Classic Server

[Natasha]

Hello, this is a thread intended for direct feedback to the devs/community team (as there is no way that I am aware of to send feedback directly) not meant to be a topic of debate.

I would like to request that, if possible, the devs make available one FFXI server that is set to an earlier patch date. Specifically, the furthest along patch when the level cap was 75 before the addition of the back to back repeatable grounds of valor/fields of valor (as book burns are against the idea of the 'classic' experience).

This is something that a number of other games have offered (the main ones that come to mind are everquest progression servers which are similar but slightly different from what I am asking, and runescape classic functionality, there is also a lineage 2 classic server) and I think something that would be great to offer here.

This server would be a single server with a different patch or a rule set that makes everything since the intended patch not exist on the server. This could be done at the same time as making other server changes like server consolidation for population purposes.

As a huge fan of the game you have made, please look into seeing if this is possible. If it is not, then it is what it is but this would be a great thing for some of us out there.

Please support this with a like.

note: Please stop speaking as to the developers limitations as I highly doubt you or anyone in here knows the details of them. If you're wrong about the developers limitations then you are just spreading useless misinformation, if you are right about them then we still end up with nothing because it is unconfirmed and unofficial. Let the devs speak for themselves should they choose to, its not your responsibility as a member of the community to do so.

___________________________________________________________________________________

[Stompa]

That would be reset to 2009 I guess, because Aby arrived in early 2010.

Would you like the reset to include "no level-synch" and no "auto gear-scaling" for capped events? And how do you think that 2014 lower server numbers would provide enough people to fill parties on the correct job / level / time of day. If this server was small (I think it would be) who would synth all the correct cap armors / weapons required for levelling-up and for engaging in capped events without gear-scaling.

Quite honestly my years 2004-2009 on Remora were my happiest days in Vanadiel, I liked the level 75 cap etc. So its not that I don't see your point of view. I just wonder how the lower player numbers in 2014, and the even lower numbers on an optional retro niche server, would have enough bodies to fill regular xp parties with the right levels / jobs / timezones etc. and how those small server numbers would farm the mats and synth the gear for all the level-capped parties.

[Natasha]

That would be reset to 2009 I guess, because Aby arrived in early 2010.

Would you like the reset to include "no level-synch" and no "auto gear-scaling" for capped events? And how do you think that 2014 lower server numbers would provide enough people to fill parties on the correct job / level / time of day. If this server was small (I think it would be) who would synth all the correct cap armors / weapons required for levelling-up and for engaging in capped events without gear-scaling.

Quite honestly my years 2004-2009 on Remora were my happiest days in Vanadiel, I liked the level 75 cap etc. So its not that I don't see your point of view. I just wonder how the lower player numbers in 2014, and the even lower numbers on an optional retro niche server, would have enough bodies to fill regular xp parties with the right levels / jobs / timezones etc. and how those small server numbers would farm the mats and synth the gear for all the level-capped parties.

Well, as you say there are risks but its something I think should be tried anyway. If it doesn't work, whats the worst that could happen? They shut the classic server down and ppl go back to the current ones. Personally though, I think theres a lot of potential for this to work, as there being only 1 server there would likely be a few people from all the current servers that swap over and I think we would even draw in some returning players who long for the old school ways. As for the level sync, while I was not a fan of it when it was added I think it should stick for this classic server on your point actually that we may have fewer players there so having tools like that may be needed. I think that still supports the classic but makes it approachable with lesser means which is more mandatory now than when it was originally added.

[Bamph]

Well, as you say there are risks but its something I think should be tried anyway. If it doesn't work, whats the worst that could happen? They shut the classic server down and ppl go back to the current ones. Personally though, I think theres a lot of potential for this to work, as there being only 1 server there would likely be a few people from all the current servers that swap over and I think we would even draw in some returning players who long for the old school ways. As for the level sync, while I was not a fan of it when it was added I think it should stick for this classic server on your point actually that we may have fewer players there so having tools like that may be needed. I think that still supports the classic but makes it approachable with lesser means which is more mandatory now than when it was originally added.

It does sound like an interesting experiment... I would love to see the results of a 2009-era server with everyone starting from the 6 level 1 starter jobs. (Since I'm figuring that you wouldn't be able to transport your toon you currently have over).

[ruzoko]

That would be reset to 2009 I guess, because Aby arrived in early 2010.

Would you like the reset to include "no level-synch" and no "auto gear-scaling" for capped events? And how do you think that 2014 lower server numbers would provide enough people to fill parties on the correct job / level / time of day. If this server was small (I think it would be) who would synth all the correct cap armors / weapons required for levelling-up and for engaging in capped events without gear-scaling.

Quite honestly my years 2004-2009 on Remora were my happiest days in Vanadiel, I liked the level 75 cap etc. So its not that I don't see your point of view. I just wonder how the lower player numbers in 2014, and the even lower numbers on an optional retro niche server, would have enough bodies to fill regular xp parties with the right levels / jobs / timezones etc. and how those small server numbers would farm the mats and synth the gear for all the level-capped parties.

It wouldn't be a bad idea at all to have a server that's a pre-aby one, i preferred those days to afterwards. As for the concern for how the small server would operate SE would hopefully take some of the improvements to the game and implement them to it, as you said level sync the gear scaling and such, the hours of waiting for a party because I wasn't around the level I can do without lol.

[Stompa]

So it sounds like it is not a "full reset" to those times, but basically level 75 and all old systems, except gear scaling and level synch, which would be included despite being more modern additions.

You would probably need to keep some of the level-specific casket-drop armors/weaps, and maybe a RoE-type NPC who sells lvl 1-75 basic armor/weaps. Because if everyone is xping and doing events on the old slowmode system, you aren't going to have enough people synthing and farming all the mats for making gear. Sure there will be some people fulltiming the synthesis lifestyle, but probably not enough to provide all the level-specific gear for a whole server.

The other problem I can see is people who have built RME past lvl 75 lol. Those people are not going to join your server, and lose all the work they did.

Its a nice idea though and I'm sure quite a few people would be interested.

[Natasha]

So it sounds like it is not a "full reset" to those times, but basically level 75 and all old systems, except gear scaling and level synch, which would be included despite being more modern additions.

You would probably need to keep some of the level-specific casket-drop armors/weaps, and maybe a RoE-type NPC who sells lvl 1-75 basic armor/weaps. Because if everyone is xping and doing events on the old slowmode system, you aren't going to have enough people synthing and farming all the mats for making gear. Sure there will be some people fulltiming the synthesis lifestyle, but probably not enough to provide all the level-specific gear for a whole server.

The other problem I can see is people who have built RME past lvl 75 lol. Those people are not going to join your server, and lose all the work they did.

Its a nice idea though and I'm sure quite a few people would be interested.

I would prefer to avoid having those kinds of vendors in the server at least at the start and add them if it is needed when the population flattens out. There are already at least a few places to get supplementary gear such as normal gil vendors and conquest points etc. Also idk, I personally have an i119 apocalypse and several other RME things and I welcome dropping it all to go back.

[bungiefanNA]

Between the low population now, and the cost of maintaining two different forks of the game (because new bugs will be found in that seperate server version), that's a very large risk, with the resources we have now. They're already accellerated to monthly patches, versus the 3-4 a year they were doing before Abyssea, and with fewer staff to do so. It would harm the more populated version of the game to do so. There's also concern that the current player base has aged on average, and now has less free time to do things, hence the QoL improvements they are doing. Something like this is better done by the community running unofficial servers, because they're doing it as a hobby, rather than requiring a lot of payment to do it, and there can be a larger dev team involved.

[Spectreman]

They wont do it for 2 reasons:

1- It will cost them time and won't get any money for that

2- It will split an already low game population which will be VERY bad for the standard game

[ruzoko]

They wont do it for 2 reasons:

1- It will cost them time and won't get any money for that

2- It will split an already low game population which will be VERY bad for the standard game
Money = possibly
Split a low game population = doubtful
Many left as is DUE to the fact abyssea and the aftermath was introduced including myself. It's a possibility a server of the original layout of ffxi would attract many players back seeing as I myself have spoken to many people who all agree they wish FFXI had not changed post 75

[Natasha]

They wont do it for 2 reasons:

1- It will cost them time and won't get any money for that

2- It will split an already low game population which will be VERY bad for the standard game


Between the low population now, and the cost of maintaining two different forks of the game (because new bugs will be found in that seperate server version), that's a very large risk, with the resources we have now. They're already accellerated to monthly patches, versus the 3-4 a year they were doing before Abyssea, and with fewer staff to do so. It would harm the more populated version of the game to do so. There's also concern that the current player base has aged on average, and now has less free time to do things, hence the QoL improvements they are doing. Something like this is better done by the community running unofficial servers, because they're doing it as a hobby, rather than requiring a lot of payment to do it, and there can be a larger dev team involved.

And yet this was done with games in similar situations (most applicable to everquest) so it is obviously not something that is impossible. For the bugs, being that it would be using a previous or even current build of the game the bugs would be minimal. As for the age of the playerbase, a lot of people who played the game BACK THEN were in that age range and managed just fine so I am not sure why you would assume that matters especially since if they don't like it its only a server option?

Finally, in response to it getting them no money that is just flat out incorrect. If that were the case then why do we have patches? The mmo industry is a "service" industry and offering options such is this is a service that will help to keep players or bring back old players or even possibly bring in new players.

[bungiefanNA]

They can't use a current build, as they'd have to modify it to turn off a bunch of things (Abyssea, Adoulin, the QoL improvements in the past year, new job traits and abilities, NPCs related to level 76+ content), which would make a new build, which would have new bugs. Old builds have bugs they've fixed with more recent patches. Reverting to a previous build would reintroduce those bugs.

Also, the game client and server need to identify as matching versions. Notice that the test server required a seperate install.

[PlumbGame]

It won't split the community, in fact, most CURRENT players are perfectly content with the CURRENT game. This is more of an opportunity to bring back players. If Everquest is any example to use, a time-locked/progression server is very successful. In fact, most the players that came back played on both the specific server type AND the normal servers. So it can actually grab more attention towards what SE is doing with the game. I also think "splitting" the currennt population is irrelevant considering content now and days is only done with 6 people. Anyways, the idea of a server like this is great, one issue with receiving feedback for it though is the people who would love this server aren't around these forums. Which actually leads into another issue, SE would have to do some type of promotion to "experience FFXI during it's pinnacle" and crap like that.

The real issue is the money. If they invested time to do something like this, would they make a profit? From 2 different experiences, I personally believe so, RO's progression server, and EQs progression server were both examples of success. Do I think it could work for FFXI? Definitely, matter of fact, I'm willing to bet with the current state of a lot of the players in FFXIV feel like they have nothing to do, might jump at the opportunity to play FFXI during the beginning eras again during their downtime in 14 (promotion example).

Ultimately, I would love a server like this. I feel SE could make it a success. Will they do it though? Really hard to say, maybe they have something in the works. I mean look at all the campaigning they do to bring back players already, what's to say something like this isn't already on the agenda?

[PlumbGame]

They can't use a current build, as they'd have to modify it to turn off a bunch of things (Abyssea, Adoulin, the QoL improvements in the past year, new job traits and abilities, NPCs related to level 76+ content), which would make a new build, which would have new bugs. Old builds have bugs they've fixed with more recent patches. Reverting to a previous build would reintroduce those bugs.

Also, the game client and server need to identify as matching versions. Notice that the test server required a seperate install.

Do you really think that they don't have back ups of older versions? The only real issue is making sure older versions are compatible with windows 7/8. Companies, and people in general don't just throw out old stuff. Even more so, anyone that programs can tell you this especially in this kind of field. You think lawyers would get done with a lawsuit and just throw away everything relevant to that case? It's a way of life, almost like writing in a journal or something. There is some valid arguments to why SE shouldn't do this, but I guarantee what you are saying isn't one of them.

Better way to explain it. SE makes older version of FFXI compatible with current operating systems. SE just re-implements everything that wait for it......... already exists.

[Natasha]

They can't use a current build, as they'd have to modify it to turn off a bunch of things (Abyssea, Adoulin, the QoL improvements in the past year, new job traits and abilities, NPCs related to level 76+ content), which would make a new build, which would have new bugs. Old builds have bugs they've fixed with more recent patches. Reverting to a previous build would reintroduce those bugs.

Also, the game client and server need to identify as matching versions. Notice that the test server required a seperate install.

Note again that this has been done with games in a similar situation (everquest is even older than ffxi) so its definitely possible. Further, please stop speaking as to the developers limitations as I highly doubt you or anyone in here knows the details of them. If you're wrong about the developers limitations then you are just spreading useless misinformation, if you are right about them then we still end up with nothing because it is unconfirmed. Let the devs speak for themselves should they choose to, its not your responsibility as a member of the community to do so.

[Ris]

I don't know, I would prefer the devs' limited time and resources be put into the mainstream FFXI.

They probably do have the old versions' archives but it's not as simple as just throwing it on some server somewhere. People will still expect support, and if it catches on they'll want seasonal events and other content ported to it... And isn't there a lot of long term progression goals in FFXI right now for people that want to do that kind of thing?

[Natasha]

I don't know, I would prefer the devs' limited time and resources be put into the mainstream FFXI.

They probably do have the old versions' archives but it's not as simple as just throwing it on some server somewhere. People will still expect support, and if it catches on they'll want seasonal events and other content ported to it... And isn't there a lot of long term progression goals in FFXI right now for people that want to do that kind of thing?

As stated above, refrain from assuming the devs do not have the resources for the project as none of us know exactly what resources they have available. It would probably be better to state something like "I'm not against it as long as it doesn't interfere with the main version of the game." as that states your position while still holding the provision of 'don't do it if the cost is too great'.

As for the second statement, FFXI right now is a very different kind of game from the final fantasy of old. Long term progression or not it isn't offering the experience that I expect from FFXI, and there are others who share this view. Not to condemn current FFXI if you like it, but its not the game I loved for many years.

[PlumbGame]

I don't know, I would prefer the devs' limited time and resources be put into the mainstream FFXI.

They probably do have the old versions' archives but it's not as simple as just throwing it on some server somewhere. People will still expect support, and if it catches on they'll want seasonal events and other content ported to it... And isn't there a lot of long term progression goals in FFXI right now for people that want to do that kind of thing?

This is the biggest issue I see. Would releasing said servers prevent resources from being put into mainstream FFXI? This isn't really something we can answer, because we don't really know. Like I pointed out in previous comments though, you can use what we do know from other games that have done some type of suggested server for a basis. I feel it wouldn't, because if these servers were successful, it would allow the resources to use people specifically for those servers rather than using current staff. Now, that isn't to say SE would do that, and in fact it would probably be smarter to not do that since everything is already in place if some sort of "back ups" really do exist. All they basically need to do is flip a switch. It may come with bugs which is another story, but that is also under the assumption that those bugs didn't already have some sort of fix already. Since we live in a different era though with different operating systems etc. It would be safe to assume that something may be possibly bugged, though there also exists the chance that it's not. Considering though that FFXI is still alive and going, if something WAS bugged, the fixes would be phenomenally faster since there is a version of FFXI that already doesn't have said bugs.

Also, stuff like GMs and things use to be volunteered. I don't know if that is the case anymore, and don't really care to find out, but if that is still the case, even GM activity is void. Seasonal events? How is that even an issue, most the seasonal events existed back in the days that exist now, your saying it would be harder to give said server a Christmas event over normal servers?

Long term progression goals? I don't quite understand what you mean by this. Are you referring that people can create basically their own progression LS? If so, that is possible in a game like FFXI since nothing has been removed (well besides things like not being forced to lvl down for certain content which makes certain things basically impossible to relive), but it's just different. It's really hard to explain, and different for every person. For me, a big problem is not everyone else around me is doing the same thing, so it ruins my experience, almost like whats the point. Also, given the choice, I would rather take the easier route than make my life harder. The game, although content still exists, has significantly changed, from certain unique NMs have significantly reduced spawn timers, and exp rates through the roof, even just grinding mobs, 25% increased base movement etc. A lot of that stuff can't just be removed trying to create your own time-locked expansion LS or something.

[PlumbGame]

I think a couple of the issues I do have that if something like this were to happen, there needs to be better measures in place for RMT and claim bots. Those were absolutely out of hand, and that is also something that has been huge on games that have done progression servers, RMT work their magic on them so fast.

[Ris]

As stated above, refrain from assuming the devs do not have the resources for the project as none of us know exactly what resources they have available. It would probably be better to state something like "I'm not against it as long as it doesn't interfere with the main version of the game."

I guess I can't really complain when you say it like that, but even if the cost is small... I don't mean that they don't have the resources, but I do think that those resources would come out of FFXI's total budget. Like they're not going to hire anyone new for it...

So my feedback to the devs is please keep focusing on the mainstream game (unless you could hire someone new to work on side projects that don't add to the main game).

[Elphy]

It may bring ppl back so it may be worth the money.

All I know is nearly our entire ls quit the game after abyssea was released and things like dynamis were destroyed. And since Adoulin/ARR the population seems to be dwindling all the more. Maybe a good ol reset on a single server would be a good choice.

[geekgirl101]

I doubt SE still has the old code to roll back to. They would essentially have to rewrite the whole thing, thus creating a new game, and I doubt they have the staff or enough interest in doing such a project.


I think a couple of the issues I do have that if something like this were to happen, there needs to be better measures in place for RMT and claim bots. Those were absolutely out of hand, and that is also something that has been huge on games that have done progression servers, RMT work their magic on them so fast.

One such game got around that hurdle by blocking out China ISPs. Cut the amount of RMT activity by a lot.

[Natasha]

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/05/29/lineage-ii-classic-server-detailed/

Lineage 2 is currently in the process of launching three subscription-based hybrid-classic servers

Now, how is this relevant? For quite some time, there are those who have hoped that Square would release some sort of classic server for FFXI. With the recent influx of players, the aging Lineage 2 has proved that it might be worthwhile for Square to test the waters with their own hybrid-classic server. If it'll revitalize the population and bring people back, having some sort "PTS-Classic Server" to gauge the interest wouldn't be a bad idea.

Apparently lineage 2 is also going to be hosting a classic server of sorts, lets not miss out on this SE.

[nekrothing]

Apparently lineage 2 is also going to be hosting a classic server of sorts, lets not miss out on this SE.

Here are some more links highlighting the success of these classic servers:

Second classic server launched, with international ones being considered: http://2p.com/6773375_1/Innova-wants...by-Apophis.htm

Third classic server launched: http://i.imgur.com/e2zryGU.jpg

EU classic server confirmed: http://boards.rochand.com/viewtopic....art=350#p27507

NA classic server being considered: http://s16.postimg.org/ce6zleln9/Dear_NCsoft.png

[Natasha]

Here are some more links highlighting

Thanks for hopping over, even though I broke the news a bit early. xD

Wasn't sure if you would or not.

[Zarchery]

Do you really think that they don't have back ups of older versions?

You really think Square Enix is keeping backups of 6+ year old game data for no reason other than possibly appeasing some handful of people who can't stop living in the past?

[Natasha]

You really think Square Enix is keeping backups of 6+ year old game data for no reason other than possibly appeasing some handful of people who can't stop living in the past?

You think everquest, and lineage and runescape did? Yup, I don't know why you find this to be such an impossible feat when its already been done with other mmos. Do we know for sure they have them? Nope, but if they don't SE can tell us that, not players.

[ruzoko]

You really think Square Enix is keeping backups of 6+ year old game data for no reason other than possibly appeasing some handful of people who can't stop living in the past?
You would be surprised for the reasons old data is kept as far as im concerned as long as it doesnt affect those in favor of this new ffxi isnt a reason to be against it so would really be nice for you to X this "handful of people living in the past" all it reminds me of are those on the FFXIV forums blabbing about "go back to ffxi if you want ffxi things in ffxiv"

[nekrothing]

Thanks for hopping over, even though I broke the news a bit early. xD

No worries! The more exposure this gets, the better.

[PlumbGame]

You really think Square Enix is keeping backups of 6+ year old game data for no reason other than possibly appeasing some handful of people who can't stop living in the past?

You really assume people just throw away stuff like this? You seriously think a professional company like SE wouldn't have back ups of EVERYTHING they have? How do you think ports for other devices happen so easily? You think stuff like Chrono Trigger was rebuilt from the ground up? Even more, do you know anything about programming, or any profession at all? Give examples I gave earlier, people don't just call it a day and throw out anything old or not relevant to current projects.

[Elphy]

With the fact that this is far from the first post on this subject, I wonder if the reps have taken this back to the devs and if they even for a moment stopped to consider it or even have their finance ppl take a look to see if it would be feasible.

[Karbuncle]

Hello, this is a thread intended for direct feedback to the devs/community team (as there is no way that I am aware of to send feedback directly) not meant to be a topic of debate.

Too bad :D


I would like to request that, if possible, the devs make available one FFXI server that is set to an earlier patch date. Specifically, the furthest along patch when the level cap was 75 before the addition of the back to back repeatable grounds of valor/fields of valor (as book burns are against the idea of the 'classic' experience).

But for realsies, theres a very low chance, probably the ballpark chance of 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%, that SE will ever release a "Final Fantasy XI Classic!" server. But ya know, probability and such, I'm sure theres a universe out there that has a FFXI classic server officialy sanctioned by SE, but you'll probably have more luck inventing a machine that lets you travel to alternate realities, finding the one with the FFXI Classic server, killing your duplicate and taking over their life, than you do of SE releasing a FFXI Classic server.

However, in the interest of helping you, you can actually find a good deal of "Private" servers that have stuff like this. Swing over to BG and check out their FFXI section, theres a few there that let you do this. some of them are kinda popular too.


Please support and like

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note: Please stop speaking as to the developers limitations as I highly doubt you or anyone in here knows the details of them. If you're wrong about the developers limitations then you are just spreading useless misinformation, if you are right about them then we still end up with nothing because it is unconfirmed and unofficial. Let the devs speak for themselves should they choose to, its not your responsibility as a member of the community to do so.

