[dev1227] Blu Feedback : WHAT'S THAT FREAKING NONSENSE

[Mystouille]

New JOB POINT CATEGORY


Blue Mage
Chain Affinity Effect Increases physical blue magic skillchain damage while under the effects of Chain Affinity.
Increase skillchain damage by 1 percent.

this one ok but ....



Learning Chance
Increases the likelihood of learning blue magic.
Increase likelihood of learning by 1 percent.

no , just no !

Learning blue magic spell isn't an issue and that's not worthy to spend our time on grinding job points for this bullsh*t !

Job points are designed to be the reward for our dedication and it reflects in our abilities !
once you get your freaking spell it's done and nothing else ?

you already spit on blue mage saying we can't get macc and physical accuracy because it would be too overpowered (i'd say too balanced) , you deliberately nerf our spells even before they are released , even breaking them sometimes (tourbillion anyone ?) , and now you give us such a crappy ability that's requires so much effort dedication ?

do we have to light fires and get pitchforks to make you understand that your trolling is going too far ?

"give us an alternative mr blue mage if you can"
try this dev team !

Blue Magic Mastery
Increases the likelihood of learning blue magic.
Increase likelihood of learning by 1 percent.
Adds 2 Magic accuracy per point

(oh and this took me exactly 10 sec to think about it)

[RalphTheGalka]

This new category makes no sense. Do they expect us to get to level 99, spend countless hours farming job points, and then only start collecting spells? There's almost no point for any established BLU to spend hours farming job points just to learn one or two new spells that come out. For almost every non WKR boss related spell it would be far faster to just tough it out and farm the spell.

This needs to go back to the drawing board.

[Kensagaku]

Hostility can probably be turned down a bit; I know if I were any sort of PR person I'd roll my eyes at a negative attitude like that. That being said, I fully agree.

Blue Magic Learning is an unnecessary and unhelpful category; sure, they are still adding new spells, but with few exceptions I've had little to no difficulty learning spells. As long as I've kept my Assimilator's Bazubands +1 on, my skill capped/merited, and saw the spell? I'd get it within a few runs, Droning Whirlwind aside. Droning Whirlwind hates me and is the only spell I have yet to learn. But really, in the time that it would take to improve "Blue Magic Learning" to anything remotely useful (let's just say even 5%), I could have learned all of those spells by now. I do a JP grinding party in Woh usually at least one a week and am almost always on my BLU for everything I do. I have only just gotten my fifth point in "Blue Magic Points" and am 4/6 to the next. Instead of spending hours and hours and hours on grinding up points just to improve my ability to learn spells, I could have just gone out and made a dozen attempts at learning them, and probably learned them.

So yeah, is there any chance we can see a change to this? It doesn't seem to be helpful at all.

[Balloon]

This is why we need the test server again. Or some notification of what is coming further in advance.

Oh, it's been met with universal disdain, but hey the update is in a week or two, too late to change now!

Some kind of input on this stuff is what these forums are ostensibly about, but they seem to take none.

[Tptn937]

This job point enhancement is stupid. Please reconsider.

[Sapphire]

I gotta say, I don't even play BLU (do to my issues learning Pollen at low levels, grr) and the OP's tone is... not conducive to getting proper attention, but...

Yeah, I gotta say, what is the rationale here? First you give BLU a Job Point category that is anything but optional (the additional points to set more/better spells), which seems to go against the entire spelled out philosophy of job points, and then you give them a "learning" boost - that you can only get at 99, and I'd gather that most BLUs that are going to be ready to go out and farm CP already have all the spells (perhaps excepting the WKR/Delve ones). I know there is still Blue Magic to be added but this really seems a little oddly thought out?

[Archi]

I am agree with them, first time i see this its really laughable, please to consider this job point. Maybe put something more benefit on our damage

Edit:
Later on when SE started make survey this job point will be no one to be choose :cool:

Unless the dev already planning to make new blu spell that have chance 0.000001% to learn (even with cap blue magic + gear) ;);)

[Alphadeus]

The only thing that makes sense to me, is the same thing they are doing with the category of Blue Magic Spell Points. They are releasing new spells that cost more to equip, but give job traits on their own.

If they are going to make a category for learning Blue Magic at level 99, I wouldn't be surprised if they released spells where it was absolutely required to have more points in learning Blue Magic, otherwise it would be maybe a 1-10% chance to learn, and it could be on monsters you don't get to fight often. This is speculation, but it could be that they are already planning for the future, just as they are doing with the blue magic points.

The only other thing I can say is that if you don't like it, don't put points into it. I'm sure they have plenty of things planned for job points, and I personally feel that they are doing this for a reason. Also maybe lay off the caffeine, there's no reason to get so bent out of shape over something like this, when they have been looking to improve blue mage. It's not like we are being ignored. Calm down.

[Balloon]

If they did that it'd be even more dumb than having the category.

There's nothing wrong with saying "Oh, we don't like this, can you remove it / change it."

Even if it was a low chance of learning, by the time you cap those points you could have probably learned it thirty times over.

[Rwolf]

I agree that the OP went about it the wrong way but the message is still valid. This is horrible game design elements. It's not a matter of don't merit it if you don't like it, it shouldn't exist in the first place.

If the development team wants to boost blue magic learning then they should add more gear that does so. Even better, they should just add Blue Magic Skill to equipment, which right now is very seldom found unlike a lot of other magical skills.

The way they are going about adding certain Job Point categories to Blue Mage isn't enhancements, but fixes and quality of life upgrades. That's really crappy...

