new smn ability ideas

[Clou777]

i think summoners should get a JA that allows a BP to be used without having to wait 1 minute to be used again, so can do 2 BP rages close together once every 10 minutes maybe and this ability could also be used to allow the avatars to chain BPs like a WS and make more use of lower lvl BP, example Double Slap > Rush = some skillchain.

also i think all avatars should gain En-spells and Spikes, Ramuh is the only one that has the both, would make more sense as like gods of their respected element to have each avatar with these BP wards, would make smns more party friendly and they could find out enemies weakness and use the correct buffs for the party to give them that edge.

[Soundwave]

Interesting idea, I'm gonna say we need more endgame...unless they consider to add this to SC lvl3's. This job abi won't be to useful useless they reconfigure the SC chart pathing...however I think your on the right track to something more.

[Clou777]

still even if its to finish a SC then follow with say Fire IV for MB

[Venrymel]

I disagree with giving each avatar En- and -Spikes spells, just because it would upset balances a bit. Really, it also wouldn't fit some of their stories, like Titan. I think it's great his Wards are purely protective.

I definitely supprt a JA like the one you described: 10-minute recast, use of next BP is free of its 1-minute recast.

I could use it to give the group both of Titan's Wards.

Merits to reduce that would be great, too.

[Ordoric]

set up avatars power an enspell status spell and a "protective effect"
Leviathan en posion and aquaveil granted for any alliance meber withn area of effect. and have it combine with favor.

[Malamasala]

A 10 min JA for another BP is just as useless as BP:Ward. It lessens the burden of our global BP timer, but does not solve it. What the job needs is many more BP categories.

BP: Elemental (for MBing)
BP: SC/Debuff (for SCs alternatively debuffing the monster)
BP: Rage (for large damage pacts, and AOE damage pacts)
BP: Heal (for healing pacts)
BP: Ward (for defensive pacts)

That would roughly make the job versatile, in that you can actually access pacts when needed, and not just pretend it is Predator Claw Fantasy XI.

[Soundwave]

A 10 min JA for another BP is just as useless as BP:Ward. It lessens the burden of our global BP timer, but does not solve it. What the job needs is many more BP categories.

BP: Elemental (for MBing)
BP: SC/Debuff (for SCs alternatively debuffing the monster)
BP: Rage (for large damage pacts, and AOE damage pacts)
BP: Heal (for healing pacts)
BP: Ward (for defensive pacts)

That would roughly make the job versatile, in that you can actually access pacts when needed, and not just pretend it is Predator Claw Fantasy XI.

I like this and all, but......... don't u think there will be a hate issue if soloing? With so many commands, when the avatar dies...your gonna acquire a lot of hate from these. if soloing a fairly tough mob.

Outside Abyssea would be more of an issue I would say but in Abyssea...lol. Please correct me if I'm wrong

[Malamasala]

All my Summoner ideas are party oriented. It is a MMO after all. Of course the solution to soloing would be to use less BPs.

[Shadobi]

One thing I wish would happen when summoning is the Prime avatars might occasionally be summoned then just the normal ones.

[azjazo]

Gonna copy here what I suggested in other topic (that was off topic actually cuz I didnt saw this thread)
edited a bit so it wont be a shameless copypasta.

A "casting" stance
Super Magical Avatar Stance of Happyness (name subject to change everyone names their suggested abilities to sound cool)
- Fuses the avatar with the elemental spirit of their corresponent element, giving the avatar the capacity to cast and behave like the elemental spirits while retaining the ability to command them and normal bloodpacts.
- Perp cost increases and the effect gets stronger as time passes till a cap like favor stance.
- As the effect gets stronger the avatar gets bonus in damage, reduces recast time on the elemental magic, AI and gives the avatar a "elemental seal" like bonus in accuracy of their bloodpacts.
- It will be required to posses the corresponding elemental spirit magic to activate said ability


a "melee" stance
Super Martial Avatar Stance of Joy
- Fuses the avatar with the player (not literally tho it would be cool)
- Perp cost increases and the effect gets stronger as time passes till a cap like favor stance.
- As the effect gets stronger the avatar gets bonus in their stats while draining the SMN stats, like attack, defense, str, acc, dex etc, diferent avatars would "drain" certain stats more than others
- It will give the avatar a special bonus like double attack, reduce delay, increase damage etc. depending on avatar.

just a couple of ideas, tunning would be the key.

