So, reforging AF armor requires CoP?

[Yirivi]

Would have been nice if that was made public/common knowledge, on either the Wiki or the 'Adventuring Primer' that got me to come back to the game...

So, a couple days ago I decided to check on FFXI, see how its doing. I saw the Primer and liked what I read... I resubbed and was having fun. I read up about Records of Eminence and how I could earn sparks to spend on things... like in the primer, "Job-Specific gear!". To quote the primer...

"It’s also possible to obtain all of the chapters through Records of Eminence!

Brave the battlefields to collect a whole bunch of chapters of Rem’s Tale, or persevere with Records of Eminence to steadily purchase chapters with your sparks!

So I can choose how to obtain-wobtain the items based on my playstyle?
It’s nice knowing I can reforge equipment while solo by gradually-wadually saving up points."

Yeah, but you need to do CoP. THAT'S KIND OF A BIG DEAL. Here's the wiki page:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Reforged_Artifact_Armor

Makes it look like you can just earn sparks and upgrade your old AF gear. The primer also was very misleading. You can't just come back to the game, you better have done almost all of CoP 'cause otherwise you can't upgrade your old gear... and since I play a summoner, my AF gear is the only thing worthwhile. The regular gear you can buy with sparks are USELESS.

Now, but before a lot of people get all upset "yeah herp derp you need to do CoP to deserve the gear! You can't just get it for free you need to do the work!" FINE. GOOD. But don't leave that important info out! GEEZ.... very few people will have done all of CoP these days... if I knew I had to do that boring grind, I would not have returned to the game...

So, what did I lose out on? Well, my hopes were high for some fun times... I probably wouldn't have stayed around unless I made some friends... but since I can't even PARTICIPATE in current content (due to gear) I have no desire to do those insanely boring and easy grinds to catch up. As it is, I spent a lot of time completing all the old AF1 quests (coffers and keys, what fun!) and unlocking Toraimai Canal (very annoying...). I also spent a bit of time researching my job and looking into gear upgrades and how to get them... I was pretty pumped up, but now I'm deflated!

I doubt anyone cares, but maybe this post will come up on Google... YOU NEED COP TO come back to FFXI, FOR SOME ABSURD REASON.

Edit: Just to clarify, what happened is I farmed all this gear and stuff and when I got to the turn in NPC, they wouldn't talk to me. The wiki and the official page never listed the full-requirements and were very misleading.

[Karbuncle]

I wanted to verify what you said before I replied... so went to look


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/38100-Nov-5-2013-(JST)-Version-Update

The update notes for reforged AF equipment. not even a squeek or peep mentioning requiring Chains of Promathia... so, I have to agree on the field they should at least publish this information instead of leaving it up to the community to figure out the requirements.

[Crevox]

I was annoyed by this as well, but the community on this forum told me I should stop begging for handouts and should just do CoP.

[Zarchery]

That probably should have been publicized, though I've got no problem with the requirement itself.

[Lithera]

Well BG doesn't straight out say CoP on their reforging page but do have links to the npc and on the npc's page put a warning that you need access to limbus. Gamerescape also lists limbus on their reforge page. So there is that.

[Edyth]

I think it's kind of assumed that anyone serious enough to reforge their armor has at least obtained a Rajas Ring by beating CoP.

[Crevox]

I think it's kind of assumed that anyone serious enough to reforge their armor has at least obtained a Rajas Ring by beating CoP.

As a new player, Rajas Ring isn't exactly high in the priority list. Beyond that, I personally only play mages at 99 (I have 3 level 99 mage jobs, not a single high level physical class). Why would I even bother going for Rajas Ring?

As a Summoner, my first priority was getting my AF armor upgraded, because the Summoner armor is so core and required to the job. When I found out after I got all the required materials to upgrade my armor to 109 that I had to spend days doing low level content before I could get it, naturally I was pretty annoyed.

[Stompa]

Yes but the original artifact upgrades, the level 70s AF+1, from <Long time.> ago, required you to farm Limbus, which is accessed through Sea, which requires COP progress.

