20 sets of gear is not enough

[Olor]

I am really super happy about the addition of gearsets, but 20 gear sets is not nearly enough. I know I've heard from some people that they use more sets than that on a single job... I can certainly see how it is possible.

I mean look at the gear you've created - there are pieces that you'd only want to equip while casting stoneskin, pieces you'd only want to equip while casting refresh, pieces only for while casting regen, pieces for only while casting bar spells, etc.

At the very least any melee job is going to want to have a TP, PDT, and a WS set. Given that each WS uses different modifiers, only 3 sets is highly unlikely unless the job is easy-content solo-only or the player doesn't mind being laughed out of content.

I want to emphasize that I am super excited about gear sets and I really appreciate the developer work that has gone into this.

Can devs confirm that this is only the beginning and more gear sets are coming?

[Balloon]

First thing I thought when I saw it. Hoping that the 0xx notation means that they're at least looking into expanding.

To be efficient most people will have TP/TPacc WS/WSacc PDT MDT and then maybe TPmod WSmod.

I suppose you could make the argument that if you're just changing a few pieces you can utilise the same ones and then use the 6 remaining slots in macros to change out.

I'd prefer more slots, because lots of people have lots of jobs. That's the point of FFXI.

[Draylo]

It's 20 sets of gear for each job or all jobs?

[Olor]

I'd hope it was per job but looking at the dev post (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/43454-dev1223-Macro-Editing-Menu-Addition-Equipment-Sets?p=517580&viewfull=1#post517580)it looks like 20 sets total.

[Zeargi]

It's 20 sets of gear for each job or all jobs?

For all jobs, but they did mention that there's a potential to grow. This is most likely a starting base to see if this can work out, remember when we didn't have as many macro books for the jobs?

[Karbuncle]

Well, after rereading it...


As of the August update, it will be possible to register twenty different sets, with that number potentially increasing in future version updates.

I imagine they're starting slow to see how it goes, and adding more in due time. Hopefully, they increase it over time.

[Olor]

Well, after rereading it...

I imagine they're starting slow to see how it goes, and adding more in due time. Hopefully, they increase it over time.

Thanks, I missed that. I really hope so. At the very least this will help me out on a couple jobs for now.

[Lambtor]

This will be great for those NMs that strip all your gear without giving encumberance.

[Malithar]

I mean look at the gear you've created - there are pieces that you'd only want to equip while casting stoneskin, pieces you'd only want to equip while casting refresh, pieces only for while casting regen, pieces for only while casting bar spells, etc.

While we won't know until it's added, they may of thought of this already. The "leave same" and "remove piece" options were surprises to me, I just expected a straight gear set swap. Perhaps for spells like you mentioned, we'll be able to make a standard fast cast set, followed by "leave same" in the slots with +regen potency/duration, +stoneskin, etc, and add those swaps into the remaining lines of your macro. It's not a full fix, as the gear takes up different slots for different spells of course, and for some spells I'm sure there's more than just 4 pieces of specific gear for it, but it's something that might help stretch a few extra sets out.

They did say when it was announced that they planned on launching with 100 sets, so either they ran into a big problem with development time/bugs, or they decided to go smaller at first to see how it worked out. I wonder if they were able to make them saveable server side, that was up in the air last time they mentioned it.

[Makenshi]

what job requires anything near 20 sets?

[Balloon]

Blue Mage, Scholar, Multiple Weaponskill sets, Varying ACC/Haste/Dual Wield sets depending on the situation.

Then the fact that people have multiple jobs. It's not enough.

[Demonjustin]

what job requires anything near 20 sets?RDM.

Off the top of my head RDM sets...


Probably missing some, just woke up.

[Malthar]

This: I want some more. (http://youtu.be/sZrgxHvNNUc)

[Karbuncle]

RDM.

Off the top of my head RDM sets...


Probably missing some, just woke up.

If you can find me one person with every single one of these sets, I'll give you a gold medal. I don't know anyone that anal/thorough.

[Lithera]

If you can find me one person with every single one of these sets, I'll give you a gold medal. I don't know anyone that anal/thorough.

Lol the thing is about rdm demonjustin is or comes close to it

[Karbuncle]

I'd like to see these gear sets though lol, I cannot fathom half of them cannot be combined or have more than 1 armor difference.

[Demonjustin]

I'd like to see these gear sets though lol, I cannot fathom half of them cannot be combined or have more than 1 armor difference.The majority of it is on my AH.com account if you want to look at them. I still have a few left to do since I've not had time as of late to finish updating them all and add the rest of the nuking ones due to triple Dyna & Salvage every day to try to finish my Murgleis soon. ><;

RDM is the only job in this game I play anymore and I take it to the max in every way I can including meleeing. Due to this, I use a lot~ more gear than most people do because I am trying to hit Very Difficult MPNMs and Delve II NMs. It's not the norm nor average, but there are people with that much gear out there for their jobs where 20 sets isn't enough for a single job necessarily, let alone if I played other jobs too. :x



Edit:
If you can find me one person with every single one of these sets, I'll give you a gold medal. I don't know anyone that anal/thorough.Demonjustin (Found it!) Gold Medal (Can I have it?) :D

[Selindrile]

I use that many sets on several jobs, especially Blu, by God, especially Blu, go visit the gearswap threads on BG, you'll find out that it's not uncommon for people to use that many sets.

[Karbuncle]

I know theres people who use many a set, Just never heard of almost 40 sets for a single job. I know of precast sets, Enhancing sets, stoneskin, so forth... 40 just feels so big. but the more I think on it, even my RDM which isn't fully macro'd, has about 18 sets.. 40 though... 40

[Vivivivi]

I think 20 is a good start. For me personally, while I have about half of the jobs decently geared, I primarily play on two or three jobs. For each of those I have an idle set, tp set, ws set, and for some of them I have specialized job ability/magic/-DT sets, I'll definitely cap out the 20 rather quickly but for my main jobs I think it'll be sufficient to start with.

