Next R/M/E Update

[Rubicant82]

With new weapons being tossed in to the mix on the 12th, I was wondering what the Dev teams plan was on ensuring that the R/M/E weapons do not become inundated again like they were before the 119 upgrade. I know SE wants people to do the new content, so maybe if there was something in the new content that was the upgrade item that would be awesome. Even if it is not a higher ilvl (iirc we are going to be at 119 for a while), just more skill or more stats of some sort (INT on blm mythic would make me love you all forever).


Side note to that... could the Relic Staff get some SMN love too :-3 please, it is awesome for blm ... but not so much for smn.

[Grekumah]

The development team will be looking into upgrading R/M/E gear once they have implemented item level 120+. With that said, please understand that we have no concrete details to share in regards to when this (R/M/E upgrades & Item Level 120+) will be happening; just know that there are plans in the works!

[pretre]

wow quick response, I like it, hows about while your paying such good attention to us you ask the dev team to let us sell our cruor again as the ways of earning gill have become stale again with just dyna and salvage being the only real options even though im alch 100

[Malthar]

And thus the cycle continues. I wonder how long after iLvl120+ rme upgrades till they become obsolete again?

With every update and the introduction of new weapons, rme's should always get a bump up so then can keep their edge.

[Demonjustin]

Really, I hope 120+ never happens. I could list off a ton of gear from 99 such as Serpentes, Nares, Seidr, Empyrean gear, and so on, all of which are not even into item levels. If we go into 120 not only will a ton of things be outdated once again but even more gear will be left behind. If I'm still going into content such as Delve II but at even higher levels but I'm keeping on gear with the DEF of a 99 thanks to not being updated, not to mention items like Seidr which flat out make your DMG & Accuracy lower but have valuable side bonus' then I'm screwed. Going up higher is only going to make people mad and make things worse, same as it did last time. This game and it's long term goal mentality is why increasing the cap is never going to really be a good idea.

[Rubicant82]

They said that we will progress to higher iLvLs a while back, but that we would be capped at 119 for a "while" how long a while is well only the Devs know that, but it doesn't matter. The game has to continue to move forward, I just hope that R/M/E get updated sooner than later this time around. Thank you for the quick response Grekumah! Even if your avatar is a pudding *resists his blm urges to NUKE* :E

[Malthar]

Camate already has his eye on that one. It's said that he's partial to puddings.

[Aeron]

The development team will be looking into upgrading R/M/E gear once they have implemented item level 120+. With that said, please understand that we have no concrete details to share in regards to when this (R/M/E upgrades & Item Level 120+) will be happening; just know that there are plans in the works!

This is awesome just to know that it is happening I don't even care when it happens. Can the devs please include shields and instruments in the upgrade as well? Ochain and Aegis are in serious need of at least an increase to 119 let alone whatever level you decide the next upgrade will be to.

[Malthar]

Yes, the low level shields affect our iLvl.

[Shirai]

The development team will be looking into upgrading R/M/E gear once they have implemented item level 120+. With that said, please understand that we have no concrete details to share in regards to when this (R/M/E upgrades & Item Level 120+) will be happening; just know that there are plans in the works!

All I am asking, no, am begging for is that it won't take as long this time.

[Afania]

The development team will be looking into upgrading R/M/E gear once they have implemented item level 120+. With that said, please understand that we have no concrete details to share in regards to when this (R/M/E upgrades & Item Level 120+) will be happening; just know that there are plans in the works!


I hope empy get a WS dmg+ or higher stat when next tier of ilv come, atm it's more expensive than a mythic with less DPS.

[Aeron]

I hope empy get a WS dmg+ or higher stat when next tier of ilv come, atm it's more expensive than a mythic with less DPS.

This please, there is really no reason why making a wpn that costs around 200m gil should not have a multiplier for the ws that it was originally associated with.

Is there going to be an increase to the overall stats to REM this next time or is it just going to be a dps upgrade like last time from 99-119?

[pretre]

I do agree that rem should get a damage bump as its starting to get left behind and yes I was one of the main people /crying on these forums when they forgot the rem weapons in the first place but I do feel happy to know that the weapon that took me a year to make will keep getting updated after every ilvl jump without me having to try to start a revolution every day on the forums to get that but please don't wait so long next time, and let us sell our cruor

[Damane]

I hope empy get a WS dmg+ or higher stat when next tier of ilv come, atm it's more expensive than a mythic with less DPS.

ergon RUN and GEO would like a word with you...

[Afania]

ergon RUN and GEO would like a word with you...

Ergon weapons are job changing though, besides harp empy weapons are crap for it's price.

Before mythic became soloable, it's the hardest weapon to obtain, thus the price was justified. Atm it's much cheaper than cinder empy, and most DD mythics are a whole lot better, mage mythic also offers unique stat. Compare with mythic, empy is the weakest of all 3 legendary weapon. It doesn't offer unique attribute, it doesn't offer awesome DPS.

Since most mythic has unique attribute for the job, empy should offer the highest DPS IMO.