[azjazo]

On the topic on the BP timers...

Mana Pact (stance)
Duration 2~3 min (depending on SMN skill)
Recast 5 min

Increases avatar Perp cost by 20%, bloodpact Cost by 20%
Reduces bloodpact recast timmer by 50%

The recast timmer reduction would stack on the -bp recast timmer gear so it can skip the 45 seconds cap, if you have gear that reduces normally to 45 seconds, then its 50% of those 45 seconds rounded down, 22 seconds bp recast time, with a penalitation of bp costing more, of course, you could cast bp while in the effect and have a bp cost 20% more then remove the stance by the time you are able to recast bp, so you can ditch 2 bp in less than 30 seconds spending 20% more MP on one pb and perp cost.

Not overpowered, has its downsise and adds strategy... if leving out avatar during all the stance, you could ditch in 4 bloodpacts in 2 minutes aprox. Doubliing the damage output but spending your mp pool like crazy, thus making gear that augment the activation rate of that trait forgot its name that reduces bp cost more desirable.

[azjazo]

Another one just cuz Im bored and <3 SMN (if my sig didnt gave you a clue)

This one goes to spirits (lets put some love on Spirits)

Elemental Aura
While spirit is out, grants the party:
- Mayor elemental resistance on element of the spirit
- Mayor elemental - on contrary element

Elemental Armor
While spirit is out, grants the party:
- Grants "spikes" of the corresponding element

Elemental Weapon
While spirit is out, grants the party:
- Grants En-spell of the corresponding element

All these could stack each one costing little MP to cast but adding 1 more to perp cost each.

All bonus are modified by day of the week, weather and SMN skill

[Soundwave]

always thought smn was getting a manawall JA

[Clou777]

I like this and all, but......... don't u think there will be a hate issue if soloing? With so many commands, when the avatar dies...your gonna acquire a lot of hate from these. if soloing a fairly tough mob.

Outside Abyssea would be more of an issue I would say but in Abyssea...lol. Please correct me if I'm wrong

The same thing goes if you're a blm you have lots of nukes to chose from but its optional whether you want to spam them or not, there may be more catagories, doesnt mean you have to use them all

[Feliciaa]

Great stuff Azjazo. I love how you are actually trying to change the job for the better and not just be another poster asking for Avatars. Keep up the good work. ^^

[Soundwave]

Great stuff Azjazo. I love how you are actually trying to change the job for the better and not just be another poster asking for Avatars. Keep up the good work. ^^

With this being said and true...everybody who has posted ideas, are not of the same as another.

In the past we asked for things and got them because a large part of the community wanted a change with this and we got everything we have asked for.

I feel that we are tossing ideas around but we have yet to see something everybody has agreed on.....that would be solid for this job.

[Malamasala]

In the past we asked for things and got them because a large part of the community wanted a change with this and we got everything we have asked for.

Lucky you. I never got anything I asked for.

1. 5 min ward duration -> went to COR.
2. "attachments" to customize avatars -> went to PUP.
3. Perpetuation free pet -> went to PUP.
4. Smarter pet casting AI -> went to PUP.
5. Stronger potency on wards -> went to COR.
6. More split BPs -> possibly went to DNC, you never know who stole that result.
7. No reset of casting timer on pet assault -> went to PUP.
8. Shorter recast timer on pets -> went to PUP. (this is spells, not summoning the pet)
9 Larger Ward range -> went to COR, then 2 years later arrived to SMN. So not completely stolen.
10. Haste for pet -> went to BST and PUP. I think we got one piece of gear or two though, so not completely missed.
11. Hybrid pet-melee gear -> went to PUP and BST.
12. Summon a party member JA -> went to 3 expansion purchase reward cloak
13. More Spirit Taker WSes -> Got myrkr which does zero damage and stuck on a high DMG staff... wtf?

You name it, I suggested it. Unless it is trivial or stupid, then I most likely did not suggest it. And people should stop worrying about "overpowered" ideas. I've discussed this for like a decade and there are still people who go "If you could have a free pet, you'd be overpowered" and I go "I have carbuncle" and they go "Yea, but if it did 1 damage more than carbuncle, it would be overpowered" and I usually just face palm and ignore them.


