This game could beneift from a classic server.

[nekrothing]

Usually when someone brings this subject up, it turns into an argument blinded by nostalgia. I'd like to avoid that by discussing how this game could objectively benefit from the inclusion of a classic server.

Firstly, some background information: http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/05/29/lineage-ii-classic-server-detailed/

Lineage 2 is currently in the process of launching three subscription-based hybrid-classic servers (classic servers with some modern amenities) which are being beta tested at the moment. NCSoft originally planned to have only one, but it became popular enough to warrant three. They're currently the most populated servers in the game.

Second classic server launched, with international ones being considered: http://2p.com/6773375_1/Innova-wants-to-launch-a-Lineage-2-Russian-Classic-Server-by-Apophis.htm

Third classic server launched: http://i.imgur.com/e2zryGU.jpg

EU classic server confirmed: http://boards.rochand.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=1265&start=350#p27507

NA classic server being considered: http://s16.postimg.org/ce6zleln9/Dear_NCsoft.png

Now, how is this relevant? For quite some time, there are those who have hoped that Square would release some sort of classic server for FFXI. With the recent influx of players, the aging Lineage 2 has proved that it might be worthwhile for Square to test the waters with their own hybrid-classic server. If it'll revitalize the population and bring people back, having some sort "PTS-Classic Server" to gauge the interest wouldn't be a bad idea.

What are your thoughts?

[Ris]

There was actually a thread on this, but, I don't know. Endgame is still group content. But why did SE make leveling so much easier?

Because the playerbase is much smaller and very top heavy.

A classic server that can't be transferred to, after a time, I bet it would have the same problem. Once it's top heavy again... it's going to be pretty hard to level.

My personal thoughts haven't really changed from the other thread though... It seems like there's still plenty of relevant group content and long term goals at endgame for those that want that kind of thing, so I prefer the dev team keep focused on the main version rather than split their resources.

[Camiie]

I wouldn't play on it, but I wouldn't have an issue with it as long as it did nothing to detract from the development of the mainstream version of the game. I just don't trust SE enough for that not to happen. Many of their promises already suffer from schedule slippage as is. I don't think they can afford another distraction.

[Draylo]

NO, stop these dumb threads. You people need to move on... Life goes on and the game is evolving every day as it needs to in order to survive. They have plenty of private servers out there.

[Draylo]

There was actually a thread on this, but, I don't know. Endgame is still group content. But why did SE make leveling so much easier?

Because the playerbase is much smaller and very top heavy.

A classic server that can't be transferred to, after a time, I bet it would have the same problem. Once it's top heavy again... it's going to be pretty hard to level.

My personal thoughts haven't really changed from the other thread though... It seems like there's still plenty of relevant group content and long term goals at endgame for those that want that kind of thing, so I prefer the dev team keep focused on the main version rather than split their resources.

Making leveling harder would solve nothing but hinder people from trying new jobs. SE already created a nostalgia partying experience, its called grinding in Woh Gates for JP. Nobody does it because they are lazy... imagine old school parties for low lvl exp lol

[nekrothing]

Many of their promises already suffer from schedule slippage as is. I don't think they can afford another distraction.

We needn't look any further than some of the threads on the front page to realize this harsh truth. Maintaining their current schedule on top of running an entirely separate classic server could be difficult. Both you and Ris raised another valid point, regarding detraction from the main servers.


I wouldn't play on it, but I wouldn't have an issue with it as long as it did nothing to detract from the development of the mainstream version of the game.


I prefer the dev team keep focused on the main version rather than split their resources.

Preventing their resources from being spread too thin would undoubtedly be the main hurdle. However, if the classic server turned out to be as successful for FFXI as it was for Lineage 2, the financial gain could greatly benefit overall development. Imagine three full servers worth of new and returning players, breathing new life into the game. Hopefully that would justify the resources needed for such an undertaking.

[Zarchery]

There was a thread on this (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/44240-Classic-Server) yesterday. They're discussing what a terrible idea it is over there.

You people need to grow up and deal with the fact that life goes on, regardless of how much you want to live in the past. It's also such a dumb idea. The game worked, just barely, in the past because the higher server populations gave you better odds of collecting people to do stuff. Now with lower populations, that model would be unsustainable, and given that this server would have still fewer people makes it work even worse than if the entirety of the current game were rolled back.

SE didn't create Abyssea and all the subsequent changes for the Hell of it. They did it because they were losing subscribers and people hated the way the game was. So yeah, that's a winning idea. Create a separate server for the content almost nobody wants.

[Natasha]

NO, stop these dumb threads. You people need to move on... Life goes on and the game is evolving every day as it needs to in order to survive. They have plenty of private servers out there.

And exactly how does offering a SINGLE separate server with a different ruleset stop the game from "evolving" as you called it? How about YOU stop with your dumb complaints about stuff that doesn't affect you and let people provide feedback about things they desire.


There was a thread on this (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/44240-Classic-Server) yesterday. They're discussing what a terrible idea it is over there.

You people need to grow up and deal with the fact that life goes on, regardless of how much you want to live in the past. It's also such a dumb idea. The game worked, just barely, in the past because the higher server populations gave you better odds of collecting people to do stuff. Now with lower populations, that model would be unsustainable, and given that this server would have still fewer people makes it work even worse than if the entirety of the current game were rolled back.

SE didn't create Abyssea and all the subsequent changes for the Hell of it. They did it because they were losing subscribers and people hated the way the game was. So yeah, that's a winning idea. Create a separate server for the content almost nobody wants.

Ok, first that was my thread (idk why this one popped up) and apparently you didn't read it because the majority are in favor of the idea in there. Further, everyone against it said nothing about it being terrible, only that they don't think its possible due to resources or other proplems.

Moving on, if anyone needs to grow up I would say it would be you and draylo over there, two people who are complaining about people requesting something that has no affect on the current version of the game you seem to like so much. The game was as I liked it, this is not some kind of mystery I actually enjoyed it back then and ever since abyssea have been in search of a similar experience. Regardless of why they made the changes they did (the changes actually made subs drop, not go up) it doesn't matter because this is NOT REVERSING ANYTHING, just offering an alternative for those who wish it. Stop being a selfish jerk by saying EVERYTHING must be your way and nothing else may exist when I and I assume the OP are simply seeing if it is POSSIBLE (no demands, a check) to bring back something we greatly enjoyed and wish to again.

[nekrothing]

Create a separate server for the content almost nobody wants.

Obviously it's something people want if they're asking for it. Lineage 2 has proven to be successful, with three domestic (currently the most populated servers) and three international subscription-based classic servers. Why deny potential financial gain that could benefit the overall development of the game?

As far as "life goes on," hyperbole is worse than nostalgia. All of the rose-tinting is coming from those exaggerating about how awful the game used to be.

[ruzoko]

Obviously it's something people want if they're asking for it. Lineage 2 has proven to be successful, with three domestic (currently the most populated servers) and three international subscription-based classic servers. Why deny potential financial gain that could benefit the overall development of the game?

As far as "life goes on," hyperbole is worse than nostalgia. All of the rose-tinting is coming from those exaggerating about how awful the game used to be.

I agree to this, from what i've heard myself on FFXIV MANY would prefer to have a classic server again to enjoy the old days when a group actually meant something, linkshells were worth having, not this solo solo solo thats affecting this and most MMO aside from the annoying dungeon spams for very bland gear you see everyone walking around in. Also i will include that myself and dozens of others quit FFXI for that exact reason, with abyssea it killed all old leveling areas and SoA just killed most of the game entirely.

[Natasha]

Obviously it's something people want if they're asking for it. Lineage 2 has proven to be successful, with three domestic (currently the most populated servers) and three international subscription-based classic servers. Why deny potential financial gain that could benefit the overall development of the game?

As far as "life goes on," hyperbole is worse than nostalgia. All of the rose-tinting is coming from those exaggerating about how awful the game used to be.

As a side note nekrothing, you should move over to my thread and paste your op and leave a like as its slightly larger (don't need duplicate threads splitting things).

You can find that here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/44240-Classic-Server

[PlumbGame]

There was a thread on this (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/44240-Classic-Server) yesterday. They're discussing what a terrible idea it is over there.

You people need to grow up and deal with the fact that life goes on, regardless of how much you want to live in the past. It's also such a dumb idea. The game worked, just barely, in the past because the higher server populations gave you better odds of collecting people to do stuff. Now with lower populations, that model would be unsustainable, and given that this server would have still fewer people makes it work even worse than if the entirety of the current game were rolled back.

SE didn't create Abyssea and all the subsequent changes for the Hell of it. They did it because they were losing subscribers and people hated the way the game was. So yeah, that's a winning idea. Create a separate server for the content almost nobody wants.

Lol, SE needs to give these people troll titles. Posts like this are cluttered with so much misinformation and no representation of the FFXI community at all or past community at all.

Anyways, as much as I agree with you OP, and is quite apparent in the other thread. I am not a big fan of people creating what looks like alt accounts to clutter the forums with what they think is a good idea. Also considering at the time of your post, the other thread was basically at the top of General Discussions, it's pretty hard to miss. Let me rephrase that, you actually have to go OUT of your way to miss it. Now I may be wrong, but considering how soon each thread has been with each other, I'm assuming you are an alt given your post history is directly related to this subject.

Again, I do agree with you, and SE should take advantage of this notion that isn't new. People have been suggesting this years. Hell, I made a thread about it I think in even 2010? So it's been a long time suggestion.

[Natasha]

Lol, SE needs to give these people troll titles. Posts like this are cluttered with so much misinformation and no representation of the FFXI community at all or past community at all.

Anyways, as much as I agree with you OP, and is quite apparent in the other thread. I am not a big fan of people creating what looks like alt accounts to clutter the forums with what they think is a good idea. Also considering at the time of your post, the other thread was basically at the top of General Discussions, it's pretty hard to miss. Let me rephrase that, you actually have to go OUT of your way to miss it. Now I may be wrong, but considering how soon each thread has been with each other, I'm assuming you are an alt given your post history is directly related to this subject.

Again, I do agree with you, and SE should take advantage of this notion that isn't new. People have been suggesting this years. Hell, I made a thread about it I think in even 2010? So it's been a long time suggestion.

*snip* Sorry, I assumed you were suggesting that. Nevermind.

[Rubicant82]

Sadly the biggest reason for not having a server is the whole "needed a 6 man party to do 99% of the non-end game content" and 18 ppl for all endgame. I do not think there would be enough players to have such a server. But that is my opinion. As long as SE doesn't roll the rest of us back I could care less. Though if SE is unwilling to make a server that is "retro" maybe they should look in to letting the privet server community that does stuff like that for many many many games, have a crack at the older content i.e. everything up to the cap increase. So that would be the last patches just before Abyssea.

[PlumbGame]

He isn't my alt lol... I mean I just told him to bring his support over to my thread. I was just as shocked as eveyone else to see the same topic pretty much re-posted today when mine was just a little ways down the list.

No one said he was your alt?

[nekrothing]

Now I may be wrong, but considering how soon each thread has been with each other, I'm assuming you are an alt given your post history is directly related to this subject.

I'm not an alt, I'm a returning player. Square's discount campaign has the Ultimate Collection marked down to $10, which I bought. I didn't see the other thread because I didn't bother to look for any recent threads regarding classic servers. I just happened to make one myself at around the same time as Natasha.

Just goes to show how much interest there is in the idea, though.

[PlumbGame]

I'm not an alt, I'm a returning player. Square's discount campaign has the Ultimate Collection marked down to $10, which I bought. I didn't see the other thread because I didn't bother to look for any recent threads regarding classic servers. I just happened to make one myself at around the same time as Natasha.

Just goes to show how much interest there is in the idea, though.

Aww I see, well even better if that is the case!

[Rubicant82]

I should also point out that most of the time unless a post or original post gets 10+ likes you it goes relatively unnoticed. So far you guys have 2 on this one and 5 on the other. Best of luck in your endeavors.

[PlumbGame]

I should also point out that most of the time unless a post or original post gets 10+ likes you it goes relatively unnoticed. So far you guys have 2 on this one and 5 on the other. Best of luck in your endeavors.

