How much I hate Job points and the weekend event. [Archive]

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Kylos

08-05-2014, 12:36 AM

With the amount of experience points/merits required to cap out jobs/merits, don't we already have enough to grind? I mean .. come on, seriously.

I was willing to give Job Points a chance, I wanted to see if they would become much more available, but they have not. I have got roughly halfway through one job point category on my main job, but the steep climb has severely put me off.

Not just that, but if we want to farm job points, we have to either A) Fight solo and get minimal amounts of job points or B) Fight in a group of 6 in Woh Gates, and they are hard to get together, especially when there is no event, or you play during EU time.

The adjustments are already minimal, you barely notice any difference, and with more job categories on the way, it's just a daunting task I simply can't be bothered to work through. I have found myself playing other games a lot more lately because the amount of grind has become too much over a short period of time.

I made a post last year sometime, saying how badly the game needed new content, we needed more things to do, and you began to release new content, and rehashed old content as well. In fact, you released so many old battlefields in such a short time, along with more merits, that I ain't had the chance to do most of them. The amount of pure (repetitive) grind is getting to me, especially as far as Job Points is concerned.

You got sparks absolutely right, you got merits absolutely right, but Job points are ridiculous.

What's even worse? When you release weekend events for Double Job Points, and it just so happens to land on a weekend I have my daughter over, so I can't participate in the event. I also misread the information you gave for last weekends event, assuming it ended late on Monday night GMT time, so I logged in to try and get a party started, (only had one guy respond who knows me) and he told me that it had ended.

I was so disappointed, I mean, I know I need Job Points, but I'm not about to go out and grind for hours and hours and hours at the current rate. I would be happy if the amount of Job points we got was TRIPLED permanently. At least then the grind wouldn't feel as daunting, as we could see that JP animation a bit more often, and be pleased to see progress.

I wanted to completely cap my job points out so I could forget about it for a while, but with the new categories on the way, I will never cap a job out, it will just build and build to the point I forget about the system.

I don't know anybody who actually enjoys the Job Point system, and looking at the feedback given (in a recent questionnaire) I laughed quite hard at it. Job Points should not take up all of our time, it should be something extra to think about, but not something which is going to grind us down to the point of disappointment and boredom.

Please fix job points, and please .. stop putting double points campaigns on weekends, it's not fair on those of us who are busy on weekends and play through the week. Thanks.

Afania

08-05-2014, 02:23 AM

With the amount of experience points/merits required to cap out jobs/merits, don't we already have enough to grind? I mean .. come on, seriously.

I was willing to give Job Points a chance, I wanted to see if they would become much more available, but they have not. I have got roughly halfway through one job point category on my main job, but the steep climb has severely put me off.

Not just that, but if we want to farm job points, we have to either A) Fight solo and get minimal amounts of job points or B) Fight in a group of 6 in Woh Gates, and they are hard to get together, especially when there is no event, or you play during EU time.

The adjustments are already minimal, you barely notice any difference, and with more job categories on the way, it's just a daunting task I simply can't be bothered to work through. I have found myself playing other games a lot more lately because the amount of grind has become too much over a short period of time.

I made a post last year sometime, saying how badly the game needed new content, we needed more things to do, and you began to release new content, and rehashed old content as well. In fact, you released so many old battlefields in such a short time, along with more merits, that I ain't had the chance to do most of them. The amount of pure (repetitive) grind is getting to me, especially as far as Job Points is concerned.

You got sparks absolutely right, you got merits absolutely right, but Job points are ridiculous.

I stopped reading when I see the above, spark is barely something that can hold a MMORPG long enough, it's not "absolutely right"...thank god that isn't endgame content.

You're not the only player playing this game. There are ppl like you who can't catch up, and there are ppl who can cap every gear 2 weeks after update and sit in town having nothing to do. Job point is just something to keep them busy. It's designed not for you, it's designed for them.

