[dev1231] New Battle Content: Incursion! (I know it's just been announced)

[Kavik]

Dear Dev Team,

I'm sure you have already thought of this because it seems to be on your mind a lot, but I just want to make sure..


Joining the Fray
Challengers can test their mettle against the Velkk by examining the Weathered Canvas in Marjami Ravine (I-11) once all party and alliance members possess velkk fetishes. These fetishes can be procured from the corpses of Velkk skulking about the ravine.

If every person needs to kill an untold number of Velkk (lets assume 5-10) to get this key item. Velkk will cease to exist in Marjami Ravine and we will be hunting them like the HNMs of yesteryear. In short, there will be a lot of congestion. Is there any plan, such as the whole group receiving the key item if one person obtains it to address this situation?

[Donquichot]

You can expect no Velkk to be alive on the first weeks of this content. Its gonig to 1 big claim fest getting the fetishes to enter this event even...

What im more afraid of is this quote:


Fulfilling certain prerequisites and reattempting the battle will further increase the difficulty of the monsters appearing within, providing a level of challenge that surpasses even the most frightening of Delve content

At this moment many jobs arent balanced well enough for Delve II. Now without fixing these problems they are adding up the stats on the mobs. Can they please STOP adding content 50% of the people in the game cant even play? This will only further the MNK+SAM strats and leave almost all other damage dealing jobs out of this event..

[Draylo]

What I'm annoyed with is this,


Monster HP within Incursion will increase proportionally for each player over six.

This means don't go with more than 6 or you are being inefficient. STOP doing this and not adjusting drops accordingly! I bet CP won't even scale for each person after 6, so you are gimped even further the more people you bring.

[Shirai]

What I'm annoyed with is this,



This means don't go with more than 6 or you are being inefficient. STOP doing this and not adjusting drops accordingly! I bet CP won't even scale for each person after 6, so you are gimped even further the more people you bring.

^
My linkshell and I are just as annoyed by this for the exact same reasons.
If you are going to scale difficulty by the amount of people entering please also make it more rewarding by adding more exclusive rewards or upping the droprate accordingly.

[Bebekeke]

What I'm annoyed with is this,



This means don't go with more than 6 or you are being inefficient. STOP doing this and not adjusting drops accordingly! I bet CP won't even scale for each person after 6, so you are gimped even further the more people you bring.

Not necessarily.

If HP before requires 2 WS to kill a mob, and HP after adding another 3 players just requires 2 WS and the skillchain to kill a mob... can you see what you need to do here???

And adding 50% HP to the boss isn't the end of the world if it means you can reduce it's eva/magic eva/att/def etc by adding specific jobs so that you can actually kill it faster.

[Shirai]

If only it was that ballanced...

Delve right now is a good example why it is a bad idea to take in more than 8~10 people and is most efficiently run with 6.
Not only does HP not scale proportionately, with more people pounding on a single mob its TP gain also skyrockets making fights considerably harder than they should be.

There is a reason why people want to only take rangers to certain fights these days.

[Xerius]

^
If you are going to scale difficulty by the amount of people entering please also make it more rewarding by adding more exclusive rewards or upping the droprate accordingly.

"My linkshell is bigger we deserve better rewards." Drop rates I agree the more people that come (assuming difficulty is scaled) the more items should drop. However, I'm sorry but you and your linkshell don't deserve better rewards just because you brought people. The reason these things scale is because the meta-game is more geared towards pick-up groups now because of dwindling server numbers and the huge divide between the Japanese and English-speaking player base.

[Grekumah]

As long as the party leader or alliance leader is in possession of a Velkk Fetish everyone will be able to access Incursion. There is no need for the whole party to possess the item.

[Rhonda]

At this moment many jobs arent balanced well enough for Delve II. Now without fixing these problems they are adding up the stats on the mobs. Can they please STOP adding content 50% of the people in the game cant even play? This will only further the MNK+SAM strats and leave almost all other damage dealing jobs out of this event..I know how you feel, my SMN and THF are basically useless, but game balance is being worked on. Note that there are adjustments in this very patch for DRG and some other non-DRG jobs that people also don't care about. One thing many more people care about is the addition of new challenging content. It seems SE is working to appeal to everyone.


"My linkshell is bigger we deserve better rewards." Drop rates I agree the more people that come (assuming difficulty is scaled) the more items should drop. However, I'm sorry but you and your linkshell don't deserve better rewards just because you brought people. The reason these things scale is because the meta-game is more geared towards pick-up groups now because of dwindling server numbers and the huge divide between the Japanese and English-speaking player base.A six-man group will include jobs like RDM, DNC, etc., almost never. If adding more people lead to better drops, there's opportunity for more job diversity because you're able to bring more jobs for ancillary functions. SMN for EA (for a move that may be nasty but usually survivable), RDM for debuffs, THF for TH, etc.

