Changing the hq rate on the 119 jugs

[Heimdall]

To put it simple the recipes for these jugs are so high just for the NQ version that actually trying to make the HQ ones are completely unreasonable. You can end up going through a dozen stacks of ingreds just to get a few HQ jugs. This means there are almost never any of these on the AH for bst to use let alone a whole stack. This of course leaves bst hurting as they can't actually get 119 pets to use. So would like ask if there is someway to change the recipes or something else to make it a better rate of HQ jug synths for bst to be able actually have them to use?

[Olor]

The answer will be:

"We regret to inform you that BST cannot get a break ever. Please understand. We hope you will enjoy making high level cooks and synergists on your server very rich for very minor stat increases on your pets. These pets should help you solo level 75 content faster.

"Because these pet's auto-attacks are very strong, it is important that the jugs cost a great deal. With these HQ pets it is possible that a 119 BST with 30 buffs may be able to deal approximately 1/3 of the damage of an unbuffed level 117 samurai. We will be monitoring the situation to ensure balance.

"We have some good news, however, in the next version update we will be adding a new sheep pet and a frog that does nothing except auto-attack.

"We will also be adding new food that does nothing to bring your DD capabilities anywhere close to a real DD of any kind.

"Please enjoy."

[Heimdall]

I am actually a high level cook and even with skill over 110 and using rusk hq synth food the hq rate is so low that it just isn't worth even trying. Out of around 10 stacks or so of shimmering broth I only got 4 hq jugs . That is only 2 synths. This along with hours of fishing just to get the ingreds for that one recipe alone. Shimmering broth also happens to be maybe the easiest of the high level pet recipes.

[Olor]

I am actually a high level cook and even with skill over 110 and using rusk hq synth food the hq rate is so low that it just isn't worth even trying. Out of around 10 stacks or so of shimmering broth I only got 4 hq jugs . That is only 2 synths. This along with hours of fishing just to get the ingreds for that one recipe alone. Shimmering broth also happens to be maybe the easiest of the high level pet recipes.

Yeah I got that, sorry I couldn't resist being sarcastic. Feeling very let down by the failure to address problems with the BST job lately. Thanks for raising the concern on everyone's behalf.

[Selindrile]

Hilariously, depressingly, accurate.

[Heimdall]

Sad thing is some servers have never had these jugs listed at all.

[WoW]

Sad thing is some servers have never had these jugs listed at all.

You are not missing anything; trust me, lol.

I only use hq jugs for quick salvage runs, when I do not feel like unlocking hands or something.

But yea, I agree, hq rate is somewhat random. I smooth synergized 8 Peters, but did like 8 straight nqs soon after XD.

[dasva]

Yeah I don't understand why if this was the solution to not having many pets that can get to 119 without BA why in the world did they make the crafting level so high?

[Grekumah]

Currently there are no plans to reduce the required cooking skill to create these jugs, but if anything should change we’ll be sure to let you know.

[Glamdring]

unfortunately, there's a precedent. while the level cap was 75 the end-game jug of choice was Courier Carrie, an HQ jug. The difference was I think the common recipe capped at 34, meaning HQs were quite common. a jug capping at 106 with a skill cap of 110 for the craft, HQ, not so much. But even in the CC days you ended up with ALOT of trash jugs.

[Minikom]

yeah i agreee about 50 synthesis and my HQ rate is really bad, they need increase it a bit, not alot

[dasva]

They need to make it so with max amount of skill you can at least tier 2 it. Especially since HQ1 results in only 2

[WoW]

Back in the day; synergy equated to automatic hq species, but now, it appears to be numerical.

[dasva]

Or on that note could compromise and maybe idk make a recipe that uses say 2 NQ and synergizes them into an HQ!

[Balloon]

They're adding some new jug pets to vendors for cheap next (September) update. They probably won't be hq, though.

[Grekumah]

A quick follow-up on my previous post,

The development team’s basic policy is that similar to how a high synthesis skill is required to make equipment for high levels, a high level of cooking skill is required to make pet items for high levels. However, since these are consumables, the team would like to add some items that are somewhat easier to obtain.