If you think job point is too much grind and you don't even have time to do all the BC, do BC first and ignore the job point. Job point isn't required to play the job, it's designed for ppl that already finished all the BC and legendary and capped on all the gears. A lot of ppl already capped gears after every update, 1~2 BC every month can't hold them long enough, job point is what's needed to keep them stay subbed.

I do agree that giving out double amount of CP over certain period of time is silly though, it's like punishing ppl who can't play during that time. But you can't really bash the game having "too much grind" over something that's not required to have.

Balloon

08-05-2014, 02:27 AM

I don't think Sparks were supposed to be this big long term thing, but they're a nice little bonus when you can spend them on chapters and skillup papers. I dunno, I just think they should get credit where it's due. I liked sparks a lot.

Mitruya

08-05-2014, 02:27 AM

Agreed. I also don't typically play on weekends and usually miss these short campaigns.
Glad I'm not the only one feeling burned out by grind (even sparks farming has me burned out, frankly).
Sure yeah, there's new content, but who's doing it? Everything is so lowman now that shouts are practically non-existent.
So I have to question why I pay money to solo in an MMO on jobs that get trolled update after update.

Afania

08-05-2014, 02:42 AM

Afania

08-05-2014, 02:55 AM

About solo grind being "too slow". I think having every job shares the job point can solve this issue. Personally I grind can grind 2 points in a little bit over 1hr with CP rings and trusts solo, some say BLM can grind double amount of CP solo. However, I can kinda see jobs without high DD power gonna take a while longer. If you're a BRD RDM WHM etc your best bet is probably joining pt.

If every job shares job point ppl can just hop on BLM and grind them faster, that'd make this job a bit more useful than it is as well.

Mitruya

08-05-2014, 03:22 AM

Just curious, exactly what you guys do in this game if you aren't grinding.....for past 3 months whenever I log on I either grind delve for lolplasm(which I already got pretty much everything I need/want months ago) or job point. I did new BC whenever it's out if I see a gear I want, but I usually get them in less than 3 D/VD runs which is 2 days of work(I guess I'm lucky). I'm 1/2 for DW belt, 1/3 for DM earring and 1/2 for gesshio drop. If I'm not grinding then I'm either playing another MMO and waste my $$ on sub, or afk in town and waste more $$ on sub. I spend around 45hr a week on my full time job so it's not like I play 12hr a day, more like playing 10hr a week. My timezone is worse than EU and NA, and I don't dual box, so it's not like I do things faster than avg player, more like slower.

So I really don't understand why everyone and their mother are complaining about having too much grind. If they make job point grind 3x faster than it is now, I'd be sitting in town doing absolutely nothing with capped job point except complaining about wasting sub $$.

Technically yeah, I can cancel sub and come back after every 3 months to save money, but that's not an legit argument on a MMO forum.

I can't speak for others, but just to clarify for myself, I don't consider Delve and BCs to be grinding. (or anything done with other people for that matter) I would not mind parties for JP and sparks. It's just that everyone I know solos/lowmans these things, and I've been missing events in my social linkshell due to stormy weather, illness, etc. On a good day I am typically logged in for ~7 hours but I am no where near capping out on gear due to lack of shouts and not having desirable jobs. (I'm also not a leader type and I'm too shy to start parties because people take these events way too seriously.)

Afania

08-05-2014, 03:56 AM

I can't speak for others, but just to clarify for myself, I don't consider Delve and BCs to be grinding. (or anything done with other people for that matter) I would not mind parties for JP and sparks. It's just that everyone I know solos/lowmans these things, and I've been missing events in my social linkshell due to stormy weather, illness, etc. On a good day I am typically logged in for ~7 hours but I am no where near capping out on gear due to lack of shouts and not having desirable jobs. (I'm also not a leader type and I'm too shy to start parties because people take these events way too seriously.)

If you're too shy you can just spam /tell to ppl you know. Also if you're afraid of getting bashed in pt by ppl taking the events too seriously, you can just warn them before hand. Usually ppl get less serious if they don't have super high expectation from the pt.