Well that is another issue, considering the majority of people who even want this aren't playing the game, it's almost impossible to get enough likes without some sorts of advertisement on the players part. Even worse considering that statistics are usually released at some point for active users that actually use the forums, and for most games it's like 10% give or take.

[nekrothing]

Well that is another issue, considering the majority of people who even want this aren't playing the game, it's almost impossible to get enough likes without some sorts of advertisement on the players part. Even worse considering that statistics are usually released at some point for active users that actually use the forums, and for most games it's like 10% give or take.

True, most of the people who are interested in a classic server have no real way of having their voices heard concerning the matter. But like you've said, the forums represent only a minority of the players opinions. Think of all the players who are currently subscribing that would be interested in the idea, but don't post on the forums. Or all of the potential players outside of the game that are interested in the idea but are unable to express their views because they're unable to post here.

Classic servers have proven to be successful, especially in Lineage 2's case. If it could financially benefit the overall development of the game, I don't see the harm in gauging interest in the idea of a classic server with some sort of community or public poll.

[Draylo]

And exactly how does offering a SINGLE separate server with a different ruleset stop the game from "evolving" as you called it? How about YOU stop with your dumb complaints about stuff that doesn't affect you and let people provide feedback about things they desire.



Ok, first that was my thread (idk why this one popped up) and apparently you didn't read it because the majority are in favor of the idea in there. Further, everyone against it said nothing about it being terrible, only that they don't think its possible due to resources or other proplems.

Moving on, if anyone needs to grow up I would say it would be you and draylo over there, two people who are complaining about people requesting something that has no affect on the current version of the game you seem to like so much. The game was as I liked it, this is not some kind of mystery I actually enjoyed it back then and ever since abyssea have been in search of a similar experience. Regardless of why they made the changes they did (the changes actually made subs drop, not go up) it doesn't matter because this is NOT REVERSING ANYTHING, just offering an alternative for those who wish it. Stop being a selfish jerk by saying EVERYTHING must be your way and nothing else may exist when I and I assume the OP are simply seeing if it is POSSIBLE (no demands, a check) to bring back something we greatly enjoyed and wish to again.

You do realize the DEV resources are already pulled too thin? They are probably the same people who work on XIV, and work on this game on off days.... Making a silly server for people with nostalgia goggles bolted on will just be a huge draw of resources for NO reason, we already played that game, time to move on. The main problem with your idea is that it pull from a tiny DEV teams time.

[Natasha]

You do realize the DEV resources are already pulled too thin? They are probably the same people who work on XIV, and work on this game on off days.... Making a silly server for people with nostalgia goggles bolted on will just be a huge draw of resources for NO reason, we already played that game, time to move on. The main problem with your idea is that it pull from a tiny DEV teams time.

Oh i'm sorry, are you on the dev team? You have the exact details on the resources available? You know if more can be allocated if needed? You do not know anything, if the devs don't have the resources then they will say so or just ignore these requests. Your comment is completely and utterly pointless, at worst its complete miss-information and at best its unofficial and speculative. Just because you have no desire for this does not mean others do not genuinely have that desire, every single thing you say is completely unsupported.

Your argument is just plain bad, you are arguing that something you do not know IS. Either back up your points with hard evidence or remove yourself from the conversation that you have no stake in.

[Zarchery]

Zachery you are one of the biggest fucking faggots i've ever had the displeassure of meeting in my whole time playing XI. I see you going through the forums trolling almost EVERYONES fucking threads acting like you're gods gift to Final Fantasy. The way you're online playing and the time you spend trolling I can't even imagine you're even employed for christ sakes! How does someone who spends the time you do with all that shit possibly work a job. I wish I could come through my monitor personally to beat the fuck out of you. You're a fucking joke dude. People like you ruined XI in the long run. Idk man maybe i'm wrong maybe you get paid good money to troll who knows. Alls I do seem to know is you're a ass hat and need the beating of a life time mother fucker. lmfao Say what you will I said my peace.

Wow. Bitter much?

How long do you think it actually takes to write a message board post? A standard full time work schedule still leaves 6+ hours a day on weekdays to do other stuff. And when did the definition of trolling become "holding opinions contrary to me"?

[Yadam]

i agree with Jblauh 100%

[Yadam]

THIS IS A GREAT IDEA! and for people who say "stop living in the past" , that is such bullshit, it's not living in the past. it is simply wanting to play a great game that we can no longer play due to 7 years of horrible updates that we didn't even want. Do you ever go back and play games that are 10 years old, or more? that's not living in the past, that's saying "hey that game was amazing, and i want to play it again". Todays games are purposely targetting casuals and noobs and rage quitters, people like Zarchery

[Yadam]

it would work, it would bring back more players, thus more money, and you guys who love playing solo with your NPCs can still continue to do so on the other servers, everyone wins, there really isn't a reason for you to be arguing other than you just like to shoot peoples ideas down.

[Shirai]

I'm also picking sides with the "Bad idea" crowd. I did enjoy those times immensely, but they are not coming back.

Several very solid reasons have already been given on why this idea is not feasible and why it will not "save this game".
People may come back for 1, 2 maybe even 3 months, but in the end nostalgia will not keep them. The server would turn into a ghost town fast.

The old FFXI was immensely time consuming, most people that played in those days, like myself, do not have the time nor will anymore to invest vast amounts of time into this game, wake up at odd hours to fight certain NMs, to give some examples.
Apart from that, you think they'd put any resources into making new content for it?


it would work, it would bring back more players, thus more money,

No, it will not.
Do you have any idea how much it costs to set one up?

Hint: It's not just a computer they plop down somewhere, it's a cluster.
And this cluster needs energy and regular maintenance.

Apart from that, you are grosely overestimating the amount of people that would come back for something like this.
An investment like this is not going to pay itself back.

[Yadam]

people would not come back for just 3 months lol, there's plenty of lifers who would continue to play that game for many years. i can see your argument about money though, but i believe enough people would come to the server that it would be worth it, the fact that the game was so time consuming was a GOOD thing, it kept people around for much longer. tons of people quit once the 75 cap got raised.

[Ris]

Preventing their resources from being spread too thin would undoubtedly be the main hurdle. However, if the classic server turned out to be as successful for FFXI as it was for Lineage 2, the financial gain could greatly benefit overall development. Imagine three full servers worth of new and returning players, breathing new life into the game. Hopefully that would justify the resources needed for such an undertaking.

This is a good point. But I have one other question... instead of an entirely different server branch, why can't SE just work in features that appeal to this audience? Why does it have to be a whole separate server?

But if it was as successful as that example so it's a net gain all around, I would be happy for the game. I guess I'm just skeptical it would bring in that many players...^^; But if SE does their market research and think it's ok...

[Natasha]

This is a good point. But I have one other question... instead of an entirely different server branch, why can't SE just work in features that appeal to this audience? Why does it have to be a whole separate server?

But if it was as successful as that example so it's a net gain all around, I would be happy for the game. I guess I'm just skeptical it would bring in that many players...^^; But if SE does their market research and think it's ok...

There are two problems with this, the first being that FFXI is already so different from how it was that the changes would have to be drastic and go against a lot of what was added to work. Problem two is that doing so is actually hurting the people who like FFXI as it is now. Offering a classic server does no harm to players who like the current version and gives players who want it a place to go, best of both worlds.



snip First, thanks for taking a more pleasant tone for discussion. Though I still believe you are making a lot of assumptions of your own. While classic does require a larger player base than the current version of the game I think it can be managed. There are about 13 servers going at the moment for the game, assuming that all of them have roughly the same population (they don't but this is just a hypothetical) asura has about thousand people on when I do a /sea all, lets say 10% of that want to play classic (that right there puts you at a /sea all of 1300) and then factoring returning players I would say you'd have probably a low of 1500 (could be a lot higher, Im trying to remain conservative but optimistic in my estimation). Now, thats not quite pre-abyssea population levels but its good enough to give it a try IMO (note thats players active at any given time, not total players active on the server). And for the record, while it is known that population was slightly in decline at some point after wings of the goddess it was not "tried and failed" the game was growing and growing up until not long before that and hit its highs in the ToAU expansion so no, its original form was pretty popular just not so much the perceived stagnation with wings and the following addons. Also it bears noting that abyssea caused the mass exodus of a lot of players like me, other types of players liked the changes so you might not have noticed it but at the time there was a large outcry and a number of big linkshells dissolved as a result.

In the end, I just want to say that as long as it is separate from your experience and IF the devs can accomplish it why are you against it? (and before we go there again, how do YOU know with certainty the devs cant do it? just let them speak for themselves if they will)

Also, I don't know too much about lineage and if its an apple or an orange but everquest was really quite like ffxi and was around even longer than ffxi (ffxi drew a lot of inspiration from it) and it worked there so, thats a more apples to apples comparison for you.


snip

I don't know who said it would "save" anything, I certainly didn't and I don't expect this idea to. Also I don't think you understand, classic servers are not supported with new content and in this case we are talking about a single server. Would it need a cluster? I don't know, but the way I see it is ffxi already has servers so this would be maintained along with those and likely hosted in the same location. FFXI as is could probably due with a server merge and that would be the best time to do this, merge a few active servers and switch a now unused server over to supporting this. While you assume the tasks to be monumental in size I see it as being appropriate and supporting a larger group than you would think.

[Ris]

Offering a classic server does no harm to players who like the current version and gives players who want it a place to go, best of both worlds.

I have to disagree here...^^; It's true we don't know their exact resource budgets... like others pointed out, slipping dates does make it seem like they're stretched even now. If nekrothing's vision worked out and it really brought in 3 servers worth of players I think it would be great for the game... but I think Square would have done it if they thought that would happen...

With what we know now, I can't really support the idea...

[Natasha]

I have to disagree here...^^; It's true we don't know their exact resource budgets... like others pointed out, slipping dates does make it seem like they're stretched even now. If nekrothing's vision worked out and it really brought in 3 servers worth of players I think it would be great for the game... but I think Square would have done it if they thought that would happen...

With what we know now, I can't really support the idea...

Any game can slip dates regardless of development resources (I mean, look at grand theft auto online, its slipped adding its heist feature for about a year now and they're the highest selling game in history atm I think). Now, im not exactly claiming the devs do not have limits but I do think that players should not be making assumptions as to those limits and only when we have clear feedback from a dev or community rep can we say for certain it is not doable. Believe me I want to do no harm to people who like what they have now and trust me when I say if they added what I wanted to the current game a lot more people would be upset than if they just offered the old school server. If they can't do it then they can't and I have to live with that, making changes in compromise is no solution, I will just have to leave it at that and go on my way.

[Ris]

Well, those are good points... will the devs respond..?

[detlef]

You guys are nuts. Are you gonna play on the classic server for 8 hours a day or are you gonna play casually? The former is what it would take to sustain the game. Otherwise you'll never be able to find enough people online at the same time who want to do the same things as you. Even if you find enough people, don't y'all remember what it was like back then? Remember back in those days you had to dip into a ton of different events all the time in order to gear up. Have fun with your 6-raid-per-week schedule to actually make an progress.

Oh and don't forget how hard it was to level jobs and how nobody is going to want to go BRD. The only thing that classic server will have going for it is low and mid-level XP. If that's what you want to do with your time in 2014 then good luck with that.

[Ris]

You guys are nuts. Are you gonna play on the classic server for 8 hours a day or are you gonna play casually?

I wouldn't play on a classic server, but I do think it's important to respect that not everyone has the same playstyle...

If like Natasha hopes it can be done without making the dev team hurt for time and resources and stuff, or like nekrothing hopes it can bring in lots of players to both server groups, why not let them play as they like?

[detlef]

Also, why couldn't the OP post in the existing thread rather than starting his own?

[Natasha]

You guys are nuts. Are you gonna play on the classic server for 8 hours a day or are you gonna play casually? The former is what it would take to sustain the game. Otherwise you'll never be able to find enough people online at the same time who want to do the same things as you. Even if you find enough people, don't y'all remember what it was like back then? Remember back in those days you had to dip into a ton of different events all the time in order to gear up. Have fun with your 6-raid-per-week schedule to actually make an progress.