Ha... hahaha... ha... my lungs are bleeding after this.

[Natasha]

With the fact that this is far from the first post on this subject, I wonder if the reps have taken this back to the devs and if they even for a moment stopped to consider it or even have their finance ppl take a look to see if it would be feasible.

One can only hope we can get a community rep to come in and give a clear yes or no on the issue.


But for realsies, theres a very low chance

Nothing wrong with trying is there?


Needs a picture of a sick kid or sad puppies if you want to go full facebook. Don't forget to like comment and subscribe to my posts!

Likes are a good way to draw attention and thats exactly what I wan't to do, draw a community rep or dev reply.

[ruzoko]

Too bad :D

Needs a picture of a sick kid or sad puppies if you want to go full facebook. Don't forget to like comment and subscribe to my posts!



Ha... hahaha... ha... my lungs are bleeding after this.

Seems players like you are just out to stop any possible chance of things such as a classic server from happening, i mean seriously what do people like you (those who enjoy current ffxi) lose from SE actually creating a server for those who prefer the old classic ffxi? IMO all you types just hop on here just to mock others and dont really post anything worth while.

[Kjara]

I'd agree with this only if no server transfers were allowed to it. It'd be unfair to be able to bring in a character fully grinded through the post-abyssea exploits. All back to level 1, people.

[Yadam]

first i'd like to say, i posted a thread just like this a few weeks back and didn't get any good feedback, but i am excited to see more people agree , i knew there was more people out there who wanted this! this idea is perfect and i support it 100%, we need SE to hear us! idk how to do that exactly but if you create a petition or anything like that, let me know i will support it and my friends will too

[Zarchery]

You really assume people just throw away stuff like this? You seriously think a professional company like SE wouldn't have back ups of EVERYTHING they have? How do you think ports for other devices happen so easily? You think stuff like Chrono Trigger was rebuilt from the ground up? Even more, do you know anything about programming, or any profession at all? Give examples I gave earlier, people don't just call it a day and throw out anything old or not relevant to current projects.

Chrono Trigger was a static RPG. When it was released on SNES, there was one version. FFXI is a dynamic MMORPG with dozens and dozens of versions over 10+ years. My assumption is that server space is finite and they wouldn't hoard every version of every update forever.

[PlumbGame]

Chrono Trigger was a static RPG. When it was released on SNES, there was one version. FFXI is a dynamic MMORPG with dozens and dozens of versions over 10+ years. My assumption is that server space is finite and they wouldn't hoard every version of every update forever.

What? I can drive down to walmart and buy a hard drive to back up everything on my computer, but SE doesn't have the capabilities of doing something similar?

[PlumbGame]

Too bad :D



But for realsies, theres a very low chance, probably the ballpark chance of 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%, that SE will ever release a "Final Fantasy XI Classic!" server. But ya know, probability and such, I'm sure theres a universe out there that has a FFXI classic server officialy sanctioned by SE, but you'll probably have more luck inventing a machine that lets you travel to alternate realities, finding the one with the FFXI Classic server, killing your duplicate and taking over their life, than you do of SE releasing a FFXI Classic server.

However, in the interest of helping you, you can actually find a good deal of "Private" servers that have stuff like this. Swing over to BG and check out their FFXI section, theres a few there that let you do this. some of them are kinda popular too.



Needs a picture of a sick kid or sad puppies if you want to go full facebook. Don't forget to like comment and subscribe to my posts!



Ha... hahaha... ha... my lungs are bleeding after this.

What? Do I just laugh at this post? I think that's the point of a post like this right? Even more so, what was mentioned in this post, anyone with half a brain knows those things you mention aren't even close to the classic experience, let alone fully functional.

[Rubicant82]

What? I can drive down to walmart and buy a hard drive to back up everything on my computer, but SE doesn't have the capabilities of doing something similar?

There are no Walmarts in Japan. But that is not even the point they have this awesome tech district in Toyko called Shinjiku that has aweosme electronics stores, but that is not the point.
Servers don't just operate like your home PC. they are a little bit more touche and temperamental. You can't just go buy a one terabite drive and stick it in. Most servers for things like MMOs are part of huge farms that the parent company uses for their whole company. So it is not just oh this one server is for FFXI. Server is a subjective term for allocated area of space for a program that allows others access.
I mentioned in the other post that if you look hard enough you will find plenty of "classic" privet servers. But SE has been cracking down on them hard lately. Which is absolutely silly if the PS was not charging money. I'm sure there are still some out there somewhere.

[PlumbGame]

There are no Walmarts in Japan. But that is not even the point they have this awesome tech district in Toyko called Shinjiku that has aweosme electronics stores, but that is not the point.
Servers don't just operate like your home PC. they are a little bit more touche and temperamental. You can't just go buy a one terabite drive and stick it in. Most servers for things like MMOs are part of huge farms that the parent company uses for their whole company. So it is not just oh this one server is for FFXI. Server is a subjective term for allocated area of space for a program that allows others access.
I mentioned in the other post that if you look hard enough you will find plenty of "classic" privet servers. But SE has been cracking down on them hard lately. Which is absolutely silly if the PS was not charging money. I'm sure there are still some out there somewhere.

Actually I have looked hard enough and know exactly what you are referring to and have been watching projects like this for years. They are not, and will not be what people are looking for, at least anytime soon. And the stability of them is garbage to say the least, let alone the functionality. This is neither here nor there also considering people on the forums could care less what a third party does, let alone the discussion is prohibited on the forums.

Did you just say I don't get the point? While also commenting that Japan doesn't have a walmart without apparently getting my point? On top of it all, servers DO work in terms you can back stuff up, and transfer data. Apparently SE doesn't know how to do such things though?

[Spectreman]

You really think Square Enix is keeping backups of 6+ year old game data for no reason other than possibly appeasing some handful of people who can't stop living in the past?


These people have this naive feeling that the old Valkrum Dunes and Yhoator Jungle will be filled with noobs again waiting to be MPKed. That they would find constatly people to play with for a whole day in those areas to get 5-10 levels or maybe even delevel at the end of the day.

[Natasha]

There are no Walmarts in Japan. But that is not even the point they have this awesome tech district in Toyko called Shinjiku that has aweosme electronics stores, but that is not the point.
Servers don't just operate like your home PC. they are a little bit more touche and temperamental. You can't just go buy a one terabite drive and stick it in. Most servers for things like MMOs are part of huge farms that the parent company uses for their whole company. So it is not just oh this one server is for FFXI. Server is a subjective term for allocated area of space for a program that allows others access.
I mentioned in the other post that if you look hard enough you will find plenty of "classic" privet servers. But SE has been cracking down on them hard lately. Which is absolutely silly if the PS was not charging money. I'm sure there are still some out there somewhere.

Ease of accomplishing it or not, its regular practice to backup your software even for mmo companies or these kinds of classic servers wouldn't exist anywhere so we cant say they don't have it unless they tell us so.


These people have this naive feeling that the old Valkrum Dunes and Yhoator Jungle will be filled with noobs again waiting to be MPKed. That they would find constatly people to play with for a whole day in those areas to get 5-10 levels or maybe even delevel at the end of the day.

In what way is that your problem? I think the population would be fine but thats irrelevant to you as you don't want the server. If you don't want it, why do you care if people are on it having party troubles? (if your response is that you don't care then why are you here when it doesn't affect you)

[Yadam]

this is a great idea and i don't see why people are arguing it, we don't want their current servers to go away...well we do but we're not asking for that, we're asking to make everyone happy

[mattkoko]

First off, I do want to say that this is a cool idea. I would love to party with people again in the traditional manner. However, I Think it would be risky on their part. A lot of people keep saying, "what if it works, it will be great. People would come back to the game and everything would be awesome." However, no one asks the question of "What if it doesn't work." It would most likely cost them a lot of money. And if it does not work, it could possibly spell the end for ffxi. I would also like to throw out there that they were losing players while the cap was still at 75. Which is why they did a server merge. I believe they did the server merge on the exact update that Abyssea and level 80 cap was introduced.

Now, a little off topic here, but this is directed towards Jblauh. I honestly can't believe you have the nerve to call someone else in these forums an idiot or an asshole when you seem like the biggest one of them all (which also makes you a hypocrite). Let me ask you, does it make you feel like a big man to threaten people left and right to kick there ass over the internet. See there is a name for something like that. It is called "Cyber Bullying." You should look it up. Keep in mind I am not trying to start something with you. You may not even realize what you are doing, but I figured I would point it out.

[Natasha]

First off, I do want to say that this is a cool idea. I would love to party with people again in the traditional manner. However, I Think it would be risky on their part. A lot of people keep saying, "what if it works, it will be great. People would come back to the game and everything would be awesome." However, no one asks the question of "What if it doesn't work." It would most likely cost them a lot of money. And if it does not work, it could possibly spell the end for ffxi. I would also like to throw out there that they were losing players while the cap was still at 75. Which is why they did a server merge. I believe they did the server merge on the exact update that Abyssea and level 80 cap was introduced.

Now, a little off topic here, but this is directed towards Jblauh. I honestly can't believe you have the nerve to call someone else in these forums an idiot or an asshole when you seem like the biggest one of them all (which also makes you a hypocrite). Let me ask you, does it make you feel like a big man to threaten people left and right to kick there ass over the internet. See there is a name for something like that. It is called "Cyber Bullying." You should look it up. Keep in mind I am not trying to start something with you. You may not even realize what you are doing, but I figured I would point it out.

I have considered the impact and I think it would be minimal if done smartly. I've already suggested the idea that, considering pops on current servers are small that they do a merge and use one of the servers people were merged out of to make this classic server. So there would be no added server costs, just the time it takes to set up the server which could vary a bit but I don't think its something that SE can't handle even if the project were a failure which I don't think it will be.

Your second paragraph... not helping, don't pick a fight.

[mattkoko]

You could be right. Like I said, I think it is a cool idea. I could also see the dev team seeing it as risky if it does cost them a lot money. Right now FFXI is bringing them steady income and I can see them not wanting to risk everything when they are still getting something out of it

As far as my second paragraph goes, maybe I got a little out of hand, but I also feel it was important to point out that he is being a cyber bully. Though I don't agree with everything Zachery and Draylo say, I have never seen them threaten to beat the crap out of someone through the computer. I will behave though lol

[nekrothing]

However, I Think it would be risky on their part. A lot of people keep saying, "what if it works, it will be great. People would come back to the game and everything would be awesome." However, no one asks the question of "What if it doesn't work."

Speaking for myself, I haven't ignored that possibility. That's why I think it would be a good idea to gauge the amount of interest first before moving forward, with something along the lines of a community poll that anyone could be a part of. No harm in testing the waters to see how interested people would be in the idea.

Besides, on the other side of the community, plenty of Japanese folks have expressed interest in a classic server. Both on 2ch and on the official forums, it's a topic that comes up almost regularly.

I would think that with the combined amount of interest from both sides of the community, there would be more than enough players to support a single classic server (or possibly more, as in Lineage 2's case).

[mattkoko]

It's no problem. I am not going to claim myself as Mr. Innocent. I have been guilty in the past myself. Not everyone realizes what they are saying or doing until it is pointed out to them. I know I have needed people to point stuff out to me too lol.

[PlumbGame]

The world is full of what ifs. The same could be directed towards what if it does work. What if releasing these servers created so much success SE could develop further FFXI content without any resource constraints. The idea behind this isn't what if it didn't work, but provided success that it did work with our limited knowledge of other companies that have taken advantage of things like this with success, so why not. Of course there is always a realm of possibility that it wouldn't be successful, but we are straying away from that idea because that is a realm of possibility in everything. There is a chance I go outside and get hit by a car at the bottom of my driveway.

[mattkoko]

I understand this. My point is why risk losing money when they are already making a steady income from the current game. I am not trying to read SE's mind or anything. Just making a point. It is impossible to make an informed decision with out weighing both the risks and the benefits. First comes weighing the risks with the benefits, then comes deciding whether it is worth the risk. There is no way you can possibly say this can be a complete success. I already admit I think it is a cool idea. And I am all for making everyone happy. But if it doesn't work and it does fail and it kills FFXI all together, then no one is happy. I can see SE being worried about something like this.

[PlumbGame]

That is true, why risk it. That's why we try and present situations to kind of remove the risk. Almost give an acceptable certainty that there isn't a risk to take. I strongly feel what it comes down to is the costs to maintain such a server. What would SE have to receive in numbers of players to make such server acceptably viable. I don't know how to go about finding that information, specially more considering our server would most likely be hosted in Japan, what the server costs would consist of roughly. Even more so we don't know how much of their staff it would require to maintain this server(s) which could be detrimental to SE's finances from 11. That is why though we present success that these other companies have had, to almost try and remove that uncertainty. Better yet, I wonder what the best route would be to direct internet traffic to 1 designated poll to maybe better have an understanding of how many people would support such an idea that currently don't play 11 at all, because it's too hard to put like a poll lets say on bg and expect that to be accurate, if that makes any sense what I'm getting at.

[mattkoko]

That does make sense. And I agree it would be much more helpful to be able to make a pole outside of these forums considering the players no longer subscribed probably don't even bother with forums anymore. But some sort of advertising would have to be made to get those poles public to those that may be interested that don't have connections with FFXI anymore.

Sorry this post is kind of rushed and would love to touch up on more but I got to get ready to go to work. It's been fun debating though lol

[ruzoko]

first i'd like to say, i posted a thread just like this a few weeks back and didn't get any good feedback, but i am excited to see more people agree , i knew there was more people out there who wanted this! this idea is perfect and i support it 100%, we need SE to hear us! idk how to do that exactly but if you create a petition or anything like that, let me know i will support it and my friends will too

Well we need to keep the thread alive and support coming with the 1 week free play anyone can post on here so try gathering all the support you can xD

[Rubicant82]

The only way that SE would be able to make this sever work is you have 1200 people who wanted to play on it.
So why not make a petition and get people to sign it. Get enough sigs and maybe SE will listen.
As a corporate officer in a company, I can tell you that they will listen with enough voices. Nothing grabs upper managements attention like paperwork, esp one that has a ton of backing. But arguing back and forth on the forums is not going to give you that satisfaction, nor will it give SE the "warm fuzzy" that they want to get something like this up and running.

I miss the old days to a point, because they have great memories, but I think a lot of people who "miss" them are dewling in nostalgia of how things use to be compared to how they are now... and once they realize how bad it use to be under the tyranny that was the 75 capped World of Tanaka, they will run back to the normal servers and the classic server will do exactly what would have happened to the rest of the game if it had not changed; wither and die.
But! All the more power to you in getting something like it off the ground.

[ruzoko]

I understand this. My point is why risk losing money when they are already making a steady income from the current game. I am not trying to read SE's mind or anything. Just making a point. It is impossible to make an informed decision with out weighing both the risks and the benefits. First comes weighing the risks with the benefits, then comes deciding whether it is worth the risk. There is no way you can possibly say this can be a complete success. I already admit I think it is a cool idea. And I am all for making everyone happy. But if it doesn't work and it does fail and it kills FFXI all together, then no one is happy. I can see SE being worried about something like this.

I highly doubt it would kill FFXI, considering the fact this would be 1 server while the other current ones would still be running. If charged the usual monthly fee for this classic server as well and it brought people in the gain would be there and even if its not a gain then the current servers would still bring the profit. The costs to run a server such as this is questionable considering it wouldnt really be any different than the others aside from some changes here and there, however it could take some time to add/remove things as needed to get a classic server within an acceptable range adding all the new beneficial things from current ffxi to old ffxi ex: more storage, the changes to dynamis, HNMs, etc (think id keep few warps and do away with all the others lol)

[ruzoko]

The only way that SE would be able to make this sever work is you have 1200 people who wanted to play on it.
So why not make a petition and get people to sign it. Get enough sigs and maybe SE will listen.
As a corporate officer in a company, I can tell you that they will listen with enough voices. Nothing grabs upper managements attention like paperwork, esp one that has a ton of backing. But arguing back and forth on the forums is not going to give you that satisfaction, nor will it give SE the "warm fuzzy" that they want to get something like this up and running.

I miss the old days to a point, because they have great memories, but I think a lot of people who "miss" them are dewling in nostalgia of how things use to be compared to how they are now... and once they realize how bad it use to be under the tyranny that was the 75 capped World of Tanaka, they will run back to the normal servers and the classic server will do exactly what would have happened to the rest of the game if it had not changed; wither and die.
But! All the more power to you in getting something like it off the ground.

Nah, this "nostalgia" you speak of isnt there ive heard that term over and over and fact is those who actually would play on a server like this and stay are those who KNOW how hard things were in the past hell i spent 5 years to get a relic and when i obtained it, that was the highlight of my ffxi career was my highest achievement. Things then actually gave that feeling as opposed to now when its handed to you easily and even the hardest parts of current ffxi doesnt make it feel much of an achievement, little separates those who are horrid players to, hate the term but "elite" players who know whats what. Even with top tier gear its not hard for anybody to get the exact same thing even leveling isnt an achievement in current ffxi its a quick rush to fully gear up and move on to the next.

[PlumbGame]

The only way that SE would be able to make this sever work is you have 1200 people who wanted to play on it.
So why not make a petition and get people to sign it. Get enough sigs and maybe SE will listen.
As a corporate officer in a company, I can tell you that they will listen with enough voices. Nothing grabs upper managements attention like paperwork, esp one that has a ton of backing. But arguing back and forth on the forums is not going to give you that satisfaction, nor will it give SE the "warm fuzzy" that they want to get something like this up and running.

I miss the old days to a point, because they have great memories, but I think a lot of people who "miss" them are dewling in nostalgia of how things use to be compared to how they are now... and once they realize how bad it use to be under the tyranny that was the 75 capped World of Tanaka, they will run back to the normal servers and the classic server will do exactly what would have happened to the rest of the game if it had not changed; wither and die.
But! All the more power to you in getting something like it off the ground.

I've had a discussion about this with several people. A lot of the old stuff revolves around more-or-less the friendships that were created. If I could play FFXI today with the same group of people without a fear of them quitting every other month. Those feelings would still exist. So I'm kind of 2 sided. I legimitely want a server like this so I can have the grind all over because personally, I love grindy stuff. I also want it because I feel like people would potentially stay around longer if they played here. Giving me that "warm fuzzy" feeling. On the other hand, I would also not want to play on it, because I enjoy the idea of how casual the game has gone. I enjoy the fact that I can basically do all the content that a server like this would offer, except solo. I enjoy that there is the idea that I could play the game only a couple hours a day and still be on top (though I play it all day).

On another note, there is nothing wrong at all with nostalgia. I still enjoy my reese's peanut butter cups, not just because they are good, but because I also enjoyed them when I was a child.

Also, we have shown multiple instances of the possible success of a server like this. Can any of the people who claim a server like this wouldn't work, or would provide any proof to those claims? Or do we just keep defending some fabrication? Not saying proof doesn't exist, just merely pointing out that it gets pretty repetitive providing the same defense over and over when people seem to not look at the information already given.

[Rubicant82]

Also, we have shown multiple instances of the possible success of a server like this. Can any of the people who claim a server like this wouldn't work, or would provide any proof to those claims? Or do we just keep defending some fabrication?

Where have you (or anyone) given proof that this sever would be a success?
You cannot say that another games success at a classic server means this game's would succeed.
Also demanding proof of an opinion from someone is about as worthwhile as using a siv to gather water.
but if you want to use other games as examples here are a few:
Dark Age of Camelot - Classic server was running for about 1 year and then shut down due to low popularity.
World of Warcraft - So concerned about their "classic" zones they tore them apart so that players could have access to flying mounts in them, and update the graphics used.

Now sense I said you can use other games to prove it would work by all rights it makes the examples I have above null as well.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't pursue the idea. But I am saying you are going to need more than a handful of people on a forum talking bout it.
And with supporters calling other people rather inappropriate names in threads, it is not helping.
Hence why I suggested a petition.

[Natasha]

Dark Age of Camelot - Classic server was running for about 1 year and then shut down due to low popularity.
World of Warcraft - So concerned about their "classic" zones they tore them apart so that players could have access to flying mounts in them, and update the graphics used.

Your advice (petition) wouldn't be a bad idea but I chose to do it here for the specific reason that this is considered the "official" place to give feedback for the game. Go ahead and look at SE's website, it tells you to come here for feedback so I did. Your examples however I think are poor as the WoW one is not even remotely close to a 'classic' server and it also was not a failure either. For dark age, I don't recall that ever existing in anything other than free shards.... I mean if it did they must not have gotten the word out at all because litterally on every single game forum i've ever been on do ppl ask for the dark age of camelot experience and Camelot unchained was funded crowd funded to bring the old school dark age of camelot experience back. So, I can't say either one is really much of a strike against this. I also contest that it cant be compared to other games (when the two games are facing similar situations) and in this case I would compare it to everquest as everquest and ffxi are highly similar. Both have similar gameplay, both are very old and have limited dev teams and players and both have been modernized with time yet everquest made classic servers where ffxi has not.

[PlumbGame]

Where have you (or anyone) given proof that this sever would be a success?
You cannot say that another games success at a classic server means this game's would succeed.
Also demanding proof of an opinion from someone is about as worthwhile as using a siv to gather water.
but if you want to use other games as examples here are a few:
Dark Age of Camelot - Classic server was running for about 1 year and then shut down due to low popularity.
World of Warcraft - So concerned about their "classic" zones they tore them apart so that players could have access to flying mounts in them, and update the graphics used.

Now sense I said you can use other games to prove it would work by all rights it makes the examples I have above null as well.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't pursue the idea. But I am saying you are going to need more than a handful of people on a forum talking bout it.
And with supporters calling other people rather inappropriate names in threads, it is not helping.
Hence why I suggested a petition.


Also, we have shown multiple instances of the possible success of a server like this.

