Gravity Nerf...

[Creelo]

Was that REALLY necessary Dev Team?

Like really, was that REALLY necessary?

No. It wasn't. Heaven forbid Rdm be able to reduce an enemy's evasion further with both Distract II and Gravity II. Goodness, imagine if Rdm was actually really good at something for party play.

That was a pointless nerf and you should feel bad.

Also, I still feel like this update was more of a buff to Rdm as a subjob than as a main job, but I shall reserve full judgement until experiencing the update for myself.

[Demonjustin]

Why does Gravity II even exist again? Last I knew the only difference here was EVA Down, original being 20 and II being 40. If all Distract II is at the end of the day is -40 EVA then I've no words to even express my anger at this change. Gravity and II both seem to me like they'll be the exact same now, if the effects were simply detached then Distract as a spell is nothing new then Gravity II might as well be removed as it's nothing more than another spell in my list that does nothing for me.

[Creelo]

Gravity gave -10 Evasion down; WS's like Mordant Rime and Rudra's gave this kind of Gravity. Gravity II gave -25 Evasion down. Indi/Geo Gravity didn't give any Evasion down last time I did testing, this was before Geomancy+ from Dunna/Idris though. Saboteur did not increase the Evasion down effect. Gravity II does give a noticeably stronger "weight" effect than Gravity but this only really shines in the Kam BCNM fight or in WKR due to wonky hate (Kumhau especially is often just a completely sloppy mess, people running all over the place). Otherwise, Gravity's "weight" effect was pretty much useless because if you ever needed it, the fight was probably going to crap anyways.

It wasn't much, but for Gravity II, the evasion down was nice. And now it's gone... x_x

Honestly, one of the biggest problems I have right now with Rdm is that debuffs just don't compare at all to buffs in this game.

[Demonjustin]

Ok, so my numbers were off all this time. I thought it was 20 and 40 rather than 10 and 25. In either case I most definatly agree debuffs are far weaker than buffs and it's very problematic, especially when SE acts like any debuff has to be carefully watched as it might make everything too easy, but implementing something like Embrava was done without a second though even though they unleashed hell on balance with that single spell.

[Creelo]

In either case I most definatly agree debuffs are far weaker than buffs and it's very problematic, especially when SE acts like any debuff has to be carefully watched as it might make everything too easy, but implementing something like Embrava was done without a second though even though they unleashed hell on balance with that single spell.

QFT.

Especially the part about how SE has to carefully watch debuffs for balance, because in regards to this update, you just know they were thinking to themselves "Oh, if we implement an Evasion down spell, we should totally get rid of Gravity's evasion down effect as well!" Like it blows my mind, that it's stuff like this that concerns them when creating new content. One step forward, two steps back.

[Creelo]

Numbers/Info on Distract.

Distract is ice based (makes sense), Frazzle is dark based.

Distract I = -35 Eva at base. Does not appear to have a dStat term but was just casting on a naked player, so who knows.

Distract II = -50 Eva at base.

There was no base potency difference between /rdm Distract and Rdm main Distract.

Distract I with Uk'uxkaj Boots = -36 Eva.

Distract II with Rdm Emp Body+2 and Uk'uxkaj Boots = -57 Eva.

Distract II with Rdm Emp. Body+2, Uk'uxkaj Boots, and Saboteur (along with Rdm Emp Hands+2 Sab bonus) = -108 Eva.

Both appear to have a 2min base duration. The Sab Distract II lasted around 4min30sec~

I still don't think getting rid of Gravity II's Eva down was necessary at all, especially considering that Distract I isn't that much weaker than Distract II...

[Creelo]

Also, you can't have both Haste and Flurry on at the same time. Haste II/Flurry II overwrite each other and Haste/Flurry. Haste/Flurry can't overwrite Haste II/Flurry II

[Demonjustin]

The difference in potency is more than disheartening, it's another failure on SE's part to make RDM stand out. Oh well, at least it's something, maybe the Empyrean upgrade will make us stand out more with a higher potency buff on body and possibly hands making a larger difference? Perhaps we expected too much of SE, this is RDM after all, they failed us so many times before that this is still miles better than what should've been expected, just the better updates over the last year and their seemingly greater knowledge of how to go about things fooled us into a false sense of hope.

[Camate]

Greetings,

The physical evasion reduction effect from Distract has been set to a higher value than the original effect of Gravity.

The main effect of Gravity is reduced movement speed, but there were a lot of monsters that were resistant to it, which created situations where it was hard to use this spell in order to reduce evasion.

As we created a new, specialized magic spell with an effect of reduced evasion, instead of making adjustments to these spells based on situations where they are stacked, we decided to remove the evasion reduction effect from Gravity and boost this effect for Distract to make these spells easier to use.

[Demonjustin]

Will the effects of Distract II be changed in the next update to be higher than currently? As of right now Distract II is only a small bit better than that of Distract itself, this along with the fact they don't seem to be based off of INT in the same way spells like Paralyze or Slow are with MND will result in this spell being only slightly strong when used with RDM mains. This as a result means jobs like SCH or WHM who can sub RDM without much of a problem will now be even more powerful and RDM's new spells won't be unique enough to merit an invite over them in the eyes of many players.

[Trangnai]

Greetings,

The physical evasion reduction effect from Distract has been set to a higher value than the original effect of Gravity.

The main effect of Gravity is reduced movement speed, but there were a lot of monsters that were resistant to it, which created situations where it was hard to use this spell in order to reduce evasion.

As we created a new, specialized magic spell with an effect of reduced evasion, instead of making adjustments to these spells based on situations where they are stacked, we decided to remove the evasion reduction effect from Gravity and boost this effect for Distract to make these spells easier to use.

