New Notorious Monsters

[Sandmaste]

A large part of FFXI was NM camping, I know some people loved it, some people hated it and im not talking about new HNM's but it would be nice to have some NM's to camp at level 99. There doesn't need to be rediculous resawn conditions, 1-4hours max but farming NM's back in the day was a lot of fun.

Obviously the drop would be R/Ex unless we have gotten to the stage gilsellers have given up I don't know as I've just returned.

I still have my Bounding Boots, Emp hairpin etc, it would be nice to have some level 99-119 NM's in carefully planned out vanilla zones (vanilla being everything pre-SoA) where you can camp on your own or with a friend for a worthwhile drop.

I guess to an extent you still have it with the starting steps of making emp weapons, but its not quite the same.

Oh - it would be a buff to the THF job without doing anything to the job!

[Balloon]

Please god no.

[Rubicant82]

I'm good with leaving the NMs in the past thanks ... >.>
Nothing says annoying & frustrating like camping a monster that wont give you anything anyway that one time you finally out claim the cheaters using claim bots.

[Karbuncle]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/41378-Bring-a-meaning-to-all-the-Exploration.

[Draylo]

I would like to see NMs roaming around, but give incentive for people to team up and kill them. Maybe they drop more plasm the more you bring or something unique. I know offhand a ton of people would just set up bots to claim them over and over.

[Ophannus]

Rather have hard spawnable NMs that require skill and teamwork for r/ex drops than relying on lottery, luck, and claiming speed.

[Balloon]

Yeah. I don't see the point. By saying you want lottery nms you're just saying the camping part is fun, since the fight would be the same. That's... worrying.

[madmartin]

I always liked the lottery/timed spawn nms, since being back for a month on my new character ive allready got empress hairpin from valkurm emperor and bounding boots from LL, a cool earring set that wont be replaced until end game by these weapon nms in sauramaogue champaigne and rolandberrry fields, i never knew existed, also got the drop from leach king and killed poisonhand gnagdad and mee deggi, it saddens me come 99 the only world nms i can kill our outdated stuff like kirin and behemoth, though soloing kirin on rdm is going to be a cool challenge!

maybe make the nms spawn able all across the zone so you cant camp a specific area, and have to hunt the whole zone or bump in to them randomly!

[Balloon]

Yeah, sandworm was the worst one to camp.

[Rubicant82]

I always liked the lottery/timed spawn nms, since being back for a month on my new character ive allready got empress hairpin from valkurm emperor and bounding boots from LL, a cool earring set that wont be replaced until end game by these weapon nms in sauramaogue champaigne and rolandberrry fields, i never knew existed, also got the drop from leach king and killed poisonhand gnagdad and mee deggi, it saddens me come 99 the only world nms i can kill our outdated stuff like kirin and behemoth, though soloing kirin on rdm is going to be a cool challenge!

maybe make the nms spawn able all across the zone so you cant camp a specific area, and have to hunt the whole zone or bump in to them randomly!

I hope you understand that they recently changed how lottery spawns work esp for those involved in RoE & Magian trials where the NMs spawn much more often.


But as for the whole NM system, Lottery Spawn NMs need to completely go the way of the dinosaur, and no NM should have a respawn of more than 1 hr.
I'm sorry but in 2014 people do not have the patience or the time to sit and wait for hours upon hours upon hours for the NM to spawn, and then have a 1% chance to get the right item. . . 0 desire to go back to those days.
I am personally fond of force spawned NM that have pop items, as long as the pop item has a fair drop rate.

[Balloon]

I mean at what point are you just saying "I like waiting around for a monster to spawn to lose claim against a bot."

The only difference between force pop nms and roaming nms is the claiming process, so..

[Rubicant82]

There are many more differences than that.
Force pops people in general tent to at least be respectful and will let you pop the number you have to pop vs Claiming monsters it is a race to claim it and hope that you can kill it.
Also force pops give rise to a step process; farm pops - pop/kill at the players convenience vs "Oh I hope this spawns soon I need to go to work, or go to bed, or I have other plans".
that is just two great examples, at least I feel anyway, of why a force pop/spawn system is better.

[Balloon]

yes, I meant 'What's the point of lottery Pop nms, because the fights are exactly the same'

[Rubicant82]

the original point of lottery was to prevent the "valuable" items they dropped from getting distributed to quickly: I.E. Time Sink

[Olor]

I would like a few lottery NMs and a few force spawn. Frankly force spawn isn't necessarily great, I had to take 2 weeks off playing after spending 3 days trying to get a taster's cape and coming up empty... hours and hours just trying to get a POP (on thf with max equippable TH) ... and then nothing from the NM... over and over. ugh..