Also, I know for a fact you have no idea about WoW, because they have commented on it being something currently not being worked on, and could be a possibility in the future. Actually I know so for a fact since I was one of the most recent people to make a thread about it on the WoW forums.

You also imply your statements meaning everything anyone says is opinions, so everything is moot and why are we communicating in the first place? You also have 1 person calling someone else a rather inappropriate name in a thread, not everyone which your implication implies. Would you like me to show you people that call people who support this idea names (which still doesn't help the cause that this shouldn't happen)? Just arguing towards your irrelevant comments towards the subject now.

[Teraniku]

So basically you all want a lvl 75 capped, pre-Abyssea server to play on? All Right here's a couple of things you need to consider...

1. Leveling. a. population. You realize that if you weren't a PLD, WHM,or RDM and <insert DD or magic DD Here> you really had a hard time to get a party?

2. Dynamis Finding a competent WHM in Dynamis was like searching for the lost Ark of the Covenant. Dynamis was the lynchpin of the endgame @lvl 75, do you really think that you could find about even 20 players that could fit Dynamis into their schedules at the same time on a classic server? and even if you could find those 20, who could guarantee that you'd be able to find at least 1 or 2 competent healers, so the whole thing wouldn't be an even worse death fest than it was.

-Honestly, I miss old school partying in the game, could meet new people and go out and level, It was a great way to meet new people etc. but it's the only thing I miss.

[PlumbGame]

So basically you all want a lvl 75 capped, pre-Abyssea server to play on? All Right here's a couple of things you need to consider...

1. Leveling. a. population. You realize that if you weren't a PLD, WHM,or RDM and <insert DD or magic DD Here> you really had a hard time to get a party?

2. Dynamis Finding a competent WHM in Dynamis was like searching for the lost Ark of the Covenant. Dynamis was the lynchpin of the endgame @lvl 75, do you really think that you could find about even 20 players that could fit Dynamis into their schedules at the same time on a classic server? and even if you could find those 20, who could guarantee that you'd be able to find at least 1 or 2 competent healers, so the whole thing wouldn't be an even worse death fest than it was.

-Honestly, I miss old school partying in the game, could meet new people and go out and level, It was a great way to meet new people etc. but it's the only thing I miss.

PLD, WHM, or RDM? I leveled up several jobs without ever even seeing a PLD. WHM OR RDM, but in some instances I even had a SCH as a healer, a BRD as a healer, even a BLM as a healer. I've seen DRG's do it with pets (this was more of burn parties though that were full of drgs, but just more fuel to the fire that you are incorrect), SMN's sub whm and do it, implementation of DNC, people just do it themselves. Even had parties where everyone was /nin and would just try to burn stuff before you couldn't keep shadows up.

You also imply that dynamis was an all day event. I bet you spend more time spamming delves than you do in dyna (even more so given it was what, every 3 days that you could go in for a couple of hours).

[nekrothing]

1. Leveling. a. population. You realize that if you weren't a PLD, WHM,or RDM and <insert DD or magic DD Here> you really had a hard time to get a party?

Rarely did I ever have difficulty getting a party, and Dragoon was the first job I took to 75. If you weren't getting invites, you should have taken the initiative to form your own groups. That's what I did, and I got to 75 relatively easily. This was on top of my 40 hour work schedule.


2. Dynamis Finding a competent WHM in Dynamis was like searching for the lost Ark of the Covenant. Dynamis was the lynchpin of the endgame @lvl 75, do you really think that you could find about even 20 players that could fit Dynamis into their schedules at the same time on a classic server? and even if you could find those 20, who could guarantee that you'd be able to find at least 1 or 2 competent healers, so the whole thing wouldn't be an even worse death fest than it was.

My linkshell at the time specialized in Sky/Sea/Dynamis/Limbus. Not having enough people was never an issue, because everyone who had joined the shell was aware of the times we did those events. That's why they joined in the first place, because it worked well with their schedules. We never had any issues clearing content either.

[Natasha]

Removed because of trolling.

[Yadam]

this is a great idea and i'm going to get my old ffxi buddies to sign this petition!

[Makenshi]

And what about all the clear improvements that have been made? like checking prices of the items you want to sell on the AH? things like home points added on maps, trusts, new jobs, gearswap macros, menu improvements, getting around, increased inventory size, tied AH, some HMN's are now pops and more i expect i have forgotten.

There are many things i miss about the old FF11, but in many ways it always was a bit backwards and had a lot of un-needed fat. And if this happened i really doubt you would get as many people as you think you will.

[Bamph]

I just realized... You would need to make sure WotG isn't included, since its updates bring you smack dab into the middle of the level cap increase (the reward earring is lvl 90).

[Natasha]

I just realized... You would need to make sure WotG isn't included, since its updates bring you smack dab into the middle of the level cap increase (the reward earring is lvl 90).

As stated originally, the point I would like the server locked at would be the last patch before abyssea (and/or before fields of valor/grounds of valor was repeatable back to back, I remember this was added right around the same time but it may have been slightly before abyssea and it needs to not be on the server). So everything up to that point is ok, sadly wings would just have to be in with an incomplete storyline unless extra work was to be put in to add it back but scaled down to a lvl 75 which I am not willing to ask for at the moment and push my luck.


And what about all the clear improvements that have been made? like checking prices of the items you want to sell on the AH? things like home points added on maps, trusts, new jobs, gearswap macros, menu improvements, getting around, increased inventory size, tied AH, some HMN's are now pops and more i expect i have forgotten.

There are many things i miss about the old FF11, but in many ways it always was a bit backwards and had a lot of un-needed fat. And if this happened i really doubt you would get as many people as you think you will.

Well for one, I imagine a lot of people who want this kind of server haven't even stuck around to notice your improvements. I personally don't consider most of them improvements, such as your quick travel. Sure, for you maybe you don't care about it at this point but I never hated the travel and actually enjoyed it from time to time. Right now the game suffers the same problem ffxiv does, you just teleport everywhere and it removes the worldliness of the game. To explain, I felt a lot of the improvements broke immersion and turned ffxi from a fantasy world into an 'arcade' if you will (you just pick your activity shoot there and jump to the next activity) which is not what I look for in my rpgs. There are other kinds of games that do that kind of thing better imo, I come to rpgs to get into their worlds.

[Makenshi]

WOTG wasnt finished when aby came along? O_O

[PlumbGame]

I agree there has been some quality of life improvements to the game which have definitely been welcomed, but nothing that would be detrimental for me in terms of playing on a classic server.

[Alhanelem]

you're just experiencing nostalgia fever. Even with such a server, you'll go back and play it and discover its just not the same as when you did it all the first time.

The only thing I want from 2009 or earlier is the server player counts. I don't want to go back to waiting hours for a 6 man party to gain EXP etc while idling in town most of the time. At least now if I want to do something I can usually just go do it.

The reasons that put me off from playing now are not the content design or anything, but rather simply the fact that they don't seem to be willing to do certain things to improve and polish the game systems, and when they do try to do something, they keep going about it the wrong way. That plus the 23458345 "we have no plans to do this" posts.

I'm not really even sure if this suggestion is even possible. It assumes that they still have the game code/assets/data from the game in a state from several years ago. I actually highly doubt they've retained that.


Well for one, I imagine a lot of people who want this kind of server haven't even stuck around to notice your improvements. I personally don't consider most of them improvements, such as your quick travel. Sure, for you maybe you don't care about it at this point but I never hated the travel and actually enjoyed it from time to timeThere are tons of improvements. Things like showing the price history when you're listing items makes a huge difference and saves time that I could be spending killing evil monsters and doing quests etc. And having more travel options doesn't prevent you from traveling the old fashioned way if you want.

Also, if the people who want this kind of server haven't stuck around to notice these improvements, that raises an important question: Why didn't they stick around? If they left before all this new stuff, then there were problems with the game, which you want to go back to, that made them leave. I have thousands and thousands of hours of game play time. a HUGE chunk of it was spent doing nothing but waiting. That combined with people hating the jobs I enjoyed playing made me almost quit several times, long before abyssea, WOTG or Audolin ever came along.

The reason there are fewer players around now really just boils down to the fact that this is a really old game at this point. Many people have had their fun, came and gone. In many cases, it's the friendships made that keep the current people playing, they're here to socialize. It really has little to do with how much "better" or "worse" you feel the game has become in the last several years. Honestly, I think there are a lot of good things about the game right now, the only reason I've not held a continuous subscription recently is ismply because after 10+ years, I have a ton of games I want to play and I just moved on. It's not because i don't like the game now or liked it more years ago.

[nekrothing]

you're just experiencing nostalgia fever. Even with such a server, you'll go back and play it and discover its just not the same as when you did it all the first time.

Your line of reasoning is based on what, exactly?

"Nostalgia" is an excuse that gets thrown around commonly, but the only ones being influenced by "nostalgia" are the ones exaggerating about how awful the game used to be with hyperbole.


I don't want to go back to waiting hours for a 6 man party to gain EXP etc while idling in town most of the time. At least now if I want to do something I can usually just go do it.

Okay...? Then you don't have to. We're not asking for every server to be reverted back to the way they were. We're asking for the inclusion of a single classic server for those that want it.

If you're having fun with the way the game currently plays, then kudos. Enjoy the main servers. But why deny a classic server for those that prefer the way the game used to be played, when it's not going to impede your enjoyment of the game at all?

Look at the success of the Lineage 2 classic servers. They're currently the most populated servers in the game, and it's helped improve Lineage 2's overall development and longevity. What if this game was able to share that same success?


Also, if the people who want this kind of server haven't stuck around to notice these improvements, that raises an important question: Why didn't they stick around?

I can only speak for myself, but I disagreed with the direction the game was heading in. I played until Abyssea was released, and then stopped. Up until that point, I was enjoying myself. I'm pretty sure the others feel the same way, but I won't speak on their behalf.

I can only say that before Abyssea came along, this game's population was at its highest point, and then it began to decline after it was released.

[PlumbGame]

you're just experiencing nostalgia fever. Even with such a server, you'll go back and play it and discover its just not the same as when you did it all the first time.

The only thing I want from 2009 or earlier is the server player counts. I don't want to go back to waiting hours for a 6 man party to gain EXP etc while idling in town most of the time. At least now if I want to do something I can usually just go do it.

The reasons that put me off from playing now are not the content design or anything, but rather simply the fact that they don't seem to be willing to do certain things to improve and polish the game systems, and when they do try to do something, they keep going about it the wrong way. That plus the 23458345 "we have no plans to do this" posts.

I'm not really even sure if this suggestion is even possible. It assumes that they still have the game code/assets/data from the game in a state from several years ago. I actually highly doubt they've retained that.

There are tons of improvements. Things like showing the price history when you're listing items makes a huge difference and saves time that I could be spending killing evil monsters and doing quests etc. And having more travel options doesn't prevent you from traveling the old fashioned way if you want.

Also, if the people who want this kind of server haven't stuck around to notice these improvements, that raises an important question: Why didn't they stick around? If they left before all this new stuff, then there were problems with the game, which you want to go back to, that made them leave. I have thousands and thousands of hours of game play time. a HUGE chunk of it was spent doing nothing but waiting. That combined with people hating the jobs I enjoyed playing made me almost quit several times, long before abyssea, WOTG or Audolin ever came along.

The reason there are fewer players around now really just boils down to the fact that this is a really old game at this point. Many people have had their fun, came and gone. In many cases, it's the friendships made that keep the current people playing, they're here to socialize. It really has little to do with how much "better" or "worse" you feel the game has become in the last several years. Honestly, I think there are a lot of good things about the game right now, the only reason I've not held a continuous subscription recently is ismply because after 10+ years, I have a ton of games I want to play and I just moved on. It's not because i don't like the game now or liked it more years ago.

Yeah you are right. Thank you for telling us how we feel. Without you I have no idea how my life would go on.

Gullibleness aside really assuming you think they haven't backed up anything let alone being able to recreate anything. You completely misinterpreted the said person you quoted. They said that comment to imply that a lot of players that want the classic experience haven't experienced any of the new quality of life improvements making it a moot point for someone wanting to play this era.

You also try to validate your argument by implying that all quality of life changes that currently exist in the game have been there since said era that players want. When that is completely fabricated and not true at all. Better yet, you don't even know what said problems are that you are referring to. Said quality of life improvements COULD be the reason players quit.

To your last paragraph, that is one reason these servers could prove successful, and why many of the people for them have posted examples of other companies doing such things and them being successful, so people can re-experience the game at a point they felt it wasn't too "old" or "boring".

You yourself admit to not even having an active subscription at this time, also negating any real opinion you have since I can just assume you have no idea what you are saying about current FFXI. I also do know you have moved on because I have had the pleasure of fixing your mistakes or misinformation and just general fail on FFXIV.

[Alhanelem]

Okay...? Then you don't have to. We're not asking for every server to be reverted back to the way they were.Unless everyone got on board with it, you'd have exactly the same problem that I had back in the day.

There just aren't enough like minded people to populate a server and not have the problem of waiting too long to be able to do something.


You also try to validate your argument by implying that all quality of life changes that currently exist in the game have been there since said era that players want. When that is completely fabricated and not true at all.That's... not what I said at all? In fact, I was quite sure i said the exact opposite? that many QOL changes have been introduced since said era, not that they already existed before the end of it?


You yourself admit to not even having an active subscription at this time, also negating any real opinion you have since I can just assume you have no idea what you are saying about current FFXI.Way to make assumptions and find excuses to invalidate my opinions. My opinions are my opinions, you can't just say something and invalidate them.

I played almost continuously up til just before the release of audolin. Even after audolin I've been playing on and off. CURRENTLY AT THIS PRESENT MOMENT i am not subscribed, but I am playing the free week and am playing as I write this.

Why are you so anxious to tear apart anyone who doesn't agree with the premise of the thread? How about you just let me and anyone else who might be in my position have their opinion and agree to disagree? How about base your criticisms on real issues rather than your judgement of my playtime?



To your last paragraph, that is one reason these servers could prove successful,My las paragraph describes why they probably wouldn't be successful- Because the reasons that people are playing or not playing right now wouldn't be fixed by sending the game through a time machine.


Gullibleness aside really assuming you think they haven't backed up anything let alone being able to recreate anything.I wouldn't be so sure about this. Even in FFXIV they apparently don't keep some of their data very long (when "Savage" version of Second Coil of Bahamut was released, people asked if they'd do it for the first one and the Producer said that he wasn't sure if they still had the original data from when coil was being developed). Even if they did, it would be no simple matter to introduce a server like this. It would take development resources and would slow down progress on updates for the current game. You're basically asking them to have two development branches- and unless the "old server" branch gets some kind of updates and new content, you're going to get bored with it eventually. So lets say they do make new content for the old version- now we have fewer resources spread across two development branches. I really don't see how this is feasable, even if playing devil's advocate and regarding this idea as more popular than I think it is.

I don't feel like this idea is realistically doable by the development team, even if I did want it. It would come at the expense of all the people currently playing the current game.

[PlumbGame]

Unless everyone got on board with it, you'd have exactly the same problem that I had back in the day.

There just aren't enough like minded people to populate a server and not have the problem of waiting too long to be able to do something.

That's... not what I said at all? In fact, I was quite sure i said the exact opposite? that many QOL changes have been introduced since said era, not that they already existed before the end of it?

Way to make assumptions and find excuses to invalidate my opinions. My opinions are my opinions, you can't just say something and invalidate them.

I played almost continuously up til just before the release of audolin. Even after audolin I've been playing on and off. CURRENTLY AT THIS PRESENT MOMENT i am not subscribed, but I am playing the free week and am playing as I write this.

Why are you so anxious to tear apart anyone who doesn't agree with the premise of the thread? How about you just let me and anyone else who might be in my position have their opinion and agree to disagree?

My las paragraph describes why they probably wouldn't be successful- Because the reasons that people are playing or not playing right now wouldn't be fixed by sending the game through a time machine.

Just like to make sure people aren't swayed based off misinformation if someone came in here maybe wondering if this was a good or bad idea and where people stand. I've had lovely discussions with many people for and against. I would expect people to point out where I'm wrong also, just like people have, and I have to others responses, and start a debate on an issue that could be presented as a valid issue with these server, and some have been brought up. Your comments have already been brought up not only several times, but you are just plainly either misinformed, or giving misinformation. I'm a bit biased towards your comments though because I have seen you here and there in both games and the crap you post, (and even had to deal with personal attacks from you in tells back in the days when I said you were wrong in a shout about the pvp info you were preaching) so although my post wasn't intended to be blunt except the very last sentence, I can see how it would come off that way.

[Alhanelem]

Your comments have already been brought up not only several times, but you are just plainly either misinformed, or giving misinformation.I'm not "misinformed," nor am I giving misinformation. I am sharing my opinion on a forum topic, nothing more.

You aren't even on my server, I don't know who you are, and I've never made personal attacks against you (nor have I ever intentionally made personal attacks on anyone in general- I'm very defensive [a personality flaw I wholly admit to] and pretty much every negative thing ive ever said about anyone has been a defensive reaction to an attack against me)

So how about we just drop the personal biases for one moment and try treating each other respectfully? Your previous post (above this one you made) came off as extremely condecending.


I can only say that before Abyssea came along, this game's population was at its highest point, and then it began to decline after it was released. FFXI's population peak was a few years after it's release. Not right before abyssea by a long shot. Just like any game, the population will gradually decline over time as fewer new players come in (because they're off playing whatver latest new game comes along). No MMO or other is excempt from this.

[nekrothing]

Unless everyone got on board with it, you'd have exactly the same problem that I had back in the day.

There just aren't enough like minded people to populate a server and not have the problem of waiting too long to be able to do something.

Again I'll ask... your line of reasoning is based on what, exactly? Rather than basing your reasoning on evidence or research, your feelings are dictating your assumptions. I've already mentioned this before, but more people are in favor of the idea than against it, both in this thread and the other one.

[PlumbGame]

I'm not "misinformed," nor am I giving misinformation.

You aren't even on my server, I don't know who you are, and I've never made personal attacks against you (nor have I ever intentionally made personal attacks on anyone in general- I'm very defensive [a personality flaw I wholly admit to] and pretty much every negative thing ive ever said about anyone has been a defensive reaction to an attack against me)

So how about we just drop the personal biases for one moment and try treating each other respectfully?

Just cause my character name is Dravidian here, doesn't mean it is that in FFXIV. I'm not personally attacking you, I'm pointing out that I quote people like you to fix any misinformation being present. You seem to be taking it personal like you would think everyone just agrees with you or no one would ever point out you are wrong. Just because I'm using other stuff to validate you being wrong, doesn't mean I don't respect you. It's part of removing any credibility.

[Alhanelem]

I've already mentioned this before, but more people are in favor of the idea than against it, both in this thread and the other one. You're making just as many assumptions. Only a handful of people that play the game read and post on the forums. Just because some people post in your thread and like your idea does not mean everyone does. You also really can't speak for anyone who hasn't played the game in years as they might not read this forum either, nor can they post on it to say whether or not they want it.


I'm pointing out that I quote people like you to fix any misinformation being present.It only seems to be misinformation if it doesn't paint your idea in the brightest light. I'm not saying this to be mean, but that's the impression I get based on how passionately you react to criticism of the idea.

Please correct my "misinformation" when you've conducted an extensive scientific survey consisting of a meaningful percentage of the current playerbase. Until then you can't just discredit me by saying I'm relying on assumptions, because you don't have a lot of data yet you act like you have all the information.

I do appriciate you being more respectful. Please understand that while I may not be backing your idea I do not intend any hostility and I do respect your position even if I don't agree.

[PlumbGame]

You're making just as many assumptions. Only a handful of people that play the game read and post on the forums. Just because some people post in your thread and like your idea does not mean everyone does. You also really can't speak for anyone who hasn't played the game in years as they might not read this forum either, nor can they post on it to say whether or not they want it.

It only seems to be misinformation if it doesn't paint your idea in the brightest light. I'm not saying this to be mean, but that's the impression I get based on how passionately you react to criticism of the idea.

Please correct my "misinformation" when you've conducted an extensive scientific survey consisting of a meaningful percentage of the current playerbase. Until then you can't just discredit me by saying I'm relying on assumptions, because you don't have a lot of data yet you act like you have all the information.

I do appriciate you being more respectful. Please understand that while I may not be backing your idea I do not intend any hostility and I do respect your position even if I don't agree.

I can correct you right here. You obviously haven't even read the thread, or you would know what the person you quoted was even referring to. His response was referring to if we based what the community wanted off of the forums, it would even show the majority viewing these threads wants one. That was what his comment was towards. It has already been brought up several times that the forums in no way shape or form represents the current player base, past player base, or future player base, but someone else jumps in and says "no one wants it", we gave him an example of apparently people do.

P.S. there is 2 threads for this for some reason, and it makes certain things that have been discussed may be in the other thread. That being said, I'm sure they are in both considering the repetitiveness of the same thing I keep saying over and over in both threads lol.

[Draylo]

Man you are just delusional... Look at how many likes the OP has, 9 lol. You are acting like the whole world is going to back you up. You won't have the population to even dream of doing this, which is why SE has not done it and will not. I remember even in the peak of this games life, spamming /sea all 55-58 BRD, /sea all 55-58 NIN, /sea all 55-58 PLD for a very long time trying to make a party on my undesired job. It's incredibly unlikely that type of game will succeed in today's gaming world. I loved the old FFXI outside of some portions of it, and I still love it. The game evolved and its time to move on. There are still many of the same aspects here that the old FFXI had. I always am baffled when these nostalgia goggles come into these threads or complain how their beloved FFXI is dead when some of the same systems are in place in the current game. People just don't realize it won't be the same as when you were younger, things change. The game is still alive, appreciate it while it is and realize it will keep changing.