I think most of us understand that. While Distract is better then gravity ever was for Evasion reduction. I think, while we see how it is off of the original topic. That Distract and Distract II don't really large enough of a gap to make rdm stand out.

And so much for leveling from 24-35 without using that acc food? I doubt anyone leveling rdm even thinks of using gravity for its evasion reduction. As it never said it reduced evasion in its description.

I think what most rdms were hoping for with this update was something to let us back into content, but once again any support or healing class can just /rdm and fill that role.

Sometimes I think this game would be more balanced without a subjob system. but at the same time it would remove one of the unique features that keeps people playing it.

[Ophannus]

Distract I should be set at -20 Evasion when RDM is set as a support job. No reason to give WHM BLM and SCH any more benefit over /RDM than before except for Frazzle/Flurry.

[Rwolf]

-_- I called it in the RDM Update thread. I was really concerned this would happen and lo and behold, SE continues the tradition of making Tier II not noticeable stronger on its own than anything accessible by other jobs.

I agree with all said so far. Honestly RDM needs a complete upheaval of Enhancing & Enfeebling Magic to scale potency/duration with skill. So that even though others have access, it's not as potent as RDM who has the highest skill in both.

All of its Tier II merit spells need to be removed and added as scrolls (not just RDM really). As this was based on Level 75 cap and cripples the selection of Enhancing/Enfeebling magic. I'd rather see Tier II personally be more all-encompassing things like Enhancing & Enfeebling Magic potency or duration.

Also either we should have access to things like Afflatus Solace/Misery and Yonin/Innin, or Convert should be nerfed/removed from being set as a subjob. I'm all for buffing instead of nerfing, or a combination of both; giving access to all subjob abilities but with a degraded effect like Sublimation, Sneak/Trick Attack, etc.

[Sp1cyryan]

Greetings,

The physical evasion reduction effect from Distract has been set to a higher value than the original effect of Gravity.

The main effect of Gravity is reduced movement speed, but there were a lot of monsters that were resistant to it, which created situations where it was hard to use this spell in order to reduce evasion.

As we created a new, specialized magic spell with an effect of reduced evasion, instead of making adjustments to these spells based on situations where they are stacked, we decided to remove the evasion reduction effect from Gravity and boost this effect for Distract to make these spells easier to use.

They don't seem to understand what is actually a nerf and what is a completely beneficial for everyone.

Thank you for the new spells. They all came out rather balanced and beneficial.

Perhaps you guys could please look at gravity II now that the evasion is no longer part of it?

Also a quick question, but is this change for all sorts of gravity? If a monster uses a move that grants gravity to players does that also no longer deal with evasion or is this just related to players?

[Ophannus]

RDM got hit hard with level cap. All of it's unique spells and abilities became subbable with no scaline or nerfing. Convert? Full strength. Refresh? Full potency. Haste? same as RDM main. But when RDM wants to sub Scholar? Half potency Sublimation, reduced strategems, no Light Arts/Dark Arts bonus for Helices or Regens, nerfed Helix duration. Sub White Mage? No Afflatus Misery or Afflatus Solace, sub NIN? 3 shadows on Utsusemi: Ni instead of 4, sub Bard? 1 song.

Almost every sub gets reduced power except for /RDM which gives WHM, BLM, SCH, GEO and SMN a huge boost to flexibility. If a RDM subs GEO they get terribly weak Geomancy because no Handbells and halved Geo skill. If a RDM subs SMN they get a level 49 Avatar. But if a GEO or SCH sub /RDM? Full strength Convert, full strength everything. Either nerf some of /RDM's abilities to make RDM main more unique, or boost the effectiveness of other support jobs. Why can't we get Afflatus Solace/Misery/Yonin/Innin but everyone and their mother can get Convert. At least give RDM traits that reduce the HP tradeoff for Convert similar to Souleater's traits.

[Glamdring]

I'm with all those saying anything that can work off a sub means rdm gets nothing viable in end-game. The thing is, I wasn't aware rdm had been designed to be only an end-game sub-job, like dnc for the most part. the spells with tier 2 that rdm gets for being over 49 need to be at LEAST twice as strong (if not more for spells where it needs to scale into end-game mob resistances) for the utility of the job as a main job to even be considered. that means 3 options: a. move the tier 1 of all the new spells to level 50 or higher, b. weaken the tier 1 to half the strength of the tier 2 version, with the same penalty as MP gets when derived from a subjob only (approx. 1/3 of the level 99 score) so that anyone casting off /rdm gets 1/3 the potency of the tier 2 spell off a rdm main, but a rdm main casting the tier 1 gets half the tier 2 strength, or c. get rid of the 2 tiers, create only 1 and make them only learnable post level 50.