[Malthar]

I use that many sets on several jobs, especially Blu, by God, especially Blu, go visit the gearswap threads on BG, you'll find out that it's not uncommon for people to use that many sets.

What is gearswap?

[Camate]

Hello, everyone!


Well, after rereading it...

I imagine they're starting slow to see how it goes, and adding more in due time. Hopefully, they increase it over time.

It’s as Karbuncle has quoted.

For the August version update when we first implement this feature, we will be starting off with 20 sets. Equipment sets have a large effect on the server and client, so we would like to monitor the conditions with this setup for a while, but we will be looking into expanding the number of sets after the September version update.

[Olor]

Hello, everyone!



It’s as Karbuncle has quoted.

For the August version update when we first implement this feature, we will be starting off with 20 sets. Equipment sets have a large effect on the server and client, so we would like to monitor the conditions with this setup for a while, but we will be looking into expanding the number of sets after the September version update.

Thanks for the assurance Camate!

[Paridise]

What happened to the dev team making 100 sets ready to go at update? i get the testing to see how it acts and see how many use it, but .. it was said at 100 sets then i see 20.. kinda a let down.

[Selindrile]

What is gearswap?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=What+is+gearswap%3F

[Malthar]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=What+is+gearswap%3F
Not the sharpest cookie in the batch, are you?

[Genoxd]

I definitely don't use gearswap because that would mean using a 3rd party application like windower that I also definitely don't use.

That being said. IF I did use the aforementioned items then I would probably tell you that my gearswap lua script (that I don't have because I don't use windower) for SMN would require at minimum 22 item sets to match functionality. These would also require a minimum of 22 different macros to cover swapping into the correct gearset. Then I would also need the macros to actually play SMN.

Even with all that the ability to compute the potency/type of buffs Fenrir/Diabolos will give based on time/moon phase before using the BP and adding the exact values given to to the PT chat so people know that Fenrir just gave them ACC+10 is at the very least neat if not useful.

Of course as I've said I don't use windower or gearswap so all of this is totally theoretical.

[SMD111]

i would need 126 sets just for one jobs weaponskills(of course for the most part it can be used on all jobs)

and that does not include reequipping the correct gear after the weapon skill

[Selindrile]

Malthar: I'm aware of the trolling nature of your post, I've seen your other posts, I simply replied in kind.

In the same vein as the above, I never said I used anything of the sort, only that it is not uncommon for so many sets to be used.

[Makenshi]

People really put up with useing so many sets? sounds like pure hassle.

[Olor]

People really put up with useing so many sets? sounds like pure hassle.

I'd expect that 99.5% of people who use that many sets are using gearswap (3rd party program) or something like it. Not sensible to use the in-game macros for that many swaps.

[SMD111]

I'd expect that 99.5% of people who use that many sets are using gearswap (3rd party program) or something like it. Not sensible to use the in-game macros for that many swaps.

actually its rather easy to do lost of swaps with just the macro system

you can change 5 gears and still do an action

[Afania]

I know theres people who use many a set, Just never heard of almost 40 sets for a single job. I know of precast sets, Enhancing sets, stoneskin, so forth... 40 just feels so big. but the more I think on it, even my RDM which isn't fully macro'd, has about 18 sets.. 40 though... 40

He has that many sets because he has separate tiers for acc/macc, once you start to create different tiers for acc the amount of sets you have will increase. Most good DD also have a couple of tiers of acc/ws acc and do situational swap for DT- hybrid or different buff as well.

If I'm going to post all the different tiers, this is what I got for my COR(which isn't even a complicate job, unlike RDM):

Idle
PDT-
Melee full dmg
Melee low acc
Melee mid acc
Melee max acc
Exenterator (I don't do acc tiers for dagger WS cuz I rarely use it in endgame)
Evisceration
Requiescat low acc
Requiescat high acc
Last stand low acc
Last stand full acc
Last stand full dmg
Last stand enmity-
Wildfire
Wildfire on full moon
Wildfire with obi
Wildfire enmity-
Leaden salute
Leaden salute on full moon
Leaden salute with obi
Leaden salute enmity-
QD
QD on full moon
QD with obi/zodiac ring
QD full macc
QD macc with recast
QD full dmg(no recast)
Phantom roll(old rolls)
Phantom roll(regain roll)
Phantom roll(allie's roll)
Phantom roll(courser's roll)
Phantom roll(fast cast roll)
Phantom roll(lolblitzer's roll)
Random deal
Wild card
Fold
Snake eye
Fast cast
Cure potency
MP+
refresh idle
Snapshot precast
ranged full acc
ranged mid acc
ranged full dmg
ranged DP 6 hit
ranged Pulfanxa 5 hit

That is 49 sets, which doesn't include weapon swap, for a job that's often being played naked....I have 10 daggers and 3 swords, if I'm going to include different weapon combinations it's going to take forever to list them all. I'm missing regen idle(too lazy), stoneskin set(I hate /WHM so all my /WHM sets are gimp) and different acc tiers for dagger WS. I also don't have a proper MDT-/BDT- and such.

Although you can argue that JA doesn't count because it's just swapping 1 piece :p Even without JA sets it's still well over 40 sets. So 40 is really not anything rare, especially for jobs like RDM which is one of the most complicated job in this game.

And yes, I think it's pure hassle to have that many gears, but besides collecting gears and make more sets there aren't anything else that I'm interested in this game ._. Whenever I spend time for FFXI, I'm either playing with spreadsheet to build more sets or hunting down gears for more sets >.>


I'd expect that 99.5% of people who use that many sets are using gearswap (3rd party program) or something like it. Not sensible to use the in-game macros for that many swaps.


I guess I'm the 0.5% of ppl that's gear set fanatic and use 0 tools(including windower).

[fernando]

People really put up with useing so many sets? sounds like pure hassle.

I thought the same, but then I actually checked my gear sets across all my jobs and 20 isn't near enough. Hell, just WHM and BLM alone easily consume that number and then some, and I ascribe to the KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) philosophy.

