[dev1229] 6 new BST jugs. No stats or abilities mentioned ..

[ZoMBie343]

I noticed that SE did not mention any details with respect to the 6 new BST jugs in September.

These new pets look very, very ordinary....but you neglected to share any stats or abilities with us.

I hope that is because their stats are just too good to mention....right?....please? :(

[WoW]

This is my guess

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Panzer_Galahad

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Nursery_Nazuna

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Turbid_Toloi

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Gooey_Gerard

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Discreet_Louise

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Audacious_Anna

Should have been

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Unusual_Scolopendrid_%28MON%29

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Opo-opo_%28MON%29

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Limascabra_%28MON%29

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Pygmy_Sandworm_%28MON%29

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Snapweed

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Wivre_%28MON%29

Or at least;

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Gamboge_Beetle_%28MON%29

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Bedraggled_Lucerewe

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Porter_Crab_%28MON%29

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Slug_%28MON%29

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Coppercap_%28MON%29

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Vermilion_Raptor_%28MON%29

[dasva]

If I'm not mistaken there are no subspecies of slugs... as far as keeping with those eco systems the top monsters I'd have liked to see as compared to monstrosity would be:


Beasts: Honestly sheep isn't that bad... though ram is a strictly better sheep. But what I'd really want (besides the nm type ones of course) is Gnole if it gets Cacophony at a charge/duration that would let you full time it or Lapinion with Wild Ginseng

Vermin: Midge if it gets either Booming bomb. and the effects land or Cimcine discharge assuming the haste is comparable (regular gnat for that too), coral wamoura for benumbing blaze either wamoura for erratic flutter.

Aquan: Definitely Limascabra

Amorph: Probably sandworm just for coolness factor... though I'd want gigaworm in the slim hopes of getting Psyche suction. Slug is a decent runner up especially if the hp down can land. As is Obdella assuming again you can land moves

Plantoid: Sabotender Florido for 4k and Chupa blossom, Rafflesia for seedspary/bloody carcass. And assuming you can land Petalback spin Pachypodium. Though for other mandies Adenium's Phaeosynthesis is very good.

Lizard: Wivre definitely though abyssobugard is rather strong


Also speaking of mons... seeing as it seems clear that jugs are going to be kept in the can only use moves every few minutes and still be weaker than than the other pet jobs that can spam them category why not allow them things that mons get like say use of applicable non sp job abilities or spells?

[Karbuncle]

If we get any of the things you want (fat chance), I hope they're sized down considerably... A Mini-Sandworm is not outside the realm of possibility though, which would be cool... and outside of Turtle-Man (and I guess Coral Crab), are there any pets we get that have their HNM TP moves? I think not... but I havent looked at many of them lately what with the state of beast :|

[Glamdring]

a review: I've now used all 6 of the new purchased jugs in surging WoE, wearing 5/5 119 Bst Relic gear, the 119 skirmish axe (augmented, but nothing for the pet as there are no augments for pets available), the 115 axe from wildkeepers, pastoralist's mantle, kuru belt(?) and a ferine necklace, other gear but nothing with effect on the pets, 5/5 beast affinity merits, full timed all of the above to give a stable sample. The results are-as you would expect based on all the observations in other threads-predictably disappointing. It isn't simply the accuracy issue which SE claims they are addressing (until I see it, they are not) the melee attack power is also low, about 1/3 of mine as bst/dnc. Oh, and intimidation effects with the proper beast progressions are non-existent.

They did last longer than I expected, not by virtue of any great defense but because they never had hate so were only getting hit by AoE damage. The one surge where I tried to solo with a pet he lasted 45 seconds, with a reward (pet food eta) and a healing Salve II (that was the slug). All 6 pets averaged about 115 damage, hitting about 1/5 of their attempts from the chat spam. no worries about charges for ready moves, at the rate they accumulated TP with spur all charges were available whenever sufficient TP to use a ready move was available. The only plusses (if there are any), about 1/3 of the hits they did land were criticals, those averaged about 285 damage, and when the mob would run the pet gives chase, making your target easy to follow.

so, overall assessment, beastmaster is a liability in group play, and solo can only work with trust NPCs if using jugs. They are simply too ineffectual and quite frankly cost-prohibitive based on return for your money. So, the only utility for beast is in non-instanced content with jugs restricted to reives and charmed pets used everywhere else (and frankly I would start the reive with a charmed pet if at all possible, calling a jug if the charm dies). The trust NPCs are because pets cannot be used as tanks anymore, even jugs with snarl after a weapon skill, hate is back on the master in at most 3 swings and they cannot be used with you standing off, they don't last long enough to finish a fight without the master's melee DD contributions.

I fought all the same surged WoE with my smn using the eminent sachet to set level (so 115 avatars). Melee hits were only about 77 on average but they lasted just as long, defensive BPs work outside alliance, offensive BPs were averaging about 1300 (my summoning skill is still only 362) and accuracy was much better than jugs for both melee and BP, and the pets cost nothing.