If you're looking for an event with other player, CP farm can be done with 2~3 other ppl, it may be hard to find a full 6 man party for Woh gates, but you can easily find 1~2 and do Doh gates. It's actually an event that has a lot less requirement than delve and you can use trusts for mages. If you're capped on plasm gears it offers more performance increase than plasm farm.

Rhonda

08-05-2014, 05:49 AM

I was willing to give Job Points a chance, I wanted to see if they would become much more available, but they have not. I have got roughly halfway through one job point category on my main job, but the steep climb has severely put me off.

...

The adjustments are already minimal, you barely notice any difference, and with more job categories on the way, it's just a daunting task I simply can't be bothered to work through.Considering all the content can be done without any job point investments, what's with the need to be capped immediately?

I have found myself playing other games a lot more lately because the amount of grind has become too much over a short period of time.Lol at the fact that you're now playing other games because the JP grind is too much for you. If they tripled Capacity gain rate, like you want, would you spend the next few weeks in Woh Gates JP farming? And what would you do after that? If you're bored, quit. You're asking them to change a perfectly viable system because you have nothing to do in the short term.

Not just that, but if we want to farm job points, we have to either A) Fight solo and get minimal amounts of job points or B) Fight in a group of 6 in Woh Gates, and they are hard to get together, especially when there is no event, or you play during EU time.You want capped job points now but can't even bother to make a group? Sounds legit.

I wanted to completely cap my job points out so I could forget about it for a while, but with the new categories on the way, I will never cap a job out, it will just build and build to the point I forget about the system.

...

I don't know anybody who actually enjoys the Job Point system, and looking at the feedback given (in a recent questionnaire) I laughed quite hard at it. Job Points should not take up all of our time, it should be something extra to think about, but not something which is going to grind us down to the point of disappointment and boredom.I've gotten the ~6/10 upgrades on MNK and WHM and have variety of jobs with 1~3 points spent, just from doing Delve and Skirmish. It's not a system designed to be like merits, where you cap it in a matter of hours.

Xsilver

08-05-2014, 05:54 AM

The Double Capacity Point campaign should have been extended to the 11th like the Double Simulcra Drop Campaign. 72 hours is not nearly enough time for most to benefit from the campaign. Other campaigns like the Double Salvage Plans Drop Campaign and the Double Skirmish Drop Campaign lasted for 1-2 weeks at least, why not the Double Capacity Point campaign?

They come around so infrequently(last one was back in like March or April I think?)

Kylos

08-05-2014, 04:25 PM

All the job points you need to cap out one category, for minimal stat increases, does not make sense to me. More people would be willing to farm in Woh/Doh Gates if the job points were more available. I don't see how the system is designed for the players who are on 24/7 (not literally, I tend to overexaggerate for dramatic effect) and have nothing better to do, those kinds of players probably capped their job points ages ago, because they have OCD.

My main beef was with the capacity points campaign being so short and they always land on a weekend where I can't take advantage of it. I got a party together on the first ever campaign for a couple of hours and got some nice job points until I said I needed to refresh Ionis and people left ...

Players are not (usually) willing to spend 4-6 hours at a time bashing worms and rabbits for job points, unless there is a campaign, so why not just make job points more available to encourage this play? The grind isn't as bad if players can see they are progressing at a decent pace and want to continue doing it after a break in play.

The other stuff about mission battlefields was nothing more then a rant, I do that sometimes, I ain't perfect. It was meant to be a compliment to SE for providing so many new (old) things to do, but I am always looking forward to the new (new) things to do more. I would like to know I have something else to aim for inbetween the high tier mission battlefields.

I don't really need delve anymore, or skirmish, running out of things to do, and job points are just sat there ... waiting to be maxed, but the task is daunting. It's not impossible by any means, but SE hasn't given me enough reason to go out and form these parties because the job point/enhancement ratio is not right to me. It could be easier, not stupidly easier, I don't want it handed to me on a plate, but it could be easier nonetheless.

They got sparks absolutely right, you get these high end 119 reforged equipment, and if they were any easier to get solo, people wouldn't bother to do high tier battlefields for chapters. Merits are right also, they are incredibly easy to get, you can leech those away in abyssea or just fight in general.

