Remove jug pet caps altogether! Pet Level = /checkparam item level

[ZoMBie343]

Hi SE!
Is it possible to remove all jug pet level caps? Instead let the pet level be my item level, as per /checkparam. Some pets are awesome and fun to use, but we can't use them if they cap at 99 or 113 or some arbitrary level, less than 119.

What do you think? Please

[Karbuncle]

I think Jug caps were okay back when they cared to add a variety of pets you could use endgame, but not that we're basically stuck with a Crab or a Warthog, It'd be nice if they removed the entirety of the restriction and just made Beast Affinity increase the pets Stats or something (Like +2% Acc/Atk/def per merit, kinda like the PUP ones)

[WoW]

The jug cap serves absolutely no purpose, other than hindering the job. merits should help, not hinder.

Jug caps are and never were okay. As it pertains to jug variety, we should not be limited to what pets we can use. Yes, there are a plethora of monsters in vanadiel, but if you guys were not wasting so much time releasing repeats, that the whole jug bestiary could have been full by now :(.

Please consider lifting the cap.

[MakkotoParinne]

As a budding Beastmaster, I agree. With more pets to choose from, people will use many pets for a variety of situations instead of being pidgeonholed into choosing specific ones that cost a lot of gil to buy.

Even if the cheaper jugs become more usable, more people will buy them, so I doubt this change would hurt crafters too much. At the moment, I can't see myself purchasing a stack of Ibuki jugs for 300k, considering all of the drawbacks of Call Beast and pet jobs in general.

Making jugs uncapped will only make Beastmaster more accessible to players and encourage variety of playstyle.

[Mefuki]

The jug cap makes BST very shallow, strategically. All these different monster types and it always just comes down to the highest capped jug. Little consideration for a pet's TP moves or monster correlation.

Please consider lifting the cap.

[WoW]

I agree with everyone's sentiments.

Also, take a look at this list; http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Familiars

55 jugs in all (If I counted correctly); there are about 64 potential jug candidates based upon the bestiary, (I removed nakuuls, cereberus, etc, things that are bosses or quite special/one of a kind); but only 25 species were covered, WHAT...DA...HECK?.................

There is more to beastmaster than than rabbits, mandies, and sheep (But a sheep would be gravy due to the crappy-ness of our recent jugs).

I am inclined to believe that the jug cap is SE's excuse to repeat pets, because if there was no jug cap, releasing 2 sheep, 4 crabs, 4 rabbits and 5 mandies would be senseless. I said it once and I will say it again; SE is extremely lazy as it pertains to bst and its' familiars. Bst affinity is indeed useless, but it is convenient to SE because they can continue to be lazy with our pets.

What specialization? We can't even get varying pet species.........

The cap will never be lifted, but I know why.

Also, they could easily add missing moves to our past jugs when they are introduced in-game or re-release species that have unique moves, but that is not the case. The majority of the repeats have no added moves or moves removed. Lucky was the only re-release that made sense imo due to wild carrot. The 119 mandy actually had a move removed XD (Dream flower: Homunculus).

[Leonardus]

There is more to beastmaster than than rabbits, mandies, and sheep (But a sheep would be gravy due to the crappy-ness of our recent jugs).

That's correct, you forgot about crabs. And crabs with baskets. Basket Crabs. Red Basket Crabs, even.

As for a sheep...ugh, I don't know. They'll give us a Lucerewe that of course will have Dazing Discord removed. If you guys want to play with sheep again, be my guest. I really, do not want to. More surprises like the Tulfaire, SE. Ibuki is cool.

[WoW]

That's correct, you forgot about crabs. And crabs with baskets. Basket Crabs. Red Basket Crabs, even.

As for a sheep...ugh, I don't know. They'll give us a Lucerewe that of course will have Dazing Discord removed. If you guys want to play with sheep again, be my guest. I really, do not want to. More surprises like the Tulfaire, SE. Ibuki is cool.

And given to blu, "Specializations"

But i agree, never considered that dazing will be removed (Oddly enough, considering how they usually remove damaging abilities); more surprises will be welcome. They are still a plethora of species which not not seen the light of day.

We could really use another poll, one with move suggestions as dasva alluded to; I mean, this stuff is not hard.......really....

This mystery jug stuff is crazy annoying, doom and hp based attacks (Throat stab -esque) should be the only moves that are off limits imo. Not sure if dazing is hp based, could be.

Imo, the cap will never be removed because SE would be force to release different species.

[Camate]

Hello,

The development team has no plans to remove the level and status caps for pets, but we will continue to add new pets as we move forward, and we are planning to add new pets in the September version update.

[Glamdring]

Hello,

The development team has no plans to remove the level and status caps for pets, but we will continue to add new pets as we move forward, and we are planning to add new pets in the September version update.

and will these new jugs continue the trend of weaker and weaker jugs relative to the strength of the master and especially relative to the other jobs in the game? It used to be almost impossible to pull hate off a pet, and ready abilities did great damage-to the point we were considered THE soloing job in FFXI-sometimes erroneously when we would hear "you can solo it"-well not without 50+ attempts, a massive amount of luck and millions spent in consumables, hence why we asked for a party, we even said please. well now it's almost impossible to keep hate on a jug, even with Snarl since 1-2 hits will have the hate back on the master.

The job is the pet, there's even a hint, the name BEASTmaster instead of MASTER of beasts. so why are our pets so pathetic over the last 2 years? and I do mean pathetic. I mean we can't even charm in battlefields anymore and haven't been able to in years, but now our jugs also can't function enough to be worth it. Hint: if beast was in a good state then when asked what job you have for end-game parties and answering "Beast" we wouldn't get the immediate reply "what else have you got?" That's unacceptable. Beast WAS a good job, in fact my favorite job, but sometime around the roll-out of SoA a decision seems to have been made to stop that, and I have no idea why. Sure I can charm again for farming, unfortunately all the desireable drops can only be gained through battlefields where charming is prohibited. That effectively forces beasts to level another job to do end-game content, and if the only way to play end-game content is with another job, then when it comes to beast we really have to ask... "what's the point?"

so given the fact it is my favorite job I'm going to keep upgrading and mothballing my beast gear in the hopes I might find some use for the job after some future update, but in the meantime I'm going to keep upgrading my bard so I can actually participate in end-game. note, I HAVE to play bard to upgrade the better beast gear, something is terribly wrong with that situation...

[Malthar]

Hello,

The development team has no plans to remove the level and status caps for pets, but we will continue to add new pets as we move forward, and we are planning to add new pets in the September version update.

Camate, much love to you, and please understand that my ire is solely for the devs.

I have one question for them; why? We are not children. We deserve a better response than a dismissal, as a parent would dismiss a child out of hand.

Removing the level and status caps for pets is a fantastic idea and would revive the versatility of beastmaster. Why would the devs dismiss this idea out of hand without the simplest explanation more than "because I said so"?

[Olor]

I want jug caps removed but DO NOT want pets to be based on "checkparam item level" as that forces us to use 119 gear even when other gear is better. Also it just overall gimps us. I want pet level to be the same as the main hand weapon with "beast affinity" ADDING levels over that, and YES all jugs uncapped thanks.