[Byrth]

WS changes would be fine and good, but Empyreans also need a minor base damage boost (relative to Relics and Mythics). SE just messed up when they released the last set of values, really. It's possible that they were still considering Empyrean WS access to be one of the selling points of the weapons, but the quest to unlock those WSs pretty much took care of that.

Example:
* Twashtar has D89, 176 delay, DEX+20, and using Rudra's Storm gives a 30-50% Double damage aftermath (tends towards the 30%).
* Mandau has D91, 176 delay, Attack+40, Additional Effect: Poison, and gives access to Mercy Stroke (with damage+40%), and 13% Triple damage on the first swing with that hand (about the same as 15% double damage with current gear). Mercy Stroke gives a +5% Critical hit rate (including both hands and WS, iirc) aftermath.

So Mandau is basically a stronger half-AM Twashtar that doesn't rely on aftermath and gives access to Mercy Stroke. Twashtar's Aftermath effect is stronger than Mandau's but Mandau's isn't worthless either ('specially considering Evisceration) and Mercy Stroke is pretty cool and beats Rudra's Storm (which Mandau users also have access to) when stacked at 1000TP.

[Audard]

R/E/M needs a massive overhaul to begin with.
First and foremost, HMPs need to be obtained from more places.
Every VWNM should drop either several plates or a pouch. Chance of pouch varies on the tier, so if you are fighting a sandy T1 NM it is like 1% and if you are fighting Pil its like 10%.
Final stage of Empy should not be 3000...

Mythic weapons just need to be redone from scratch.
Never forget when these came out, it was the biggest laugh and still is.
Some have weird and obnoxious WS modifiers and others are just plain useless.
Alexandrites... this is the most discussed problem in R/E/Ms along side HMPs. 30,000 is beyond a joke. Make it 10,000 and increase ways to obtain slightly.
These are just some quick thoughts, i would love to go deeper but time is money!

[Protey]

R/E/M needs a massive overhaul to begin with.
First and foremost, HMPs need to be obtained from more places.
Every VWNM should drop either several plates or a pouch. Chance of pouch varies on the tier, so if you are fighting a sandy T1 NM it is like 1% and if you are fighting Pil its like 10%.
Final stage of Empy should not be 3000...

Mythic weapons just need to be redone from scratch.
Never forget when these came out, it was the biggest laugh and still is.
Some have weird and obnoxious WS modifiers and others are just plain useless.
Alexandrites... this is the most discussed problem in R/E/Ms along side HMPs. 30,000 is beyond a joke. Make it 10,000 and increase ways to obtain slightly.
These are just some quick thoughts, i would love to go deeper but time is money!

i have no problem with it being 30,000 alexandrite. strangely enough, i get 30,000 in roughly the same time it takes me to do 50 assaults + 150,000 tokens from nyzul.

[InpendingDeath]

R/E/M needs a massive overhaul to begin with.
First and foremost, HMPs need to be obtained from more places.
Every VWNM should drop either several plates or a pouch. Chance of pouch varies on the tier, so if you are fighting a sandy T1 NM it is like 1% and if you are fighting Pil its like 10%.
Final stage of Empy should not be 3000...

Mythic weapons just need to be redone from scratch.
Never forget when these came out, it was the biggest laugh and still is.
Some have weird and obnoxious WS modifiers and others are just plain useless.
Alexandrites... this is the most discussed problem in R/E/Ms along side HMPs. 30,000 is beyond a joke. Make it 10,000 and increase ways to obtain slightly.
These are just some quick thoughts, i would love to go deeper but time is money!

Plates aren't the problem, there the easy part. The problem is Cinders/Dross. No one does these NMs anymore cause they'd rather do T3s and reforge material VWs. You can join T3s and buy all the plates and do pouch NMs which people still do and get plates easy. If it's too hard for you don't do it.

[machini]

i have no problem with it being 30,000 alexandrite. strangely enough, i get 30,000 in roughly the same time it takes me to do 50 assaults + 150,000 tokens from nyzul.

I'm currently putting together a mythic, and helping a friend make their second relic. From my point of view, the problem with mythics is that they are the only choice for ToAU and Wings jobs these days.

Non 119 weapons are useless in 119 content. COR, PUP, DNC, and SCH cannot equip Relic weapons, for reasons. Empyrean weapons are so stupidly hard to get to 99 to 119 them due to 1500 HMP and the other requirements they have to get past 90. So for those of us who have not been playing continuously since the game launched and do not have maxed gil and were not able to do Nyzul, Salvage, and Voidwatch when those were the end game hot content, we have neither the money for Empyrean weapons, nor the saved up ichor and tokens so many other people seem to have (or claim to have.)

One person I spoke to a month or so ago said that Mythics weren't hard because he could just go and straight up buy all the alexandrite he needed, or would except for the cat's eye he has rotting in his storage, and that he has plenty of ichor and tokens to make one, he just doesn't need one. While I am somewhat dubious as to his claim, I have heard other, similar things from other players who have been playing for the better part of a decade, and were able to do this content back when it was the hot stuff and so have amassed a good deal of the required currency.

