion and would make it a rather interesting choice between haste and it instead of the current haste samba or bust

[Grekumah]

The dev. team would like dancers to utilize reverse flourish to maximize their TP management and as such they do not have any plans to add auto-regain to dancer.

[Marada]

I fail to see why Dancers would need auto-regain. Even a 50/tic would be over kill on it. Dancers can dual wield daggers, have access to DA+ gear, have access to dual wield gear, and have very good evasion and good accuracy. I haven't seen a dancer in years have a hard time keeping their TP up. So unless you're not good with TP management, you shouldn't be having problems.

[Trumpy]

Like i said, I mostly saw this needed in the olden days when DNC first came out (via trait or a regain stat on our bodies like mages got refresh). When the best WS we had forever was gust slash. When even with food and decent gear it was hard to land hits in parties. And we didnt come with dual wielding like we do now (And I dont even mean the end game since dnc wasnt allowed in much of anything back then, Im talkin leveling parties and whatever DNC might have been involved with in those days. Since people didnt view DNC as a melee at all, jsut a shitty healer). It is much different now than it was back then. I am not sure how many people even know how it was back then cause there was so few of us. Now there are dancers everywhere. These days with gear we have available and Melee updates we have gotten since then, Regain isnt as needed. (Still wouldnt mind seeing a Regain stat on empy body reforge, like mages get refresh, even if it was only 1 tp a tick. But I wouldnt cry about it if we didnt get it.)

[dasva]

Right now outside of getting some while waiting for a fight store tp would probably do more than an auto regain given attack speeds and such

[Glamdring]

Right now outside of getting some while waiting for a fight store tp would probably do more than an auto regain given attack speeds and such

absolutely true, or a Conserve TP trait analogous to blm's Conserve MP trait so you can luck out, get off that Waltz V and still have enough TP for a kickass WS/self SC in 2 seconds.

[dasva]

absolutely true, or a Conserve TP trait analogous to blm's Conserve MP trait so you can luck out, get off that Waltz V and still have enough TP for a kickass WS/self SC in 2 seconds.

Oh or maybe a trait similar to the augment you could get on Desultor Tassets. Like a gift that gives you -5 tp per waltz. Another one that gives -1 per step etc

[Sapphires]

dancer doesnt need autoregain, removing the JA delay we incurr when doing steps would give us more tp over time and fix one of the biggest issues with the steps adjustment.

The puppet master adjustment where they removed JA delay for maneuvers while meleeing means they could redo dancer steps so they could be done without DPS stalls.
The visual cue of a step effect being applied could be changed from the current animation to just having a colored glow(different color per step type) effect pulse in the hand while the current meleeing animation continues unhindered.

[Ataraxia]

The dev. team would like dancers to utilize reverse flourish to maximize their TP management and as such they do not have any plans to add auto-regain to dancer.

To Grekumah and Akihioko Matsui I hope you both are aware that you already giving all job a source of TP regain +10 with the use of a item. NPC by the name of Bernegeois sell Frontier Soda drink which offer TP regain +10 for any job that use as long as you have the inventory to carry them. Can we please just allow everyone to have a TP regain +10 through the use of lonis, sanction, and signet etc? and ban the soda Frontier Soda so people can't buy it anymore because it's too much of a hassle since these don't stack and it takes up a lot of inventory space.

[Ataraxia]

Sapphire yeah I believe you are 100% correct about Ja Delay while DNC incurr a steps. It slow them down and they lose a few second of melee. This has been one of DNC biggest problem for a long time now and many DNC i see do not bother to land a steps but just melee. Maybe this is an issue and they probably fix it in the future I hope.

What does everyone think is better? =)

A: Remove JA delay while DNC incurr a steps.
B: Leave it the way it is but when someone land a steps they get TP instead of losing TP.

