H-P Bayld aquisition

[Windwhisper]

Hello Dev-Team,

please consider some more ways to acquire H-P Bayld. For every Mythic or Relic weapon there is an event where you can actually farm the required pieces at least efficient once per day, yet there is none for Bayld.

Sure you can get lucky at each reive, but the chances are low. and to invest around 24 hours to obtain maybe 1 or 2 stacks isnt worth the time. Salvage at least gives around 150/day, Dynamis around 300/day.

As of right now Bayld is worth around 30-50k gil per piece on my server. That means alone for the last stage its around 500M gil to obtain one Ergon weapon.

I dont ask to lower the requirement, just ask to add another more efficient way to obtain these. maybe add them to high tier mission battlefields and the aged bayld box to Very Difficult Battlefields? Its just a thought. But please reconsider this.

Thanks in advance for reading~

[Tinytimtaru]

I recently requested the same thing from the DEV team:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/43647-Any-chance-we-can-have-HP-Bayld-become-more-available

Their response was:

Since Ergon Weapons have been set as extremely strong weapons, the development team does not have any plans to ease up on the process for obtaining them. With that said, there are no plans at this time to make high purity bayld more readily available.

It seems like SE has chosen no longer to support these two weapons in any capacity, in terms of adjusting availability of HP Baylds. On the bright side, a few years down the road, when you finally are able to finish one, you'll be able to tell your friends you have the hardest single weapon in the game to obtain.

My server is completely dead...barely anyone ever sells HP Bayld. SE had some great chances to place these into coffers of new content like WoE or Incursion, but nah they continue to pretend like they never created these two weapons in the first place and offer no support for the two jobs that really needed these just to be able to "sorta" compete on equal footing with the current staple of endgame jobs.

Good luck though, on your long-term quest to obtain one of these. I share your pain my friend.

[Bebekeke]

Hello Dev-Team,

please consider some more ways to acquire H-P Bayld. For every Mythic or Relic weapon there is an event where you can actually farm the required pieces at least efficient once per day, yet there is none for Bayld.

Apart from Coalition Ops, of course. And Reives.

[Malithar]

SE had some great chances to place these into coffers of new content like WoE or Incursion

While it's not common at all (opened dozens, if not easily over 100 Gramk coffers) I have gotten HPBs out of one of Gramk's coffers. IIRC, got 3. :3

HPBs have a singular problem though, and that's Bayld being tied to being possibly used in future SoA content. Whether it's people with a few hundred thousand of it saving it for WKRs, or people hoarding millions if/when they add higher ilvl gear from Peacekeepers, the Bayld is out there. But due to the possibility of it being used in the future, most aren't willing to come up off of it, unless your price is right, which ends up being 50k+, resulting in a 700+ million gil Ergon.

Beyond that, if people knew that it wouldn't be used in the future, these would be far, far easier to create. I agree that solo farming current events is inefficient in creating an Ergon, but it is what it is. For now, you need to rely on others Bayld stocks for your supply. Perhaps in the future when the game moves past SoA, there will be a major overhall, as without one, Ergons would become by far the hardest RMEs to create.

[Zarchery]

This would certainly explain why last week, when I had 130 High Purity Bayld to sell, they sold almost instantly after I did my /yell.

How does anyone actually know how to do these Rune Fencer and Geomancer quests anyway? I can't find a single writeup on FFXIClopedia or BG Wiki. How many HP Bayld do you need?

[Malithar]

This would certainly explain why last week, when I had 130 High Purity Bayld to sell, they sold almost instantly after I did my /yell.

How does anyone actually know how to do these Rune Fencer and Geomancer quests anyway? I can't find a single writeup on FFXIClopedia or BG Wiki. How many HP Bayld do you need?

Yeah, supply doesn't really last long unless it's overpriced, and eve then, there's quiet a few out and about that are desperate to grab up any supply that pops up.

As for a writeup, for the most part, the quests are fairly self explanatory. The details are in various threads spread about on FFXIAH and BG, but I don't recall which. As for a total HPB count, 13,099. You also need Legend in all 6 Coalitions, as well as 200 of each NQ Skirmish stone, Ghastly, Verd, and Wailing, 2.5 million plasm to buy a rare/ex item, and 6 semi random-ish Delve boss mats (seemed to follow a pattern of 2x pricey mats, 1x food mat) spread across two turn ins, for the two tiers of Delve.

[Windwhisper]

Apart from Coalition Ops, of course. And Reives.

Yes :) 2 HPB/day since best output doing Courrier is around 20K normal Bayld/day

I suppose i have to live with the last stage of 400-500 Million gil. What i dont all do for a job i like...

[Lostrose]

The acquisition rate for H-P Bayld is absolutely ridiculous and totally disproportionate compared to other end game weapons, including other mythics.

“Since Ergon Weapons have been set as extremely strong weapons, the development team does not have any plans to ease up on the process for obtaining them.”

This is totally ridiculous argument, ergon weapons aren’t by any means stronger than other mythics for their respective jobs, or even horn for BRD for example (which is pathetically easy to obtain compared to these).

Even more annoying, the low supply has created a “scamming” attitude with players that just buy whatever H-P Bayld they can find at a reasonable cost, hording hundreds of them, and then try and re-sell at 40, 50, 100K each to desperate buyers. This cannot heavily happen for other currencies as there is such a high availability that it simply wouldn’t work. Players that want to build these weapons now have to compete with hordes of these guys trying to make an easy profit.
SE please do something about this, this content is simply not balanced and unfair to those players that want to make RUN or GEO their main job.