SE, you have some SERIOUS work to do, unless beast nerfing was intentional, in which case I think we all would like to see the admission of your intent on that. To call me less than impressed is an understatement.

[ZoMBie343]

New Jug Pets:

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/a6c63f092f81ca7089737db010e88f4c.jpg

Warlike Patrick (Natural Cap: 104)
Costs 200 gil/ea
Atk Adj: +30%
Def Adj: -20%


Level Accuracy Attack Evasion Defense Max HP
99 482 614 418 353 5372
100 498 635 434 366
101 507 638 442 373
104 555 700 485 412 5400
105 571 722 500 425
106 587 741 515 438
109 635 804 558 476
113 700 888 617 528
115 732 928 646 554
117 764 971 675 579
119 796 1011 704 605 5508

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/d1b6b7b19d028a622fe02a3b775920b8.jpg

Rhyming Shizuna (Natural Cap: 107)
Costs 344 gil/ea.
Atk Adj: +10%
Def Adj: +30%


Level Accuracy Attack Evasion Defense Max HP
99 469 523 418 575 5688
100 485 541 434 596
101 494 543 442 609
105 558 614 500 692
106 574 631 515 711
107 590 648 529 734 5740
109 622 683 558 774
113 687 755 617 858
115 719 789 646 900
117 751 825 675 941
119 783 859 704 983 5832

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/aa84101cd7a5ff70d435fb35218019b8.jpg

Amiable Roche (Natural Cap: 110)
Costs 591 gil/ea.
Atk Adj: +40%
Def Adj: -10%


Level Accuracy Attack Evasion Defense Max HP
99 479 662 421 400 5056
100 495 685 437 415
101 504 688 445 424
105 568 778 503 481
106 584 799 518 495
109 632 867 561 538
110 647 889 575 553 5124
113 697 957 620 597
115 729 1001 649 626
117 761 1047 678 655
119 793 1090 707 683 5184

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/6298692c9515a994f715a612e361b614.jpg

Brainy Waluis (Natural Cap: 113)
Costs 1016 gil/ea.
Atk Adj: None
Def Adj: None


Level Accuracy Attack Evasion Defense Max HP
99 489 477 418 444 5372
100 505 493 434 460
101 514 495 442 470
105 578 560 500 534
106 594 575 515 549
109 642 623 558 597
113 707 688 617 662 5464
115 739 719 646 694
117 771 752 675 726
119 803 783 704 758 5508

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/00673c325fc58f769c67e3d94f8733ca.jpg

Hurler Percival (Natural Cap: 116)
Costs 1747 gil/ea.
Atk Adj: +20%
Def Adj: None


Level Accuracy Attack Evasion Defense Max HP
99 466 542 404 509 4862
100 482 561 420 525
101 491 563 428 534
105 555 641 486 598
106 571 659 501 614
109 619 717 544 662
113 684 795 603 727
115 716 832 632 759
116 732 851 647 775 4968
117 748 871 661 791
119 780 909 690 823 4988

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/ac258650176c3c502180a332be1bb010.jpg

Generous Arthur (Natural Cap: 119)
Costs 3004 gil/ea.
Atk Adj: -20%
Def Adj: +30%
En-slow effect


Level Accuracy Attack Evasion Defense Max HP
99 469 379 412 579 4740
100 485 392 428 600
101 494 393 437 613
105 558 446 495 696
106 574 458 509 715
109 622 496 552 778
113 687 548 611 862
115 719 573 640 903
117 751 599 669 945
119 783 624 698 986 4860

Thank you Glamdring! I woud like to supplement your findings with additional support from those at Blugartr. Our pets' performance is absolutely terrible! Please fix Beastmaster! :(

[Olor]

Dear SE, when will we get pets that are not garbage?

Love,

Olor

[Glamdring]

Just curious, where is whoever in BG getting natural caps for these jugs? I would have to assume .dat mining, I've never seen any method of getting a firm number for that by just testing. not disputing the per level stats though, that gels with what I was seeing.

and to echo Olor, if you won't give us decent jugs then let us charm in instances again, there was nothing broken about it for the 8+ years where that was the norm after all, why would it be broken now?

[Olor]

Just curious, where is whoever in BG getting natural caps for these jugs?

I think they use the HP to calculate it somehow... but not sure. I'll ask the folks who test them.

[Olor]

So the person who does these calculations (Bookmarku on the Zam) answered this:


Figuring out the level caps is a simple (but time-consuming) process. It used to be a lot more tedious before /checkparam became a thing. :D

First step is to remove all Beast Affinity merits, then call the pet with an iLvl 119 Axe equipped to figure out what its natural cap stats are (remove all other gear and take into consideration any Pet:Stat+ from Axe/Job Points).