Not overpowered, has its downsise and adds strategy

Since wards cost MP, you could have ZERO recast on wards and it wouldn't be overpowered because you'd end up using up all your MP and becoming useless. Kind of like if a BRD could cast 4 songs in 2 seconds and then just stand and do nothing.

Rages are slightly different. All rages 55+ would do quite a lot of damage when spammed. Below 55 though, you'd have to spam to even match the damage of a SAM or WAR in a party, and if you spammed you'd still have to rest MP and fall behind.

Basically the only thing that needs a BP timer at all, are the 55+ DD pacts, everything else could be separate and still balanced. Assuming you want to call MNK, WAR, SAM balanced. If you want to call them overpowered, I could agree that spamming up to level 55 rage pacts would be overpowered as well. But that just means we have to nerf all DDs and not split our BPs up.

[Soundwave]

I basically said that we asked for changes and got it, I'm not talking about a one person wants...I'm talking about the time everybody was asking for increase Ward size AoE etc. particular changes that was known on community sites and was a problem to everybody. This is a prime example on what said. No offense or anything but just wanted to clear it up.

These are the things that SE will look into more frequently, everybody keeps asking for all these things that are not of the same...granted that there is nothing wrong with that but I feel the community can't find one thing to cling onto with summoner and pick it and keep asking for it. That....honestly goes for anything not just summoner...

[Tasuki]

Another one just cuz Im bored and <3 SMN (if my sig didnt gave you a clue)

This one goes to spirits (lets put some love on Spirits)

Elemental Aura
While spirit is out, grants the party:
- Mayor elemental resistance on element of the spirit
- Mayor elemental - on contrary element

Elemental Armor
While spirit is out, grants the party:
- Grants "spikes" of the corresponding element

Elemental Weapon
While spirit is out, grants the party:
- Grants En-spell of the corresponding element

All these could stack each one costing little MP to cast but adding 1 more to perp cost each.

All bonus are modified by day of the week, weather and SMN skill

ya i like this idea, I mean we do have Avatar's Favor, I think we should get Spirit's Favor as well for our Elemental spirits, at least help us to keep them out more as well like our Avatars now

[Malamasala]

I basically said that we asked for changes and got it, I'm not talking about a one person wants...I'm talking about the time everybody was asking for increase Ward size AoE etc. particular changes that was known on community sites and was a problem to everybody. This is a prime example on what said. No offense or anything but just wanted to clear it up.

The problem is that if you gather 100 people, only a few of them will have any common sense. Favors for example was requested by plenty of people, but they described it wrong and suggested something that would be ignored and useless. And that is what we got in the end as well.

The irony as always is that if SE had had a single community forum reader that passed on my ideas, favors would have been a major success putting Summoner right up there with BRD and COR for party support.

Example:

Had they gone with my favor system, it would not have been linked to avatars. You would have summoned your Garuda as always, then triggered Ifrit's Favor for DA bonus to the party, and everyone would have been happy.

Instead we got avatar centered favors that meant that when we use Garuda we do not touch Favors because nobody wants evasion bonus. And nobody uses Ifrit's Favor because Ifrit has terrible damage pacts.


Quite frustrating really to sit here with all solutions in print for SE, and they just ignore me.

[Momotarotaru]

Well I really would like to see Spirit with better AI ,BP Ward zero timer and BP rage 30 sec.
Poor spirit... I only let them in for 1 sec for Element Siphon and I rarely use it in Abys.

And I would like to see BP ward buff party, Pet and Avatar ... not just PC this way we can cure our Avatar...(well not sure this way will make SMN to be overpowered or not )

Another idea is I would like to see Main duty of Avatar.
Example Titan use for tank ...mean a lot of HP and defend.
Shiva use like BLM ... INT and MAB but weak physical
Garuda .... Best DD in all Avatar.
Leviathan and or Carby for the best Healing avatar.
Fenrir more like Ninja type (in my idea)
Etc ....

So we can use Avatar and Spirit in different situation.
and maybe SMN can make small party by using different avatar to make party ....
Example 1st SMN use Titan for tank
2nd SMN use Shiva for Magic DMG.
3rd SMN use Garuda for physical DD
4th SMN use Leviathan for Curing
Do I dream too much ?