[WoW]

The jug cap makes absolutely no sense and promotes repeats,; because older pets are pushed aside. Sort of like telling a smn a said avatar is null-void, then proceed to give em inferior pets. Imo, the cap should be lifted, because SE does a poor job of updating our pets. Not to mention the move removal. If we received several solid pets in their native form, ppl may not push for a cap lift. However, we see these new sub-par pets and look back at our old guys like "Wait a minute; how did we go from a sheep with zerk to a boar with 2 moves.....?"

If bst are truly beast-Masters, we should have every animal readily available for use. I understand that a cap lift would equate to changes in merits and gear, however, these changes could be quite simple.

Imo, if there are no plans to lift the cap, we need our pets be stay current; with each family available. Also, that move removal must stop.

Personally, I wish SE would release new monsters in their monstrosity form. Crabs suck, right guys/gals? Not quite....http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Porter_Crab_%28MON%29. These are playable pets, thus implementable, so that excuse is out the window. If one of our crabs had the abilities of the porter crab, whom is in-game, thus implementable, because he is playable by players and non-broken,, there goes one pet whom is vastly superior to any of our current guys. Rabbits are decent, but nothing special. I bashed these guys on numerous occasions, however we actually have access to a superb rabbit in-game guys/gals^^ http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Lapinion_%28MON%29. Why are those abilities on some side-content and not on our jugs?

SE, please use monstrosity as a reference for the new pets.

[ZoMBie343]

Hello,

The development team has no plans to remove the level and status caps for pets, but we will continue to add new pets as we move forward, and we are planning to add new pets in the September version update.


This makes me so sad. It took 6+ months after the introduction of Delve for Beastmasters to get stronger pets and pet food....and it does nothing to get us invited into Delve content. Beastmaster pets are always too weak at the introduction of new content. Please reconsider. :(

[Mitruya]

and will these new jugs continue the trend of weaker and weaker jugs relative to the strength of the master and especially relative to the other jobs in the game? It used to be almost impossible to pull hate off a pet, and ready abilities did great damage-to the point we were considered THE soloing job in FFXI-sometimes erroneously when we would hear "you can solo it"-well not without 50+ attempts, a massive amount of luck and millions spent in consumables, hence why we asked for a party, we even said please. well now it's almost impossible to keep hate on a jug, even with Snarl since 1-2 hits will have the hate back on the master.

The job is the pet, there's even a hint, the name BEASTmaster instead of MASTER of beasts. so why are our pets so pathetic over the last 2 years? and I do mean pathetic. I mean we can't even charm in battlefields anymore and haven't been able to in years, but now our jugs also can't function enough to be worth it. Hint: if beast was in a good state then when asked what job you have for end-game parties and answering "Beast" we wouldn't get the immediate reply "what else have you got?" That's unacceptable. Beast WAS a good job, in fact my favorite job, but sometime around the roll-out of SoA a decision seems to have been made to stop that, and I have no idea why. Sure I can charm again for farming, unfortunately all the desireable drops can only be gained through battlefields where charming is prohibited. That effectively forces beasts to level another job to do end-game content, and if the only way to play end-game content is with another job, then when it comes to beast we really have to ask... "what's the point?"

so given the fact it is my favorite job I'm going to keep upgrading and mothballing my beast gear in the hopes I might find some use for the job after some future update, but in the meantime I'm going to keep upgrading my bard so I can actually participate in end-game. note, I HAVE to play bard to upgrade the better beast gear, something is terribly wrong with that situation...

This, so much. The biggest reason I quit playing BST was because of the "go solo it yourself" mentality (in addition to the "buy a PC and dual-box it" mentality). The same might be said for PUP, but I had gotten frustrated with the constant cost of jugs/food for very little purpose, and when pet TH was nerfed there really isn't much I can do on BST that PUP can't do as well.
But this whole play a job you don't enjoy to gear a job (or jobs) that doesn't get invites is incredibly lame.
I do some RoE, tend my Garden, then what? Watch shouts (which are few and far between) for the same jobs over and over. I find myself playing less and less, really only holding out for Monstrosity updates at this point.

[Tohihroyu]

Hello,

The development team has no plans to remove the level and status caps for pets, but we will continue to add new pets as we move forward, and we are planning to add new pets in the September version update.

Grrrreaaat, more expensive as hell jugpets, I'm not paying 300k or more for a stack (let alone single!) guess I have to level synergy on my cooking alt >_> or just dig out the old charm set...blegh. -_- (I'm starting to like summoner more anyway...so....)

--

The only "real job" I have at 99 is my Monk but it dose not have a 119 weapon so it's "useless" even with a black belt that I worked hard for with ls -_- And I leveled Monk cause I like the job, not just to be "useful in events" hell I avoid endgame 99% of the time unless its with LS to avoid the bull-crap with elitists.

Its like... someone asks you "What jobs u have?" and you say "Apoc 119 drk" "mnk 117" "bst 117" "smn 119" "drg 117" and they say ether "hm bring mnk" when my drk is pretty much hundred slashes! but noooo drk is not a "real end game job" and that summoners BP buffs are still meh or underdated or "No 4 song brd? srry can't go." And even IF you level bard you HAVE to get the R/E or you are going to be left out, and some people do not have the time to "lol solo it" for two instruments.

[Rwolf]

I think removing the level cap of all the NM name jug pets Level 50+ is a good idea. The level the jug is equipped can be used to determine a lot more things than just level of the pet. It could still determine which TP moves, Job, and traits that jug pet has access to.

While it would be some work to rework the current pets to make them more distinct. Removing the cap would be ultimately in not just the player's favor, but also the development team as well. They would not have to recreate the same pets over and over again. They could express their creativity more like they've done enjoying making Trusts and Monstrosity be so diverse and unique. I would love for Beastmaster to get that type of attention to their pets.

We need a variety of pets in the same beast category that operate differently and all have their strengths and flaws. This would allow us to play up our strength as Beastmaster, knowing what all enemies are strong and weak to. It's also something no other job brings to the table. When I keep hearing Monstrosity related in regard to Beastmaster changes, that trend translates to me that a lot of players crave more variety in pet species, more selection in TP moves and habits, and more jobs and traits. Basically more reason to bring a Beastmaster and strategy into the table once again.

A White Mage Leafkin whose healing TP moves are more potent than other jugs, a Black Mage Wamoura who has high elemental damage TP moves, a Dark Knight Leech that has high attack power and lower defense. All types of examples could be had and I know the development team is creative enough just looking at Trusts and how they are rebalanced when certain ones aren't used. I just wish that excitement and energy to create and rebalance was spread to pet jobs as well.

[WoW]

I think removing the level cap of all the NM name jug pets Level 50+ is a good idea. The level the jug is equipped can be used to determine a lot more things than just level of the pet. It could still determine which TP moves, Job, and traits that jug pet has access to.

While it would be some work to rework the current pets to make them more distinct. Removing the cap would be ultimately in not just the player's favor, but also the development team as well. They would not have to recreate the same pets over and over again. They could express their creativity more like they've done enjoying making Trusts and Monstrosity be so diverse and unique. I would love for Beastmaster to get that type of attention to their pets.