So if you wanted your Summoner artifact +1 many years ago, you would have to go and grind Temenos/Apollyon. And that was just for your lvl 70s AF+1 with the comedy bonuses that made people laugh at you for wearing it.

So its not SE's fault, this is a game mechanic dating back forever, if you wanted to upgrade your base AF you needed to farm Sea, by progressing through COP. All SE did was extend this process to 119.

And since you can finish COP on solo in very little time nowadays (in sparks/bayld gear, or even less) and you can farm Limbus solo too, and get the Limbus items from log-in points, it seems that SE have gone out of their way to make this process easy to solo. The fact they made it possible to leapfrog the Limbus items by using AF & 10 chapters instead of AF+1 & 5 chapters, doesn't change the fact that upgrading the core artifact is storylined to Limbus items and NPCs.

I do agree that they could explain this to new players, who might not understand that Artifact armor is Storyline Armor, the story begins with your AF quests and then continues with the Limbus items and the Limbus NPC sending your armor to the East to get it upgraded to the ubber lvl 70's version, and how the same NPC's repeat this upgrade process for 109/119.

[Crevox]

Yes but the original artifact upgrades, the level 70s AF+1, from <Long time.> ago, required you to farm Limbus, which is accessed through Sea, which requires COP progress.

However, upgrading AF armor to 109 does not require AF+1. They easily could have made it require it, but they didn't, it just costs more chapters.

The whole requirement of doing CoP just to unlock the ability to upgrade AF armor is a huge thing that players (depending on their job) have to complete just to be able to participate in end game, which is already a gigantic growing list. The majority of that prep work is also just playing by yourself, in an MMORPG.

If you and your friends start playing together and you all want to start doing end game content, some of you or all of you are going to have to go through tons of different things solo, like CoP. Sure, you could NOT do it solo and do it as a group, but then as soon as one person has to leave for any reason then you all have to stop to stay in sync. Even if you don't, you'll all be backtracking to help that other person catch up, and one way or another, it's either going to take like 5x longer than it would have solo or you'll all be doing it solo cause you're no longer in sync. Even then, most people that would play would debate if it's even worth the valuable time that some people actually have to play with one another, when you're all basically just watching a movie together. This content, at the moment, as a requirement, is not healthy for an MMORPG.

There's nothing wrong with leaving CoP in the game and offering personal useful rewards like Rajas Ring for players to work on in their own time, but locking important, core job armor that practically everyone needs (and some jobs basically cannot operate in end game without) behind a solo endeavor that takes days is just wrong. It's extremely off-putting to new players, and even more so for those that start the game playing with friends. With CoP and other things that all need to be done alone, this game quickly shifts from an MMORPG to a long solo grind with the carrot on a stick at the end of the tunnel saying "once you do all this, you'll be able to play with your friends!"

The harsh reality of end game after that is yet to come, but requiring CoP and other things is just cruel. It takes far too long to get going in this game, and simple things like this just make it worse. There was no reason they had to make this a requirement; they just did, and they shouldn't have.

[Stompa]

However, upgrading AF armor to 109 does not require AF+1. They easily could have made it require it, but they didn't, it just costs more chapters.


Yeah, I said those very words in the post you snipped one line out of.

SE helped you out by offering 10 chapters instead of compulsory farming Limbus. Then they helped you out further by giving the Limbus items away for free in login campaign. Thats a lot of helping you out. My point was just that upgrading artifact was always tied to the skilled craftsmen from the Near East, and the Sea-related NPCs who have contact with those craftsmen. So it makes logical sense to upgrade the same armors further using those same Sea NPCs.

This is a roleplaying storyline game, you play the storylines because they are part of the roleplaying world. Some items and armors are tied to those storylines. It would suck if you could just buy AF 119 in a shop for gil. Its much more fun to make some armors storyline-related and you need to play the roleplaying game storyline to unlock those armors.

[Crevox]

So it makes logical sense to upgrade the same armors further using those Sea NPCs.

