What in the name of anything @ Atomos

[Alhanelem]

Atomos (Lv. 75, Recast time: 60 sec.)
Removes one magic effect from an enemy and grants it to friendly players within area of effect.
* Atomos has no additional blood pacts usable during Astral Flow.This has to be the most disappointing thing i've EVER seen. I suppose there are some specific places it could be powerful (It does say "friendly players" not "party members" so it would seem to apply to everyone nearby...) but unless it steals things like 1-hour abilities or unique monster effects not normally avialable to players, it seems like pure garbage. Who would ever use this over Alxeander or even Odin?

[Shirai]

I must admit that I do find this utterly disappointing indeed.
Apart from that, it speaks of a magic effect, which leaves in the middle if that magic effect is a beneficial or a detrimental one.

It may as well be a Helix spell by a well geared Scholar that you're transfering to your allies. (Hi Mastop in a bottle!)

That aside, I am very curious as to how the new Avatar's Favor will work.
And if this rule:

Avatars will have increased physical and magic accuracy when level 100 or above.
Is tied to the Favor changes or is a seperate buff for Avatars of level 100+.

[Alhanelem]

It's safe to say the accuracy change always applies, because the same change was applied to ALL pet jobs.

As far as I can tell on avatar's favor, it now costs you more MP instead of less but no longer has any detrimental effects (no reduced attack/MAB and probably no effect reset on BP use, but that part remains to be seen.)

Atomos, I mean, we knew it was going to be a 1-hour ability, but they had SEVERAL years to come up with an interesting ability and this was the best they could do?

[Shirai]

Atomos, I mean, we knew it was going to be a 1-hour ability, but they had SEVERAL years to come up with an interesting ability and this was the best they could do?

I know, personally I was hoping for Atomos' BP to be have like an Impact/Ultimate Terror effect on the mob and dividing the stolen stats over the partymembers.
As per my previous post, if it can be any magic effect, you may as well instantly kill your entire group with this.

[Willinsen]

It doesn't say it need astral flow active, maybe it's just a spell with a normal recast?

[Rakshaka]

It doesn't say it need astral flow active, maybe it's just a spell with a normal recast?

My thoughts exactly. Otherwise, why would they include the "* Atomos has no additional blood pacts usable during Astral Flow." It's different from the wording that was used for Odin and Alexander. They may be saying that Atomos is casted like Odin, but without needing Astral Flow, and that if you do use Astral Flow and summon Atomos, that he won't use a different Astral Flow specific ability.

Could we get a dev to clear up this confusion? Do we need Astral Flow active to summon Atomos? If so, is he able to absorb SP abilities?

[Shirai]

It doesn't say it need astral flow active, maybe it's just a spell with a normal recast?

That is indeed a very astute observation, we have been under the assumption from previous announcements that Atomos, like Alexander and Odin would only be summonable under the effects of Astral Flow.
It could go either way, though. Time will tell.

[Sasaraixx]

Atomos is a huge disappointment, especially considering we've been waiting years for this. It is basically Larceny, except the effect is spread to the allies and not to the player only. If it does not prioritize SP abilities it will be even more useless.

The Avatar's Favor changes are also slightly disappointing, but I guess I should be happy they touched it at all. If the increase in perp. cost is only to the normal levels AND the favor is not reset upon BP usage, then I will be fine with it. Most of the favors need to be reworked, but if we essentially get the current favors for "free," then I will stop complaining. If we have to pump out even more perp cost for the underwhelming favors, then they are not worth using imo. This of course overlooks the fact that most of the time you are going to summon, BP and release so you will rarely have the full favor effect and that your avatar is likely to be taken down by AOE on anything worthwhile.

The new JA is nice and the increase accuracy is desperately needed. I'm just wondering where Hastega II and the other new BPs are. Where are the rest of Cait Sith's BPs?

[Sasaraixx]

That is indeed a very astute observation, we have been under the assumption from previous announcements that Atomos, like Alexander and Odin would only be summonable under the effects of Astral Flow.
It could go either way, though. Time will tell.

I thought this at first as well, however if it is not tied to astral flow would that not be a slap in the face to Thiefs? It would be a better version of their SP ability every minute. That assumes of course Atomos is able to remove SP abilities. If it isn't, then this spell is complete garbage.

[Shirai]

Removes one magic effect from an enemy and grants it to friendly players within area of effect.
I am pretty sure that effects from special abilities do not fall under the catagory "Magic effect".

[Willinsen]

I don't think it steals SP ability like Larceny but many mob self-buff effect are quite potent. Giving that to EVERY party member in range maybe isn't extremely usefull in every fight but still i can't say it's completly useless. It sounds far better than a 1hr Absorb-stats that we were expecting to me. We don't know anyway, if it's really linked to Astral flow that would make it quite bad.