[Camate]

Hello, everyone.

I’m bumping this thread to give you a heads up on what’s planned for the equipment set feature with a full explanation from Yoji Fujito.



Hello,

In the next version update scheduled for early October we will be increasing the amount of equipment sets. When this happens, the internal behavior of this feature will change a bit, and I would like to explain how it will change. For a full explanation about equipment sets, please refer to the August version update notes (“http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/43706-Aug-12-2014-%28JST%29-Version-Update”).

Equipment Set Menu Changes
When accessing the “Edit Equip. Set” menu, there will be buttons for sets 1-20 displayed as usual. However, when pressing the right or left on your gamepad or keyboard, it will shift to a new array of 20 buttons.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/attachment.php?attachmentid=10363&d=1411643791&thumb=1 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/attachment.php?attachmentid=10363&d=1411643791) http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/attachment.php?attachmentid=10364&d=1411643797&thumb=1 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/attachment.php?attachmentid=10364&d=1411643797)

You can register your gear to the equipment set of your choice and when using the “/equipset” command you’ll be able to indicate the set number as usual.

That’s all for the changes to the screen. Next up is the internal stuff.

From here on out this is only something that I wanted to explain beforehand, and nine times out of ten there will be no problems. As this is only an explanation and heads-up geared towards some players, please feel free to read if you are interested.

I mentioned previously that the reason why we had to push back the expansion of the equipment set feature was due to technical problems that arose, but specifically it was a problem with memory access.
If we were to implement 100 sets like this on memory, it would have caused some problems with the base portion of the feature.

In order to solve this problem, we made it so we keep the current base of 20 sets, and the remaining 80 sets would be loaded from memory storage as needed.

Due to this, the first time you use /equipset for a specific set it will access memory storage. When repetitively using /equipset to call the same sets, there will already be memory data for them and it will not have to load it from memory storage.
(For those of you how are programming savvy, it’s cached in the memory.)

This memory loading will be saved up to the 20 most recent sets. It may feel similar to that of the synthesis history list.

However, when opening the “Edit Equip. Set” menu, data loading is necessary. This includes equipment set names, so the memory will be completely overwritten with the data of one page worth of sets (20 sets).

So, why am I telling you all this? This loading time may affect the behavior of macros for those of you who use equipment set macros and write macros that contain specific timings for set swaps.

Due to this, we expect that timing-wise the behavior will be different between the first time you change equipment and the second time onward. In most cases the loading should be so minor that there shouldn’t be any problem, but when executing this command in places where there is a lot of loading going on, there may be some effects.

However, I really don’t think that there are any occasions where you will swap out more than 20 different sets in a single battle, so this may just be worrying about nothing.

On a side-note, there have been requests asking to call on equipment sets by their names, but if we were to address this, the processing speed would definitely slow down regardless of whether it’s in the memory or not. This is because it would have to check every character string in order. (Numbers make the process much swifter.)

The more we increase the number of equipment sets the more noticeable this would become, so we’ve currently put off this aspect. Essentially it would result in feeling something close to that of the /itemsearch process.

So with all that said, while there are slight concerns, there really won’t be any large issues. We hope you’ll be able to put the new equipment sets to good use.

[Olor]

Thanks Camate

[Olor]

I guess I'm the 0.5% of ppl that's gear set fanatic and use 0 tools(including windower).

Do you have any tips for flipping though palettes without getting lost?

[Seillan]

I hate to be that guy, but I seriously don't know how you guys don't find swapping gear for every little thing a total chore. I just came back to the game (now that I finally have time to get something done) and the thought of needing to deal with this later on is a huge deterrent. I know you don't technically have to do it, but I wouldn't want to be dead weight in groups so I'd end up doing it in the end. If nothing else, isn't it annoying seeing your character phase in and phase out repeatedly while fighting? I'm not sure I could ever get used to that.

[Alhanelem]

I hate to be that guy, but I seriously don't know how you guys don't find swapping gear for every little thing a total chore. I just came back to the game (now that I finally have time to get something done) and the thought of needing to deal with this later on is a huge deterrent. I know you don't technically have to do it, but I wouldn't want to be dead weight in groups so I'd end up doing it in the end. If nothing else, isn't it annoying seeing your character phase in and phase out repeatedly while fighting? I'm not sure I could ever get used to that.
The main thing I don't like about this is the amount of set-up that goes into it and inventory space woes. I know some people will do ANYTHING to minmax even if it means clearing out all 160 inventory spaces for equipment, but sometimes the benefit is just too marginal for the frustration involved in putting it together and getting it to work perfectly every time.

Outside of the fact that there is currently very minimal gear with special effects, I honestly prefer FFXIV's policy of not having gear swapping in combat (The only time ive ever wanted to do this in XIV on summoner where I often swap my jewelry to strengthen the pet I'm going to use- not being able to do it during a fight means if something goes wrong im screwed :p ). I don't have to devote as much inventory space to gear and I can focus more on just doing my job and doing it well.

Of course part of the reason I hated swapping gear was because I wanted to maintain a certain appearance. /lockstyle doesn't work well enough because you have to keep doing it every time you zone.

[Seillan]

The main thing I don't like about this is the amount of set-up that goes into it and inventory space woes. I know some people will do ANYTHING to minmax even if it means clearing out all 160 inventory spaces for equipment, but sometimes the benefit is just too marginal for the frustration involved in putting it together and getting it to work perfectly every time.

Outside of the fact that there is currently very minimal gear with special effects, I honestly prefer FFXIV's policy of not having gear swapping in combat (The only time ive ever wanted to do this in XIV on summoner where I often swap my jewelry to strengthen the pet I'm going to use- not being able to do it during a fight means if something goes wrong im screwed :p ). I don't have to devote as much inventory space to gear and I can focus more on just doing my job and doing it well.

