For comparable stat boosts, why can I offhand Shigi but not Kikoku?

[ZoMBie343]

Hi SE!
As a Ninja, why am I allowed to offhand a Shigi (JSE 119 Katana) for Accuracy AND Evasion +27! (and much more)...but I cannot offhand REM weapons (like 119 Kikoku) for Attack+40?

Can you please explain this to me? Can this be changed so that we can offhand R/E/M weapons for just stat boosts (not skill)?

Thank you!

[Demonjustin]

I very much agree with this, there's no reason that with their much lower DMG rating we shouldn't get their Attack & such with them in our offhand. The lower DMG and lack of Aftermath/ODD effects are enough to balance them, removing Attack/DEX and so on is overkill.

[ZoMBie343]

Bump. I really would like an answer here.

I'm very confused by this obvious limitation applied to R/E/M weapons.

[dasva]

Well I think it started way back when at 75 when +20 att or acc on the offhand was considered super awesome (it actually wasn't but I digress). It was decent and once uncommon but with the arrival of magian weapons tons off att or acc were easy to get on any weapon if you so wanted... which should've been clear that it wasn't OP and for a short time (I believe it was when they raised them to level 80 and 85) they did work offhand but then all of a sudden it was considered too powerful despite us having many weapons that also do the same thing.

Frankly I don't understand why things like OAT and ODD (or more for both) from them don't apply to the offhand as well. Especially now that we have offhand weapons with huge amounts of OAT. That's one huge advantage 2hd weapons always had in that every swing they could proc those things instead of just every other

[ZoMBie343]

I really would like to know why just the STATS of REM weapons cannot be included even when offhanded.

[ZoMBie343]

Bump. I would really like to see offhand-stats for REM weapons.

[ZoMBie343]

Yet another bump.

I really think with new JSE weapons being offhanded, like Shigi, that REM weapons being offhanded are no longer "too powerful".

[Okita]

I wholeheartedly agree with this. I upgraded relic and mythic on similar jobs so having this option would be a nice change considering both are comparably useless in offhand.

[ZoMBie343]

Bump.

SE, can you give us a hand here?

[Balloon]

More accurately, our offhand.

I'm sorry.

[ZoMBie343]

Yet another bump.

Even if REM weapons in offhand ONLY gave us Stat Boosts, I think this would be OK. You can even remove the occasionaly +15% damage on relic and the aftermath on empyrean and mythic weapons. Just give us the stats.

[ZoMBie343]

Yet another bump.

Even if REM weapons in offhand ONLY gave us Stat Boosts, I think this would be OK. You can even remove the occasionaly +15% damage on relic and the aftermath on empyrean and mythic weapons. Just give us the stats.

:(

[ZoMBie343]

Yet another bump.

Once again, offhanding a relic katana should be negligible (even without 15% 2.5x damage, i.e. STATS only) when compared to weapons like Shigi. This would also preserve balance for all R/E/M owners and add another dimension to multiple kinds of main/offhand combinations!

Please consider this SE!

[Myrhn]

Ýou are becoming annoying...

[Demonjustin]

So is SE's lack of changing this.

[Gwydion]

Come on SE!!!! :(

I can't offhand a Kannagi...

http://www.bg-wiki.com/images/5/5b/Kannagi_%28Level_119%29_description.png


....but I can offhand THIS?!

http://www.bg-wiki.com/images/f/f0/20988_description.png

[dasva]

Well you can offhand the Kannagi but you lose the aftermath

[Gwydion]

Well you can offhand the Kannagi but you lose the aftermath

Actually, I know that when you offhand relic katana you do NOT get Attack+40 ...I can't say if kannagi gives you AGI+20 in offhand. That was the point I was trying to make. Apologies if I wasn't clear.

[Byrth]

It does give you AGI+20 in the offhand.

[Gwydion]

It does give you AGI+20 in the offhand.

Thank you for confirming Byrth. However, relics still don't give you the aforementioned stat boosts, like Attack +40...which I think is the point of this thread.

[Byrth]

Rather than balance or any other similar reasons, I'm sure they're just too lazy to change it. Selectively filtering out some stats but not others is probably more difficult than just blanking them (as they do for relics/mythics currently).

