Fix "Call Wyvern" > /points finger at the Dev Team <

[Riki]

This is a simple request for the call wyvern timer to be reduced. As no matter what type of drg you play i am sure you argee that the wyvern matters. I want the timer fixed to about 5min or a JA that pulls out the wyvern in a weakend state (possibly with the offset of cant use spirit link)

Now before you all get on your back in the day high horse remeber that day has past. You no longer grind to level 10 and prey that you get a dunes party... there are many examples of this that i could give but this is not the point of my post. The point is that making the wyverns def more in line with the 119 gear cap and such makes sence even if its only a passive trait that is recived at level 99 drg. I am glad to see this however it needs to go further, much further.

As the timer for call wyvern is a bit of a joke by today's gaming standard. Think about it what can a drg do even better with a lower call wyvern timer, not much to be honest. So why ask for it to be lower? Simple without the wyvern a drg just dosent work as well as a stright DD or as a /mage

All the new gear boosts jump, high jump and the EMN that the drg has gathered (or the folks behind them in Sp.Surge) but the fact is simple when have you as a drg or seen a drg use anything other than Spirit and soul jumps? you dont not really. The reason for this is TP, the wyvern gives more TP per jump, with the emp gear they get even more tp.

So simple dd maths here...

More tp = more damage = more hate = cant hit super jump fast enough = dead drg = dead wyvern

not too bad you can just recall right, sure but thats just this time. If you happen to do that more than once and it can and does happen in the newer areas hell even walk of echos is a great spot to murder my blue flying buddy. It gets old and foces me to come off of DRG and play another job that isnt playing chicken with a 20 min timer.

This might seam like an unfair way of looking at it but if a SAM had to wait 10 or 20 min for hasso the forums would crash lol, but that's just it, the wyvern is that important to playing a drg. Theres alot of drg out there that don't fully get how the pets HP and TP works and couldn't care less if there pet dies, and for them i say thats fine for them. However when your wyvern is busting out 1.3k healing breaths left right and center keeping your party alive and your putting still the damage too, 20 min wait is far too much.

heres a pet timer in all other jobs that use pets

Bst ~ 15 second to 5 min depending on charm or call beast
pup 1 min to 20 min (and the 20 min catagory can be merited down)
SMN a matter of seconds

All i am asking for is a level playing field that when i get up and get killed or charmed or whatever that i don't need to wait 20 min to play again, or be forced to swap to a different job. What i would like to see is the timer droped to 5 min as that would let DRG rock out thier job. Hell even if they give us an overload sort of new JA that would be fine to. But please SE this issue needs addressed it has went on for far too long.

If you seen a pup w/o a puppet it would make you think why? Why have they not just called the puppet in a weak state. Sure you got to cure them but you got your BLM/Tank/Whm/RNG/DD >the list goes on< back and your doing your job then they say something like nahh going to wait 20 min because its going to be weak is just stupid.

But here SE thinks thats ok for DRG, i dont think its ok for drg at all. We should have something that lets us call our pets back at a rate thats on par with other jobs on the pet classes.

Sorry for my lack of spelling and such and ty for taking the time to read my post.

Please feel free to add to this

[Ophannus]

Considering how many tools we have to keep our wyvern alive, 10-15min is more fair than 5. If they lowered to 5, they'd have to nerf some of the defensive buffs they gave Wyverns, like reduce their HP, DMG-% taken, raise spirit link recast, reduce its potency, reduce the regen effect spirit link grants, decrease parameter boost, eva, def, mdef and Steady Wing potency. All of those things were increases over the last few years with a 20min timer in mind.

[Mitruya]

Would you say that pet wyverns have the best buffs versus the other pets with shorter recasts?
There was already a post earlier this month that stated "automaton's defense is quite high" compared to other pets. A quick comparison of /checkparams showed that my wyvern had slightly higher def over Balloon's automaton, and this was before any JA buff or parameter boost. (of course there was the whole confusion about Pro/Shell, and Camate has since edited his post to strike out that whole paragraph so I don't know if that is still the devs' sentiment or not about which pet has the best defense)

Would you say that our current buffs + incoming August buff + a 10-15 minute recast would be enough for the job? Does it seem fair in comparison to the MNKs, RNGs, SAMs, whatever stomping all over content?
I know you're trying to give us a reality check so we don't get our hopes too high (and remind us to use the tools at our disposal), but you've also written some really good posts about how to update the job so it will catch up. Would a 10 minute or less recast be that game-breaking? Even you have pointed out how harshly the master is penalized for 20 minutes versus any other job in the game.