Of course part of the reason I hated swapping gear was because I wanted to maintain a certain appearance. /lockstyle doesn't work well enough because you have to keep doing it every time you zone.

Yeah, I imagine that will be one of my main frustrations later on as well. I wasn't aware of the /lockstyle option. That's a shame it resets every time you zone. If they had an option to use it permanently, that'd be one less annoyance at least.

[Olor]

Yeah, I imagine that will be one of my main frustrations later on as well. I wasn't aware of the /lockstyle option. That's a shame it resets every time you zone. If they had an option to use it permanently, that'd be one less annoyance at least.

On the bright side, I can't think of a single event where you zone out during the event so the blinking should be off during any event you're doing ...

You can also entirely shut off blinking now in the settings... but it makes everyone look like they are playing in their underwear... which I don't like.

[Catmato]

That's a shame it resets every time you zone.It also resets when you change your weapon.

but it makes everyone look like they are playing in their underwear... which I don't like.They changed that to lv1 RSE quite a while ago.

[Bebekeke]

I know you don't technically have to do it, but I wouldn't want to be dead weight in groups so I'd end up doing it in the end.

I did it a bit at a time.

For example:

THF was my main job, so at first I just did THF gear swaps. A TP, and a WS set. Then I collected more gear and was able to go for an eva set. Then added a -PDT set and so on.

Then I chose the next job (might have been BLM) so I made a nuking set and a /heal set. Then I added enfeebling, then a cure set, stoneskin set (I doubt it's required these days), INT set for ele enfeebs, etc.

Doing it a bit at a time, and a job at a time takes a lot of the stress out of setting it all up.

[mattkoko]

I hate to be that guy, but I seriously don't know how you guys don't find swapping gear for every little thing a total chore. I just came back to the game (now that I finally have time to get something done) and the thought of needing to deal with this later on is a huge deterrent. I know you don't technically have to do it, but I wouldn't want to be dead weight in groups so I'd end up doing it in the end. If nothing else, isn't it annoying seeing your character phase in and phase out repeatedly while fighting? I'm not sure I could ever get used to that.

I honestly don't think you would be a dead weight if you don't do it for every single thing. As far as melee goes, the only thing I would make sure of is having what I call a brute force set, and an acc set. Most big events usually have a brd or a cor for acc anyway but if for whatever reason there isn't one, swap to the acc set. This is personally what I do for drk, plus a few magic swaps for absorb spells, drain, dread spikes etc.

Mage jobs I guess can be a bit more complicated though. I am a career DD mostly so not going to talk out of my ass about stuff I am not sure of. Recently I picked up whm and I know there are quite a few core swaps for that for buff enhancement, healing, cursna etc. But if you are a DD, you really don't have to go too crazy. The only time you would be a dead weight is if you are missing a tone and don't have an acc set to swap to.

[Trumpy]

Also anytime u change your weapon lockstyle resets, so mage jobs it doesnt always help

[Genoxd]

My summoner is currently at 80 inventory slots and it would be at around 120 if I didn't restrain myself

[Shirai]

My summoner is currently at 80 inventory slots and it would be at around 120 if I didn't restrain myself

My Summoner is at 95 items at the moment, thankfully the majority of that gear is shared with my other mage jobs so that goes into the wardrobe.

[Seillan]

I honestly don't think you would be a dead weight if you don't do it for every single thing. As far as melee goes, the only thing I would make sure of is having what I call a brute force set, and an acc set. Most big events usually have a brd or a cor for acc anyway but if for whatever reason there isn't one, swap to the acc set. This is personally what I do for drk, plus a few magic swaps for absorb spells, drain, dread spikes etc.

Mage jobs I guess can be a bit more complicated though. I am a career DD mostly so not going to talk out of my ass about stuff I am not sure of. Recently I picked up whm and I know there are quite a few core swaps for that for buff enhancement, healing, cursna etc. But if you are a DD, you really don't have to go too crazy. The only time you would be a dead weight is if you are missing a tone and don't have an acc set to swap to.

That's good to hear. I've always been more of a melee/hybrid kind of guy, so classes like DRK, SAM, and RUN are some of the most interesting to me. The game has so much to offer that I can imagine it's well worth getting used to the gear swapping system. I do wish they'd make a permanent option for the /lockstyle thing though.

In any case, thanks for the responses everyone :).

[Dale]

That's good to hear. I've always been more of a melee/hybrid kind of guy, so classes like DRK, SAM, and RUN are some of the most interesting to me. The game has so much to offer that I can imagine it's well worth getting used to the gear swapping system. I do wish they'd make a permanent option for the /lockstyle thing though.

In any case, thanks for the responses everyone :).

Agree. The /lockstyle thing needs to become a permanent effect rather one that dissipates after you zone. And not only for aesthetic purposes (which is important too) but because it's essential if they are going to start more actively encouraging people to swap gear during combat. Trying to heal someone who is constantly changing equipment is extremely annoying unless they use the /lockstyle command.

I hope they make doing this a top priority because I think it warrants it.

This game has a huge assortment of interesting and useful gear though. Far more so than many other games especially its counterpart where the gear consists of only giving you a few extra points into a stat and that's about it. Whoop Dee Doo. So I think this game does a good job at offering players a wide assortment of interesting and effective gear.

[Afania]

Do you have any tips for flipping though palettes without getting lost?

I usually hover around 3 palettes, I put JA that doesn't use often enough far away. Sometimes I manually change sets before/mid event so I use less palette to avoid getting lost.

[Afania]

I hate to be that guy, but I seriously don't know how you guys don't find swapping gear for every little thing a total chore. I just came back to the game (now that I finally have time to get something done) and the thought of needing to deal with this later on is a huge deterrent. I know you don't technically have to do it, but I wouldn't want to be dead weight in groups so I'd end up doing it in the end. If nothing else, isn't it annoying seeing your character phase in and phase out repeatedly while fighting? I'm not sure I could ever get used to that.


This game kinda need gear swapping to have substance though.