And yet there was still no reason to require near entire completion of the story of an expansion from 2004 to upgrade armor to modern day. They literally could have used the same NPCs and let you do it anyways, or just add a NEW NPC from "the near east" if they really wanted to keep the lore intact. Nothing was stopping them from doing so, they simply chose to keep the requirement in place.


This is a roleplaying storyline game, you play the storylines because they are part of the roleplaying world. Some items and armors are tied to those storylines. It would suck if you could just buy AF 119 in a shop for gil. Its much more fun to make some armors storyline-related and you need to play the roleplaying game storyline to unlock those armors.

Except upgrading the armor has absolutely nothing to do with the story of CoP. Unlocking sea just makes you look "impressive" or something to those craftsmen so then they want to talk to you. It doesn't feel like an achievement because it isn't. There is nothing difficult about completing that story, and for people who actually care about the story, they can enjoy it any time they want. There was just no reason to gate that armor upgrade requirement behind content from 2004. In the end, all it is is just one more thing that SE forces players to do for no reason to be caught up with everyone else and actually get the armor that they can easily get the materials for without even touching that 2004 content.

In my personal opinion, the entire thing is a massive pain, taking hours of your life away without being able to play an MMORPG with anyone else. Run here, run there, alt tab every 5 seconds and read a guide because the in-game descriptions are extremely poor or sometimes even lie to you. I know I'm not alone either, because multiple friends of mine quit playing the game because they couldn't stand it. They loved the game (jobs, battle system, gear, everything) but this is all just tedious and not worth the time investment (some of them don't even have that time to spend). Any time they did login we'd rather have fun going out and leveling, fighting tough monsters and getting loot, than running around watching cutscenes for hours.

Like I said, CoP is just one of many of these silly requirements that shouldn't just exist any longer in 2014. What's worse, is that obviously they don't always have the time to go back and adjust old content to speed it up or remove the requirements, but here they added the armor upgrade and purposely chose to have that requirement. They were developing it, and they had the choice right there, and chose to go with it anyways. It only leads to grim tidings about future additions.

Did I enjoy the story? Sure, it was alright, and I might've done it at some point, but being forced to complete it so prematurely for such a simple, core thing that is basically required in order to play in endgame took all the fun right out of it, if there was even going to be any to be had.

[Stompa]

In my personal opinion, the entire thing is a massive pain, taking hours of your life away

Well, this is where we disagree. I really enjoyed all the FFXI expansion missions, all of them, especially WOTG. And WOTG had huge extra legwork because you were going from the past to the future a lot, and then "her memories" where you went to get the same CS's again. And I enjoyed all those storyline missions, in every expansion.

Those missions, they all took hours of my life away. So does delve, VW, rieves, dyna, - and they are boring and grindy as hell and they take hours of your life away without any cute Cutscenes with cool FFXI hero characters talking to you.

Going to work takes hours of my life away, so does shopping and housework. But I do them because they are required. Just like playing required storylines in RPG games.

And my final point before I go, COP is not only for Rajas ring and reforged armors. SE are now adding Version 2.0 hard battlefields for the various missions TOAU ZM COP. You need to beat those original mission expansions to be able to take part in the V 2.0 hardmode battlefields - with their very nice treasure drops. Going further, SE may well add Last Boss v 2.0 hard mode battlefields for COP TOAU WOTG, and wouldn't you want to fight those last bosses on hard mode, and obtain some maybe uber drops? But you couldn't do that if you hadn't made the effort to do the now-very-easy-to-solo Storyline missions first. I totally reject that COP is only for the old rings, or even for the reforged, it is a core Storyline and SE are adding hardmode battles to keep it relevant. I got the WS-acc headset from Tenzen v2.0 - that item alone was worth doing COP missions for.

[Karbuncle]

Everything you do in or out of the game takes hours of your life away.

If you attempted to find joy in it it would be worth the time.

[Crevox]

Everything you do in or out of the game takes hours of your life away.

If you attempted to find joy in it it would be worth the time.