[Liteholt]

I'm not quite sure where this whole attitude of "H-P Bayld is hard to get" comes from. I myself can go out to Marjami, Kamhir, or Yorcia as a solo DNC, pull out my trusts, and just travel around smiting Lair and Colonization Reives. In those three zones, I average 5k bayld per Colonization, and 2-4k per Lair. So a good day's work, I can stack up enough bayld for 10 or more H-Ps. Sure, it would take a while to get the 13,000 or so that would be needed to finish a weapon... but look at it compared to Alexandrite or Dynamis coins. You can farm bayld almost anywhere in Adoulin with extreme ease, and can farm it all day long if you want. Dynamis you get 2 hours per day, Alex you get 1 hour 40 min (and even then, depending on which zone you do, you have a differing amount of guaranteed pieces, and have to get pretty deep into the zone before you get anything at all).

[Protey]

It seems like SE has chosen no longer to support these two weapons in any capacity, in terms of adjusting availability of HP Baylds. On the bright side, a few years down the road, when you finally are able to finish one, you'll be able to tell your friends you have the hardest single weapon in the game to obtain. .

the GEO/RUN weapons are not the hardest to make, just time consuming. They are soloable. The hardest weapons to make are mythics as there are certain assaults that just can't be solo'd, like lebros supplies (assuming, like me, you aren't one of those people that moves a million miles per hour)

[Lostrose]

I don't know what server you come from but here in Odin I am lucky if I get 2K bayld per lair reive as there are usually 3,4, or more ppl on them in all zones pretty much at all times. I am actually lucky if I find them up even; lets forget about colonization reives. Was able to fight 1 in over 2 hours.....
Yes salvage and dynamis are alimited amount of time but percentage wise you get more accomplished in 1.5 hours of salvage towards a mythic then farming bayld 24hrs a day towards an Ergon.... Please stop this nonsense and do some real calculations.....

Also ppl are bazaring litterally thousands of alex and currency every single day in Upper Jeuno. My husband started a mythic a month after I started my ergon, we play roughly the same amount of time and do the same events, well he is 5-6 times ahead of me already with much less effort.

I am sorry but it is obvious that people saying ergon are easier to get didn't work out the numbers....

Calculating to obtain 150 alex from a salvage run:

(150 * 13,099)/30,000 = 65

I would have to make 650,000 bayld per day to compare to 1.5 hours of salvage run.... gimme a break......
Also most ppl do not just farm alex but also buy it.... well too bad H-P Bayld in bazzar = 0

[Lostrose]

the GEO/RUN weapons are not the hardest to make, just time consuming. They are soloable. The hardest weapons to make are mythics as there are certain assaults that just can't be solo'd, like lebros supplies (assuming, like me, you aren't one of those people that moves a million miles per hour)
Sure because 2.5M plasma points can be soloed.... you can shout 5 min and get a couple buddies to do assaults.... most of them can be soloed anyway...

[detlef]

I'm not quite sure where this whole attitude of "H-P Bayld is hard to get" comes from. I myself can go out to Marjami, Kamhir, or Yorcia as a solo DNC, pull out my trusts, and just travel around smiting Lair and Colonization Reives. In those three zones, I average 5k bayld per Colonization, and 2-4k per Lair. So a good day's work, I can stack up enough bayld for 10 or more H-Ps. Sure, it would take a while to get the 13,000 or so that would be needed to finish a weapon... but look at it compared to Alexandrite or Dynamis coins. You can farm bayld almost anywhere in Adoulin with extreme ease, and can farm it all day long if you want. Dynamis you get 2 hours per day, Alex you get 1 hour 40 min (and even then, depending on which zone you do, you have a differing amount of guaranteed pieces, and have to get pretty deep into the zone before you get anything at all).Question, how many hours is "a good day's work?" 100k bayld is no joke, and for 10 H-P Bayld? Even if you priced them at 100k each (which is much more than the going rate and would make Ergon weapons cost over 1.3 billion gil), the gil/hour is still worse than Salvage or Dynamis.

No event reliably drops H-P Bayld except WKR, which cost the equivalent of 1.5 H-P Bayld to join. The only reliable ways to get it that are worth the effort are Courier's Coalition and AFK botting lair reives. I don't condone the latter but if not for those people I can't even imagine how dry the market would be.

[Tinytimtaru]

Well I can only hope the ridiculously low supplies of HP Bayld across all servers is being taken into consideration and possibly addressed as part of this planning phase:


We currently do not have any plans to boost the amount of Heavy Metal Plates or other similar materials when dropped, but we do understand the demand for these items.

Though still in the planning stage, the development team is looking into increasing the opportunities to obtain these items. We’ll keep you posted on the progress!

Personally, I would make HP Bayld guaranteed drops from Colonization Rieves and have the Aged Boxes of HP Bayld guaranteed drops from WKR. That would address the pathetic amounts of HP Bayld we're seeing across all server economies and hopefully counter the absurd amounts of price gouging.

[Lostrose]

1) Bonus Bayld Campaign
Lair, colonization, and wildkeeper reives will receive evaluation bonuses throughout the duration, doubling bayld and experience gains.

Great way to deal with the botting problem...

[Zarchery]

1) Bonus Bayld Campaign
Lair, colonization, and wildkeeper reives will receive evaluation bonuses throughout the duration, doubling bayld and experience gains.

Great way to deal with the botting problem...

How is botting a problem if it's increasing the supply of H-P Bayld?