Imagine the extreme case where they remove all restrictions and allow you to dual wield RMEs with full bonuses (including WS access for both and aftermath on the appropriate weapon). RMEs would generally become offhand weapons and in extreme zerg cases you might use two of them, but the resulting DPS boost would be relatively small.


PS. There have been dozens of threads about this made since the forums were opened, and I have posted in many of them in favor of the idea (still am in favor). However, given that 1H weapon users are in a better DD position than ever before, I think the timing is wrong to push this issue now.

[dasva]

Well some 1HD users... axe, club, and kat got very little in the 1hd ws update. It would be more apt to call it the dagger and swd buff update

[Olor]

Well some 1HD users... axe, club, and kat got very little in the 1hd ws update. It would be more apt to call it the dagger and swd buff update

yeah, Axe got the shaft

[Byrth]

Mistral Axe isn't quite as good as Savage Blade, but it's not terrible either.

[Aarahs]

Kikoku is not amused by your attempt to relegate it to the demeaning offhand slot and demands to know why such an insult should be tolerated.

[dasva]

Mistral Axe isn't quite as good as Savage Blade, but it's not terrible either.

It's ok but except on fairly evasive stuff or times when I have reason to save tp I tend to get more dmg from ruinator or even Decimation. Or the magical ones assuming you can gear, buff/debuff for them.

Mostly for axe the update seemed to bring a lot of the previously unusable axe ws up to ruinators level and give ruinator a slight bump. Which is somewhat nice to have more ws to choose from if only for skillchaining (which if they do give ready moves skillchain elements that might matter a lot) and might be cool if you can get into a pt with enough buffs and coordination that lets you self skillchain since I think bst might actually have the elements to 5 step. And it's also kind of nice not to feel so obligated to meriting Ruinator 5/5, but for right now the changes barely budged bst dps

[Gwydion]

I hope SE considers revisiting REM updates or offhanding REM weapons.

This was just released in March 2015:

https://www.bg-wiki.com/images/e/e6/Achiuchikapu_description.png

And this with Unity in January 2015:

https://www.bg-wiki.com/images/f/f0/20988_description.png

I don't understand why it is OK to offhand the above weapon, but not Relic or Empyrean weapons:

http://www.bg-wiki.com/images/5/5b/Kannagi_%28Level_119%29_description.png

https://www.bg-wiki.com/images/4/44/Kikoku_%28Level_119%29_description.png

I think we're approaching the limit of SE's argument for offhanding R/E/M's would be 'overpowered'.

[Sandmaste]

Im not sure if there is a cap on spell interuption rate down, but do you get the Spell interuption Down on the offhand Tancho because mainhanding the +1, off handing the NQ + merits your pretty much safe to become a lazy ninja and cast shadows whenever you please.

[dasva]

It caps at 100% but iirc it took around 104% to achieve. Back in the day it was kind of a thing with rdm/nin tanking

[Gwydion]

I hope SE considers revisiting REM updates or offhanding REM weapons.

This was just released in March 2015:

https://www.bg-wiki.com/images/e/e6/Achiuchikapu_description.png

And this with Unity in January 2015:

https://www.bg-wiki.com/images/f/f0/20988_description.png

I don't understand why it is OK to offhand the above weapon, but not Relic or Empyrean weapons:

http://www.bg-wiki.com/images/5/5b/Kannagi_%28Level_119%29_description.png

https://www.bg-wiki.com/images/4/44/Kikoku_%28Level_119%29_description.png

I think we're approaching the limit of SE's argument for offhanding R/E/M's would be 'overpowered'.

SE, care to comment on this or if you plan to update REM weapons at all? :(

[machini]

Honestly, the OA2/3 on Mythic 1 handers really should apply to both hands.

With a 2hander, like the SAM, WAR, or DRG mythics, you're looking at, at most, +80% DPS from the OA2/3. It will in practice be less, because you will already have DA TA and WA, but it is an insanely large boost.

On DNC, with AM3 up, I get 40% OA2 and 20% OA3... on my main hand, and main hand only. Which means that AM3 on a 1 handed mythic for a dual wielder is, at most, half as big of a boost as it is to a 2hander, or someone not dual wielding.