No matter how much of an attempt you make to find joy in something, it doesn't make it fun to everyone. I do not enjoy doing that content, but I enjoy doing the battles that I need gear and credit from CoP to do, so I don't have a choice. You play games to have fun, and requiring hours and hours of complete and utter boredom (worse than boredom, it feels like work) in order to gain access to the fun you know (or think) is on the other side is terrible. I can spend hours having fun on a game, that's fine, but I do not like spending hours doing what is complete and utter tedium to me. I don't really have a choice in the matter either; if I want to do any of the end game content, I have to waste away those hours solo, and for many people that have nowhere near as much free time as me, that's completely unacceptable.

The game basically comes with a big time sink cost that must be invested into before you can actually start playing it with everyone else. It would make sense if I was actually fighting tough mobs for the gear or something, but no, 99% of it is running and cutscenes. Why should items that enhance your character's performance in battle for 2014 content be gated behind 2004 content that, for the most part, requires no battling at all?

In the past it may have been a group endeavor, but now, it is purely solo content in the midst of an MMORPG, yet is required to be completed in order to access end game content. Such content is about 10 years old now, yet is still required in order to participate in content they are adding in 2014. There is nothing wrong with leaving it there for people to complete when and if they desire to do so, but requiring completion for something so core and critical to your character's growth is a major flaw. There was no reason for them to make it a requirement when they made the armor; it's unhealthy for the game and makes it very hard for new players to catch up to everyone else.

And for clarity's sake, because some people may not know, I did CoP after realizing this terrible thing. It was even worse than I thought it was going to be, and I had to take a break from the game for months after doing it, because I just couldn't stand it anymore. I came back, and now I'm doing high tier battlefields, Delve, and all kinds of fancy end game content. All of this is fun, but nothing short of like a Mythic weapon being given to me would make me go back and do CoP over again.

[Karbuncle]

COPs pretty terribly long, cutscene driven, and a lot of walking. No denying it, and its much less fun without friends to help you.

Just saying, finding fun in things? That shits fun.

[Crevox]

Just saying, finding fun in things? That shits fun.


And some things, you just can't. :\


No denying it, and its much less fun without friends to help you.

Friends cannot help you run around. They're not helping me by doing so, and I'm only making them have to do it as well, which I couldn't do to someone else.

[Lithera]

I still don't have a 109 or 119 armor for my smn. I do have full +2 emperyean and the fully upgraded skirmish weapon and the bayld satchel. Of course i tend not to do many things solo on my smn, but neither were you. You did things on your smn with friends and still are. Also can't get some trusts until you're near the end of CoP either. One of them many players abuse the crap out of while doing things solo. I also have, if I remember to wear the hagondes boots on my smn.

Again getting back on track it just looks like some web pages and I guess even the thing SE put out didn't state the need to complete CoP. That's why there is more than one place to look for that kind of info. Why the OP didn't do this I don't know. Heck I'm surprised the thread on here didn't pop up in a search about the requirement.

[Lithera]

And some things, you just can't. :\



Friends cannot help you run around. They're not helping me by doing so, and I'm only making them have to do it as well, which I couldn't do to someone else.

Because a friend who might be really bored and have free time wouldn't want to help you or if they haven't done it yet they at least someone else they can talk to in party chat. If you played XIV you seem like the type that would kick a poor new person doing praetorium because they wanted to watch their CS instead of skipping them and watching them at their inn room. Only because you couldn't be bothered to wait to start a fight while they did so. The game btw gives you enough time that you would be able to complete the instance even with someone who reads slower than me (I read fairly slow), on a PS3 with a lot of lag and a pretty bad group.

Oh and if they're friends who have done it already they can help you run around by omg giving you directions. Though I guess you're going to say that doesn't count.

[Crevox]

I still don't have a 109 or 119 armor for my smn. I do have full +2 emperyean and the fully upgraded skirmish weapon and the bayld satchel. Of course i tend not to do many things solo on my smn, but neither were you. You did things on your smn with friends and still are.