[Hoshi]

Is it really a problem? Speaking as someone who is buying H-P Bayld, if these players weren't farming bayld nonstop I don't know how the ergon weapons would ever get made. I've been farming bayld myself from my mules imprimaturs. I think after about 6 months of not wasting a tag I will end up with 1 million bayld per mule (101 h-p). I have been farming yorcia skirmish which is slightly faster but buying up all the parts on the server I am only able to generate about 4,000 h-p through that route and the time invested for that is substantial. The rest of the h-p I am buying from other players. Most people selling have 1 - 20 h-p but the farmers usually provide me with 50 - 100 a day. I am not able to buy from all of the farmers because some of them want far more than I can afford and all of them sell out fast. I will end up having to buy roughly 8,500 h-p from the server and at 200 a day it is going to take me 42 days of diligently camping bazaars to finish. Unfortunately I have a real life and a job and I can't camp bazaars 24 hours a day. Attack the farmers all you like but in my opinion they are providing a useful service to those of us who want to make ergon weapons.

I should probably add that the best answer would be if SE would make H-P Bayld more available. If there was a better supply people would not bot lair reives. I will also reiterate that just because someone is fighting a lair reive it does not prevent you from also joining it (which I did several times while trying to get credit for imp rankups). Beat them to the trash mobs and take hits and deal damage and you will still get full credit. Also from a time spent standpoint I think lair reives are a miserable way to farm bayld. You get between 1000 and 2000 bayld. If you're interested in farming bayld from reives it seems like wildskeeper reives would be the better route.

[Malithar]

Is it really a problem? Speaking as someone who is buying H-P Bayld, if these players weren't farming bayld nonstop I don't know how the ergon weapons would ever get made. I've been farming bayld myself from my mules imprimaturs. I think after about 6 months of not wasting a tag I will end up with 1 million bayld per mule (101 h-p). I have been farming yorcia skirmish which is slightly faster but buying up all the parts on the server I am only able to generate about 4,000 h-p through that route and the time invested for that is substantial. The rest of the h-p I am buying from other players. Most people selling have 1 - 20 h-p but the farmers usually provide me with 50 - 100 a day. I am not able to buy from all of the farmers because some of them want far more than I can afford and all of them sell out fast. I will end up having to buy roughly 8,500 h-p from the server and at 200 a day it is going to take me 42 days of diligently camping bazaars to finish. Unfortunately I have a real life and a job and I can't camp bazaars 24 hours a day. Attack the farmers all you like but in my opinion they are providing a useful service to those of us who want to make ergon weapons.

Quoting for emphasis. It's not so much that botting reives is the problem, but that gaining HPBs is a problem. I really do think SE meant well when they made HPBs buyable with 10k Bayld, assuming everyone sitting on millions of Bayld would convert it. That however isn't the case, since it's an active currency for SoA. Just this last update saw a new use added for it, 300k to exchange your mission ring. What about if/when ilvl increases and the Peacekeepers offer new gear for Bayld? Things like that will continue to keep the general population from selling off their Bayld reserves, while those who are willing to bot reives supply the materials needed for Ergons to even exist. Without them, I highly doubt there'd be as many finished as there are. And even then, there's still very few completed Ergons across the servers.

[detlef]

There is a point to be made that SE will look at current rate of H-P Bayld generation and decide that the current amounts are adequate when they really aren't.

[Hoshi]

That's possible I guess and that would be a shame =/. I would argue even the current rate of generation is insufficient.

[Protey]

Sure because 2.5M plasma points can be soloed.... you can shout 5 min and get a couple buddies to do assaults.... most of them can be soloed anyway...

you are far far more likely to get people to participate in a delve shout than you are to get people to participate in an assault shout.

[Protey]

I don't know what server you come from but here in Odin I am lucky if I get 2K bayld per lair reive as there are usually 3,4, or more ppl on them in all zones pretty much at all times. I am actually lucky if I find them up even; lets forget about colonization reives. Was able to fight 1 in over 2 hours.....
Yes salvage and dynamis are alimited amount of time but percentage wise you get more accomplished in 1.5 hours of salvage towards a mythic then farming bayld 24hrs a day towards an Ergon.... Please stop this nonsense and do some real calculations.....

Also ppl are bazaring litterally thousands of alex and currency every single day in Upper Jeuno. My husband started a mythic a month after I started my ergon, we play roughly the same amount of time and do the same events, well he is 5-6 times ahead of me already with much less effort.

I am sorry but it is obvious that people saying ergon are easier to get didn't work out the numbers....

Calculating to obtain 150 alex from a salvage run:

(150 * 13,099)/30,000 = 65

I would have to make 650,000 bayld per day to compare to 1.5 hours of salvage run.... gimme a break......
Also most ppl do not just farm alex but also buy it.... well too bad H-P Bayld in bazzar = 0

more time =/= more difficult.

[Lostrose]

I am sorry but I do not and will not support botters, they are NOT the solution to the ergon problem. They are scammers that take advantage of a quest that was lamely handled by SE. SE needs to fix and rebalance the quest so everybody gets a chance to make these weapons without supporting illegal ways of farming.

I am totally aware that 90% of the H-P Baylds come from botters but I wish SE would find the time to add a resonable farming option like salvage and dynamis. That would be the solution to the problem; not lame patch ups like the recent events.

[Protey]

I am sorry but I do not and will not support botters, they are NOT the solution to the ergon problem. They are scammers that take advantage of a quest that was lamely handled by SE. SE needs to fix and rebalance the quest so everybody gets a chance to make these weapons without supporting illegal ways of farming.

I am totally aware that 90% of the H-P Baylds come from botters but I wish SE would find the time to add a resonable farming option like salvage and dynamis. That would be the solution to the problem; not lame patch ups like the resent events.

agreed, to a point. I still think weapons that are this powerful should be a grind to get. One should have to really dedicate themselves (like mythics) to obtaining them. I wish relics were more difficult to get, but unfortunately they are not. So while I think that HP-bayld obtainment rate should increase... only to a point where it would take 8 months of daily farming for about 45 minutes to get (that is comparable to mythics: 30,000 alex / ~125 alex per day = 240 days).