As "annoying seeing your character phase in and out repeatly" issue.....honestly the only thing I ever stare at on DD jobs are my HP/TP and chat log. If I play mages I only stare at PT HP/MP bar and chat log as well. Tbh I rarely look at my character in events :X Any sec I spend on looking at my character on DD jobs I'd lose DPS due to over TP, any sec I spend on looking at my char instead of PT HP my pt would start dying. So no, I don't really feel annoyed with my character blinking. If I want to look at my character I do that in town/MH.

[Finuve]

I hate to be that guy, but I seriously don't know how you guys don't find swapping gear for every little thing a total chore. I just came back to the game (now that I finally have time to get something done) and the thought of needing to deal with this later on is a huge deterrent. I know you don't technically have to do it, but I wouldn't want to be dead weight in groups so I'd end up doing it in the end. If nothing else, isn't it annoying seeing your character phase in and phase out repeatedly while fighting? I'm not sure I could ever get used to that.multiple reasons, one it adds an extra layer to combat. Two it makes gearing your job properly more difficult and thus more engaging. Three it allows for preparation for battle to be as important as the battle itself. Four, it makes it so you are constantly needing gear for your job without destroying things you have already worked for, and I love this since I absolutely hate the gear treadmill style of most MMOs. I'm pretty sure many people agree with that considering how poorly seekers was received when it released.

Also, since you are just coming back you might have missed /lockstyle on, it will stop you from blinking unless you are on a job that has to swap weapons, and can let you toss on whatever looking gear you want (I always run around in charis on DNC now). I never minded the blinking so much, I always likened it to FFX-2 job changes mid battle, without the flashy animation.

[Vivivivi]

Hello, everyone.

I’m bumping this thread to give you a heads up on what’s planned for the equipment set feature with a full explanation from Yoji Fujito.

Thanks for the detailed explanation about this feature.

Is it safe to assume if you assign your gearsets for a single job in one 'page' of sets, the loading delay won't be an issue?
For example if all my equipment sets for Warrior are assigned within slots 1-20, and I macro them in, there shouldn't be a problem, but if I split my warrior sets between 1-40, I would potentially experience lag?

[Olor]

I usually hover around 3 palettes, I put JA that doesn't use often enough far away. Sometimes I manually change sets before/mid event so I use less palette to avoid getting lost.

Thanks for the tips. This has always kept me from maximizing my macros... its just too easy to get lost

[Olor]

it makes it so you are constantly needing gear for your job without destroying things you have already worked for, and I love this since I absolutely hate the gear treadmill style of most MMOs. I'm pretty sure many people agree with that considering how poorly seekers was received when it released.


this so much. This is what made XI so awesome for so long. It's a shame the devs felt like they needed to obsolete this approach.

[Blah]

Ah, wouldn't it also be better for it to have its own macro palette for it? Like maybe hit the macro button and then hit the arrow key or something like that?

[Seillan]

This game kinda need gear swapping to have substance though.

As "annoying seeing your character phase in and out repeatly" issue.....honestly the only thing I ever stare at on DD jobs are my HP/TP and chat log. If I play mages I only stare at PT HP/MP bar and chat log as well. Tbh I rarely look at my character in events :X Any sec I spend on looking at my character on DD jobs I'd lose DPS due to over TP, any sec I spend on looking at my char instead of PT HP my pt would start dying. So no, I don't really feel annoyed with my character blinking. If I want to look at my character I do that in town/MH.

I kind of feel that if those are the only things important to you in a game like this, why not just play MUDs? To me, the graphical element is just is important as what's going on under the hood, hence why the blinking would probably bother me after awhile. Also, is the combat system really fast paced enough later on to where it would really screw things up to look up once in awhile? I was under the impression that FFXI's combat system wasn't quite as unforgiving/hectic as some, in regards to speed of execution.


multiple reasons, one it adds an extra layer to combat. Two it makes gearing your job properly more difficult and thus more engaging. Three it allows for preparation for battle to be as important as the battle itself. Four, it makes it so you are constantly needing gear for your job without destroying things you have already worked for, and I love this since I absolutely hate the gear treadmill style of most MMOs. I'm pretty sure many people agree with that considering how poorly seekers was received when it released.

Also, since you are just coming back you might have missed /lockstyle on, it will stop you from blinking unless you are on a job that has to swap weapons, and can let you toss on whatever looking gear you want (I always run around in charis on DNC now). I never minded the blinking so much, I always likened it to FFX-2 job changes mid battle, without the flashy animation.

Yeah, I'll definitely be using /lockstyle if I end up sticking it out -- at least for jobs that don't do a lot of weapon switching. And thanks for the run down -- I'm starting to see why the gear swapping thing is considered more of a feature than a burden. It does seem a little excessive in some cases though.

[Afania]

I kind of feel that if those are the only things important to you in a game like this, why not just play MUDs? To me, the graphical element is just is important as what's going on under the hood, hence why the blinking would probably bother me after awhile. Also, is the combat system really fast paced enough later on to where it would really screw things up to look up once in awhile? I was under the impression that FFXI's combat system wasn't quite as unforgiving/hectic as some, in regards to speed of execution.


You don't get to see your character in town/MH in MUD though. Also, it's not that I can choose, the game forces player to stare at chat log/HP bar/TP bar....unless you enjoy bad performance, you just kinda have to. I just play the game as intended.

FFXI's combat is actually quit fast in endgame under super buffed situation, it's very, very easy to over TP especially for certain setup....mainly mythic AM3 DD with Samurai's roll on. I play 1h DD as well, which has lower delay and much easier to over TP.

[geekgirl101]

Gearswap will be far more favourable by elitists who want the best of the best out of every situation. The thing is Gearswap is part of an external program used to interact with FFXI, and according to POL/FFXI rules you are not supposed to run such programs and by using them you are at risk of having your account suspended indefinitely.