Furthermore, let's compare what it takes to make the REM weapons.

I have four friends who are helping me with the mythic, and we are also helping one of those people with a relic, and then will be rotating through people to do more relics.

A relic requires ~18,000 currency (I like round numbers because math is hard.)
We average ~330 currency per person per day we do Dynamis together, even if we have to compete for spawns with others, as we have become exceedingly efficient at this.
That's ~1600 currency per day. Which is 12 days to make a relic. Or, at least, to get all the currency to make one. So, working together, the five of us can make a relic in as long as it takes to do the in game waits for the stage turn ins.

A mythic requires 150,000 Tokens, 100,000 Ichor, 30,000 Alexandrite, and recompleting all 50 assaults. Not even gonna get into the ZNM stuff.
We seem to be able to start on floor 96 of Nyzul and do 10 floors reliably. If we alternate who spends tokens to start it, that's ~3500 tokens per day. So that's 43 days of Nyzul for the tokens require. It's slightly less if you include the arm band, but not significantly less. The easiest way to get ichor would be the five of us and a mule doing T3 einherjar. So that's just under 2000 ichor per day, so just over 50 days of doing Einherjar to get all the ichor required. Then there's recompleting all the assaults, and, assuming you get no failures, that's 50 days. As to the alexandrite, 5 people averaging about 100 Alexandrite per day is 60 or so days to get all 30,000 Alexandrite. Salvage and Einherjar can be done concurrently with assault, but Nyzul and other assaults all require tags, which you get one of per day. So it takes ~93 Tags, and therefore ~93 days, to get all the assault and nyzul done. So it takes 93 days to do a single mythic.

I'm not even going to get into Empyrean as that's just too depressing.

But to compare, it takes us ~2 weeks to pop out a relic and ~3 months to do a mythic (minimum). This is with FIVE people working together. So a relic we make takes about 120 man hours to make. A mythic would require about two hours per day of effort just for Nyzul/Assault, Einherjar, and Salvage. So a mythic for us will have required 930 man hours to make. Which is just under 8x as long in terms of total effort invested.

Now, that is with five people. Solo, I can get about 250 currency per day pretty easily, more if I actually make an effort. So 18,000 currency at 250 per day is 72 days, or 144 man hours to make. To make a mythic solo would require about three hundred days of effort to get all the alexandrite solo doing salvage, and five other people's help to do Einherjar. So ~100 days of assaults/nyzul and ~300 days of Salvage comes out to ~530 man hours to make, spread over almost a whole year. So in the time it takes someone to make a mythic solo (assuming they can get bodies for einherjar, and ignoring ZNM stuff), you can make almost 4 relics, solo, in the time it takes to make one mythic.

Considering the relative power levels of relics to mythics, and the fact that, on my server at least, some jobs are considered trash no matter how well they are geared, mythic or not, relics are either too easy to get or mythics are too hard to get. Which hits COR PUP DNC and SCH harder than the other pre-Seekers jobs, since they cannot use Relics and Empyrean are even harder to get (and not as good).

I guess the tl;dr: of this would be that mythics are stupid hard for anyone who has not been playing this game for a continuous decade, and I think that people who have been playing this game for that long and have stockpiles of all the non-seekers currencies forget that other players don't have the same resources and lose sight of how ridiculously hard it is to make mythics.

So either make Ichor and Tokens more easily obtainable, via either AMAN Currency Exchange or just increasing the amount received, and either lower the alexandrite requirement or drastically increase the drop rate.

I eagerly await the flaming, as it's very cold in my room.

[Protey]

We seem to be able to start on floor 96 of Nyzul and do 10 floors reliably. If we alternate who spends tokens to start it, that's ~3500 tokens per day. So that's 43 days of Nyzul for the tokens require.

I guess the tl;dr: of this would be that mythics are stupid hard for anyone who has not been playing this game for a continuous decade, and I think that people who have been playing this game for that long and have stockpiles of all the non-seekers currencies forget that other players don't have the same resources and lose sight of how ridiculously hard it is to make mythics.


10 floors? really? urdoinitwrong. i go 2x DD + brd and get to floor 15 - 20, starting at 96. that's 20 to 25 floors. getting anywhere between 8k and 10k tokens. If you take more than 3 you'll get a penalty, but that's your choice. You still should be getting way more than 10 floors done.

And no, even though I have made 5 mythics I did not have any stored currency. It takes roughly 69 days at 8k tokens a day to make a mythic (assuming you already had captain).

The only hard part really about doing mythics is getting people to do a few of the assaults with you that are unsoloable. The rest is just a grind. In comparison, empyreans are easy solo, relics are easy solo, and ergons are easy solo... at least while people still do delve so you can get your plasm. Most of REME are just a grind and not difficult. They only become difficult when you have parts that you can't solo and there aren't others readily willing to help (assaults, and one day delve). You at least have a group willing to help you so you should be thankful for that at least.