We need a variety of pets in the same beast category that operate differently and all have their strengths and flaws. This would allow us to play up our strength as Beastmaster, knowing what all enemies are strong and weak to. It's also something no other job brings to the table. When I keep hearing Monstrosity related in regard to Beastmaster changes, that trend translates to me that a lot of players crave more variety in pet species, more selection in TP moves and habits, and more jobs and traits. Basically more reason to bring a Beastmaster and strategy into the table once again.

A White Mage Leafkin whose healing TP moves are more potent than other jugs, a Black Mage Wamoura who has high elemental damage TP moves, a Dark Knight Leech that has high attack power and lower defense. All types of examples could be had and I know the development team is creative enough just looking at Trusts and how they are rebalanced when certain ones aren't used. I just wish that excitement and energy to create and rebalance was spread to pet jobs as well.

Bingo^^

We do not need any new pets; we have 55 of them XD.

Rwolf, you brought of another interesting point. SE should spread some of their monstrosity creativity to beastmaster. We were here first and monstrosity serves no real purpose outside of stomping around on lesser enemies. Moves were removed from our jugs and given to monstrosity/blue mage.

Also, there no information regarding these "New" pets.

[Glamdring]

one would have to think from a programing standpoint it would be easier just to extend the damage tables to the higher levels on existing pets-just copy/paste over starting at the prior end point of the existing pet-than having to write a brand new one from scratch to start at say iLevel 114 for a brand new pet. now, if what they have is instead a mathematical formula where damage is calculated on a geometric or logarithmic scale as the pet gains in level I can see an issue, but the work around is rather simple. using older programming techniques it would be a simple series of "if-then-else" arguments, i.e. if level =55-75 go to line 2250, else go to 2270| line 2270 if level 75-98 go to line 3040, else go to 3060 where the damage formulae are on lines 2250, 3040 or 3060 respectively meaning your geometric or logarithmic progression recommences with a much lower doubling iterations, meaning your lifedrinker lars has not doubled ins strength 70 times from base, merely 20 times from whatever base value is set for damage calculations at 119. I'll grant you my programming skills are VERY rusty (the last language I programmed in was pascal, and that wasn't a legacy system, pascal was actually popular at the time) and it's likely easier to do with more precision using .dll files or other object oriented programming techniques but you get the idea.

[Railer]

Hello,

The development team has no plans to remove the level and status caps for pets, but we will continue to add new pets as we move forward, and we are planning to add new pets in the September version update.
:(:mad::confused:

[Rwolf]

Not to continue to harp on but I just don't understand the need to make new things that do the same thing to cover up and replace old things that don't work any longer. Blue Mage got that response and Beastmaster is getting the same thing now. Eventually this rug everything is being swept under won't work any longer.

No offense meant to the development team's work, but it feels counterproductive and also bland to just keep adding similar things every few item levels. We already have a bunch of crabs, rarabs, tigers, mandragora, etc. We have more than enough Warrior pets, with some minors in Thief, Monk and Paladin.

Monstrosity and Trust are testaments that the Development Team is creative and enjoys creating variety. I just don't understand why that doesn't translate to jobs. Maybe the teams responsible for those two needs to have a sit down with the Battle Team because if we get another plain crab jug with the same TP moves, just higher item level cap in September... /sigh

[ZoMBie343]

Hello,

The development team has no plans to remove the level and status caps for pets, but we will continue to add new pets as we move forward, and we are planning to add new pets in the September version update.


I sincerely hope that you reconsider? In the last year, Beastmaster's received a number of enhancements MONTHS apart. ..Now, we have to wait for new pets again in September. I'm sorry but these changes just are not worth the wait. Our jug pets get invalidated too frequently. Please consider revising the formula for pet stats and levels.

[WoW]

Not to continue to harp on but I just don't understand the need to make new things that do the same thing to cover up and replace old things that don't work any longer. Blue Mage got that response and Beastmaster is getting the same thing now. Eventually this rug everything is being swept under won't work any longer.

No offense meant to the development team's work, but it feels counterproductive and also bland to just keep adding similar things every few item levels. We already have a bunch of crabs, rarabs, tigers, mandragora, etc. We have more than enough Warrior pets, with some minors in Thief, Monk and Paladin.

Monstrosity and Trust are testaments that the Development Team is creative and enjoys creating variety. I just don't understand why that doesn't translate to jobs. Maybe the teams responsible for those two needs to have a sit down with the Battle Team because if we get another plain crab jug with the same TP moves, just higher item level cap in September... /sigh

Until they fix it, no harm, no foul, it is perfectly acceptable to harp on/point out this flawed concept. Bst threads from years ago brought up the same issues and yet, here we are again.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/9931-An-in-depth-look-at-Jug-selection.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12293-Bst-Job-adjustment-manifesto-concerns-and-questions. This had me rolling "We plan to broaden the range of monsters that beastmasters can coax into becoming their pets" LMAO!!! And then "Adding more pet-specific abilities". To Blu? perhaps monstrosity?

This also clears up a lot of confusion regarding bst; basically, an Apkallu would be too "Overpowered" with frigid shuffle and yawn, hence do not expect much from the new guys folks http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/17079-dev1042-Level-Cap-Increase-%28BST-Related%29?p=229948&viewfull=1#post229948. If that is their definition of overpowered........it cleared up alot...really.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/34273-We-need-new-Jug-pets-for-seekers.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/36907-Why-are-bst-pets-getting-shafted

[Balloon]

I'm not a beastmaster, but that is the most agitating response Square Enix throws at everything. Oh that'd be so overpowered, you know, you don't want to overpower a job that, for 10+ years, has solo'd.

This is not a game of balance, Square, there are jobs that are BETTER AT EVERYTHING than other jobs. And furthermore, this isn't a game for hybrid jobs. They serve no purpose.

I love puppetmaster, and I think it's probably the poorest job in the game at the minute, but you know what? at least their "Hybrid job" crap makes sense for them. Beastmaster does nothing but DD, yeah, they have a pet, but their pet in a party environment is to enhance their ability to DD.

So after being at the bottom of the rung for the duration of their careers, screw you Square Enix. I'm going to be unreasonable, make us the best, because most other jobs have had their time up there.

It's hard to get mad at Camate, though, or any of the people responding to these issues. I'm not entirely convinced our feedback gets through. Go through with google translate and have a look at how many of their responses are just a day late version of their japanese counterparts.

I mean for gods sake, Yawn?! YAWN IS OVERPOWERED NOW? The amount of steps necessary to make Yawn useful in any situation is staggering. 1) Make sure that the monster is facing your pet, and won't turn or move 2) Ready Yawn 3) Make sure that after yawn is used, that the monster doesn't sneak in an attack round.
vs - Cast Sleepga. Cast Yawn. Cast Lullaby. Use Light Shot. Cast Repose.

[ZoMBie343]

I would rather go back to charming mobs and not being able to choose pet moves (Sic) ...because I knew my Pet was always EVEN MATCH (or higher if used Familiar).

Come on, SE! Don't make us wait every few months for new pets! Remove the cap, please!

[WoW]

I would rather go back to charming mobs and not being able to choose pet moves (Sic) ...because I knew my Pet was always EVEN MATCH (or higher if used Familiar).

Come on, SE! Don't make us wait every few months for new pets! Remove the cap, please!

