[dev1228] Ain't no noob gonna know which of the 100 NPCs in the zone is noob helper.

[Edyth]

These NPCs cannot have inconspicuous names. They need generic names that catch the eye because they show the NPC's purpose. Voidwatch Purveyor is a good example. No one has to guess which NPCs are Voidwatch Purveyors, because that's their name.

These NPCs need names those show their functions; otherwise, they just look like average NPCs who say nothing of importance. ESPECIALLY those cardians. NO ONE likes how Cardians talk. If these new cardians speak like RMTs trying to bypass chat filters like all the other Cardians, NO ONE will touch them with a nine-and-a-half-foot pole.

The developers' hearts are in the right place, but it's like making a beautiful present and then burying it in the most secluded corner of the recipient's backyard, making it look like it's not even there, and then expecting them to find it anytime soon.

Edit: I will take this opportunity to report all Cardians for bypassing RMT filters. Please ban them and remove them from the game. Except the ones we can kill.

[Sapphire]

And this is why we can't have nice things.

This is an RPG! In an RPG - YOU TALK TO NPCS! Often two to three times until they start to repeat themselves. Have players really gotten so spoiled they need arrows everywhere?

SE is doing something good for new players, but no, let's complain about it because this is as unpleasable a fanbase as you can get...

[Edyth]

And this is why we can't have nice things.

This is an RPG! In an RPG - YOU TALK TO NPCS! Often two to three times until they start to repeat themselves. Have players really gotten so spoiled they need arrows everywhere?

SE is doing something good for new players, but no, let's complain about it because this is as unpleasable a fanbase as you can get...

Get real. Most noobs are lazy and quit at the earliest sign of a struggle.

[Sapphire]

Get real. Most noobs are lazy and quit at the earliest sign of a struggle.

Most new players quit because they encounter lovely people who call them noobs and scoff at them.

If talking to NPCs is a "struggle" then I question why anyone plays any kind of RPG.

[Edyth]

Most new players quit because they encounter lovely people who call them noobs and scoff at them.

If talking to NPCs is a "struggle" then I question why anyone plays any kind of RPG.

I should clarify that with me, noob is a term of endearment for wide-eyed new players first experiencing this amazing game.

I should also clarify that, in principle, I 100% agree with what you're saying, Sapphire. It's a shame, though, that many gamers aren't this way anymore. My guess is that you're in your 20s or 30s, Sapphire, because that's the generation of gamer who talks to all the NPCs. I don't think a lot of new players are in their 20s and 30s though; I think most new players are teens, and the teen culture today, in the U.S., at least, is very attention deficit and gives up on the slightest challenge or time investment unless there is constant instant gratification. Factor in the fact that most teens can't afford subscriptions to 2 MMOs and that FFXIV offers instant gratification and excessive handholding, and you are making the choice clear for younger players.

My point:
It definitely isn't going to lose SE any players to give these NPCs names that reflect their purpose. However, giving these NPCs incognito names is going to cause some players to unsubscribe when they feel lost and overwhelmed by all that FFXI offers.

[Jedd]

Perhaps SE could give these NPCs some emotes, like waving or poking, to make them stand out from other townsfolk. Also might be helpful to have them /say something to the new player as they get close to alert them they have tutorial info to give.

They could check to see if the approaching player is new (play time below a certain value) and then perform the animation or /say help dialogue. Like, "Haven't seen you around here before, need some help?"

To prevent chat spam and general annoyance (not that many people even go to towns anymore...) the NPC's /say dialogue could maybe only be visible to the new player. Not sure if this is something SE could do. Has there been instances of this before?

[kallika]

Also i know that the Jack of whatever Npcs have a distinct way of talking and text which is for lore purposes, but please have them use normal text on these specific Npcs.

[Demonjustin]

Personally, I talk to every NPC in most RPGs to find quests and such, but FFXI is different.

To start playing this game you have to download it, install it, set up your account for it, and update it. It's very likely that these 4 things alone will take you roughly 24 hours or more, then you have to make your character and pick your nation. Some people will take a moment to look around online to find where they should choose to start. Finally, they get to play the game.