Oh and don't forget how hard it was to level jobs and how nobody is going to want to go BRD. The only thing that classic server will have going for it is low and mid-level XP. If that's what you want to do with your time in 2014 then good luck with that.


If they brought a classic server then I would be playing it every day for hours and would in all likeliness play this until the servers rust. Sure I remember the negative, but overwhelmingly it was a positive experience for me, so much so that nothing else has filled its shoes since it was changed. You seem to have not liked it as much as I did, but I can assure you this is how I want to be playing in 2014 and for as long as I can.


I wouldn't play on a classic server, but I do think it's important to respect that not everyone has the same playstyle...

If like Natasha hopes it can be done without making the dev team hurt for time and resources and stuff, or like nekrothing hopes it can bring in lots of players to both server groups, why not let them play as they like?

Thank you for being so respectful in your posts. :D

[PlumbGame]

You guys are nuts. Are you gonna play on the classic server for 8 hours a day or are you gonna play casually? The former is what it would take to sustain the game. Otherwise you'll never be able to find enough people online at the same time who want to do the same things as you. Even if you find enough people, don't y'all remember what it was like back then? Remember back in those days you had to dip into a ton of different events all the time in order to gear up. Have fun with your 6-raid-per-week schedule to actually make an progress.

Oh and don't forget how hard it was to level jobs and how nobody is going to want to go BRD. The only thing that classic server will have going for it is low and mid-level XP. If that's what you want to do with your time in 2014 then good luck with that.

What does 2014 have to do with anything? I play the same amount of time now that I did then, people who worked 40hrs a week in 2004 still work 40hrs a week.

[detlef]

What does 2014 have to do with anything? I play the same amount of time now that I did then, people who worked 40hrs a week in 2004 still work 40hrs a week.That's good. Personally my playtime has pretty much stayed constant throughout the years. But a lot of people (not me) play a lot more casually now. In addition to just having more life responsibilities, there are a wealth of competing MMOs and other game alternatives that simply weren't around 5-6 years ago. If you can maintain that play style then bully for you, but do you not agree that as a whole the player base has gotten less hardcore and devotes fewer hours per week than during the game's level 75 cap hey day?

[nekrothing]

Apart from that, you are grosely overestimating the amount of people that would come back for something like this.

Quite the contrary, I believe you're underestimating the amount of interest in a classic server, especially considering the success of classic servers for other online games.

The amount of interest expressed in these forums only represents a small portion of the players who would be in favor of a classic server, and that's saying something, considering a lot of players here are in favor of the idea. Like I mentioned in the other thread, the Japanese community have players who feel exactly the same way we do, and express their views both here and on 2ch on a regular basis. There's no doubt enough interest to sustain a single classic server, if not more.


What does 2014 have to do with anything?

Not a thing. Lineage 2's success has proven how viable pay-to-play classic servers can be in today's market.

[PlumbGame]

That's good. Personally my playtime has pretty much stayed constant throughout the years. But a lot of people (not me) play a lot more casually now. In addition to just having more life responsibilities, there are a wealth of competing MMOs and other game alternatives that simply weren't around 5-6 years ago. If you can maintain that play style then bully for you, but do you not agree that as a whole the player base has gotten less hardcore and devotes fewer hours per week than during the game's level 75 cap hey day?

People aren't looking for a "classic" server to try and be some MMO killer for another MMO. They are looking for a server because there is a decent chunk of people who prefer that play style that enjoyed FFXI during those days that would like to play during that era again.

I have no idea how I can agree with you considering the peak of FFXI was during the most hardcore days. Let me rephrase that. The currrent ffxi playerbase doesn't even come close to the subs SE had back in the day. To assume that "more casual" is what any FFXI player wants would be vastly inaccurate. To assume that the current subs to FFXI want more casual is another story, which again, would be hard to determine considering that the majority of the pop doesn't even visit the forums, let alone respond/look at anything other than dev responses. But now I'm starting to feel like a broken record through the same constant responses to give to players who obviously don't read a thread.

[detlef]

People aren't looking for a "classic" server to try and be some MMO killer for another MMO. They are looking for a server because there is a decent chunk of people who prefer that play style that enjoyed FFXI during those days that would like to play during that era again.

I have no idea how I can agree with you considering the peak of FFXI was during the most hardcore days. Let me rephrase that. The currrent ffxi playerbase doesn't even come close to the subs SE had back in the day. To assume that "more casual" is what any FFXI player wants would be vastly inaccurate. To assume that the current subs to FFXI want more casual is another story, which again, would be hard to determine considering that the majority of the pop doesn't even visit the forums, let alone respond/look at anything other than dev responses. But now I'm starting to feel like a broken record through the same constant responses to give to players who obviously don't read a thread.What kind of play style are you referring to? Did you like the XP? The events? The world spawns? Or does this have something to do with the community?

Also you're a bit confrontational here. We can have a discussion without you getting upset.

[PlumbGame]

What kind of play style are you referring to? Did you like the XP? The events? The world spawns? Or does this have something to do with the community?

Also you're a bit confrontational here. We can have a discussion without you getting upset.

Uhh what. No one is upset at all. You are one of those people that says umadbro whenever someone disagree with you aren't you? I'm also confused by your question.

[detlef]

Uhh what. No one is upset at all. You are one of those people that says umadbro whenever someone disagree with you aren't you? I'm also confused by your question.I'm asking you what you're looking for in a classic server. What aspects of the game from back then are attractive to you now? If you read the thread (as you accused me of not doing), there's not really much about what people want. It's unclear whether people want to be able to group up and XP at lower levels. Or if they miss competition for world spawns. Or if they liked the events.

[PlumbGame]

I'm asking you what you're looking for in a classic server. What aspects of the game from back then are attractive to you now? If you read the thread (as you accused me of not doing), there's not really much about what people want. It's unclear whether people want to be able to group up and XP at lower levels. Or if they miss competition for world spawns. Or if they liked the events.

There isn't just 1 thing people miss that want a classic server. Maybe that is why you are asking the question as it seems you feel there needs to be some sort of basis as to why someone would want that. As a whole, people want the entire experience. Now some people do find certain things not as attractable, like competing for HNMs, but still want the entire experience. There doesn't have to be an OR. I want it all.

[detlef]

There isn't just 1 thing people miss that want a classic server. Maybe that is why you are asking the question as it seems you feel there needs to be some sort of basis as to why someone would want that. As a whole, people want the entire experience. Now some people do find certain things not as attractable, like competing for HNMs, but still want the entire experience. There doesn't have to be an OR. I want it all.


What does 2014 have to do with anything? I play the same amount of time now that I did then, people who worked 40hrs a week in 2004 still work 40hrs a week.I don't think the average FFXIer worked 40 hours a week back then. How many players picked up this game in HS or college? I highly doubt your average player back then was working full time. The game required a pretty hefty time commitment. Remember spending the entire evening looking for PT, finally getting a BRD, taking 20-30 minutes to get to camp, and then XPing for like an hour before somebody had to leave?

This is obviously my opinion, but I don't think people will still put up with that kind of experience. I used the argument that the player base as a whole is more casual, but perhaps it's more accurate to say that the player base has a much lower tolerance for bullshit now than they did back then. Even players who want a classic server.

The other thing is that back then we were eating mud. We ate mud because we didn't know any better. Nowadays, we know there's steak out there. We don't always have steak, sometimes we still eat mud. But why you voluntarily go back to eating nothing but mud with no possibility for steak?

[Natasha]

I don't think the average FFXIer worked 40 hours a week back then. How many players picked up this game in HS or college? I highly doubt your average player back then was working full time. The game required a pretty hefty time commitment. Remember spending the entire evening looking for PT, finally getting a BRD, taking 20-30 minutes to get to camp, and then XPing for like an hour before somebody had to leave?

This is obviously my opinion, but I don't think people will still put up with that kind of experience. I used the argument that the player base as a whole is more casual, but perhaps it's more accurate to say that the player base has a much lower tolerance for bullshit now than they did back then. Even players who want a classic server.

The other thing is that back then we were eating mud. We ate mud because we didn't know any better. Nowadays, we know there's steak out there. We don't always have steak, sometimes we still eat mud. But why you voluntarily go back to eating nothing but mud with no possibility for steak?

In my experience almost everyone I played with was a 40 hr work week, and most of them loved the game like I did and quit some time part way through abyssea. Also i've tried all this "steak" out there and if you ask me THAT is actually the mud. That is my personal experience and you have yours, the reality is that there are people who truly loved how it was and there were those who hated it and those who were in between. Out of all of that I believe there is room on the MMO market to support both kinds of players, and since the "steak" gamers will have none of what I want is it really that unreasonable to come to where my favorite dish was served and ask that it be on the menu again?

As a side note, I don't know how anyone still has this opinion that old school games were not good just because they had flaws (all games have flaws, new school ones have different flaws). I mean, with things like divinity original sin selling well, games like dark souls picking up a large audience, project eternity, Richard Garriott's mmo, and camelot unchained all being funded well on kickstarter there is pleanty of evidence that people do in fact like that kind of game. Its not mud, its at worst its an acquired taste.

[detlef]

In my experience almost everyone I played with was a 40 hr work week, and most of them loved the game like I did and quit some time part way through abyssea. Also i've tried all this "steak" out there and if you ask me THAT is actually the mud. That is my personal experience and you have yours, the reality is that there are people who truly loved how it was and there were those who hated it and those who were in between. Out of all of that I believe there is room on the MMO market to support both kinds of players, and since the "steak" gamers will have none of what I want is it really that unreasonable to come to where my favorite dish was served and ask that it be on the menu again?

As a side note, I don't know how anyone still has this opinion that old school games were not good just because they had flaws (all games have flaws, new school ones have different flaws). I mean, with things like divinity original sin selling well, games like dark souls picking up a large audience, project eternity, Richard Garriott's mmo, and camelot unchained all being funded well on kickstarter there is pleanty of evidence that people do in fact like that kind of game. Its not mud, its at worst its an acquired taste.Well I guess we just have different game experiences because the vast majority of people I played with at the start were young adults and barely 20-somethings who weren't holding down full-time jobs.

The "steak" I refer to isn't meant to refer to other games. It's more to refer to things that came along within FFXI that were vast improvements. Things like HP warps, Geomancer, /lastsynth, the currencies tab, faster movement speed. Things like that are almost indispensable now.

Finally, I'm not calling all of old FFXI mud. I played through it like everyone else, and if I didn't like it I would have quit. But there was a lot of mud back then, and I think a lot of us didn't recognize that it was mud because we didn't know any better.

[PlumbGame]

I don't think the average FFXIer worked 40 hours a week back then. How many players picked up this game in HS or college? I highly doubt your average player back then was working full time. The game required a pretty hefty time commitment. Remember spending the entire evening looking for PT, finally getting a BRD, taking 20-30 minutes to get to camp, and then XPing for like an hour before somebody had to leave?

This is obviously my opinion, but I don't think people will still put up with that kind of experience. I used the argument that the player base as a whole is more casual, but perhaps it's more accurate to say that the player base has a much lower tolerance for bullshit now than they did back then. Even players who want a classic server.

The other thing is that back then we were eating mud. We ate mud because we didn't know any better. Nowadays, we know there's steak out there. We don't always have steak, sometimes we still eat mud. But why you voluntarily go back to eating nothing but mud with no possibility for steak?

Uhh, almost my entire LS worked 40 hours, I was the exception due to being in HS. You ate mud in 2004? If you are referring to children doing stuff like eating worms, that actually still exists today.

The examples you gave aren't even hefty time requirements. EXPing for an hour is a hefty time commitment? Sitting in one spot with lfp flag up is a hefty time commitment? You are spending more time responding to these posts than the examples you gave.