And yes, our JA are ridiculously useful /rdm for other jobs, while their JA don't add much to rdm main. That utility needs to be severely nerfed. While I think having spells scale to our skill levels will help it won't be much, other jobs can get close enough to our skill level (especially with merit/gear/food choices) that their enfeebling (as an example) is "good enough" considering all the other elements they bring to the table. Sorry to dump this into your lap SE but the problem WAS created by YOUR means of scaling the OTHER jobs that can fill the rdm niche into end-game. Look back over the last several years at all the various "fix rdm job" threads, there are plenty of viable solutions presented, often by players who actually want to play red mage, and often based on the exact reason they were denied a party slot in an end-game fight. you can't get much more relevant information on how rdm is perceived in the game now than that. Play with them, kick them around the water cooler. Here's an idea, you all play the game according to an earlier post from Camate or Bayonne iirc, well get off the test server and on to a player server and refuse to play any job but red mage, when you get denied a party slot, ASK WHY. and just for giggles, try it during North American prime playing time. It's a cultural thing, Americans tend to gripe differently than Japanese people, so you may hear a different set of gripes than you get on here, especially if a forum griper is concerned with being banned and so is "pulling their punches" so to speak. And I'll apologize in advance for the insults some of you may get to what you thought were good ideas, but may set off a tirade in a social LS or the like-just because something is a rant doesn't mean it isn't accurate.

and all of this commentary is coming from someone who doesn't want to play rdm much in end-game but only leveled it in the 1st place to a. clear some inventory space occupied by rdm-only spell scrolls, and b. wanted to skill both offensive and defensive magics fairly high before leveling blm or whm. my friends DO want to rdm main end-game, but they aren't allowed to unless they want to solo; I'd like to see that change, for their sakes.

[Trangnai]

RDM got hit hard with level cap. All of it's unique spells and abilities became subbable with no scaline or nerfing. Convert? Full strength. Refresh? Full potency. Haste? same as RDM main. But when RDM wants to sub Scholar? Half potency Sublimation, reduced strategems, no Light Arts/Dark Arts bonus for Helices or Regens, nerfed Helix duration. Sub White Mage? No Afflatus Misery or Afflatus Solace, sub NIN? 3 shadows on Utsusemi: Ni instead of 4, sub Bard? 1 song.

Almost every sub gets reduced power except for /RDM which gives WHM, BLM, SCH, GEO and SMN a huge boost to flexibility. If a RDM subs GEO they get terribly weak Geomancy because no Handbells and halved Geo skill. If a RDM subs SMN they get a level 49 Avatar. But if a GEO or SCH sub /RDM? Full strength Convert, full strength everything. Either nerf some of /RDM's abilities to make RDM main more unique, or boost the effectiveness of other support jobs. Why can't we get Afflatus Solace/Misery/Yonin/Innin but everyone and their mother can get Convert. At least give RDM traits that reduce the HP tradeoff for Convert similar to Souleater's traits.

I can agree with this as a whole. Every Subjob suffers a weakness that makes the main more desirable, except for rdm. RDM gets limited in what it can do and how it can use subjobs, and even how it can use its skills as a whole as dependent on the games system.

RDM is a hybrid support class, but its strengths are also a weakness in a game with so many classes and a system where you can mix and match to give you the best possible choices. While its a pro for certain roles RDM can preform, its also a weakness as everyone else has access to those roles as well, as long as they combine well with the primary role.

[Return1]

The power of a fully buffed Distract II is the equivalent of a 4.5min feint is it not? Seems pretty good to me.

Wouldn't RDM replace WHM for things you'd bring RNGs to now? Flurry II seemed pretty amazing, Dia III is always great, and Distract II is extremely potent.

[Sasaraixx]

Will the effects of Distract II be changed in the next update to be higher than currently? As of right now Distract II is only a small bit better than that of Distract itself, this along with the fact they don't seem to be based off of INT in the same way spells like Paralyze or Slow are with MND will result in this spell being only slightly strong when used with RDM mains. This as a result means jobs like SCH or WHM who can sub RDM without much of a problem will now be even more powerful and RDM's new spells won't be unique enough to merit an invite over them in the eyes of many players.

You have to keep in mind that RDM has access to more "enhances enfeebling potency" gear and has Saboteur. The numbers over at BG show that a RDM w/ the proper gear and Sab can get -108 eva and have it last for 4.5 minutes. The best a SCH or WHM would be able to do is -36. I don't think the base spells need to be adjusted at all.

And as someone else mentioned, RDM really has a claim to be the best healer in RNG parties now. I really think we need to see how things play out over the next couple of weeks.

[Tennotsukai]

I feel this gravity nerf really sucks more for blu since we received a new gravity spell and not an evasion down spell. In fact, we have no decent evasion downs, not counting infrasonics.

[Archi]

Unfortunately i cannot draw (i wish i can draw artwork), but i try to describe it

There is one party (pld,mnk,mnk,mnk,rng,whm) fighting on monster and rdm sitting on the bench waiting to get invited

BEFORE RDM NEW SPELL
PLD/WAR (focusing on to get mob attention)
MNK/WAR : {Haste}
MNK/WAR : Blindna! Blindna! Blindna
MNK/WAR (with red low hp) : Cure me plz...
RNG/NIN (enjoying range attack on mob)
WHM/RDM : Ok. Yes. Hang on. Wait plz

RDM/WHM dreaming "when i can get a invite in that party?"

AFTER RDM NEW SPELL patch
PLD/WAR : Distract the mob, i need to keep my hate
MNK/WAR : {Haste}
MNK/WAR : Blindna! Blindna! Blindna
MNK/WAR (with red low hp) : Cure me plz...
RNG/NIN : Flurry plz
WHM/RDM : #&$*

RDM/WHM : poor whm....

I think that situational will be more happen in the future.. :)

[Sp1cyryan]

I feel this gravity nerf really sucks more for blu since we received a new gravity spell and not an evasion down spell. In fact, we have no decent evasion downs, not counting infrasonics.

The only way to nerf gravity is to make the mob move faster with it on. I don't know why people keep insisting this is a nerf. Moving a minor evasion reduction that most people didn't even take advantage of for a new less resisted spell that has a larger reduction to evasion is not worth caring about. People only benefited from this. Gravity still makes mobs move slow, we have a better way of applying evasion down, and RDM becomes more appealing.