The first thing they encounter is a CS that takes them about 5~10 minutes depending on the zone they started in, a CS which truth be told isn't really exciting and doesn't really make you want to see more CSs right afterward. After this you can run around and talk to NPCs if you'd like, go into your MH and go through that tutorial, or go outside. Personally, I don't expect people to talk to NPCs off the bat, or really that people will want to talk to NPCs until a bit later down the line. I love RPGs, I normally talk to NPCs as often as I can, but the idea of doing that when from the start this game has shown long CSs which aren't very entertaining and simply getting to start the game itself has taken more than a day of waiting, yeah, I can do without the talking and get straight to the gameplay/fighting for a bit, I've waited long enough. At least, that's how I went about my starting of the game, as well as how I think I'd go about it in todays game.

[Raydeus]

Voidwatch Purveyors aren't named probably because they are the red shirts of XI. They die so often there's no point in giving them a names.

And about the newb npcs I'm completely in favor of keeping them the way they are, if newbies lack the skill to find them and can't understand the heroically mechanical speech of Cardians then they are not XI material.

[Lithera]

I'm having trouble figuring out if these are the same npcs you get told to go to after that opening CS to get those leet gills from after giving them your paper that you get at the start. So if I am correct then the game already will be shoving new players to these npcs.

[Vold]

They could just give these NPCs wild, colorful, out of place outfits to catch the eye. Such as Abyssea NPCs. Normal names but wild, eye catching outfits. You just see the outfit and you know their purpose. They can add text to the very first CS to give new players a clue.

Since the beginning NPCs with specific jobs were given specific outfits that identifies them. It works for us when we see them on sight and know what they are, why not new players?

[Stompa]

When you are born, you are a baby, and you can not speak English, and you can not walk, and you don't know what all the big objects in the world are.

You are not born as a baby who speaks fluent English and is able to drive cars and cook meals. You learn all this stuff, slowly over time, by absorbing information from the world around you. FFXI is no different, your New Adventurer is baby-like, and needs to explore surroundings the same way a toddler baby does. And as children make mistakes, and learn from "trial and error" so can you learn FFXI by just adventuring and talking to random NPC's.

In this analogy, the child's school would be replaced with the new player's ffxiclopedia info pages.

I learned what the NPC's wanted to talk to me about - by talking to them! If they didn't want to talk to me, I left them, but I would sometimes go back later to see if they had new things to say. It was fun!

By this method I learned a lot about the new areas. Also I like the fact they had real names, and look like real people. If they have a big glowing flag over their head and are called "Quest person for collecting moat carps" I would have totally, totally uninstalled FFXI after <Short time.>

[Grekumah]

Hello, everyone!

Thanks for the feedback! The development team had actually looked into adding some kind of special indication to the names of the NPCs, but they found that there were cases where the NPC name display would become cut off and it was difficult to address in the end.

However, to accommodate new players, along with the addition of these new NPCs in the August version update, we’ve also added a short segment introducing these NPCs in the opening cutscene. Additionally, we made it so the location of these NPCs are marked on the map during the opening cutscene.

We’d definitely like to hear from new players about these additions and if they have any suggestions for the future!

[Mizuno]

Get real. Most noobs are lazy and quit at the earliest sign of a struggle.

http://badsentinel.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Spiderman-Meme-26.jpg

[Draylo]

Please do NOT add little exclamation marks, that is the last thing the game needs haha.

[Kraggy]

I learned what the NPC's wanted to talk to me about - by talking to them! If they didn't want to talk to me, I left them, but I would sometimes go back later to see if they had new things to say. It was fun!
Because running around an entire city talking to every NPC in case they have something new to say to you because your rep is now higher when you knew nothing about the rep system because the game never mentions it except for an oblique set of replies from the 'rep NPC' that totally make no real sense until you read about it on-line .. is a great way to play.

You found it 'fun' you claim. I suspect you did little of that and ran for the fansites like every other NA/EU player ever did.

FFXI fundamentally fails as a game since you can only really play it by reading guides, the fact SE officially published 'Brady' is testament to the fact it was largely unplayable using only in-game information. The tutorial NPCs already added to the game, the tutorial section of ROE etc. are evidence of this original failure.

Nearly every quest is totally devoid of any real hint of what you have to do, and many quests actually revel in their total obscurity. I defy you or anyone else to say with a straight face you managed to get very far in any of the mission chains, let alone side-quests, without running to FFXIclopedia or something similar.