They honestly just need to remove Blue Magic Job Points and this Learning one. There are a ton of other things they can add in its place. Burst Affinity Effect, Monster Correlation Effect, Additional Effect Duration, Buff Duration, Convergence Effect, Diffusion Recast, Enchainment Bonus, Efflux Effect, Base Damage to Physical Blue Magic, Magic Accuracy, Magic Attack Bonus. List goes on.

Saying that they can't add any more spell slots is not a valid answer. There are ways to get around any system limitations. Separating menus for setting Blue Magic to use and another for equipping spells and traits. Adding a JA like Scholar's Enlightment that unlocks all spells for 1 cast. Adding new spells and trying to fix/add quality of life changes through Job Points is not the answer and goes against the whole philosophy behind the purpose of Job Points.

[Kavik]

As a 'returning to blu' kind of blu, with most of the my spells already learned. It took me 1 day, without even using my af gloves (i left them in MH and was too lazy to go get them) with capped blu skill to get all but the WKR and the meeble spells. 1 day, all the spells. This is a pointless job category.

[Alphadeus]

Suddenly everyone is a game design expert. Well, the squeaky wheel gets the oil ^^ so if it's really a big problem, then either they'll fix it, or you'll continue to squeak. Either is fine with me.

They probably have a lot planned for Job Points, and maybe it's possible these were the only ones "ready" to be released. I don't know their development cycle, and I doubt you do either. When they first released the system, people were freaking out. First, because most of the categories were for level 1 SP and one of the first abilities learned for that job, and last, because it was so hard to get points, and each increase meant an equal amount of points for the next level (1 for 1, 2 for 2, 3 for 3 ... 10 for 10 I imagine). It's extremely time-consuming, but I guess that's what they want for now. They later introduced chains, but they don't seem to make much of a difference, either. For the most part, they seem to be "working their way up" the job in regards to the categories being released, and I guess either they have a purpose for making a "learning blue magic" category, or they're just looking at what the job does, and using that instead. I don't know.

But it is what it is. Complain all you want, but I prefer to focus on all the good they've been doing for the job. With the release of Haste II and Subduction, I've been having more fun with my Blue Mage than ever before. And with the increase of physical spell power, things can only go up (assuming spaghetti code doesn't kick in and does something bad >.>). It does seem odd to have a category for learning blue magic, when that really isn't an issue. I went 1/1 on Erratic Flutter and Subduction, and 1/2 on Thrashing Assault. Most of my 90+ spells were learned very quick, except for Thunder Breath for some reason, which gave me issues even after capping blue magic/merits/sword, wearing gloves, and fighting the Wyvern NM in Abyssea to learn. I will most likely ignore the category, and wait for the better ones down the line, instead of throwing hostility at the wind.

[Rwolf]

You don't have to be a game design expert to see bad game design. If you're creating content that has no logical use so you have to add content to justify it, it is bad. It also goes against the philosophy they explained job points to be. Being sarcastic about saying suddenly everyone is an expert is throwing hostility around.

I'm not here to convince you or anyone, only to provide unbiased feedback. Some would prefer to keep on rose-colored glasses and emotionally view constructive criticism toward Square-Enix as attacking a person. Bad game design doesn't mean bad people or incompetent designers. Errors are made and the whole point of this forum is to gain perspective. You don't creative an avenue for such and say "all good stuff please", there is nothing to learn from that. But... to each his own.

However, if you're going to defend something, at least defend it on the merit of the ability itself versus saying what the development team has done that is good or making it about any person. As if it has anything to do with the nature of the usefulness of this ability. To me, adding that just sounds like you're just as emotionally charged as the OP, but on the opposite side and more subtle in your wording.

[Balloon]

To add to the very rational comment that Rwolf made, I'll just say that it's become evident over the years that if you don't complain, and loudly, square never know that they're doing wrong. I am going to assume that they've haven't put this job point in knowing that it's useless. Complaining makes it so they're less likely to do something so stupid in the future.. Theoretically.. (Stares at Stymie.)

Also, the last thing square needs is an echo chamber.

[Alphadeus]

I'm not particularly emotionally charged, however I can be a bit blunt, and I apologize if my wording sounds worse than it is. All I'm saying is that it's fine if people don't like something, to open their mouths and say something. It's obvious people are making a difference. I'm generally more passive, and I'll take what I can get when it comes to updates to the game. I agree that the job point category for learning Blue Magic is pointless, but I am also open to the possibility that it might serve a purpose down the line. I do not know what their philosophy is (or what they said it was) in regards to job points.

If for some reason they cannot increase how many spells we can equip, they have to find a way around it. I think it might have something to do with level caps (seeing as how we have been stuck with 20 spells since Level 71), and that the spell limit system was never designed to go past a certain point, while at the same time, they could add more blue magic points, and they're trying to work with that freedom by making single-spell job traits that unfortunately require us to get more Blue Magic points. I feel like the game was never meant to break level 75, but they decided to, and if it were possible to add more spell slots, it would probably take a lot of recoding, testing, etc. I don't know.

The original post had way too much vitriol, in my opinion. If you want change, you don't get it by swearing at the people trying to make the game better. Express yourself, but I believe a more civil approach is recommended (directed at OP, no one has given me any sort of the same hostile vibe). I'm happy to see the game get monthly updates, and while some of the content is questionable, and we are free to voice our concern, but NONE of us have the power to tell them what to do, or what they should've did instead. I don't see a point to the spell-learning category, so I'm just going to keep working on my blue magic points during the double capacity campaign. And if there's time, I'll try to get even more points.