[PlumbGame]

Man you are just delusional... Look at how many likes the OP has, 9 lol. You are acting like the whole world is going to back you up. You won't have the population to even dream of doing this, which is why SE has not done it and will not. I remember even in the peak of this games life, spamming /sea all 55-58 BRD, /sea all 55-58 NIN, /sea all 55-58 PLD for a very long time trying to make a party on my undesired job. It's incredibly unlikely that type of game will succeed in today's gaming world. I loved the old FFXI outside of some portions of it, and I still love it. The game evolved and its time to move on. There are still many of the same aspects here that the old FFXI had. I always am baffled when these nostalgia goggles come into these threads or complain how their beloved FFXI is dead when some of the same systems are in place in the current game. People just don't realize it won't be the same as when you were younger, things change. The game is still alive, appreciate it while it is and realize it will keep changing.

Please at least read before you tell someone they are delusional so you at least have some sort of understanding what they are referring to.

[Alhanelem]

I can correct you right here. You obviously haven't even read the thread, or you would know what the person you quoted was even referring to. His response was referring to if we based what the community wanted off of the forums, it would even show the majority viewing these threads wants one. That was what his comment was towards. It has already been brought up several times that the forums in no way shape or form represents the current player base, past player base, or future player base, but someone else jumps in and says "no one wants it", we gave him an example of apparently people do.

P.S. there is 2 threads for this for some reason, and it makes certain things that have been discussed may be in the other thread. That being said, I'm sure they are in both considering the repetitiveness of the same thing I keep saying over and over in both threads lol.
I have read the post, and a couple things are bugging me about it.

1) You have 9 likes. The other thread has 6. That doesn't seem like a significant backing even by this forum's community. I've seen many complaint/idea threads with far more. I think you are overestimating the support for this based on that alone.

2) You ask people not to consider the development implications. That's like asking mechanical engineers not to consider the amount of time it will take them to reintroduce an old car when they're trying to design and develop new ones. Stuff like this takes time- You can fuss over how much or how little you want, but it still takes some amount of time. It's also an ongoing thing. The "classic server" wills till need to be maintained and recieve updates if you expect people to keep playing on it- Yet you're asking people to ignore these factors.

[PlumbGame]

Haven't asked anyone to ignore them. It also doesn't matter what we point out and don't. Doesn't change the facts, no matter how you view it. Better yet, I would just watch the poll. Again, no one said that the likes were indications of player base. We simply stated that people obviously do want it, to counter argue people who say that no one does, and even the little forum members there are want it over the people who don't. No comprehend?

[Draylo]

It doesn't matter if "people obviously do want it" when those people are 9~15 in number. You need a lot more than that to make any kind of change, that is what you don't seem to realize? I bet more people would prefer the current FFXI than going back, how do I know? Because more people play this than any private server. They may claim to want the old days back, but I bet if it was back they would quit within a month or they would be like "eh I moved on, it would be cool though!"

[Alhanelem]

Disclaimer: Not intending to be mean here, but this bears pointing out.


Have no asked anyone to ignore them.


Please stop speaking as to the developers limitations as I highly doubt you or anyone in here knows the details of them.
What?


We simply stated that people obviously do want it, to counter argue people who say that no one does,Who is "We?" Without speicfically listing who you feel you are representing, this is a weasel word- something you say to bring weight to an argument but which has no meaning without context. Secondly, I don't think anyone here is suggesting that "no one" wants this. I'm sure there are people that do. Otherwise you would have gotten no likes and no comments in support of your idea. I'm sure some people do want this. I'm just not convinced that there is enough support to warrant taking development time off new content for the game in order to make it happen.

If we could just wave a magic wand and say "here's your classic server, enjoy!", I'd be all for that. You and all the people thinking the same thing as you would be able to rejoyce and the game would not be negatively impacted in any way. But since there are resources required, I have to consider them.

[PlumbGame]

It doesn't matter if "people obviously do want it" when those people are 9~15 in number. You need a lot more than that to make any kind of change, that is what you don't seem to realize? I bet more people would prefer the current FFXI than going back, how do I know? Because more people play this than any private server. They may claim to want the old days back, but I bet if it was back they would quit within a month or they would be like "eh I moved on, it would be cool though!"

no one
pronoun
pronoun: no one; pronoun: noone

no person; not a single person.

So yes, actually it does matter when someone claims that no one wants something.

[PlumbGame]

Disclaimer: Not intending to be mean here, but this bears pointing out.




What?

Who is "We?" Without speicfically listing who you feel you are representing, this is a weasel word- something you say to bring weight to an argument but which has no meaning without context. Secondly, I don't think anyone here is suggesting that "no one" wants this. I'm sure there are people that do. Otherwise you would have gotten no likes and no comments in support of your idea. I'm sure some people do want this. I'm just not convinced that there is enough support to warrant taking development time off new content for the game in order to make it happen.

You are joking when you say 'we' right? Did you even read the title of the thread?

[Draylo]

So you took a post very literally. It was meant as more people would be opposed to this idea than in support of. It seems very evident too as you would think you would have much more support.

[nekrothing]

You're making just as many assumptions.

What assumptions? There are more people in both this thread and the other one that are in favor of the idea than against it, which is self-evident. I'm referring to people who have actually made posts in either thread. However, only a small portion of the community actually visits these forums, but apparently you feel comfortable with speaking on behalf of the players that don't.

Why are you under the impression that they share your opinion?

[Alhanelem]

You are joking when you say 'we' right? Did you even read the title of the thread?
If the only response you can make is "did you read", then there's little point in continuing this. Yes, I did read. the post stands. The title of the thread is "Classic Server." It's stated at the top of every page of the thread. I had to click on the title to get here. Of course I read it. If you can't address the comment then don't reply to it. "Did you read?" is nothing more than a copout.

I'm just wondeirng who this "We" is- You act as though you are representing some number of people but it's not really clear who these people are, and whether they are actually wanting you to represent them or not.

[PlumbGame]

So you took a post very literally. It was meant as more people would be opposed to this idea than in support of. It seems very evident too as you would think you would have much more support.

When you argue based off "literals" and "absolutes", yes, I will take the discussion seriously. Even more so because it specifically said "no one". Don't get mad when I point out it's wrong.

[Alhanelem]

When you argue based off "literals" and "absolutes", yes, I will take the discussion seriously. Even more so because it specifically said "no one". Don't get mad when I point out it's wrong.
Again, I don't really see "No one" supporting the idea. It clearly has more than just you here wanting it, or there wouldn't have been a different thread before yours. That being said, I don't think the idea is as popular as you think it is. That's purely an eyeball observation of course, not a statistical analysis.

I'm off to bed, but I"ll be curious to see what happens in the interim.

[PlumbGame]

If the only response you can make is "did you read", then there's little point in continuing this. Yes, I did read. the post stands. The title of the thread is "Classic Server." It's stated at the top of every page of the thread. I had to click on the title to get here. Of course I read it. If you can't address the comment then don't reply to it. "Did you read?" is nothing more than a copout.

A copout you might think. I'm trying to point out how illiterate you are. You just keep making it easier. Who asks who the "we" I'm referring to in this thread would be? You are almost blatantly just trying to find other crap to argue. Even more so, you seem to be trying to derail this thread now in petty arguments not even relevant to the OP, which I would prefer not considering it can tend to lock threads, but good luck to you. I'll be done until you post any more relevance.

[Yadam]

this idea is indeed popular, we just need to spread the word to all our old ffxi buddies who don't frequent these threads anymore.

[FrankReynolds]

I would support this just to make the "I wish the game was back at 75" crowd go away. Every time I hear someone say how awesome it was leveling back at 75 and camping HNMs, I want to vomit. Maybe they could do this on the test server, since they don't seem to use it for testing anymore.

[Draylo]

I know, they are ridiculous. If you look at the facebook page (which I don't recommend) for FFXI you can see them all gathering and spouting their nonsense. "I hated how the game got so easy to lvl!!!" "I hate how things are so easy now!!" they have no idea that nobody liked ridiculous amounts of exp required to level or any of the old stuff, it was all nostalgia.

[PlumbGame]

I'd like to see your proof for your claims. Considering the peak of FFXI was during the things you claim everyone supposedly hates. I think it is more probable than not you are wrong.

[Natasha]

I'd like to see your proof for your claims. Considering the peak of FFXI was during the things you claim everyone supposedly hates. I think it is more probable than not you are wrong.

This, personally I liked it better that way and from my experience tossing around the idea in the last 2 days a lot of people did. At the moment the main reason we arent seeing support is people don't BELIEVE it can happen so they don't support it. We absolutely need a response from a community rep stating if this is possible with enough support. If the devs said it was possible you would easily see a huge influx of support.

[Alhanelem]

I'd like to see your proof for your claims. Considering the peak of FFXI was during the things you claim everyone supposedly hates. I think it is more probable than not you are wrong.
Your counter-claim is just as dubious as his claim. Neither of you have data, and you're just saying he's probably wrong. This sounds to me more like "I want you to be wrong and I think you're wrong because it goes against what I want."

Personally, I do know some people who enjoyed the old-school leveling scheme, but not because of the game experience itself- They enjoyed chatting with friends for hours. The EXP-gaining process was just what they happened to be doing while chit chatting. I don't know anyone that specifically liked the EXP-farming process itself- They liked the socializing that went with it. That, to me, speaks of a boring game that is made less boring by chatting- not a game that's lots of fun in and of itself. The problem with this is we could all be playing UNO on facebook and chatting and getting the same level of enjoyment, because the game itself isn't what they're having fun with. From a gameplay standpoint, the endgame content is generally more fun than the leveling process, in my humble opinion.

Honestly though, I think you're just defending your suggestion to the death regardless of what anyone thinks of it. You're just going around calling people wrong or likely to be wrong without anything backing up your assertions. The reason I can recognize this is i myself have been guilty of it on several occasions- I'm pretty (in)famous on this board for defending an unpopular viewpoint on certain issues here. Please, by all means, give us something tangible to show the support for your suggestion- because I'm honestly not seeing it. 80% of this thread is you replying to me or someone else saying they're wrong because they don't agree with you.

I could get behind this idea if the devs responded to this by saying they could reasonably do it without compromising the development of version updates to the main game. But until they weigh in on this, I'm not convinced it can be done without a significant impact on the main game.

[Natasha]

Your counter-claim is just as dubious as his claim. Neither of you have data, and you're just saying he's probably wrong. This sounds to me more like "I want you to be wrong and I think you're wrong because it goes against what I want."

Personally, I do know some people who enjoyed the old-school leveling scheme, but not because of the game experience itself- They enjoyed chatting with friends for hours. The EXP-gaining process was just what they happened to be doing while chit chatting. I don't know anyone that specifically liked the EXP-farming process itself- They liked the socializing that went with it. That, to me, speaks of a boring game that is made less boring by chatting- not a game that's lots of fun in and of itself. The problem with this is we could all be playing UNO on facebook and chatting and getting the same level of enjoyment, because the game itself isn't what they're having fun with. From a gameplay standpoint, the endgame content is generally more fun than the leveling process, in my humble opinion.

Honestly though, I think you're just defending your suggestion to the death regardless of what anyone thinks of it. You're just going around calling people wrong or likely to be wrong without anything backing up your assertions. The reason I can recognize this is i myself have been guilty of it on several occasions- I'm pretty (in)famous on this board for defending an unpopular viewpoint on certain issues here. Please, by all means, give us something tangible to show the support for your suggestion- because I'm honestly not seeing it. 80% of this thread is you replying to me or someone else saying they're wrong because they don't agree with you.

I could get behind this idea if the devs responded to this by saying they could reasonably do it without compromising the development of version updates to the main game. But until they weigh in on this, I'm not convinced it can be done without a significant impact on the main game.

He doesn't have to prove anything Draylo says is wrong anyway, he has no info and the request isn't to him. If people want it, they should support it, if they don't then theres no reason for them to even be in here. Only the devs need be convinced people are interested in it, and only the devs can decide if it is an economically sound proposition for them.

[ruzoko]

I know, they are ridiculous. If you look at the facebook page (which I don't recommend) for FFXI you can see them all gathering and spouting their nonsense. "I hated how the game got so easy to lvl!!!" "I hate how things are so easy now!!" they have no idea that nobody liked ridiculous amounts of exp required to level or any of the old stuff, it was all nostalgia.

Obviously it was not ridiculous if people are repeating it over and over, and whats even more annoying is how much against it those who hate old FFXI are, who cares if a server is made for those of us who enjoy it? As many of you people say, dont like it, then don't play it, this back and forth of nostalgia and go back to FFXI (on FFXIV forums for those wanting it to have some FFXI in it) the arguments against even a classic server for people is ridiculous. If all you people are going to complain at those who preferred the old ways why not just let us have our server and be done with it?
And last its obvious people liked the old ways otherwise we wouldn't see it pop up many times over about the old days, even I prefer the old ways to this "Easy" setting its on LS = worthless, socializing = not needed, gear = clones everywhere now, its basically a cheap version of FFXIV now and its not the game it once was. The 893483843 warps are annoying, makes teles and warp spells pointless (some are handy will admit) but to the extent its gone is just people being lazy.

[ruzoko]

And @ Draylo and Alhanelem obviously you both aren't seeing the petition, just because people do not hitting a "Like" button on here does not mean it isn't supported, petition barely created and has more than triple the support than this thread. Why? 1st. Most don't bother with these forums or even really know what goes on in them (I didn't for quite a long while) and 2nd. Most who do not play FFXI currently likely do not know they can get on these forums free this week so they dont bother to check it.

[detlef]

And @ Draylo and Alhanelem obviously you both aren't seeing the petition, just because people do not hitting a "Like" button on here does not mean it isn't supported, petition barely created and has more than triple the support than this thread. Why? 1st. Most don't bother with these forums or even really know what goes on in them (I didn't for quite a long while) and 2nd. Most who do not play FFXI currently likely do not know they can get on these forums free this week so they dont bother to check it.Ray Rice signed the petition so it's definitely legit.

[ruzoko]

Legit enough despite the few trolls around, so show support or be on your way thank you.

[Stompa]

<I need some time to put together my answer.> :P

But it seems that all-or-nothing is the going meme here. People saying it was all horrible back then, or all great, or whatever. The truth is more subtle and common-sense - there have been some great improvements to the game since 2008~ and also some detrimental changes. And those changes are appreciated differently by different players. It is very complex and so the universal "it is better" or "it is worse" is not useful, imho. Some things are better, some are worse.

I personally liked the old party xp system, and I dislike the XP Avalanche afk thing in Aby Sandsweepers, especially since the Rambo BLM updates. Old xp parties were more social and involved more individual skill plus effort. To me that made them more fun than just leeching and watching numbers go up.

I liked level 75 player and 75 gear cap. It was simpler and you could use stuff you farmed years ago. I don't like my gear being re-outdated all the time.

So those are the things I miss. I don't miss running really slowly lol. I don't miss waiting for airships. And I love the HP nexus warp system. I also like the level synch and gear scaling systems a lot. So I would play on a level 75 server for sure, but only if it wasn't 100% retro timewarp, and included *some* of the positive changes (such as movement speed and HP nexus etc.) that have been added since 2008~.

But I also see that it is an unlikely thing to happen, because of the cost/return axis, and SE money being put into new content rather than old, which I can't say is a bad thing.

[Alhanelem]

He doesn't have to prove anything Draylo says is wrong anyway, he has no info and the request isn't to him.The thing is, Plumb doesn't either. He's just declaring people to be wrong with no basis.


And @ Draylo and Alhanelem obviously you both aren't seeing the petition, just because people do not hitting a "Like" button on here does not mean it isn't supported, petition barely created and has more than triple the support than this thread.Internet petitions are highly abuseable and I put no stake in them whatsoever. Since posting here requires a game account and you have to buy more copies of the game to have more accounts, vote padding is far less likely. Internet Petitions are also not scientific and do not prove anything.

Again, I'm not against the concept of the idea itself, but rather i object to the potential disruption it would cause to current players enjoying the current game in its current state. I also highly doubt that even the people on this petition supporting the idea would come back for very long if the "old" server didn't get content updates (if it did, it would eventually return to where we are now and render the whole thing pointless)- and if it got content updates, that would hamper the progress of the main game. So the only way this can happen is if the dev team is suddenly given more resources to work with than they have currently. Even if you have 1000 people who say will definitely play on a retro server, they may all play at different times and the number of simultaneous users will be quite low, and they will have the same problem.

To truly make this work, you'd need overwhelming support from the entire current and former playerbase. If even the official forum community isn't rallying behind it, I just don't see that happening, no matter how many signatures you have on an off-site petition.

(in before someone just declares me to be "wrong" with no real basis).


But it seems that all-or-nothing is the going meme here. People saying it was all horrible back then, or all great, or whatever. The truth is more subtle and common-sense - there have been some great improvements to the game since 2008~ and also some detrimental changes. And those changes are appreciated differently by different players. It is very complex and so the universal "it is better" or "it is worse" is not useful, imho. Some things are better, some are worse.I have to say I agree with this sentiment. There isn't really a cut and dry hate and love for a certain era of the game. Different people like different parts of what's happend and dislike others.

When I look at people who quit 5+ years ago though, I don't see them as having left and not returned "because abyssea" or "because insert feature here is no good", because they haven't experienced those contents. If they don't like them, it's merely a perception given to them by word of mouth, and not based on actual experience. So with all due respect, how do you know people who quit a long time ago wouldn't like the game now? You may think they wouldn't, and that's fine, but that's an opinion not a fact.

[ruzoko]

<I need some time to put together my answer.> :P

But it seems that all-or-nothing is the going meme here. People saying it was all horrible back then, or all great, or whatever. The truth is more subtle and common-sense - there have been some great improvements to the game since 2008~ and also some detrimental changes. And those changes are appreciated differently by different players. It is very complex and so the universal "it is better" or "it is worse" is not useful, imho. Some things are better, some are worse.

I personally liked the old party xp system, and I dislike the XP Avalanche afk thing in Aby Sandsweepers, especially since the Rambo BLM updates. Old xp parties were more social and involved more individual skill plus effort. To me that made them more fun than just leeching and watching numbers go up.

I liked level 75 player and 75 gear cap. It was simpler and you could use stuff you farmed years ago. I don't like my gear being re-outdated all the time.

So those are the things I miss. I don't miss running really slowly lol. I don't miss waiting for airships. And I love the HP nexus warp system. I also like the level synch and gear scaling systems a lot. So I would play on a level 75 server for sure, but only if it wasn't 100% retro timewarp, and included *some* of the positive changes (such as movement speed and HP nexus etc.) that have been added since 2008~.

Do agree with you there, there are some improvements to FFXI that i would prefer be put in the classic way, the cost is hard to say it would definitely take time to do though, but SE did botch up alot of FFXI with the releases after abyssea. Which as i heard from another is possibly due to a rush to get some money back from how badly the original FFXIV release went, since the release of it was around the same time abyssea and following occurred.

[Alhanelem]

I liked level 75 player and 75 gear cap. It was simpler and you could use stuff you farmed years ago. I don't like my gear being re-outdated all the time.As an example of differing perspectives creating different views about how good the game was and is: I hated this. It's not as fun when the stuff you farmed years ago is still the best, because then you don't get the buzz and excietment of finding new rewards, because rarely do you find anything new that is better (and inventory frustration made me hate the deluge of "sidegrades"). Keeping the level cap the same the so long contributed to things getting stale in my opinion. As a Summoner, my gear literally looked nearly the same for years, and that's boring, especially when we were also waiting years for defects in our job to be addressed. I was pretty close to quitting before the level cap rise was announced, and then I was back in the thick of things again. It was fun doing new stuff and getting upgrades, something that was very rare before.

But like I said, different people have different experiences and different reasons for playing. Neither camp is "right" or "wrong." As someone once said, "your mileage may vary."

This is why, for me, it comes down to an issue of development resources. There are undoubtedly some people who at worst would want to reminisce, and at best would regularly want to play an old version. The question is if it's realistically plausible for the devs to implement this. I'm honestly expecting a community rep to come in here and say "There are currently no plans". I totally wouldn't mind being suprised though- If they did say they would do it, then that tells me (hopefully) they have the resources or can get the additional resources required.

[ruzoko]

The thing is, Plumb doesn't either. He's just declaring people to be wrong with no basis.

Internet petitions are highly abuseable and I put no stake in them whatsoever. Since posting here requires a game account and you have to buy more copies of the game to have more accounts, vote padding is far less likely. Internet Petitions are also not scientific and do not prove anything.

Again, I'm not against the concept of the idea itself, but rather i object to the potential disruption it would cause to current players enjoying the current game in its current state. I also highly doubt that even the people on this petition supporting the idea would come back for very long if the "old" server didn't get content updates (if it did, it would eventually return to where we are now and render the whole thing pointless)- and if it got content updates, that would hamper the progress of the main game. So the only way this can happen is if the dev team is suddenly given more resources to work with than they have currently. Even if you have 1000 people who say will definitely play on a retro server, they may all play at different times and the number of simultaneous users will be quite low, and they will have the same problem.

To truly make this work, you'd need overwhelming support from the entire current and former playerbase. If even the official forum community isn't rallying behind it, I just don't see that happening, no matter how many signatures you have on an off-site petition.

(in before someone just declares me to be "wrong" with no real basis).

