Linos flute equivalent to 99 Gjallarhorn all songs +4

[VoiceMemo]

SE, what is the point of Gjallarhorn, now that it has been confimred that the Linos flute can get +3 as an augment. Combined with the +1 that it has already is equal to the all songs +4 of Gjallarhorn.

http://cdn.ffxipro.com/images/ss/mid/31e3b19c502184471ca663444df29ac7.jpg

This is yet another slap in the face for Gjallarhorn users. Yes there is skill on Gjallarhorn, but this would only help for offensive songs. It is possible to cap song potency without it.

So I ask again SE. Please do not forget about those veterans who still play the game, who have worked hard for the older items, we would like them upgraded as well. I would be fine with Gjallarhorn being upgraded to All songs +5, or getting a USEFUL Gjallarhorn specific song. IE Massacre Elegy or March 3.

[Selindrile]

Oh get over it, Gjallerhorn will continue upgrading as the level cap rises, Linos will not, they've already said that. I've dropped 5mil in stones into linos and haven't seen a single songs+ augment. Tinhaspa is situationally better than Spharai, Priwen is situationally better than my Ochain but I was happy it came out, you've actually got it "better than most" in that Linos is never actually better than Gjallar, only situationally equal.

Thank you SE for providing these other options, I still think you're on the right track with them, I personally think REM should be the "top dogs" but by a very slender margin, and I don't mind if these things fluctuate some as items come out, I actually think you hit the nail on the head with Linos's power level versus Gjallar, though I'm annoyed and starting to wonder how much gil it will take to get a Song+4, and if I'd be better off just buying a Gjallar lol, I still hate random augments.

[Byrth]

They actually said that they weren't going to be upgrading Instruments and Shields.

I enjoy the extra MAcc on Gjallarhorn and am not too miffed about Linos Flute. I do wish that they would allow skill to affect songs more significantly, though. The highest potency cap we know of is 800 combined skill, which is pretty easy to hit without trying these days. I'd like to see at least one song with uncapped potency.

[VoiceMemo]

Yes SE said that Gjallarhorn and Aegis were not getting ilvls, they said Aegis was around ilvl 150. I don't recall them ever saying what Gjallarhorn's ilvl was. I wouldn't mind if Linos was all songs +2 with +1 base, making it 1 less than Gjallarhorn at 99, but to make it equal isn't right. The primary stat that made Gjallarhorn so powerful was the All Songs +4. The singing and wind skills were bonuses. I don't know any brd that made Gjallarhorn JUST for the +25 singing and wind skills.

[Martel]

Yes SE said that Gjallarhorn and Aegis were not getting ilvls, they said Aegis was around ilvl 150. I don't recall them ever saying what Gjallarhorn's ilvl was. I wouldn't mind if Linos was all songs +2 with +1 base, making it 1 less than Gjallarhorn at 99, but to make it equal isn't right. The primary stat that made Gjallarhorn so powerful was the All Songs +4. The singing and wind skills were bonuses. I don't know any brd that made Gjallarhorn JUST for the +25 singing and wind skills.The ilvl 150 comment was in regards to Ochain, not Aegis. It was also specifically about Ochain's block rate, rather than the shield overall. Cause an actual ilvl 150 shield would kick the ever-loving crap out of Ochain.

Link to said dev post. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/36018-possible-oversight-with-the-new-ilvl-system?p=461098&viewfull=1#post461098) I'm linking it rather than quoting because the post is quite long.

Getting a bit more back on the main topic, SE did say that they weren't giving ilvl updates to shields and instruments. It wasn't limited to ghorn and Aegis, all relic/emp shields and instruments were included.

[Malithar]

Getting a bit more back on the main topic, SE did say that they weren't giving ilvl updates to shields and instruments. It wasn't limited to ghorn and Aegis, all relic/emp shields and instruments were included.

I'm more curious if this is still their stance. I guess I could see it being "plop down 100 mil (or whatever?) for Ghorn, or play the lottery with Linos and spend anywhere from *free* to well over the cost of a Ghorn for your +4 songs!"

Guess time will tell. I'm mildly surprised there hasn't been any reports of 10-20ish% -MDT II, but I suppose having an ilvl shield that even partially stepped on Aegis would be quite the pitfall. Or maybe there just hasn't been enough testing on it yet.

[Martel]

I'm more curious if this is still their stance. I guess I could see it being "plop down 100 mil (or whatever?) for Ghorn, or play the lottery with Linos and spend anywhere from *free* to well over the cost of a Ghorn for your +4 songs!"

Guess time will tell. I'm mildly surprised there hasn't been any reports of 10-20ish% -MDT II, but I suppose having an ilvl shield that even partially stepped on Aegis would be quite the pitfall. Or maybe there just hasn't been enough testing on it yet.Aegis' physical defenses are terrible vs modern high level mobs. I can go into detail if you want to know just how bad.