[Kaeviathan]

Hahaha! I imagine a situation where new blue magic would be introduce with a 0.01% chance to be learned. Thus investing time on this Job point would be recommended.

[Balloon]

Disagree'd, the devs very likely do not play the game, we do, and while some of the ideas fronted on here are impractical and costly resource wise, a lot of them are much more rational and represent the meta of the game much more than what they suggest.

What's the point of player feedback, the whole point of these forums, if we can't suggest what they should do instead? This is, by far, the worst job point currently, and it perfectly highlights some of the inequities between job points across jobs. BLU actually has some good ones, but some jobs haven't gotten good ones from either updates.

I feel the job point system fails on two fundamental levels; 1) Oh god 30,000 points for one? Oh god why. 2) A fundamental lack of understanding of what jobs do and how they function. Now, if the job point system was something that accrued whilst leveling a job from 1-99, which would be kind of cool, that job point and some other might make sense.

I'd really like Square to hire some playtesters, people who play the game and inform them about the current meta-game, the current problems and player grievances. As it stands, these updates feel like they're trying to fix problems that they have no grasp on.

There's no reason we should have a representative say, on two occasions, that a job can do something when it can't (Case in point, Puppetmasters being able to cast Protect/Shell on their Automaton.)

[Afania]

I'm not particularly emotionally charged, however I can be a bit blunt, and I apologize if my wording sounds worse than it is. All I'm saying is that it's fine if people don't like something, to open their mouths and say something. It's obvious people are making a difference. I'm generally more passive, and I'll take what I can get when it comes to updates to the game. I agree that the job point category for learning Blue Magic is pointless, but I am also open to the possibility that it might serve a purpose down the line. I do not know what their philosophy is (or what they said it was) in regards to job points.

If you don't know their design philosophy for this category then you can't defend for them. How can you even defend for them if you don't know?

This category won't "serve a purpose down the line" unless they're releasing 10 new spells every month, are they going to do that?

If not then this category is nothing but a flawed design. Most BLU that care about the job probably already have all spells before the update.

[Sp1cyryan]

Learning blue magic job points.
Hands down this is the worst capacity point category they have ever made and could ever make.


I am really easy going on SE and give them a lot of slack when others complain, but in the words of the internet in the words of the great Captain Picard. "What the fuck is this shit?!"

[Damane]

while the category is meh, i look at it as an optional source. there is no need to spend job points on something you deem worthless. We have gotten allready one of the best job points categorys: Blue magic points +. No other Job point category comes even close to what Blue magic points + offers for BLU.

[RalphTheGalka]

while the category is meh, i look at it as an optional source. there is no need to spend job points on something you deem worthless. We have gotten allready one of the best job points categorys: Blue magic points +. No other Job point category comes even close to what Blue magic points + offers for BLU.

I'm going to have to disagree here, I hate that they're trying to fix the job through job point system. JP are supposed to enhance a job, not fix it. To me that's fundamentally flawed.

[Damane]

I'm going to have to disagree here, I hate that they're trying to fix the job through job point system. JP are supposed to enhance a job, not fix it. To me that's fundamentally flawed.

but its enhancing the job, not fixing it, the +10 more blue mage points arent magical makeing BLU ZOMG UBER DD BBQ-Sauce, its enhancing BLU nothing else.

[Rwolf]

I'd have to disagree on set points enhancing Blue Mage instead of fixing it. The question I ask myself when considering Assimilation and +10 Blue Magic Points (+30 eventually) is: Will Blue Mages be expected to have points in this to be competent?

The answer I came to is yes, eventually they will. It's only an awesome category because we needed the space, which will only grow exponentially as they continue to add new spells that cost 7 points and higher. The need for these points will rise higher than they are now. In the development team's own words, they are trying to fix the 20 spell limit problem by providing traits in a singular spell. But the only way eventually to use this fix will be with Job Points into Assimilation/Blue Magic Points because the spells are so much more expensive without either of them.

Given that Blue Mage is the only one so far with such a unique stipulation, I can't agree with it. It doesn't make a Blue Mage uber, but the difference between a Blue Mage with 55 set points and 90 set points will be extremely noticeable with new set costs. It doesn't fit with the philosophy they conveyed of Job Points being a casual reward upgrade over time.

If someone wants to tackle it hardcore to maximize their character, that's awesome and should be an achievement. But the difference shouldn't be so monumentally different with and without it to the point where you are expected to grind them.

[Gekuz]

The reason of this ability is pretty obvious: BLU are burned in ABY party ---> Skills are super low ---> Learning spells is difficult.

With the tons of problem regard the difficulty of this jobs (BLU is much more complicated that ANY jobs in the whole game) this job point traits is totally useless for those who are REALLY main BLU

I've got all the spells took one by one during my NORMAL level up years and years ago, it doesn't matter if the spell was useful or not, i had it. Blu is my main, i'm starting a Tizona right now... and i have to worry about a totally useless category?

As Rwolf said, the are tons of other things they could add:
Buff duration first of all.

But also Ad-Effect accuracy won't be bad, We have plenty of spells with ad-effect but on high tier mobs they aren't worth...

Please re-consider... and let BLU be a wanted DD for one time in the history of this game

[Balloon]

Eh. The amount of effort that goes in to job points far exceeds that of skilling up and getting all your spells. Others have stated, you can get all your spells in a day, you can't get that many job points in a day.

There is no reason for it, it's just terrible.