[machini]

10 floors? really? urdoinitwrong. i go 2x DD + brd and get to floor 15 - 20, starting at 96. that's 20 to 25 floors. getting anywhere between 8k and 10k tokens. If you take more than 3 you'll get a penalty, but that's your choice. You still should be getting way more than 10 floors done.

And no, even though I have made 5 mythics I did not have any stored currency. It takes roughly 69 days at 8k tokens a day to make a mythic (assuming you already had captain).

The only hard part really about doing mythics is getting people to do a few of the assaults with you that are unsoloable. The rest is just a grind. In comparison, empyreans are easy solo, relics are easy solo, and ergons are easy solo... at least while people still do delve so you can get your plasm. Most of REME are just a grind and not difficult. They only become difficult when you have parts that you can't solo and there aren't others readily willing to help (assaults, and one day delve). You at least have a group willing to help you so you should be thankful for that at least.

Would you mind telling me how you get the Ichor? Last time I checked, Einherjar has a six player minimum.

As to Nyzul, we have not done five man nyzul yet. We've done three, and we can't do more than 10 floors reliably. Just can't figure it out.

'cause honestly, at this point, we've wracked our brains and researched everything we could find on how to do these things as quickly and efficiently as we can, and we can't seem to get it going any faster.

[machini]

Furthermore, could you please explain to me how you get 30k Alexandrite in 69 days? Considering you'd have to be getting 434 alex a day to do that. So, either you're running salvage on multiple characters, you're buying alex, or you're cheating to be able to rerun sections of salvage.

[machini]

Also, I'm calling bullshit on your claim that Empyrean weapons are easy solo. Please explain how you get 1500 HMP and 60 Riftdross EASY solo.

[machini]

Oh. And you claim ERGON weapons are easy SOLO, too. You're either a cheater or a liar, or both.

[Protey]

Would you mind telling me how you get the Ichor? Last time I checked, Einherjar has a six player minimum.

As to Nyzul, we have not done five man nyzul yet. We've done three, and we can't do more than 10 floors reliably. Just can't figure it out.

'cause honestly, at this point, we've wracked our brains and researched everything we could find on how to do these things as quickly and efficiently as we can, and we can't seem to get it going any faster.

ichor: it does not have a 6 player minimum, though i recommend with at least brd + blm or brd + blu. if you go with less than 6 you only get 10 minutes to complete... which is plenty of time.

nyzul: BRD does marcato victory march + advancing march + paeon 5 + paeon 6. my brd has carnwenhan so songs last just shy of 10 minutes. the 2 DD go /war and use movement speed gear.

[Protey]

Furthermore, could you please explain to me how you get 30k Alexandrite in 69 days? Considering you'd have to be getting 434 alex a day to do that. So, either you're running salvage on multiple characters, you're buying alex, or you're cheating to be able to rerun sections of salvage.

i do 2x salvage a day, and yes i have more than one character. and yes i buy alex. and no i don't cheat.

[Protey]

Also, I'm calling bullshit on your claim that Empyrean weapons are easy solo. Please explain how you get 1500 HMP and 60 Riftdross EASY solo.

buy them, just like relic currency for relics.

[Byrth]

I duo Einherjar with another fellow. Einherjar does have a 6 man minimum if you're going to stay more than 10 minutes, but you can clear all Tier 3 chambers in under 10 minutes with two players. Use a Blue Mage or Black Mage set up for AoE damage and a healer.

We do Tier 3 Einherjar as BLM + WHM -> Use Tear / Wing to enter Odin solo on SMN -> repeat.

It averages out to about 2.5k Ampuoles a day.

[Protey]

Oh. And you claim ERGON weapons are easy SOLO, too. You're either a cheater or a liar, or both.

you are crass. but to answer your allegations: don't need to cheat to get H-P Bayld, just go do coalition assignments and reives or buy from bazaars. While it is possible to solo plasm and it is quite easy to do so, it is not recommended as it would take a very long time compared with joining a group to do delve 1-5 + boss.

[Malthar]

Let me weigh in on this.

Protey, you cannot compare what we did on Leviathan to what other people are able to do on other servers.
Remeber, in Leviathan we did 5+boss for delve, no problem? We even low manned it. A lot of people still think the game is difficult because they haven't gotten into the zone. It's no fault of theirs, or of ours. For example, here on Shiva almost everyone beads out 2-3 NM's to get to the boss. I have been trying my darndest to show them that they don't need to bead out anything. That 5+boss can be done easily and reliably. All it takes is coordination, communication, and no psycho's to frazzle everyone's nerves.

And as for making mythics, relics, and empyreans, they really are not that difficult. All is takes is setting up a routine every day, and sticking to it. I remember when I used to do 100-200 coins a day in dynamis. But I stuck to it, improved on my methodologies and setups, and particularly didn't get bat-$hit crazy when people offered me advice. If people offer you advice, be it through a friendly, unfriendly, sarcastic, straight forward way, take it. It's not the advice that's malevolent. It's the person. But if it actually is good advice, take it. I now make 900 coins on a bad day and 1500+ on a good day just because I refined my methodology.