As for BLU can't say I would either ever have room to set set evasion down or stop my DPS in the face of having accuracy bonus on instead.

[Demonjustin]

The only way to nerf gravity is to make the mob move faster with it on. I don't know why people keep insisting this is a nerf. Moving a minor evasion reduction that most people didn't even take advantage of for a new less resisted spell that has a larger reduction to evasion is not worth caring about. People only benefited from this. Gravity still makes mobs move slow, we have a better way of applying evasion down, and RDM becomes more appealing.While I agree it's not a nerf to the job it is a nerf to the spell and effect. If the fact it had EVA Down as a bonus were so small a thing that no one cared or used it for such an effect then why bother to remove it in the first place? The fact of the matter is Gravity doesn't land on most high level content anyways and if someone can land it then there's 0 reason it shouldn't have kept it's EVA down properties it already had. To remove them now is stupid.

[Rwolf]

I agree that Gravity II changes is not a nerf. The spell was nerfed, but overall it's a better and easier evasion down. There was nothing that nerfed RDM this update. That would be ludicrous to think so. I think the spells are nice and I'm enjoying them so far. However, it doesn't stop me from giving constructive criticism, under this preconception of just being grateful RDM got anything.

The whole point of adding these new spells was to solidify RDM's job identity. I do not understand the reason why it was necessary to add Tier I accessibility to other classes with no repercussions or any other additions before it. My concern is that there is no penalty to /RDM and because of that, it weakens the job identity of RDM as a whole. Meaning there are a lot of situations that don't require RDMs abilities because it can be done by another job. Weaker yes, but they have their main job abilities to fall back on as well.

RDM now has RNG parties if the group is comfortable enough to not carry a WHM. However, no other class has to deal with their job defining abilities being so useful that it can negate bringing the job itself currently. Part of the issue of RDM identity is job/subjob balance. In my opinion either Enhancing Magic/Enfeebling Magic should scale better and Convert nerfed/locked out, or better/less negative option is to open up locked/nerfed support job options from other jobs like Afflatus, Yonin/Innin, Geomancy, Songs, etc.

If other jobs can use /RDM to a full extent, other jobs doing the same would help level the playing field on what main jobs bring to the table.

[Sp1cyryan]

While I agree it's not a nerf to the job it is a nerf to the spell and effect. If the fact it had EVA Down as a bonus were so small a thing that no one cared or used it for such an effect then why bother to remove it in the first place? The fact of the matter is Gravity doesn't land on most high level content anyways and if someone can land it then there's 0 reason it shouldn't have kept it's EVA down properties it already had. To remove them now is stupid.

I assumed that they took the same debuff slot. That be a reason right?

[Creelo]

Gravity was never really that difficult to land on difficult content anyways... Very Difficult is another story though, where Meva on mobs can be stupid high for ALL spells and a total pain to land without Stymie or Elemental Seal.

The problem with taking away Gravity's evasion down effect is that you lose a spell that could possibly land more easily than Distract on certain monsters (fire based, especially). And yes, this was effectively a nerf to Rdm because their Gravity II's -25 Evasion was nice enough to be noticeable and worthwhile, and Rdm needs all the love it can get right now. It's more of a slap to a face because we weren't told of this until the update actually hit. This was also a small nerf to MR and Rudra's (yes! my Brd is sour over this), where the Gravity was always a nice extra boon to essentially be able to give Acc+10 to your entire party through WSing and applying Gravity at the same time.

Also, you didn't need Enfeebling potency gear to enhance Gravity's Evasion down effect; it was static and doesn't depend on any dStat or potency gear. You need it however for Distract if you want to improve its potency, and for Rdm on harder content, this can pose to be a problem because they lose so much Macc from switching out their Body/Hands/Feet slots for these types of pieces that enhance Enfeebling magic. The Dev team really needs to push out reforged Emp armor already to help resolve this. And/or they should give Saboteur a significant Macc boost; that would help Rdm out immensely.

Finally, Gravity's evasion down effect would have stacked with Distract. So for Rdm, I don't see how you can't call this a nerf by them removing Rdm's Gravity II evasion down.

[Demonjustin]

I assumed that they took the same debuff slot. That be a reason right?You'd be wrong since EVA Down & Weight have stacked when applied via many various forms, there's no real reason to think that RDM's version couldn't work the same way.

[Trangnai]

I think we can all agree that this update actually buffs rdm. The Evasion Down from gravity was great when we had no other forms to access. I don't think losing it is a loss. The biggest loss I can think of is the memories of me needing it to solo VTs when leveling pre 75, I do not get the luck of ever being able to duplicate that, but even then at 35+ I have a better spell in its wake. So its not a loss.

The problem is is due to the fact it buffs /rdm as well. rdms role still hasn't changed. Maybe some risk takers will invite us to content as we can handle healing or other roles well. But we are still behind the cookie cutters and have nothing unique to bring to the table, hindering us.

[Babekeke]

I think we can all agree that this update actually buffs rdm.

Exactly. I think most RDMs don't realise that the evasion down effect on gravity was holding RDM back. Gravity 2 couldn't have a better evasion down effect because of the weight effect, but RDM couldn't have a better eva down spell because it would stack with gravity's eva down.

By splitting eva down from grav, it allowed RDM to get a much more potent eva down spell. Heck, the job that lost out most here is SMN. 3 days ago, SMN had the most potent Eva down effect, and it stacked with Gravity 2. Now, RDM has an eva down that is more potent than grav 2 + Diamond Storm together.

[Sp1cyryan]

You'd be wrong since EVA Down & Weight have stacked when applied via many various forms, there's no real reason to think that RDM's version couldn't work the same way.