[Pug]

Agreed. Improve it, or replace it all together. Job Points are a long-haul clear indication of commitment to the job. I should have all or nearly all of my spells at this point, and the 3-4 spells that may be periodically added do not warrant the amount of potential job points spent.

If I could have had this at level 1, and in the days of Aht Urghan's release, it may have had a chance to be useful. This doesn't even hold a temptation to a brand new Blu, since you have to get the job to 99, and invest a job point that would have been better spent expanding your Blue Magic Points.

[Mystouille]

The original post had way too much vitriol, in my opinion. If you want change, you don't get it by swearing at the people trying to make the game better. Express yourself, but I believe a more civil approach is recommended (directed at OP, no one has given me any sort of the same hostile vibe). I'm happy to see the game get monthly updates, and while some of the content is questionable, and we are free to voice our concern, but NONE of us have the power to tell them what to do, or what they should've did instead. I don't see a point to the spell-learning category, so I'm just going to keep working on my blue magic points during the double capacity campaign. And if there's time, I'll try to get even more points.



Too much vitriol ... but why ? When the dev team tell us they know the multiple issues concerning the job , that they don't want to overpower us by giving what we need , that they use a grind-based system to correct their own flaws , and now that they give " useless enhancements " to reflect our dedicaction to the job ; who , who can stay calm ?
Back to older times they rarely gave us stat-boosting stuff , neither OAX (even a bard can wield a KC) judging we would be overpowered , our weapons despite being A- are weaker than B+ accessible (want a fresh example ? anahera SABER (132) vs anahera BLADE (143) ) because "we are mages" ,
We barely had MAB (god bless the hagondes stuff) because they fear our "blue magic would be overpowered (hell yeah pup had better options before ...) , our blue magic points are "maxed" since level 75 and so do our spell slots : because giving too much traits to blue mages would be too OP , (but getting with this system @max 15 job traits all tiers included versus (31 (rng) and 9 (cor -drg) with an average of (20-21)) is ok for them .
Now ok we are an hybrid class /jack of all trades with a near infinite potential but when i see how they are being sissy about the blue when they give everything they need to "chosen jobs" and almost nothing to us , it really frustrates me .

There are nice improvements since adoulin but sometimes when they goof around when being aware of the real problem i can't say "ok" and smile , or say "you made my heart cry" and being emo ,i'll say bullsh*t and say it loud because a polite "NO" will often be ignored

to close: i'm emotionally involved when years after years every commoner misjudge blu , and forced me to play boring jobs to stuff it , i'm also emotionally involved when a job which requires way much more dedication than any other one is being trolled by their conceptors, or is chosen only to do some boring-forced-tasks (VW anyone?) oh and i'm also sad when i have to swing my sword instead using my beloved spells gained because it's inefficient ...

i'll stop there before being even more "acrid"

[Balloon]

I must say, I do get quite passionate about PUP getting mage gear. It really ticks me off. Especially seeing that appears on mage gear over jobs that could actually use it.

[Alphadeus]

I do understand your frustration. Blue Mage is my only level 99 job. My next highest is 91 War, but I can't bring myself to play anything but Blue Mage. I refuse to level another job just to advance my BLU, so I've been doing solo stuff, mainly sparks farming. Some friends helped me by doing a very difficult SKNM (so I could get a Mimesis, the only i119 weapon I have access to since I haven't done delve, or anything that could get me higher than i117). My gear is a combination of i119 Artifact and Relic that I had farmed the sparks for the paper, and bought the items needed to have the NPC make them. I have all of my non-HNM spells, and maybe 4 of the HNM (just learned Bilgestorm yesterday) spells. I'm capped on Blue Magic, Sword, Evasion, Parry (merits). My non-AF/Relic gear is nothing special, but I seem to be doing okay.

The thing is, I've always loved Blue Mage. From the very beginning. It brought me back to XI when the expansion came out. I got the job on the first try with the quest NPC. It's my favorite job in the FF universe. I love the idea of using the abilities of my foes. I was happy every step of the way, and never felt weak. So when they make changes, and make me stronger, it can only make me happier.

That's why I don't mind it when they announce a category for learning blue magic. It's a little odd, but between that and what I read about in the topic about still having to equip Animating Wail for Dual Wield, I feel we have quite a few spells coming, and it's unfortunate that we could forever be stuck with 20 spell slots. But I can only look forward, because I know good things are on the horizon, just as I've enjoyed the good things on the path to i119 blue mage.

As I said, there's nothing wrong with speaking your mind, but in my opinion, If I were in charge, I wouldn't want to acknowledge the one screaming profanity and kicking sand. I'd rather listen to people who express their opinions without the need for vulgarity, and can keep their cool. It's great to see another passionate Blue Mage, but if your way succeeds, then great ^^ I just feel that we should discuss it in a civilized manner, is all.

[Rwolf]

I agree, and said in my first post that the OP was too intense. I agree that to get your point heard, it's better to bait with honey than vinegar. Matsui has stated himself that he reads but won't respond on English forums because of the tone of some messages. I think it's a mutual blame myself but I'll derail the thread getting into that.

The problem with Learning Blue Magic is it doesn't take that long to learn it. I've had horrible luck with randomness where it took me literally 40 hours to learn Cocoon when Blue Mage was first released. However, even in that random horrible bad luck instance, I'd still learn a spell before earning enough to add 2-3% chance to Learning Blue Magic.. I think the outrage stems from this ability taking a slot and having no real use. Honestly the time it takes someone to cap this category, you will learn all current Blue Magic and any new spells before it's done. And if they have to make learning new Blue Magic more difficult in the future to make this relevant, that's even worse.