Anything I do solo in the game, ever, I do with my SMN, which happens to be a lot of things. And no, I don't play my SMN with my friends, but that's because I know personally it sucks so I prefer to play something else that actually benefits them.

Just because you can tolerate having bad gear, or don't do anything that requires good gear, doesn't mean I can tolerate it or don't do things that require it. This seems kinda rude, but I really have no other way to explain it; your statement is odd and serves no purpose.


Because a friend who might be really bored and have free time wouldn't want to help you or if they haven't done it yet they at least someone else they can talk to in party chat. If you played XIV you seem like the type that would kick a poor new person doing praetorium because they wanted to watch their CS instead of skipping them and watching them at their inn room. Only because you couldn't be bothered to wait to start a fight while they did so. The game btw gives you enough time that you would be able to complete the instance even with someone who reads slower than me (I read fairly slow), on a PS3 with a lot of lag and a pretty bad group.


Now you're turning this into a XIV argument? :\ No, I wouldn't be that person, because yes, I played XIV as well.

I'm always talking to my friends, regardless of what I'm doing. If I'm doing something boring and I hate, and they also think it's boring and they hate it, there's no reason for me to drag them into it.

[Balloon]

If you're not constantly mentioning ffxiv or it's playerbase you're not doing these forums correctly, Crevox, jesus!
I don't think you sound like one of those people, you want to spare someone the tedium that is CoP. Seems a lot more considerate to me.

[Zarchery]

The harsh reality of end game after that is yet to come, but requiring CoP and other things is just cruel. It takes far too long to get going in this game, and simple things like this just make it worse. There was no reason they had to make this a requirement; they just did, and they shouldn't have.

I thought you ragequit this game months ago after your last bout of "OMG FFXI SUCKS IT'S LIKE BEING CASTRATED WITHOUT ANASTHESIA" posts.

[Karbuncle]

Friends cannot help you run around. They're not helping me by doing so, and I'm only making them have to do it as well, which I couldn't do to someone else.

I beg to differ. Friends making everything more fun and can help you run around. Ignoring the fact a friend can Mazurka, Bolters, or Teleport you around, and WARP! Talking with eachother and being in eachothers company makes even the dullest of events more fun... and i consider making dull things fun helpful :)

Plus, friends will help friends even if its dull, I do it all the time, and others for me... thats what friends are all about.

As far as not being able to find something fun? Yah, I know, subjective and such.

[Xantavia]

COPs pretty terribly long, cutscene driven, and a lot of walking. No denying it, and its much less fun without friends to help you.

Just saying, finding fun in things? That shits fun.
The walking part is much shorter now than it used to be. With HP warping, getting back to Cid is a snap. If you find you aren't strong enough to win a fight because you try to do it while leveling up, I found a bunch of HP crystals outside of several BCNM zones (in Riverne by Monarch Linn, entrance to Mineshaft #whatever, and right before Diablos). Took me about 2 months to finish CoP starting from scratch (which is 7 1/2 weeks too long for a lot of people), but this also included me leveling solo 1-95 (along with several jobs at 50), doing all limit breaks, and getting a Rank 10 nation.

So yes, while travel can be tedious for CoP, a lot of the time it is a one-time thing, then you warp nearby if you have to go there again later.

[Crevox]

I beg to differ. Friends making everything more fun and can help you run around. Ignoring the fact a friend can Mazurka, Bolters, or Teleport you around, and WARP! Talking with eachother and being in eachothers company makes even the dullest of events more fun... and i consider making dull things fun helpful

Plus, friends will help friends even if its dull, I do it all the time, and others for me... thats what friends are all about.

As far as not being able to find something fun? Yah, I know, subjective and such.

I talk with friends over voice chat and messenger. No reason for them to travel with me in game even if that weren't the case.

Being a Summoner, I already have Fleet Wind.

Anyways, that's all my opinion, again. I've reported the people that are directly harassing me. Don't know what it is with people on this forum and insulting people for having a different opinion on what is fun.