Well then since that is out my last conclusion is they felt double evasion down would have been too imbalanced. With saboteur you can already get 100+ evasion down alone on Distract II. There are other sources of evasion down such as GEO and lolDNC they keep in mind when they do these things. Gravity II would have added another 40 to that too.

Do I agree with them if that was their logic? A little bit, but they could have just lowered gravitys evasion down by half on each spell.

Should anyone care it is gone? No.

[Sasaraixx]

Finally, Gravity's evasion down effect would have stacked with Distract. So for Rdm, I don't see how you can't call this a nerf by them removing Rdm's Gravity II evasion down.

You can't call something a nerf when it never existed in the first place. The bottom line is that RDM can now lower monster evasion by almost three times more than it could before the update. This is not a nerf. It's amazing how many people can't see the bigger picture.

[Raydeus]

I feel kinda bad for all the RDMs who actually want to play in parties. /comfort



But as a solo RDM I'm very happy about the now soloing spells we got. 〜(￣▽￣〜)

#I'mBetterOnMyOwn

[Camate]

Greetings,


You have to keep in mind that RDM has access to more "enhances enfeebling potency" gear and has Saboteur. The numbers over at BG show that a RDM w/ the proper gear and Sab can get -108 eva and have it last for 4.5 minutes. The best a SCH or WHM would be able to do is -36. I don't think the base spells need to be adjusted at all.

And as someone else mentioned, RDM really has a claim to be the best healer in RNG parties now. I really think we need to see how things play out over the next couple of weeks.

It’s just as Sasaraixx has said.

With the use of Saboteur and enfeebling potency equipment, it is possible to boost the effect of both Distract and Frazzle. However, for NMs this has been slightly scaled back.

As we added multiple new spells for red mage in the July version update, we’d first like to keep an eye on how this affects overall battle balance. Please continue to use these spells in a wide variety of situations and let us know your feedback based on your results.

[Demonjustin]

With the use of Saboteur and enfeebling potency equipment, it is possible to boost the effect of both Distract and Frazzle.We must rely on abilities to be better than others by a noticeable amount. The normal spell is 35, 36 with the boots all of our competitors can wear, while our II spell and Body give us 57. That's not terrible, but it's not that much of a jump especially compared to Accuracy bonus effects that are much more potent. Then you have Saboteur which yes is powerful but wears off if we resist even though it shouldn't and...


However, for NMs this has been slightly scaled back.this, this is the one thing I'll never understand. The only time I'd ever need EVA Down is on NMs. There's nothing in this game you can't hit with Accuracy food and Accuracy gear even on RDM let alone other DDs. To make it so the one thing I'd use these spells on more than anything are actually less affected by it really just lowers their effect even more. Buffs on the other hand get the same potency everywhere, unlike debuffs if a BRD sings to you or a COR rolls their dice then by all means it's at full potency no matter what, but when a RDM enfeebles something it's got to be weaker if it's a NM because otherwise we might actually make a real difference in the fight.


As we added multiple new spells for red mage in the July version update, we’d first like to keep an eye on how this affects overall battle balance. Please continue to use these spells in a wide variety of situations and let us know your feedback based on your results.Will do. Just please disregard the overall annoyed nature of my replies. As much as I love the spells and will make a ton of use of them I also hate the idea that they are likely going to do little to nothing for my job overall. I had hopes this update would let me melee on higher content, using my EVA Down spells to remove the EVA of a monster and make my Accuracy gap (that I am left with by fault of my B Rank skill) a thing of the past. I was mistaken, I was also mistaken that I would be able to stack this EVA Down with my old EVA Down from Gravity to aid me in this issue. Haste II is powerful, that's something I'm grateful for, same with Flurry being potent. The one thing RDM still needs when it comes to buffs in my opinion that hasn't been done is a way to refresh all buffs on a RDM instantly, at very least RDM's own self cast buffs. The worst part about being a RDM who melees is that every 12~13 minutes in a fight we have to recast every one of our buff spells except Protect and Shell basically just to fight even decently. A spell that would renew these buffs would be fantastic and make DDing as a RDM much easier.

[Return1]

It's pretty stupid to lower the potency of enfeebles on the only thing you'd use them on, especially when you're trying to make enfeebles as good as buffs which never get reductions.

[Glamdring]

Greetings,



It’s just as Sasaraixx has said.

With the use of Saboteur and enfeebling potency equipment, it is possible to boost the effect of both Distract and Frazzle. However, for NMs this has been slightly scaled back.

As we added multiple new spells for red mage in the July version update, we’d first like to keep an eye on how this affects overall battle balance. Please continue to use these spells in a wide variety of situations and let us know your feedback based on your results.

telling someone to load up on a truckload of gear specifically to cast 1 or 2 situational spells-and those are "scaled back" in content where they are needed most-is NOT a fix to the job. and as I said earlier, when the tier 1 versions that any /rdm can do work almost as well, especially when that job is also bringing more nukes or 2 higher tiers of healing or regen or other desired elements to the fight simply isn't enough to bring rdm back to desired status. I may be wrong, but having observed end game party recruiting for the last 5 years from shouts or yells I seriously doubt it.

[Creelo]

Don't get me wrong, this update was HUGE for Rdm. But no matter how you cut it, Gravity was nerfed and Rdm's Gravity II had a fairly potent -25 Evasion that it can no longer bring to the table. Sure, Distract II definitely helps make for this, but it's still not as much as it ultimately could have been for Rdm. So it's like Rdm was buffed, but not as much as they could have been due to losing Gravity II's -25 Evasion, which would have stacked with Distract. That is the bigger picture, and if you can't see that, then you are blind and without eye drops. Or just stupid.