At least we knew they would use their native abilities; charm is looking reaaaal good right about now......

[Mitruya]

I'm not a beastmaster, but that is the most agitating response Square Enix throws at everything. Oh that'd be so overpowered, you know, you don't want to overpower a job that, for 10+ years, has solo'd.

This is not a game of balance, Square, there are jobs that are BETTER AT EVERYTHING than other jobs. And furthermore, this isn't a game for hybrid jobs. They serve no purpose.

I love puppetmaster, and I think it's probably the poorest job in the game at the minute, but you know what? at least their "Hybrid job" crap makes sense for them. Beastmaster does nothing but DD, yeah, they have a pet, but their pet in a party environment is to enhance their ability to DD.

So after being at the bottom of the rung for the duration of their careers, screw you Square Enix. I'm going to be unreasonable, make us the best, because most other jobs have had their time up there.

It's hard to get mad at Camate, though, or any of the people responding to these issues. I'm not entirely convinced our feedback gets through. Go through with google translate and have a look at how many of their responses are just a day late version of their japanese counterparts.

I mean for gods sake, Yawn?! YAWN IS OVERPOWERED NOW? The amount of steps necessary to make Yawn useful in any situation is staggering. 1) Make sure that the monster is facing your pet, and won't turn or move 2) Ready Yawn 3) Make sure that after yawn is used, that the monster doesn't sneak in an attack round.
vs - Cast Sleepga. Cast Yawn. Cast Lullaby. Use Light Shot. Cast Repose.

Yep. I'd like to hear SE argue that SAM RNG and MNK are not overpowered. I'd really like them to explain why NO OTHER JOB can be allowed into endgame. Why DRGs can't keep up, why SMN avatars are so mediocre, why BLUs and DNCs can't help support, etc etc.....

[WoW]

SE's track record shows that they have no issue completely abandoning concepts; imo, the line about pets jobs (bst) being stronger than standard dds will not be fulfilled. I truly hope this is not the case, but, here are my bold predictions regarding bst from now til Sept update.

1) The new pets will suck; based upon SE's past jug implementations.
2) Beneficial/powerful moves will be removed.
3) The ready move boost will not change much because the moves given to the pets will be weak.
4) There will be bst rage
5) And this endless cycle will repeat itself (Going on 12 years atm).

[Balloon]

Pet jobs aren't going to happen. The response I just got from Camate on another thread has shredded all hope for me, pack up your jug pets, donn your sheeps armour to a mannequin and remember wistfully the days when hope was alive.

Or, something less dramatic.

I just can't see it getting better.

[Balloon]

Yep. I'd like to hear SE argue that SAM RNG and MNK are not overpowered. I'd really like them to explain why NO OTHER JOB can be allowed into endgame. Why DRGs can't keep up, why SMN avatars are so mediocre, why BLUs and DNCs can't help support, etc etc.....

But those jobs have utility, unlike RNGs ability to deal high damage, low enmity dps out of the range of AoE and allow a tank to keep hate. I go to COR for a low of RNG things, I perform admirably at about 20-25% parse, the top ranger can do anything between 30-55% of the damage. Guess who pulls hate.

But yeah, RNG ain't broken. Keep introducing content with lots of AoE that'll instantly kill most DPS.

I'm sure it'll get better if you ignore it.


SE solution to fixing things has always been to add more items, ilvl animators, satchels, pet food. There's never a change to the fundamentals of the job, but instead a dumb attempt to patch over issues with items. A geo is respectable..... ..... ... With a mythic. A puppetmaster can be a good dd.... with a mythic. Pets can hit sometimes...... with pet food and ilvl animators.

Try to fix the problem first, Square, instead of adding stop gaps.

[WoW]

Personally, I am only interested in

1) The cap being lifted
2) Jugs that are in their native or monstrosity form as it pertains to abilities
3) Stat boost
Any announcement that does not allude to those three things are pointless. Nobody cares about the new pets when there is no information regarding them, hence this is our interpretation......

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121217110419/finalfantasy/images/4/4b/Crab_1_%28FFXI%29.png

Ready Moves:
Bubble Shower - Deals water damage to enemies with in area of effect. additional effect STR down. (1 Charge)
Bubble Curtain - Enhances pets Magic Defense. (3 Charges)
Big Scissors - Deals physical damage. (1 Charge)
Scissor Guard - Enhances Pet's Defense. (2 Charges)
Metallic Body - Gives the effect of Stoneskin. (1 Charge

[dasva]

Hello,

The development team has no plans to remove the level and status caps for pets, but we will continue to add new pets as we move forward, and we are planning to add new pets in the September version update.

You mean to say you will continue to add pets after outdating the previous ones and only add 2-3 at a time and they will continually inferior to previous models because there is no need to make them good if the others have reached their cap meanwhile all other pet jobs immediately get all their pets to full level and will keep all their awesome moves and such. Oh I forgot spending tons of extra gil on new jugs that will again use new semi rarish ingredients. Might as well just say we want to keep bst pets as nothing more than things to snarl and take some dmg before dieing while spending tons of gil

[WoW]

Also, I recall someone on bg mentioning a pup/bst pet tp update in August, as it pertains to special moves. I am expecting "meh"

[Balloon]

They're gonna buff tp moves in line with how players has. Actually hopeful for that. From a pup perspective, maybe magic mortar won't suck!

[WoW]

They're gonna buff tp moves in line with how players has. Actually hopeful for that. From a pup perspective, maybe magic mortar won't suck!

Hmmm, I am not understanding this, modifiers?

Sorry, this was news to me as-well, just repeating what I heard.

[Balloon]

It was an overhaul to a lot of things, it buffed up lower weaponskills to be competitive (albeit not really equal) to their higher level components.

Magical Weaponskills got an ilvl adjustment, physical and magical got both a modifier increase (sometimes has high as 30% -> 100%) and ftp modifications.

It also completely removed the alpha (0.85) modifier from the equation.

I have no idea how they'll implement this for beastmaster, though, unless we see an equal increase in Monster Weaponskill damage.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/42588-dev1216-Weapon-Skill-Adjustments

[Tohihroyu]

You mean to say you will continue to add pets after outdating the previous ones and only add 2-3 at a time and they will continually inferior to previous models because there is no need to make them good if the others have reached there meanwhile all other pet jobs immediately get all their pets to full level and will keep all their awesome moves and such. Oh I forgot spending tons of extra gil on new jugs that will again use new semi rarish ingredients. Might as well just say we want to keep bst pets as nothing more than things to snarl and take some dmg before dieing while spending tons of gil

Just like with gear/weapons every update except its way less often.

I was hoping for Necromancer in future updates...but at this rate it would never happen cause undead pets would be "overpowered" /sigh

If the mats for the jugs where not so rare (or eletists din't jack up ah prices) i'd be kind of looking forward to new jugs...but the pets i'm hoping for would never happen cause "overpowered" and only rng, mnk, whm & brd exist, the rest is just cosmetic with use for fighting almost the same things they do.

Pets I hope for but will never happen? Scorpion, Manticore, Dhalmel, Cockatrice, updated Beetle (great tank pets back in the day...and a fix to their broken foot?), updated Apkallu, Ruzor, Roc, Bats (Giant & Trio), Colibri, Snapweed, Updated Sheep, Ram, and updated Sabotender. There's more but those are ones off the top of my head.