Equipsets and the current macro system are still limiting despite their attempts at being improved to encourage people into using them instead of seeking external programs. Since there's no all-in-one gear item for a specific action you'll find yourself swapping up to 4 different sets just for 1 action to maximise everything from action cast speed, action damage, action accuracy, action recast reduction, and then your normal gear. That's 5 equipsets already taken up just for 1 action, and with some actions a single item change may affect it more beneficially which means you have to find a way to swap it in without wasting another equipset just for that 1 item. However the number of macro lines per macro is limited to 6 for the sake of PS2 users, so you couldn't even create a macro such as:

/equipset Haste
/cast "Mage's Ballad III" <me>
/equipset SongBuff
/equip legs "Aodios' Rhingrave +2"
/wait 4
/equipset Recast
/equipset IdlePDT

That's 7 lines, and some other spells may have 2 or 3 item changes to them that creating a whole new equipset for those 2 or 3 different items is just not economical but the game design has left us very little choice in the matter. And as for augmented gear I've no idea if the equipset system knows to only equip the ring you put in it with the -5 PDT or if it goes bonkers after you put 2 rings of the same name in your bag and instead equips the one you put in your bags first with the -6 MDT.

[Malithar]

/equipset Haste
/cast "Mage's Ballad III" <me>
/equipset SongBuff
/equip legs "Aodios' Rhingrave +2"
/wait 4
/equipset Recast
/equipset IdlePDT

/equipset Haste
/ma "Mage's Ballad III" <stpc>
/equipset SongBuff /wait 1
/equip legs "Aodios' Rhingrave +2" /wait 2
/equipset Recast /wait 1
/equipset IdlePDT

Not saying this absolutely will work, but it may. /waits were changed a long time ago to work within macro lines so they didn't need their own individual line. The /wait 1s at the end of each is to prevent multiple sets outgoing packet from going off at once, causing you to equip pieces from multiple different ones. Other than the timing on those (4 sec long enough from start to finish of cast?) and if multiple waits within a single macro actually works or not, the above should work.

As far as if sets can identify different pieces of the same named gear, they can, as long as you don't move them from the bag that the set was assigned in. IE, if you create the set and a Dark Ring is in your sack, and a second in your Satchel, as long as they remain there, it'll know which is which. If you move them from their designated bags though, it loses that info and just does a general quarry to equip it, which may not equip the specific piece you actually want.

Edit: To be clear, since you've got Haste, Songbuff, and Recast, this won't work as expected. Haste would be your precast set, your Fast Cast, -casting time, etc pieces. Songbuff would need to contain +skills, +song, etc gear. The Recast set specifically won't do what you may think, as the Songbuff set would need to remain equipped until the song has finished casting to have the desired effect. However, when the song finishes is also when recast time (haste and fast cast effects) is determined; you can't double dip and get the best of both worlds. That would need to be done within the set itself, giving you a single potency/recast set.

[geekgirl101]

/equipset Haste
/ma "Mage's Ballad III" <stpc>
/equipset SongBuff /wait 1
/equip legs "Aodios' Rhingrave +2" /wait 2
/equipset Recast /wait 1
/equipset IdlePDT

Interesting, had no idea they changed the /wait commands, it's worth giving it a try. The issue with needing to equip 2 or more pieces of armour without having to create a new equipset still stands though, but maybe when SE add more for us to play with it won't be so bad on those who play more than 3 or 4 jobs.

[Dale]

I hate to be that guy, but I seriously don't know how you guys don't find swapping gear for every little thing a total chore. I just came back to the game (now that I finally have time to get something done) and the thought of needing to deal with this later on is a huge deterrent. I know you don't technically have to do it, but I wouldn't want to be dead weight in groups so I'd end up doing it in the end. If nothing else, isn't it annoying seeing your character phase in and phase out repeatedly while fighting? I'm not sure I could ever get used to that.

I don't either to be honest. So you aren't the only one who feels that way.

They are right when they say it brings more substance to the battle system. It also gives more relevance to many gear pieces. Those are good things. But the problem is the way its implemented is so clunky it's just a chore to use. Hit this macro to change clothes to use this move. Then hit that macro get back into your regular clothes. Now hit another macro to put on some different clothes before you have to hit that macro again to put your regular clothes back on. It's just horribly designed and many of my friends left the game because they felt the same way you did and just couldn't deal with it. And to make matters worse, it's so effective you really have to do it if you want to excel at your character.

What they need to do is re-design how the system works. And to be fair they seem to be in the process of doing that. The way I would do it is create something like a skill tree - only instead of putting passive points into an ability to make it stronger you select different gear pieces from your inventory. I think that could work.

[Afania]

I don't either to be honest. So you aren't the only one who feels that way.

They are right when they say it brings more substance to the battle system. It also gives more relevance to many gear pieces. Those are good things. But the problem is the way its implemented is so clunky it's just a chore to use. Hit this macro to change clothes to use this move. Then hit that macro get back into your regular clothes. Now hit another macro to put on some different clothes before you have to hit that macro again to put your regular clothes back on. It's just horribly designed and many of my friends left the game because they felt the same way you did and just couldn't deal with it. And to make matters worse, it's so effective you really have to do it if you want to excel at your character.

What they need to do is re-design how the system works. And to be fair they seem to be in the process of doing that. The way I would do it is create something like a skill tree - only instead of putting passive points into an ability to make it stronger you select different gear pieces from your inventory. I think that could work.

Needing to hit the macro often isn't that bad, since there aren't enough buttons to click in this game. In most MMO you're hitting buttons even more often than FFXI. If I can't gear swap in FFXI there won't be enough stuff to do in combat.

If they need to remove gear swap, then the entire battle system needs a redesign so players have more things to do during the combat. IMO redesigning a 12 year old MMO is just a waste of resource.

[Bebekeke]

Interesting, had no idea they changed the /wait commands, it's worth giving it a try. The issue with needing to equip 2 or more pieces of armour without having to create a new equipset still stands though, but maybe when SE add more for us to play with it won't be so bad on those who play more than 3 or 4 jobs.