I used to think that making relics was too difficult and impossible. But then I brushed that chip off my shoulder and practiced patience, humility, and systematically ground out several. I used to also think that mythics were an impossibility, until I saw that several people were making them. So I practiced my aforementioned techniques and made one in a little more time than it took to complete all the assaults. The only reason why I didn't finish all of my assaults were complete is because I broke my technique and skipped dynamis and salvage several times. But if I had stuck to it, I would have had a significant amount of gil/alex/einherjar points left over. Now I'm starting on my second mythic, and that one is scheduled to be completed on time. Then I'll do a third, then fourth, etc...

And Machini, I can attest that Protey does not cheat nor lie. Arrows are jealous of him because he's so straight. I've offered a few times to find people to pull that 2x4 out of his a$$, but he has declined every time. :-D Love you Protey!

So, the point of all this is that even though Protey is coming off in an obnoxious way (love you Protey! :), he really is giving you good advice. Take it and have your mythic.

Oh! Oh! One extra thing. One beastmaster with a rabbit can solo einherjar quite easily. Just round all the mobs up then spam whirl claws and and every wave will be dead in 1 to 2 minutes.

[machini]

Let me weigh in on this.

Protey, you cannot compare what we did on Leviathan to what other people are able to do on other servers.
Remeber, in Leviathan we did 5+boss for delve, no problem? We even low manned it. A lot of people still think the game is difficult because they haven't gotten into the zone. It's no fault of theirs, or of ours. For example, here on Shiva almost everyone beads out 2-3 NM's to get to the boss. I have been trying my darndest to show them that they don't need to bead out anything. That 5+boss can be done easily and reliably. All it takes is coordination, communication, and no psycho's to frazzle everyone's nerves.

And as for making mythics, relics, and empyreans, they really are not that difficult. All is takes is setting up a routine every day, and sticking to it. I remember when I used to do 100-200 coins a day in dynamis. But I stuck to it, improved on my methodologies and setups, and particularly didn't get bat-$hit crazy when people offered me advice. If people offer you advice, be it through a friendly, unfriendly, sarcastic, straight forward way, take it. It's not the advice that's malevolent. It's the person. But if it actually is good advice, take it. I now make 900 coins on a bad day and 1500+ on a good day just because I refined my methodology.

I used to think that making relics was too difficult and impossible. But then I brushed that chip off my shoulder and practiced patience, humility, and systematically ground out several. I used to also think that mythics were an impossibility, until I saw that several people were making them. So I practiced my aforementioned techniques and made one in a little more time than it took to complete all the assaults. The only reason why I didn't finish all of my assaults were complete is because I broke my technique and skipped dynamis and salvage several times. But if I had stuck to it, I would have had a significant amount of gil/alex/einherjar points left over. Now I'm starting on my second mythic, and that one is scheduled to be completed on time. Then I'll do a third, then fourth, etc...

And Machini, I can attest that Protey does not cheat nor lie. Arrows are jealous of him because he's so straight. I've offered a few times to find people to pull that 2x4 out of his a$$, but he has declined every time. :-D Love you Protey!

So, the point of all this is that even though Protey is coming off in an obnoxious way (love you Protey! :), he really is giving you good advice. Take it and have your mythic.

Oh! Oh! One extra thing. One beastmaster with a rabbit can solo einherjar quite easily. Just round all the mobs up then spam whirl claws and and every wave will be dead in 1 to 2 minutes.

Part of the problem I have with people who make claims like yours and Protey's is that they are constantly bragging about "I can make xxx amount of item a day" and never ever want to share how they manage to do that.

Or like with clearing 20-25 floors of Nyzul: How? That comes out to 90 seconds to to 72 seconds per floor, or less. So I really don't see how you can complete that legitimately in that time period with only three people.

Now, once again: It could totally be possible. But no one fucking feels like sharing these things, 'cause they might lose their monopoly.

And as to server to server differences: I have brought that up before, and no one believed me. I have seen things like mythic monks getting turned down for things because Glanzfaust isn't Oatixur, and Oatixur is 'the best'. There are other examples of stupidity of the player base on my server I could give, but this is a problem that comes up constantly with trying to do anything, and that is it looks like the majority of players on my server are brain dead idiots who can't even follow the simplest directions.

I once did Ceizak delve with a linkshell. We were all on voice chat. The person leading it went over the gimmicks for each mob, and had everyone sound off, either on voice chat or in game, and then we went in. Now, there was one monk in specific who was on voice chat with us, and had been speaking in voice chat. Everyone had been told not to do anything that debuffs on the gnat NM, especially MNKs should not use Shijin Spiral to avoid getting that debuff on all the melee dds. So what does this MNK do? Spam Shijin Spiral constantly on that NM, despite people in party, linkshell, and voice chat telling him to stop. All he did was spam Shijin Spiral over and over, dragging that fight out far longer than it should have gone, while demanding haste the whole time.