Any content that has no practical use upon arrival that you have to make content (harder spell acquisition) to make what you added useful is horrible. It's not as though Blue Mage has a short of things it could have in its place. I don't have to put points into it, but I don't also want to advocate useless content being added by being silent.

This reminds me of the survey they had not too long ago where they didn't understand why job points and monstrosity was not popular. It's comments like these that people have made on the forums that should be taken more into account and it wouldn't get such an overwhelming negative response.

[Afania]

That's why I don't mind it when they announce a category for learning blue magic. It's a little odd, but between that and what I read about in the topic about still having to equip Animating Wail for Dual Wield, I feel we have quite a few spells coming, and it's unfortunate that we could forever be stuck with 20 spell slots. But I can only look forward, because I know good things are on the horizon, just as I've enjoyed the good things on the path to i119 blue mage.


The point is, blue magic spell isn't zomg super hard to learn once you have your AF hands and capped blue magic. On the other hand, job point can be very time consuming to grind. In the end, the time you spend on grinding the job point may be longer than the time it save to learn spells.

Further more, most of the BLU would probably spend their CP on a more useful category first, by the time they finally have extra CP for learning blue magic, they'd probably have all the spells unless they decided to grind CP before they learn their spells.

Even if SE release new spells in the future I doubt there gonna be enough to justify this category. Back in the past SE often release spells once a couple of months, do you think it's gonna change?

[Zarchery]

Blue Mage is one of the few jobs that got a really good thing to use job points for. Why are you so bent out of shape over this? I agree that it's an idiotic option, but that's just it... an option. Don't do it.

[Kensagaku]

You're right that we don't have to put points in it, but you have to consider the opportunity cost. What else could they have put in, rather than making us wait for another few months for another set of JP categories? Instead of "Learning Chance" they could have done something like Burst Affinity Effect (+MAB/MDmg/MB damage, as possibilities) or Diffusion Buff Duration, or Magic Accuracy like some other jobs got to make landing our additional effects easier. Instead of a mostly useless slot, it would have been better to provide one that people would actively be able to work on rather than a blank category that won't likely be touched ever?

[Zarchery]

The thing is that almost every job point category is terrible and each job gets maybe 1 that isn't. The lost opportunity cost is trivial.

[Damane]

job points is just an option, why are people so anal about those job points, if you deem them worthless dont do them. I myself only touch the ones I think give me some boost on the job.

[Alphadeus]

As mentioned in the previous posts, it really isn't a big deal. Most jobs got useless/semi-useless categories the first time around. Blue Mage was, in fact, very fortunate in getting a blue magic point category the first time around. Could spell learning have been something else? who knows? Only the developers know. I bet they have more categories planned. I imagine they have had some of this stuff in the works for a long time.

I am overlooking the spell-learning category, since it doesn't apply to me. Someone else that used Abyssea "may" find a use for it, but I have all of my spells. I'll just throw points at the categories worthwhile to me, and stockpile points until better categories come along.

Good things are coming (and have been released) for Blue Mage. They are listening, and trying to make the job better. At the same time, they probably have content they have been working on for a while, and they have to release it too. If it really upsets you that they added such a pointless category (to you, and me, but not everyone), just express your opinion (preferably in a non-volatile manner), and keep playing (or not). It's up to you.

It's a shame that all the good stuff seems to be hidden behind the petty negativity, but I suppose that's human nature. Maybe a month or two down the line, when they add more categories, you can find peace.

[Malithar]

The thing is that almost every job point category is terrible and each job gets maybe 1 that isn't. The lost opportunity cost is trivial.

That's a pretty terrible way of generalizing the system. Negative outlook ftw?

Can only speak for what I care about, but Whm has 3+, War has 4, and Geo 5. It's not far fetched at all that Blu could of gotten something much better than what they did in that slot. To expect terrible things out of the system is just being silly.

[Grekumah]

This new job point category was created with the idea that we will be adding new level 99 spells in the future, and it would serve to facilitate the learning of these spells. I have compiled your feedback and will continue to forward it along to the devs.

[Balloon]

You were a 75 Blu, Grek, and while you don't have experience with the job point system you should know how easy learning spells is. It's a terrible category :(

[Vivik]

Probably one of the most useless things ever added to this game.

[tumz]

This new job point category was created with the idea that we will be adding new level 99 spells in the future, and it would serve to facilitate the learning of these spells. I have compiled your feedback and will continue to forward it along to the devs.

Horrible... just horrible. Can we please get someone up at your office to actually play a blu or observe a 99 blu playing the game...

[Muras]

This new job point category was created with the idea that we will be adding new level 99 spells in the future, and it would serve to facilitate the learning of these spells. I have compiled your feedback and will continue to forward it along to the devs.

I see two possible things the devs are trying to say with this. One, which is what most people are thinking, is that it just simply increases the chances to learn a spell, kinda like the AF hands. The other possibility I see is that this category serves as a means to learn spells from monsters that you wouldn't normally be able to learn from, like how you can't learn spells unless you have enough magic skill compared to the mob's level.

However, both of these are terrible ideas. I haven't read the whole thread (And I don't think I need to), but if there's any input you want to return to the devs for us Grekumah, then relay this: Regardless of what purpose this category serves, and unless you plan on adding new spells every single update, it does nothing to help the Blue Mage after he/she has acquired all spells available. That increased percentage just sits there doing nothing.