[detlef]

Uhh, almost my entire LS worked 40 hours, I was the exception due to being in HS. You ate mud in 2004? If you are referring to children doing stuff like eating worms, that actually still exists today.Oh let me explain myself a little better. The mud example was meant to represent many of the bad things we put up with because we just assumed that that's how things had to be. At the time, all we knew was that MMOs had to be punishing and the way you progressed was just by pushing through it and getting a marginally stronger. Kiting Kirin for an hour was just the way it was.

So we just put up with it because that's what we didn't know any better. So no I'm not talking about literally eating mud. And certainly not worms, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.


The examples you gave aren't even hefty time requirements. EXPing for an hour is a hefty time commitment? Sitting in one spot with lfp flag up is a hefty time commitment? You are spending more time responding to these posts than the examples you gave.If you add up the seeking time, the travel time, and the actual XP time, you're putting in a few hours without getting a lot back is my point. There was no guarantee you'd even get an invite at all. And this was during the game's peak when everybody was looking for XP.

I guess I just assumed that back in the day, not everybody had clear sailing XPing jobs that weren't RDM or BRD.

[PlumbGame]

Oh let me explain myself a little better. The mud example was meant to represent many of the bad things we put up with because we just assumed that that's how things had to be. At the time, all we knew was that MMOs had to be punishing and the way you progressed was just by pushing through it and getting a marginally stronger. Kiting Kirin for an hour was just the way it was.

So we just put up with it because that's what we didn't know any better. So no I'm not talking about literally eating mud. And certainly not worms, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

If you add up the seeking time, the travel time, and the actual XP time, you're putting in a few hours without getting a lot back is my point. There was no guarantee you'd even get an invite at all. And this was during the game's peak when everybody was looking for XP.

I guess I just assumed that back in the day, not everybody had clear sailing XPing jobs that weren't RDM or BRD.

I did a lot of stuff that was productive while lfp, I don't quite understand the commitment there. Besides that, your example is only 1 hour and 30 mins at most. Let us not forget that you also used examples like the dunes in previous posts, where most, if not all players, were LFP IN that zone, resulting in a time travel of like 2mins. Now, I do know players that exp'd for several hours. I've done it myself, and I would absolutely do it again, but trying to argue there is a time commitment in sitting there lfp? Come on lol. People like you are also people who complain about time commitment, yet are on FFXI all day. For example, you have several relics, a mythic, etc. I would assume you have spent more time than the issue you are trying to create, yet you argue that people don't have that kind of time in 2014? Even more, there is this implication that people who do want to supposedly play casual (even though they blatantly aren't) have to play on said server, when that is on the contrary.

I do get where you are going with though, would people really want this kind of stuff anymore with all the modern conveniences in modern day MMOs (for example, even though I love FFXI, I also do love dungeon finder tools). Well, like pointed out in the other thread exactly like this (and even this thread), we have provided several instances of where servers like this ultimately turned out more successful than where the game had progressed. That isn't to say there can't be both, but there is people who go crazy for this nostalgia crap and would LOVE to do it all over again. There is even people that some call "Power Gamers" who would love to play on a server like this just for the sake of getting to HNMs and preventing other people from ever killing one.

I'll even give another example of this crave for this nostalgia. There is a server for EQ called project1999 which trys to recreate the classic era of EQ. It has not only brought a population to the servers that hits numbers higher than servers hit in what some would consider the peak of EQ, but has brought new players to the server to experience something they never got to experience. Which has resulted in several people who fell in love with it and haven't left. So there is even opportunity to not just bring back old players, but new players in general.

Just to make it clear though, I do agree with you to an extent that a server like this will most likely not bring millions of subs, or even anything equivalent to what use to exist, merely based off what you said. This is more of a guilt trip for SE tbh, that we have hit a point in FFXI's life that this SHOULD happen, and there won't be any harm.

[detlef]

I did a lot of stuff that was productive while lfp, I don't quite understand the commitment there. Besides that, your example is only 1 hour and 30 mins at most. Let us not forget that you also used examples like the dunes in previous posts, where most, if not all players, were LFP IN that zone, resulting in a time travel of like 2mins. Now, I do know players that exp'd for several hours. I've done it myself, and I would absolutely do it again, but trying to argue there is a time commitment in sitting there lfp? Come on lol. People like you are also people who complain about time commitment, yet are on FFXI all day. For example, you have several relics, a mythic, etc. I would assume you have spent more time than the issue you are trying to create, yet you argue that people don't have that kind of time in 2014? Even more, there is this implication that people who do want to supposedly play casual (even though they blatantly aren't) have to play on said server, when that is on the contrary.I was just trying to say that if you wanted XP, you had to be able to commit a sizable chunk of your time. Whether you're doing things while waiting, you still have to be online. Similarly, even if you only had to be attentive every 30 minutes for Kings camps, that was still potentially a 3+ hour commitment. Also, travel time was a very real thing back then.


I do get where you are going with though, would people really want this kind of stuff anymore with all the modern conveniences in modern day MMOs (for example, even though I love FFXI, I also do love dungeon finder tools). Well, like pointed out in the other thread exactly like this (and even this thread), we have provided several instances of where servers like this ultimately turned out more successful than where the game had progressed. That isn't to say there can't be both, but there is people who go crazy for this nostalgia crap and would LOVE to do it all over again. There is even people that some call "Power Gamers" who would love to play on a server like this just for the sake of getting to HNMs and preventing other people from ever killing one.

I'll even give another example of this crave for this nostalgia. There is a server for EQ called project1999 which trys to recreate the classic era of EQ. It has not only brought a population to the servers that hits numbers higher than servers hit in what some would consider the peak of EQ, but has brought new players to the server to experience something they never got to experience. Which has resulted in several people who fell in love with it and haven't left. So there is even opportunity to not just bring back old players, but new players in general.

Just to make it clear though, I do agree with you to an extent that a server like this will most likely not bring millions of subs, or even anything equivalent to what use to exist, merely based off what you said. This is more of a guilt trip for SE tbh, that we have hit a point in FFXI's life that this SHOULD happen, and there won't be any harm.I'm certainly not claiming that today's FFXI is superior. It's comparing two different games with different players. But there are so many things that have been improved between then and now (which I mentioned briefly earlier). My biggest beef back then was actually how much time you had to commit to XP in order to level a job to 75. Unless you really played a lot, you couldn't level up a bunch of jobs to try them out. I never even had the time or inclination to level a 2nd job till just before Abyssea.

Practically speaking, I do wonder whether people are nostalgic for the XP or the endgame, because the people who race to 75 to dominate endgame are going to have to wait quite awhile for the "smell the roses" crowd to catch up. That's why I think it's important to identify what people miss. If people are are really after recreating life at 75 then maybe XPing should be de-empathized. Also if you wanted to get the most out of endgame at 75 there were SO many events you had to do. Dynamis, Limbus, Einherjar, Sky, Sea, ZNMs, Salvage... I guess variety is good but good luck getting enough people to do what you want to do. I can't even imagine going back to 7-man Salvage with 2% drop rates.

Anyway, good luck with the crusade, I really just wanted to illustrate that some of the things we put up with really were pretty terrible.

[nekrothing]

Update regarding the continued success of the Lineage 2 classic servers: http://boards.rochand.com/viewtopic.php?p=27833#p27833

-Subscription cost is 300 RUB for the Russian servers, which is approximately $8.00. So around half a normal subscription fee.

-Tons of hype coming from the European/Russian community alone. They plan on opening an additional classic server to meet player demand.

Everything seems to be going really well for them.

[Shirai]

Also I don't think you understand, classic servers are not supported with new content and in this case we are talking about a single server. Would it need a cluster? I don't know, but the way I see it is ffxi already has servers so this would be maintained along with those and likely hosted in the same location. FFXI as is could probably due with a server merge and that would be the best time to do this, merge a few active servers and switch a now unused server over to supporting this. While you assume the tasks to be monumental in size I see it as being appropriate and supporting a larger group than you would think.

I'm not sure why I am going through the hardships of answering you on this.

An FFXI server is run on something like this:
http://cbs.lsdiv.harvard.edu/ncf/Images/compute/IMG_0048.jpg

Not this:
http://www.returnmarket.com/media/termekek/orig_800x600_1366638816_dell_745_sff_pc.jpg

It's a cluster, not a single computer.

[nekrothing]

An FFXI server is run on something like this

You mean this?

http://imgur.com/X23e1be,JjpJ8mE,1RI9och,zxDX5Pl

Despite the limitations of their resources and manpower, there are individuals who have spent their own money on server infrastructure that rival even Square's, who have attempted to recreate the classic FFXI experience.

[Natasha]

I'm not sure why I am going through the hardships of answering you on this.

An FFXI server is run on something like this:
It's a cluster, not a single computer.

And what exactly is your point? I already addressed why that is less of an issue than you made it out to be, they already have server clusters, whats to stop them from merging some of their servers and and using the cluster for the servers being phased out for the classic server?

[Yadam]

perhaps make a new thread called PETITION or something to show everyone the petition i think it will get more views that way

[Draylo]

Nobody wants it, go to a private server.

[Bamph]

You mean this?

http://imgur.com/X23e1be,JjpJ8mE,1RI9och,zxDX5Pl

Despite the limitations of their resources and manpower, there are individuals who have spent their own money on server infrastructure that rival even Square's, who have attempted to recreate the classic FFXI experience.

You mean, *gasp* there are individuals out there that make servers for people to play on that will give people who want a classic server experience? WHY DOESN'T EVERYONE JOIN THOSE SERVERS! I mean, it sounds like it's what everyone wants. So why are we bothering SE if there's already something out there that suits the needs and wants of all those who want to play classic ffxi?

[Natasha]

You mean, *gasp* there are individuals out there that make servers for people to play on that will give people who want a classic server experience? WHY DOESN'T EVERYONE JOIN THOSE SERVERS! I mean, it sounds like it's what everyone wants. So why are we bothering SE if there's already something out there that suits the needs and wants of all those who want to play classic ffxi?


Nobody wants it, go to a private server.

Obviously people want it or we wouldnt HAVE private servers for them, or people like me posting here, or any of the people i've talked to that were ashamed of the changes made in abyssea. I don't know why you don't get this (draylo in specific) as you were always a stalwart fan of the game, I don't care if you moved on or not, but you do not have the means to speak for the devs or the entire popluation so why don't you just support the petition or move on from this thread? If it cannot be accomplished due to resources the devs will surely say so if they decided to comment. If nobody wants it then surely this post will die out anyway. You stating these things means nothing.

As for the comments about private servers, they suck and are you know, private (this is a generalization about them, I haven't played one for ffxi but Im fully aware of the problems with them). The best way to get the experience is to have an OFFICIAL server, where bugs would be limited and server stability would be good with higher security and more public visibility. There are already a good bit of people who were playing on private servers but 1. they were spread out 2. not everyone who would want this knows about private servers and if they do they dont always want to mess with that kind of stuff. Its really not a fair comparison, if SE launched a classic server it would easily be 4x larger than the population of the largest private server at minimum.

[PlumbGame]

Obviously no one wants it, hence the more likes towards the OP than the people saying no one wants it (this is mostly brought up because if you were to base the wants of the community based off the forums, you people against the idea would be wrong that no one wants it).

On another note, the server comments are irrelevant towards anything. First, people want a server hosted by SE, not a third party, which has already been brought up a million times. Second, these servers that aren't even suppose to be brought up in the first place, aren't even fully compatible, nor even close, and functionality of everything is garbage, better yet, the size of the playerbase is drastically lower than current FFXI servers which has been brought up a million times. Third, I feel there was some implication that due to things being hosted on a server they can't back up, or transfer data, which is completely false.

[nekrothing]

Obviously no one wants it, hence the more likes towards the OP than the people saying no one wants it (this is mostly brought up because if you were to base the wants of the community based off the forums, you people against the idea would be wrong that no one wants it).

Pretty much this. More people are in favor of the idea than against it, both in this thread and the other one.

[PlumbGame]

Pretty much this. More people are in favor of the idea than against it, both in this thread and the other one.