[Balloon]

Just like with gear/weapons every update except its way less often.

I was hoping for Necromancer in future updates...but at this rate it would never happen cause undead pets would be "overpowered" /sigh

If the mats for the jugs where not so rare (or eletists din't jack up ah prices) i'd be kind of looking forward to new jugs...but the pets i'm hoping for would never happen cause "overpowered" and only rng, mnk, whm & brd exist, the rest is just cosmetic with use for fighting almost the same things they do.

Pets I hope for but will never happen? Scorpion, Manticore, Dhalmel, Cockatrice, updated Beetle (great tank pets back in the day...and a fix to their broken foot?), updated Apkallu, Ruzor, Roc, Bats (Giant & Trio), Colibri, Snapweed, Updated Sheep, Ram, and updated Sabotender. There's more but those are ones off the top of my head.

Necromancer was already discussed at the start of ToAU, it became puppetmaster, hence why you see a lot of mage gear being on PUP. Their justification for this was always pretty dumb, they didn't want to nerf the pet during the day.

[Balloon]

Something else that really has been bugging me is that they gave 2 Automaton trusts but giving beast a dragon pet would be too far into dragoon territory. The freaking trust automatons have better WS than our automatons! FRUSTRATING.

[WoW]

Something else that really has been bugging me is that they gave 2 Automaton trusts but giving beast a dragon pet would be too far into dragoon territory. The freaking trust automatons have better WS than our automatons! FRUSTRATING.

I know right? LMAO. Their explanation was extremely contradicting, "Specializations," sort of like beast specializing in monsters; using beast abilities to defeat our foes but blu can also use bst ready moves/abilities? Like how ninja specialized in dual wield? Until dnc and thf got a hold of that trait? How about hand-to-hand? Mnks and pups both use that. Guns? Bows? Daggers? offensive magic? Aoe magic? Curing? magic damage taken? Automoton trust npcs, really? While pup needs a buff you have the nerve to do something like that?

ppl in this thread appear to want drg to be enhanced through master JAs http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/42965-Dragoon-s-Future-as-DD/page4. Dragoons are two handed dd, while we are one. Drgs understand the concept of the job, they are not a true pet job, hence they want enchantments through the master with the addition of pet survivability. SE is putting words in dragoons mouth; turning the sheep against the sheep, If they released this today http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Naul, drgs would not give two craps imo. There is no way a dragoon could use this....lmao. These are more beast oriented pets. The monsters of vanadiel are completely different than a domesticated wyverns.

Allow me to explain, bst pets have strong special attacks (Nauls), while drg wyverns have weaker attacks, bst pets have a large hp pool (Naul), while drg pets do not, and finally, a dragon is already charamble, hence it is possible to add any of these guys http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Dragons, http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Puks, http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Naul. If drgs were never meant to be pets/only monsters within the original bst ecosystem, then a dragon would not be charmable. We can use dragon pets, plain and simple. No matter how SE tries to spin it, I can charm a dragon, so it is very possible. Also, a drg's wyvern ws when the master does (iirc), could you imagine a dragon breathe attack from a Naul every few seconds? Bst is restricted to a ready meter. SE has no intentions on giving drgs a Naul, puk, or a shadow dragon and they know it. No disrespect, but that is just foul. To dangle something like that out there with no logical explanation. They know good and well that a drg wyverns and a wild naul, puk, and shadow dragon function completely different, in terms of game mechanics.

I do not recall any bst crying and throwing a tantrum when blu got killer traits or those killer traits on gear. I mean, look at blu, they have more native monster abilities than our jugs and we specialize in using monster abilities as-well (First in XI may I add). I reference this every now and then, but it is not a big deal that we overlap. It is not a big deal that we specialize in axes, but wars are better at it. And yes, i am not done with that dragon pet stuff, just not going to continue it in this thread. Gonna keep it going until they come out and say we just don't want to add dragons or give a logical explanation (Hint, there isn't one :)).

Edit: No idea where that smiley face in the third paragraph came from XD, lol.

[Rwolf]

The lore for Puks when they were added in Aht Urhgan was that they were one of many types of chimera (dragon and some sort of vermin). I always took it as that's the only reason Beastmaster can charm them is because they are part Vermin. It would be in SE's best interest just to re-categorize them under Vermin and end the dispute/potential for Puk jugs. It makes me wonder though if Killer Instinct works with a charmed Puk.

Full blooded dragons in my opinion do stray too much into Dragoon territory. It was always denoted in the lore of the game that Undead, Dragons, Arcana, & Demons were in a class of their own of being more sentient, hence why they could not be easily tamed. Each of them already have their respective "knights". I personally like Beastmaster just fine as being a "knight" of the 7 common creature types. I just wish Monster Correlation and individual pet identity was more applicable, among other things like just raw damage/utility increase.

[Leonardus]

Something else that really has been bugging me is that they gave 2 Automaton trusts but giving beast a dragon pet would be too far into dragoon territory. The freaking trust automatons have better WS than our automatons! FRUSTRATING.

I guess you can't really "trust" SE's standards, you know?

Next Trust update: Achtelle and...Bravo.

...

[WoW]

The lore for Puks when they were added in Aht Urhgan was that they were one of many types of chimera (dragon and some sort of vermin). I always took it as that's the only reason Beastmaster can charm them is because they are part Vermin. It would be in SE's best interest just to re-categorize them under Vermin and end the dispute/potential for Puk jugs. It makes me wonder though if Killer Instinct works with a charmed Puk.

Full blooded dragons in my opinion do stray too much into Dragoon territory. It was always denoted in the lore of the game that Undead, Dragons, Arcana, & Demons were in a class of their own of being more sentient, hence why they could not be easily tamed. Each of them already have their respective "knights". I personally like Beastmaster just fine as being a "knight" of the 7 common creature types. I just wish Monster Correlation and individual pet identity was more applicable, among other things like just raw damage/utility increase.

How do you feel about blu and bst overlapping as it pertains to monster abilities? How about bst killer intimidation effects on gear? Dragons do not tame wyrms, puks, and dragons in XI. Bahamut is also described as the wyrm king, but has nothing to do with dragoons, nor do shadow dragons. Wyrms are thought to be bahamut's servants, not drgs. Also, puks are called wind wyverns, which is why they are classified as dragons. Iirc, these were categorized as beast at one point http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Monoceros. They are described as beast. Chimera are described as a beast/reptilian hybrid, but are part of the arcana family, not beast or lizard/dragon. Chimera are hybrids as-well (But not charmable nor part of the bst bestiary). However, you brought up a great point, chimera are hybrid beast, part lion, snake, and goat; all are fair game in the bst bestiary. We should be able to charm Khimaira because they are part beast and reptile^^

Drg should not give two craps about a naul or a shadow dragon being a pet, because drg will never tame a naul or shadow dragon; drg game mechanics will not allow it. Dragon breathe every few seconds after a ws ftw?

[WoW]

I guess you can't really "trust" SE's standards, you know?

Next Trust update: Achtelle and...Bravo.

...

Or the mandy and her plantoid companions, while plantoids are "Sentimental" to bst. I am pretty sure automotons were sentimental to pups.