[Malithar]

Think this is actually a pretty useful tool for Smn. Read into the info they gave. Notice no mention of using a BP, like Odin and Alexander.


Summoner
A new spell will be added.
Atomos (Lv. 75, Recast time: 60 sec.)
Removes one magic effect from an enemy and grants it to friendly players within area of effect.

No use of a BP, you cast the spell, he does his thing, and he goes away, just like Odin and Alexander, sans the Astral Flow requirements. Even if it's just a party wide Absorb-Atri, with some solid fast cast, you could get that down to 20 sec easily enough, and that's outside of the BP timer. It may not be an omgamazing addition, but it's not difficult to see the use in that. If anything, I'm excited to see that model of Avatar come to Smn without needing Astral Flow. If they are willing to expand the list of summonable creatures, maybe we could see more avatars with this model, similar to old school FF Smns.

[Shirai]

Be as it may however, I am still afraid that it might also steal and redistribute any detrimental effects. o_O;

[Malithar]

Not that it's not possible, but I'd imagine they've got the code in place already for stealing positive effects only. See Voracious Trunk, Absorb-Atri, and Larceny.

[Sasaraixx]

Not that it's not possible, but I'd imagine they've got the code in place already for stealing positive effects only. See Voracious Trunk, Absorb-Atri, and Larceny.

The text for for all of those spells specifically says "beneficial" effect. Atomos just says "magic effect" and who knows what that means.

[Jerbob]

On first impressions, I already greatly prefer this Atomos summoning magic to another useless Astral Flow only ability. Even if the effect transferred is random, Atomos' effect is going to be worth using in at least some situations - most NMs have buffs worth stealing. Hopefully detrimental effects won't be included, though I wouldn't put it past SE. I'll reserve judgement until the release, but I'm preparing myself to be pleased with this!

Avatar's Favour - It almost couldn't get any worse than it is now, so this looks to be an improvement. I'm pretty sure the wording implies that perpetuation cost will increase up from base value after the change, not just remove the cost reduction we have now, but I think we can cope with that unless it's absurd. It all hinges on whether BP use resets favour potency still - if so, then it's still borderline worthless.

Apogee - Certainly can't hurt. Shame that they felt that this required a penalty in MP.

Increased accuracy - Thank goodness for that.

I was really hoping the promised update would remove the caps on our Wards and increase the potency on some of our weaker enhancing effects, but this is all still potentially nice stuff. Hopefully more waiting in the wings - and some bug fixes wouldn't go amiss either.

[Windwhisper]

on first glance it looks useless. sadly it does look on 2nd as well when you take macc into account. like on lvl ??? Holy. useful every 200 tries. i hope the macc will be way better than on Caith sith lvl ??? Holy or Diabolos Death ability

[Zeargi]

Avatar's Favour - It almost couldn't get any worse than it is now, so this looks to be an improvement. I'm pretty sure the wording implies that perpetuation cost will increase up from base value after the change, not just remove the cost reduction we have now, but I think we can cope with that unless it's absurd. It all hinges on whether BP use resets favour potency still - if so, then it's still borderline worthless.

Apogee - Certainly can't hurt. Shame that they felt that this required a penalty in MP.

I was really hoping the promised update would remove the caps on our Wards and increase the potency on some of our weaker enhancing effects, but this is all still potentially nice stuff. Hopefully more waiting in the wings - and some bug fixes wouldn't go amiss either..

These are all my same concerns I have. If Atomos doesn't suck then it may be super useful VS certain bosses. I wonder if we'll still have to Dismiss our current Avatar to Atomos, would be awesome if you could summon it too, like in the fight. If the reset of Avatar's Favor still happens, then it's of no use to us. (Still wish SMN had Stay). As for Apogee, I agree that the MP+ thing sucks. BLM, BRD, and RDM's Mini-1hrs don't have a negative thing attached to them. :< I'm also hoping that while we wait for those new BPs our old ones get a boost.

[Bebekeke]

If Atomos isn't tied to Astral Flow, then it's likely to be highly magic accuracy based, and due to the fact that you cast Atomos on the mob, rather than casting atomos then using a BP on the mob, it's likely to be the SMN's Magic Acc, rather than the Avatar's. Which means another set of gear (unless you're a SMN who has an Impact set already). But let's hope not.

Atomos is either going to be really quite good, or really bad, but there's so many ways for it to be bad, it's more than likely going to be the latter.

[Annalise]

I doubt it steals detrimental effects like giving everyone a helix effect.

It sounds as if it is going to be Absorb-Attri but instead of going to Atomos, it is AoE. So this sounds similar to DRK but AoE. If this is something that is indeed one minute and not an Astral flow pact, it may have some uses.