I'd be kinda curious to see a comparison chart of pet stats versus recast times and all that.

[Ophannus]

I think that either setting the recast at 15 minutes would be fair considering the pace of the game, 15minutes is still an eternity. 10 minutes is a bit too strong of a recast considering Spirit Link is a full cure for our Wyvern, powerful Regen, Steady Wing is 2-3k Stoneskin and recast is not that bad.

But I would also like for them to shoe-horn in an "extra" or "alternative" way to summon our Wyvern pet via a different job ability, for extreme emergencies. Letting Spirit Surge be used even without a Wyvern, but when doing so, a Wyvern is summoned in an enhanced state(like Rouse Wyvern SP2 ability which made Wyverns invulnerable for 60 seconds and enhanced stats/shorter recast on JA breaths). Allowing us to use Spirit Surge without a Wyvern to summon a new Wyvern makes sense for an SP ability. If our Wyvern is present, we get the regular Spirit Surge bonuses we have now. If Wyvern is not present, activating Spirit Surge calls a new Wyvern, gives it powerful bonus stats temporarily and resets the Call Wyvern timer.

This way Spirit Surge can be used depending on the situation. It kills the Wyvern so Dragoons are very limited after using Spirit Surge; no other job in the game is at a disadvantage for up to 20minutes after using Spirit Surge, and honestly the effects of Spirit Surge are not proportional to that penalty).

15 minutes recast would be optimally balanced, and buff Spirit Surge to refresh Call Wyvern normally or have a secondary effect when no Wyvern is present. Another 3rd option is introduce an ability like Deus Ex Automata, but for Wyverns. Call Wyvern with a powerful Stoneskin effect and full HP but breaths cannot be used for 2 minutes and has a Slow effect or something, i don't know.

Just, in addition to a shorten recast, DRG needs a secondary way to summon a pet because irregardless of how much Defense or Magic Defense the Wyvern has, Dragoons die in combat and lose their Wyvern. Most of the time, Dragoons die because of no fault of their own, simply slow healers or a bad pull and the party wipes. A Dragoon dying will kill the Wyvern despite any amount of defense the dev teams give it and thus are then worthless for 20minutes of the Delve or BCNM(most are 30-45 minutes, so that's about half or more than half of the fight. Wyverns are not that powerful of an asset to an alliance's firepower that justifies such a long recast. If Wyverns were contributing even 30% of the Dragoon's damage(in reality it's more like 1%) then maybe a 20minute recast would be fair, but the 20min recast is not commensurte with the Wyvern's overall importance to a group's success, overall its contribution to the alliance's damage is inconsequential and it's only purpose in reality is to be alive--by proxy--for a Dragoon to benefit for Spirit and Soul Jump.

Dragoon is a candle burned at both ends. We are weaker than Warrior, Samurai, Monk, Ranger and Dark Knight unless we have Mythic, in which case, we're still outclassed by those jobs, just to a smaller degree. That being said, if our damage is weaker than those damage dealers WITH a Wyvern, then without a Wyvern, we're just bringing the alliance's performance down a huge amount.

When any other job in the game dies, they are back to full potential after 3-5minutes of Weakness. When a Dragoon dies after summoning a Wyvern they are handicapped for up to 20minutes. Without a Wyvern, a Dragoon is just a weakened Samurai with a polearm but with fewer job abilities. We have no native stance job abilities like Berserk or Hasso to be of any use without a Wyvern. Jumps deal ~300-500 damage because they don't receive the Critical Hit or Attack Bonus that Spirit Jump and Soul Jump receive. The reduced TP granted by Jump and High Jump means that because of job ability delay and using those Jumps when we have marches and haste actually slows down our damage. No other job faces a 20 minute penalty to be back at full strength. BST's Call Beast is 5minutes, PUP has 2 ways to call their Automaton, Corsair is only disabled for 5minutes when they Bust etc.. NO OTHER JOB FACES SUCH A HARSH PENALTY!!