Better, the poll that was put up in the other thread has way more numbers, debating spamming that in some different areas, but been lazy XD

[Draylo]

Obviously people want it or we wouldnt HAVE private servers for them, or people like me posting here, or any of the people i've talked to that were ashamed of the changes made in abyssea. I don't know why you don't get this (draylo in specific) as you were always a stalwart fan of the game, I don't care if you moved on or not, but you do not have the means to speak for the devs or the entire popluation so why don't you just support the petition or move on from this thread? If it cannot be accomplished due to resources the devs will surely say so if they decided to comment. If nobody wants it then surely this post will die out anyway. You stating these things means nothing.

As for the comments about private servers, they suck and are you know, private (this is a generalization about them, I haven't played one for ffxi but Im fully aware of the problems with them). The best way to get the experience is to have an OFFICIAL server, where bugs would be limited and server stability would be good with higher security and more public visibility. There are already a good bit of people who were playing on private servers but 1. they were spread out 2. not everyone who would want this knows about private servers and if they do they dont always want to mess with that kind of stuff. Its really not a fair comparison, if SE launched a classic server it would easily be 4x larger than the population of the largest private server at minimum.

I still am a big fan of it, I still enjoy this game and I'm not "ashamed" of how it ended up after abyssea. The changes were 100% necessary. Some of the things you people are asking for are baffling, removing things that make exp easier, why? There are things in place RIGHT NOW, that are exactly like the old days (Grinding CP for job points in specific camps) and nobody does them because they are bored of them. It just isn't something that is sustainable. You are asking SE to devote resources to creating these servers when there is a perfectly good game still there that they can expand upon. These servers would require maintenance, GM force, updates, funding etc. It just is very pointless and I didn't enjoy those days anyways more than I do now. I liked the party/exping aspect but I hated the HNM scene, it was ridiculous and annoying. There are private servers out right now that replicate this experience to some degree, they are even free, yet I see their population barely goes above 100 people? What makes you think people want this? Only a small handful of you are asking for these changes in seriousness, the rest moved on and only say it for nostalgia.

A lot of the problems have already been brought up in this thread. The game is aging, back then it had a booming population because it was one of the only MMO's out there with the FF brand and style of game. Now, there are many of them and one that directly competes with it (FFXIV) and has better graphics. New age gamers won't look twice at this game due to its age and the graphics, you won't get the same population. So you are pretty much betting on all the "old timers" to come back simply because its the same game they played way back when. That will work for the first month or so until they get bored and quit. Long wait times for everything, lock outs all over the place (even for missions.) Now the game is much more relaxed, and it still has that hardcore aspect. There is still things you group up for all the time. It's a lot more accessible and jobs can participate in content w/o too much penalty like in the old days.

[PlumbGame]

I still am a big fan of it, I still enjoy this game and I'm not "ashamed" of how it ended up after abyssea. The changes were 100% necessary. Some of the things you people are asking for are baffling, removing things that make exp easier, why? There are things in place RIGHT NOW, that are exactly like the old days (Grinding CP for job points in specific camps) and nobody does them because they are bored of them. It just isn't something that is sustainable. You are asking SE to devote resources to creating these servers when there is a perfectly good game still there that they can expand upon. These servers would require maintenance, GM force, updates, funding etc. It just is very pointless and I didn't enjoy those days anyways more than I do now. I liked the party/exping aspect but I hated the HNM scene, it was ridiculous and annoying. There are private servers out right now that replicate this experience to some degree, they are even free, yet I see their population barely goes above 100 people? What makes you think people want this? Only a small handful of you are asking for these changes in seriousness, the rest moved on and only say it for nostalgia.

A lot of the problems have already been brought up in this thread. The game is aging, back then it had a booming population because it was one of the only MMO's out there with the FF brand and style of game. Now, there are many of them and one that directly competes with it (FFXIV) and has better graphics. New age gamers won't look twice at this game due to its age and the graphics, you won't get the same population. So you are pretty much betting on all the "old timers" to come back simply because its the same game they played way back when. That will work for the first month or so until they get bored and quit. Long wait times for everything, lock outs all over the place (even for missions.) Now the game is much more relaxed, and it still has that hardcore aspect. There is still things you group up for all the time. It's a lot more accessible and jobs can participate in content w/o too much penalty like in the old days.

It's not "removal of certain aspects", it's what comes with a server likes this. The way the game worked back then, a lot of changes to the game would greatly break how the game was, and why people would want to experience that era again. I feel some of you aren't getting it. We don't want a server with all these weird different things, we want a recreation of how the game was back then. Better yet, some of you almost feel that the implementation of this would mean the normal servers would change, for example, I feel you think that if a server like this existed, it would somehow nerf your exp on the normal servers. Also, like I've already mentioned earlier, besides making the game compatible with current operating systems, if previous updates did exist, all it requires is basically the flip of a switch. Also, like already mentioned before, GM works was (at least use to) be volunteer, making that point completely irrelevant. In general, this doesn't sound like a server for you though, which again, absolutely doesn't have to involve you at all. The resources could be an issue, but even more irrelevant because if servers like this brought back more players than currently play, it would be more beneficial for SE to do this financially. I'm not making any claims it will, I'm merely creating situations where I feel you don't really have any idea on the possibility of their resources. Again, there has been several instances presented where something like this did bring back "old timers" and succeeded for many other companies. Will it work here? Who knows.

I think I'm going to just copy and paste what I say into a notepad. Feeling too much like a broken record.

[Draylo]

The game still works the same... EXP is quicker and you can still choose to team up if you want (not many do because they prefer the ease.) End game is STILL THE SAME, you get gear from all different content and you can team up with people to get it. The main difference? Most of the gear is attainable w/o long lock out periods or terrible RNG. I know what you feel, I felt the same way at the start of Abyssea, change bothers a lot of people. After the game started to change I began to see how it was necessary.

[PlumbGame]

The game still works the same... EXP is quicker and you can still choose to team up if you want (not many do because they prefer the ease.) End game is STILL THE SAME, you get gear from all different content and you can team up with people to get it. The main difference? Most of the gear is attainable w/o long lock out periods or terrible RNG. I know what you feel, I felt the same way at the start of Abyssea, change bothers a lot of people. After the game started to change I began to see how it was necessary.

This is relevant to people asking for a "classic server" how? These exact changes you point out are reasons people left the game..... lol

[Draylo]

You have no idea what you are asking for, that is how its relevant. What exactly do you want back from the old days? You can't say "da general feelz" because it makes no sense from a business standpoint for SE. Do you WANT huge EXP requirements to gain a level, do you want massive exp loss when dying, do you want long lock out periods and terrible RNG? What do you want that was so precious?

[PlumbGame]

You have no idea what you are asking for, that is how its relevant. What exactly do you want back from the old days? You can't say "da general feelz" because it makes no sense from a business standpoint for SE. Do you WANT huge EXP requirements to gain a level, do you want massive exp loss when dying, do you want long lock out periods and terrible RNG? What do you want that was so precious?

Oh you do have an idea? Please enlighten me then so I can better understand your superior knowledge so that I may change my point of view.

Obviously yes I want that, or I wouldn't be asking.

[Draylo]

Okay, so now the next question is, WHY do you want that? What is so rewarding about massive lock out periods, terrible RNG, massive exp loss, massive exp required to gain a level? What is appealing about that, you have to sell this to people for this classic server, because you can't just rely on the old school crowd to populate it.

[PlumbGame]

Okay, so now the next question is, WHY do you want that? What is so rewarding about massive lock out periods, terrible RNG, massive exp loss, massive exp required to gain a level? What is appealing about that, you have to sell this to people for this classic server, because you can't just rely on the old school crowd to populate it.

There isn't anything I don't want (which has already been pointed out, and the other guy keeps asking why I keep pointing our l2read, even more so considering I'm one of the most active posters in these 2 different threads right now). The only thing I don't want is the habitual claim botting and RMTing that was present during those time periods. I'm confused by the implication that I need a certain aspect of the classic era. I want it all. When I mention wanting a classic server, what does that mean to you? And you might be able rely on "the old school" pop to populate it, FFXI has more you can just jump up and do currently than there was back in the days (limited to lock outs, HNM's starting at 21 hours, etc). This could actually result in more people playing the normal servers on this servers down time (like how people right now play XI on XIVs downtime). Like I've pointed out before, people who played the progression server for example in EQ ALSO played the regular servers, and I mean people who haven't played EQ for years will pick it up and possibly play both. This could actually be an opportunity to advertise the normal servers. This is just one theory in my head, but none-the-less, it helps contradict random crap that people claim that a server wouldn't be successful.

[Yadam]

see draylo puts in the negatives cause he's just here to argue, but the good stuff about the old days was : actually working together to achieve everything, things took longer to do and felt like more of an accomplishment, even traveling took longer it made the game feel like an actual adventure, not just sit in town and warp whereever you want, there was more danger to the game back then. the storyline fights were capped so they were actually a challenge, which made them fun, breezing through everything at 99 is not fun. it's funny that he says we don't know what we're asking for, like we didn't play the game back then? we know what we're asking for, you're just a damn troll, but please keep posting draylo then this thread will keep getting more views and more people will find out about this idea, ^^

[nekrothing]

This is just one theory in my head, but none-the-less, it helps contradict random crap that people claim that a server wouldn't be successful.

Exactly, we have plenty of reasons to believe that a classic server could potentially benefit everyone. Also, I'd like to point out this article regarding Dragon Quest X:

http://kotaku.com/5933175/dragon-quest-x-is-both-forward-thinking-and-backwards-at-the-same-time


Dragon Quest X claims to be enjoyable for those who want to play alone—going so far as to dedicate two servers to single players. But while it can technically be played without grouping, actually doing so is far from practical—at least in the beginning. To solo the first boss in the game, you need to be almost double the level that a team of players would need to be. Moreover, when playing alone, I literally could not make enough money from killing monsters to pay my inn bill (unless I ran ten minutes back to the starting town). However, when I joined a group, not only were we able to adventure pretty much indefinitely (by pooling item drops for healing) but we were also making four times the experience per kill since we could go to much higher level areas.

Around level 15, your options for soloing take a sudden, positive turn. It is at this point (about 10-15 hours in) you gain access to one of the capital cities and have the income needed to unlock taverns. Taverns allow you to recruit other players' characters into your party as NPCs while they're offline. For a moderate fee, you can rent a group of characters for a maximum of 48 hours. The downside to this is that these characters will not level up along with you, and your control over their AI is rather limited. Still, they make soloing a viable option.

That said, being in a party of other players is still the most efficient way to play. And while there is no general chat channel in Dragon Quest X, joining a party is remarkably easy as people congregate at the entrances to towns, boss areas, and dungeons if they are looking to join a group. There are also tags you can place next to your name indicating, among other things, whether you'd like to play alone or in a group (so you can find a party even if you're already in the field). Of course, the icing on the cake is that players are exceptionally friendly and polite, making it easy to find a group no matter where you are or what you're doing.


Square Enix has mentioned many times that Dragon Quest X would have a plot as deep as any other game in the series. From the twenty hours I have put into the game so far, this seems to be true. Of course, what they didn't say is that in between story sections there would be ridiculous amounts of grinding.

And I don't mean what passes for grinding in modern MMORPGs—i.e. go to a town, load up on quests, and then get experience for killing monsters and completing the quests. No, I mean old school grinding where you just kill monsters for hour upon hour for no rhyme or reason other than wanting exp. Between levels 7 and 15 there was only a single quest; it took less than five minutes to complete and gave no experience points. Say what you will about slaughtering countless wolves for their pelts or what have you, at least it gives you the illusion of something constructive to do.

Sounds like Dragon Quest X is what this game used to be, back in the day. Huge focus on players grouping together to complete story missions? Check. Grinding experience with other players at camps with no repetitive quests in sight? Check.

How successful has Dragon Quest X been?

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2014/03/dragon_quest_x_reaches_one_million_sales_in_japan


Dragon Quest X Reaches One Million Sales In Japan

http://www.technobuffalo.com/2014/09/11/dragon-quest-x-on-nintendo-3ds-crashes-in-japan-square-enix-halts-shipments/


Streaming an MMORPG onto the Nintendo 3DS was always a risky endeavor, but Square Enix of Japan decided to take it anyway to tap the large Dragon Quest fanbase. It would appear that Dragon Quest X‘s newest port on the popular gaming device is proving a little too popular, and the service has all but crashed under the traffic after selling out in the first week.