Anyways...

Camate, if you could, please look into Saboteur receiving a Macc boost for the next enfeebling spell cast. On Very Difficult and Delve mega bosses and even just some Difficult content, this lack of Sab Macc+ can pose to be a problem for Rdm. Stymie and Elemental Seal can help with this, but both only last for 1 spell and ES requires /blm, which often limits all that a Rdm can do in party play, especially in regards to main-healing due to the lack of /sch or /whm. The other problem with Stymie and ES are their recast timers, 60min and 10min (I'm not saying lower their recast timers, just vouching for a Sab Macc boost since Sab is at reasonable 5min recast). The effects of the enfeebling magic are cut short anyways due to how Sab works on NMs.

Also, could you please try to push the Dev team along with the reforged Emp armor. I mean, you are basically suggesting Rdms use Enfeebling potency equipment, but this equipment harshly lacks the MAcc/Enfeebling skill/Stat vomit of alternative ilvl 119 gear, mostly because the Empyrean armor still hasn't been reforged to even ilvl 109 status yet. I know Rdm isn't the only job wishing for reforged Emp armor too.

This update did a lot for Rdm, but Rdm still is lacking in many elements when it comes to party play compared to other jobs. Solo though? It's better than ever.

[Babekeke]

The only time I'd ever need EVA Down is on NMs.

I'm fairly sure that if you're in a Cappoints PT in Woh that the rest of your PT would love you for using eva down on those pesky wabbits. I've read that you need ~1050 acc (before food) to cap on them, so this spell allows you to either have Minuet instead of madrigal, or allows the DDs to equip more STP/multi-hit gear instead of acc gear.

[Demonjustin]

The spell in general yes against those mobs it would help I won't deny that, that said I don't fight them because I find Dho Gates to be much better due to the fact the fights there are faster, easier, and give roughly 75~80% of the Capacity Points as well as the same XP. Also while you're correct that Woh Gates mobs could use EVA Down I'd be literally casting it every single mob, something Saboteur wouldn't help with anyways which was part of I was talking about as well. Stacking Saboteur with it being one of the only methods of making it stand out for RDM specifically means you're going to have to be fighting something that will take a while to kill, normal mobs alone simply won't get much out of this effect. To make the effect weaker in the one place where it truly shines kinda defeats the point of having it in the first place in my opinion.

[Sasaraixx]

telling someone to load up on a truckload of gear specifically to cast 1 or 2 situational spells-and those are "scaled back" in content where they are needed most-is NOT a fix to the job. and as I said earlier, when the tier 1 versions that any /rdm can do work almost as well, especially when that job is also bringing more nukes or 2 higher tiers of healing or regen or other desired elements to the fight simply isn't enough to bring rdm back to desired status. I may be wrong, but having observed end game party recruiting for the last 5 years from shouts or yells I seriously doubt it.

How can 3 pieces of gear be considered "a truckload of gear?" And on top of that, they are 3 pieces of gear that you should have anyway.

You have to be more practical. Development of these spells doesn't happen in a vacuum. They have to consider existing gear and abilities and spells/abilities of other jobs.

You're also not considering the other spells RDM received in this update. I'm not going to say you are right or wrong about RDM finding a spot in endgame parties because it's too early to tell. As I said, I think there is a case to be made for RDM being the premiere healer in RNG parties. That obviously won't get you a spot in every end game event, but it is a start.

Everyone needs to take a deep breath and go out and experiment with these new spells in different party setups.

[Sasaraixx]

Don't get me wrong, this update was HUGE for Rdm. But no matter how you cut it, Gravity was nerfed and Rdm's Gravity II had a fairly potent -25 Evasion that it can no longer bring to the table. Sure, Distract II definitely helps make for this, but it's still not as much as it ultimately could have been for Rdm. So it's like Rdm was buffed, but not as much as they could have been due to losing Gravity II's -25 Evasion, which would have stacked with Distract. That is the bigger picture, and if you can't see that, then you are blind and without eye drops. Or just stupid.

You really are not in a position to call anyone else stupid.

You are talking about the loss of a bonus which never existed and never was intended. The potency of Distract was determined with the changes to Gravity II in mind. Had they decided not to remove the evasion down effect of gravity, the potency of Distract would have been lowered.

That -25 evasion you can "no longer bring to the table" was replaced by a spell with twice the potency and the ability to be augmented further. You lost nothing in this update except perhaps for the inability to land -Eva on fire based mobs, but even that is balanced by being now being able to apply the buff to ice based mobs.

You now have the ability to lower the monster's evasion by up to 4 times more than you could previously and and the gap between RDM main and /RDM has increased by a similar margin. Yes, this was clearly a nerf.

There is a conversation to be had bout what this change does for RDM in the long run, but there is not one to be he about a non-existent nerf.

[Creelo]

You really are not in a position to call anyone else stupid.

You are talking about the loss of a bonus which never existed and never was intended. The potency of Distract was determined with the changes to Gravity II in mind. Had they decided not to remove the evasion down effect of gravity, the potency of Distract would have been lowered.

That -25 evasion you can "no longer bring to the table" was replaced by a spell with twice the potency and the ability to be augmented further. You lost nothing in this update except perhaps for the inability to land -Eva on fire based mobs, but even that is balanced by being now being able to apply the buff to ice based mobs.

You now have the ability to lower the monster's evasion by up to 4 times more than you could previously and and the gap between RDM main and /RDM has increased by a similar margin. Yes, this was clearly a nerf.