[Xerius]

A six-man group will include jobs like RDM, DNC, etc., almost never. If adding more people lead to better drops, there's opportunity for more job diversity because you're able to bring more jobs for ancillary functions. SMN for EA (for a move that may be nasty but usually survivable), RDM for debuffs, THF for TH, etc.

That's great!... for you and your group but the majority of players don't play in a group like yours and rely on small PUG groups and don't pretend that 18 man groups will bring jobs like DNC, PUP or even RDM. MAYBE and I'd like to emphasis how even in an 18 man group it's extremely unlikely, you'll get a mage party. Odds are you'll just see a copy/paste of the same 6-man PUG party just into 3 conjoined parties.

[Draylo]

That is actually untrue, my group always fit random oddball jobs into Delve before they had this ridiculous HP change the more you bring. We even took in random people from shouts and forums that needed clears, now we can't do that anymore.

[Kavik]

As long as the party leader or alliance leader is in possession of a Velkk Fetish everyone will be able to access Incursion. There is no need for the whole party to possess the item.

Thank you for the clarification seeing as the original post that was put up states, "once ALL party and alliance members possess velkk fetishes." I read the statement to my husband (also an ffxi player) and he agreed that it sounded as if every person you invited would have to have one.

I'm sincerely grateful that is not to be the case.

[Bebekeke]

If only it was that ballanced...

Delve right now is a good example why it is a bad idea to take in more than 8~10 people and is most efficiently run with 6.
Not only does HP not scale proportionately, with more people pounding on a single mob its TP gain also skyrockets making fights considerably harder than they should be.

There is a reason why people want to only take rangers to certain fights these days.

Generally all the 'extra' people over and above the 6 are not feeding TP... an extra WHM, a SCH to stun, a RDM and/or GEO to reduce mob stats, a SMN for hate-free spike damage that doesn't give TP to the mob (and usually to swap in for buffs on DD for boss) and then maybe a BRD or COR to refresh/haste them if required.

[NimrodXI]

Useless, totally useless.

Instead SE should bring more content like "Wildskeeper reive" ... why ? Simple... people can join anytime they want with the job they like

[Xerius]

That is actually untrue, my group always fit random oddball jobs into Delve before they had this ridiculous HP change the more you bring. We even took in random people from shouts and forums that needed clears, now we can't do that anymore.

The point is you didn't bring those jobs because you wanted to, you brought those jobs because you decided shouting for another hour isn't worth it. The problem isn't that we need more content that allows more people in so the wildcard jobs get a chance to play, the problem is that we need to fix those jobs so there's a reason to bring them.

[Bebekeke]

Useless, totally useless.

Instead SE should bring more content like "Wildskeeper reive" ... why ? Simple... people can join anytime they want with the job they like

Yeah, just like WoE was.... maybe they should upgrade WoE to be more relevant to current gear levels with better rewards...

[Shirai]

Generally all the 'extra' people over and above the 6 are not feeding TP... an extra WHM, a SCH to stun, a RDM and/or GEO to reduce mob stats, a SMN for hate-free spike damage that doesn't give TP to the mob (and usually to swap in for buffs on DD for boss) and then maybe a BRD or COR to refresh/haste them if required.

Yes, when taking in 8 to 10 people you have the option of having the extras come on support jobs as the HP of the mobs hasn't scaled to proportions where an extra DD is needed to kill them in a timely manner and their buffs/debuffs do compensate for the HP increase.
But taking in anything beyond that number will increase enemy HP in such proportions that you have no other choice than taking in more DDs or you'll spend way too long fighting a single NM.

And I don't have to explain what an extra DD on a mob that already takes longer to kill means.

By the way, you may want to drop the illusion of counting on smn for its DD capabilities.
Compared to real DDs the output of a summoner is peanuts and will only make a marginal difference on your run.
I do agree on its other uses, however. (Personal experience as well)

[Bebekeke]

By the way, you may want to drop the illusion of counting on smn for its DD capabilities.
Compared to real DDs the output of a summoner is peanuts and will only make a marginal difference on your run.
I do agree on its other uses, however. (Personal experience as well)

It's not there to do damage comparable to a DD, but it does deal SOME damage, and that damage doesn't feed TP. It's primarily there for buffs/debuffs of course, but it would be silly to tell the SMN that it's damage is too weak, so stop doing BP rages and just stand there with Cait Sith out, looking pretty lol.

And let's face it, the new mobs will most likely have new abilities/auras or whatever that are unknown so for the first few weeks, most groups are going to take a SMN along for the extra safety of PD under 25%, just in case. Maybe even more than one if they're really bad once you level up a few times.