I know many FFXI 'vets' like to pose as superior as they had to do without it, fact is no non-JP player ever had to deal with the game without the crutch of FFXIclopedia and it's ilk.

[Stompa]

Because running around an entire city talking to every NPC in case they have something new to say to you because your rep is now higher when you knew nothing about the rep system because the game never mentions it except for an oblique set of replies from the 'rep NPC' that totally make no real sense until you read about it on-line .. is a great way to play.

You found it 'fun' you claim. I suspect you did little of that and ran for the fansites like every other NA/EU player ever did.

FFXI fundamentally fails as a game since you can only really play it by reading guides, the fact SE officially published 'Brady' is testament to the fact it was largely unplayable using only in-game information. The tutorial NPCs already added to the game, the tutorial section of ROE etc. are evidence of this original failure.

Nearly every quest is totally devoid of any real hint of what you have to do, and many quests actually revel in their total obscurity. I defy you or anyone else to say with a straight face you managed to get very far in any of the mission chains, let alone side-quests, without running to FFXIclopedia or something similar.

I know many FFXI 'vets' like to pose as superior as they had to do without it, fact is no non-JP player ever had to deal with the game without the crutch of FFXIclopedia and it's ilk.

My strat was always to run around spamming TAB and seeing if any of the NPCs reacted to the quests I was on lol. I would do that for hours in 2004, under the sweet Remora skies. Eventually I would either tie up the quest, or go online and seek help guides.

I'm sitting here next to bookcases that are full of stacks and stacks of (now valuable collectors items!) C&VG / Crash etc. magazines from the 1980s when I started mashing keyboards in 1981, I started buying the monthly computer mags and got all of them from the early 80s until the early 90s. Every month there would be pages of hints and tips for games, maps, diagrams etc. Without those guides even the simple 1980s 2D games were sometimes tricky to work out. And you had to go to the shop to buy the magazine and sit reading through it to hopefully find some advice about the game place you were stuck on.

And the point is that FFXI is a huge game, and if we needed hint guides for the simple 1980s games, you know we must need hint guides for the much more complex 21st century games like FFXI. And we have the luxury of the Web, just type the words into a little magic box. No running to the shop to buy magazines lol.

:p

[Vivivivi]

Please do NOT add little exclamation marks, that is the last thing the game needs haha.

I support this... 75%? One of the things I still love about XI is its sense of immersion with the lack of in-game icons and such. I however wouldn't be opposed to this feature so long as the player has a ? icon next to their name which I think goes away after level 10. It would be helpful for new players.

[camaroz]

I mean really why don't they add a Navi. It can say hey listen or look!

[Kari]

Please do NOT add little exclamation marks, that is the last thing the game needs haha.

I'm mixed on this. Exclamation marks wouldn't work in FFXI because the quest system is already so odd. It's not a typical MMO where quests give exp/money and occasionally equipment. 99% of them give you nothing of worth.

But I am supportive of anything that gets new players going. I cannot invite a friend to play FFXI and expect them to enjoy it without my help.
New players want to know what they should be doing. My biggest complaint from starting this game was that I didn't know what I was supposed to be doing. The answer ended up being whatever I want, but it took a long time for me to be comfortable with that.

Most MMOs have a main story to guide you along the game, then you get into endgame where most of the game is. FFXI just expects you to grind to 75+ before you do anything cool. Missions start off really slow and boring. And as I said, most quests are pointless. With the current state of the game, the goals of a new player are to get 99 + merits, subjob, cap fame + gobbiebags, and start grinding endgame gear while finishing up missions. Missions are basically just a load of work at this point, nobody does them at the appropriate levels because there's no reason to. Anything solo pre-99 wasn't fun anyways, and good luck getting parties for missions.

Starting to ramble, but yeah. Anything that gives new players a goal is welcome. Though, idk where SE expects new players to come from. FFXI isn't worth a subscription fee anymore, especially if you're new. (You will not get your money's worth as a brand new player in the first month, fact.)

[Raydeus]

Because running around an entire city talking to every NPC in case they have something new to say to you because your rep is now higher when you knew nothing about the rep system because the game never mentions it except for an oblique set of replies from the 'rep NPC' that totally make no real sense until you read about it on-line .. is a great way to play.