Nice word play on trust also, lol.

[Rwolf]

I agree with you that Puks and Khimaira should be in Beastmaster's domain, as they have "beast" components, I just don't agree with you on Wyrms, Dragons, and Wyverns.

Beastmaster has a ton of potential pets left untapped, including a lot of powerful great beast types. I don't see the push in getting SE who already has a rigid stance on lore and fighting to get pet issues fixed, just to give Beastmaster a wyrm pet.


Saying BLU and BST overlap, is like saying how do I feel about WHM RDM SCH PLD RUN overlap in White Magic and BLM RDM SCH GEO DRK overlap in Black Magic. Or how I feel about Ninja getting Max HP Boost when it was a Monk trait. That list goes on forever, there are shared abilities, effects and traits. However those things have nothing to do with lore.


Killer effects on weapons and armor are no different than any other shared thing. If you want to get technical. You can say the same thing for Double Attack, Triple Attack, Magic Attack Bonus, Magic Defense Bonus, list goes on and on.


Kindred are Demons. Demons are predatory to dragons. So a demon Beastmaster having a dragon pet makes a lot of sense because it is unique to their species not the job.


Bahamut counter-argument makes no sense. The only interaction we have with Bahamut is CoP-related which the story has nothing to do with Dragoons. By that logic it doesn't make sense for a Dragoon whose lore is to hunt wyrms and dragons to subjugate one. But somehow it makes perfect sense that a humanoid Beastmaster with no lore whatsoever around dragons can...


Yes puks are part dragon, just like they are part vermin. Not sure how you're trying to correct me when I said they were a chimera (hybrid) of both.
I don't understand the Monoceros part in regard to advocating wyrm pets for Beastmaster.


Khimaira (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Khimaira) are part beast/reptile/whatever else, as no one completely knows and are a chimera (different spelling). The general definition of a chimera is a definition of any species comprised as a hybrid of more than one species. In FFXI, Lamiae and Puks are other chimeras.

[Balloon]

I'm actually going to go out on a limb and say I don't think Dragons should be part of Beastmasters aresenal, but I do think other things, like Monoceros, Puks etc should be.

I have more of an issue with their excuses as to why not, when they're releasing Beast and Automaton trusts. It strikes me as hypocritical.

I also fully advocate the removal of a cap of beastmaster pets. Beast Affinity should give an amount of attack,acc and defense % and pets should be on equal footing.

But they don't know what to do with crafts. When they release 120 crafting level what do you think cooking will be skilling up on? Probably in part jugpets. It means they can release stuff for beastmaster that doesn't require thought and pawn it off as if they're actually working on things. Why fix something that makes it look like you're working.

I wouldn't be annoyed if Beastmasters got a dragon though. I just don't think it's strictly necessary. There's a lot left to tap into, my problem is they keep tapping into sheeps and crabs.

[Mitruya]

I was annoyed with the idea of the automaton Trusts at first. But now I like to run around with both of them on PUP, so I have 3 pets! (sort of) You can't control them and the RDM one doesn't cure you, so eh .... I don't think players with these Trusts are suddenly replacing Puppetmasters.
I would totally go for Achtelle and Bravo as Trusts. I doubt the wyrm would heal you, and since most Trusts are pretty weak, this wouldn't replace DRGs either.

[Balloon]

Don't get me wrong, when I was gonna quit I wanted to log out with all 3 automaton out and pretend that SE let us summon all 3 and just be in a state of nirvana.

I missed the event by taking a break during it.

dumb dumb.

[WoW]

I agree with you that Puks and Khimaira should be in Beastmaster's domain, as they have "beast" components, I just don't agree with you on Wyrms, Dragons, and Wyverns.

Beastmaster has a ton of potential pets left untapped, including a lot of powerful great beast types. I don't see the push in getting SE who already has a rigid stance on lore and fighting to get pet issues fixed, just to give Beastmaster a wyrm pet.


Saying BLU and BST overlap, is like saying how do I feel about WHM RDM SCH PLD RUN overlap in White Magic and BLM RDM SCH GEO DRK overlap in Black Magic. Or how I feel about Ninja getting Max HP Boost when it was a Monk trait. That list goes on forever, there are shared abilities, effects and traits. However those things have nothing to do with lore.


Killer effects on weapons and armor are no different than any other shared thing. If you want to get technical. You can say the same thing for Double Attack, Triple Attack, Magic Attack Bonus, Magic Defense Bonus, list goes on and on.


Kindred are Demons. Demons are predatory to dragons. So a demon Beastmaster having a dragon pet makes a lot of sense because it is unique to their species not the job.


Bahamut counter-argument makes no sense. The only interaction we have with Bahamut is CoP-related which the story has nothing to do with Dragoons. By that logic it doesn't make sense for a Dragoon whose lore is to hunt wyrms and dragons to subjugate one. But somehow it makes perfect sense that a humanoid Beastmaster with no lore whatsoever around dragons can...


Yes puks are part dragon, just like they are part vermin. Not sure how you're trying to correct me when I said they were a chimera (hybrid) of both.
I don't understand the Monoceros part in regard to advocating wyrm pets for Beastmaster.


Khimaira (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Khimaira) are part beast/reptile/whatever else, as no one completely knows and are a chimera (different spelling). The general definition of a chimera is a definition of any species comprised as a hybrid of more than one species. In FFXI, Lamiae and Puks are other chimeras.


Lore? As in those circle abilities you can get by subbing the "Knights" at lvl 5?

You made my point for me, drgs have nothing to do with every dragon (bahamut), only wyverns.

Your argument is contradicting; the thought of "no" dragon pets is contradictory because we can tame one, lol. Puks are not vermin, they count towards dragon kills. Puks are classified as dragons. The vermin argument is senseless because they are dragons.

Read this http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/1697-What-new-Jug-Pets-would-you-like-to-see-91-99?p=191859&viewfull=1#post191859. The four sky bosses are a possibility, one of them is a wyvern. SE was going to allow us summon similar pets. If SE alluded to a the possibility, but yet, backpeddled, it is contradictory and I don't see how ppl can argue against it when SE alluded to allowing us summon a Adamantoise (Surfaced), Roc, Wyvern, and Tiger.

So, we can charm a dragon, SE alluded to allowing us call forth a seiryu -esque pet, and automotons are usable by anyone, but yet, ppl are screaming no to bst pet dragons.

Lore; beast are masters of the natural world, so saying our killer effects are not lore related is akin to saying dragoon's lore (you alluded) to is null-void, no? You discussed the "knights" bst having the 7 ecosystems while drg, plds,and drks having sentimental ties to dragons, undead, and arcana, but yet, it is ok for bst to tame a khimaira whom are Arcana. So essentially, anything that is not "drg territory' is off limits. The only lore drg have toward dragons in XI is dragon killers. Lets not act like drgs were taming wyrms and shadow dragons.

Also, i know chimera are hybrid, that is what i alluded to in my previous post when you were discussing hybrid (Puk).

Bottomline is this, beast can tame a dragon; idc if he is part vermin, behemoth, Black, Japanese, Korean, Blasian, taru, galka, pitbull, etc, they are classified as dragons and bst can charm them. Killer effects aside, we can charm them, which is not always the case as it pertains to being predatory.