I believe that a wait command at the end of a line has to be <wait 1> not /wait 1.

<wait 1> certainly works, anyway.

[Dale]

Needing to hit the macro often isn't that bad, since there aren't enough buttons to click in this game. In most MMO you're hitting buttons even more often than FFXI. If I can't gear swap in FFXI there won't be enough stuff to do in combat.

If they need to remove gear swap, then the entire battle system needs a redesign so players have more things to do during the combat. IMO redesigning a 12 year old MMO is just a waste of resource.

This probably depends on what job you play. Certain jobs are a lot more busy than others. For example - when I play my Red Mage I have the opposite problem and can't find enough time do all of the things I want to do.

So I don't think that's an issue with this game's battle system. It's more of an issue with certain jobs on this game are just designed too slow with not enough to do. And usually I would agree with you about a waste of resources on such an old product. But the truth is the newer MMORPGs are such crap these days (especially when it comes to their battle systems) that this game not only still competes well with them, but surpasses them. So I would like to see the resources put in place to refine the system.

I think it would be time well spent. And might would attract players who left over this.

[Dale]

Interesting, had no idea they changed the /wait commands, it's worth giving it a try. The issue with needing to equip 2 or more pieces of armour without having to create a new equipset still stands though, but maybe when SE add more for us to play with it won't be so bad on those who play more than 3 or 4 jobs.

It does work. But not well in my opinion. Long macros with <wait> commands will cancel if you have to move or are knock backed during them. So you are likely to get stuck mid-action with God knows what equipment on.

[Afania]

But the truth is the newer MMORPGs are such crap these days (especially when it comes to their battle systems) that this game not only still competes well with them, but surpasses them.

So, newer MMO with ability to use every 0.5 sec has crap battle system, while FFXI without gear swap has better battle system? >.>

Sounds like it's your personal preference. The fact is, majority of the player would rather click 100 buttons while playing MMO or else it's considered "no skill involved", that's why we see so many abilities in WoW!

[Dale]

So, newer MMO with ability to use every 0.5 sec has crap battle system, while FFXI without gear swap has better battle system? >.>

Sounds like it's your personal preference. The fact is, majority of the player would rather click 100 buttons while playing MMO or else it's considered "no skill involved", that's why we see so many abilities in WoW!

Just mindlessly hitting a bunch of buttons over and over though isn't my idea of fun, no matter how quickly or fast it is done. Final Fantasy XI has a strategic element to its combat that makes it more interesting than newer MMORPGs. WoW for example may have a lot of abilities. But considering I can easily dispatch monsters my own level on that game while I'm afk with the auto attack button (while being nude and with a fishing pole) it cheapened the need for abilities at all. Though WoW really isn't what I would consider a newer MMORPG. A more recent one would be this game's sequel, where the majority of my combat technique when soloing on my White Mage consist of pushing Stone 2 over and over until monster is dead. Not exactly mentally stimulating. And the combat quickly starts to feel like a mindless chore rather an actual engagement I am involved in.

But anyway, I'm not against the gear swapping in theory. I just think the way players use different gear to enhance their abilities should be made into a more user friendly and less annoying process. Constantly having to change your clothes during battle just feels clunky and unwieldy to me. Not to mention it's just a silly concept anyway. So I think there are better ways to design a system were players use different pieces of gear to get the most out of their abilities while still maintaining the strategic element players find appealing. I made a suggestion as to this in an earlier post.

[Malithar]

I believe that a wait command at the end of a line has to be <wait 1> not /wait 1.

<wait 1> certainly works, anyway.

This. However multiple <wait #>s within the same macro does work it looks like. (http://www.playonline.com/pcd/verup/ff11us/detail/6240/6240_25.jpg)

[Seillan]

Just mindlessly hitting a bunch of buttons over and over though isn't my idea of fun, no matter how quickly or fast it is done. Final Fantasy XI has a strategic element to its combat that makes it more interesting than newer MMORPGs. WoW for example may have a lot of abilities. But considering I can easily dispatch monsters my own level on that game while I'm afk with the auto attack button (while being nude and with a fishing pole) it cheapened the need for abilities at all. Though WoW really isn't what I would consider a newer MMORPG. A more recent one would be this game's sequel, where the majority of my combat technique when soloing on my White Mage consist of pushing Stone 2 over and over until monster is dead. Not exactly mentally stimulating. And the combat quickly starts to feel like a mindless chore rather an actual engagement I am involved in.

But anyway, I'm not against the gear swapping in theory. I just think the way players use different gear to enhance their abilities should be made into a more user friendly and less annoying process. Constantly having to change your clothes during battle just feels clunky and unwieldy to me. Not to mention it's just a silly concept anyway. So I think there are better ways to design a system were players use different pieces of gear to get the most out of their abilities while still maintaining the strategic element players find appealing. I made a suggestion as to this in an earlier post.

Amen. I'll never understand how some equate hitting an endless array of buttons every second to "fun" or "challenging." It's just monotonous busy work in my opinion. It's one of the reason I miss turn based systems in old jrpgs. I want to actually think while I'm fighting; not just faceroll my memorized rotation (*shiver* ugh, I hate that word...) in the correct sequence every fight. In fairness, FFXI doesn't seem nearly that bad, but I'd still prefer a combat system where I can stop and smell the roses once in awhile instead of having to make sure I'm pressing something every half a second.

I'm with you on your suggestions too, by the way.

[Afania]

Amen. I'll never understand how some equate hitting an endless array of buttons every second to "fun" or "challenging." It's just monotonous busy work in my opinion. It's one of the reason I miss turn based systems in old jrpgs. I want to actually think while I'm fighting; not just faceroll my memorized rotation (*shiver* ugh, I hate that word...) in the correct sequence every fight. In fairness, FFXI doesn't seem nearly that bad, but I'd still prefer a combat system where I can stop and smell the roses once in awhile instead of having to make sure I'm pressing something every half a second.