Second step is to merit Beast Affinity 5/5 and then use Ankusa Gloves/+1 in combination with a variety of iLvl Axes to determine what the pet's stats look like at a variety of levels. We have 11 different iLvls that we can check directly (99, 100, 101, 105, 106, 109, 113, 115, 117, 118, 119), though I don't have Budliqa +1 so I can't directly test iLvl 118. If the jug pet's natural cap stats match one of these levels, you're done.

If you haven't found a match by this point, you at least have narrowed it down to a particular range and there's an additional step that can be used. In the recent case of Warlike Patrick (who caps at iLvl 104) there currently is no iLvl Axe we can use to summon an exact match to the natural cap version, but we can use Max HP to work it out. I always check the Max HP at level 99/natural cap/119 by using Healing Salve in Abyssea (lower pet's health to < 50% then use Healing Salve and multiply the amount healed x 2). Something to keep in mind for this, though there are a couple of exceptions, but for the majority of pets there is no increase in Max HP at level 100. So, for Warlike Patrick:

Level.........Max HP
99...........5372
100...........5372

Natural Cap.....5400
119............5508


The average Max HP increase from level 100 -> 119 is +7.1 HP per Level.
We know from step 2 that the natural cap stats are greater than level 101 and less than level 105, So when we fill in the blanks, we see...

Level............Max HP
99................5372
100...............5372
101...............5379.1
102...............5386.2
103...............5393.3
104...............5400.4 <- There's the natural cap!
...
119................5508


So yeah, the process is more or less like that. :) The cap for some pets like BrainyWaluis and GenerousArthur are quickly identified, and others like Warlike Patrick need additional investigation, but it's relatively simple. Maybe someday they'll follow through and actually include the iLvl info in the jug description!

link to their post: http://www.zam.com/forum.html?forum=262&mid=1298635397162868956&p=10#494

[Glamdring]

thanks for the info, very interesting! But I'll let him do it, damned if I'm tossing then remeriting my BA merits just to confirm what he already tested. Pretty disappointing they would release anything with a natural cap below 109, or really 119 TBH though, I mean what's the point in releasing pets that can't reach the current cap as an endgame option? means they were already obsolete BEFORE they were released. I mean I'm a casual player and I have a 119 main-hand axe, which means most that play have one, and even if you don't there is 0 excuse to not have a117 with the eminent axe out there. I think I'm gonna start drinking now...

[dasva]

I just use a mule that has no merits it makes it rather easy... also there is no actual need to remerit them if you are just finding natural caps that part is just to find all the stats for every level he can

Side note I've tested the moves and the slug moves and the evasion down ones are just as potent as before though it seems all the slows and paralyzes are much weaker (including slugs enslow) not sure how well they will land but had no resists in pvp vs my average ilvl 115 whm for what it is worth

[Falkirk]

Having a BST mule, s'pose you've got an advantage in that regard!

And you're right, the extra parts of the process are just for completeness, or like a "double-check" I suppose. XD

So when you figured out AttentiveIbuki's cap, you summoned it on your mule and then compared it to your main character's Ibuki with a level 109 axe? That definitely makes it nice and easy. :)

[dasva]

Depends on the level of that particular but yeah for ibuki that was kinda necessary since the next axe is 4 levels higher. For the ranges where there is an axe of each level it's real easy just go till you see no change. Even a level apart is fairly easy since the difference between 1 level of stats and 2 is fairly obvious. But too many makes it hard since you wouldn't 100% know the stat/lvl for those ranges ahead of time.

You could also do really janky stuff like call beast without using relic gloves until you get one that is below your lvl/ilvl and determine by how much and fill in levels that way since even switching weapons it will remain that amount lower than it would have been with relic gloves. Ie a 119 called without gloves while wearing 119 guttler coming out as a 117 would go to being a 97 with no weapon and then 115 if you put eminent axe on

[Falkirk]

I actually haven't been able to reproduce what you're describing. Even without Ankusa Gloves, every iLvl pet that I summon has no level variation.

It works with level 99 Axes, or no Axe at all, but a level 97 or 98 pet cannot be an iLvl pet (since all iLvl pets are technically level 99 with stats thrown on top).

Are you sure that it's still possible to do this?

[dasva]

If I'm reading you right you are saying that for pets with a natural cap above 99 relic gloves "enhance call beast" or "call beast +2) do nothing? Hmmm maybe they patched it? I know awhile back when I was doing some testing on ibuki and forgot to put the gloves on it did have lower stats and that was with no augment on it just nq gloves

[Falkirk]

Yeah, try it out. :O

Been summoning frogs and lizards over and over with 5/5 Beast Affinity, iLvl 109 Axe and no Gloves and not seeing any stat variance. Guess they did patch it!

[dasva]

Hmmm your right. Maybe it only worked because I was doing it on no merit no gloves guy.... or maybe it's a new glitch/ninja patch

Well since that appears to be the case it would make getting more of the levels the that we don't have ilvl axes for easier since you don't have to worry about ranging and wont have to make a gloves that aren't augmented.