[WoW]

I'm actually going to go out on a limb and say I don't think Dragons should be part of Beastmasters aresenal, but I do think other things, like Monoceros, Puks etc should be.

I have more of an issue with their excuses as to why not, when they're releasing Beast and Automaton trusts. It strikes me as hypocritical.

I also fully advocate the removal of a cap of beastmaster pets. Beast Affinity should give an amount of attack,acc and defense % and pets should be on equal footing.

But they don't know what to do with crafts. When they release 120 crafting level what do you think cooking will be skilling up on? Probably in part jugpets. It means they can release stuff for beastmaster that doesn't require thought and pawn it off as if they're actually working on things. Why fix something that makes it look like you're working.

I wouldn't be annoyed if Beastmasters got a dragon though. I just don't think it's strictly necessary. There's a lot left to tap into, my problem is they keep tapping into sheeps and crabs.

I can dig this^^

However, as I alluded to, SE were discussing the four sky guardians and behemoths as possible pets; one of the guardians of sky is a wyvern, but yet, they back-peddled.

Personally, i would like a behemoth, however, for them to allude to a implementable wyvern (Seiryu -esque) then backpeddle bugs me. I am willing to drop the subject (In this thread), but some ppl are acting like this is forbidden grounds when SE alluded to it themselves "SMH"

It is a contradiction. I can use an automaton on bst, specialize that SE.

[Mitruya]

The automaton Trusts are nothing like using the real thing. Having them doesn't make someone a PUP.
That thread you referenced mentions the sky gods as special summons like Odin/Alexander. I had totally forgot about that but hey we all remember the pet-TH fiasco and of course the scorpion didn't win and yada yada. And now the turtle is a regular jug? Yeah I don't get it either.

[WoW]

The automaton Trusts are nothing like using the real thing. Having them doesn't make someone a PUP.
That thread you referenced mentions the sky gods as special summons like Odin/Alexander. I had totally forgot about that but hey we all remember the pet-TH fiasco and of course the scorpion didn't win and yada yada. And now the turtle is a regular jug? Yeah I don't get it either.

That is what I am saying regarding dragon jugs; Nauls and shadow dragons function nothing like a dragoon's wyvern. We are still missing a lance and healing breathes, hence are not drgs. however, some argued for the sentimental aspect of a dragon, regardless of the efficacy/function.

but, i don't want to make this thread about dragon jugs, this is Zombie's thread pertaining to pet lvl cap, so i will chill out.

[Mitruya]

^^ Hence I tried to move my discussion back over to the other thread. My apologies for the derailment.

[WoW]

Its cool, i do understand where you are coming from. honestly, dragons are the very least of bst problems. Knowing SE, we will receive a wyrm with only hurricane wing "Shrugs"

As Balloon stated, they are great pets out there (Some of which we have) that are either not in native form or unreleased.

[Rwolf]

Using a support job has nothing to do with lore and storyline. Puks are part dragon, part vermin. Go read the official description of the species from SE. It's classified as dragon because the system doesn't allow for both and SE chose to throw it under Dragons. Hence why I said SE needs to just change it to their vermin side so people will stop complaining BST can charm dragons. Because it's not a true dragon, it is part beast. I'm not repeating that any more and SE said no because of lore. If you want to ignore the lore officially written by SE and think the game's lore is based on job abilities and support jobs, knock yourself out.

Your posts are all over the place and really this is stemming from you personally not liking someone disagreeing with your concept of the game. Same as the other thread arguing BST pets are inexpensive because you've maxed Cooking. The real bottom line is you voice an opinion, you don't like when someone disagrees with your opinion and beat it to death with a wall of text that isn't really a counterpoint and get all wound up.

End of me participating in derailing a thread that's supposed to be focused on jug pet caps and pet levels. I agree and support SE's response on lore and explained why, and you are free to disagree.

[WoW]

Using a support job has nothing to do with lore and storyline. Puks are part dragon, part vermin. Go read the official description of the species from SE. It's classified as dragon because the system doesn't allow for both and SE chose to throw it under Dragons. Hence why I said SE needs to just change it to their vermin side so people will stop complaining BST can charm dragons. Because it's not a true dragon, it is part beast. I'm not repeating that any more and SE said no because of lore. If you want to ignore the lore officially written by SE and think the game's lore is based on job abilities and support jobs, knock yourself out.

Your posts are all over the place and really this is stemming from you personally not liking someone disagreeing with your concept of the game. Same as the other thread arguing BST pets are inexpensive because you've maxed Cooking. The real bottom line is you voice an opinion, you don't like when someone disagrees with your opinion and beat it to death with a wall of text that isn't really a counterpoint and get all wound up.

End of me participating in derailing a thread that's supposed to be focused on jug pet caps and pet levels. I agree and support SE's response on lore and explained why, and you are free to disagree.

SE alluded to adding a wyvern pet, but you completely glossed over that XD.

But keep ranting; puks are dragons, bottomline. If SE changed them to vermin that will just pile on to the contradicting because puks have dragon traits and count as dragon kills in ToM.

You can create all the lore you want (You never clarified lore btw, only "knights" Also, bst knight being a knight? whaaaa?), but fact, puks are dragons, get over it brah^^

You are also getting extremely confrontational and personal, this is personal because you are bringing up old threads I posted in, cooking? Really?

Balloon disagreed with me, but I respectably told him I can get with that http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/43326-Remove-jug-pet-caps-altogether!-Pet-Level-checkparam-item-level?p=516796&viewfull=1#post516796. I agree, we still have monsters that are yet to see the light of day.

No clue what you are talking about brah "Shrugs" I even agreed with ppl about jug cost http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/41402-Can-we-have-a-solid-slection-of-jug-pets-and-a-pet-tp-bar-Please?p=503768&viewfull=1#post503768, my thing was the efficacy and cost does not equate; man....talk about ppl being all over the place, lol (You). I understand that everyone does not want to lvl a craft, but I would be lying if i told you it did not make jug accessibility much easier.

To end this derailment, PUKS ARE VERMIN; happy?^^
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Puk_%28Final_Fantasy_XI%29

P.S, they beg to differ, puks may be part colibri.

[Leonardus]

Kindred are Demons. Demons are predatory to dragons. So a demon Beastmaster having a dragon pet makes a lot of sense because it is unique to their species not the job.

This is incorrect. They oppose each other, which is why it's so weird.

I also cannot agree with saying job abilities and traits have nothing to do with the lore. They most certainly do, but of course there can be odd occurrences of shared traits in one's arsenal because the items you equip and spells you cast have lore of their own (And of course, in the lore, adventurers can fuse two jobs together to forge their own destiny, to a limited extent).


Hello,

The development team has no plans to remove the level and status caps for pets, but we will continue to add new pets as we move forward, and we are planning to add new pets in the September version update.

So Camate, they won't explain their reasoning for the caps? Because I think that's what we all truly want. All the caps appear to do is force players to use the most current (and most expensive) pets, which are, more often than not, just copies of older pets, so why is SE making it harder on themselves?