Another example would be trying to do things with an A/O PLD who doesn't know what supertanking is. But has been playing the game for years.

That's seriously about average for players on my server. Finding someone who is both well geared, able to follow directions, and has enough brain cells to understand why the directions are there is extremely difficult.

Between the shitty player base who can't be trusted with anything but the most absolutely foolproof strategies for things because they can't be trusted to do anything which requires more thought, even if it's better, and the RMTs constantly ruining the markets on crafting items, and players who have been playing for a decade who a) never feel like sharing any information on how to do things as well as they do, and b) have so much money that can literally buy almost anything they want and have a frustrating inability to understand what it's like to not have shit tons of gil to buy things with, it drives me crazy.

I am tired of seeing BRDS play two songs and then pick their noses in content because they can get away with that because you "absolutely must have a BRD for absolutely everything no matter what."
I am tired of seeing braindead MNKs who can't do anything but auto attack and WS, and don't know what formless strikes is despite being fully delve geared.
I am tired of seeing PLDs who don't know what supertanking is, despite having Aegis, Ochain, and full 119 reforge and D Rings.
I am tired of seeing people who don't understand things like how Trick Attack works, what cover does, why you'd use Formless Strikes, because they sped to 99 as fast as they could and never had to learn how to play a job.
I am tired of these people who refuse to believe anything anyone says about how the game works because they play "shit" jobs that are "completely useless" -- because they don't understand anything other than 'throw MNKs and SAMs at the problem'.
I am tired of people intentionally wiping delve runs because they refused to listen to directions and got themselves killed via their own stupidity.
I am tired of people ragequitting in the middle of delve runs because they refused to listen to directions and got themselves killed via their own stupidity, the rest of us going on, and finding out that had the person just waited until weakness wore, we would have won, but failed due to lack of damage.

Above all, I am tired of more experienced players who brag about their exploits and prowess, and never seem to want to actually share how to do these things. I am tired of scouring the internet for guides and tips for things, and never actually finding anything on them, or anyone willing to help me understand how to do something, or why it's done that way so I can get a better grasp of the mechanics. I am tired of dealing with people who constantly spout off about how everything I find difficult is 'easy', but never actually want to explain the strategy they use for it, or why it works.

I am angry. I'll admit that. I do not claim to be the best player, either in skill, gear, or technical understanding of how the game works. But I am tired of all my attempts to gain knowledge being thwarted by people who never seem to want to actually explain anything. I am tired of getting turned down for content that I have breezed through with friends because other players refuse to take a DNC on anything. I am tired of being told I am a fucking idiot for working on Terpsichore because its a "waste" of a mythic and DNC is a "shit" job that's "completely useless." I used to play RDM, and then found that no one seemed to want a RDM for anything. So I switched to WHM, and got tired of only ever getting to play WHM. I started playing DNC when two IRL friends started playing FFXI, after ignoring it for years, 'cause I played casters, and found I really liked it. I spent a lot of time and effort gearing it, and leveled it the old fashioned way -- partying with other people instead of just going to worms and keying, as is the way it's done on my server -- so I actually have some basic understanding of how the job works. And then I found out no one wanted a DNC. So I geared leveled and geared SAM and MNK and COR. I like COR, but I dislike getting yelled at for doing anything but being solely a buff bot. I understand why MNK and SAM are so useful on so much content, aside from both being very hard to screw up. But the most fun I have had playing this game in a long time was when a friend of a friend was putting together an Alluvion run, I got invited, and asked what to come as, and was told "whatever's fun". So we went with what we all wanted to play, instead of what is the "proper" party composition, and we both a) had fun and b) did okay.

So yes. I am angry. I am really, really angry. Now, this might all be due to the playerbase on my specific server. A lot of people I've known who I consider good players have ditched Asura for other servers. I'd be more than willing to ditch Asura, too, if it turns out Asura is actually a 'bad' server compared to some other ones, except for the fact that all my friends play on Asura.

So tell me what I'm supposed to do. Just tell me what I'm supposed to do, even if it's "quit the game". 'cause at this point I'm at my wit's end. And even if the problem is simply the server I am on having a shitty player base, tell me what I'm supposed to do when my four other friends don't want to change servers.

And I am sorry for being such an asshole in the heat of the moment, but I just don't think you understand exactly how frustrated I have become. I am embarrassed to admit it, but I'm crying right now, not because I'm sad, or injured, but just because I got so damn angry writing this post.

So tell me what I'm supposed to do.

[Byrth]

I trioed 20-25 floors regularly in NI too. There's no particular secret to it. Set up your lamp strategy before you go in, everyone bring S/I, and everyone splits up when you zone in to each floor.

As far as making gil, do Dynamis and Salvage. 120 Alexandrite average in an hour in Arrapago II is about 1mil/hr. Dynamis is maybe 400 currency in 2 hours, which is also about 1mil/hr. After that, doing Yorcia Delve runs is good gil if you have a group for it. You can low man (6 or fewer) it pretty easily and it drops about 2mil in items and 110k Plasm (500k). If you have good DDs, you can finish a run in 15 minutes, which works out to about 3mil/hr even assuming you bring a full 6 people.