Again, whos to say it would affect the current players servers at all? As for how far the updates to this classic server would go obviously it would have to be well thought out seeing as those who support it do not want an ilvl system nor Abyssea put in, so as far as that goes may as well do away with Abyssea and SoA keeping the other content added to old zones, ex: meebles WoE etc..and again MANY players dont even bother with forums I personally find these forums nothing more than a troll fest where people mock one another while some debate is actually worth the time. I am merely here to do some support for the game due to the fact i did enjoy the old ways, and yes the petition is abuseable obviously with Cloud, Jack, and Mr. Rice on there. however, the amount of support it can potentially gain that are authentic people is greater than those who would bother with these forums again, stating it usually isn't worth the time to get on these. Wether or not this server comes to be will highly weigh on few factors.
1. SE's profit in it, (they wont risk a loss of $$$ that's for sure)
2. The amount of people that would actually go to this server (highly variable considering there is definitely over 1k people who support this idea, but wont bother to support using the same excuses of SE hasn't the money, not enough people etc, but fact is ONLY SE can say wether they do or do not have the resources to do so and will act accordingly. As well as you stated saying you do not want the current group who enjoy FFXI as is to be disrupted, again only SE can say what they can or can not do. (would be nice for a dev to poke in just to answer that question to alleviate that matter and take that worry off some people's shoulders)

[ruzoko]

This is why, for me, it comes down to an issue of development resources. There are undoubtedly some people who at worst would want to reminisce, and at best would regularly want to play an old version. The question is if it's realistically plausible for the devs to implement this. I'm honestly expecting a community rep to come in here and say "There are currently no plans". I totally wouldn't mind being suprised though- If they did say they would do it, then that tells me (hopefully) they have the resources or can get the additional resources required.

Agreed, would be nice for a Dev to say yay or nay to this or at least give us some comment on their opinion, many players as i said stay at bay from this idea with the excuses i posted a few minutes ago, despite actually wanting it.
(broke quote lol)

[Alhanelem]

Again, whos to say it would affect the current players servers at all?It absolutely would affect them. i'm not speaking about populations, I'm speaking about division of development resources). The fact is they cannot conjure a server out of thin air. Some number of people would have to commit some amount of time to make this happen. It's not something that can be done by just snapping fingers. THere are logistical issues, web issues (setting up the site for world transfers, etc), and hardware issues (installing new server hardware).


1. SE's profit in it, (they wont risk a loss of $$$ that's for sure)This isn't a guaranteed profit proposition. It will cost them money to set up- if not enough people resubscribe because of it, or buy new character slots because of it, etc, it will not outweigh the setup and development costs. SE would certainly need to do a cost-benefit analysis before doing something like this.


Agreed, would be nice for a Dev to say yay or nay to this or at least give us some comment on their opinion, many players as i said stay at bay from this idea with the excuses i posted a few minutes ago, despite actually wanting it.
(broke quote lol) Well, I'm happy we have an understanding here. :) That's really my main concern. If they devs indicate they can overcome that, then I'm all for it. I won't participate in it, but I don't want to rain all over another person's enjoyment.

[ruzoko]

When I look at people who quit 5+ years ago though, I don't see them as having left and not returned "because abyssea" or "because insert feature here is no good", because they haven't experienced those contents. If they don't like them, it's merely a perception given to them by word of mouth, and not based on actual experience. So with all due respect, how do you know people who quit a long time ago wouldn't like the game now? You may think they wouldn't, and that's fine, but that's an opinion not a fact.

It is opinion with this matter, I myself played from 2005-2013 quitting a month or so after SoA was released, the game met its death with how it was done and with the release of ARR, its alive somewhat but a mere shell of its former glory, more based for the casual player.

[ruzoko]

It absolutely would affect them. i'm not speaking about populations, I'm speaking about division of development resources). The fact is they cannot conjure a server out of thin air. Some number of people would have to commit some amount of time to make this happen. It's not something that can be done by just snapping fingers. THere are logistical issues, web issues (setting up the site for world transfers, etc), and hardware issues (installing new server hardware).

This isn't a guaranteed profit proposition. It will cost them money to set up- if not enough people resubscribe because of it, or buy new character slots because of it, etc, it will not outweigh the setup and development costs. SE would certainly need to do a cost-benefit analysis before doing something like this.

Well, I'm happy we have an understanding here. :) That's really my main concern. If they devs indicate they can overcome that, then I'm all for it. I won't participate in it, but I don't want to rain all over another person's enjoyment.

Well, still the amount of impact on the current FFXI would be hard to know, as i said the development of a new server would indeed take time to setup and such but as far as the actual progression of said server unlike the current there will be a point the content will hit a stand still as thats where the limit to what players on a casual server want. (unless SE tosses in more side things akin to meeble BCNMS etc) sadly nobody can say for sure how much resources SE even has only they can say if its enough or too little so the argument there isnt something to really debate. If SE can do it they will if not they will say so lol

[Natasha]

It absolutely would affect them. i'm not speaking about populations, I'm speaking about division of development resources). The fact is they cannot conjure a server out of thin air. Some number of people would have to commit some amount of time to make this happen. It's not something that can be done by just snapping fingers. THere are logistical issues, web issues (setting up the site for world transfers, etc), and hardware issues (installing new server hardware).

This isn't a guaranteed profit proposition. It will cost them money to set up- if not enough people resubscribe because of it, or buy new character slots because of it, etc, it will not outweigh the setup and development costs. SE would certainly need to do a cost-benefit analysis before doing something like this.

Well, I'm happy we have an understanding here. :) That's really my main concern. If they devs indicate they can overcome that, then I'm all for it. I won't participate in it, but I don't want to rain all over another person's enjoyment.

No, there is no solid basis for it having an impact on the other player base. You are assuming the development resources are finite and cannot be expanded for any reason. Could it impact them? yes. But if there is a solid base that wants this then they have just as much right to development resources as any other group playing no? As for hardware, they already have it. Players have been wanting server merges to bump average populations up for quite some time now and they could do this then use the hardware for the servers removed to make this server (hence no new added hardware). Transfers would not be able to be made to this server, if they did it would be minimal at best (only things like quest progress and levels/crafts would be transferable and would have to be cut off at 75, its better just to not allow them). The very reason I am asking for a SERVER is to avoid having to fight over what is best for the game with people. I'd rather have people like Draylo have the game they want and let the devs go where they will with development of the game while keeping things classic players want on a separate server where they don't interfere with each-other.

Also, there really isn't an option on the petition. It was suggested by someone in this thread so I went ahead and made it. Its better than nothing as this forum has very few active members and most of them are those that are ok with the changes made (as evidenced by the fact they're still here). If you have a suggestion to make it better, feel free to let me know.

[Alhanelem]

No, there is no solid basis for it having an impact on the other player base. You are assuming the development resources are finite and cannot be expanded for any reason.On the contrary, there is a very solid basis and I very clearly explained it. It takes resources. There is no denying that. The exact amount can be debated all day but that's not important to the point. They can't wave a magic wand and instantly have more resources. They would at a minimum probably have to hire additional personnel, which means additional costs for a certain amount of time with no increase in income until the venture is completed. This isn't some made up thing i'm conjuring up, it's basic business concepts for the industry.

Yes, they can expand their resources if their analysis determines that a certain increase in income will be achieved. But they can't realistically do that until the money starts coming in. There will be at a minimum, a short term impact on normal game development. Whether or not there will be a long term impact depends on how successful the venture is.


I'd rather have people like Draylo have the game they want and let the devs go where they will with development of the gameI feel like you're arguing with me for no clear reason. This is my sentiment as well. I won't be joining such a server, but I'm totally not opposed to it existing *as long as it doesn't compromise development on the current game*. We can really argue all day about whether or not it would, but in the end, it's SE that needs to analyze the costs, benefits, potential and pitfalls, and come to their own conclusion about that. Until then, the only thing any of us can offer is conjecture.

[Natasha]

On the contrary, there is a very solid basis and I very clearly explained it. It takes resources. There is no denying that. The exact amount can be debated all day but that's not important to the point. They can't wave a magic wand and instantly have more resources. They would at a minimum probably have to hire additional personnel, which means additional costs for a certain amount of time with no increase in income until the venture is completed. This isn't some made up thing i'm conjuring up, it's basic business concepts for the industry.

Yes, they can expand their resources if their analysis determines that a certain increase in income will be achieved. But they can't realistically do that until the money starts coming in. There will be at a minimum, a short term impact on normal game development. Whether or not there will be a long term impact depends on how successful the venture is.

What you clearly explained is that it takes resources, this is not in debate. What is in debate is that they cannot expand their resource pool for such a project if needed which would negate the impact of the additional cost. You say that like SE is not known for doing such things when that is exactly what they did with FFXIV, XIV was a gigantic money and resource suck and they poured tons into it. Yes they expected a return but they didn't expect a giant one, the decision was motivated highly by the idea that the final fantasy brand is important and the need to support it. The same thing here, they could easily expand on the budget for the game until the completion of this project if they chose to do so.

[Stompa]

As an example of differing perspectives creating different views about how good the game was and is: I hated this. It's not as fun when the stuff you farmed years ago is still the best, because then you don't get the buzz and excietment of finding new rewards, because rarely do you find anything new that is better (and inventory frustration made me hate the deluge of "sidegrades").

Well, I wanted to stay lvl 75 but have new lvl 75 gear, new areas, new mobs, new NMs etc. And the inventory space could still have been expanded so you had lots of lvl 75 stuff and space to store it.

Again this was my point, you need to make a distinction between how the game was with the inventory problems etc. and say well we could have had those improvements without adding the ilvl mousewheel that you will run in for all eternity. We could have stayed 75 and had the old levelling system, while still adding uber new 75 gear, lots of new areas and NMs etc. and inventory space / movement speed / etc. It is possible to like the increased inventory and to like the movement speed etc. without liking ilvl mousewheel gear with built-in obsolescence. I would sooner camp a new NM that drops a lvl 75 weapon I can use situationally for years, than pour 20m gil skirmish stones into randomly generated augments, for a weapon that will be /tossed in a few months when the new better stuff arrives.

I don't mind criticising the old FFXI at all, I can list things that were wrong with the old game all day long. But some things were good and I personally think the lvl 75 cap and the traditional party levelling were good things.

[PlumbGame]

Lol, Alhanelem still going strong that anyone disagreeing with him is personally attacking him I see.

[PlumbGame]

What happened to the poll? Assuming it was removed?

[Natasha]

What happened to the poll? Assuming it was removed?

I removed it because people were trolling it with fake celebrity names. Just going to have to hope we can get a dev response anyway.

[Alhanelem]

Lol, Alhanelem still going strong that anyone disagreeing with him is personally attacking him I see.
Actually, you're the one who's doing that, not me. You've branded anyone who disagrees you as wrong. I, on the contrary, have not done that. I have not declared anyone disagreeing with me in this thread as personally attacking me. Not once in this thread. Where you're getting that impression, I have no idea.

[PlumbGame]

I removed it because people were trolling it with fake celebrity names. Just going to have to hope we can get a dev response anyway.

Hmm, that sucks, hopefully we will get something. Wouldn't get our hopes up sadly.

[Yadam]

If they made one oldschool server, would all the current casuals quit? no.... So any of them to even come in here blabbing is hilarious. I also find it so funny that all these haters seem to have a full knowledge of SE's financial situation and love to tell us how it isn't possible because of this or that, like they know what they're talking about, no they're just shooting shit out cause they love to argue. Just give us the option to play the old game that we loved.

[mattkoko]

Actually, you're the one who's doing that, not me. You've branded anyone who disagrees you as wrong. I, on the contrary, have not done that. I have not declared anyone disagreeing with me in this thread as personally attacking me. Not once in this thread. Where you're getting that impression, I have no idea.

I know me and you have had our disagreements in the past but I just made this exact point in the other thread about bringing back classic servers. I have been trying to be nice about it but this is one of the main reasons I have not been joining the debate on these threads.

[nekrothing]

I know me and you have had our disagreements in the past but I just made this exact point in the other thread about bringing back classic servers. I have been trying to be nice about it but this is one of the main reasons I have not been joining the debate on these threads.

Most people that are against the idea of a classic server aren't basing their reasoning on logic or evidence. They're assuming a classic server wouldn't work because of how they feel about it. Whenever I mention the potential success of a classic server, my reasoning is based on some sort of established precedent, along with an article to substantiate my claims. For example...

1. "A classic server wouldn't be successful in today's market."

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/44283-This-game-could-beneift-from-a-classic-server.?p=524499&viewfull=1#post524499

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/44283-This-game-could-beneift-from-a-classic-server.?p=524819#post524819

Lineage 2 found great success when adding subscription-based classic servers, more than anyone could've hoped. They only planned on having one, but ended up adding three due to popularity. Now they're expecting multiple international classic servers, doubling that number from three to six, and receiving tons of hype from the international community.

2. "It's just nostalgia. Nobody would be interested that type of gameplay anymore."

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/44283-This-game-could-beneift-from-a-classic-server.?p=525189&viewfull=1#post525189

Dragon Quest X is identical in nearly every aspect to how this game used to play, right down to grinding experience in camps with other players. They've already surpassed the one million sales mark, and just recently, 3DS shipments had to be postponed because of how many players were logging on simultaneously.

[Zarchery]

Most people that are against the idea of a classic server aren't basing their reasoning on logic or evidence. They're assuming a classic server wouldn't work because of how they feel about it. Whenever I mention the potential success of a classic server, my reasoning is based on some sort of established precedent, along with an article to substantiate my claims. For example...

1. "A classic server wouldn't be successful in today's market."

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/44283-This-game-could-beneift-from-a-classic-server.?p=524499&viewfull=1#post524499

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/44283-This-game-could-beneift-from-a-classic-server.?p=524819#post524819

Lineage 2 found great success when adding subscription-based classic servers, more than anyone could've hoped. They only planned on having one, but ended up adding three due to popularity. Now they're expecting multiple international classic servers, doubling that number from three to six, and receiving tons of hype from the international community.



You have to stop making this apples to oranges comparison. Every MMORPG is different. Lineage 2 is not equal to Final Fantasy 11. Just because they had a player base interested in their classic server doesn't mean this game will too.

Further, can classic Lineage 2 run on small server populations? Would the gameplay work as well on a population of 500 as it would on a population of 3000? Because FFXI sure can't.



2. "It's just nostalgia. Nobody would be interested that type of gameplay anymore."

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/44283-This-game-could-beneift-from-a-classic-server.?p=525189&viewfull=1#post525189

Dragon Quest X is identical in nearly every aspect to how this game used to play, right down to grinding experience in camps with other players. They've already surpassed the one million sales mark, and just recently, 3DS shipments had to be postponed because of how many players were logging on simultaneously.

Dragon Quest 10 has high subscription numbers for the same reason classic FFXI had high subscription numbers: it's new. I guarantee you that in 10 years its numbers won't be anywhere near where it is now.

This cry for a classic server is a lot like a pyramid scheme--it relies on unrealistically optimistic projections. A pyramid scheme will make some grandiose claim like "If you send this E-Mail out to 8,000 people and they all send you $5, that's $40,000 cash! But that's if everyone does it, so let's just assume a much more conservative 1 in 8 people will send the money! That's still $5,000 and you can do it over and over!" Except 1 in 8 people won't forward the stupid chain E-Mail; virtually nobody will.

And it's like that with this classic server idea. The proponents figure some bold estimate of 10% of existing players will move, plus it'll entice players who quit to return, and somehow you'll have huge numbers. But these are huge "ifs". We have, what, half a dozen proponents of this idea on this board? Classic FFXI required thousands of players to work. Average population at a given time was around 3,000 people. There's what, 17 active servers now? On a good day, you get 1,000 people online. That's 17,000 players total on a good day If you take the excessively optimistic projection of 10%, that's still only 1700 players, and I strongly doubt you'd get that. Even then, I'd bet you anything the novelty wears off quickly.

[PlumbGame]

You have to stop making this apples to oranges comparison. Every MMORPG is different. Lineage 2 is not equal to Final Fantasy 11. Just because they had a player base interested in their classic server doesn't mean this game will too.

Further, can classic Lineage 2 run on small server populations? Would the gameplay work as well on a population of 500 as it would on a population of 3000? Because FFXI sure can't.

Dragon Quest 10 has high subscription numbers for the same reason classic FFXI had high subscription numbers: it's new. I guarantee you that in 10 years its numbers won't be anywhere near where it is now.

I think you are missing the implication. He isn't saying it is guaranteed to work, because that would be silly. Everything in life has chance to fail. What do you base you ideas off though? When trying to argue ideas, you tend to base it off someone else success. Why do you think there is so many WoW clones? Why do you think there is also WoW clones that fail? What do you suppose people for the idea would base there opinions off of? Do you hope they come into this thread, say they want it, and anyone can F off (almost similar to what the people say who are against it)? No, they provide concrete evidence of other games success rates for said things that supposedly no one wants. Does it mean it will work? Not necessarily, but you need some grounds to base the idea that this could be successful. He also clearly pointed out his intention in the beginning of his post with provided evidence, while again, every single person that has been against the idea so far hasn't provided anything valid against the idea or anything at all to support there claims (which isn't necessarily their burden of proof, but there is some strong opinions against this idea, you would think there would be more support than just their opinion). That is more-or-less where he is going with his post.

Besides trying to clarify what I felt he is trying to say, that really is what it comes down to, is how big can you get a pop on these servers, and sadly, there is no way to get accurate results from these forums. FFXI (imo) would not be the same if only a pop of 500 would to play on a server like this, hell, even a pop of what most the servers currently see I don't think would be very successful. That being said, that is another reason there is links to other companies doing such things to show that it is possible. I know from my own experience playing on EQ's progression servers that the pop was vastly larger on these servers vs a normal server. Also note that EQ is older than FFXI and they had a 4k+ pop of users online almost 24/7, actually I think it was even higher, so they had to open up a new server just to compensate for the overflow.

[FrankReynolds]

Ford released a mustang that looked like a classic mustang, therefor everyone will buy a classic honda civic.

[PlumbGame]

Ford released a mustang that looked like a classic mustang, therefor everyone will buy a classic honda civic.

Relevance right here.

[Demonjustin]

Just because one classic remake is done and works doesn't mean that another would do the same when built around a different design and meant for a different group of people.

[PlumbGame]

Just because one classic remake is done and works doesn't mean that another would do the same when built around a different design and meant for a different group of people.

People really wonder why I keep telling others to l2read. This is a prime example right here. No one is claiming some kind of guarantee that it will work, we use examples of other companies success etc blah blah blah repeat repeat repeat X Y Z 12345679 pi 22.

[Demonjustin]

It's not a problem with reading so much as I was pointing out the relevance of the remark due to the fact that your comment seemed to more or less miss the point behind the remark. I understand what you're doing, I understand why you're doing it. I don't have any interest in a classic server but I wouldn't care if they added one, I don't think it'll work but I'm not going to oppose it when I have no reason to either. As a result, I honestly haven't read most of this thread, I just wanted to point out what was seemingly missed in the remark, nothing more.

[kylani]

I wonder if a server dedicated to a more classic style (kinda like a role-play designated server) wouldn't be as sufficient as a classic server rolled back to some point in time?

I'm not sure SE can go back to the classic server, but I feel like you can do everything that you could in the past today. The difference is the player base isn't of the same mindset, and it's harder to find linkshells/parties that want to play old style.

If there were a designated server for those who prefer grouping/classic style of play, perhaps that would help like minded people find each other more easily.

I love how FFXI has changed and feel it needed to, but it doesn't mean I don't miss the old style of play generally. I can remember coming back after Abyssea and having a blast grouping with some friends, only to find out the new way to exp was to book burn, and folks would run you over if you didn't join. We hated book burning, and still exp'd the old way, just found camps that weren't book burning camps. It was disappointing to have to miss some of our favorite old camps, but we adjusted and still had fun and had new content. Level sync was fantastic for us.

I won't auto-level a job in Abyssea, but when I first came back, I leveled my RDM because a friend took me and caught me up so I could do the end game stuff. For those who want that, I think the changes have been great. I don't have to do things I don't care about doing. I still love a lot of other additions. I feel I can still play my way, except that it is difficult to find people who WANT to do the old group content the way it was intended.

Outside of more options making most folks take the easiest path (and thus making linkshells/grouping less necessary at lower levels), I feel like having more options is a good thing. If you have friends to level with, I don't see how the current setup is so different from the past. Exp is a lot easier, but it still takes time leveling the old fashioned way. In many cases you can choose not to use the newer things you don't like. I enjoyed old fashioned skill up parties, hunting for keys, level breaks, etc with friends, and nothing stops me from doing it today outside of not having anyone who wants to do it or needs help doing it.

If being on a classic server is to force folks to play the old way, I can see some doing joining, but it's hard to imagine most not preferring some of the wonderful options that have been added.

I could see going to a server more dedicated to 'role playing/ old style play', but much as I loved ffxi nostalgically, I can't imagine going back to the game exactly as it was when I started or at a given point along the way. There is so much great content to enjoy now. Where would 'Classic' stop, exactly? And what specifically could you do in the classic server that you couldn't do today if you could find like minded folks? I know it takes more exp to level, and some things like COP have been made easier, but they were made easier several times, which version is the 'classic version?' I thought Cop was exceptional as it was, but I think more folks have enjoyed it now that it's easier to complete, and it would be a shame for folks not to be able to experience the wonderful story.

Just my thoughts.

[PlumbGame]

It's not a problem with reading so much as I was pointing out the relevance of the remark due to the fact that your comment seemed to more or less miss the point behind the remark. I understand what you're doing, I understand why you're doing it. I don't have any interest in a classic server but I wouldn't care if they added one, I don't think it'll work but I'm not going to oppose it when I have no reason to either. As a result, I honestly haven't read most of this thread, I just wanted to point out what was seemingly missed in the remark, nothing more.

There was nothing missed by the remark. The troll came in here trying to compare apples to oranges. It's like asking if tbell would be successful with a classic burrito just because McDonalds was successful with a classic hamburger. Neither have anything to do with video games. Let alone the horrible comparison considering many people do buy/own "classic" honda civics.

[Demonjustin]

My apologies.

[PlumbGame]

My apologies.

Don't apologize. You did nothing wrong. All you did was participate in the convo. The guy was just trying to troll. Even though I do love current FFXI, I also strongly support this idea, one reason I sometimes get so heated in the discussion. So it's just nothing more that drives me nuts than comments like his without fully understanding what people like me may be getting at. Well, maybe he does, he just felt it was necessary to try and be a smartass.

I apologize for sometimes coming off as rude.

