[dev 1234] Trial by xxxx {Rune Fencer} {Can I have it?}

[Bebekeke]

Nice to see some high-tier battlefields where RUN is going to shine :)

[Alhanelem]

Not as much as you might think, the avatars vary wildly in the number of elemental abilities they use. They should have done upgraded versions of the carbuncle prime quest's avatars instead if you ask me, since those all have a bunch of elementals as adds.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but all the high tier battles are just that, higher level versions of the monsters and don't have changed mechanics or anything.

[Bebekeke]

All 6 avatars have a T2 and T4 nuke BP, a merit BP and their Astral Flow BP. Just hitting Vallation and One For All before Astral Flow is enough reason to warrant taking a Rune Fencer, if you ask me.

The differences between them is how many physical BPs they have, or how many buffs/cures they have instead.

[Karbuncle]

their Physical BP's could be pretty dang annoying to deal with TBH, some of them hit quite hard... but their Magical ones are pretty bad too... so I'm willing to bet people will go with Aegis/Ochain still cause while RUN will strongly resist their magic BPs, are still going to be eating sh*t when it comes to the physical ones, and I imagine they'll hit pretty hard on normal swings too...

Still, if I'm wrong and RUN shines, I'll be really happy, cause that job just does not get enough love.

As far as high tier battefields just being higher level version of older fights? Yah, I think that sums it up quite well... I'm pretty sure none of them had any drastic behavior differences, outside of sometimes new weaponskills (which likely means the avatars will get their 76+ BPs)

[Alhanelem]

All 6 avatars have a T2 and T4 nuke BP, a merit BP and their Astral Flow BP. Just hitting Vallation and One For All before Astral Flow is enough reason to warrant taking a Rune Fencer, if you ask me.

The differences between them is how many physical BPs they have, or how many buffs/cures they have instead.
well thats what I mean to say- some avatars have more physical pacts thus are more likely to use physicals.

[Crevox]

Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but all the high tier battles are just that, higher level versions of the monsters and don't have changed mechanics or anything.


The majority of the battlefields (or all) have completely new attacks and mechanics.

As *one* example, instead of using mistmelts to force Ouryu to land, you have to proc his elementals by hitting them with an AoE weaponskill, and then use magic damage on Ouryu.

[Karbuncle]

Thats like the only mechanic I can think of thats different. If anything a few have some new TP moves, but I don't think any of them have drastically different mechanics.

[Crevox]

Thats like the only mechanic I can think of thats different. If anything a few have some new TP moves, but I don't think any of them have drastically different mechanics.

Maybe, but new attacks are new attacks. :) I know Ouryu does new stuff (ouch Terric Breath), the AAs, Shadow Lord, etc, etc...

New attacks are new things to overcome. As we can see the preview pictures, the avatars have !!'s, so there's something to proc, modes to change, mechanics, something.

[Karbuncle]

AA's don't have new attacks actuallly :| they use the same old stuff, as far as I know its the same for Shadow Lord too lol.

Though Mamool Ja guy got a new WS, same with RoTZ bosses.

[Shirai]

My summoner is very, very happy at this moment.
Any drops aside, I've been dying for a new avatar battlefield to test my solo skills on.

[Malithar]

Thats like the only mechanic I can think of thats different. If anything a few have some new TP moves, but I don't think any of them have drastically different mechanics.

The majority do have something different or new, whether that's newer WSs, new TP moves, heightened resistances that limit or block old strategies, or simply new mechanics like Kam below 50% with his fetters.

Not saying these new things always succeed in creating challenging content, but to write it all off as "it's just the same" is equally silly.

[Crevox]

AA's don't have new attacks actuallly :| they use the same old stuff, as far as I know its the same for Shadow Lord too lol.

Arrogance Incarnate? Ark Angel MR using Cloudsplitter? I know Shadow Lord has new ones as well, I just don't have names.

Ark Angel MR uses Larceny, that didn't even exist back then.

These are just a few examples.

I would argue the reason they're adding the new battlefields is to give more use out of new blood pacts they're adding for all the avatars (beat up players with them), but that's just wishful thinking.

[Metaking]

Funny thing is se might just give the avitars new moves as a teaser to smns, or heck even give them to the smns if you beat them
"Your Ramuh has been granted additional power from the proto crystal of Thunder"
Ramuh has learned: RIDE THE LIGHTNING ^.^/

[Bebekeke]

their Physical BP's could be pretty dang annoying to deal with TBH, some of them hit quite hard... but their Magical ones are pretty bad too... so I'm willing to bet people will go with Aegis/Ochain still cause while RUN will strongly resist their magic BPs, are still going to be eating sh*t when it comes to the physical ones, and I imagine they'll hit pretty hard on normal swings too...

Between Batutta, Foil, Swordplay and choosing the correct SJ (/BLU or /NIN most likely), RUN can handle a lot of physical damage.

I can't think of any physical BPs that go through, or wipe shadows, except Rush of course being 5-hit can still give you some damage after wiping 3 shadows.


well thats what I mean to say- some avatars have more physical pacts thus are more likely to use physicals.

Well, they all have the same # of BPs in total, so it's still a 3 in 9 chance to use a magic BP. Just that some are more likely to use a physical than a buff.

And PLEASE let Garuda use Fleet Wind XD

1 adjustment that could change the mechanics of these fights, is if they can use their BPs independently of TP, and on 2 separate timers for ward/rage like SMN can now.

[Olor]

As far as high tier battefields just being higher level version of older fights? Yah, I think that sums it up quite well... I'm pretty sure none of them had any drastic behavior differences, outside of sometimes new weaponskills (which likely means the avatars will get their 76+ BPs)

Well... Ouryu is pretty different... I don't recall elementals spawning in the NQ battle.