Now, what you CAN do is have this category do a couple things... Keep the learning boost but add something else to it like Potency, or accuracy or... Whatever. Something that stays constant so that the effort put into increasing the category can be felt at all times.

[Selindrile]

Nobody wants to grind out ages and ages worth of MP for a category of JP that will help us less than 1% of the time we play Blu, a very small portion of our Blu career is spent learning spells, for most people the majority is over and done with before we ever reach 99, and even once we have, who can justify putting points in it when they haven't capped "Blue Magic Point Bonus" yet, (and guess what, nobody has, cuz it takes an eternity).

But even if I had, Burst affinity, Azure Lore, and Unbridled Wisdom, crap that they are are STILL way more appealing than this one... it's just, offensively bad. I guess it could be worse, at least there's one good one.

I learned all 3 new spells in about an hour, last time they put out new spells, why would I grind hours and hours and hours and hours (not kidding) of JP, to make that 1 hour of learning new spells go faster? This is really basic logic for most people Grekuma, if the Devs had ever really played Blu they should know...

Remove it all together, add magic accuracy to it, make all Blu spells cost 1% less MP per merit, whatever, but as it sits, wait till next vanadiel census (when it reveals what merits and such we players picked), The only possible reason anyone could ever have to put points into that category, would be: 1.) They're capped in all the other categories. 2.) They're completionists trying to max all the categories and spending as they go, not caring about how good things are. 3.) They accidentally clicked the wrong button. I suspect the census will show that less than 1% of Blue Mages will have a single point in this category.

[Enochroot]

This is quite literally insane.

[Malithar]

even once we have, who can justify putting points in it when they haven't capped "Blue Magic Point Bonus" yet, (and guess what, nobody has, cuz it takes an eternity).

Not that I disagree with how junky this JP category is, but this is vastly incorrect. I know multiple people with a capped or near capped category, have 3 capped myself. Seen pics online of a few with all 4 capped categories on multiple jobs too.

For all the whining and complaints the JP system gets, I wonder how many people would actually have made meaningful progress in it if they just did it, rather than complained.

[Selindrile]

I'm sure if there were any census data, it would be able to tell you there's a very small percentage of the population with that kind of progress.

[Malithar]

I'm sure if there were any census data, it would be able to tell you there's a very small percentage of the population with that kind of progress.

I agree, there's no doubt in my mind. But as far as I can see, most seem content to complain about it without even trying it out. It's not hard at all. It is time consuming, but what isn't? Put in a few hours here and there and you'd be surprised what you'd get done. Capping a category is a bit daunting, no doubt, but you could get 5 upgrades into it for just 15 JPs.

[Selindrile]

I don't know anyone who hasn't tried it, and I know very few who are happy with the rates and and the system as a whole.

[dragmagi]

I think the learning chance should of been a blu job trait that we have naturally. Also I'd add % to all JP cats.

[Afania]

I'm sure if there were any census data, it would be able to tell you there's a very small percentage of the population with that kind of progress.

Census data lol. Last census data showed that 84% of player play MNK, WAR, WHM, THF, BLM and RDM.....you know, 6 starting jobs.

Of course there's a very small percentage of character with that kind of progress if you count craft mules, RMT, fishing mules, ppl who lv to 99 and quit before doing any content and so on.

What matter is avg player that spend 10hr a week playing....ppl who play the game to do the content, not a mule/rmt/come and go players.

[Sixtythree]

Not only is it a terrible category, it's 1% per upgrade...

[larrymc]

I look at this job point category differently. I may be wildly leaping to conclusions but here are my thoughts.
1) SE has stated that they want to introduce newer, stronger spells as a way to boost blue.
2) SE has stated they are planning on releasing iLevel 120+ gear in the future (hopefully near future).
3) They give us a job point category that increases chances of learning by up to 10%
4) Any blue with capped skill has *no* problem learning spells to begin with (10 tries max?) - current spells anyway.

SE must be planning the following for BLU.

A) They plan on releasing a *boatload* of new blue spells to virtually replace all of our existing spells with stronger versions - possibly doubling our spell list over time.
B) In return for spells being so much stronger, they are making them more difficult to learn - which will make the 10% learning boost very appealing.

If A & B above turn out to not be true, then this job point category is useless. Time will tell.

Oh - and the comment SE made about job points not being required to play the job - they tossed that idea right out the window when they tied expanding blue set points to job points.

I expect we will get a new job point category to increase the number of set slots we have in the near future.

[Afania]

I look at this job point category differently. I may be wildly leaping to conclusions but here are my thoughts.
1) SE has stated that they want to introduce newer, stronger spells as a way to boost blue.
2) SE has stated they are planning on releasing iLevel 120+ gear in the future (hopefully near future).
3) They give us a job point category that increases chances of learning by up to 10%
4) Any blue with capped skill has *no* problem learning spells to begin with (10 tries max?) - current spells anyway.

SE must be planning the following for BLU.

A) They plan on releasing a *boatload* of new blue spells to virtually replace all of our existing spells with stronger versions - possibly doubling our spell list over time.
B) In return for spells being so much stronger, they are making them more difficult to learn - which will make the 10% learning boost very appealing.

If A & B above turn out to not be true, then this job point category is useless. Time will tell.

Oh - and the comment SE made about job points not being required to play the job - they tossed that idea right out the window when they tied expanding blue set points to job points.

I expect we will get a new job point category to increase the number of set slots we have in the near future.


Extra Blu set point isn't required to play BLU....