[nekrothing]

Even then, I'd bet you anything the novelty wears off quickly.

Your conjecture was very interesting, thank you.

Now, if you would be so kind as to validate your claims with sources.

[Natasha]

Just because one classic remake is done and works doesn't mean that another would do the same when built around a different design and meant for a different group of people.

Except as I have explained several times in this thread, everquest. Everquest is 1. older than ffxi 2. built around the same group centric design (you need to party to level their too and similar style endgame) 3. has a popular semi-classic progression server that raised profits 4. has a very large private server that is intent on offering a completely classic experience (project 1999) that has generally about a thousand people on at a time. Everquest is in a very similar situation to ffxi and it has shown that with this type of game a classic server can be a success. Its not apples to oranges.

That being said, as plumb said theres no guarantee, its just showing that these things do work and that these are things that people do want.

[detlef]

I apologize for sometimes coming off as rude.Thank you for acknowledging this. It's been very unpleasant reading your responses to my and others' posts. Vanilla.

[PlumbGame]

Thank you for acknowledging this. It's been very unpleasant reading your responses to my and others' posts. Vanilla.

Go vanilla yourself.

[Zarchery]

Your conjecture was very interesting, thank you.

Now, if you would be so kind as to validate your claims with sources.

You want me to cite sources to support a purely hypothetical thing that never actually happened?

We're all conjecturing here, difference is that I don't pretend mine is backed by facts. You keep saying "Classic FFXI would work because Classic Lineage worked". Which makes no sense. Lineage != Final Fantasy 11. It's like... Sex and the City was a hugely popular TV show. Then it went off the air. Two knockoff series then followed--Lipstick Jungle and Cashmere Mafia. Both failed miserably. But your mode of thinking dictates that they should have succeeded, because Sex and the City was popular.

[PlumbGame]

You want me to cite sources to support a purely hypothetical thing that never actually happened?

We're all conjecturing here, difference is that I don't pretend mine is backed by facts. You keep saying "Classic FFXI would work because Classic Lineage worked". Which makes no sense. Lineage != Final Fantasy 11. It's like... Sex and the City was a hugely popular TV show. Then it went off the air. Two knockoff series then followed--Lipstick Jungle and Cashmere Mafia. Both failed miserably. But your mode of thinking dictates that they should have succeeded, because Sex and the City was popular.

Again, this is faulty logic when you use a simile of something of no relevance. You would of been better comparing WoW knock offs that failed, which is also an entirely different reasoning. It isn't just Lineage that has been pointed out in these threads also, there has been several different success stories. One of which is almost similar in all aspects except the job system which is EQ. There is also a "more probable than not" basis when you look at supporting evidence of the facts, which he is saying that he has provided. He is basically asking what supporting evidence do you guys have to validate the supposed failures that exist with something like this. There hasn't been anything provided, so how can we determine based off of known information that it would fail, because the known information that has been provided shows that something like this would succeed rather than not. That's to not say that it would, but like I said, "more probable than not".

[Zarchery]

No, the known information he has shown was that "something like this" worked, in the same way that "something like Cashmere Mafia" worked, but Cashmere Mafia didn't.

The assertion "this other MMORPG with a classic server worked so every MMORPG with a classic server will likely work" is exactly as faulty as "this TV show about women in the city living glamorous lives worked so every TV show about women in the city with glamorous lives will likely work".

There's also probable evidence that it would fail if you look at 1) the low server populations we have now and 2) the even lower server populations on the private servers which fulfill this need.

[Olor]

I'd like them to put in a classic server so it could fail and everyone could stop asking for it.

[PlumbGame]

No, the known information he has shown was that "something like this" worked, in the same way that "something like Cashmere Mafia" worked, but Cashmere Mafia didn't.

The assertion "this other MMORPG with a classic server worked so every MMORPG with a classic server will likely work" is exactly as faulty as "this TV show about women in the city living glamorous lives worked so every TV show about women in the city with glamorous lives will likely work".

There's also probable evidence that it would fail if you look at 1) the low server populations we have now and 2) the even lower server populations on the private servers which fulfill this need.

Actually it's not, you compared a tv series to a game. You also treat it like FFXI would be recreating Linage, when it is recreating FFXI. Your reference is a TV show copying another TV show.

That isn't probable evidence. Lower pop for current FFXI doesn't indicate any failure of past FFXI, matter of fact, the eras suggest had pops of 3k+ which is even more probable than not evidence of success. The private servers have already been pointed out, but I'll point out the most again. First, private servers aren't even suppose to be mentioned here, let alone on most sites aren't aloud to be mentioned, removing a vast amount of population possibly interested not even knowing of it's existence. 2nd, people want an SE handled classic server, not a third party. Third, the stability of said private servers is usually garbage, and usually can't hand X amount of people in the server, let alone X amount of people in 1 zone unless they fork out hefty amount of money which usually isn't the case, not just for XI, but most private servers for anything. Fourth, the functionality is garbage of said server, with many aspects hard coded not being able to be removed yet, or ever. Things like pathing don't even work properly, let alone many of the JA/Skills/Spells etc. I could keep going, but to use any XI private server as a basis for your argument is outrageous and kind of insulting. None-the-less, if we were to talk about how much people do love nostalgia, look at project 1999 for EQ which is almost as good as it gets to an exact replica (while some aspects may need some work), and has a higher pop than the live servers hit in 1999. Anyways, just saying, if you are going to compare a private server, at least use one that isn't garbage, and those don't exist, or are even close to replicating the classic era of FFXI. I've even played on one religiously, and although fun, was still so far away it was kind of deteriorating to me ever thinking a private server will hit such capabilities for FFXI.

[PlumbGame]

I'd like them to put in a classic server so it could fail and everyone could stop asking for it.

Like the OP then! ^^

[nekrothing]

You want me to cite sources to support a purely hypothetical thing that never actually happened?

I'm providing a logical basis for my reasoning based on empirical evidence. Your personal beliefs are the basis for your conjecture, which are neither rational nor valid.

If you're going to suggest that a classic server won't be successful, I'm going to need more than "because I said so, here are some hypothetical examples I made up." Without validating your claims by citing relevant sources to establish a logical basis for your reasoning, your argument has no solid foundation to stand on.

[PlumbGame]

On another note, I would like to know server costs if anyone happens to have this info on hand or know get hosting service. Let us try take some costs into account and what better way to start then by assuming a server like this is going to take up obvious costs of running it. Without getting into detail of what SEs supposed resources are or limitations, I would like to know what we may be looking at for a number of subs active on a server like this to alone just cover the costs of flipping a switch and just letting it run. Thanks ahead of time if someone can find some of this info, I know I could just google it and try and find something, but I seem to not be finding any concrete information. Can't believe I just failed at googling.

[mattkoko]

I'd like them to put in a classic server so it could fail and everyone could stop asking for it.

Alright, let's use your logic with a topic you care about. I have seen the bst thread. Using your logic, I am going to say, I hope they give you new pets and hope they fail just so you can stop asking for new pets. Better yet, let's just erase the job all together. That will shut them up.

Now of course I don't actually wish that. The point is the people that are for a classic server are obviously passionate about it. And they should be allowed to express their interest, just like you are allowed to express your interest with the improvements on bst. It is one thing to debate and disagree but to wish something fails is just selfish. Personally speaking, I probably would not use the classic server if it ever got put up and I have my reasons.

Whether it succeeds or not is another story. I personally think it wouldn't succeed and again, I have my reasons for that which I will not express, mainly because I share my reasoning with a couple of other points both with others as well as some of my own in previous posts. We have talked circles about it through out this thread and the other thread. but I am also open to the fact that I could end up being wrong. But to hope it fails just so you can prove a point? Grow up.

With that said, I hope they make a classic server and hope it succeeds, because it will both shut everyone up, and so everyone would be happy. Just joking about the shutting everyone up part. Figured I would try to lighten the mood. But hey, I am all for making everyone happy. The more people they make happy, the more money they bring in, meaning more opportunities to create better content and make bst a better job just to shut the bsts up. Jk again. Okay this is where I shut up :D.

[madmartin]

how about instead of an outright classic server, they make like a hybrid server, which would include level 75 cap and no abyssea but all the expansions before that up to wotg and the 3 mini expansions. but it would still include increased rates of xp gain so people can still low man xp instead of 6 man group onry! fighting eps as a duo group would still net a fair bit of xp this way! no trusts, let people group again, no fov, as we dont really want those real fast 18 man alliences. maybe keep the home point warps and some other quality of life adjustments. maybe keep level sync, that happened way before abyssea anyway. id say put the cop level caps back otherwise everyone would just low man them at later levels, keep the challenge. i'd like them to reverse the mpk patch but thats just me!

[FrankReynolds]

Relevance right here.

A Ford Mustang is about as relevant to FFXI as that other game you linked to, in that it is not relevant at all. That was the point. I'm all for your classic server, but your argument is horrible.

[PlumbGame]

A Ford Mustang is about as relevant to FFXI as that other game you linked to, in that it is not relevant at all. That was the point. I'm all for your classic server, but your argument is horrible.

A Ford Mustang is is about as relevant to FFXI as the other game that was linked to? Lmao

[FrankReynolds]

A Ford Mustang is is about as relevant to FFXI as the other game that was linked to? Lmao

Yes, I'm not the first one to point it out either. I just found my way more amusing. Glad you liked it. :)

[PlumbGame]

Yes, I'm not the first one to point it out either. I just found my way more amusing. Glad you liked it. :)

Not only did I like it, but I find you amusing in general. Thanks for the laughs.

[Olor]

Alright, let's use your logic with a topic you care about. I have seen the bst thread. Using your logic, I am going to say, I hope they give you new pets and hope they fail just so you can stop asking for new pets. Better yet, let's just erase the job all together. That will shut them up.


That doesn't make any sense. At all.

I say this because, frankly, if people cannot get even 3 people on any given server together who want to do content the old way, there is ZERO chance that a "classic" server would succeed. Since I came back to the game I've seen people start 'classic' shells etc and none of them last. If people can't find people who want to play like that on existing servers it makes no sense to spend the dev time and money on a classic server that will not have enough players to work anyway.

Asking for fixes to a job is nothing like asking for a special server. Improvements to BST help every player in the game if they should so choose to use BST. Having a classic server would be a waste of resources. Also there are far more BSTs than people who want to grind tediously through 10 year old content.

[PlumbGame]

There is currently at this time of posting, more likes for a classic server than your bst got screwed thread. Which is also higher than 3. There is also fundamental issues with "classic" LS. First, and most importantly. It is 100% impossible to recreate the classic experience no matter how hard you try. Though the content exists, there has been changes to the game that cannot be removed or reverted, and if they could, I'm assuming it actually may solve a lot of the issues since people could come and go if they want, but they cant. There is also this human flaw to do what everyone else is doing / take the easier route. If the people around you aren't forced into doing the exact same thing, why would you, rather if there was an easier route, why not take it. In this case though, why would people then play on a "classic" server vs just playing on the normal server then. It's mostly the mentality that X person next to you in port jeuno didn't have an easier route, they had to go through the same crap you had to go through and experience, almost making the "grind" more worthwhile, rather then just hopping back onto the normal servers and just playing solo. That is how I view it at least when I view people trying to create the classic experience on a normal server.

[Apie]

I'd like them to put in a classic server so it could fail and everyone could stop asking for it.

THIS!

I wish I could Like your post 1000 times. A classic server is such a horrible idea, I've been playing since USA launch (technically before US launch) and FFXI is now 100x better than it used to be. Sure, I have fond memories of alliances doing things together. However, I didn't block out the HOURS upon HOURS of waiting just to do a 1 hour run. I don't miss having to level a job I didn't want to play as just because my preferred job wasn't needed in any party to do anything at all, plus since nothing was soloable. I don't miss how an alliance would work together in a Dynamis run just to make the relic weapon for 1 person while the rest just lotted over relic gear, which many times was already promised to a LS owner's friend, so most times you didn't even get anything for your work in Dynamis. I don't miss having to spend a ton of time gathering a party together only to have 1-2 people quit right after starting cause "this took too long to get started" or "I have to go to work/school now." I don't miss having to leave my mule out in Rolanberry fields just cause of the jeuno tax. I don't miss having to camp a NM for hours only to have people claim it the millisecond it pops, and this happening 10 times before finally getting the claim and not having the item drop cause of the lower treaure hunter, if TH was even part of the equation. I don't miss having to switch to BLM cause WHM couldn't have warp due to the lvl75 cap. I don't miss have CoP areas reducing my hard earned level75 to lvl30. I WILL miss the ability to /DNC any job to make staying alive a realistic option when soloing. I don't miss Emperor Ring being the only option for quicker solo leveling. I don't miss the long wait between dynamis runs...See my point? We only remember the fun times, but we ignore the countless hours wasted to have that short period of fun, whereas now you can do whatever you want, whenever you want and without having to gather a billion people to do 1 thing.

However, most tend to forget the pointless hard times, so making this classic server is a good thing, so those that don't remember the hard times as they were, will have a chance to re-live it, realize how much it sucked and then come back to the improved ffxi. Of course they probably will find other reasons to complain about it, like saying that the classic server sucks cause most that left ffxi didn't come back, so now we have too few people...etc... lol

[Bluestar2kx]

I can see a few problems with this.
First, what do we define as classic, and how do we go about doing so?
Pre abby? Pre Toau? Wotg? What about Adoulin content that's a part of the lore? Is cutting out large chunks of lore ok?
Is level sync classic? what about Fellow NPC's? And quality of life improvements such as those listed below, or uncapping promathia missions?
Is blue mage classic? What about geomancer and rune fencer? Scholar and dancer?
Would ranger be god again like it used to be? Or samurai the hot topic?

One you'd be setting the server back to before the december update of 2009. (Which was when fields of valor was added)
You'd be cutting out A LOT of content by doing that, Adoulin would have to be completely removed as there's no way Lv 75 players, even alliances couldn't roam through that zone in one piece. Either that or Adoulin would have to be scaled down, and mobs radically adjusted on this server to match that of either a scaling area like the original zones, or a 75 only region like Sea, because people will want to play a pack they paid 30-40$ for.

You'd also remove part of fellow NPC adjustments, quality of life improvements like movement speed, teleporting, WS adjustments, TP changes, gearsets, spells, job abilities and traits, hp and mp adjustments, avatars, mog wardrobe, mog case, RoE, and numerous other things, including half of the porter moogle. I'm not sure if campaign skillups would be in or out, I'd have to look through all the updates to find when they stopped it. And obviously relics would become scarce again, and mythics would be... mythical.

You'd also have to patch, update, and create content specifically for a 75 capped environment, this would double the workload for all future expansions as well, and you'd run into the same problems in the end: People don't want to do the same thing forever (Hell people in my old shell skipped sky 90% of the time, as well as dyna zones they didn't need), so you'd have to spend a lot of time creating new things for this server to keep the population, however big or small, happy.

And to even do this, you'd have to write a lengthy program to go through some tens of thousands of accounts of potential users, and possibly hundreds of thousands of characters for this server and prune all data relating to any gear, zone, or quest above 75 or related to any expansion data, then setup server transfers for those accounts, because a lot of people aren't going to want to lose their characters and start all over again, esp those who left because of abby. (I know a lot who did) But you'd have to be careful, people won't be happy if 75 or lower gear is stored in mog bags that will be removed and they lose it.

You'd then have to ensure server rollbacks didn't effect the client, because some video cards might stop working if rolled back to the old days (windows 8 platforms likely would). I know my geforce 600 series card has crashing issues with FFXI and high shadows when songs or spells go off. And players would have to run 2 seperate FFXI directories, one for mainstream (if they choose to play it too, not everyone will goto this server, so keeping in touch with friends would be essential) and one for the classic. This would be hard for some people who run FFXI on older PC's with limited space, or like me who just have limited HDD space (I run FFXI on my SSD), and could be impossible for PS2 users (Which is most of japan), though the 360 likely wouldn't be too hard once you programmed all of this into the viewer.

I don't believe FFXI has a skeleton crew, and it maybe the most profitable game in their history, but I don't know if Square is going to hire extra devs to make this server.
Would they charge extra to being on this server? What if only some characters per Id are there, and some on the main servers, do you pay full price for both? And would this interfere with the mainstream servers production and updates?

Because a lot of people likely won't move, I'm not sure entirely, if I would use the classic or not, my time is a lot more limited then it was in 2003 when I could play all day after work, so being able to login and go do the things I need or want to with my partner and not seek group in jeuno for 4 weeks just to get from lv 45-46 (I was a taru monk at the time), or watching pickup group after group fail to be promathia, or dynamis wipes because people don't know wtf they're doing anymore, and new players in FFXI proper don't have the skill sets needed to run in the old days.

I know a lot of people miss the old days, but I think a lot of people also forget how hard those days were.
After all, the number one complaint from almost everyone was: It took so long to do/get anywhere in FFXI. We'd be removing everything that made that easier, both the grind, and the travel, and get right back to where we started, with people leaving because of that.

As great as the community was back then, and the socialization, some things are best left to the pages of history.
This could be one of them.

[Alhanelem]

I can see a few problems with this.
First, what do we define as classic, and how do we go about doing so?That's one of the things that does bug me about the idea. Different people have different ideas about when the game was in its best state. The other question is where do you go from there? Do you freeze the game in that decided state? Do you re-introduce the patches overtime from there? Come up with original content just for that branch? (In order from least to most labor intensive). The game would get pretty stale after a while if it was frozen in some previous state with no updates.

Frankly I think the best part of the game was never any particular feature or patch but rather the community. I think a lot of people are just "done" after having played the same game for several years, i think that's really more of what it is than any particular thing in the game making people leave.

As I've mentioned before though, I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to them trying this if it didn't compromise the current game for those enjoying it.

[noelv1995]

Bump since its 2018 and classic servers are more than a real thing now. Can't they just like dedicate a dead server to ToAU and previous content?

[Ketaru]

Bump since its 2018 and classic servers are more than a real thing now. Can't they just like dedicate a dead server to ToAU and previous content?

As the last reply from Alhanelem in 2014 says, who gets to decide what's "classic"? Why stop at ToAU, rather than WotG even though much of WotG was already released when the game was still 75 cap?

[noelv1995]

Agreed, but why is that stopping them from making a classic server? They can do what they want, ToAU, before ToAU, up to the point in WoTG where level cap changed. They don't even need to call it classic just name it 75 cap servers. I understand this game doesn't have much support from SE but I would think they can actually make money from it. Since tbh that is what decides yes or no

[Nyarlko]

Agreed, but why is that stopping them from making a classic server? They can do what they want, ToAU, before ToAU, up to the point in WoTG where level cap changed. They don't even need to call it classic just name it 75 cap servers. I understand this game doesn't have much support from SE but I would think they can actually make money from it. Since tbh that is what decides yes or no

From what the devs have said in this past year regarding things like this, (the answer was a resounding "No." btw,) it sounds to me like there may be some licensing issues involved. Sony was involved with original development of FFXI, so this may be simply an "impossible" task.

[BurnNotice]

If anything, it's easier to upgrade the level sync function to do content of your choosing at a player level of your choice. Should this happen, there will have to be an incentive to get people to want to do this kind of content. If level syncing at 75 again will allow for certain items/materials to drop to be used for 119 drops or to help upgrade RMEAs, then I am all for it. Otherwise, to open a server for nostalgic purposes would be adverse to the current playing environment.

[Alhanelem]

From what the devs have said in this past year regarding things like this, (the answer was a resounding "No." btw,) it sounds to me like there may be some licensing issues involved. Sony was involved with original development of FFXI, so this may be simply an "impossible" task.

Also, it isn't anywhere near as simple as ppl might think, like going back through their archives for a particular build or whatever (and apparently they don't keep all of everything from past updates). But as I said in the past, there are problems with the idea:
1) What is classic? it depends on who you talk to. Who decides this?
2) Does it get updated? Unlock the later contents over time? How does this all work, because the game WILL get stale and the server will die if there is no updates, as tantalizing as a blast from the past may be.
3) Community fracturing. There is a considerable possibility that adding a special server with different content could fracture the community.
4) Rose tinted glasses. Nostalgia is great and all but you will quickly realize that without the community in the state that it was at your desired time period of the game, it's not going to be the same. Without packed servers, your experience with grinding for XP/merits/etc in particular isn't going to be terribly different from the way it is now, you'll either need alter egos or spend hours to form a party the old fashioned way. You're not going to be able to gather 20-30 people for classic dynamis, there's just a lot of things that simply won't work the way they did in the old days even if they did activate an old version of the game on a special server.
I think a much better idea than a special server with a special version of the game would be simply improving existing functions like level sync to make it easier to enjoy older contents in a way that is closer to what they were originally designed for. Currently it's a hassle to try to get things just right, and that hassle often turns away people who might otherwise be interested in fun self-imposed challenges.



Agreed, but why is that stopping them from making a classic server? They can do what they want, ToAU, before ToAU, up to the point in WoTG where level cap changed. They don't even need to call it classic just name it 75 cap servers. I understand this game doesn't have much support from SE but I would think they can actually make money from it. Since tbh that is what decides yes or no While the money to be made isn't nonexistent, the potential income has to be weighed against the cost of implementation. The devs have weighed in on this issue in the past and shot it down, basically suggesting that the cost-benefit outlook isn't good. I had a continuous subscription for over a decade, and I don't have any friends that aren't still playing that would likely be swayed back on the promise of a classic server. The fact is MMOs today are very different from when FFXI came out, and we're all older and probably have jobs etc that we might not have had before, and FFXI's depth and complexity, as awesome as it truly is, is too much for today's gamers it seems.

[Elexia]

Considering the era XI was in development (97-2001?) that was a time Square always threw out source code and such, so very very unlikely they have old builds laying around from the 2002-2004 era. It falls down to if they spend time and resources doing a classic, it could be used towards revamping the core of this game.