As long as the gear was just so so (maybe 118?) I don't see it being a problem with current server populations.

[Karbuncle]

I personally just want some NMs in the open world. I know not every like that, but Its what made FFXI more unique to me, I love the idea of rare/stronger monsters out there, and it fights with Adoulins theme of treacherous wilds.

They don' have to drop end-all equipment, niche upgrades here or there would be nice (Like a Melee pole for SMN/MNK/PLD) or so on... Just something that makes the open world feel more alive. I hated King camping as much as most of you did, but I always enjoyed camping that random unique NM even if his drops were shit (I.E Proud owner of Rain Hat, Ascalon, Bano Del Sol... items half of you probably don't even know exist)

[Sandmaste]

Its what I liked best about FFXI, going out and camping a roaming NM, buzz1 was gettingthe claim, buzz2 was getting the hopefully drop. Force pop NM's have downsides aswell, for example King Behemoth will most likely cost you a fortune in gil or/and login points. I gave up after a fair few beastly shanks, millions of gil, and 0/4 on KB for DefR. Now I'm not saying Behemoth should go back to 21-24hour, but i'd be happy with him on a 5min-1hour respawn with a change KB could spawn 25% of the time.

Some people actually enjoy the joy of camping, wondering whether the PH or NM will pop next, it might be an ancient system, and not asking for anything massive, just the a few additional nm's for level 99.

[Selindrile]

I really, REALLY dislike "Sit around for 4 hours and then be able to push a single claim macro faster than everyone else there." (And getting lucky enough for someone not to have a claimbot or just a better connection.) being a requirement on any of my gear, no thank you, newer FFXI paradigms all the way for me. I did HNM camping very briefly back in the day and then went back to levelling things because that was completely unfun for me, and most of the people there found it unfun, they just wanted their shiny bit too much to leave. Dynamis, Limbus, Nyzul, Einherjar, Salvage, these were the first endgame events that drew me in and had me enjoying endgame, I DO NOT WANT to go back.

[madmartin]

I hope you understand that they recently changed how lottery spawns work esp for those involved in RoE & Magian trials where the NMs spawn much more often.


But as for the whole NM system, Lottery Spawn NMs need to completely go the way of the dinosaur, and no NM should have a respawn of more than 1 hr.
I'm sorry but in 2014 people do not have the patience or the time to sit and wait for hours upon hours upon hours for the NM to spawn, and then have a 1% chance to get the right item. . . 0 desire to go back to those days.
I am personally fond of force spawned NM that have pop items, as long as the pop item has a fair drop rate.

come to think of it they did spawn quite quickly when i was camping them, i figured no one had camped them recently and tends to spawn them quicker! yeah im not asking for 3+ hour nms at 99 but yeah up to an hour after death for instance would be fine.

[Rubicant82]

come to think of it they did spawn quite quickly when i was camping them, i figured no one had camped them recently and tends to spawn them quicker! yeah im not asking for 3+ hour nms at 99 but yeah up to an hour after death for instance would be fine.

As I read my response I noticed it came of as sounding rude and that was not the point, as I myself had just learned of the new respawn rates not too long ago, I was just passing on the information.

[madmartin]

maybe se could add a poll to this thread to see what the interest is for new world nms!

[Karbuncle]

I really, REALLY dislike "Sit around for 4 hours and then be able to push a single claim macro faster than everyone else there." (And getting lucky enough for someone not to have a claimbot or just a better connection.) being a requirement on any of my gear, no thank you, newer FFXI paradigms all the way for me. I did HNM camping very briefly back in the day and then went back to levelling things because that was completely unfun for me, and most of the people there found it unfun, they just wanted their shiny bit too much to leave. Dynamis, Limbus, Nyzul, Einherjar, Salvage, these were the first endgame events that drew me in and had me enjoying endgame, I DO NOT WANT to go back.

You're over simplifying the crap out of NM camping really. I could make anything in XI sound boring if I wanted too.

"Skirmish? Boy I do love the idea of mashing a WS macro for 30 minutes to not get my drop!"
"Delve? Boy I do love singing the same four songs and afking no /follow for 45 minutes to not get my drop!"
"Nyzul? Boy I do love repeating the same handful of unimagintive objectives for 30 minutes!"