But anyway, getting Aegis' magic defenses come at the cost of trashing your physical defenses. It only takes 37.5 MDT II to hit the hard MDT cap. So a shield with 20% MDT II would only be 17.5% behind Aegis(Aegis just bypasses the need to hit 50% normal MDT first.) An ilvl 119 shield with 20% MDT II would be pretty be pretty competitive with Aegis. You wouldn't be quite as good against magic, but you'd also have very respectable physical defenses. A good balance to hit vs mobs that use both potent magical and physical damage.

It wouldn't outdate Aegis, but Aegis would definitely take a hit there.

I'd really rather SE just fork over the ilvl updates for shields already.

[Aeron]

Aegis' physical defenses are terrible vs modern high level mobs. I can go into detail if you want to know just how bad.

But anyway, getting Aegis' magic defenses come at the cost of trashing your physical defenses. It only takes 37.5 MDT II to hit the hard MDT cap. So a shield with 20% MDT II would only be 17.5% behind Aegis(Aegis just bypasses the need to hit 50% normal MDT first.) An ilvl 119 shield with 20% MDT II would be pretty be pretty competitive with Aegis. You wouldn't be quite as good against magic, but you'd also have very respectable physical defenses. A good balance to hit vs mobs that use both potent magical and physical damage.

It wouldn't outdate Aegis, but Aegis would definitely take a hit there.

I'd really rather SE just fork over the ilvl updates for shields already.

Omg this. Thank you for providing a very clear post on the ilvl 150 bullshit Martel. That has cause so much misinformation in the community as far as Ochain is concerned. Every single freaking time I bring up in game that the shield really needs an ilvl adjustment I get, oh well the devs said that its an ilvl 150 shield horseshit. Its like ppl saw ilvl 150 that's all they remember from the damm post. I really wish they would put out a correction.

Speaking as someone who has a 99 Ochain I think that it needs an ilvl adjust so that ppl would be more willing to take it past 90 for god sakes. The fact that you get 90% of the benefit of the shield and don't even have it fully upgrade is ridiculous.

I cant wait till someone gets a super augment on that new skirmish shield that completely shits on aegis too because that's the way its looking.

[Draylo]

We're in an age of everyone wanted to be handed things for the least work. I doubt you will get much sympathy because most of the ignorant people think you *need* a ghorn to play bard. There is not much difference now between 4 song ghorn bard and 3 song new instrument bard, especially since haste2/geohaste is out. So all that gil spent on 4 song and ghorn is pretty much devalued heavily. When everyone is special, nobody is special.

[Selindrile]

We're in an age of everyone wanted to be handed things for the least work. I doubt you will get much sympathy because most of the ignorant people think you *need* a ghorn to play bard. There is not much difference now between 4 song ghorn bard and 3 song new instrument bard, especially since haste2/geohaste is out. So all that gil spent on 4 song and ghorn is pretty much devalued heavily. When everyone is special, nobody is special.

Screw you, I'M SPECIAL.

[Karbuncle]

They actually said that they weren't going to be upgrading Instruments and Shields.

I enjoy the extra MAcc on Gjallarhorn and am not too miffed about Linos Flute. I do wish that they would allow skill to affect songs more significantly, though. The highest potency cap we know of is 800 combined skill, which is pretty easy to hit without trying these days. I'd like to see at least one song with uncapped potency.

I'd like to imagine once the gear cap raises to 129 or 139 (if it ever does), they'll give consideration to upgrading instruments and shield, by that level these things may be useless, Ochain is already touching second place.

It wouldn't surprise me, not like they have changed their mind millions of other times in XI's history

[Aeron]

We're in an age of everyone wanted to be handed things for the least work. I doubt you will get much sympathy because most of the ignorant people think you *need* a ghorn to play bard. There is not much difference now between 4 song ghorn bard and 3 song new instrument bard, especially since haste2/geohaste is out. So all that gil spent on 4 song and ghorn is pretty much devalued heavily. When everyone is special, nobody is special.

Its that everyone gets a trophy mentality.

[Xsilver]

119 Ochain would force most PLDs to 99 their 90 Ochains as by the time ilvl130+ mobs come out, Ochain is going to be blocking like 20-30% of the time, Aegis which has no hidden Shield Skill as far as I know is already blocking like <10% on ilvl mobs. It makes sense for Aegis to have a crappy block rate since it's mostly a magic block shield(in old FF games, Aegis had almost no block rate at all but negated magic/elements), but Ochain's primary boon is it's fantastic block rate(but average damage mitigation). They'll probably keep the block rate and cite that because of its "Damage converts to MP" property, it's balanced with ilvl shield without special bonuses. -_-

Going to suck as a PLD to have to 119 my Ochain or drop it for an ilvl Shield when ilvl cap is raised. Most PLDs will have to do the same, because nobody has a freakin 99 Ochain, and most PLDs aren't going to want to upgrade their 90 Ochains to 99 at this stage because HMP are rare as hell.