[Hoshi]

It is not in the least bit comparable currently. Actively farming WKR and other reives I am lucky to get 20 HP Bayld a day. If I buy the bayld at server price it will cost me 524 million gil. Meanwhile a mythic can be made for 210 million gil. Having recently made a mythic (of which I farmed slightly over a third of the alex myself) I can assure you that most of the requirements were not in the least challenging and required little commitment. There are a few assaults which can pose a challenge (maybe 4 of them). If you make friends with other players interested in making mythics then finding people to do nyzul and einherjar is easy. The biggest challenge to making a mythic is the fact that the tag only respawns once every 24 hours. If there were some sort of system in place where it was as easy to make an ergon weapon as it is to make a mythic I would be delighted.

[Protey]

Having recently made a mythic (of which I farmed slightly over a third of the alex myself) I can assure you that most of the requirements were not in the least challenging and required little commitment.


little commitment? unless you are a botter/buying gil you are full of crap. And you don't need to assure me of anything, I'm almost done with my 5th mythic. Only a few assaults are challenging, the rest are easy solo. Nyzul can pose a problem solo if you get bad lamp floors, but if you are lucky there are other people on your server that are making mythics that will let you join their runs. Einherjar T3 is an easy duo for ichor. There is no challenge in making ergon weapons, it's just a grind.



The biggest challenge to making a mythic is the fact that the tag only respawns once every 24 hours.

Clearly false. It is the assaults that can't be solo'd that are the biggest challenge.


If there were some sort of system in place where it was as easy to make an ergon weapon as it is to make a mythic I would be delighted.

There is nothing difficult about obtaining ergon weapons, it is just a grind. This might change though once another expansion comes out and people stop doing delve and therefore plasm gets more difficult to obtain. But until then, the limiting factor is how much you have to grind.

[Hoshi]

I clearly can't change your opinion, so you are welcome to it.

[Malithar]

Nyzul can pose a problem solo if you get bad lamp floors, but if you are lucky there are other people on your server that are making mythics that will let you join their runs.
Nyzul gets a pass because if you're lucky there's other people doing it. K.

Clearly false. It is the assaults that can't be solo'd that are the biggest challenge.
What happened to getting lucky?

Everyone has different opinions on what's considered "hard." No need to throw around accusations of botting/buying gil when proclaiming that you're almost done with your 5th Mythic doesn't exactly bode well for that anyways. The difficult/grind/omgwtfsohard point of Ergons is the HPB grind, specifically, getting it from other people. Because if you're getting it on your own, we may as well reserve congratulations for the year 2016. The group content oriented difficulty is Plasm, similar to those 3-4 Assaults and Nyzul that you need for Mythics that you can't solo. It doesn't mean that either of those tasks are actually difficult just that you can't easily do them on your own.

[Protey]

Nyzul gets a pass because if you're lucky there's other people doing it. K.

What happened to getting lucky?

Everyone has different opinions on what's considered "hard." No need to throw around accusations of botting/buying gil when proclaiming that you're almost done with your 5th Mythic doesn't exactly bode well for that anyways. The difficult/grind/omgwtfsohard point of Ergons is the HPB grind, specifically, getting it from other people. Because if you're getting it on your own, we may as well reserve congratulations for the year 2016. The group content oriented difficulty is Plasm, similar to those 3-4 Assaults and Nyzul that you need for Mythics that you can't solo. It doesn't mean that either of those tasks are actually difficult just that you can't easily do them on your own.


you have a problem with reading comprehension. the botting/buying gil comment was referring to "little commitment" comment from the other poster. and you have some audacity to say "doesn't bode well for that anyways" just because someone actually accomplishes things in this game. wouldn't surprise me if you think people are botters/gil buyers if they have anything other than sparks gear. As to your comment about plasm in relation to assaults.... delve is the "in" thing to do. try shouting for assaults and see how long it takes to get people for it. likewise try shouting for delve and see how long it takes to get people for it. The second one probably won't take more than a couple minutes to fill up. The first one you probably won't fill up at all. Most of the assaults that can't be solo'd can be done with about 3 people, but not so much with Lebros Supplies. Pretty much need 5, though if you have the right jobs and gear you might be able to get away with 4. This is why the assault portion of mythics is hard and the plasm portion is not. The rest of the requirements for both types of weapons is just grind. not difficult at all. nyzul can be solo'd, it may just take a few more tries due to bad lamp floors. alexandrite is time commitment, just like HP-bayld. therion ichor can be solo'd, though i recommend duo depending on job choices.

I said it before and I'll say it again.... more time =/= more difficult.

[Malithar]

the botting/buying gil comment was referring to "little commitment" comment from the other poster.
And their "little commitment" comment was in regards to the requirements other than Alexandrite, which, as they said, requires little. How does botting/buying gil factor into ichor, tokens, and assaults? Maybe you should check your own reading comprehension?


and you have some audacity to say "doesn't bode well for that anyways" just because someone actually accomplishes things in this game. wouldn't surprise me if you think people are botters/gil buyers if they have anything other than sparks gear.
I run with a group that accomplishes everything the game has to offer, so no, I don't think anyone with more than sparks gear bots. And I know people with multiple RMEs. But the only one I know that has 6 mythics used the Salvage glitch to fund three of them. Bode well != accusation of botting, was more a situation of the pot calling the kettle black.