[Balloon]

Because it's endemic of a bigger problem. The devs looked at that and thought "Yeah, that works for the game we've created." At least that's why I'm complaining, because I think the dev need to understand how the game is played better.

Perhaps it's petty, and yes, it is an optional choice. But you know there's no LIMIT on the amount of job points you can put into categories. You can cap them all. So having a crappy one takes up a slot where something more useful could be. So while it's optional, it is taking up space. I think that's a legit reason for BLUs to complain about it.

As I said for me it's more of a indicator of the level of understanding the devs have for the game we play. Sure this is a tiny facet of that, but what else don't they understand about how we play? Enmity? Pet Jobs? Ja Delay? Complaining about some of these things might at least make them think about taking feedback about other aspects, or actually getting someone to write up a design document about how the game is played now.

[Grekumah]

The “Learning Chance” category that will be added for Blue Mage in the August version update was designed with the idea that it would be advantageous for learning new spells that are added in the future, and specifically for spells that will be added for Unbridled Learning.

However, as we’ve been receiving a lot of feedback about this, we will be revamping this category.

In the September version update we’ll be changing this into a completely different effect. In the event that you put job points into this category during the August version update, they will all carry over into the new effect after the change in the September version update.

We’ll be announcing more details about the new effect once the plans have been finalized.

[larrymc]

specifically for spells that will be added for Unbridled Learning

I think if the dev community had communicated the intent early on there would not have been much of a response. Now I want this job point category to stay as/is ;).
If there are a ton of new NM spells that will be released soon, this category would be useful.

[Sekundes]

I think if the dev community had communicated the intent early on there would not have been much of a response. Now I want this job point category to stay as/is ;).
If there are a ton of new NM spells that will be released soon, this category would be useful.

Unlikely. If you consider the amount of time it would take to cap out this one, and then compare it to the amount of time you'd spend learning a spell, even ones from mobs in limited areas, you'll find yourself at a net loss even if you had several new spells added.

I'm quite pleased they listened quickly and will change it. While I doubt whatever they change it to will be great or anything, I hope whatever it is will have a use, even if it's small.

[larrymc]

Unlikely. If you consider the amount of time it would take to cap out this one, and then compare it to the amount of time you'd spend learning a spell, even ones from mobs in limited areas, you'll find yourself at a net loss even if you had several new spells added.

I'm quite pleased they listened quickly and will change it. While I doubt whatever they change it to will be great or anything, I hope whatever it is will have a use, even if it's small.

Just depends on how quickly you accumulate job points. On blue they accumulate like candy. If we get 10 new NM spells for example, depending on which NM, capping this could be faster that repeating the process of popping the NM or WKR or Delve with a shot to learn it once every hour.

[Rubicant82]

The chance to learn blue magic shouldn't be in need of a boost in the first place.
It should be an easy: Monster uses spell, Blue Mage survives spell and kills monster; Blue Mage learns spell.
That is it . . . with other mages being able to simply buy their spells it is a bunch of bullshit that Blue Mage has to continually suffer trying to learn a spell.

[Calatilla]

The chance to learn blue magic shouldn't be in need of a boost in the first place.
It should be an easy: Monster uses spell, Blue Mage survives spell and kills monster; Blue Mage learns spell.
That is it . . . with other mages being able to simply buy their spells it is a bunch of bullshit that Blue Mage has to continually suffer trying to learn a spell.

I totally agree, in other FF games where you could learn spells off mobs it was just a case of mob uses spell, you kill mob, player learns spell. With all the different tp moves mobs in FFXI have it's hard enough just getting them to use the one you want, and then you have to hope the games RNG lets you learn it, or else it's back to the start you go.

With that being said, I am happy to see they have changed their decision on the learning blue magic JP category since learning spells is not that difficult providing the mob actually uses it.

[Selindrile]

All hail Grekumah!

Why is everyone not praising Grekumah, loudly!?

He (and/or other Community reps) have clearly gone to bat for us with the devs, and we've made a change, this is amazing news, to find out we managed to get this ill-thought-out category revamped is no minor miracle for us, historically.

Let me be the first to thank you officially, for the news, and for bringing our concerns to the Dev team!

[Balloon]

The Japanese were complaining very loudly too, and they got told first, most of the time when we get exclusive posts it's to the effect of "We will not be changing anything at this time"

[Mystouille]

The “Learning Chance” category that will be added for Blue Mage in the August version update was designed with the idea that it would be advantageous for learning new spells that are added in the future, and specifically for spells that will be added for Unbridled Learning.

However, as we’ve been receiving a lot of feedback about this, we will be revamping this category.

In the September version update we’ll be changing this into a completely different effect. In the event that you put job points into this category during the August version update, they will all carry over into the new effect after the change in the September version update.

We’ll be announcing more details about the new effect once the plans have been finalized.

Thanks for the feedback report Grekumah (and also thanks to have the guts to come in a rageborn topic to do your job !)

[Alphadeus]

Was pretty much going to say what Balloon said. At the main forum, you can see in the upper right "Dev Tracker" under the search bar. You'll be able to see the responses from both Japanese and English forums. I don't think I've ever seen a case (other than "we have no plans...") where we received news first. I'm not trying to downplay what the community reps do. I think they do an amazing job (and put up with a lot of disrespectful people, like OP), but generally, they relay information that has already been posted on the Japanese forum.

But it doesn't mean no one is listening. This was obviously a poor decision for a job point category. They want to improve the quality of life, and also add new stuff. That is why I (even though it doesn't matter what I say) encourage people to speak their mind, because if no one says anything, then they assume nothing is wrong.