Lets ignore the fact you seem to think that NMs are synonymous with king camping(they're not). Fun is subjective, and frankly this game is attempting to appeal to many people now, or at least feel more "inclusive", adding open world NMs that don't have to drop the best items would bring a sense of adventure to those of us who enjoy the thrill of camping/killing an NM, or finding a timed-spawn up and floating around. With the introduction of /lockstyle, they could even add some of these drops are vanity items, that may have okay/niche uses, but look really cool, or just have a rarer model (its why people liked Rain Hat and such)

[Selindrile]

Except in your examples, that content begins, you learn the mechanics, etc, and sure, by the zillionth time you've done it, it can seem wrote and boring.

Camping, is literally waiting for the content to begin, the combat may be engaging the first time you do a world HNM also, I full well admit that, but the time spent waiting around to maybe get a chance at the actual content, is ridiculous.

Fun is definitely subjective, but by that argument you could be basing your game design around the few people who really enjoy poking themselves in the eye with needles. Camping HNM is not something most people find fun, and dev time should be spent on things that more than a tiny percentage of the population want. Fun may be subjective, but the statistic of how many people would enjoy content like this versus how many would dislike it, is not.

[Olor]

Except in your examples, that content begins, you learn the mechanics, etc, and sure, by the zillionth time you've done it, it can seem wrote and boring.

Camping, is literally waiting for the content to begin, the combat may be engaging the first time you do a world HNM also, I full well admit that, but the time spent waiting around to maybe get a chance at the actual content, is ridiculous.

Fun is definitely subjective, but by that argument you could be basing your game design around the few people who really enjoy poking themselves in the eye with needles. Camping HNM is not something most people find fun, and dev time should be spent on things that more than a tiny percentage of the population want. Fun may be subjective, but the statistic of how many people would enjoy content like this versus how many would dislike it, is not.

People aren't asking for "HNMs" - frankly I only would like to see NMs that can mostly be soloed with trusts added - and nothing that dropped anything except situational gear. It's just Adoulin is kind of very boring with no random NMs at all. I don't see any harm in adding some neat things, again, I suggest 118 gear - something for soloists to get that is an upgrade from some of the 117/115 stuff. Heck if they put interesting stats even 116 would be fine.

It's nice to have a solo path or gear that looks a bit different, is gotten in a slightly different way - something to break up the tedium of farming job points maybe

[Karbuncle]

Except in your examples, that content begins, you learn the mechanics, etc, and sure, by the zillionth time you've done it, it can seem wrote and boring.


So you're saying when you claim the NM it just falls over dead?

No, HNMs had their own mechanics, and they were followed down to a T, just like those events I listed are. They all had their own strategy and what jobs to bring

Tiamat = PLD Tank, ranged attackers
Nidhogg = Careful with Wing up phase, slow fight, Trick attack was used early on IDK how long that lasted

Even Ixion and Sandworm had certain alliance set ups. Most included "throw DD at it", but so does every event in the game.

So forth, most had their out strategies too, not towards the end of their life, but in the beginning.

And again, what Olor said and countless others, no ones asking for Kings/HNM camping back.

[Selindrile]

So you're saying when you claim the NM it just falls over dead?

No, HNMs had their own mechanics, and they were followed down to a T, just like those events I listed are. They all had their own strategy and what jobs to bring



Camping, is literally waiting for the content to begin, the combat may be engaging the first time you do a world HNM also, I full well admit that, but the time spent waiting around to maybe get a chance at the actual content, is ridiculous.

As I already said above, ironically in the post you were responding to, I wasn't arguing that the fight itself couldn't be fun and interesting, I'm arguing against the need to have a pop timer, a reason to need to wait around and do nothing. As opposed to any other way of fighting that same monster.

[Futan]

I'm completely for having open world NMs. Giving them super-niche drops(Melee WHM, lolthrowing NIN, etc.) that most people won't care enough to do would clear up any potential over-camping.

This is one thing I think a lot of MMOs, in general, get wrong. They really only give you 2 things to do: climb the ladder or wait around. And sometimes you just don't feel like climbing the ladder, and you don't want to wait around. Basically, I'm just saying you can't go wrong with offering more alternatives for people to eat time with.

[FrankReynolds]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/41378-Bring-a-meaning-to-all-the-Exploration.