We’ll be adding new pet items in the September version update that can be purchased from NPC shops for a comparatively cheaper price. As soon as we hear anything else on this subject we will be sure to follow up.

[Glamdring]

my issue wasn't the price-although that IS a concern since my major craft is leather-it's the trash jugs. let's put it this way; original end-game level was 75, but crafts reached 100; we know the ratio of NQ to HQ is based on the difference between your crafting level and the cap for skilling on the jug. THE end-game jug of choice was Courier Carrie, and my recollection is the recipe most used capped at 34 cooking, that meant a good supply of HQ on the market because of the 66 (69? if you geared) level gap between the jug and the cooks pounding them out, and I think the HQ rate for the top guys was about 60% since they would powercraft during the proper moon phases. But now we're dealing with jugs over level 100 for cap and cooking caps at 110-115 with GP Items. The skill gap is GREATLY reduced and the HQ rate is abysmal because of it, especially since you lose $ on every NQ synth, and those are the majority.

That means, a. a severely trunctuated supply of GOOD end-game jugs that might be enough to let a beast into a delve or AA fight (I'm not holding my breath, even the HQ jugs on a well-geared beast are sub-par compared to our level 75 performance with CC was), b. the price on the HQ that are available is FAR too high to make using the job worth the investment-especially since we can cheaply level monk and be guaranteed consideration in about 1 RL day of playtime, c. because of the scarcity of the materials few who are even capable of HQing jugs bother-especially since the cost of the NQs and losses from a break make the risk/reward ratio too low, d. beasts that have been driven from the job (see b.) are so numerous that the market for the HQs you do get is severely limited, and e. because that HQ jug that cost a fortune and was almost impossible to find in the 1st place is only good for one instanced fight the cost to play beast in that fight (with the requisite pet food, mulsums and now master/pet food to get stats that leave the performance of a top-flight beast only 30% sub-par of what they were in the past) is quite frankly prohibitive as it is so far in excess of any other job-at least a mage once they buy a scroll they are done, rng/cor/nin have recycle, we have to burn several hundred thousand every single fight-before the staple food, RR and pop that all players have to buy.

So seriously, is it too much to ask that you have the Devs reconsider this request-and then actually give a GOOD reason for the out-of-hand rejection we already know will come?

[Vinedrai]

We’ll be adding new pet items in the September version update that can be purchased from NPC shops for a comparatively cheaper price. As soon as we hear anything else on this subject we will be sure to follow up.

Hmmm... let me guess... another frog?

[WoW]

Glam hit the nail on the head. All players spend money; this is nothing new, however, the price combined with the jug's efficacy (Or lack thereof) is my main gripe.

The jugs are trash and expect the next batch to be more of the same. In another thread, SE basically shot down the notion of implementing powerful jugs; size, ferocity, strength and special attacks appeared to be the main issues SE had with certain monsters; aka take a hint.

[Glamdring]

@WoW I don't know if you misunderstood me on "trash jugs" or not. I was referring to the NQ jugs that you get and just toss/NPC due to no market when aiming for the HQ. You may not have misunderstood me since I read your post as even the HQ are still trash as they are underpowered in general and specifically when compared to the gap between Master and Pet at level 75 that I've been referring to. Because frankly, we're both right. There seems to be a concerted effort by SE to weaken Bst's niche as the strongest soloing job in the game (tbh, I think that already passed awhile ago), and specifically in all of the instanced end-game content. Honestly, my brd/dnc doing melee is about as productive as my bst in instanced content that requires jugs now. pets hit slow, don't take damage as they used to, cannot hold hate, have ready moves that aren't worth the effort, don't even have a TH1 to justify them and go down as fast as a mage to all the AoE TP moves by mobs now. and since I'm not aware of any end-game instanced content that allows charm I don't see anything where we could get an appropriately powerful pet again. This cannot be a simple error by SE, they had it right for 10 years after all, so it must be intentional. and it's really chapping my ass that my favorite job which WAS a perennial power-house is being made into a joke. I mean, "lol-pup" is back, but I never thought they would encourage "lol-bst"

[WoW]

A quick follow-up on my previous post,

The development team’s basic policy is that similar to how a high synthesis skill is required to make equipment for high levels, a high level of cooking skill is required to make pet items for high levels. However, since these are consumables, the team would like to add some items that are somewhat easier to obtain.