[Laughlyn]

Classic servers ! < Yes Please >

or rather new servers starting up, with or witouth RoE / RoV, with no option for current players to migrate / move to these servers with current characters.
Meaning, everyone who goes onto these "new" servers would have to start from scratch. (because it would be fair)
That would be fun imo.

[ultimax]

just comeback in the game and really miss the Rise of the Zilart era , let hope one day to have the classic server

[Isola]

No.

Ten Characters

[Xilk]

Classic Server: Make PS2 limitations GREAT again!

[ultimax]

is about 1 week i`m back and realize these server are bad for the classic 75 cap player because all 99 farming and pulling and zerg all mob in classic zone and nm :( in the end of this month i have no choice to cancel my sub because i can not enjoy the classic gameplay of ffxi , this is my opinion thank you

[Justuas]

is about 1 week i`m back and realize these server are bad for the classic 75 cap player because all 99 farming and pulling and zerg all mob in classic zone and nm :( in the end of this month i have no choice to cancel my sub because i can not enjoy the classic gameplay of ffxi , this is my opinion thank you

Most of your classic NMs have high level variants.

[ultimax]

these mob are in 75 zone and are design for 75 content they are from the 2003 era and are kill from level 99 in 1 or 2 hit so in the end of the month i cancel my sub and will go play 75 cap
i `m here to support the game i love from 2003 but the ffxi of today fail us :(

my last buy in 2007 but start in 2003
https://www.ffxiah.com/player/Asura/Ultimax

[Myroth]

Level to 99 and kill level 99 NMs instead. They look the same.

[ultimax]

Level to 99 and kill level 99 NMs instead. They look the same. first is very obvious this game is not design for 99 and 99% of the 99 gear look so ugly .anyway i cancel my sub and will go play the real 75 cap ffxi very soon ,
not some lazy easy ffix http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/54736-Should-rename-the-game-to-Merc-fantasy-online. this 99 ffix is just not the game i like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCj9hbnGmio

[Alhanelem]

is about 1 week i`m back and realize these server are bad for the classic 75 cap player because all 99 farming and pulling and zerg all mob in classic zone and nm :( in the end of this month i have no choice to cancel my sub because i can not enjoy the classic gameplay of ffxi , this is my opinion thank you
Then level to 99 and become a classic 99 cap player. Almost every NM that was ever popular has a high level version that drops a fittingly higher level version of the same item. Sorry if changing a number from 75 to 99 ruins the game for you but they aren't going to make a special version of the game that they'd have to seperately update and maintain.



first is very obvious this game is not design for 99 and 99% of the 99 gear look so ugly it is designed for level 99 because they made it and it exists. Your ugly gear comment is just a cop out because gear exists of almost every popular appearance that existed at 75, plus more. I also strongly disagree that the newly added outfits are ugly, I think most of them look better than the ones we had a decade ago, but gear that has all the old popular looks still exists, with updated stats and attributes. But that's subjective in all fairness. The way you are writing your comment, I have to wonder if you really believe what you're writing or if you're just saying it to convince them to do something they have already said they won't be doing.


That being said, if you look around on the web you might find alternatives if you find that you absolutely can't have fun because you have to gain a few more levels, but keep in mind that those alternatives are not legal and could be shut down at any time, so i'd advise against investing too much in something that could disappear without notice. I also strongly advise you to read my previous post above which explains why a classic server for this game would be problematic at best. I know it has worked for some games but I don't think it will work well for this one. I've seen custom servers and the problem they have is they're frozen in time. You can only do the same thing so many times before that nostalgia wears off. Plus you have to do everything you did in 2003 all over again, and you won't have the big huge community of the day to help you with that.

Also you said you quit in 2007, but even most of the people who have been asking for a "classic" server are looking towards the last few years before the cap rise, so odds are what most people are wanting that isn't the current game is still different from what you want. FFXI is still just as fun to me as it was back then. I personally welcome most of the things they've done because I have a real life and can't invest the same ridiculous number of hours waiting for NMs to spawn only to have botters win the pull.

In today's FFXI, I can pretty much do anything I want to do on my schedule, and the community that exists today is more close knit than ever- And for me, the best part of the early days was simply the community, which was (and honestly still is) stronger and has more integrity than any other MMO on the market. Often times we, as groups of people, were working on the same tasks that honestly weren't terribly fun, but it was the bonds we formed, the chats we had, and the hilarious fails and awesome successes that made it fun. A lot of MMOs today focus on optimizing the gameplay at the expense of buiilding a strong community, and it makes things feel more shallow. But even though FFXI isn't big anymore, its community is the big thing that keeps me coming back.

[BST]

I never imagined I would be back here after a decade of absence, but anyway, I am.


Even though I would personally like a Classic option, I think its better to continue with the current game model. I think what most of us miss and enjoyed is the original community feel rather than the painstaking long and drawn out grind process! Although I will confess that I kind of did enjoy that grind from New Player with no knowledge of MMO's to Lv.75 veteran in an HNML, I felt like it was quite the accomplishment! But even so, it would never be the same on a Classic server, I imagine it would get old really fast now.

[Stompa]

these mob are in 75 zone and are design for 75 content they are from the 2003 era and are kill from level 99 in 1 or 2 hit so in the end of the month i cancel my sub and will go play 75 cap
i `m here to support the game i love from 2003 but the ffxi of today fail us :(

my last buy in 2007 but start in 2003
https://www.ffxiah.com/player/Asura/Ultimax

> You can lock a level 75 character on Merit Points, and not do any further limit breaks. This means you will stay level 75 forever.

> You can play the old areas, level 75 content, NMs etc. on your level 75 character, with five Trusts in party. Or find some other people who want to play at level 75.

> Or play at level 119. The new FFXI is cool too.

> The game has increased base movement speed, so you walk and run faster. Also you can get Jumbotender bonus etc. for even faster movement speed.

> The game now has /lockstyle feature, which means you can wear any clothes on the outside of your battle armour, so your character will still have all the stats from the battle armour, but your appearance will be whatever your /lockstyle gear is (Chocobo Suit or Seasonal Event Clothes or w/e.) This means you can wear ugly armor for the stats, but still look cool on the outside.

> You can now obtain RME weapons, with a more realistic amount of time involved.

> Vana'diel is still the same Vana'diel as it was in 2004. Some things have changed, and new areas added. But underneath it, the original world of Vana'diel is still there for you to enjoy.

> All kinds of other cool and fun new stuff.

> I love playing FFXI in 2019, and I don't mind the changes really. Vana'diel is still the same world I always loved, and FFXI is still the same game I always loved.

[Alhanelem]

> You can lock a level 75 character on Merit Points, and not do any further limit breaks. This means you will stay level 75 forever.

> You can play the old areas, level 75 content, NMs etc. on your level 75 character, with five Trusts in party. Or find some other people who want to play at level 75.

> Or play at level 119. The new FFXI is cool too.

> The game has increased base movement speed, so you walk and run faster. Also you can get Jumbotender bonus etc. for even faster movement speed.

> The game now has /lockstyle feature, which means you can wear any clothes on the outside of your battle armour, so your character will still have all the stats from the battle armour, but your appearance will be whatever your /lockstyle gear is (Chocobo Suit or Seasonal Event Clothes or w/e.) This means you can wear ugly armor for the stats, but still look cool on the outside.

> You can now obtain RME weapons, with a more realistic amount of time involved.

> Vana'diel is still the same Vana'diel as it was in 2004. Some things have changed, and new areas added. But underneath it, the original world of Vana'diel is still there for you to enjoy.

> All kinds of other cool and fun new stuff.

> I love playing FFXI in 2019, and I don't mind the changes really. Vana'diel is still the same world I always loved, and FFXI is still the same game I always loved.
And if you couldn't tell, the point here is that FFXI gives you a lot of freedom to play the way you want to play. I just fully completed the relic staff (barring augmentation and having fun finding ways to leverage it that people didn't expect. Just because something isn't necessairly the most efficicent or popular doesn't mean it can't be done or can't work. And this is FFXI's charm for me.

[Krashport]

Couldn't SE just let us set our levels to anything and be done with it. I mean then we wouldn't need a Classic Server. :cool:

[Alhanelem]

you can already sync your level to (technically) anything you want, i t's just not exactly convenient right now. I'm all for letting people sync to an arbitrary level so you don't have to have someone with you at the desired level.

It really would be the simplest way to let people play the way they want. Something FFXI has always been good at doing (hey look at me with my fully upgraded Claustrum being swung around on SMN! :p)

[Laughlyn]

I'd love to play on Classic servers!

Would i pay the normal subscription fee? Hell Yeah!

As long as i can keep my normal mode / to-day game.

Benefits of Classic servers:

More new / low levels players enjoying that awesome old insane grind !

The game as it is right now don't really need much more content, but rather a fresh
start / reboot / reroll for even younger generations to experience the real FFXI.

I'd pick FFXI Classic over WoW classic, but since that's not an option or even "rumors" about that happening... im pretty sure my choice is obvious.

(still loving my FFXI more than anything)

[Sirmarki]

More new / low levels players enjoying that awesome old insane grind !


Highly unlikely in today's society. SE had to adapt many aspects of FFXI to fit with the modern day. If Asura is anything to go by; people just pay one of the hundreds of merc's shouting each day because they don't want/can't be bothered to work for it.

[saevel]

Why won't this just die in a fire where it belongs.

[Alhanelem]

They should just lock this thread.

If you really really want a server that's frozen in time with no new content (becuase that would destroy the classicness of it!), search around on the internet and you'll find options. Illegal options, but most of the people who want this badly enough don't care about that.

Aside from that, there is really nothing stopping you from just teaming up with like minded people to do things the way you feel like doing them.



More new / low levels players enjoying that awesome old insane grind !Very few gamers in today's age would be able to tolerate the level of grind the game had in the early days. Talk to anyone who plays literally any other MMO and tell them about FFXI and how the grind used to be and nearly all of them would tell you "that sounds terrible."

As i've said before, I would totally be cool with them adding a feature to arbitrarily sync yourself to any level you'd like. That would even be useful in some cases, even if you're not specifically interested in running old content the old way. That's all they really need to do, then you can just sync yourself to level 75 and knock yourself out, everyone's happy and they don't have to waste resources redeveloping an old version of the game (plus you still get your conveniences like home point teleports, etc)

[Vanisher]

I like the idea of a classic server, it already works in the form of private servers at the moment. And to those who think it will take too much resources from SE to realize this, are entirely wrong. Many of the private classic servers are/can basically be done by one person. It's a one man job.

I think many players will have different opinions on what to keep and what to remove, though. And many players are lost because of the private servers are taking them from SE. So I would recommend SE to give players the ability to start their own "World", hosted by SE, where they can set their own rules, and add basic content. This solution might also work for those who want to play single player or with some friends, they just have to adjust the rules accordingly.

So imagine this:
You log into your Square-Enix Account, then you pay a fee to activate "Custom World". And then you can go and set the rules and add content to the server. You can choose a setup wizard, and/or go advanced for more in depth adjustments.

Rule examples:
Main/subjob melding rules, how stats and levels are put together.
EXP bonus.
Movement speeds.
Drop rates.
Level Caps.
etc.

Content Examples:
Make, add, remove or adjust abilities and traits. (Simply make abilities from a set of drop-down menus).
Make, add, remove or adjust magic.
Adjust stats on gear.
Adjust magic potency.
Make simple quests.
Add NPC's and shops.
remove NPC's.
Make new jobs.
Make, add, remove or adjust items.
etc.

Once this is done, you can choose if it's a "Private world", only accessible for you and your friends. Or a "Public world" for everyone to join, who will be able to select the World when they create a new character or if world transfer is requested.
When undergoing a World transfer, you will have to pay a fee as usual. But what does not exist in the new world will not be available, untill you transfer back to the original World or to a world that has the same rule(s).

This might take a bit more resources from SE, but I wouldn't overstate that. You leave the game changing to the players, SE will just provide the ability to do so. I think the option to make a Custom world would make the game appeal to more players.

I hope SE will do this, and it would be a selling point if they announced a graphics refresh to breathe new life into the game, and at the same time announce the Custom World feature.

I think it might be alot of fun. I hope you agree.

[Alhanelem]

Funny enough Star Trek Online (and another game from the same studio) both featured a custom content component (essentially, moddable MMOs, within limits- you could create custom adventures which other players could search for and play, with rewards and everything using almost any of the game's assets), but those features were eventually removed because it was too difficult to both update the game while maintaining support for the custom adventure features. So clearly, it was a significant undertaking to maintain support for that feature, which is essentially what you were describing.

But I stand by my opinion that FFXI gives you plenty of ways to play your way, and a "classic server" is unnecessary. A server frozen in a particular point of time has limited appeal because it will eventually get boring with no updates, and as mentioned multiple times in the past, you'll lose out on many of the quality of life improvements made since whatever bygone day you liked best; and as noted, if you really want that, private servers are a thing (that aren't supposed to be a thing, but there's no denying they are a thing).

[Vanisher]

Funny enough Star Trek Online (and another game from the same studio) both featured a custom content component (essentially, moddable MMOs, within limits- you could create custom adventures which other players could search for and play, with rewards and everything using almost any of the game's assets), but those features were eventually removed because it was too difficult to both update the game while maintaining support for the custom adventure features. So clearly, it was a significant undertaking to maintain support for that feature, which is essentially what you were describing.

But I stand by my opinion that FFXI gives you plenty of ways to play your way, and a "classic server" is unnecessary. A server frozen in a particular point of time has limited appeal because it will eventually get boring with no updates, and as mentioned multiple times in the past, you'll lose out on many of the quality of life improvements made since whatever bygone day you liked best; and as noted, if you really want that, private servers are a thing (that aren't supposed to be a thing, but there's no denying they are a thing).

That depends on how it's implemented. It would be easy to implement updates to the custom worlds I've talked about. It would be up to each Custom World holder to enable the new updates or keep the old settings. So updates for a custom world will be available if they are wanted on the Custom World. I also mentioned that the server holder would be able to add custom content and items, so it wouldn't be without updates. This would in all make private servers less of a thing, and SE would keep the support they need to keep the game running.

[Alhanelem]

That depends on how it's implemented. It would be easy to implement updates to the custom worlds I've talked about. It would be up to each Custom World holder to enable the new updates or keep the old settings. So updates for a custom world will be available if they are wanted on the Custom World. I also mentioned that the server holder would be able to add custom content and items, so it wouldn't be without updates. This would in all make private servers less of a thing, and SE would keep the support they need to keep the game running.

It can't get updates because it wouldn't be classic anymore. Everyone keeps citing a particular time they'd like to go back to. But it can't stay that way AND get updates.

And frankly, when you realize all the nice things the current game has, even if you don't like level 99 or item level, When you go to a server on an old version of the game and realize how much you depended on those features, the old version becomes a lot less appealing.

[Alhanelem]

Couldn't SE just let us set our levels to anything and be done with it. I mean then we wouldn't need a Classic Server. :cool:
I keep saying this. Idk why tehy dont allow that. maybe they think it would be too abuseable in some way that I don't understand, idk.

[Vanisher]

It can't get updates because it wouldn't be classic anymore. Everyone keeps citing a particular time they'd like to go back to. But it can't stay that way AND get updates.

And frankly, when you realize all the nice things the current game has, even if you don't like level 99 or item level, When you go to a server on an old version of the game and realize how much you depended on those features, the old version becomes a lot less appealing.

I'm talking about Custom worlds, not a classic server. A potential outcome of a Custom World however, can be a classic server. Or it can be a default server with additional content. My point is, that you can start a Custom World and add/remove content to your liking. But the original game will allways be the default. It's a more flexible solution than just having a classic server option.

But I don't see the problem if people want to play without updates. If some players don't like it anymore, they can just do a world transfer. I play ES Oblivion to this day, and it hasn't had updates for a long time. Each to his/her own.

Personally I like the grinding, and struggle to level jobs and group together to do missions or BCNM's etc. It makes more sense, and makes the small things very rewarding. A form of classic server, would make more sense to me. But that's me, and I might not be alone.

[Alhanelem]

I'm talking about Custom worlds, not a classic server. A potential outcome of a Custom World however, can be a classic server. Or it can be a default server with additional content. My point is, that you can start a Custom World and add/remove content to your liking. But the original game will allways be the default. It's a more flexible solution than just having a classic server option.

But I don't see the problem if people want to play without updates. If some players don't like it anymore, they can just do a world transfer. I play ES Oblivion to this day, and it hasn't had updates for a long time. Each to his/her own.

Personally I like the grinding, and struggle to level jobs and group together to do missions or BCNM's etc. It makes more sense, and makes the small things very rewarding. A form of classic server, would make more sense to me. But that's me, and I might not be alone.
I covered this before, with STO and other MMOs actually having a whole system for custom content- but it became too burdensome over time as every time they updated the game, they had to go through all the old stuff as well as the new to make sure it all stayed compatible. It is a big undertaking to allow large scale customization of an MMO, and it's a challenge that has been taken up before, but ultimately was removed from those games because it made updating the game a lot more difficult.

(And those systems were detailed, too, you could set the stage with any area you want, spawn any enemies you want, with scripting and such, and still allow rewards and EXP to be gained, etc. You could place almost any assets from within the game into the area, enable and disable classes, abilities, etc- it was really cool)

To a certain extent, I love grinding too, and if you think there's less grind in the game now, you'd be mistaken. They dramatically accelerated the level up process, yes, but all the grinding for gear, earning job points, etc takes longer than leveling up plus earning all your merit points did before- Reaching lv99 and getting Master status takes longer than 1-75 + merits did.

[Vanisher]

I covered this before, with STO and other MMOs actually having a whole system for custom content- but it became too burdensome over time as every time they updated the game, they had to go through all the old stuff as well as the new to make sure it all stayed compatible. It is a big undertaking to allow large scale customization of an MMO, and it's a challenge that has been taken up before, but ultimately was removed from those games because it made updating the game a lot more difficult.

(And those systems were detailed, too, you could set the stage with any area you want, spawn any enemies you want, with scripting and such, and still allow rewards and EXP to be gained, etc. You could place almost any assets from within the game into the area, enable and disable classes, abilities, etc- it was really cool)

To a certain extent, I love grinding too, and if you think there's less grind in the game now, you'd be mistaken. They dramatically accelerated the level up process, yes, but all the grinding for gear, earning job points, etc takes longer than leveling up plus earning all your merit points did before- Reaching lv99 and getting Master status takes longer than 1-75 + merits did.

As I've stated before. It depends on how it's implemented. I think what I'm suggesting would work. It doesn't matter what other game it didn't work with, it has nothing to do with FFXI. The existence of the Private servers proves my point, and it can be implemented in an even better way if done by SE.

I do play the game now, and I know what you mean about grinding at 99+. But the grinding between 1 and 99 is kind of pointless now, and that's where the "Custom server" comes in. Some enjoy that particular grinding. That's what I mean.

[Hercule]

Join the force SE :)

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/05/wow-classic-announces-testing-schedule-full-launch-on-august-27/

https://www.pcgamesn.com/world-of-warcraft/wow-classic-stress-tests

YOUR TURN ! :)

[Pixela]

Join the force SE :)

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/05/wow-classic-announces-testing-schedule-full-launch-on-august-27/

https://www.pcgamesn.com/world-of-warcraft/wow-classic-stress-tests

YOUR TURN ! :)

Wow has 3-4 million players, ffxi has 30-40k. We are lucky it's still running and being supported.

All things considered there is really no reason to ask for this, the game already functions as a "classic" server if you want it to be. You don't have to do level cap quests, you don't have to unlock trusts. Make a linkshell with likeminded people?

[Alhanelem]

Wow has 3-4 million players, ffxi has 30-40k. We are lucky it's still running and being supported.

All things considered there is really no reason to ask for this, the game already functions as a "classic" server if you want it to be. You don't have to do level cap quests, you don't have to unlock trusts. Make a linkshell with likeminded people?There's a couple factors at work here. The first is SE probably doesn't want a mainline Final Fantasy game to ever be rendered unplayable (legally), and the other is it really doesn't take that many players for it to be profitable (but of course it does limit the number of staff that can be on the project).

[Zehira]

Maybe just reconsider a new expansion for the players who want an old school experience.

[Pixela]

FFXI classic

Don't activate trusts.
Don't do any rhapsodies missions.
Don't do any level cap quests above 75.

Almost nothing has actually changed in ffxi, you can still kill kirin as a linkshell at 75 (there is a 75 cap linkshell on asura), you can still level in groups.

The issue actually is you can't get people to play that way

[CrAZYVIC]

After square enix saw Classic-Wow BETA break the internet even was the #1 on twitch for a day. Im sure they will release a FFXI classic server. TERA already is working on that LOL

I dont miss the "Lving process on FFXI" or the horrible limit break quests but i really miss the end game: Sky, Sea, einherjar, dynamis, limbus, KSNM99 the merit parties. You had a great variety of end game content and obtaining gear felt a lot more special.

There are a lot of stuff i love of the "RETAIL FFXI" the idea you can farm ur own ultimate weapons, the idea you can get lv 99 alone, the idea with certain jobs + trusts you can solo 75% of the escha/reinsejima mobs etc.

But i like the idea of a classic server until WoTG expansion to be honest. This server will stay forever on that expansion and square enix do not have provide any extra content affecting the updates of Retail. Just pay the electric bill every month :D

[Stuzey]

I don't think a classic server is even possible? It's a PS2 game, ported to a PC, think of all that original code they would have to go over, they would need PS2 dev kits, which they have said are in short supply. It's just not as simple as WOW.

[Nyarlko]

The devs have already flat out said this is never happening.. Why won't this stupid idea die?

[Pixela]

Here is what will happen if Square made a classic server:

The game would become unprofitable and would close in a couple of years.

They would have to split resources between two versions of the game when it's only JUST able to be profitable as it is. It would mean less updates for the main version of FFXI, to work on a "classic server" and that would cause people again to unsub from the main version due to lack of content. The game already has a skeleton crew working on it, and they are supposed to stretch even thinner?