[Shirai]

*Points at signature*
You're not telling me new things here, summoner is also my little baby and I've been playing it quite a few years already.

However looking at the performance of summoners, it's nothing to write home about.
Overall an average summoner pushes 2~3% and a well geared and skilled summoner might push 7% maybe 8% damage with the use of Astral Conduit, as for buffs and debuffs;
You're better off taking a Red Mage or Geomancer these days.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying summoners are completely useless but there are other choices for most situations.
And yes, I am also aware of our defensive capabilities like EA and PD and our crowd management capabilities as well, and no those aren't always needed either.

[Draylo]

The point is you didn't bring those jobs because you wanted to, you brought those jobs because you decided shouting for another hour isn't worth it. The problem isn't that we need more content that allows more people in so the wildcard jobs get a chance to play, the problem is that we need to fix those jobs so there's a reason to bring them.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you. To correct you though, I do all my runs since the beginning of the event with my linkshell. I was simply saying I put random people in there just for clears or plasm, we usually clear most of those zones with 8~10 people in old Delve. The point is, you can afford random oddball jobs when they don't HURT you. Making HP scale w/o adjust drops makes it so anything more than necessary to win just hurts you in the end.

[Bebekeke]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying summoners are completely useless but there are other choices for most situations.
And yes, I am also aware of our defensive capabilities like EA and PD and our crowd management capabilities as well, and no those aren't always needed either.

I never said they were always needed. I'm simply saying that if you're either: in a PUG that isn't as efficient as a prime LS group of 6, or if you're in an LS group where more than 6 of you want to go, that taking a SMN along isn't a bad option at all.

You may not 'need' to slowga all the mobs that link to the NM, then run off and dismiss the avatar to de-pop them, but it can save you a couple of minutes per NM. If your group isn't perfect, then that might be the difference between a win or loss.

[Shirai]

You may not 'need' to slowga all the mobs that link to the NM, then run off and dismiss the avatar to de-pop them, but it can save you a couple of minutes per NM. If your group isn't perfect, then that might be the difference between a win or loss.

I'll keep using Tidal roar. ;)

[Afania]

I know how you feel, my SMN and THF are basically useless, but game balance is being worked on. Note that there are adjustments in this very patch for DRG and some other non-DRG jobs that people also don't care about. One thing many more people care about is the addition of new challenging content. It seems SE is working to appeal to everyone.

A six-man group will include jobs like RDM, DNC, etc., almost never. If adding more people lead to better drops, there's opportunity for more job diversity because you're able to bring more jobs for ancillary functions. SMN for EA (for a move that may be nasty but usually survivable), RDM for debuffs, THF for TH, etc.

Ppl still don't use RDM.....Whhhhhaaaaa? Which mage job do you use in delve - -

[Xerius]

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you. To correct you though, I do all my runs since the beginning of the event with my linkshell. I was simply saying I put random people in there just for clears or plasm, we usually clear most of those zones with 8~10 people in old Delve. The point is, you can afford random oddball jobs when they don't HURT you. Making HP scale w/o adjust drops makes it so anything more than necessary to win just hurts you in the end.

And I actually completely agree with you as long as we're just talking about exp, merit points or CP, drop rates or even number of drops but this whole idea of 'we can afford to bring more people so we deserve better gear', put quite simply, disgusts me. There should never be a gate between a person and a reward that requires them to have 17+ friends and I know I'm going to get the classic 'it's an MMO you can either socialize or GTFO' argument but the fact remains that not everyone can dedicate the time that larger endgame LSs require or don't enjoy playing with big groups or don't enjoy socializing.

[Rhonda]

Ppl still don't use RDM.....Whhhhhaaaaa? Which mage job do you use in delve - -WHM, BRD, GEO, and COR cover support for me in Delve, typically. Working in RDM in place of something else for things like stunning or nuking isn't impossible but it's usually contingent on no GEO, COR, SCH, etc., being present. Admittedly, our LS doesn't have that many RDM but when they come along it's usually as something other than RDM.

[Afania]

WHM, BRD, GEO, and COR cover support for me in Delve, typically. Working in RDM in place of something else for things like stunning or nuking isn't impossible but it's usually contingent on no GEO, COR, SCH, etc., being present. Admittedly, our LS doesn't have that many RDM but when they come along it's usually as something other than RDM.


RDM is a better choice for stunner than SCH though, SCH only offer regen V and TP regain in delve1, RDM offers haste2 and dia3.

With haste2 and eva down you can adjust BRD buffs for more attack.

You don't NEED RDM in delve but it certainly provides more performance increase than many other jobs. I really don't understand why ppl continue to act as if RDM is bad here over and over even after RDM buff months ago.