[Vold]

Hello,

The development team has no plans to remove the level and status caps for pets, but we will continue to add new pets as we move forward, and we are planning to add new pets in the September version update.
You guys should ask yourselves why you think adding yet more jug pets is going to fix anything :x Does it not occur to you something isn't working or is it meant to be a continuous "throw them a bone to make them fell better" thing? ;(

[Rwolf]

This is incorrect. They oppose each other, which is why it's so weird.

I also cannot agree with saying job abilities and traits have nothing to do with the lore. They most certainly do, but of course there can be odd occurrences of shared traits in one's arsenal because the items you equip and spells you cast have lore of their own (And of course, in the lore, adventurers can fuse two jobs together to forge their own destiny, to a limited extent).

I can agree in hindsight that predator is the wrong descriptor to use. They do oppose each other, yet it's not weird in my opinion to see a demon Beastmaster with a Wyvern because of their opposition. Where I don't agree is using that as a foundation for saying logically Beastmaster should charm Dragon types because of this. Tres Duendes has a Fomor BLM for a pet, doesn't mean Beastmaster should charm Fomors either.

Job abilities having something to do with lore in the context of what the job is about, I agree on that. But when I was addressing WoW, it was said in the context of job abilities, traits and effects that are shared in any sort of way have nothing to do with lore. For example, just because you can wear "Beast Killer" armor doesn't make you a Beastmaster. BST and BLU have some overlap in abilities but BST taming monsters to use their monster abilities and BLU augments their soul with monster essence have nothing to do with each other. Even trust magic is not a comparison. They aren't pets, I cannot command them to do anything. I can only summon and release the magic.

I see no logical reason to break the game's lore just to allow BST to tame a mini wyrm. Puks are a unique case of being classified in the rigid structure of the game as Dragon-type but lore wise they are just as much Vermin as they are Dragons. Hence why I think they allowed BST to charm them. I don't agree with SE's reply awhile back that Puks are into Dragoons territory, so no Puk jugs.

[WoW]

Completely agree with Vold and Leo, if the cap was lifted, we would not need any new pets until the next cap, so essentially, SE is making it harder for themselves perhaps?

They could just dig in, do the work, knock bst affinity out, and reap the benefits later (Not worrying about new pets every three or so months, because we are complaining about the new ones suck-itude).

I would also like for SE to add moves which were removed from our jugs. Iirc, SE added wild carrot to every rabbit familiar, hence this should be doable, np. Pets should be close to their native forms, monstrosity like, this is absolutely ridiculous imo.
http://t14.imagechef.com/ic/imgout/samp3d81ed9a6f9c637b.jpg

He is missing two moves, Hoof Volley and Nihility Song, but you added them to monstrosity, hence they are implementable XD. Another example are the lynx, admantoise, and several others.

I would love for the cap to be lifted to end this senseless repeat cycle; however, I do not want to use a cactus with just 1k needles, a beetle without rhinowrecker, a lynx with only charged whisker, etc. Honestly, Hobs, Falcorr, and Nazuna will most likely be the main jugs used. I do not see anyone using the raptor, antilion, sabotender, fly, flytrap, apkallu, slug, or the beetle (rarely seen those guys in their respective eras, save the slug before the debuff changes, mainly hobs, NN, lucky, falcorr onry). Honestly, it would be pretty much the same, with a little hobs, falcorr, and nazuna. The great deal of jugs are not even good and SE is to blame. essentially, we will still be only using 3 or 4 jugs.

I cannot speak for everyone, but me and my friends mainly used the most damaging pets or the most durable (Hobs, Falcorr). This move removal is to blame. Most ppl would never use a crab over falcorr, NN, or hobs. However, a crab with venom shower and megascissors would be a solid choice as opposed to the whole hobs or falcorr only rotation. Imo, there is no reason to use the others; Thank You SE^^

Imo, hq versions of repeats whom are distinctly different than their nq counterparts are acceptable.

I may take a ton of flak for this, but I am an advocate for another crab^^







http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140311162716/ffxi/images/thumb/f/fa/Porter_Crab.png/200px-Porter_Crab.png
Metallic Body
Bubble Shower
Bubble Curtain
Scissor Guard
Big Scissors
Mega Scissors
Venom Shower

[dasva]

If the cap was lifted there would never be a "need" for new jugs. Our pets would automatically be our ilvl weapon just like other jobs (yes I'm aware it's ranged for smn/pup but same concept) without having to wait for new higher capped pets to come out unlike those jobs. We'd keep the versatility that this job was intended to have. Bsts were supposed to know and use the monsters types that are strong against what they are fighting instead of just throw ibukki at everything

[WoW]

Personally, I would like new jugs, because they screwed up the past batches. Our past jugs are dated, they have to introduce stronger variations of our jugs imo. For instance, ferromantoise > Raphie's version, porter crabs > all of our crabs, collared lynx > Crafty, Bloodclaw, inguza > Dapper Mac, Florido > Amigo Sabotender, vermillion raptor > Swift, Arundimite > Lars, Formiceros > Chuckey, Gamboge > Panzer, etc. All of the aforementioned guys have superior abilities than our dated versions. Appearance aside, the difference in special abilities are huge.

Personally, I would love for them to go down our familar list and release their recent/updated counterparts, one from each species; coeurl, adamantoise, diremite, beetle, etc. I mean, I have no intentions on using any of our ucapped jugs, save, hobs, falcorr, and NN. Adamantoise, beetle, raptor, sabotender, coeurl, apkallu, crab, ant? Nah, I am good, will pass on those guys. Ferromantoise, Gambodge beetle, vermillion raptor, florido sabotender, collared lynx, inguza, porter crab, formiceros? Yea, ill use those guys, in native form. The remaining jugs are pretty meh to begin with, flytrap, eft, lizard, fly; but the eft is the best of the bunch, not a bad pet, but not great neither.

[ZoMBie343]

Bump. Still havent played BST and no reason to bring BST into Delve.

[WoW]

I agree Zombie; wish SE would listen to us as opposed to brushing off the players.

I am in a wait and see mode. Me and Olor were discussing this in another thread, but SE should not repeat any jugs imo until the entire bestiary is full; makes no sense. I would welcome upgraded sub-species of a few (As i mentioned in my previous post), however, there are plenty of monsters left which have never made it to jug form. How are we 13 years in XI's lifespan and never seen a scorpion whom was out since like, what? 2003? But we have five crabs and a plethora of mandies/rabbits? Hmmm. If SE repeats any pets they better be awesome, lol. The lack of communication, refusal to listen/help us will cause a $hit storm, lol.

I was attached to the old guys and liked the notion of seeing updated versions, but I had a change of heart. Most of them are pretty sub-par and there are un-released monsters whom are much more efficient.

Imo, they should release those special strikers; most are hard hitters and have utility in their normal attacks; -20 tp to an enemy it strikes, defense down, stun, aoe damage and what not; on top of their dd expertise, I could see some people requesting for an occasional tp/defense reduction and stun. The new skirmishes may be the fad of the future, hence it may not be an "all delve world;" not entirely, but an important gearing aspect if the content deliverers. Any dd can do skirmish.

Also, I am not developer or anything, but it takes several months to release some jugs? I smell gimp deliberation, aka move removal as opposed to releasing them in near native form. Take this move out, that move out, remove beneficial effects, etc.