You found it 'fun' you claim. I suspect you did little of that and ran for the fansites like every other NA/EU player ever did.

Personally I find it fun to do to this day (I spent hours just running around and talking to Adoulin NPCs not long ago), but since I'm a quest/mission oriented gamer I never had to suffer with lack of fame so never had much use for rep checkers.

Although you are right, if you are new and only care about specific quests to advance then the fame system would be a complete wall for you. I assume it to be just poor localization, but either way Fame NPCs should be made more... famous around town. :cool: *ba dum psh*


FFXI fundamentally fails as a game since you can only really play it by reading guides, the fact SE officially published 'Brady' is testament to the fact it was largely unplayable using only in-game information. The tutorial NPCs already added to the game, the tutorial section of ROE etc. are evidence of this original failure.

There are brady guides or similar for most games though, this includes the modern hand holding games like WoW and XIV, and it has nothing to do with the game being playable or not, it's just that some people like buying guides for games.

Also, let's not forget Brady in particular has always been famous for it's extremely poor information and completely wrong directions and hints on a regular basis.

That said, I do agree that in many cases quests were too vague about the objectives you were supposed to complete, and NPC dialogue should've been revised to present the quest in a better way. BUT ! marks and handholding arrows on the map are NOT the way to do it. Just play XIV for a bit and you'll see just how much the world loses in terms of immersion when you do that.


Nearly every quest is totally devoid of any real hint of what you have to do, and many quests actually revel in their total obscurity. I defy you or anyone else to say with a straight face you managed to get very far in any of the mission chains, let alone side-quests, without running to FFXIclopedia or something similar.

I have for the most part. Yes, there are many quests that are way too vague to complete on your own, specially those that require some obscure item you really have no idea where to obtain or if it's even the right one if you obtain it because there is no log change nor any hint on the item itself.

But other than that I rarely use the wiki to "solve" quests themselves, and only use it for the aforementioned item quests or to cut search time of ???s in areas I already know. For SoA missions I usually found the places for the missions while exploring the areas, same with WotG and previous expansions before that. But I'm the kind of player that likes to explore areas so I usually know where the triggers may be once I need them.

I guess it depends on your playstyle, but at least to me the most important aspect of questing in XI is that I read every single line NPCs say, and I find it interesting. Which contrasts completely with almost all other Online games I've tried.

Take XIV for instance, I don't know what it was, but I found myself skipping 90% of NPC dialogue and just accepting quests blindly instead of actually bothering to read. Something I would never, ever have done in XI. And sure enough, the world became far less interesting as a result and I ended up not giving a flying damn about any NPC in that game. And barely remember the names of any npcs from the main story.

Whereas I remember almost all NPCs I've talked to in XI in one way or another. From the way Yoran Oran speaks to how silly the King of Fab is to how that taru girl Kipopo shred the handbag his father Hampu-Kampu had made in the war era.

And that is the definitive difference that separates XI from all the other games out there for me. Something that will be lost the moment you trivialize actually paying attention to what NPCs in the world say to you.

And really, if a player is going to skip it all they can just have ffxiclopedia open on their cellphones and be done with the quests if they really have to anyway.

No need to alter the way the game works, just need to revise and update the dialogue of the many quests that are way too vague to complete without wiki.

[Xysto]

They really need to do something with the npcs, there is so much random npcs are not labeled. i had a hard time looking for augs/key items/skirmish pop items/ delve pop item hp- byalds ect . because i'm a returning player and i really feel overwhelm

It's sad that people needs to google everything on this game to get things done.

[Pixela]

All that needs to be done is make the name of important npcs to a different color or add emotes to them, waving etc.

People who want lore can talk to them all, people that want a quest, utility or information npc can know which are which.

I've been playing FFXI for 8 years or so. I've done almost everything there is to do at endgame, leveled every job aside from the 2 new ones in that time, done all the content.

I also skip past almost all cut-scenes (not interesting missions but that's the minority), don't read most of the dialogue and only talk to npcs I need to for quests and missions. To say that people who don't talk to every npc aren't FFXI players is retarded, as retarded as saying people that don't like chocolate ice cream aren't ice cream people.

Remember FFXI is a game that needs new players more than new players need FFXI, especially now that Square has a new peacock MMO to preen.

[Lithera]

Too bad they already said they couldn't do the color scheme.