[Casey]

Well, this is certainly more an issue than ever. Now without the wyvern the DRG is missing a boatload of beneficial stats. Lets not forget that if you're soloing hard stuff on drg where you need to use healing breath you cannot at all engage in a fight until the wyvern is back. A 20 minute recast on an essential job function is completely ludicrous. The wyvern sure is nigh invincible, but the DRG is not.

I'd really be ok with a 2nd call wyvern timer that has a weakened wyvern with a 5min duration just like the regular weakness. It's just completely insane that I should have to wait up to 20 minutes just to fight again when solo, which also includes normal weakness timer of 5 mins. The penalty for dying multiple times shouldn't vary depending on job.

[Xsilver]

Yes but now they can argue: "We gave you benefits with your Wyvern that make you pretty strong to compensate for the fact that when you lose it, you're weakened".

In other words, risk=reward. If they made Call Wyvern a 5min recast, they'd strip our buffs or greatly reduce them.

20min is a bit on the longish side. I'm not going to say it's unfair now because now we have way more incentive to keep it alive, although sometimes the DRAGOON dies and with it the Wyvern. In other words, in many fights, the Dragoon dies before the Wyvern, but they tried to account for that by giving us a free +20% defense, giving us almost as much natural defense as a Paladin(and certainly more than any other DD)

[Bebekeke]

I'd settle for Call Wyvern wearing off when the weakened status wears off the DRG. OK, there are a couple of mobs out there that can inflict weakness which would increase availability of the wyvern, but as a general rule, the wyvern isn't dying itself. In fact, since the september update, the only time that I found my wyvern would die was in WoE flux 15 while fighting an elemental that was constantly doing AOEs that petrified me. This meant that other people could cure me, but I couldn't cure my wyvern.

But yeah apart from that it's not the wyvern that's dying... it's the DRG itself. CW being reset when weakness wears (or even just the Wyvern reappearing and not affecting the CW timer at all) seems to me the fairest option.

[Angarato]

Simple solution that makes sense. if WE die, let our wyvern come back when we get raised! only make the wyvern leave if A: it dies, B: we dismiss it, C: spirit surge is used. when we go inside a town the wyvern waits for us too. could make it so it does that when we die. problem solved.

[Mitruya]

I support that idea. If all the buffs mean we have to keep the 20 min timer for balance, at least let us get the wyvern back when we raise. We may have all kinds of ways to keep it alive but we can't necessarily do that for ourselves.
I'll echo all the other posters by again repeating that no other job is gimped like that after weakness wears off.
Why didn't DRG get HP Boost or more defense or something?

[Angarato]

also CHARM removes our wyvern! stop that shit. just make it come back after charm or w/e. when I get charmed in besieged or dynamis or w/e i'm gimped for 20 minutes. its so god damn lame

[Ophannus]

It's probably hard to code system wise to make the Wyvern vanish, then reappear.

I still say Spirit Surge should reset the Call Wyvern timer. Or, let use use Spirit Surge even without a Wyvern, but when doing so, call our Wyvern with a "Rouse Wyvern" state. Rouse Wyvern was our old SP2 which made the Wyvern unkillable for 45seconds and gave it shortened Breath JA timers and increase attack/haste/accuracy. This would allow DRG to use Spirit Surge differently depending on the situation.