As to your comment about plasm in relation to assaults.... delve is the "in" thing to do. try shouting for assaults and see how long it takes to get people for it. likewise try shouting for delve and see how long it takes to get people for it. The second one probably won't take more than a couple minutes to fill up. The first one you probably won't fill up at all. Most of the assaults that can't be solo'd can be done with about 3 people, but not so much with Lebros Supplies. Pretty much need 5, though if you have the right jobs and gear you might be able to get away with 4. This is why the assault portion of mythics is hard and the plasm portion is not.
And I'd argue that if you're having to rely on shout groups to get the plasm you need for your Ergon, more than likely, you're not in a position to get it easily. I'm not one of those people that run around screaming Delve is hard, I know it's not. But if you're shouting for Delve, the quality of people you're going to get are going to make it hard. And if you've got a LS that runs it? Great, awesome, you prolly already got your Plasm, and if not, I'm sure you'd clear it with ease. That goes equal for the Assaults. If you have friends/LS members, the few that aren't soloable will be knocked out, without issue. If there is issues, then perhaps its time to find a better circle of people to be around.

Where as you say more time =/= more difficult, I (and others it seems) say needing to be socialable in an MMO =/= more difficult.


The rest of the requirements for both types of weapons is just grind. not difficult at all. nyzul can be solo'd, it may just take a few more tries due to bad lamp floors. alexandrite is time commitment, just like HP-bayld. therion ichor can be solo'd, though i recommend duo depending on job choices.

We agree here, but you're failing to see that the grind for HPBs is not realistically possible for a single person, even multiple people, to complete in a reasonable time frame. Alexandrite is. Not only is it reasonable to solo it, it's readily available in bazaars all across the game if you'd rather buy it.

HPBs? Not so, at all. In the last stretch for my own Ergon I was paying upwards of 45k for the final few hundred pieces. I had reached my limits gil wise, I spent nearly 550 mil total on it. Of the 13099 HPBs needed, I personally obtained less then 450 of them through weeks of Reives, farming Bayld, and spending my banked 1.5 mil that I had when they were added. This wasn't due to "not trying" or saying eh, I'll just buy it. This was putting together Skirmish Bayld farms, spending any free time I had doing Reive rotations (for anyone building and actually entertaining Reives, Foret was the best with 15ish total Reives in the area IMO), going to every WKR that I possibly could, and buying up every single piece of HPB I could find, while shouting in towns to convert Bayld into HPBs anytime I was in town. The effort was immense, and there were days where I saw little progress. Others, I'd have a dozen people or so convert Bayld, sometimes they had a million, other times they had 30k. It was demoralizing to not be capable of making steady, meaningful progress. But the end result was worth it. That grind though, that's the work behind Ergons. Fool yourself some more that 3-4 Assaults begin to compare to camping people's Bayld.

[Hoshi]

So much what Malithar said. I have a linkshell full of friends who run content. We make mythics together which makes assaults, ein, and nyzul a breeze. We spam delve together and I am currently sitting on 5 million plasm (after spending about 10 mil). I don't join shout groups and I rarely shout. The only thing I have to shout for in this game is H-P Bayld because it is rare and it is impossible to solo it or rely just on your friends to attain it.

[Protey]

And their "little commitment" comment was in regards to the requirements other than Alexandrite, which, as they said, requires little. How does botting/buying gil factor into ichor, tokens, and assaults? Maybe you should check your own reading comprehension?


I can assure you that most of the requirements were not in the least challenging and required little commitment.

Where in that statement does it say other than alexandrite? you could possibly say she wasn't referring to alexandrite.... but then let's look at that. If you were making an art project; you needed 150,000 grains of sand, 100,000 grains of salt, 50 sheets of paper, and 30,000 diamonds. If you asked 99% of people they would tell you the majority of the requirements in making that art project is the 30,000 diamonds. Why? Because the other requirements aren't really that much of a requirement. Let's look at it another way by making everything equivalent: The 100k Ichor requires 53 iterations of T3 Einherjar, or 530 minutes of time = ~9h. Tokens, let's say you aren't doing so well and only averaging 3k a run, that would be 50 runs or 25h. Assaults on average take about 10 minutes, but I will fluff up the #s to your favor and average it to 15 minutes, that's 750 minutes = 12.5 hours. Now we come to the Alexandrite; ~210million gils worth. If you farm all of that yourself you are looking at (30,000 alexandrite / ~125 alex per run)(~35 minutes per run) = 8,400 minutes or 140 hours. You might say that you buy the alex... ok, how long does it take you to get gil? Let's say you are averaging 2 million gil an hour, that's still 105 hours. Still over double all of the other requirements combined.


I run with a group that accomplishes everything the game has to offer, so no, I don't think anyone with more than sparks gear bots. And I know people with multiple RMEs. But the only one I know that has 6 mythics used the Salvage glitch to fund three of them. Bode well != accusation of botting, was more a situation of the pot calling the kettle black.

where did i say accusation? i didn't, yet again you and your poor reading comprehension. You are insinuating. Just like "pot calling the kettle black". It is poor form of argumentation and used to instill bias. and i will reiterate what i said before, sounds like you're jealous and so anyone who has something must clearly be cheating. Mythics have been out for over 7 years. You do the math, getting 5 is quite easy by this amount of time. I have done over 2,000 runs of salvage to give you an idea. If only counting exactly 2,000 runs, I would only need to average 75 alex per run to get 5 mythics worth.