The NA community is facing something of a crisis as more hardcore players that just want to put in their hours and chip away at events are forced to interact with / get frustrated by more casual players who want to log in and experience each type of content once. These two groups used to be able to avoid each other, but our community is constricting and now they interact. This is not fun for either group.


If it makes you feel any better, I play mythic DNC, RME BRD, Idris GEO, RME PLD and mythic BLM and still can't get invited to most JP events. There's approximately one NA shout event every other night at best on Lakshmi, so this is kind of an issue. I basically have nothing to do in game (not that I have time to do it, but theoretically).

[Protey]

Set up your lamp strategy before you go in, everyone bring S/I, and everyone splits up when you zone in to each floor..

The bolded is a BIG time waster if you go in the same direction. My group has the 2 DD head out while the BRD stays at lamp for going up quickly.

The majority of the time lamp floors will only have sneak aggro mobs. Use a sneak oil, or be adept at being able to trigger a lamp without getting "event skipped" message. One person should be in charge of telling everyone else what to do on Order lamps. Hopefully, Machini, you have someone in your group that has a logical mind. When someone gets to a lamp they type "1", then the next person types "2" when they get a lamp. and so on. If someone has more than one lamp, they need to not be retarded and remember which one is "3" and which one is "4". After a few seconds the lamps will either stay on or go off. Everyone needs to say "1 on", "2 off", "3 off", etc. I prefer if people type it out just in case someone does something stupid like not go when they are supposed to go and i have the evidence in chatlog to bitch them out. Once you tell them the new revised order (shift everything over by one, but making sure that if any were on they stay in that position) each person will type "/" to let people know they have gone. For Same Time lamps hit it as soon as you find one and keep going, but remember where it was. If others don't get theirs as fast you might have to backtrack once they do get theirs. If yours goes off, make sure you tell them so you guys aren't playing the "out of synch" game.

Everyone in your group should have movement speed + gear.

When going through the floors that are overly large you will go from room to room that is in a Z shape on one side (longer path) and the other path of the room just goes around the outside wall (faster path). Adjacent rooms alternate which side the Z shape is on. 99/100 the "impossible to gauge" mobs you are looking to kill are not going to be in the inner part of the Z shape room and so you can go on the outside of that Z shape room and onto a side room.


Any other questions about mythic making, just ask.

[Protey]

All it takes is coordination, communication, and no psycho's to frazzle everyone's nerves.

them psychos! i wonder whom you might be referring to =P

[Malthar]

Machini,

From your posts, I'm gathering that if you were a little nicer and less insulting that people would be more open to help you. Protey just gave you same fantastically valuable strategies. Will you accept them or just call him selfish and accuse him of not sharing again?

[machini]

Machini,

From your posts, I'm gathering that if you were a little nicer and less insulting that people would be more open to help you. Protey just gave you same fantastically valuable strategies. Will you accept them or just call him selfish and accuse him of not sharing again?

This might be nigh unto necrobumping, since it's two months later, but it's taken me this long to work up the ability to even return to this thread.

Malthar, it might be hard to believe, but I am a very nice person most of the time. I try to help other people with content when I can, I try to help them with any advice I might be able to give them, and if they need an extra body for something and I'm not previously engaged, I go throw myself at whatever task it is. I first started playing this game shortly after NA release, and have played on and off over the years, and one of my favorite things about this game was how polite and helpful everyone seemed to be, because there was so little that could be done by yourself. Or at least that's how I remember it.

However, I do have my limit, like pretty much any other human being, and I got pushed to that limit. People talking about being able to make 900 currency a day solo in Dynamis and refusing to say why? Oh, turns out he was using cheats to warp around the zone. Dude who mocked me for being unable to solo 25/+ floors of Nzyul for tokens starting at 96? Running through walls. A bunch of people who kept telling me how easy mythics were and how they could do them so fast? Seem to have been exploiting something in salvage and in getting assault tags.

My server recently lost a lot of players it seems. Something about using SE recently banning a bunch of botters.

I really don't want to know any more about such things than I already do.

It is extremely frustrating when I read people say one thing on this forum, and then I go to certain other forums and find out those people are just exploiting bastards and that THAT is why they don't want to share information. It's also extremely frustrating finding yourself locked out of a lot of content because you won't literally cheat to get ahead.

As to Protey and Bryth above, I do thank you. I am sorry I exploded in such a fashion, and I am very ashamed of it, but I had reached a limit. I'm currently working on Ichor and doing Assaults, having to duo the assaults since three of my four friends quit the game. Myself and the friend I am currently playing with both actually took roughly two months of break ourselves. Depending on our luck in Nyzul, I should have Terpsichore and my friend could have Burtgang done in about 60 days.

Again, I do want to apologize, but I just really, really was at my wit's end.