I think putting any valuable drop exclusively or even predominantly on a lottery / timed NM is a horrible idea and just needs to die.

Why not add lottery NMs to the RoE quests or make them drop plasm / bayld or do something like they did with the Magians weapons trials? That way people who like to sit in a field can team up and not be encouraged to douche it up with claim bots. It would give people something to go do when there's no shouts going on without bringing back the days of endless disappointment and it would be a major boon to people who can't get in high level events.

[Sandmaste]

NM's with JSA enhances/augments would be fun, drop rate doesn't have to be to bad, each NM can award some plasm or w/e anyway, and make the NM's lvl115-119 so if they are going to be solo'd, you might want to be on jobs that prosper at solo-ing like Nin, Thf, Rdm, Bst, Dnc, Run? -some of those jobs are feeling rather left out at the moment, its not just job enhancements that bring jobs up to speed, it is also content. NM's always gave some jobs that are not wanted for mainstream content something to get their teeth into. During the Abyssea years, which was NM crazy, and arguably the best and most enjoyable content to have been a part of if you played thro it from lvl75-lvl95 gave jobs like Dnc and Bst things to eventually do, it also gave most jobs something to be a part of (ie you didn't have to burn through the content Mnk + WHM) and BLM's were rewarded with mass content after waiting for years since the turtle+blm method died early on. Jobs did suffer but coincidence - those jobs are the 3 jobs people want for ilevel 119 chapter fights PLD BRD RNG although I wouldn't exactly call that a success as the PLD's and BRD's have to have Relics or Emphereans and not everyone enjoys RNG.

Completely gone of the point - NM's that buff JSA's so they can just be macro-in pieces, they wouldn't be needed but could be nice - idea's neckpieces that have a certain JSA buff like for DNC - 'Augments Haste Samba' giving an additional 1-2% JA haste', COR 'Quick Draw -5' knock 5 seconds off it (obviously thatwould be giving up a MAB slot but who knows), SAM 'Augments Hasso' adds 2% haste or 15 STR to the JA when used - there is literally a mountain of things that could be introduced and it would give each NM a drop someone is going to want 22new NM's or just 11 as you could use one piece for 2 jobs.

[Selindrile]

I hate the idea above me, I guess I wouldn't be opposed to some random spawn NMs that dropped monetary items, or items you could get in other ways, Heavy Metal Pouches, Alexandrite Pouches, Dyna Currency, etc, but having to chase completely unique items that people (myself inlcuded) would feel that are needed... again, would be brutal and disheartening, I never got my Joyeuse, because I was never willing to just live in that damn zone for weeks... f those days.

[Karbuncle]

I think putting any valuable drop exclusively or even predominantly on a lottery / timed NM is a horrible idea and just needs to die.

Why not add lottery NMs to the RoE quests or make them drop plasm / bayld or do something like they did with the Magians weapons trials? That way people who like to sit in a field can team up and not be encouraged to douche it up with claim bots. It would give people something to go do when there's no shouts going on without bringing back the days of endless disappointment and it would be a major boon to people who can't get in high level events.

Can i say something? The part I bolded... You understand exactly whats being asked for.

Still, I respect you believe giving meaningful drops to something other than the same instanced garbage over and over is pointless... I respectfully disagree... I like variety in my MMO, and I don't find Variety in "Instance A... or instance B? I wonder", its true to some extent there is a bit of variety in these instances, but the open world is so d*mned boring and dead its lost all meaning. A lot of Final Fantasy titles have open world "NMs", Ruby Weapon, PuPu, FF12 Hunts... A lot of these you can see as big side missions and such, but you also have to consider that theres also a lot of optional NMs in Final Fantasy games that drop the best weapons or such... I mean, NMs in some way are a part of the final fantasy series, and I think they hold true to it for the most part with a lot of them being here and instanced.... but sometimes they were in the overworld, and I liked that about XI as well, it gave the world a sort of... wonder and purpose.

Still... All said and done, I would not be object to these NMs dropping high amounts of Bayld, Plasm, Onyx Fragments... something like that, but I imagine SE would not game for that. I still think having them drop non-R/ex stuff so people could always buy em if they didnt want to camp would be nice.