We agree here, but you're failing to see that the grind for HPBs is not realistically possible for a single person, even multiple people, to complete in a reasonable time frame. Alexandrite is. Not only is it reasonable to solo it, it's readily available in bazaars all across the game if you'd rather buy it.

again, i'll say you have poor reading comprehension:


agreed, to a point. I still think weapons that are this powerful should be a grind to get. One should have to really dedicate themselves (like mythics) to obtaining them. I wish relics were more difficult to get, but unfortunately they are not. So while I think that HP-bayld obtainment rate should increase... only to a point where it would take 8 months of daily farming for about 45 minutes to get (that is comparable to mythics: 30,000 alex / ~125 alex per day = 240 days).


That grind though, that's the work behind Ergons. Fool yourself some more that 3-4 Assaults begin to compare to camping people's Bayld.


I never said Ergons didn't require work. Never even insinuated it. In fact, just the opposite. My argument is that Ergons are not difficult. They are just a grind. They will not become difficult to make until the vast majority of people don't do delve anymore (like the vast majority of people don't do assaults anymore). Though I do suppose one could just pay people to do the assaults/delve. I still have an issue with Imperial Agent Rescue though. That assault I have the toughest time with even if I bring others. Maybe if I try capping it at level 70 that would work.

[Hoshi]

Do you honestly think the alex is hard to acquire? When you were complaining that mythics are more difficult than ergon weapons to make, I thought that certainly you meant the nyzul runs or the assaults. You have 5 mythics. This is not 2011. Did you make no money in the last two years from ADL farms, delve clears, HTBF drops, or crafting? I already said in my post that I farmed a bit over 10,000 alex on my own and bought the rest. I ran salvage twice a day although I've almost got another two mules to 99 to make that 4x a day for the next mythic. What's more alex is plentiful. Half the bazaars you check contain it. I certainly wouldn't compare it to diamonds at this point, more like gravel.

[Protey]

Do you honestly think the alex is hard to acquire? When you were complaining that mythics are more difficult than ergon weapons to make, I thought that certainly you meant the nyzul runs or the assaults. You have 5 mythics. This is not 2011. Did you make no money in the last two years from ADL farms, delve clears, HTBF drops, or crafting? I already said in my post that I farmed a bit over 10,000 alex on my own and bought the rest. I ran salvage twice a day although I've almost got another two mules to 99 to make that 4x a day for the next mythic. What's more alex is plentiful. Half the bazaars you check contain it. I certainly wouldn't compare it to diamonds at this point, more like gravel.

where did i say alex is hard to acquire? i didn't. i said that it is a grind. which it is. you either farm it yourself for about 240 runs, buy it with about $210mil, or a combination thereof. Grind =/= Difficult. It's just mind drudging work. Why diamonds? because the effort required to obtain them is vastly greater than that of Ichor, Tokens, and Pages. What does me making gil have to do with anything? What does you farming 10,000 and buying the rest have to do with anything? What does alex being plentiful have to do with anything? You still have to acquire it yourself, obtain gil to buy it, or a combination thereof. Same with HP-Bayld. I see about 1,000 H-P Bayld in bazaars on my server, don't know about yours. If it isn't available on your server, maybe it is time to switch, if even temporarily to buy from other servers.

[Loir]

where did i say alex is hard to acquire? i didn't. i said that it is a grind. which it is. you either farm it yourself for about 240 runs, buy it with about $210mil, or a combination thereof. Grind =/= Difficult. It's just mind drudging work. Why diamonds? because the effort required to obtain them is vastly greater than that of Ichor, Tokens, and Pages. What does me making gil have to do with anything? What does you farming 10,000 and buying the rest have to do with anything? What does alex being plentiful have to do with anything? You still have to acquire it yourself, obtain gil to buy it, or a combination thereof. Same with HP-Bayld. I see about 1,000 H-P Bayld in bazaars on my server, don't know about yours. If it isn't available on your server, maybe it is time to switch, if even temporarily to buy from other servers.
Obvious troll is obvious. That or you are so spastic about flip-flopping back and forth on this. Nothing along the mythic path requires effort and nothing along the mythic path is difficult. Nothing along the ergon path is readily difficult or containing much effort at all either. The issue being the supply of H.P. Bayld in relation to the supply of alex since these were meant to be comparable progression in terms of upgrades for the two SoA jobs. Its great to hear on your backwater server that HP bayld is plentiful but sadly since Asura is one of the happening hot-spots to be for N.A. servers there are probably ~10 people making ergon weapons at this point on ours.

[Protey]

Obvious troll is obvious. That or you are so spastic about flip-flopping back and forth on this. Nothing along the mythic path requires effort and nothing along the mythic path is difficult. Nothing along the ergon path is readily difficult or containing much effort at all either. The issue being the supply of H.P. Bayld in relation to the supply of alex since these were meant to be comparable progression in terms of upgrades for the two SoA jobs. Its great to hear on your backwater server that HP bayld is plentiful but sadly since Asura is one of the happening hot-spots to be for N.A. servers there are probably ~10 people making ergon weapons at this point on ours.

your definition of "effort" is strange. or you are a troll. or you are a gil buyer/botter. take your pick. Last I checked, either farming massive amounts of alexandrite/HP Bayld or farming gil to buy said items requires "effort".

[Loir]

your definition of "effort" is strange. or you are a troll. or you are a gil buyer/botter. take your pick. Last I checked, either farming massive amounts of alexandrite/HP Bayld or farming gil to buy said items requires "effort".
Take your strawman argument elsewhere. The discussion is quantity of H.P. bayld available from current sources not coming anywhere close to a reasonable demand for the player base and not possible to self-farm the supply to finish an ergon by contrast to what is available with alexandrite and its farming methods.