[Glamdring]

I would say the pup mechanic is fair, 20 minutes for full strength or 5 minutes or less but essentially in the same weakened state as the master is after a raise. Because OP is right, a pet job derives a significant portion of its power from the pet, and without one we are just outclassed. Frankly that's why beast, dragoon, pup and summoner generally are not welcome in end-game events, with all the AoE TP and the like the pets die too fast and then the party is stuck trying to carry a now underperforming DD source. Now, beast has always had some of this issue, if anyone tried to "help" us with damage all they REALLY were doing is feeding the mob TP too fast for us to have the pet recover from damage due to the TP abilities; lay off and we were soloing things that normally required 4 monks and a dedicated healer. Pup, we can call a new auto understrength every minute and if it's red or whm auto it can get back to full HP in a hurry, although MP takes awhile. Summoner can get a new full strength avatar in whatever casting time our gear leaves us, but dragoon has to melee, usually in a party and must be actively mixing it up for the wyvern to even function making it the pet MOST likely to be killed-and the longest to recall. All the pets need work, and clearly some different work per job, but dragoon suffers the most based on mandatory playstyle.

[Songen]

5 minute call wyvern, this should have been added years ago. Get people on this, /tell your linkshell, ask your friends, lets get people replying to this already. its stupid how long this recast is.

Everything about dragoon is its pet boosting its master, unlike puppetmaster or summoner which at a minimum is 1 spell or 1 minute away, dragoon doesn't have such a right as to get its pet back up from that 500 dmg AoE move that came while you were paralysed trying to use spirit link when your pet was about to die

[Stuzey]

It's annoying, change jobs, call wyvern, you now have 20 minutes before you can use this ability again, if the party wipes you are screwed, if you get charmed, you are screwed, use original 2 hour, guess what... you are screwed....

[Stuzey]

and the charm thing is ridiculous, no other jobs get weakened after being charmed

[Nyarlko]

and the charm thing is ridiculous, no other jobs get weakened after being charmed

BST also loses it's pet. Given that Bertha is a rather expensive jug, we're looking at either a 20min cd or throwing away 300k+ per use. We know your pain well. ~_~;;

I am in full support of a reduction to the wyvern cd. There really shouldn't be any balance issues at this point if it were lowered to 5min.

Also, this was one heck of a necro XD

[Songen]

I necro'd this one because nothing has been done, i feel people just gave up. however its always best to try again, perhaps we'll get it this time around.

[Songen]

people don't love that little wyvern, poor little guy gonna be dead most of the time :( Wheres the love people?

[Songen]

bumping~~~,
lowered "Call wyvern" recast!!
please make it happen

[Songen]

I'm gonna hump this damn thread until something is done

[Songen]

continues to hump this thread

[Sicycre]

Hello!

As you're no doubt aware, the dragoon will receive the following when their wyvern has reached its maximum level:
Attack+20% / Defense+20% / Haste+10%
In addition, the Gift effect will also apply "Double Attack +10%."

With that said, the buffs that are granted by the wyvern are balanced around the recast time of Call Wyvern and the difficulty around keeping your wyvern at your side.

[Susake]

Any chance they could look into the wyvern not losing its level during/between Geas Fate encounters? I understand it lowering when zoning but not between certain fights within the same area.

[Nyarlko]

Hello!

As you're no doubt aware, the dragoon will receive the following when their wyvern has reached its maximum level:
Attack+20% / Defense+20% / Haste+10%
In addition, the Gift effect will also apply "Double Attack +10%."

With that said, the buffs that are granted by the wyvern are balanced around the recast time of Call Wyvern and the difficulty around keeping your wyvern at your side.

In that case, can you please change any/all encounters that do not properly adjust damage dealt to pets? I know there've been a few times that Ambuscade mobs dealt AOE/magic damage to my pets at 10x the amount that I took. The best explanation I could come up with is that there is some faulty level check within the damage formulas which does not account for ilvl pets.

[Songen]

Very sad day in dragoon history when the rejection becomes official

While having the capacity to use spirit link to level wyvern to cap buffs, kinda sucks that it resets exp poping mobs since you'd want to save spirit link to heal the wyvern

[Jakuk]

*With that said, the buffs that are granted by the wyvern are balanced around the recast time of Call Wyvern and the impossibility of keeping your wyvern at your side.