[dasva]

I now make 900 coins on a bad day and 1500+ on a good day just because I refined my methodology..
How in the world do you do 900-1500 coins a day? Is this multiple runs?

[Protey]

This might be nigh unto necrobumping, since it's two months later, but it's taken me this long to work up the ability to even return to this thread.

Malthar, it might be hard to believe, but I am a very nice person most of the time. I try to help other people with content when I can, I try to help them with any advice I might be able to give them, and if they need an extra body for something and I'm not previously engaged, I go throw myself at whatever task it is. I first started playing this game shortly after NA release, and have played on and off over the years, and one of my favorite things about this game was how polite and helpful everyone seemed to be, because there was so little that could be done by yourself. Or at least that's how I remember it.

However, I do have my limit, like pretty much any other human being, and I got pushed to that limit. People talking about being able to make 900 currency a day solo in Dynamis and refusing to say why? Oh, turns out he was using cheats to warp around the zone. Dude who mocked me for being unable to solo 25/+ floors of Nzyul for tokens starting at 96? Running through walls. A bunch of people who kept telling me how easy mythics were and how they could do them so fast? Seem to have been exploiting something in salvage and in getting assault tags.

My server recently lost a lot of players it seems. Something about using SE recently banning a bunch of botters.

I really don't want to know any more about such things than I already do.

It is extremely frustrating when I read people say one thing on this forum, and then I go to certain other forums and find out those people are just exploiting bastards and that THAT is why they don't want to share information. It's also extremely frustrating finding yourself locked out of a lot of content because you won't literally cheat to get ahead.

As to Protey and Bryth above, I do thank you. I am sorry I exploded in such a fashion, and I am very ashamed of it, but I had reached a limit. I'm currently working on Ichor and doing Assaults, having to duo the assaults since three of my four friends quit the game. Myself and the friend I am currently playing with both actually took roughly two months of break ourselves. Depending on our luck in Nyzul, I should have Terpsichore and my friend could have Burtgang done in about 60 days.

Again, I do want to apologize, but I just really, really was at my wit's end.


It's all good. I understand your frustrations with cheaters as just running around I see them every day. I made four mythics last year without cheating. How? I have more than one character so I did salvage twice a day. Meticulously. I also would either craft or spam events like delve to get gil and buy as much alex as I could. The vast majority of the assaults I could do by myself but would ask my LS for like 1 or 2 people to help out with the couple I couldn't do myself. einherjar is shouted for by multiple people every day on my server. So really, except for a couple assaults that one would need to ask for help, all a mythic requires is dedication to the grind.

[Malthar]

How in the world do you do 900-1500 coins a day? Is this multiple runs?

I three box. It's madness, I know, and you have to have the dexterity of six hands instead of two, but with all this activity going on I have no time to think that I hate dynamis and before I know it, two hours is up.

The setup I take is dancer X2, and a thief. The dancers have no sub and do all the procing. The thief wears full TH8 and is the killer. Fight all nm's you find. They have a chance of dropping 100's. My record is 6 100's in one run from white procs and NM's. Some nights I don't get a single 100, though. Have lots of inventory free and keep your camps close together. Do not turn while procing. If a mob refuses to proc, fight it till it's dead or proc'ed. Just make sure you have th on it. And finally, become a robot. Don't get upset that a mob didn't proc or that someone stole one of your proc'ed mobs. Just adjust and continue.

[Malthar]

It's all good. I understand your frustrations with cheaters as just running around I see them every day. I made four mythics last year without cheating. How? I have more than one character so I did salvage twice a day. Meticulously. I also would either craft or spam events like delve to get gil and buy as much alex as I could. The vast majority of the assaults I could do by myself but would ask my LS for like 1 or 2 people to help out with the couple I couldn't do myself. einherjar is shouted for by multiple people every day on my server. So really, except for a couple assaults that one would need to ask for help, all a mythic requires is dedication to the grind.

Dedication to the grind. I couldn't have said it better.

[Kylos]

I was going to make a thread but I found this one. Is the plan to upgrade RME to 120+ still in the works? I would like to know if the game will end updates with R/M/E weapons at the top?

I ask this for economy reasons, after Rhapsodies of Vana'Diel finishes. Content like Dynamis/Salvage/Voidwatch gets done less (and makes less gil for farmers) if RME are not the most sought after trophies.

Please let us know SE. Thanks if you can provide any information.

[detlef]

They probably should end up on top but it would be kinda funny and sad if some Skirmish weapon ends up being the best.

[bazookatooth]

They probably should end up on top but it would be kinda funny and sad if some Skirmish weapon ends up being the best.

Right? How sad would it be if after 13 years of questing weapons, the pinnacle was reached in 30 minutes?

I mean I'm all for making mythics and empyrian weapons slightly more accessible, but I cringe a little every time I look at an alluvian skirmish weapon that is better. Especially when the guy rocking it is in 109 reforged af, unaugmented wkr and delve gear and stuff like that. You know he just got that weapon on accident and it's better than a mythic....