[Protey]

Take your strawman argument elsewhere. The discussion is quantity of H.P. bayld available from current sources not coming anywhere close to a reasonable demand for the player base and not possible to self-farm the supply to finish an ergon by contrast to what is available with alexandrite and its farming methods.

you obviously don't know the definition of strawman. i will help you out. "The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition."

you said neither mythic nor ergon weapons require effort. i did a logical analysis on what reasons you could possibly have for saying that. then i refuted that the weapons don't require effort (which was your proposition). i did not covertly replace it with a different proposition. stop making stuff up. you are incorrect that it is not possible to self-farm HP Bayld. If you mean within a certain amount of time, that I would agree too, but you failed to state that. As to your declaring what the argument is about... who declared you in charge of deciding that? If you paid attention, you would see it was also about difficulty vs effort. If you were referring to the OP, then yes that is correct; however, other posters have branched the discussion. And as to your calling my server "backwater", maybe we aren't as incompetent as yours. Maybe you could do something about it.... like switch servers. All I hear is oh, woe is me. People have switched servers to get alex, marrows, and other items. why not go to others that have a more plentiful supply to get your HP Bayld.

[Loir]

your definition of "effort" is strange. or you are a troll. or you are a gil buyer/botter. take your pick. Last I checked, either farming massive amounts of alexandrite/HP Bayld or farming gil to buy said items requires "effort".
Botter troll gil buyer, used how many times in this discussion to people denouncing your opinion on effort being used regards to mythic and ergon. The discussion was in regards to the original post and I have already stated that in contrast to the farminig methods for alexandrite and relation to the supply that HP bayld is severly lacking in that regard. Your server is incompetent, you are proof enough it seems.

[Protey]

Botter troll gil buyer, used how many times in this discussion to people denouncing your opinion on effort being used regards to mythic and ergon. The discussion was in regards to the original post and I have already stated that in contrast to the farminig methods for alexandrite and relation to the supply that HP bayld is severly lacking in that regard. Your server is incompetent, you are proof enough it seems.

my responses were logical reasonings for what they chose to say, it was not on effort being used regards to mythic and ergon, but rather people stating that it doesn't require effort. Please explain how getting hundreds of millions of gil worth of items doesn't require effort? I can only think of botting/gil buying. If you have another way of obtaining without effort, please provide one.

If you paid attention to what I said, I already agreed before that HP Bayld acquisition is low and should be made comparable to that of mythics... but hey you don't bother to mention that.

How am I proof that my server is incompetent? Or is this another one of your false logical arguments?

[Loir]

my responses were logical reasonings for what they chose to say, it was not on effort being used regards to mythic and ergon, but rather people stating that it doesn't require effort. Please explain how getting hundreds of millions of gil worth of items doesn't require effort? I can only think of botting/gil buying. If you have another way of obtaining without effort, please provide one.

If you paid attention to what I said, I already agreed before that HP Bayld acquisition is low and should be made comparable to that of mythics... but hey you don't bother to mention that.

How am I proof that my server is incompetent? Or is this another one of your false logical arguments?
Logical in the most narrow minded view sure, the effort is trivial, time sinks always are hence the concept of time sinks. It is not in my need to reiterate your point or lack there of and proof of incompetence is this entire interaction.

[Protey]

Logical in the most narrow minded view sure, the effort is trivial, time sinks always are hence the concept of time sinks. It is not in my need to reiterate your point or lack there of and proof of incompetence is this entire interaction.

i don't see how one can consider spending hundreds of hours just to obtain an item as "trivial". unless you are immortal and so time has little meaning. are you immortal?

well you were part of this interaction.... so that means you are calling yourself incompetent.

[Loir]

i don't see how one can consider spending hundreds of hours just to obtain an item as "trivial". unless you are immortal and so time has little meaning. are you immortal?

well you were part of this interaction.... so that means you are calling yourself incompetent. Right, at this point you are purposely being obtuse.

[Protey]

Right, at this point you are purposely being obtuse.

nope, just sinking to the lowest level... yours. because that seems to be all that you understand.

[Loir]

nope, just sinking to the lowest level... yours. because that seems to be all that you understand.
That must be the case, but I think you had to find a ladder to get here.

[dasva]

Oh man this turned into an episode of Jerry Springer fast

[Lostrose]

I think the point of this thread was totally lost.... I don't know why Protey is so touchy about Mythics, but I am sorry this is not the thread to post about it. This thread was made because the HPB supply is too low compared to demand, and the acquisition methods are not balanced compared to other weapons. If you want to complain about Mythics please open another thread <.< and stop ranting about it.

[Olor]

HP Bayld is at 30-35K on Asura. Frankly, that's TOO LOW for me to even consider bothering putting any effort into farming them, as I could make way more money spending my time doing other things. I see hundreds of them are available on the server, so I don't get why people are complaining. If people want more supply they should try offering more gil for them.

As one poster noted, it's a lot of bother getting enough bayld to convert them... and imo it's way more tedious than dynamis.

[Malithar]

HP Bayld is at 30-35K on Asura. Frankly, that's TOO LOW for me to even consider bothering putting any effort into farming them, as I could make way more money spending my time doing other things.
That's largely the point of the thread.


I see hundreds of them are available on the server, so I don't get why people are complaining.

Remember fish botting? Remember the rampant "omg SE ban all these botters!!!!!1" threads here? Fishing 2.0 is the only viable long term grind for HPBs. You can find many Reives in areas such as Outer Ra'kaznar botted 24/7. Check in after a few days or whatever, go cash in your millions of bayld, list HPBs for whatever, sell because you're supplying the only viable source of them, ???, profit.


If people want more supply they should try offering more gil for them. As one poster noted, it's a lot of bother getting enough bayld to convert them... and imo it's way more tedious than dynamis.