EDIT: I should point out that there wasn't much of a time difference between the Japanese response, and the English response (approximate 7 hours or so), and that they do not withhold information. They sometimes have to find the appropriate thread to post it in. Basically, we are not kept in the dark, and they do care.

[THD]

The “Learning Chance” category that will be added for Blue Mage in the August version update was designed with the idea that it would be advantageous for learning new spells that are added in the future, and specifically for spells that will be added for Unbridled Learning.

However, as we’ve been receiving a lot of feedback about this, we will be revamping this category.

In the September version update we’ll be changing this into a completely different effect. In the event that you put job points into this category during the August version update, they will all carry over into the new effect after the change in the September version update.

We’ll be announcing more details about the new effect once the plans have been finalized.

Personally, I laud the dev team for actually listening to the community. Career BLU (with Tizona 2010), I understand the frustration of not learning spells. However, we already have the BLU AF gloves to help. I do not see the point of a job point category, that can only be used at 99 (while the majority of spells are still <99) just to learn a few spells that may be released every 6 months. It's part of the challenge to learn them. If it does not appeal to you, try BLM where you can just buy them.

[Grekumah]

The development team has finalized their plans for the new effect to replace the current “Learning Chance” category for job points, and they will be switching this category to enhanced accuracy for physical blue magic spells’ additional effects. By placing points into this category, for example, it would increase the chances of an enemy becoming stunned when using Sudden Lunge. As mentioned previously, this change will take place in the September version update.

[larrymc]

Wow, this is a great category. A little disappointed that the way SE is trying to solve the issue of needing both magic accuracy and physical accuracy to enable our physical's spells added effects to land is through job points. But at least we have some type of mechanism now. I just hope that each increase is 2% and not 1%.

[Kensagaku]

Even if it's 1%, it will be potent in the long run. Remember that Job Points are eventually going to be expanded to a maximum of 30 in the future; though we are capped at 10 right now, we will see that cap increase. +30% additional effect accuracy sounds phenomenal. Even now, having the ability to enhance it even by that 10% is still an improvement from what we had. Thanks, Dev Team, for picking a new category that might really help us in the future!

[Rubicant82]

Much better!

[Selindrile]

Muuuuch better, cheers!

[Ramzi]

Hmm, so the answer to broken spells, is to force players to grind job points for hundreds of hours to make them work? Enhancing accuracy of these is good, but they should work as intended anyway without having to modify them along this path. At least fix the ones that do not add effect no matter what. I believe the spells in question have been repeated on here so many times, they are burned into the retinas of the community reps.

[Draylo]

Thanks for the change, maybe later we'll get one for magical additional effects too =p. I honestly thought they would make it "burst affinity: bonus to magic bursts" lol

[Mystouille]

Thanks for the change, maybe later we'll get one for magical additional effects too =p. I honestly thought they would make it "burst affinity: bonus to magic bursts" lol

i'd have bet on breath booster ;)

but this "optionnal" macc is way better than their original idea, time to change that post name

to prevent future similar cases, we should create a idea topic dedicated to those job points category for blue mages

[Afania]

Hmm, so the answer to broken spells, is to force players to grind job points for hundreds of hours to make them work? Enhancing accuracy of these is good, but they should work as intended anyway without having to modify them along this path. At least fix the ones that do not add effect no matter what. I believe the spells in question have been repeated on here so many times, they are burned into the retinas of the community reps.


Just my personal opinion and feel free to disagree, if you're talking about the spells that's not currently broken, I think the additional effect of spells shouldn't be VERY high regardless of NM's lv. Sudden lunge with 100% land rate is kinda OP on NMs.

The ones that won't not work no matter what would need a fix though.

[Selindrile]

I rarely agree with Afania, on anything, but yes, much as I love Blu, it would be rather overpowered on NMs if sudden lunge a high hit rate and the duration tenancies it generally has. But if they raised it's hitrate a ton, and made the stun duration tiny on NMs (ala Blm stun) Maybe Blu could be a situational stunner, that would be neat.

[Metaking]

i think you guys are blowing out of proportion what where getting here, this wont make spell that dont land atm land unless se miss worded it(aka if its a land rate boost). Realistically this job point is going to be 1 or hopefully 2 and if we have been really good 3 macc on add effect per job point, so 10 20 or 30 macc, In the case of sudden lunge you can land it on any nm that the real stun can be landed on, tho sudden lacks blm stuns massive macc boost, IF your macc is high enough, also every time you use it, a monster build additional resistance (mevasion to) the stun effect. long story short it wont make sudden 100% at best it might mean you can use it 2 maby 3 more times before its fully resisted, and spell like turbilon it wont fix.

[Selindrile]

Au contraire, I full well agree with you there Metaking, +60Macc (assuming we get a general macc category + this physical added effect ones) will not suddenly make sudden lunge work in delve like it does on salvage trash mobs, this would still be underpowered imo as things are now.

I simply meant if they were to try to fix these spells more adequately, sudden lunge could do with a huge macc boost for endgame content, but if they did something like that, they would have to make sure the stun duration wasn't overpowered, but then again, perhaps the innate resistance building of NMs would already work fine for that? I just meant, much as I love Blu, we shouldn't be able to keep delve bosses stunned for 50% of the fight like we can with trash content, fun as that might be.

But mostly I just meant I would be happy with sudden Lunge getting an Macc boost at the expense of stun duration, especially if it was for NMs only.