Maybe asking for job points to be tripled was a bit of a stretch, but having them doubled permanently would be a very welcome addition as far as I'm concerned. If you wish to be the super elite guy who got all their job points to cap under the current rate, go ahead, it won't matter that much because they don't increase your jobs effectiveness that much anyway, which is a shame.

I was talking to my dad about this today (yes, he is 50 years old and he has played since 2005), and I told him that the only people who would have all their job points capped are those players who have major OCD, and he totally agreed. He also wanted to cap his job points for his main job, but the steep climb for little reward is quite harsh.

The only campaigns I have been interested in was the double points and campaign (WOTG) events. You already know my problem with the double points event, the problem I had with the WOTG Campaign event was that I had never done Fiat Lux before, had no idea they would drop Umbral Marrow, and I had to fight everyday to get my Medal Of Altana back. I got the Medal back on the 28th, did as many Fiat Lux as I could before I fell asleep, then it ended the next day.

Skirmish events, Salvage events, Double EXP events, none of these effect me. I would love a double sparks campaign though! Or a double plasm campaign! Or what about .. a triple job points campaign for a whole week! :eek: Ok I was joking about the last one, seen as people would absolutely hate that idea ... :p

Malithar

08-05-2014, 07:43 PM

I don't really need delve anymore, or skirmish, running out of things to do, and job points are just sat there ... waiting to be maxed, but the task is daunting. It's not impossible by any means, but SE hasn't given me enough reason to go out and form these parties because the job point/enhancement ratio is not right to me. It could be easier, not stupidly easier, I don't want it handed to me on a plate, but it could be easier nonetheless.

[...]

Maybe asking for job points to be tripled was a bit of a stretch, but having them doubled permanently would be a very welcome addition as far as I'm concerned. If you wish to be the super elite guy who got all their job points to cap under the current rate, go ahead, it won't matter that much because they don't increase your jobs effectiveness that much anyway, which is a shame.

I was talking to my dad about this today (yes, he is 50 years old and he has played since 2005), and I told him that the only people who would have all their job points capped are those players who have major OCD, and he totally agreed. He also wanted to cap his job points for his main job, but the steep climb for little reward is quite harsh.

I don't really understand this outlook. You say the boosts are minimal and change very little, yet you're complaining about the rate that you can get them. If you don't like something, don't participate. I know/knew many who did the same thing with HNMs back in the day, Sea/Limbus, Salvage/Nyzul, Legion, even more recent stuff like Skirmish Yorcia. If you feel the content is worthy enough to complain about, then why not buck up and just do it?

Complaining about the events not effecting you due to your own real life situation isn't exactly a valid argument ya know? I agree (mostly because I want to earn even more JPs at double the rate, tbh) that the campaign should be extended out to cover a week. But really, no matter what they do, someone, somewhere, will not be able to attend.

My grandma was in town for a week and I couldn't play and missed the entire week of the campaign!

I went on vacation for a month and missed out on the entire month of the campaign!

My computer/gaming system blew up and it took me 3 months to replace it, and the campaign ended the day I returned!

These instances, as well as your's, can't really be faulted to anyone other than yourself. It sucks, but thems the breaks, ya know? Best advice I can give, be more proactive. You've mentioned starting shout groups, do it more often, find other's that are interested in JPs as well (as you obviously are), and set aside specific times to get together. I've done this myself within my LS and a few outside members that were interested. We usually do a group like Geo, Cor, Mnk, Rng, Smn, (or Whm), and Blu (or Pup). Not an optimal group by far, but it works plenty well for Dho Gates. Managed to get up to I think 114 CP chain the other day, was pretty stoked about that, til a long pull wiped it out. :(

Afania

08-05-2014, 10:58 PM

Players are not (usually) willing to spend 4-6 hours at a time bashing worms and rabbits for job points, unless there is a campaign, so why not just make job points more available to encourage this play? The grind isn't as bad if players can see they are progressing at a decent pace and want to continue doing it after a break in play.