[Grekumah]

It will be possible to summon Atomos without using Astral Flow.

In regards to the absorption effect, it is the same effect as that of dark magic spell Absorb-Attri and the blue magic spell Voracious Trunk. The effect duration from the monster you absorb an effect from will carry over, so if you absorb it when there are only a few seconds left, it will only remain on your party members for this duration as well.

Essentially, when it comes to Blood Pacts, Atomos is similar to Odin and Alexander in the sense that it is summoned just for this ability alone; however, Astral Flow is not required. There are no plans to add other Blood Pact abilities for Atomos.

[Vivivivi]

It will be possible to summon Atomos without using Astral Flow.

In regards to the absorption effect, it is the same effect as that of dark magic spell Absorb-Attri and the blue magic spell Voracious Trunk. The effect duration from the monster you absorb an effect from will carry over, so if you absorb it when there are only a few seconds left, it will only remain on your party members for this duration as well.

Essentially, when it comes to Blood Pacts, Atomos is similar to Odin and Alexander in the sense that it is summoned just for this ability alone; however, Astral Flow is not required. There are no plans to add other Blood Pact abilities for Atomos.

More single spell-type avatars pls! *coughnaakaulscough*

[Draylo]

I kinda like that because its a throw back to old FF games!

[Glamdring]

so, with it not being tied to Astral Flow we can pretty much guarantee it isn't viable against boss mobs...

[crptaculous]

It will be possible to summon Atomos without using Astral Flow.

In regards to the absorption effect, it is the same effect as that of dark magic spell Absorb-Attri and the blue magic spell Voracious Trunk. The effect duration from the monster you absorb an effect from will carry over, so if you absorb it when there are only a few seconds left, it will only remain on your party members for this duration as well.

Essentially, when it comes to Blood Pacts, Atomos is similar to Odin and Alexander in the sense that it is summoned just for this ability alone; however, Astral Flow is not required. There are no plans to add other Blood Pact abilities for Atomos.

That's decent.

One question:
What will the Magic accuracy of Atomos's move rely on? Magic Accuracy skill+? Main hand weapon iLevel? Ammo piece iLevel? Pet:Magic Accuracy? Pet:Physical Accuracy? or any combination of the previously mentioned?

Thanks :D.

[mattkoko]

Not going to lie, I am no smn but my main is drk and I was pretty surprised with what I was able to steal with absorb-attribute. The only mobs it did not seem to work on are those that resisted the absorb spells all together. I hope this information is useful considering it seems that they both work the same according to the dev team :D. So as long as it is not an aura or resistant to absorb type spells, it should work, even on bosses.

[Rakshaka]

Excellent; now we have a dispel ability that can be used without having to burn a ward pact. This is assuming that the blood pact that Atomos uses will behave in the same way as Zantetsuken and Perfect Defense, in that it doesn't cause any blood pact timer to go on cooldown. I'm doubly glad that I have a fast cast gear set now, seeing as how the only constraint on how often we can summon Atomos seems to just be recast time.

I often see people complain the most when the new toy that we get isn't some new game breaking overpowered thing. I think people should instead focus on the thing that makes this job special, it's versatility. Whenever I get on any job besides smn I almost immediately miss it, because on those other jobs I don't have an infinite number of tools at my disposal. We can do physical damage, we can do magical damage, we have party wide buffs (many of which are unique to us), we have varied debuffs, and some of the most awesome looking abilities around. When I get a new tool for my smn toolbox, im not looking for a hammer that's bigger than the one I already have; I'm looking for a new tool to add to my collection.

Granted, some of the tools at our disposal are broken, and NEED to be fixed (e.g. ward buffs that stopped gaining potency after level 75; please dev team, throw us a bone and adjust their potency based on avatar level), but I hope people can start appreciating the job for its variety of abilities.

[Zeargi]

Excellent; now we have a dispel ability that can be used without having to burn a ward pact. This is assuming that the blood pact that Atomos uses will behave in the same way as Zantetsuken and Perfect Defense, in that it doesn't cause any blood pact timer to go on cooldown. I'm doubly glad that I have a fast cast gear set now, seeing as how the only constraint on how often we can summon Atomos seems to just be recast time.

I often see people complain the most when the new toy that we get isn't some new game breaking overpowered thing. I think people should instead focus on the thing that makes this job special, it's versatility. Whenever I get on any job besides smn I almost immediately miss it, because on those other jobs I don't have an infinite number of tools at my disposal. We can do physical damage, we can do magical damage, we have party wide buffs (many of which are unique to us), we have varied debuffs, and some of the most awesome looking abilities around. When I get a new tool for my smn toolbox, im not looking for a hammer that's bigger than the one I already have; I'm looking for a new tool to add to my collection.