I'm with you on your suggestions too, by the way.

Well, it doesn't matter what you preference is though, it's a fact that current market for a turn based/slower battle system is small.

Almost no MMO uses turn based battle system anymore, almost every title focus on action and more actions. That wasn't the case 10 years ago. Single player RPG is facing the same change....look at FF15.

If turn based battle system is still accepted by the majority, EQN would have same system as EQ1 and 2, FF15 would have the same system as FF10.

[Seillan]

Well, it doesn't matter what you preference is though, it's a fact that current market for a turn based/slower battle system is small.

Almost no MMO uses turn based battle system anymore, almost every title focus on action and more actions. That wasn't the case 10 years ago. Single player RPG is facing the same change....look at FF15.

If turn based battle system is still accepted by the majority, EQN would have same system as EQ1 and 2, FF15 would have the same system as FF10.

I didn't say my preference mattered; I simply stated that it was my preference. I'm well aware that I'm in the minority (although then again, exactly how many AAA mmorpgs have even been made with a turn-based system exactly, in order to even test that for sure?) but it doesn't make the popularity of mindless, monotonous combat systems any less confusing to me. I'd use the McDonald's or Miley Cyrus analogies here -- sure, they both have tons of customers/fans, but neither of them exactly represent the pinnacle of quality by any stretch.

And come to think of it, there are a few turn-based mmorps that have done quite well in recent years, despite having questionable companies running them -- Wizard101 and Atlantica Online. One of them mainly appeals to kids and the other has a bad reputation for having a P2W cashshop, yet they still seem to be quite popular (although I don't have any solid numbers to go by, just anecdotal testimony.) You could even throw EVE in there for good measure, as it's slow paced enough to fit the category. I imagine if a company like SE or Blizzard ever attempted to make a AAA mmorpg with a turn-based system, we'd see just how popular or unpopular it really was by comparison. I think it would do pretty well, personally.

Edit: Fixed the analogy.

[Olor]

I'd still prefer a combat system where I can stop and smell the roses once in awhile instead of having to make sure I'm pressing something every half a second.

I'm with you on your suggestions too, by the way.

I dunno, you have to press a button for your abilities to go off regardless, I don't see how it's more work for you to press a macro than going into the menu to hit a weaponskill for example. Unless you just wanna auto-attack the whole battle, in which case... yeah.

And most people can get by in most content with some really simple macros... basically a WS macro, a TP set, and a damage reduction set... and you can do just fine in 95% of content.

That said, casting jobs require more sets... but that's cause they do more things. If you want to minimize macros just play a DD. Obviously it's not optimal playing that way, but play with like-minded friends and it shouldn't matter.

But yeah, sorry if you wanna play bard or something, you're gonna need a few more macros or your songs will take forever to cast or they will be super weak...

[Afania]

I didn't say my preference mattered; I simply stated that it was my preference. I'm well aware that I'm in the minority (although then again, exactly how many AAA mmorpgs have even been made with a turn-based system exactly

There are quite a few turn based MMORPG from Japan 10 years ago, but most of them are gone now. One of the more classic title I can think of(in Japan at least), is probably nobunaga's ambition online by Koei. Just like many other Japanese MMORPG like PSO2, I don't think they release English version in the west. This game was released in 2003 on PS2, same era as FFXI. Then it got PS3 version and now PS4 + HD graphics. At that time it's certainly AAA quality title with depth in combat/classes and pretty graphics.

Kinda a shame that SE can't give PS4/PS3/HD graphics to FFXI when Koei can, for a game without western market.

You can check out the combat here: (PS4 version)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OUZCwA6NZM

[Seillan]

There are quite a few turn based MMORPG from Japan 10 years ago, but most of them are gone now. One of the more classic title I can think of(in Japan at least), is probably nobunaga's ambition online by Koei. Just like many other Japanese MMORPG like PSO2, I don't think they release English version in the west. This game was released in 2003 on PS2, same era as FFXI. Then it got PS3 version and now PS4 + HD graphics. At that time it's certainly AAA quality title with depth in combat/classes and pretty graphics.

Kinda a shame that SE can't give PS4/PS3/HD graphics to FFXI when Koei can, for a game without western market.

You can check out the combat here: (PS4 version)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OUZCwA6NZM

Wow, that looks pretty awesome! I've heard of that game over the years, but I honestly wasn't sure what kind of game it was. It truly is a shame that it (along with PSO2) wasn't released in the West because I think they'd add some much needed variety to the genre. I was especially upset about PSO2 as I was always a huge fan of PSO (I still play it sometimes, in fact.) I know you can play with the translation patch, but considering the trouble people are having with their ISPs now (many needing to use a VPN to circumvent connection problems) I decided not to fool with it. I haven't really looked into the SEA version though -- I wonder how that's going?

[Dale]

Amen. I'll never understand how some equate hitting an endless array of buttons every second to "fun" or "challenging." It's just monotonous busy work in my opinion. It's one of the reason I miss turn based systems in old jrpgs. I want to actually think while I'm fighting; not just faceroll my memorized rotation (*shiver* ugh, I hate that word...) in the correct sequence every fight. In fairness, FFXI doesn't seem nearly that bad, but I'd still prefer a combat system where I can stop and smell the roses once in awhile instead of having to make sure I'm pressing something every half a second.

I'm with you on your suggestions too, by the way.

I hate the word rotation as well. So you are not alone in that. Just fancy way to say mindlessly spam the same combination of moves over and over.

And I'm the same way. I've always preferred combat that requires strategy and well-thought out actions over repetitive reflex-driven gameplay. For example: I am so sick of having to dodge evil circles on the ground I'm about to to start boycotting any RPG game that has them. Because the challenge of a Role Playing Game game should be about how well you actually execute your role in combat. Not how fast I can push buttons or dodge traps, which seems to be the main focus in modern titles.

RPG games just don't work well in my opinion when they try to become some half-baked action game.

Also, thank you for supporting my suggestion ^^