Half of what you said here doesn't make sense though. Most job point pt last 1~2hr at best, and plenty of ppl spend 4~6hr farming salvage/dyna for REM, or afk in town, and they have no OCD. While ppl spending 1~2hr killing worms and rabbits with friends and LS have OCD.

I'd rather spend 100hr killing rabbits and worms with friends and LS, instead of 100hr afk in town staring at the chat log or solo salvage/dyna. I can say whoever solo dyna/salvage or afk in town 24/7 have major OCD as well.

The other stuff about mission battlefields was nothing more then a rant, I do that sometimes, I ain't perfect. It was meant to be a compliment to SE for providing so many new (old) things to do, but I am always looking forward to the new (new) things to do more. I would like to know I have something else to aim for inbetween the high tier mission battlefields.

So you complained about not having anything to do between higher tier BC, and you think you have too much to do because of JP grind?

I don't really need delve anymore, or skirmish, running out of things to do, and job points are just sat there ... waiting to be maxed, but the task is daunting. It's not impossible by any means, but SE hasn't given me enough reason to go out and form these parties because the job point/enhancement ratio is not right to me. It could be easier, not stupidly easier, I don't want it handed to me on a plate, but it could be easier nonetheless.

Ok, now I get it. You're running out of things to do in this game, but you don't like farming JP. So it's not that you don't have enough time to play, but the only thing left for you to do is boring to you.

They got sparks absolutely right, you get these high end 119 reforged equipment, and if they were any easier to get solo, people wouldn't bother to do high tier battlefields for chapters. Merits are right also, they are incredibly easy to get, you can leech those away in abyssea or just fight in general.

Lol, you listed a tons of things that you think SE "done it right", then proceed to explained why: Because it's "incredibly easy to get and you can leech those in abyssea"

Basically, a content/design is only done right if it's "incredibly easy to get" or if you can leech it. I get it, Kylos said so. Why'd you want to pay $12 a month to afk leech in abyssea is something I don't understand though.

I was talking to my dad about this today (yes, he is 50 years old and he has played since 2005), and I told him that the only people who would have all their job points capped are those players who have major OCD, and he totally agreed. He also wanted to cap his job points for his main job, but the steep climb for little reward is quite harsh.

Still not sure why spending 100hr to cap all 4 category in FFXI= having major OCD. Ppl spend 100hr in Skyrim, Guild wars 2, WoW, GTA5, JRPG with new game+. I guess every video gamer(that doesn't play facebook/mobile game)has OCD then!

Afania

08-05-2014, 11:03 PM

I don't really understand this outlook. You say the boosts are minimal and change very little, yet you're complaining about the rate that you can get them. If you don't like something, don't participate. I know/knew many who did the same thing with HNMs back in the day, Sea/Limbus, Salvage/Nyzul, Legion, even more recent stuff like Skirmish Yorcia. If you feel the content is worthy enough to complain about, then why not buck up and just do it?

You don't need to understand the outlook of someone complaining for the sake of wanting to complain. He isn't complaining because he doesn't have enough time, he's complaining because he run out of things to do and he finds JP grind(the only event left in this game for him) is boring. Not sure why he's in such a hurry to cap them tbh. Sounds like another player that just wanted to cap everything and if he can't/doesn't enjoy capping everything he has to vomit rant on the forum.

Ang

08-06-2014, 02:13 AM

As I see it kylos you have 3 options. First is to give up on actively obtaining job points altogether. (which is what I did because frankly I have better things to do than to grind away on capacity points, its mind-nunbingly boring and gives me headahces.) Second, suck it up SE has made it clear they're not changing it anytime soon no matter how much their player base hates it. Third, you can do what most people do and bot your job points, you dont even have to be at your PC to get them and SE apparently doesnt care that people do it. Id strongly recommend the first option its a nice weight to get off your shoulders, third option is good too, people get like 30 job points a night, but theres always a chance SE will whip out the ban stick again, however unlikely.