There is a conversation to be had bout what this change does for RDM in the long run, but there is not one to be he about a non-existent nerf.

You really have horrible reading comprehension. I'm literally just saying that GRAVITY was nerfed. I'm not saying the entire job of Rdm was nerfed by this update; I've clearly said quite the opposite. GRAVITY no longer gives -10/-25 Evasion down on the enemy, and that IS a nerf (If you can't see this as a nerf to Gravity itself then you're hopeless). You can't say that WSs like Mordant Rime and Rudra's Storm weren't nerfed slightly by this update, because they were because GRAVITY was nerfed. Yes, Rdm has Distract II now to make up for this. But why couldn't it also have Gravity II's Evasion down as well? If you don't need Gravity II's -25 Evasion, then don't cast it and stick with Distract II, thus enabling Gravity II to still be the utility spell they want it to be. But if you were to need it in addition to Distract II, well now you can't have that extra -25 Evasion down. That could have been a really nice feature of Rdm, something to make it really stand out in a party situation, but apparently it would have been too "unbalanced" (which is laughable given what other jobs like Cor/Geo/Brd can do and how unbalanced DD jobs currently are).

Going back to my original post, I just feel this nerf to Gravity was unnecessary given the current state of the game. I never expected this thread to blow up so much, so if you can't contribute anything, then just stop.



PS for Sasaraixx: You don't seem to understand how Saboteur works on NMs, you aren't going to have -108 Evasion on anything worthwhile due to it being an NM and it's not going to last 4.5min. I love how you seem to think that you can keep up this kind of Sab debuff on the enemy full time too. I also love how you seem to think that I'm unaware of potency of Distract II when I was the one who found these numbers in the first place. Also, Distract II is Ice based, so you probably are going to have a tough time landing it on Ice based mobs... I'm guessing you meant Wind-based mobs, but by all means, apparently you know this job better than I do so go right ahead. Finally, the gap between Rdm main and /rdm has hardly increased, if at all, since jobs like Geo/rdm, Sch/rdm, even Whm/rdm (where before /sch was much preferred for Whm main, /rdm is now a viable option) gained so much from this update, especially Geo/rdm. Even jobs like Cor/rdm and Brd/rdm gained a new buff through Flurry, and Cors and Brds don't have to rely on landing debuffs on mobs to be useful either. So. Please tell me. Cause I am dying to know how the gap between Rdm main and /rdm has increased by "4 times as much."

One last thing, I believe Demonjustin hinted at this earlier, but if they really were determining the potency of Distract I/II off of Gravity I/II's Evasion down, then how the hell did they come up with -35/-50 for Distract I/II when Gravity I/II was -10/-25? If anything, the potency for Distract should probably have been -20/-50.

[Sasaraixx]

You really have horrible reading comprehension. I'm literally just saying that GRAVITY was nerfed. I'm not saying the entire job of Rdm was nerfed by this update; I've clearly said quite the opposite. GRAVITY no longer gives -10/-25 Evasion down on the enemy, and that IS a nerf (If you can't see this as a nerf to Gravity itself then you're hopeless). You can't say that WSs like Mordant Rime and Rudra's Storm weren't nerfed slightly by this update, because they were because GRAVITY was nerfed. Yes, Rdm has Distract II now to make up for this. But why couldn't it also have Gravity II's Evasion down as well? If you don't need Gravity II's -25 Evasion, then don't cast it and stick with Distract II, thus enabling Gravity II to still be the utility spell they want it to be. But if you were to need it in addition to Distract II, well now you can't have that extra -25 Evasion down. That could have been a really nice feature of Rdm, something to make it really stand out in a party situation, but apparently it would have been too "unbalanced" (which is laughable given what other jobs like Cor/Geo/Brd can do and how unbalanced DD jobs currently are).

Going back to my original post, I just feel this nerf to Gravity was unnecessary given the current state of the game. I never expected this thread to blow up so much, so if you can't contribute anything, then just stop.



PS for Sasaraixx: You don't seem to understand how Saboteur works on NMs, you aren't going to have -108 Evasion on anything worthwhile due to it being an NM and it's not going to last 4.5min. I love how you seem to think that you can keep up this kind of Sab debuff on the enemy full time too. I also love how you seem to think that I'm unaware of potency of Distract II when I was the one who found these numbers in the first place. Also, Distract II is Ice based, so you probably are going to have a tough time landing it on Ice based mobs... I'm guessing you meant Wind-based mobs, but by all means, apparently you know this job better than I do so go right ahead. Finally, the gap between Rdm main and /rdm has hardly increased, if at all, since jobs like Geo/rdm, Sch/rdm, even Whm/rdm (where before /sch was much preferred for Whm main, /rdm is now a viable option) gained so much from this update, especially Geo/rdm. Even jobs like Cor/rdm and Brd/rdm gained a new buff through Flurry, and Cors and Brds don't have to rely on landing debuffs on mobs to be useful either. So. Please tell me. Cause I am dying to know how the gap between Rdm main and /rdm has increased by "4 times as much."

One last thing, I believe Demonjustin hinted at this earlier, but if they really were determining the potency of Distract I/II off of Gravity I/II's Evasion down, then how the hell did they come up with -35/-50 for Distract I/II when Gravity I/II was -10/-25? If anything, the potency for Distract should probably have been -20/-50.

This is absolutely the last time I am going to take the time to respond to you. In addition to being increasingly rude, you are the one who doesn't get it.

You weren't complaining about a nerf to RDM?