We’ll be adding new pet items in the September version update that can be purchased from NPC shops for a comparatively cheaper price. As soon as we hear anything else on this subject we will be sure to follow up.

Are they good? This is the main issue.

SE can release a manticore, lizard, yellow crawler, sapling, pugil, giant bat, and another leech for 1gil each, but it will change nothing. All these pets are crap as-well as the current guys. Pets are already cheap atm. HQ and NQ is a joke, I only use hq cause i make them, do not understand ppl whom buy the hq versions of the same crappy pet. There are no exclusive moves, perks, etc. The hp increase is not a matter of life and death.

Also, this will not work unless all of the pets are vendor/cheap. I am not a price conscience individual, however, if you guys release a yellow crawler that can be brought from the vendor,but a make a scorpion craft only; bst will scream foul, because they cannot use the scorp.

Bst is a flawed job whom is dragged even further down the pile with flawed concepts. I quit the job, hence it does not bother me, but I still find it quite comical.

[dasva]

Are they good? This is the main issue.

SE can release a manticore, lizard, and another leech for 1gil each, but it will change nothing. All these pets are crap as-well as the current guys.
Sorta depends on the moves on them... Manticore has potential though I doubt they'd do it. Lizards are kinda underrated. Audacious Anna's infrasonics is -25% evasion which is pretty nice and had a decent land rate until delve. Old leech had -50% att which also landed decently.

[WoW]

Manticores have extremely high delay and the only move worth using is deadly hold; which was only deadly when Kirin used it on my sky ls. This may be a common misconception with players; they may recall powerful monsters several lvls above them using these moves (Debuffs, etc), but in actuality, it is the exact opposite as it pertains to jugs. They are weaker than delve, AA, and other higher tier bosses.

It is not that lizards are underrated, but why release a lizard as opposed to a wivre, matamata, or bugard? Sure lizards can be decent, but they are not exactly powerful pets; they are worthy of their D-list status. Personally, I would not rely on monster debuffs, if (When) they miss, that was potential damage taken away from their overall dps (Should have used blockhead). As it pertains to the leech, well, not sure delve bosses care for the attack penalty, their abilities appear to be magical; and it would not land anyway (As you alluded to). Essentially, lizards and leeches are useful on dated crap which will die within seconds (Why use debuffs?).

Bst is a flawed job. The great monsters are "Not implementable." We are a one-handed dd, hence we need damaging pets. Lizards, leeches, etc will do us little justice. I mean, most bst would take the most damaging pet to a pt situation, which were falcorr, hobs, and NN (back in the day) regardless of the KI bonus. For instance, most bst would take a scorp, hippo, opo, ruszor, and a snapweed over the lizard in a dd situation.

I quit bst due to SE's constant neglect of the powerful monsters; imo the future looks dim for bst.

[dasva]

Well I meant heatbreath could be decent....

Sure I'd love some powerful ones too but I would like ones with good debuffs that land again. Also I alluded to it landing decently not it not landing. I meant they were landing fine for most the game until we had mobs that just had huge meva that we couldn't overcome... I remember back before say VW when these debuffs landed very well and could really help give the bst a niche in the group on top of it's axe throwing... I mean hp down from the slug was huge by itself.

But then they started making mobs with really high meva without really doing anything to our pets macc... and then when they finally did bump it up a tad it didn't really matter because we were fighting higher level mobs and all our good debuffs come from jugs that can only go to 114 at most. I can with a bit of work now land some of them on delve 1 stuff but I doubt could delve 2. But I feel if they actually gave us ones that went up to 119 and tweaked macc some more (jugs used to have great macc) so we can land stuff like avatars routinely do it could be insane.