Further, even if the drops went to everyone, people would still be dicks... people are still dicks in instanced events too, people will be dicks always :\



Completely gone of the point - NM's that buff JSA's so they can just be macro-in pieces, they wouldn't be needed but could be nice - idea's neckpieces that have a certain JSA buff like for DNC - 'Augments Haste Samba' giving an additional 1-2% JA haste', COR 'Quick Draw -5' knock 5 seconds off it (obviously thatwould be giving up a MAB slot but who knows), SAM 'Augments Hasso' adds 2% haste or 15 STR to the JA when used - there is literally a mountain of things that could be introduced and it would give each NM a drop someone is going to want 22new NM's or just 11 as you could use one piece for 2 jobs.

I love this idea. Situational to good gear for a specific job. <3 - If its not another random Instance people will hate to hate cause brain no work.

Although, If i may be as bold? These "JSE" items could also come from Colonization Reives and such, so people who dont wanna camp NMs can take a shot at Reives. Give the NMs a high chance to drop (50%~) and Reives a lower chance (5%~). You then have to outlets for the equipment.

[Olor]

yeah, they could add them as a drop to the "hardmode" missions as well... god knows the drops on those missions seems to suck pretty badly so maybe having something slightly interesting drop from them a little more often wouldn't be terrible.

No one is saying "add frustrating NMs that all serious players will be forced to camp." Just something to make the zones feel less dead and dull would be nice. I'd be fine they dropped things that could be gotten elsewhere too (rieves are also not a bad idea). I'd love some "situational" or "better than sparks/bayld gear but not as good as delve" gear that I could hunt down myself on my own time.

[FrankReynolds]

Can i say something? The part I bolded... You understand exactly whats being asked for.

Still, I respect you believe giving meaningful drops to something other than the same instanced garbage over and over is pointless... I respectfully disagree... I like variety in my MMO, and I don't find Variety in "Instance A... or instance B? I wonder", its true to some extent there is a bit of variety in these instances, but the open world is so d*mned boring and dead its lost all meaning. A lot of Final Fantasy titles have open world "NMs", Ruby Weapon, PuPu, FF12 Hunts... A lot of these you can see as big side missions and such, but you also have to consider that theres also a lot of optional NMs in Final Fantasy games that drop the best weapons or such... I mean, NMs in some way are a part of the final fantasy series, and I think they hold true to it for the most part with a lot of them being here and instanced.... but sometimes they were in the overworld, and I liked that about XI as well, it gave the world a sort of... wonder and purpose.

Still... All said and done, I would not be object to these NMs dropping high amounts of Bayld, Plasm, Onyx Fragments... something like that, but I imagine SE would not game for that. I still think having them drop non-R/ex stuff so people could always buy em if they didnt want to camp would be nice.

Further, even if the drops went to everyone, people would still be dicks... people are still dicks in instanced events too, people will be dicks always :\



Just as long as it's not exclusive gear that is impossible / hard to get through other more reliable means. I spent way to many sleepless nights staring at the same stupid zone trying to get my e.body, black belt items etc. It was even more boring than wandering through an empty zone. It was sitting in an empty zone for hours / days in the same spot. Most of the time for no reason.

[Karbuncle]

Eeehhhh.... It wouldn't be any of that. I don't think a single sane person in this thread is asking for anything close to 24-72 hour HNM camping back. That was truly awful. feel I've repeated that more times than I can admit to.

1-2 hours waiting on Leaping Lizzy? not awful. its about the average runtime of a Delve from Shouting to finish.

[FrankReynolds]

Eeehhhh.... It wouldn't be any of that. I don't think a single sane person in this thread is asking for anything close to 24-72 hour HNM camping back. That was truly awful. feel I've repeated that more times than I can admit to.

1-2 hours waiting on Leaping Lizzy? not awful. its about the average runtime of a Delve from Shouting to finish.

Assuming the delve zone doesn't get claimed by another group 7 times in a row.

[Sandmaste]

Talking about time sinks and staying in the same zone for hours on end, that's exactly what SE has done with these crafting torques. Abyssea was very successful in its NM structure, if it means keeping everybody happy add pop items to drop from certain mob families (alongside a roaming NM that spawns every 20mins) that can be used to pop a NM that has a 33% chance at dropping a KI, one of up to 3 needed to then pop a NM that has good chance at some bad ass drops. The Abyssea structure was excellently put together, no harm in ripping off some of the successful elements to one of fans favorite era's in ffxi (and I will always say that if Abyssea came out 1 year earlier SE wouldn't have lost so many players - 4-5years of meripo's and side-grade end game activity rewards started to make people quit and so many did in that year before the level caps increased.