Apparently, there are plenty of people who are interested in that style of gameplay.

[Draylo]

Guy, you will be gone in two days so I don't have to "troll" you. I just think you haven't thought this through very well at all. Things taking longer just for the sake of taking longer, lol! Yeah, you dont ever work together as a team nowdays right? *rolleyes*
BTW you can still travel the normal way, nobody is forcing you to use warps of any kind.

[PlumbGame]

I don't understand this guy. He blatantly doesn't get it, and trys to deter the argument with many "no one wants it" comments, though when proven otherwise, he turns to "you are just dumb" comments. He also makes it apparent that he is a troll, hence if you stay around, he will just keep trolling you.

[Demonjustin]

Either way, it's not accurate to say no one wants it. More that not enough people would want it enough for it to be worth it. If free servers that try to simulate the experience as best they can are barely able to get over 100 players then how would you expect a service that requires monthly payment with no new content being released to maintain itself? It sounds to me like it'd crumble quickly.

[nekrothing]

More that not enough people would want it enough for it to be worth it.

How did you come to this conclusion? There's more evidence to suggest that a classic server would be successful than a failure. Literally the only people who believe it'll be a failure are those that are against the idea completely, in which case, they're letting their emotions dictate their assumptions rather than basing their reasoning on evidence or logic.


If free servers that try to simulate the experience as best they can are barely able to get over 100 players then how would you expect a service that requires monthly payment with no new content being released to maintain itself?

It's already been mentioned before, but those free servers are buggy and broken. Values for experience gains and drop rates are all over the place, usually subject to what the server admin desires rather than what would be appropriate. Not to mention they aren't exactly accessible or advertised.

I'm actually impressed that they're able to maintain 100+ players despite all of those problems.

[Karbuncle]

Do you guys actually want old FFXI or do you just want to try and recapture your childhood/memory? Cause I think most of you truly THINK you want old FFXI, but what you want is actually to feel that joy you felt the first time through old FFXI. But that joy is impossible to recapture. You feel it once and the feeling is gone. This is called growing old, or moving on, or in simpler terms. Life. Bringing back old school XI in some form of classic servers just won't bring you the same joy and happiness you felt when you first went through those levels.

when you get to endgame what is it you look forward too? Lock outs? Finding 18 people to do meaningful content? camping ground kings? I mean... do you understand the significance of what you ask or are you trying to get MA FEELZ?

I loved FFXI as much as any man, in fact, I probably loved it more than all of you combined back in my prime of the game. Back when i was still leveling THF... but honestly, even if I could go back in do it, I wouldn't. It'd be an insult to my memory, it would be an insult to the friends I met leveling 1-75 back in the old days, it would be an insult to the fun I had back then. They are a memory, a memory I will cherish. Going back to an old school server is going to make the friends I lost on the way come back to XI, it won't make the hundreds of names on my friendslist light up.

And Demon makes a great point. If FREE servers that offer 75 era feel can barely scratch 100 players, what makes you think a classic server, which will need to be paid for, and will get no content updates, last? I have to imagine even you people must realize a game with no content added will get stale in a matter of moments, and then SE is back where they started, out the extra crash, and none the better to show for it. Even if those 100 people would hypothetically play 13$ just for "more stability", for how long? I mean really how long? Will this game, in classic mode, with no new content at all, be fun in a year? 2 years? 6 months? How long will it be "Fun" when you realize absolutely no new content will ever be added to it.

Reality is here, and FFXI 75 is gone, and there is no incentive for SE to bring it back. Can either join a free server or wait for the "There are no plans".

[Natasha]

Do you guys actually want old FFXI or do you just want to try and recapture your childhood/memory? Cause I think most of you truly THINK you want old FFXI, but what you want is actually to feel that joy you felt the first time through old FFXI. But that joy is impossible to recapture. You feel it once and the feeling is gone. This is called growing old, or moving on, or in simpler terms. Life. Bringing back old school XI in some form of classic servers just won't bring you the same joy and happiness you felt when you first went through those levels.

when you get to endgame what is it you look forward too? Lock outs? Finding 18 people to do meaningful content? camping ground kings? I mean... do you understand the significance of what you ask or are you trying to get MA FEELZ?

I loved FFXI as much as any man, in fact, I probably loved it more than all of you combined back in my prime of the game. Back when i was still leveling THF... but honestly, even if I could go back in do it, I wouldn't. It'd be an insult to my memory, it would be an insult to the friends I met leveling 1-75 back in the old days, it would be an insult to the fun I had back then. They are a memory, a memory I will cherish. Going back to an old school server is going to make the friends I lost on the way come back to XI, it won't make the hundreds of names on my friendslist light up.

And Demon makes a great point. If FREE servers that offer 75 era feel can barely scratch 100 players, what makes you think a classic server, which will need to be paid for, and will get no content updates, last? I have to imagine even you people must realize a game with no content added will get stale in a matter of moments, and then SE is back where they started, out the extra crash, and none the better to show for it. Even if those 100 people would hypothetically play 13$ just for "more stability", for how long? I mean really how long? Will this game, in classic mode, with no new content at all, be fun in a year? 2 years? 6 months? How long will it be "Fun" when you realize absolutely no new content will ever be added to it.

Reality is here, and FFXI 75 is gone, and there is no incentive for SE to bring it back. Can either join a free server or wait for the "There are no plans".

I know full well what i'm asking for, I don't remember if I said it here or not but I have been to just about every other MMO on the market and none of them are what I want to be playing. Would it be the same as my first time through? No, but it would be the kind of experience I am looking for which no other MMO is offering even ffxi itself until maybe everyone stops trying to use the WoW model as the only basis for an mmorpg.

[PlumbGame]

I don't know if it's worth even replying to these people anymore. They obviously feel very strongly to speak on our behalf, let alone make it blatantly obvious that only their stupid threads, and their stupid responses are the only thing of importance. Who cares that we have showed success of others companies doing stuff like this. No one wants it! To make matters worse, we are consistently repeating ourselves which really becomes such a nuisance after a while.

[Yadam]

Do you guys actually want old FFXI or do you just want to try and recapture your childhood/memory? Cause I think most of you truly THINK you want old FFXI, but what you want is actually to feel that joy you felt the first time through old FFXI. But that joy is impossible to recapture. You feel it once and the feeling is gone. This is called growing old, or moving on, or in simpler terms. Life. Bringing back old school XI in some form of classic servers just won't bring you the same joy and happiness you felt when you first went through those levels.

when you get to endgame what is it you look forward too? Lock outs? Finding 18 people to do meaningful content? camping ground kings? I mean... do you understand the significance of what you ask or are you trying to get MA FEELZ?

I loved FFXI as much as any man, in fact, I probably loved it more than all of you combined back in my prime of the game. Back when i was still leveling THF... but honestly, even if I could go back in do it, I wouldn't. It'd be an insult to my memory, it would be an insult to the friends I met leveling 1-75 back in the old days, it would be an insult to the fun I had back then. They are a memory, a memory I will cherish. Going back to an old school server is going to make the friends I lost on the way come back to XI, it won't make the hundreds of names on my friendslist light up.

And Demon makes a great point. If FREE servers that offer 75 era feel can barely scratch 100 players, what makes you think a classic server, which will need to be paid for, and will get no content updates, last? I have to imagine even you people must realize a game with no content added will get stale in a matter of moments, and then SE is back where they started, out the extra crash, and none the better to show for it. Even if those 100 people would hypothetically play 13$ just for "more stability", for how long? I mean really how long? Will this game, in classic mode, with no new content at all, be fun in a year? 2 years? 6 months? How long will it be "Fun" when you realize absolutely no new content will ever be added to it.

Reality is here, and FFXI 75 is gone, and there is no incentive for SE to bring it back. Can either join a free server or wait for the "There are no plans".

where to begin? let's see, first of you all you claim you love old ffxi more than all of us combined, yet you are not supporting getting back our old game? that's hilarious. Secondly, you mentioned how the free oldschool servers only get 100 people, i'll tell you why, first of all it's pc only, second of all it is really hard to get set up on your pc, thirdly even if you get it set up on your pc it's all buggy and shit cause it's not run by professionals. The server we are asking for would get more than 100 people on it. Oh, and it wouldn't effect your servers at all, so move along to another thread if you don't like it bud.

[mattkoko]

With all do respect Plume, I have read many of your responses. You can't tell people not to make their opinion sound superior when you do exactly the same. Every time someone expresses an opinion against yours, you complain that they don't read what you are saying. It is not that they don't read what you are saying. It is just that they don't agree with what you are saying. I am all up for friendly debates and love reading other peoples opinions, but your way of thinking seems to be "alright he/she doesn't agree with me. I guess he/she can't read properly or is just dumb." Others are allowed to disagree, and it does not make them illiterate if the they don't. And I know I am going to get quite a bit of fire from this but I said my piece.

[PlumbGame]

With all do respect Plume, I have read many of your responses. You can't tell people not to make their opinion sound superior when you do exactly the same. Every time someone expresses an opinion against yours, you complain that they don't read what you are saying. It is not that they don't read what you are saying. It is just that they don't agree with what you are saying. I am all up for friendly debates and love reading other peoples opinions, but your way of thinking seems to be "alright he/she doesn't agree with me. I guess he/she can't read properly or is just dumb." Others are allowed to disagree, and it does not make them illiterate if the they don't. And I know I am going to get quite a bit of fire from this but I said my piece.

There is no offense taken. I also don't say my opinions are superior. I point out how there has already been many answers to the same questions that keep being presented as if people aren't reading.

[Shirai]

where to begin? let's see, first of you all you claim you love old ffxi more than all of us combined, yet you are not supporting getting back our old game? that's hilarious.

Tell me, what is so hilarious about it?
I too loved the old FFXI, but I do not long back to those times either. Why? Because the magic is gone, a huge part of that magic was everything being new, having to figure things out for yourself.
That time is gone, everything is known and written down in several wikis and on tons of other guide pages and forums and placed into memories, there is nothing new to learn anymore.

Apart from that, the community that the old game had (And in my personal humble opinion what made the game so enjoyable)? Gone, moved on to the next MMO or quit MMO gaming altogether and moved on with their lives.
A "Clasic server" is not gonna bring the majority of them back to ffxi.
Those that do come back, how long do you think they'll play? A month, 3 months, a year? And how many people you figure will still be playing after the first year, on a game they have to pay a monthly fee for, but is not recieving any updates?


Secondly, you mentioned how the free oldschool servers only get 100 people, i'll tell you why, first of all it's pc only, second of all it is really hard to get set up on your pc, thirdly even if you get it set up on your pc it's all buggy and shit cause it's not run by professionals. The server we are asking for would get more than 100 people on it.

Answer me this: On what other platform would they sustain it?
PS2? That thing's at its end as it is already, they're not going to develope any re-release for that.

Xbox 360? Sorry, but that thing is nearing end of life as well. The next gen. is out and unlike Japanese manufacturers western developers don't really cling to older platforms.
In about 15 to 18 months Microsoft will drop support for that console as they did with their previous brick.
Apart from that, the only reason why FFXI is still up on 360 is because a lot people are still playing it through that platform. If Microsoft had its way the Xbox version of FFXI would have had their own servers and they wouldn't be able to play with the other platforms.
It's part of the reason why FFXIV isn't on the Xbox 360/One, MS demanded that FFXIV would get their own set of servers to play on and SQEX said no.
You think MS would agree to a FFXI re-release with for MS unfavorable conditions on a platform which is pretty much nearing its end of life phase already?

What remains is the PC as only sustainable platform for a seperate version of the game.

As for your conviction that enough people will come and play it, how many people do you know, personally, that would come running back to FFXI for this?


Oh, and it wouldn't effect your servers at all, so move along to another thread if you don't like it bud.
It would be nice if you stopped saying that, this is a forum, and as you are free to defend your point of view, so are we and we are not going away.