[Aeron]

Every single time games take this casual approach it ruins the soul of the game. Casualness is a cancer. It ruins drive and goals. Effort is very important. What right does a person who just started the freaking game to be able to do end game right away or have end game quality gear? The fact that the content in question can be soloed should more then make up for the fact that you have to do it in order to progress because at that point there is no one holding you back but yourself.

[Zarchery]

I think that casualness is important...to a degree. This game would be unsustainable if it were as tough as it was in 2006. But you gotta put in SOME effort. If you make things too easy, maybe you'll attract some new players, but they're either 1) going to blast through everything way too quickly and get bored or 2) give up the second they hit the slightest road bump. Such as, say, doing a series of quests that anyone can solo with no effort.

[Arbalest]

I talk with friends over voice chat and messenger. No reason for them to travel with me in game even if that weren't the case.

Being a Summoner, I already have Fleet Wind.

Anyways, that's all my opinion, again. I've reported the people that are directly harassing me. Don't know what it is with people on this forum and insulting people for having a different opinion on what is fun.

If you don't want to put in some effort and finish content, while experiencing a pretty damn-good story and getting some cool stuff towards the end, why would you need REM's chapters? Why would you need reforging?

The game asking you to exert a little effort in the name of progression isn't summoning the apocalypse to planet earth - it's doing content within the game, for the sake of rewards. It's playing the game. No-brainer, right?

There's plenty of Delve gear, and Adoulin stuff you can get if you don't feel like putting forth the effort in order to reforge your old AF.

[detlef]

To be fair, the poster is not against putting effort in; he agrees that it's just a combination of running around and doing easy fights. Rather, he is against mindless busywork, traversing about for cutscenes and very unchallenging fights. I still disagree with him to an extent, but I also feel like his argument is being twisted and exaggerated.

[Arbalest]

To be fair, the poster is not against putting effort in; he agrees that it's just a combination of running around and doing easy fights. Rather, he is against mindless busywork, traversing about for cutscenes and very unchallenging fights. I still disagree with him to an extent, but I also feel like his argument is being twisted and exaggerated.

The whole game is running around doing mindless busywork; that's literally the definition of every MMO ever made.

[Olor]

The whole game is running around doing mindless busywork; that's literally the definition of every MMO ever made.

Most MMOs don't require you do do level 30 content to get level 99 rewards. It's generally understood that if you want to keep new players - you have to give them the ability to catch up somewhat reasonably. That doesn't usually mean forcing them to ancient, outdated, content.

[Arbalest]

Most MMOs don't require you do do level 30 content to get level 99 rewards. It's generally understood that if you want to keep new players - you have to give them the ability to catch up somewhat reasonably. That doesn't usually mean forcing them to ancient, outdated, content.

It's still relevant for story, and the content is easy - a level 99 can breeze through it in a day or two solo, with warp rings, HP warps, and all the other things we have access to these days. Plus, the rings are still incredibly relevant.

You only deem it as irrelevant content because you can't be arsed to sit back and enjoy some story; you treat it like a chore, but I'm sure a lot of new players would actually enjoy the story.

[Olor]

It's still relevant for story, and the content is easy - a level 99 can breeze through it in a day or two solo, with warp rings, HP warps, and all the other things we have access to these days. Plus, the rings are still incredibly relevant.

You only deem it as irrelevant content because you can't be arsed to sit back and enjoy some story; you treat it like a chore, but I'm sure a lot of new players would actually enjoy the story.

Then those players can still play it! You're not addressing my argument at all. Removing the gating does nothing to diminish the story for those who are interested in completing it. It just stops other folks, who aren't interested in running back and forth doing quest scenes, from giving up on the game or getting frustrated. Also it's nonsense to say it can be done in a couple days, and warp ring was just added a couple weeks ago so completely irrelevant at time this thread was made.

Gating 2014 content behind 2004 content is moronic. COP's rewards are the ring, the trusts, and the zone access. If players would rather prioritize other content with more relevant rewards, it should be up to them. No one is asking for the rings to be available through other means, or asking to get the trusts without doing the missions. That, would be unreasonable.