Rubicant82

08-06-2014, 02:17 AM

Afania

08-07-2014, 03:12 AM

I'm amused that people only shout for job point parties using certain jobs (at least on carbuncle) hahaha
I think it would be nice to have the monsters give at least 25% more Job Points if you are soloing (or in a trust only party), so people like who want to get job points on jobs that people don't want to take to a job point party (Black Mage, Blue Mage) i.e. anything that is not SAM, COR, MNK, BRD, WHM, SCH... LoL could get our job points in piece. :)

No it's exactly the opposite, a pt should farm job point faster than solo so ppl are more willing to play with other ppl.....this is MMO.

But they need to remove job restrictions to farm them. Half of the ppl complaining about job point farm being too slow probably aren't using efficient setup like DDx3 COR BRD RDM. If you want job point for none DD/support jobs, and your pt has no haste/acc/CP bonus roll, fat chances are CP/hr gonna be slow.

If the job point you obtained can be used on all jobs, then more ppl would want to play COR BRD RDM to increase CP gain efficiency, that'd benefit the other 3 player's CP gain efficiency as well.

Making CP soloable isn't the solution, it only reward ppl who plays this game like a single player RPG.

Mitruya

08-07-2014, 03:38 AM

What if you /COR and use Trusts to make up for whatever your usual sub is? Does that work when soloing?

Afania

08-07-2014, 05:14 AM

What if you /COR and use Trusts to make up for whatever your usual sub is? Does that work when soloing?

I'm not sure tbh, corsair's roll isn't very potent without snake eye+fold/phantom rolll ring and COR in pt(although you can probably use trust for job bonus).

I solo CP pretty often since I don't have time to make /shout pt on weekday, with haste and march from trusts, I usually farm 15k CP in 10~15 min with spark ring when double CP campaign not active. With double CP campaign that's 120k CP/hr solo.

Raydeus

08-07-2014, 06:20 AM

Why don't people just ignore Job points in their current implementation? There's barely any reason to waste time grinding them, and since you only get them from selected content you will never get them naturally while playing the game. So why even bother?

Like I've said before :

The only thing I can say about Job points is that while I understand why the system was implemented that way I don't see why there is a restriction on what gives Capacity points and what doesn't.

Since Capacity points are meant to be acquired over longer periods of time and not meant to become a grind you have to do before the content (the way merits are) they should be able to be acquired from any mob that gives XP regardless of level or area.

Instead what should change is the CP rate you get.

Say I kill a bunch of EP mobs and get 100xp per kill, then maybe I'll only get 1 CP per mob killed. If they are EM maybe I'll get 5 CP per kill, Etc. This will not be much by itself but will add up as I play more, while the zones that have bonuses can remain unchanged.

If I go to Abyssea and get 200000 xp to farm a ki for a fight getting 5000-10000 CP in the process would be a nice bonus, which will add up as a I play. I still wouldn't farm CP in Abyssea, but it would be nice to get a bit of CP just for playing other content.

Or something like that.

Mitruya

08-07-2014, 06:43 AM

Yeah, I was thinking today whether it would be worth farming for the new crafting torques, then I thought if it's in a non-SoA dungeon then you wont get CP ... this sort of discourages me from planning activities in areas where I don't get CP ... and then I can't decide which job to work on. ;p
It does kind of suck to not get them as you play the game, like you said. Then the grind would be absorbed in other activities.

Afania

08-07-2014, 10:01 AM

Raydeus

08-08-2014, 05:48 AM

Actually, you do get them while playing the game, just less than farming in gates. A lot of ppl shit on skirmish drop rate but I tend to do skirmish whenever I see /shout because of CP. You also get them in delve and I think dyna too.

Right now you can only get them from mobs lvl 97+ or so, unless that has been changed recently.

detlef

08-08-2014, 05:57 AM

Some but not all DC Dynamis mobs are high enough to give CP.

Demonjustin

08-08-2014, 11:44 AM

I might be mistaken but I believe they only give 75. While I won't say it's nothing, it's so little you'd need to kill 400 mobs for a single point.