Apart from that, if you take the time to actually read, we are not telling SE not to do this, we are telling you several reasons why SE will most likely not do this and why this idea wouldn't be as popular as you think it will be.
This is called discussing and that is what a forum is for.

[vienne]

I loved the old ffxi, I have very fond memories of it...this server sounds like fun, but I know it would just turn out to be a dissapointment. Its like Karbuncle sais, Those names on your flist wont come back to life that awesome shell is not there anymore, and tbh my playtime nowadays is only a fraction of what it was back in 2004. It would take ages to accomplish anything.
Doubt many people would remain happy for a long time without some of the Q of life adjustments we've been seeing recently and lets not forget the lack of updates.

[nekrothing]

Those names on your flist wont come back to life that awesome shell is not there anymore

Seems like the only people who believe that a classic server wouldn't work are the one's under the assumption that nostalgia would be the only reason why anyone would want a classic server. That's why they believe it won't succeed, because they're assuming the only driving force behind the idea of a classic server is nostalgia. They don't seem to realize that some people just prefer that style of gameplay, that it's their preference.

Saying "things won't be like they used to" is completely irrelevant, because we aren't attempting to relive the past. We just prefer that slower-paced, group-orientated style of gameplay.


tbh my playtime nowadays is only a fraction of what it was back in 2004. It would take ages to accomplish anything.

I'm sorry to hear that, but my work schedule hasn't changed much since then, so I wouldn't have any issues accomplishing anything.

[Natasha]

Seems like the only people who believe that a classic server wouldn't work are the one's under the assumption that nostalgia would be the only reason why anyone would want a classic server. That's why they believe it won't succeed, because they're assuming the only driving force behind the idea of a classic server is nostalgia. They don't seem to realize that some people just prefer that style of gameplay, that it's their preference.

Saying "things won't be like they used to" is completely irrelevant, because we aren't attempting to relive the past. We just prefer that slower-paced, group-orientated style of gameplay.



I'm sorry to hear that, but my work schedule hasn't changed much since then, so I wouldn't have any issues accomplishing anything.

This is really the main problem right now, even people who want this aren't supporting us (we need the support to get an answer if the devs ever comment on these boards ... been nothing for a week) because they're already decided its impossible. Its more like they're finding excuses not to be invested.

As a side note, I don't know why people think its impossible to play ffxi casually. I actually did that for a while when in college I had a particularly packed schedule, I would only play about 6-8 hours a week and I still had a lot of fun and got things done (static parties and events).

[PlumbGame]

This is really the main problem right now, even people who want this aren't supporting us (we need the support to get an answer if the devs ever comment on these boards ... been nothing for a week) because they're already decided its impossible. Its more like they're finding excuses not to be invested.

As a side note, I don't know why people think its impossible to play ffxi casually. I actually did that for a while when in college I had a particularly packed schedule, I would only play about 6-8 hours a week and I still had a lot of fun and got things done (static parties and events).

That's what I don't understand. Some of these people currently playing FFXI talk about the grind that existed back in the days, even though it was limited by absurd lockouts. For example, complaining that no one hast time for dyna, yet these same people are doing dyna everyday. Also spamming delve everyday, or spamming X content that is now readily accessible everyday in current XI. Matter of fact, the ONLY thing that you spend more time on realistically is leveling up back in the days. There is more grind accessible to players now, than there was back then. Maybe it is just me though, because I have always played this game pretty religiously when I do play, and I feel like more now than ever, I have something I'm always spamming and not pigeon holed (well except the cookie cutter necessity that every one requires now, like aegis and empy pld etc).

[Vil]

Do you guys actually want old FFXI or do you just want to try and recapture your childhood/memory? Cause I think most of you truly THINK you want old FFXI, but what you want is actually to feel that joy you felt the first time through old FFXI. But that joy is impossible to recapture. You feel it once and the feeling is gone. This is called growing old, or moving on, or in simpler terms. Life. Bringing back old school XI in some form of classic servers just won't bring you the same joy and happiness you felt when you first went through those levels.

when you get to endgame what is it you look forward too? Lock outs? Finding 18 people to do meaningful content? camping ground kings? I mean... do you understand the significance of what you ask or are you trying to get MA FEELZ?

I loved FFXI as much as any man, in fact, I probably loved it more than all of you combined back in my prime of the game. Back when i was still leveling THF... but honestly, even if I could go back in do it, I wouldn't. It'd be an insult to my memory, it would be an insult to the friends I met leveling 1-75 back in the old days, it would be an insult to the fun I had back then. They are a memory, a memory I will cherish. Going back to an old school server is going to make the friends I lost on the way come back to XI, it won't make the hundreds of names on my friendslist light up.

And Demon makes a great point. If FREE servers that offer 75 era feel can barely scratch 100 players, what makes you think a classic server, which will need to be paid for, and will get no content updates, last? I have to imagine even you people must realize a game with no content added will get stale in a matter of moments, and then SE is back where they started, out the extra crash, and none the better to show for it. Even if those 100 people would hypothetically play 13$ just for "more stability", for how long? I mean really how long? Will this game, in classic mode, with no new content at all, be fun in a year? 2 years? 6 months? How long will it be "Fun" when you realize absolutely no new content will ever be added to it.

Reality is here, and FFXI 75 is gone, and there is no incentive for SE to bring it back. Can either join a free server or wait for the "There are no plans".

This sums up exactly how I feel. Like many, FFXI was my first MMO, and my first real online experience playing with others. I used to think a lot about the "old days", but I think...at this point in my life it's better left in the past.

A "classic" server, imo, wouldn't work, at least not for me and a lot of people I've kept in touch with over the years. Majority all agree that what made the XI 75 experience was the community..y'know, the silly stuff like running to Jeuno for the first time, exping up in sky, moon, sea, ToAU, downing Kirin with a full alliance..KillingIfrit, somepage, the Wiki drama...and of course the daily shenanigans like KS30 scorpions with full blm burn. Sure you can put the game back to the "pre-Abyssea" era, but by itself it wouldn't mean much. You'd need to rewind the clock to about 2004-2007, and I'm pretty sure a classic server cannot do that. It's been years...people have moved on.

I used to think I'd be the last man standing when and if the servers ever shut down...but what finally drove me to quit wasn't Abyssea, nor any of the recent changes..it was the fact that many of my friends and linkshell mates all for one reason or another quit. RL called, people got married, a few passed away (Hurricane Katrina :/ ), some moved overseas and couldn't play during NA times...etc.. multitude of reasons. It was folly to think the experience would last forever. The game, and its community, needed to evolve.

That said, speaking as a longtime veteran who played since NA release.. I actually DON'T long for the old days. Sure, I remember them fondly, and laugh when I reminisce about "you remember that time when x linkshell made Nidhogg flail and killed the whole pit?", but I'm not silly enough to think that in this day and age I can somehow recreate that and other experiences. Unless a Classic server can bring back the exact same people, the exact same linkshells and the exact same "server asshole" we all loved to hate, my experiences will never be like they were back then. But that's okay, because I like the changes that have happened in XI. Records of Eminence? Dang, about time! Being able to solo a lot of stuff? Dang, about time!

Ideally yes, it'd be great to have a community like back in the day, but speaking from my personal situation, I just simply don't have the time to play like I used to. I've kept an active XI sub since June of this year, but between Grad School and commissions and just daily chores, I can't be anything but casual (yes I know, filthy casual! ;p )

[Natasha]

That's what I don't understand. Some of these people currently playing FFXI talk about the grind that existed back in the days, even though it was limited by absurd lockouts. For example, complaining that no one hast time for dyna, yet these same people are doing dyna everyday. Also spamming delve everyday, or spamming X content that is now readily accessible everyday in current XI. Matter of fact, the ONLY thing that you spend more time on realistically is leveling up back in the days. There is more grind accessible to players now, than there was back then. Maybe it is just me though, because I have always played this game pretty religiously when I do play, and I feel like more now than ever, I have something I'm always spamming and not pigeon holed (well except the cookie cutter necessity that every one requires now, like aegis and empy pld etc).

Its a change in design philosophy from the more broad everquest like world mmo, to a more ffxiv like themepark attraction model. The new model focuses on always having a reason to log in daily, hence daily and weekly quest things and progression oriented endgame. Personally I am so sick and tired of that design with every major mmo on the market that I probably wont play any more MMOs until it changes. FFXI originally felt very connected and regardless of how long it took to do something I felt like effort put into it was effort well spent. It might take you 2 years to make a relic but at least when you got it it mattered, unlike wow/ffxiv/swtor/every raid tier endgame ever mmos where in 2 years you're still stuck grinding and will be til the end of time because you will always be in the same place relative to the gear curve as always.


Ideally yes, it'd be great to have a community like back in the day, but speaking from my personal situation, I just simply don't have the time to play like I used to. I've kept an active XI sub since June of this year, but between Grad School and commissions and just daily chores, I can't be anything but casual (yes I know, filthy casual! ;p )

Nothing wrong with being casual, its just that casual play requires an adjustment of perspective. Casual players shouldn't be expecting to keep pace with non-casual players. As I said just a bit ago, I managed to play ffxi pretty well casually in pre-abyssea just by scheduling things appropriately. Also, for me personally, while I do have fond social memories like most I actually miss the style of game it was not just the social that came with it.

[PlumbGame]

Its a change in design philosophy from the more broad everquest like world mmo, to a more ffxiv like themepark attraction model. The new model focuses on always having a reason to log in daily, hence daily and weekly quest things and progression oriented endgame. Personally I am so sick and tired of that design with every major mmo on the market that I probably wont play any more MMOs until it changes. FFXI originally felt very connected and regardless of how long it took to do something I felt like effort put into it was effort well spent. It might take you 2 years to make a relic but at least when you got it it mattered, unlike wow/ffxiv/swtor/every raid tier endgame ever mmos where in 2 years you're still stuck grinding and will be til the end of time because you will always be in the same place relative to the gear curve as always.

Yeah, I guess something else that was more prevalent in older FFXI than current (it does still exist to a certain extent, so please no one think I'm saying it doesn't exist at all), is that most items seem to be relevant in some aspect for your character. So it meant even the little things you do could be beneficial to you in some way or form. Leaping boots for example, might not be best at 75 (even though I saw some thfs still using them for example till they could get something better), but obviously used in lvling other characters, and beneficial for lvl capped content that might be used to benefit your 75 characters.

[Karbuncle]

where to begin? let's see, first of you all you claim you love old ffxi more than all of us combined, yet you are not supporting getting back our old game? that's hilarious. Secondly, you mentioned how the free oldschool servers only get 100 people, i'll tell you why, first of all it's pc only, second of all it is really hard to get set up on your pc, thirdly even if you get it set up on your pc it's all buggy and shit cause it's not run by professionals. The server we are asking for would get more than 100 people on it. Oh, and it wouldn't effect your servers at all, so move along to another thread if you don't like it bud.

Do you truly fail to understand how someone can love something and at the same time let it go and cherish it as a memory, for all that its worth?

I really thought that was a pretty common emotional response. I can cherish all the memories, friends, events, Eco-Warrior, Soloing Avatars as a 20 Summoner back when it was hard... etc that I did all those years ago and not whine and beg needlessly for it to come back to me just fine.

I was one of the first SMNs on the server with Diabolos... that was an achievement back in the day... I got Fenrir at level 50, most summoners didn't have him to 75 when I was playing. I had all my avatars at 20 (solo'd them all, it was the most fun and challenging thing I had ever done on FFXI)... again, back then, most barely had more than Carbuncle.

I still think about the old FFXI, the times when I was 13-14 or so, getting home from school, and playing the game with my older brother. I loved every minute of it, the thrill of finding new areas, beating CoP, etc. But I respect them for what they are, memories. I don't need to have SE bring back a level 75 era server, because I love FFXI so much for what it is, that I enjoyed it through Abyssea, through the Add ons, and now through Adoulin. This is where we differ, and why I can say with certainty I enjoy and love FFXI more than any of you, because I enjoy it still today, through all the ups and downs, I can still say I am happy with how this game is.