[Malamasala]

Do I dream too much ?

No, but I always felt these kinds of ideas were very restricting. Some of us certainly have favorite avatars, and we'd prefer not being stuck doing single roles with them just because someone thought it was good to give them classes.

Besides since avatars tank through damage, the stats low damage taken, high damage given, is the ideal tank stats, and ideal DD stats, making it the one and same thing.

[Sasaraixx]

Gonna copy here what I suggested in other topic (that was off topic actually cuz I didnt saw this thread)
edited a bit so it wont be a shameless copypasta.

A "casting" stance
Super Magical Avatar Stance of Happyness (name subject to change everyone names their suggested abilities to sound cool)
- Fuses the avatar with the elemental spirit of their corresponent element, giving the avatar the capacity to cast and behave like the elemental spirits while retaining the ability to command them and normal bloodpacts.
- Perp cost increases and the effect gets stronger as time passes till a cap like favor stance.
- As the effect gets stronger the avatar gets bonus in damage, reduces recast time on the elemental magic, AI and gives the avatar a "elemental seal" like bonus in accuracy of their bloodpacts.
- It will be required to posses the corresponding elemental spirit magic to activate said ability


a "melee" stance
Super Martial Avatar Stance of Joy
- Fuses the avatar with the player (not literally tho it would be cool)
- Perp cost increases and the effect gets stronger as time passes till a cap like favor stance.
- As the effect gets stronger the avatar gets bonus in their stats while draining the SMN stats, like attack, defense, str, acc, dex etc, diferent avatars would "drain" certain stats more than others
- It will give the avatar a special bonus like double attack, reduce delay, increase damage etc. depending on avatar.

just a couple of ideas, tunning would be the key.

Azjazo has an idea worth exploring. I think that SMN needs more tweaks to existing traits/JA than it does brand new abilities. However, His/her suggestion does address one of our areas of improvement and that is avatar DOT. . .

The hate free aspect of our damage is great but aside from that uniqueness, our DOT is not great. Now that BLM has Mana Wall and Enmity Douse, i.e. allowing them to nuke more with less hate/danger of dying, I don't think it would be too overpowering to increase our avatars' overall DOT. In the physical stance avatar melee would be improved (and it is sorely lacking) and on the magical side additional nukes will also increase DOT. Also, the nuking stance concept is already in the game. This is how the Shiva VNM behaves in Abyssea. In the nuking stance, I would also have some variety between avatars as well to match the physical stance.

I think our ward side needs work as well. Avatar's favor is also too weak and should be our "enhancing stance." With the gear we have available, the reduction of perp cost isn't even much of a bonus. I would increase the range and potency for all the favors. I think the rate at which the favor is capped should be sped up both initially and after use of a blood pact. (As a side note, I don't think ward pacts should reset the favor. If this is supposed to be our enhancing stance, then we should be able to use ward pacts freely, without any penalty) I would also change some of the favors. (For example, Titan to straight -PDT% instead of +DEF).

As for the ward pacts themselves, aside from Hastega, they all need to have their duration and/or potency increased. You're limited to putting 1 up every 45 seconds and that includes debuffs and buffs. This limiting factor should be compensated for in the effectiveness of the wards. Perhaps some of the favors or wards could retain their current potency, but be able to push players past current caps.

The inclusion of Azjazo's idea would give SMN 3 workable stances - physical damage, magical damage and support. Given that WHM is already such a competent healer, and SCH & RDM are trying to catch up, I don't think our healing side needs a significant boost. The 3 healing pacts should scale a bit better but that's all.


The only things left I would like to see are a reworking of elemental spirits (casting time reduction, significantly increased nuking damage, better AI and more spells for the light spirit), more pet/avatar specific gear that SMN can equip (no more SMN & WHM on the same gear please!) and cleaning up of some issues such as auto-attack. These are additions/corrections I believe the job *needs*.

As far as things I would *like* but aren't at all necessary - a Cover or Collaborator type JA between the SMN and avatar and having each avatar be somewhat unique. I know many will disagree with the latter in particular but I like the idea of each of the avatars being particularly good at something other than resisting their native element. But again, that's just me.