It's not unreasonable at all to ask why I was allowed to upgrade my relic to +2 without doing a lick of COP but then I couldn't reforge it till I spent days and days and days soloing cut scenes and battles that ended after 2 hits.

[Malithar]

Also it's nonsense to say it can be done in a couple days, and warp ring was just added a couple weeks ago so completely irrelevant at time this thread was made.

Gating 2014 content behind 2004 content is moronic. COP's rewards are the ring, the trusts, and the zone access. If players would rather prioritize other content with more relevant rewards, it should be up to them.

Who cares what year the content is from? If anything, that's further testament to the laziness of some when it comes to completing it. The rewards from CoP is incorrect as well, because now there's yet another incentive, the ability to reforge your gear. That's a reward for completing it. That's relevant. If you deem it unworthy, then don't do it, but don't complain that you can't reforge then. As you said, it's up to the player. I'd personally prioritize completing CoP quite high if I was a returning player, and when I returned a lil over two years ago, long before reforged was added, it was near the top of my list.

And the bit about warp rings, really? Substitute 5x warp cudgels or /Blm. Fact is, getting around is incredibly easy now. It still takes time, but that's the point.

[Ultimego]

Well said Malithar, Olor the fact you do not see the reforge as a reward for doing the quests, just baffles me.

[Arbalest]

Well said Malithar, Olor the fact you do not see the reforge as a reward for doing the quests, just baffles me.

this. this. this.

[Olor]

Well said Malithar, Olor the fact you do not see the reforge as a reward for doing the quests, just baffles me.

Please explain the logic of allowing upgrading relic to +2 with no COP progress? Yes currently, the reforge is gated by COP - but there is no logical reason to do it that way if you can do EVERY OTHER part of the reforge process (including getting all the items for it and upgrading relic to +2) except the NPC won't talk to you.

Trusts are one thing, it makes sense to unlock them with the story - but locking 2014 equipment that has NOTHING TO DO with COP behind a decade old mission is moronic.

As I said elsewhere, I can even fathom an argument for the artifact behing locked by COP - but not relic since it is entirely possible to +2 + augment it without doing even 1 single COP mission.

[Rubicant82]

Please explain the logic of allowing upgrading relic to +2 with no COP progress?.

HAD you DONE the missions in the first place you would know that the AF & Relic get sent to the Far East home of ..... Tenzen, by the NPCs to be +1's. And you see that is where this whole thing goes. In order to +1 your AF needed Ancient Beast Coins that come from Limbus plus a rare/ex item (at the time) that only dropped in limbus as well (one from each side). For Relic you needed the -1 armor which came from the CoP Dyna zones. So the tie in you are so desperately looking for is Sagheera. Because you can upgrade the armor from +1 for cheaper then you can nq. That is the tie in. That is the road block. Sagheera must like you, which mean you need to have access to what she wants. ABCs and rare items. Which you only get from the CoP mission line.

[Rubicant82]

and now for the big reveal ...
In the amount of time people have spent arguing over this post and topic, one could have progressed through at least 1/2 the CoP mission line.

[Zarchery]

Please explain the logic of allowing upgrading relic to +2 with no COP progress? Yes currently, the reforge is gated by COP - but there is no logical reason to do it that way if you can do EVERY OTHER part of the reforge process (including getting all the items for it and upgrading relic to +2) except the NPC won't talk to you.

Trusts are one thing, it makes sense to unlock them with the story - but locking 2014 equipment that has NOTHING TO DO with COP behind a decade old mission is moronic.

As I said elsewhere, I can even fathom an argument for the artifact behing locked by COP - but not relic since it is entirely possible to +2 + augment it without doing even 1 single COP mission.

Please explain the logic of Forri-Porri not selling Oatixurs to someone who has not been in a party that defeated Tojil.

And as Rubicant said, Sagheera deals in Al'Taieu related wares and craftsmen from the Far East. She will not establish a relationship with someone who has not reached Al'Taieu, and neither will her associate Monisette, who also deals with craftsmen in the Far East.