Still, you're as free to make your requests, as I am to respond to them. I'll make a deal though, I'll leave this thread behind when SE releases a classic server.


Smart

Thank you very much :)

[Natasha]

Do you truly fail to understand how someone can love something and at the same time let it go and cherish it as a memory, for all that its worth?

I really thought that was a pretty common emotional response. I can cherish all the memories, friends, events, Eco-Warrior, Soloing Avatars as a 20 Summoner back when it was hard... etc that I did all those years ago and not whine and beg needlessly for it to come back to me just fine.

I was one of the first SMNs on the server with Diabolos... that was an achievement back in the day... I got Fenrir at level 50, most summoners didn't have him to 75 when I was playing. I had all my avatars at 20 (solo'd them all, it was the most fun and challenging thing I had ever done on FFXI)... again, back then, most barely had more than Carbuncle.

I still think about the old FFXI, the times when I was 13-14 or so, getting home from school, and playing the game with my older brother. I loved every minute of it, the thrill of finding new areas, beating CoP, etc. But I respect them for what they are, memories. I don't need to have SE bring back a level 75 era server, because I love FFXI so much for what it is, that I enjoyed it through Abyssea, through the Add ons, and now through Adoulin. This is where we differ, and why I can say with certainty I enjoy and love FFXI more than any of you, because I enjoy it still today, through all the ups and downs, I can still say I am happy with how this game is.

Still, you're as free to make your requests, as I am to respond to them. I'll make a deal though, I'll leave this thread behind when SE releases a classic server.

I'd argue you don't love it all that much as what stands today is a different game entirely, but thats purely my opinion on the matter and is neither here nor there.

The thing is, I am so tired of these modern mmo mechanics and felt quite cheated that the game was changed to be that way at all. Its not about leaving it as a memory, its about that being the kind of game I am looking for and being unable to find it elsewhere. Thats why it cant just be left to that, because that leaves me with nothing now, no mmo home anymore. Can you think of a better place to request ffxi than on ffxi?

[Vil]

The thing is, I am so tired of these modern mmo mechanics and felt quite cheated that the game was changed to be that way at all. Its not about leaving it as a memory, its about that being the kind of game I am looking for and being unable to find it elsewhere. Thats why it cant just be left to that, because that leaves me with nothing now, no mmo home anymore. Can you think of a better place to request ffxi than on ffxi?

There is a reason why modern mmo mechanics pop up so much: its what works. It's what the market wants. SE is above all, a company, and if switching to more modern standards keeps their business afloat, then that's what they gotta do.

XI's old model worked when there wasn't that much competition flooding the market -- back then was different though, not just in terms of gaming, but in technology itself. PCs and consoles weren't what they are now, even the Internet itself has evolved. I'm sure you loved the old XI just as much as the next guy who claims it, but at some point you need to think about it: what made SE feel the need to change the game, and on such a drastic level at that? Simple. The old model wasn't going to work for much longer. XI was already past its peak, subs were stagnant, if not dropping slowly (WoW has something very similar to this, where veterans long for the "Burning Crusade" days). In order to stay relevant in the market, SE had to make its changes.

Whether or not you like these changes is your own opinion though, and as you've expressed, you are not fond of the modern style of MMO gaming. I'm not sure what exactly you hope to find in a "classic server", because once the novelty wears off, you will find yourself in a ghost town, unable to complete any content because the old model required a good amount of people to participate (old 64 person Dynamis, alliance-based Limbus, full party to full alliance to take down NMs like Tiamat).

Also, as someone pointed out, there IS a private server with the XI 75 model intact. And like it was mentioned, that barely scratches 100 persons, and its free. If you haven't already, why not take a peek at that and see if its something you'd like? Me, personally, I've known about it for awhile, but have no interest in it. Like REALER SUMMONER said up there, I like the changes XI made. A lot of them were needed years and years ago (like teleporting between homepoints, oh my god lol, finally).


I'd argue you don't love it all that much as what stands today is a different game entirely, but thats purely my opinion on the matter and is neither here nor there.

Name one game that is as old as XI, still running, that is exactly the same as it was during its prime. The very example that sparked this discussion, Lineage 2, is evidence in itself that the game evolved and wasn't the same. WoW is hardly the same as in its BC day. These games all have two choices: evolve or pull the plug. Guess which one the companies chose to do? :p

[nekrothing]

The very example that sparked this discussion, Lineage 2, is evidence in itself that the game evolved and wasn't the same.

It evolved into something that caused players to stop playing. Once they added the classic servers, they received an enormous population boost.

[Vil]

It evolved into something that caused players to stop playing. Once they added the classic servers, they received an enormous population boost.

I think the real test will be how long those classic servers stay active. Sure, people will flock to the idea of "old skool", but as far as a long-term sustainability..well, idk how long it'll last :p

[nekrothing]

I think the real test will be how long those classic servers stay active. Sure, people will flock to the idea of "old skool", but as far as a long-term sustainability..well, idk how long it'll last :p

True, we have no way of knowing if it'll continue to be successful six months down the road.

However, they've already confirmed that more international classic servers are in the works, so they seem to be pretty confident. There's also a ton of hype from the EU/RU community. Hopefully everything works out for them.

[nekrothing]

Now where on this planet did they confirm that?!

Talking about Lineage 2.

[Shirai]

Yeah, corrected myself there.

Alcohol induced derp, apologies.

[Logical5]

I haven't had the opportunity to peruse several pages of this thread yet, so forgive me if this has already been raised, but there's a substantial argument to be made for a "classic" server in that it probably would consume minimal resources to set up. And even if server expenses are, through some hideous irony, very costly, I would still speculate that the temporary surge in subscriptions from returning veterans in the first few months could very likely offset the cost of creating said single server (both the intangible cost of coding alterations, and the physical cost of the server itself).

That said, from SE's perspective, creating a classic server is a form of backpedaling that isn't very likely. It's effectively paramount to making the admission that a sizable minority of players aren't as pleased with the current game as they were years ago, in a primordial era before the slew of content and quality of life updates we have received in recent years. This, in my opinion, is an admission that SE, especially as a Japanese company that takes pride in their product (likely at the expense of what could be a potentially profitable venture with little financial risk involved), will not make. Unless subscriptions continue to decline. They will probably eventually reach a point where subs are low enough and revenue from XI is so poor that it would justify a single "legacy" or "classic" server (in a last-ditch-effort sort of sense).

That being said, I wholeheartedly endorse this idea. I for one loved every minute of FFXI back in the classic era. I loved camping Kings until 3 in the morning (and getting up tired for work or something the next day - a worthy price!), I loved the HNM linkshell-competition of it all (even if we lost the claim, which was frequent enough...I Relished the process even of merely sitting in DA, waiting for the next Fafhogg window on a day 8 Faf...) I loved getting up, only to find that Tiamat had popped and that my shell needed BLMs. It was about community, and we have lost that sense of community now. Maybe we could find it again in a Classic server that caters only to this type of player.

I also loved the difficulty of partying and leveling in a climate inherently hostile to certain jobs. On this point, I am the kind of player who plays jobs which are in demand, jobs which benefit my team. The only fun and joy that I ever derived from job selection at 75 was the knowledge that all of my choices on my three characters back then (jobs like BLM, BRD, RDM, THF, SAM) were all centrally useful to my endgame shell. It wasn't a focus on me, but a focus on the linkshell; I was interested in playing certain jobs because it was to the benefit of my linkshell, my team, my comrades. This type of sentiment is very nearly dead today. (This is not to be confused with people leveling MNK or WHM to simply easily access Delve/Battlefield content nowadays...the distinguishable difference is the mental element, the leveler's state of mind...)

If SE does buckle and gives us a Classic server, I would request a restoration (and expansion) of the traditional HNM system. Perhaps even an expansion of wide-open explorable zones like Sky and Sea, which were not constrained by time limits but similarly required more than a duo to kill Gods/Jailers, and so on.

My advice to SE: Go out on a limb, swallow your pride, and try a Classic server. If you refuse, how about conducting a survey to gauge player interest - I assure you that the results will be encouraging.

[Aidrianna]

I would enjoy a "classic" server.

"Move on already!" isn't a useful argument against it.

[Suteru]

A classic server wouldn't work unless it was backed with a huge population surge. The numbers in the game today couldn't handle the old-style game.

[Camiie]

A classic server wouldn't work unless it was backed with a huge population surge. The numbers in the game today couldn't handle the old-style game.

Exactly. The old game required lots of people to keep the gil, materials, and equipment flowing. Even if you matched the population of a present day, up-to-date server (which is unlikely and also not saying much) it wouldn't be realistically sustainable.

[Stompa]

A classic server wouldn't work unless it was backed with a huge population surge. The numbers in the game today couldn't handle the old-style game.

This, quoted above, is the main reason that a voluntary retro server might fail.

The other reason is that the old game worked OK because people did not know anything else. They had not leeched lvl 30-99 while asleep in doll ops, lol. They had never felt the happy, bouncy and quite frankly sexy feeling you get when you enter a capped battle and your level 99 gear scales down automatically. No need for energy earring+1s or seer's set+1s in your moghouse lol. Just enter the bc and you automatically have the correct level armors and weaps. People in the old game had never experience level-synch, and so we made do without it (I hope our dc'd paladin can reconnect to POL soon, there's no other lvl 45 PLDs looking for party!).

And the problem with all that is, now people have tasted the sugary delights of enhanced movement speed, level synch, HP warp, Free Stuff all the time, Trusts and uncapped solo mission progress, and gear scaling etc.etc.

I have real doubts that the majority of people would want to stop enjoying these honey-glazed chocolate treats of FFXI 2014, and go back to the cold watery gruel that we ate every day in the old game. We ate that gruel because it was all we had lol.

[Logical5]

It isn't necessary to think of a classic server solely in the context of using the old 2007 spaghetti code. For example, they could retain level sync and the quality of life adjustments (which may very well be simpler from the a work-required-to-implement perspective), and merely strip away all modern content. I would certainly personally hope that SE would nix trusts and keep missions group-focused and level capped, though.

Additionally, the point about the number of players required to create a functional server economy is a fair argument. However, some simple changes might alleviate that, though - for example, they could reduce the costs certain NPCs charged to help control the outflow of gil in the economy. And level sync would be a helpful tool to assist in filling that odd slot or two in exp parties. Or perhaps make some changes to crafting to speed the craft-leveling process up so nudge the economy a bit.

But we're picking at details unnecessarily - if SE performed a survey that generated substantial interest and indicated positive subscription revenue potential, what would be the harm in going forward with a classic server? I'm having trouble justifying the opposition's staunch resistance to this idea - none of us have any idea what SE's internal cost structure looks like, and it's all conjecture. I'm just pushing for them to take notice of this as a potential way to augment subscription revenue by re-interesting old, unsubscribed players - if it makes sense for them from a financial perspective, why offer such vehement discouragement against a legacy or classic server?

[Malithar]

It isn't necessary to think of a classic server solely in the context of using the old 2007 spaghetti code. For example, they could retain level sync and the quality of life adjustments (which may very well be simpler from the a work-required-to-implement perspective), and merely strip away all modern content.

At that point, what is the point? Find like minded people in the game now and set such things up. The old school content and gear hasn't gone away. "But we have abilities, spells, and jobs that weren't around back then! QQ" Then ban them from the runs your group does.

Personally don't care one way or another about a classic server, but I'd put myself in the camp saying it wouldn't work for many of the reasons stated already. Just don't see the point of clamoring for such a thing when by and large, the tools are available to have your own classic renditions. RMEs don't scale correctly? They weren't a dime a dozen back then anyways, do the content without them. Don't have access to your AF/relic cause you reforged? Request/re-get it. Staying on a current server and making it work with a group of like minded people also solves the supply issue, shout around and find people willing to make old gear that you need.

If anything, I'd be asking for a way to manually set a lvl cap for the group, so you don't need to worry about finding a lvl 75 job to sync to to be able to do the content in the way that you wish.