Granted, some of the tools at our disposal are broken, and NEED to be fixed (e.g. ward buffs that stopped gaining potency after level 75; please dev team, throw us a bone and adjust their potency based on avatar level), but I hope people can start appreciating the job for its variety of abilities.


In the community's defense, clarification was most definitely needed. Most were under the impression that Astral Flow would have to be used, which had it been the case, would have been horrible. A dispel effect with a 1hr recast that removes 1 effect at the cost of all your MP... You can't blame people for being mad. And comparing that to Zantetsuken and Prefect Defense, it's very disheartening, and even more so with the huge delay on putting the avatar out.

It's good to see SMN is at least getting something, but SMN is still far from where it could be. I'm hoping we can steal a DD slot now with this boost to ACC. And depending on how much the +Prep comes to be with the Avatar's Favor and hopefully no buildup, we can be considered for a DD/Support like COR. Of course, I'd still like to see a few of the Avatar's Favor changed, like Ramuh's from CRIT%+ to ACC+ or CRIT DMG+, and perhaps Fenrir's from Magic Evasion to Regain. Ifrit's and Leviathan's Favors might actually be AMAZING now. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing what this update shows.

And as you've said yourself, They do need to look into fixing our Wards as well, but maybe also look into making our Rages so they can SC higher than just the basic things. That way we can be part of the party in every way we can.

[AyinDygra]

I was hoping for something more like this. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190158&viewfull=1#post190158)

Oh well. I don't play mages anyway... just feels like it would fit FFXI better than this.

A new series of "Summon spells" would be an interesting mechanic for the job, not summoning followers, but producing instant effects, if they keep up this pattern. (already brainstormed a list of possibilities years ago) (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190156&viewfull=1#post190156)

[Rwolf]

When Atomos uses his blood pact ability while suffering from a status ailment or other effects, that effect is granted to party members.

LOL! I'm sure it's going to be fixed with emergency maintenance, but it is hilarious situational irony, that someone predicted this would happen with Atomos and it does by a known issue.

[Shirai]

Called it! :c

[Zeargi]

LOL! I'm sure it's going to be fixed with emergency maintenance, but it is hilarious situational irony, that someone predicted this would happen with Atomos and it does by a known issue.

So I tested this with steps on a crab, and didn't receive the effect of the step, and then did the same on a Wizard Skeleton.
Atomos did take the Ice Spikes, and not the steps present, so I believe that what they are actually saying is that if he is inflicted with a status ailment, himself, (E.I. Poison, Silence, etc...) then he'll pass it on. Because I stole from a Tonberry, Utsusemi, and he was still able to attack Atomos while he was summoned.

[Imakun]

I tried Atomos on a mandy outside Adoulin and it's definitely too slow to be useful. Even if you wanted to steal something you still have to Release you currently summoned Avatar to call for it, then wait for the casting time, wait for it to absorb the effect then wait some more for it to give it to the party. In the meantime the effect will have lost a significant chunk of its original duration.
If SE wants us to use it, they'll have to at least make it an instant cast like Odin and Alexander. Letting us use it while having another Avatar out would be good too.

[Rwolf]

So I tested this with steps on a crab, and didn't receive the effect of the step, and then did the same on a Wizard Skeleton.
Atomos did take the Ice Spikes, and not the steps present, so I believe that what they are actually saying is that if he is inflicted with a status ailment, himself, (E.I. Poison, Silence, etc...) then he'll pass it on. Because I stole from a Tonberry, Utsusemi, and he was still able to attack Atomos while he was summoned.

lol, I know. It was pretty clear they meant with Atomos being affected directly. I'm not saying it lines up perfectly, just saying it was funny someone theorized it might not always transfer positive buffs. Way to kill the humour.

[Zeargi]

lol, I know. It was pretty clear they meant with Atomos being affected directly. I'm not saying it lines up perfectly, just saying it was funny someone theorized it might not always transfer positive buffs. Way to kill the humour.

Mission Accomplished!

[Annalise]

Except that it wasn't theorized… It was theorized he would steal debuffs and pass them on. This is different. It sounds as if from their coding he does Absorb-Attri, gets the status, then passes on all of his statuses (which included negative because they probably did not think ahead) to everyone in range. When Atomos is debuffed there is an issue. It isn't an issue of him stealing debuffs.

[Zeargi]

I was kind of upset, gonna have to try it again. But I was in Dynamis-Tavnazia and I tried to steal the Stoneskin from the Worms as a test and.... nothing, I couldn't steal it at all. Which is vexing to say the least, if we can't even remove a simple effect like stoneskin.

[Windwhisper]

SE should lower the casting time of Athomos. Usually before i get the chance to summon him anyone with /rdm or a Brd has already casted dispel/finale. And since you cant use Athomos while having another avatar present he is "almost" obsolete