[Aeron]

and now for the big reveal ...
In the amount of time people have spent arguing over this post and topic, one could have progressed through at least 1/2 the CoP mission line.

But see that brings up the point that how long is too long to be able to accomplish a certain objective in the game? Do ppl think that this goal is going to get done in a say 2hrs or even 4hrs of game play? It seems to me that there is a big disconnect between the ppl that have cleared this particular objective and ppl that are looking to clear it for the first time. Ppl who cleared it pre adoulin see the difficulty of the task as being significantly reduced and have the ability to reflect on what it used to take to clear. On the other hand new or returning players(my guess is that the majority that see this as a huge hurdle are returning players) see it as a mountainous roadblock in their quest to get caught up as quickly as possible. Imo taking 3 days to clear something that you feel is required for your job isn't something to get all bent out of shape over. I can think of a lot of other requirements just to play certain jobs that take wayyyy longer to complete.

[SNK]

Please explain the logic of allowing upgrading relic to +2 with no COP progress? Yes currently, the reforge is gated by COP - but there is no logical reason to do it that way if you can do EVERY OTHER part of the reforge process (including getting all the items for it and upgrading relic to +2) except the NPC won't talk to you.

Trusts are one thing, it makes sense to unlock them with the story - but locking 2014 equipment that has NOTHING TO DO with COP behind a decade old mission is moronic.

As I said elsewhere, I can even fathom an argument for the artifact behing locked by COP - but not relic since it is entirely possible to +2 + augment it without doing even 1 single COP mission.



Please stop complaining about it & either do it & get the gear you want or don't do it and don't get your armor. It's your choice to be be lazy about it or not.

[Rubicant82]

But see that brings up the point that how long is too long to be able to accomplish a certain objective in the game? Do ppl think that this goal is going to get done in a say 2hrs or even 4hrs of game play? It seems to me that there is a big disconnect between the ppl that have cleared this particular objective and ppl that are looking to clear it for the first time. Ppl who cleared it pre adoulin see the difficulty of the task as being significantly reduced and have the ability to reflect on what it used to take to clear. On the other hand new or returning players(my guess is that the majority that see this as a huge hurdle are returning players) see it as a mountainous roadblock in their quest to get caught up as quickly as possible. Imo taking 3 days to clear something that you feel is required for your job isn't something to get all bent out of shape over. I can think of a lot of other requirements just to play certain jobs that take wayyyy longer to complete.

It is time consuming, that is all. BG wiki & FFXI wiki have full walk thoughts on the missions. Plus with there being home points all over the world now that you can warp to and the ease of travel we have now the time it takes is greatly reduced. Add in that none of the areas are level capped anymore, and all the fights are super easy to a 99 with sparks gear and the only excuse to not do them is pure laziness. Esp sense you need to do up to the Diablos fight anyway for CoP Dyna access that is about 1/2 way to being done. If I am not mistaken you only have to have access to Sea to (which is when you get access to limbus) in order to start reforging, which is just after the Tenzen fight. Which most people want gear that comes from the new version of that anyway .-.
absolutely baffling.

[Janethetaru]

You have to do COP because they used a COP NPC for the armor reforging. Deal with it. Doing the missions is part of the game. In fact, it's the point of the game in the eyes of the developers, they worked very hard on that story line and for you to not play it simply because it's old is insulting. I played from 2003-2007, until my linkshell leader (who had my info because i was guild banker) got my galka banned for RMT while I was deployed. They didn't have the notarized form option then and I had changed banks twice and couldn't provide enough info to restore him, by the time they had the notarized form, he had been deleted. I came back just before abyssea launched. The first thing i did after LB's was rank 6 for dyna, zilart missions for sky, then rank 10, then COP. I'm currently doing TOAU missions.
Take a deep breath, and remember it's not all about the rat race. Slow down and enjoy the game. COP is a snap now. It was soloable at 75 when they removed the level caps a long time ago, now at lvl 99 with ilvl gear and trust npcs? give me a break. It's just walking around. Go enjoy the wonderful storylines and beautiful scenery.