[Karbuncle]

Arrogance Incarnate? Ark Angel MR using Cloudsplitter? I know Shadow Lord has new ones as well, I just don't have names.

Ark Angel MR uses Larceny, that didn't even exist back then.

These are just a few examples.

I would argue the reason they're adding the new battlefields is to give more use out of new blood pacts they're adding for all the avatars (beat up players with them), but that's just wishful thinking.

Right, they did get Empyrean + New 2hours, but I belive Arrogance Incarnate is used by normal AA Elvaan? Or did hshe just get special treatment lol. Because Dragonfall and the like were in the normal fights.

[Bebekeke]

Well... Ouryu is pretty different... I don't recall elementals spawning in the NQ battle.

Ouryu, Ziryu x4, Earth Eles and Water Eles in Ouryu Cometh (Cloud Evoker fight). Link (http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Ouryu_Cometh)

[Karbuncle]

Between Batutta, Foil, Swordplay and choosing the correct SJ (/BLU or /NIN most likely), RUN can handle a lot of physical damage.

I can't think of any physical BPs that go through, or wipe shadows, except Rush of course being 5-hit can still give you some damage after wiping 3 shadows.


You're correct in thinking no Physical BPs ignore shadows, only their elemental BPs do that. However, unless the BPs are more nerf than in comparison to the 75 fights, I can't see a RUN living through a Spinning Dive or Titan's BP if it lands, but I imagine your have enough JA's to live through Astral Flow and such.

I just haven't seen a good RUN in action TBH, no one wants them, so I don't know how well a RUN/NIN would hold hate, Idk how well they can take a Physical BP and such. I know they have Parry and Evasion, but parry and evasion don't give PDT like a shield block... what I mean by that is if your Evasion/Parry check fails and a Physical BP hits you for full damage, is it going to one shot you? Because as THF who lived off Evasion, I know full well how badly I can die horribly if my evasion check fails.

I know RUN has the ability to do -50% PDT in their TP sets with not too much trouble/sacrifice, and I know it can even go as far as -75% if you have Mythic (and if they do have Mythic, I can see this not being an issue), but sub Mythic?

Wish I knew more RUNs :D

[Camiie]

Funny thing is se might just give the avitars new moves as a teaser to smns, or heck even give them to the smns if you beat them
"Your Ramuh has been granted additional power from the proto crystal of Thunder"
Ramuh has learned: RIDE THE LIGHTNING ^.^/

Hopefully they're not nearly stupid enough to do something like that.

[Bebekeke]

You're correct in thinking no Physical BPs ignore shadows, only their elemental BPs do that. However, unless the BPs are more nerf than in comparison to the 75 fights, I can't see a RUN living through a Spinning Dive or Titan's BP if it lands, but I imagine your have enough JA's to live through Astral Flow and such.

I just haven't seen a good RUN in action TBH, no one wants them, so I don't know how well a RUN/NIN would hold hate, Idk how well they can take a Physical BP and such. I know they have Parry and Evasion, but parry and evasion don't give PDT like a shield block... what I mean by that is if your Evasion/Parry check fails and a Physical BP hits you for full damage, is it going to one shot you? Because as THF who lived off Evasion, I know full well how badly I can die horribly if my evasion check fails.

I know RUN has the ability to do -50% PDT in their TP sets with not too much trouble/sacrifice, and I know it can even go as far as -75% if you have Mythic (and if they do have Mythic, I can see this not being an issue), but sub Mythic?

Wish I knew more RUNs :D

I have -51% PDT with Aettir (it can go to -55%) and with Embolden used on Protectra V, I can get my def VERY high as RUN/BLU (over 1600, maybe 1700) or as /NIN, you can practically insta-cast shadows with a very short recast on them, with near insta-cast phalanx and stoneskin in reserve for when they are down.

As for hate tools, RUN is pretty much king here too, and it's even easier since they increased the distance of valiance to hit the whole party (450CE and 900VE per person).

But, you're right. While a good RUN is very good, a not-so-good one is useless.

[Crevox]

And despite all that, PLD is still a better tank. RUN can do it, but PLD will do it better. This does not mean you shouldn't invite RUNs. You should.

RUN is only better over a PLD if its party support is useful, and we won't know until we see the fight.

[Bebekeke]

And despite all that, PLD is still a better tank. RUN can do it, but PLD will do it better. This does not mean you shouldn't invite RUNs. You should.

RUN is only better over a PLD if its party support is useful, and we won't know until we see the fight.

Unless the mobs use AF at an exact point in the fight every time, and people use the strategy of everyone GTFO of AOE range for when it happens, there's a good chance that the DDs will wipe to AF without a RUN in the party (unless they all go /RUN).

And despite this, only an Aegis PLD will be better than a RUN (and even then, probably not better than an Ergon RUN), but that's how it should be.

I still believe that a skillful well-geared RUN will be better for these fights than an equally skillful, equally well-geared PLD. Plus, a RUN will deal more damage, making the fight go faster, and also allow the DDs to not have to sub RUN, which makes the fight faster still.

The main issue with RUN is that there aren't many well-geared, skillful ones around.

[Karbuncle]

I imagine they'll use it at a specific time, much like their other counterparts. Probably @ or around 50%.

[Xerius]

I would expect it to just be everyone goes /RUN

[Metaking]

for stuff like this you would use runs as a pair not single, so the can keep up Valiance(15%x4runes [60] Mdt) probably something like run run brd whm thf random generic DD will be the ideal set up for D. First run will probly sub blu, and focus on tanking/ opening sc's and the second run war sub on DD closing close them.

[Olor]

Ouryu, Ziryu x4, Earth Eles and Water Eles in Ouryu Cometh (Cloud Evoker fight). Link (http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Ouryu_Cometh)

ah didn't know that, I just did the mission one.