Paying more is silly. Some servers are stuck in a 50k selling range as is, these server's Ergons cost over 650 million gil just for the HPB phase, though no other requirements are much of a gil investment anymore. Still fairly excessive. And due to the lack of Bayld/HPBs you get from legit grinding, I don't think I'd personally grind it for profit without it being in the neighborhood of 80k+, drops are rare, respawns on Reives are slow in most areas, and the Bayld you do gain is miniscule in the grand scheme of the total required. For reference, it's the equivalent of 131,000,000 Bayld you'll need. At my own height of farming, I was lucky to make the equivalent of 70-80k Bayld (Bayld + HPB drops) in an hour. At any point, someone else could show up and decide to do a Reive, or perhaps it repops before I got there and they need to get past it, lowering my hourly take.

Even if they didn't, when lucky, I could accomplish ~0.06% progress in an hour. Comparatively, Mythics in an absolute worst case scenario (50 linen, no cotten, 30ish or whatever from trash) could get ~0.2%. Bump that up to a more realistic number, maybe a lil luck but still not counting 2x linen, and you're looking at ~0.5% progress in an hour.

These points have been covered in the thread extensively. Only real defense to it IMO is ignorance of the botting situation behind HPBs acquisition.

[dasva]

While still sucking I averaged more like 3 HPB and some change after converting an hour just sticking with 1 lair zerging it fast then waiting 5 min. Might be better now that I'm killing faster idk. Before the market on skirmish parts tanked used to a lot off of those but now it's averaging around 15k or an hour after selling them based on how fast I've been selling lately. Then a tiny bit from npcing. All told it's probably around what Hakryu fishing was before the nerf (which granted was kinda crappy gil/hr) but almost all of it is relying on the market which is no fun. On the other hand you also get xp, sparks, cp and ac as well

[Protey]

I think the point of this thread was totally lost.... I don't know why Protey is so touchy about Mythics, but I am sorry this is not the thread to post about it. This thread was made because the HPB supply is too low compared to demand, and the acquisition methods are not balanced compared to other weapons. If you want to complain about Mythics please open another thread <.< and stop ranting about it.

you say not to talk about mythics... then you go right into comparing ergons to other weapons. hypocritical much?

and if you want to talk about balance... make sure in your drive for balance you push to have relics more difficult to get.

[Hoshi]

Actually, looking at progress per hour, if you have control of 6 characters doing yorcia in and outs puts you at .4% progress per hour (assuming you average 16 runs an hour - 52.8 hpb). It also lowers the cost of the weapon substantially (although what is your time worth). With that being said the supply of skirmish parts is finite and having control of 6 characters may not be possible for everyone.

[Olor]

. Only real defense to it IMO is ignorance of the botting situation behind HPBs acquisition.

I did read about the botting in the thread... I just don't see how increasing the supply helps here, other than making it even less interesting for players to farm them, thereby increasing the incentive for botters.

Anyway, I don't think it's perfect as is, obviously but making the price on them lower (via increasing supply) isn't going to convince more characters to farm them.

[Malithar]

I did read about the botting in the thread... I just don't see how increasing the supply helps here, other than making it even less interesting for players to farm them, thereby increasing the incentive for botters.

Anyway, I don't think it's perfect as is, obviously but making the price on them lower (via increasing supply) isn't going to convince more characters to farm them.

Increasing the supply you're able to get legitimately makes it so those who wish to build them can feasibly build them on their own. Higher supply doesn't necessarily mean lower prices, but even if it did, it'd balance around a fair price for the experience as a whole, much like Alexandrite and Mythics did.

7k Alexandrite doesn't suddenly mean doing Salvage isn't good money, because you're making 100+ Alexandrite in a below average run. If HPBs from an event were balanced correctly, it'd eventually hit a similar mark, where for an hour of your time, you can make a mil or two with some luck. Unfortunately, as it is, you'd be lucky to make a few hundred k for an hour of your time, and if you're aiming to build one, you're not even really making a dent to your needs in that time.

[Olor]

Increasing the supply you're able to get legitimately makes it so those who wish to build them can feasibly build them on their own. Higher supply doesn't necessarily mean lower prices, but even if it did, it'd balance around a fair price for the experience as a whole, much like Alexandrite and Mythics did.

7k Alexandrite doesn't suddenly mean doing Salvage isn't good money, because you're making 100+ Alexandrite in a below average run. If HPBs from an event were balanced correctly, it'd eventually hit a similar mark, where for an hour of your time, you can make a mil or two with some luck. Unfortunately, as it is, you'd be lucky to make a few hundred k for an hour of your time, and if you're aiming to build one, you're not even really making a dent to your needs in that time.

You make good points. Everything you're saying makes sense. It does sound like increasing supply could be a good thing as long as it wasn't just botters flooding the market in response. Though I will say, when AC drops in price my desire to do dynamis drops significantly, even if it's still a good money maker so it has to be balanced.

[dasva]

Actually, looking at progress per hour, if you have control of 6 characters doing yorcia in and outs puts you at .4% progress per hour (assuming you average 16 runs an hour - 52.8 hpb). It also lowers the cost of the weapon substantially (although what is your time worth). With that being said the supply of skirmish parts is finite and having control of 6 characters may not be possible for everyone.

Well to compare to salvage if you did have 6 characters you could also try doing 6 salvages at once. Assuming you don't do those crazy position hacking stuff it'd be ~100 per character in 30 minutes so 4% progress per hour... except you can only do half an hours progress a day and of course running 6 characters thru a zone separately at once is much harder than just camping 5 out while 1 does all the running