[dasva]

I'd say remove ja delay largely it fixes the larger problem for everyone instead of just 1 job. It's not really just a dnc problem it's just now that they fixed it for pup (well somewhat fixed it) it's biggest for dnc. But after the update it's going to be a big problem for bst. Well sorta already is in that it is often an overall dps loss to use ready but will become even more apparent after they lower the recast and up the dmg. While it depends on how much the increase dmg and the skill elements the sheer frequency of readying will have a huge effect on how much help the change can actually accomplish at least in pt play. Hurts run a bit too as they can be rather spammy. Actually remove all fixed after action delays. Like the couple of seconds after casting a spell even with chainspell. The delay after ws. The delay after doing ranged attacks.

[YosemiteYogorockBlondelle]

Well since some were mentioning reforged gears that could include auto-regain it gave me an idea/reminder of another in game gear piece but this here is an over looked gear piece that does give auto-Regain but only with weapons drawn to attack and you don't necessarily have to be attacking the mob for the tp to be building 10 tick at a time in which you could be standing at a distance letting your tp build up for it is how it's Latent Effect works of it's 2nd added augment to this item and the rest i'll discuss about it is next. {well there is also a sword that gives auto-regain at the horrible cost mp draining but I'm not positive it is a dnc usable sword as well.} :cool:

;)Its called the Augmented "Moonshade Earring" in the earring slot from finishing up the Wings Of The Goddes Storyline and of course you can put more then one type of augment on it but the one augment that would benefit a Dancer Job the most is Adding the 2nd Augment of LE: Regain to it. I picked for my first augment is added accuracy, granted there are better earrings or rings out now for high level even if your I-Level with the job in which case you can find some better adoulin story line gears now. I'm guessing the dude was referring to leveling the job up before pre-99 on its tp based abilities but not sure what could be better tp based/tp based gears for low level dnc's who have just started out leveling the job up. <(?_?)

[Ladynamine]

Um is this not why they gave DNC Finishing Moves? The only time you have to worry about tp is at the beginning of a fight, until you build up finishing moves. You can generate 5 Finishing move points in 20 sec with Presto. You have to put Merit points into the category that grants you more tp / finishing move and cap it, which will give you 750 tp for all 5 finishing moves at cap.

Not saying you don't have a valid point, I'm just saying that there are ways to get extra tp within the actual job, but Auto-Regain would probably make DNC a bit too overpowered.

don't forget those free finishing moves dancer gets with no foot rise and the empy gloves +2 that further enhances the reverse flourish ;3

EDIT:

You have to put Merit points into the category that grants you more tp / finishing move

oh wait....nvm on the no foot rise part...you said it lol

[Glamdring]

Sapphire yeah I believe you are 100% correct about Ja Delay while DNC incurr a steps. It slow them down and they lose a few second of melee. This has been one of DNC biggest problem for a long time now and many DNC i see do not bother to land a steps but just melee. Maybe this is an issue and they probably fix it in the future I hope.

What does everyone think is better? =)

A: Remove JA delay while DNC incurr a steps.
B: Leave it the way it is but when someone land a steps they get TP instead of losing TP.

I would have to say b, not because I prefer it but because they just lowered the steps recast, thus INCREASING JA delay, assuming we actually use them of course. Given that I have to assume the increase was intentional, not an unintended consequence. they COULD do as you said with a gain of TP, they could also-as they did with pup-get rid of the animation portion of the delay, not a perfect fix, but it would be something. I mean, I was never worried about 3 seconds delay per minute to do manuvers on a pup, but come on, if we max out steps-assuming the animation lock's removal that is still 12 seconds per minute lost from melee, 20% of our DPS, and that's not including time lost tossing a waltz or whatever.

I just brushed the dust off my dancer the other night, aside from soloing I just can't see it having enough utility with that delay anymore, although that is colored by my having job alternatives. if it were my only 99 in top flight gear and maxed capacity points, etc. no doubt I'd be on here singing its praises as a powerhouse utility job in the hopes of convincing someone to invite me to an end-game whatever.

[Mooserocka]

Yea the step animation cost so much damage. Also if we got rid of this animation it would make dnc viable in support again. The only reason I don't use steps a lot is cause loss of dps from the animation.