Of course, that will never happen, because tha twould mean SAM isn't the best DD job, and we can't have that.

[kaerin]

I think rme's should get everything when offhanded. The triple damage or whatever off handing mandau or kikoku or whatever would help make up the difference between 2 handed and 1 handed aftermath effects. Its a bit unfair that the delays are about the same, but 2 handed jobs get aftermath proc chances on every hit, but 1 handers don't.

That or they should let aftermaths proc on both hands when its up....

[dasva]

While we are at it should fix am3 for ranged mythics too...

[machini]

While we are at it should fix am3 for ranged mythics too...

How is the Occasionally deals double/triple damage broken?

[dasva]

How is the Occasionally deals double/triple damage broken?

Well unlike melee am3s it doesn't work on ws. Nor can it work on additional hits via barrage/double shot like relic procs do

Should also note that it being dmg instead of hits in and of itself is sort of broken. With additional hits you effectively get that double/triple dmg AND double/triple tp.

[machini]

Well unlike melee am3s it doesn't work on ws. Nor can it work on additional hits via barrage/double shot like relic procs do

Should also note that it being dmg instead of hits in and of itself is sort of broken. With additional hits you effectively get that double/triple dmg AND double/triple tp.

Isn't that problem specifically with the mechanics of how ranged attacks work, though?

[dasva]

Isn't that problem specifically with the mechanics of how ranged attacks work, though?

Not really sure what you mean by that

[Gwydion]

I hope SE considers revisiting REM updates or offhanding REM weapons.

This was just released in March 2015:

https://www.bg-wiki.com/images/e/e6/Achiuchikapu_description.png

And this with Unity in January 2015:

https://www.bg-wiki.com/images/f/f0/20988_description.png

I don't understand why it is OK to offhand the above weapon, but not Relic or Empyrean weapons:

http://www.bg-wiki.com/images/5/5b/Kannagi_%28Level_119%29_description.png

https://www.bg-wiki.com/images/4/44/Kikoku_%28Level_119%29_description.png

I think we're approaching the limit of SE's argument for offhanding R/E/M's would be 'overpowered'.

I'd like to get this thread back on track. Here we see a new Escha G.Axe with STR+40 and Attack+40. I think we should be allowed to offhand RMEs for full-effects now. (I also think we're due for some details about REM upgrades). I mean the Escha weapon has +16% or +20% base damage when compared to 119 relic and empy, while only a 3-4% increase in delay.

And it even glows! ...Come on SE!:

https://www.bg-wiki.com/images/e/e2/20847_description.png

https://www.bg-wiki.com/images/7/70/Ukonvasara_%28Level_119%29_description.png

https://www.bg-wiki.com/images/3/37/Bravura_%28Level_119%29_description.png

[Gwydion]

I'd like to get this thread back on track. Here we see a new Escha G.Axe with STR+40 and Attack+40. I think we should be allowed to offhand RMEs for full-effects now. (I also think we're due for some details about REM upgrades). I mean the Escha weapon has +16% or +20% base damage when compared to 119 relic and empy, while only a 3-4% increase in delay.

And it even glows! ...Come on SE!:

https://www.bg-wiki.com/images/e/e2/20847_description.png

https://www.bg-wiki.com/images/7/70/Ukonvasara_%28Level_119%29_description.png

https://www.bg-wiki.com/images/3/37/Bravura_%28Level_119%29_description.png

Bumping in the hopes that SE has some plans to augment REM weapons or at least let us offhand them. SE, any updates or plans?

Edit: apologies for necro post, I didnt see that this thread was started over a year ago...butthat is an awfully long time to go without a reply from SE.

I also noticed that new SR weapons are even more powerful and probably even dwarf some REM weapons:

https://cdn.bg-wiki.com/images/2/21/20844_description.png

The augments for this weapon are: DMG+15, STR+10, VIT+10 and double attack+3% ...our REMs need some love, SE. :(

[HopefulNAPlayer]

I think this thread raises a good point. Will we be able to offhand REMs when they are updated?

Edit: I mean to ask: will we be able to offhand REMs and get stat boosts (but no aftermath)? I think it's about time this was OK for us to do.