[Songen]

*With that said, the buffs that are granted by the wyvern are balanced around the recast time of Call Wyvern and the impossibility of keeping your wyvern at your side.

i suppose gotta use steady wing for burning major NM's like WoC or Kirin, if the NM ain't dead in about 30 seconds , then the wyvern is for sure (Because spirit link is 4min30sec recast from buffing when fight started)

[Stuzey]

I can kind of understand keeping the wyvern alive, but if you get charmed you lose the wyvern and we have no abilities which will protect us against this

[Mookies75]

It's incredibly irritating how ignorant or apathetic the dev team is with regards to the survivability of the wyvern. Especially knowing how spammy encounters are now with the added issue of an extremely limited way of healing the wyvern.

Would have been better to just not respond, as your response only shows how out of touch the dev team is with the actual play environment.

I'd rather be able to use the signature part of the job for more than 15-30 seconds instead of worrying about some extra pointless (because wyvern dies) stat balance.

[Songen]

seems more like certain jobs they just down right don't give a crap about, thats why they do nothing about it and only say its already over powered

[Nyarlko]

seems more like certain jobs they just down right don't give a crap about, thats why they do nothing about it and only say its already over powered

I think it's more along the lines of them being scared/worried about potential game balance shifts caused by any "major" adjustment, as long as it's not related to their current darlings, PUP/SMN.) :/

I'm also pretty sure that what I said earlier is accurate. There are definitely quite a few encounters where pets take EXTREME damage and I just don't see something like that being intentional.

So, how about DRG's wyverns get an innate "Damage taken II - 50%" traits? Might seem excessive at first glance, but in my experience, wyverns are at least as squishy as SMN avatars and don't have the extra HP pools that BST pets have, so this might actually be fair. Wyverns are far less micro-manageable than any other pets, so I don't think it would be a bad thing at all to increase their survivability. The value is of course up for adjustment if that is the only thing that would prevent implementation, however, I believe it should be 30% at minimum to allow it to be significant/noticeable even if you hit the DT1 cap. This suggestion bypasses the concerns stated by the ComRep, so please do pass it on to the dev team. :D

[Martel]

The pet DT cap is 87.5%. So I doubt pet DT II will ever exist at all. Also, wyverns already have innate -40% DT.

I find the post DRG death/charm call wyvern downtime to be a far more common issue than the wyvern actually dying.

[Nyarlko]

The pet DT cap is 87.5%. So I doubt pet DT II will ever exist at all. Also, wyverns already have innate -40% DT.

I find the post DRG death/charm call wyvern downtime to be a far more common issue than the wyvern actually dying.

Sorry, was thinking that DT caps work the same way for pets as players and that gear caps @ 50%, then traits like Stout Servant apply on top. Double checking proves that wrong, so no need for the "II" in that case. ^^;; In that case, I'd say bump the native DT to DT-60%+ for those of us who are not awesome enough to not worry about it. If your wyvern is not actually taking much damage, then perhaps use Dismiss to dodge whatever nastiness is heading your way? That should reset the CW timer at least.

[detlef]

I haven't suited up DRG in a long time, is there a way to remove doom on wyverns?

[Songen]

I haven't suited up DRG in a long time, is there a way to remove doom on wyverns?
spirit link for one, also certain potions work towards pets, however most are temp items.

[Technikatwo]

Call Wyvern is causing me to crash in Ambuscade, Omen and a few other battle fields.

[Lordofsinsspawn]

As a Drg main since 2004, I have enjoyed the job even though it used to have a 2 hour pet. I was really happy when it was reduced to 20 minutes and that was great for the time period. We used to worry about keeping our pets alive, however this isn't the case anymore. Our wyverns aren't dying anymore... we are. I've spent thousands of dollars on subs for FFXI and FFXIV combined. I still really enjoy both of them. I've never commented in here because I didn't feel like I'd be heard by the dev team. I would be incredibly greatful if they could adjust "Call wyvern" and "Beastial familiarity" so that when the player dies and the pet lives we the players aren't penalized. 20 minutes is a long time in Dynamis D or Omen. Again keeping our wyvern alive is easy. Charmed status and K.O. are the problem. If the Wyvern dies we deserve the timer penalty. But if it lives and we die please reset the timer. Even bst can use a jug pet to hold it over for the remainder of the timer. I really dont think we are asking for much. Especially when considering what we have done for you and your company. I appreciate your time and thank you for making this awesome game!