There is no mass army of people who want to play classic, it's really that simple. I'm on Asura, there are no people wanting to do old-school XP, if there were they would be shouting right now. Wow has 3-4 million subscribers, if only 1% of them want classic it's worth doing. That's not the case here.

This is like to getting a health scare from your doctor and then wanting to take on a 2nd mortgage on a new house the next day. We only recently got the all clear that Square want to keep FFXI running as long as possible now we goto this nonsense?

Wow can afford this, and wow has a reason to have a changed version (ffxi right now IS clasic if you don't do level cap quests and don't get trusts), FFXI DOES NOT.

https://gamerescape.com/2019/05/23/the-future-of-ffxi-famitsu-interview-with-akihiko-matsui-and-yoji-fujito/

[Sirmarki]

Why a "server"?

Personally, this is not something that interests me, however...

An opt in "mode" could be added into the current game and servers, kind of like an enhanced level sync system. This would offer that player, under that "status" a classic experience.

That would be a lot 'easier' to implement.

In Layman's Terms, a hypothetical situation:
Player on Asura speaks to a designated NPC;
Player is now in "Classic mode", and has a little icon above their head;
All content which existed in 'whatever is considered/established as classic' can ONLY be accessed, no 'modern content' can be accessed. EXP with this special status is limited to what it was in 'classic times'.
No need for additional servers, no need for paying attention to one 'classic server'.

[BST]

You can already play classically, start a new character and follow the old road to Lv75 without doing newer content for EXP bonuses, trusts and whatnot, just don't uncap your level, you could unlock trust just because you wont find enough willing party members to continue the extremely slow classic EXP way to Lv75. And when you get there, then what?


All they need to do is add new content in some shape or form to keep the game going.

[Alhanelem]

Why a "server"?

Personally, this is not something that interests me, however...

An opt in "mode" could be added into the current game and servers, kind of like an enhanced level sync system. This would offer that player, under that "status" a classic experience.

That would be a lot 'easier' to implement.

In Layman's Terms, a hypothetical situation:
Player on Asura speaks to a designated NPC;
Player is now in "Classic mode", and has a little icon above their head;
All content which existed in 'whatever is considered/established as classic' can ONLY be accessed, no 'modern content' can be accessed. EXP with this special status is limited to what it was in 'classic times'.
No need for additional servers, no need for paying attention to one 'classic server'.

It's been suggested many times- a simple feature that would allow you to arbitrarily level cap yourself without needing another person at the level you want to sync to would make it a lot easier for people to experience any content at its original level of difficulty and with the appropriate skills/gear for the time.

We already have level sync and also a level restriction status, so the back end mechanics for such a thing already exist. All we need is the ability to have these things whenever we want to have them. I honestly have no idea why we don't already have this kind of functionality. No special server would be needed.

[Questaru]

Please release 75 cap classic server SE, thx !!

[Alhanelem]

technically a classic server would be 50 cap, because it wasnt 75 until some time after rise of the zilart came out.

But no thanks. It wouldn't work well for this game because of how absurdly grindy it is compared to any other MMO, even classic WoW, and its just not famous enough. And I like the current game and wouldn't want even a small number of players to be taken from it. Besides, it was the community aspect that made the game more fun than it probably should have been, swapping stories and stuff in your 6 man EXP parties (something that basically no MMO has anymore) while you beat up on crab after crab and mandy after mandy. Unless it was massively successful beyond your wildest dreams, that community aspect just wouldn't be restored. Plus we've all beaten all the content before so it wouldn't be the same.

Funny enough in WoW classic there's a shocking number of people turbo burning through the content as fast as possible, not realizing it's not going to get any further updates once they reach the patch before burning crusade. So it's going to be a novelty that will wear off once it stagnates.

[Kalimairo]

I don't think a classic server is even possible? It's a PS2 game, ported to a PC, think of all that original code they would have to go over, they would need PS2 dev kits, which they have said are in short supply. It's just not as simple as WOW.

how is it not possible when there are 2 private servers emulating it already 1 with 500-700 and the other peaks 800-1.2k?

i would honestly pay 30 dollars a month for a classic server.

[Kalimairo]

Well, as you say there are risks but its something I think should be tried anyway. If it doesn't work, whats the worst that could happen? They shut the classic server down and ppl go back to the current ones. Personally though, I think theres a lot of potential for this to work, as there being only 1 server there would likely be a few people from all the current servers that swap over and I think we would even draw in some returning players who long for the old school ways. As for the level sync, while I was not a fan of it when it was added I think it should stick for this classic server on your point actually that we may have fewer players there so having tools like that may be needed. I think that still supports the classic but makes it approachable with lesser means which is more mandatory now than when it was originally added.

Its easy you keep Level sync, But everything is the same and u slowly add content by year, Maybe Rise of zilart for 2 years ( NO ORIGINAL 50), COP for 2 and TOAU 2/ WOTG (STOPS) PRE abyssea. (i prefer no WOTG) Dancers and scholars ruined the game ok bye.

[Kalimairo]

They wont do it for 2 reasons:

1- It will cost them time and won't get any money for that

2- It will split an already low game population which will be VERY bad for the standard game

it wont split the game there i said there is already 2400 players playing in private servers, Just adding one P server is enough and make it subscription and not linked with the live version.

[Alhanelem]

it wont split the game there i said there is already 2400 players playing in private servers, Just adding one P server is enough and make it subscription and not linked with the live version.
it will split the game. I mean, it's *already* split with the private servers that aren't even legal. How many of those are even going to be willing to pay to play something they're already illegally playing for free? Not too many I'd wager.


The game doesn't have a big enough community to be split up with different server types. It's healthy enough for SE to continue to maintain it with updates, but it's not a big game. Even at its peak, FFXI was far from the biggest MMO in the sea. WloW is big enough to pull this off, FFXI isn't.

[Seish]

I don't agree with that and the fact this is continuing shows the want for something more classic. Just send C&D's to those servers and reign in the players who want more. Those that play on private servers will return to a classic and those who want both a classic and current can still do so. Seeing how alive this thread is goes to show the need for this to be looked into--and the discord between both sides--will help better understand the interest.

[Seish]

how is it not possible when there are 2 private servers emulating it already 1 with 500-700 and the other peaks 800-1.2k?

i would honestly pay 30 dollars a month for a classic server.

Truth. I've said in detail what everyone has. And the fact this is brought up again demands attention from the Devs--especially after how successful WOW classic is.

[Alhanelem]

I don't agree with that and the fact this is continuing shows the want for something more classic. Just send C&D's to those servers and reign in the players who want more. Those that play on private servers will return to a classic and those who want both a classic and current can still do so. Seeing how alive this thread is goes to show the need for this to be looked into--and the discord between both sides--will help better understand the interest.

A couple people on a barely-posted-on official forum doesn't show much of anything. The skeleton crew keeping this game running doesn't have the resources to develop a classic server, again nobody can really agree when classic is, and the game is too small (it was too small even at its biggest point) for it to be financially worth. All of the games that have done classic servers were far and away bigger than FFXI ever was and thus had big enough playerbases that the community split wouldn't significantly damage either side.

The number of people playing on illegal servers shows more, but again, most people already playing for free aren't going to want to pay up to do something they're already doing.

The point is also moot because this idea was essentially rejected by SE quite a while back. It is not going to happen, no matter how much you bump this thread.

[Alhanelem]

Truth. I've said in detail what everyone has. And the fact this is brought up again demands attention from the Devs--especially after how successful WOW classic is.

Again, WoW is a massive game compared to FFXI, even at its peak. even 5-10% of their playerbase wanting to play vanilla is a large number of people compared to FFXI, so the risk-reward ratio was good or them.. FFXI does not have the base to back something like this. It will not be revisited by the devs, it was already shot down a long time ago.

That aside from the fact that whle classic serervers pull a nice crowd draw ehen they come out, those players dry up when they realize there won't be any updates, after they've already done everything to death.

[Seish]

Not really no. Your latter post contradicts the former. This game already has the hardware support, as it was a dev outspoken requirement if this game would be supported to 2021. Now that they have it, no hardware limitations that would have existed are no longer a constraint. They have all the resources there for it and without cost. As far as the fracturing that you keep venturing into, that's not valid either. Players can have both a 99 character and a classic one. If anything, that's an extra dollar for current players in SE's pocket on top of the 13 dollars a month for every returning character.

As far as it fizzling away is concerned, Ninja said that if a classic FFXI were released he'd play it 17 hours a day in a tweet a year ago with a plethora of likes and replies supporting his comment. And we know whatever Ninja does or goes, his huge following will follow. So it seems to me there is this opportunity and more so if SE were to sponsor this man to play. Now, I will then get into your last point that this game is stagnant on player growth and unless something drastic is done we will not be able to continue unless something is done. And while content may be a concern--though we won't know til after proposed classic comes out--the greater concern is to give fans of the game what they want and to increase revenue. That way, both classic players and current players like us will be able to enjoy it.

[Alhanelem]

Not really no. Your latter post contradicts the former. This game already has the hardware support, as it was a dev outspoken requirement if this game would be supported to 2021. Now that they have it, no hardware limitations that would have existed are no longer a constraint. They have all the resources there for it and without cost. As far as the fracturing that you keep venturing into, that's not valid either. Players can have both a 99 character and a classic one. If anything, that's an extra dollar for current players in SE's pocket on top of the 13 dollars a month for every returning character.
This paragraph is a bunch of gibberish. Best I can tell, You seem to be living in a fantasy world where there would be no cost associated with developing a special version of the game for special people with special desires. They do not have old verisons of the game on file (at least not all the way back). They'd basically have to take the current version of the game and strip out features and rework things. There is a development cost and it requires resources they don't have, as all of those resources are being used to further the current game and give *current* fans what they want (at least sometimes...) over giving people who played the game once upon a time something they THINK they want (and I know this from people i've known to play classic versions of MMOs t hat are out there- a game frozen in time that doesn't get updates just doesn't have the longevity to keep those players indefinitely- one of the reasons I chose NOT to try WoW Classic, aside from the fact that I had specific reasons for wanting to and one of those reasons was NOT grinding up to level 60 again).

This concept isn't something that can be made to just magically appear to magically create more $. It requires time and development that would have to be taken away from the current game and what loyal following it currently has. And you can be sure there are players here today that would not be happy with the proposition of a "classic" server coming at their expense.

This is al aside the fact that you don't really need anything special under the definition of "classic" I hear most often among friends, which is simply pre-abyssea or pre-Wings. All you have to do to get that is start a new character, grind with like-minded friends, and not complete the 75->80 cap quest. you'll be capped at 75 doing things a 75 is capable of doing, and not a lot of that has changed other than Dynamis and some higher level monsters being plugged into some older areas. You don't need a special server, you can use level sync to let others less committed to the idea play with you, etc. FFXI even today gives you plenty of tools to play the way you want to play. And if you hate modern QOL features, well just don't use the home points to teleport and don't use the new mounts.

[Seish]

I will work backwords with your comments as that is the best way to make sense of your weak and incohesive argument. The aspect of lv sync at 75 rrequires that one of the jobs are 75 to begin with. I am sure you are aware of this. Bundle that with the lack of HNM's, JA behavior, Job adjustments, food adjustements, armor augmentation, as well as HNM and NM behavior adjustments make what you say impossible. While in theory you can sync, not many players are at lv75. You are missing that this game isn't just about banding with friends and doing old lv75 content as you'd like. It's about the journey there and the challenge. Current retail does not allow for this challenging journey for many players and which is why trying to do it on a current server to be impossible as people would remember it. Not because it's impossible theoretically, anyone that still has a 75 job could get a lv sync. Rather, it's the way the game is now and how the jobs are adjusted. There are too many changes to players that would prevent that.

You've said in other posts about splitting the community and I've stressed that it wasn't. I've also pointed out, with you conceeding this fact, that you are emotionally tied to the game as it currently is and your current experience--that tie is emotionally clouding your judgment here and it shows. As I've said before, they have the version log history and the origional build of the game exists--which is NOT THE SOURCE CODE. Those are completely different and unrelated things. They have it, unless a Dev or a moderator comments otherwise, it's fair to assume they have the original build. From there, they can go back to a point in time--let's say RoTZ--and start there as that's when most the NA players came on board. Ok cool. Now you mention content, well they continue release content until ToAU and see what happens. All of this, mind you, has already been done. None of this is reinventing the wheel and which is why I made the comment of this not being the source code. If they wanted to redesign the game from scratch while keeping heavy elements of the core itself, then they would be forced to use the source code. This isn't that at all and above all, little manpower in development, if any, would be required. The most expensive part would be to do a study as to how far back this server should go. The servers they already have--if they didn't, we wouldn't be playing now would we ;).

So unless SE says they don't have the original build, I would suggest you stop that argument here and now. The original build IS NOT THE SAME AS SOURCE CODE. As you said in a previous thread you have mistaken the original build for the source code prior to me educating you the romor dealt with the source code and listed examples as to what that meant. But even you conceeded that you said it was heresay and something you couldn't verify prior to continuing that argument. But let's say that article of the source code was correct, it wouldn't matter because the original build is not source code. If you want to learn more, I'd suggest googling what source code is.

Now that we got that out of the way, there is absolutely no reason why they couldn't. And trying to equate to what someone could do in current retail won't play out quite the same as how the game was "In Era". Now I suggest unless you have some more information about this, such as an article that actually says SE lost the builds too--which I doubt with version control that would ever happen--then everything excluding dividing the community lays flat. But seeing the post above hasn't addressed that after I addressed it prior, I guess you conceded this fact? But if you have not, I repropose my example of Ninja and his following eager to play a classic FFXI. Or those that play in private servers itching for something more. There is a market and you cannot deny it. And this gets to your last point about limited resources. While you state that, having a classic server would only generate revenue. Even you said there would be a short following and interest in the post prior to my last one. So a game that is stagnant couldn't hurt getting the resources it needs. If there's an interest, why not capitalize on it? With what I read so far, you have not clearly shown me where significant resources would be required to create a classic server.

But better yet, and as I've said in another thread to you and others, is that it keeps being brought up BECAUSE there is a necessity for it. Just because you do not see a need doesn't mean others don't. I am sure at the end of the day though, you won't change your opinion. But unless it's something substantial, you shouldn't flaunt it around as fact. This thread is proof that the discourse between both positions on a classic server is not only alive, but something to consider.

[Pixela]

They are never going to add a classic server, they are battling to keep the current servers around as it is.

[Seish]

You say that, but that's a conjecture.

[Alhanelem]

You say that, but that's a conjecture.
The same is true for the classic server arguments.

The only real argument you have, and it isn't even a good one, is "WoW did it, so FFXI can too!"

WoW achieved far wider mass market appeal and even the fraction of players on WoW classic vs the main game is larger than all of FFXI. You need to learn something about economies of scale to realize that a certain volume of users is required for it to be viable, and WoW easily has enough, but FFXI simply does not.

[Seish]

The same is true for the classic server arguments.

So far, every point you bring I have an answer for. While it's a conjecture what I am saying, there is substance to the argument.

[Alhanelem]

So far, every point you bring I have an answer for. While it's a conjecture what I am saying, there is substance to the argument.So far, every one of your answers has been illogical and not based on anything other than your own opinion.

(and you basically debunked your own argument by admitting to the conjecture)

[Seish]

So far, every one of your answers has been illogical and not based on anything other than your own opinion.

When one loses an argument, they resort to these tactics. But this is also coming from the person who cannot tell the difference between version build and source code. That was the fundamental component of one of your main arguments--if not your main selling point to yours. I've addressed your points, you have no leg to stand on other than how you personally feel about it. But that alone isn't enough.

Edit: When I quoted you, it was at that time the full comment. I see you have added it prior to my post not showing the edit history.

[Alhanelem]

When one loses an argument, they resort to these tactics. But this is also coming from the person who cannot tell the difference between version build and source code. That was the fundamental component of one of your main arguments--if not your main selling point to yours. I've addressed your points, you have no leg to stand on other than how you personally feel about it. But that alone isn't enough.
When people talk about "winning" or "losing" arguments, they resort to your tactics.

I don't care about winning or losing. I'm just giving my opinion (and watching you embarass yourself <3)

I've given perfectly rational and reasonable statements based on logic and observation. I'm not claiming anything as direct fact, merely my opinion, but that opinion is based on knowledge of economics, my understanding of the playerbase for the games we're discussing, etc.

Your argument has been the entire time, "It worked for somebody else so it must work for SE too."

[Seish]

I was thinking it was a normal discussion til you make those snarky comments like that. Keep it up. It doesn't make you look good. Else you may be banned from this forum too like the XIV forum.

[Alhanelem]

I was thinking it was a normal discussion til you make those snarky comments like that. Keep it up. It doesn't make you look good. Else you may be banned from these forums too.
SE doesn't ban people for giving opinions. I haven't broken any rules or done anything wrong, while what you're doing could be construed as a personal attack.

(And personal attacks in an argument are what's known as the Straw Man fallacy.)

[Seish]

Hey if you really cared about the discussion, you would address those points. If not, and if you have nothing significant and of quality substance to say, then it is probrably best to let this go. Because all it's going to do is wind you up.

Edit: Nice cleanup of that post you made to mask that snarky comment.

Edit 2: No, strawman fallacy is the fallacy to make a second argument to deviate from an argument. Ad hominem is the the fallacy you are thinking about.

[Alhanelem]

Hey if you really cared about the discussion, you would address those points. If not, and if you have nothing significant and of quality substance to say, then it is probrably best to let this go. Because all it's going to do is wind you up.

I have addressed the points, while you continue to instantly reply to my posts with straw mans. I'm not going to keep retyping what I've already wrote and you ignored. I'm going to go ahead and let you keep doing whatever it is you think you're doing.

Attacking the Person / AKA Ad hominiem AKA Straw Man (https://www.txstate.edu/philosophy/resources/fallacy-definitions/Ad-Hominem.html)
You are splitting hairs- while these aren't all exactly the same thing, they all relate to arguments based on characteristics of the person postulating the statement you disagree with. Choose your flavor of bad argument behavior, and call ti whatever you want, it doesn't make your behavior any less fallacious.

[Seish]

Again, you are using the wrong terminology. But even then, if you actually were not making a fallacious argument, you would direct all comments to the argument. What you are doing is both strawman and ad hominem.

EDIT: They're different and exist independently. As to why my argument is centralized to your claim and not a straw man you ask? Well, that's very simple. I went, paragraph by paragraph broke down every single argument you made and showed the flaw in each point to have a meaningful discussion. I didn't create a tangential argument. Nor did I create a lifeless argument to detract from the main argument either. I stuck my guns to that argument. And my arguments were only with relation to the substance, or lack thereof, to the claims you presented me.

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=Z6zmXYa3MoOusAWK9ZXYCw&q=straw+man+fallacy+vs+ad+hominem&oq=straw+man+fallacy+v+&gs_l=psy-ab.3.1.0i22i30l2j0i22i10i30j0i333l4.4904.12541..14397...5.0..0.182.2700.19j8......0....1..gws-wiz.....6..0j0i131j0i362i308i154i357..10001%3A0%2C154.aZ_34nB0Sio

[Seish]

If you have ANYTHING to say about why it won't work, please for simplistic sake, quote my detailed and long post and dissect. Or at the very least, summarize the points I am making and why it is invalid. That way, we can avoid any further deviance to this argument. Because I am trying to get us back on the train track.

[Hercule]

Up,

Dear SE, durring this confinement I see alot of players returning on Worl Of Warcraft Classic servers, enjoying to see back old friends that come back with them and getting so many nostalgia feeling, I enjoy them, but I never played WoW, I would dream to getting that on FFXI, I just ask you to get 1 Classic Lv75 server, why not give a try???????

Thanks for your attention.

[Alhanelem]

You can make your own lv75 classic server by not completing the level 80 limit break and using level sync if you want to play with others. FFXI does not need a "classic server," and doing so would divert resources from updating the current game for its current playerbase, which are in short supply.

It's also important to point out that wow classic is frozen in time which means it won't ever go past vanilla WoW and thus will become stagnant after a while. It's also still not the same as actually playing the game back in the day when it came out, as the community is not the same, and it's half of what makes any MMO what it is. And just because WoW and Everquest got something out of doing it doesn't mean it will work for everyone that tries it.

There are of course illegal private servers out there if you want to put your trust in unknown third parties modifying things in the game and doing who knows what with the data you send them.

Just stop digging up this old thread. SE themselves have stated in the past that this isn't going to happen.

[Alhanelem]

Oh, btw, to really and truly put this to bed once and for all, Gamer Escape asked about this in an email interview of sorts (was among the things supposed to happen at pax): https://gamerescape.com/2020/04/10/11-questions-for-the-final-fantasy-xi-dev-team/


Gamer Escape: With the launch of World of Warcraft Classic, there has been talk of having classic servers for other games. We’re curious about your thoughts on having a classic server for FINAL FANTASY XI where maybe the level cap is at 75?
Akihiko Matsui: Truth be told, we have no snapshot data of the level 75 era, which would make it very difficult to replicate things as they were back then on this type of server.
Yoji Fujito: As things stand today, we are unable to meet these requests, simply from a version management perspective. If the goal was simply to limit level growth to level 75, that is something that could be done in theory, but we would be unable to provide any changes on top of merely adjusting the level cap and do not have the ability to provide any support for it with our current bandwidth.
Furthermore, it goes against our company philosophy to just toss something out there and say “Here, have fun!” without giving it the due care that our fans would rightfully expect, so a level 75 server it isn’t in the cards at present.

[TullemoreAsuraFFXI]

The One thing that could be considered is for programming to be adjusted to allow for a level sync to go across a full 18-man alliance.

[Ilisidi]

If they are touching alliance mechanics, I'd prefer they try to solve the alliances and trusts issue.