The problem with taking away Gravity's evasion down effect is that you lose a spell that could possibly land more easily than Distract on certain monsters (fire based, especially). And yes, this was effectively a nerf to Rdm because their Gravity II's -25 Evasion was nice enough to be noticeable and worthwhile, and Rdm needs all the love it can get right now. It's more of a slap to a face because we weren't told of this until the update actually hit.


You were saying??

And your points about Mordant Rime and Rudra's Storm are entirely beside the point because you created an entire thread to complain about RDM.

I'm not contributing anything? I've only explained to you multiple times why the decision was made to remove the evasion down from Gravity. If you don't want to listen to me then you can at least listen to the Dev Team who has responded to this multiple times.

I'm pretty sure Gravity is still a utility spell because it lowers a monster's movement speed. And you keep mentioning this extra -25 evasion you would have if Gravity had not been nerfed, but time and time again you fail to understand that Distract's potency was calculated with this change in mind. You would have gotten a lower potency spell. But hey if you want to cast two spells in order to have the same effect as one, then that is your prerogative.

And I know you are desperate to prove your point, but do not make up things I never said. Never did I say you'd have the -108 evasion on NM's and I never said you'd have it up full time either. I stated the range of possibilities.

And no, I know exactly what I meant. It is ice based so you are going to have a tough time landing it on fire based mobs, fire being strong to ice and all. You even mentioned fire-based mobs in your own post. . . And I did mean ice based mobs because you would probably have an easier time landing an ice spell on an ice based mob than you would a wind spell.

You complain about my reading comprehension? Good god. I was referring to the gap between how much RDM and /RDM can lower the monster's evasion, not their overall utility. Making up things that I never said really isn't helping your case at all. I've already said multiple times that there is a discussion to be had about whether or not these changes will improve RDM's standing. Acknowledging that though would poke yet another hole in your "argument," so I can see why you ignored it.

Multiplying numbers by 2 is easy, but I have a feeling the dev team put a little more thought into it when they came up with the numbers for Distract. You can ask them though.

If you want complain about something that you really have no business complaining about, have at it. Reason doesn't seem to effect you, so I happily withdraw from this conversation.

[Malithar]

So in regards to Rdm, you'd of preferred them to leave Gravity effects as is, and balance around Rdm's maintaining Distract II and Gravity II for the -50 evasion? Even though this would directly nerf Rdm's ability to grant -eva through their JAs due to being split between two different spells, granting a weaker result? Even though it'd just be more busy work for the same result (barring fighting a mob that resists one of the spells)?

It sucks it got hit, but really, if a dagger user is that upset over losing potentially -10 evasion on their WS, my heart goes out to em. They'll manage, just like anyone has who catches a swing of the nerf bat, no matter how big or small it may be.

[Creelo]

So in regards to Rdm, you'd of preferred them to leave Gravity effects as is, and balance around Rdm's maintaining Distract II and Gravity II for the -50 evasion? Even though this would directly nerf Rdm's ability to grant -eva through their JAs due to being split between two different spells, granting a weaker result? Even though it'd just be more busy work for the same result (barring fighting a mob that resists one of the spells)?


No. I'd have preferred the current Distract numbers (although -35 is still rather high for the Tier 1 version) in addition to Gravity II's -25 Evasion. I should have definitely been more clear about this, but that's what I felt I was saying this entire time. Like below


Yes, Rdm has Distract II now to make up for this. But why couldn't it also have Gravity II's Evasion down as well? If you don't need Gravity II's -25 Evasion, then don't cast it and stick with Distract II, thus enabling Gravity II to still be the utility spell they want it to be. But if you were to need it in addition to Distract II, well now you can't have that extra -25 Evasion down. That could have been a really nice feature of Rdm, something to make it really stand out in a party situation, but apparently it would have been too "unbalanced" (which is laughable given what other jobs like Cor/Geo/Brd can do and how unbalanced DD jobs currently are).

Maybe if Sasaraixx reads this, he'll truly understand what I've been saying. I totally understand that Distract's numbers were derived from Gravity losing its evasion down effect; I'm simply questioning why we couldn't have both Distract II's -50 Evasion and Gravity II's -25 Evasion in the first place.

And Sasaraixx, I could point out the holes in your previous post, but I'm sick of it. If you want me to, I will. But I'm just over it at this point.

Anyways, Job utility is truly what matters here, and has been a theme I've been getting at this entire thread. And in terms of Job utility for party play, Rdm, even after this update, still falls behind compared to similar jobs like Brd/Cor/Geo/Whm/Sch, largely because the new Tier 1 Rdm spells are available with /rdm and the large disparity between buffs and a Rdm's debuffs in general. But the gap would be slightly less if Gravity II still gave -25 Evasion in addition to Distract II's -50 base.

Edit: But Gravity II's evasion down is probably gone for good (if they did bring it back, I'm sure they'd lower Distract's evasion down for it, which is NOT something I want or have wanted with this thread) and so is the potential that I've been talking about this entire time, and it's not like the English forums truly make an impact on FFXI to begin with.

[Raydeus]

< *Is seen in the distance happily soloing content*

[Glamdring]

Creelo is right about the nerf to the mentioned WS-and a couple weapons no one uses anymore that had additional effect gravity for that matter. not that they were a huge part of end-game but they did have their place and that place is less valuable now. I think those WS need to be revisited to get their utility to pre-nerf levels, soloing on bard (which I don't have to do anymore as easy as it is to recap XP) was a hell of a lot easier with Mordant Rime.

and I actually did use gravity for the eva down effect, made skilling my sword easy and I didn't have to /dnc to do it. Distract might be better, but stacking the two would be even better. It's not like they last long enough to be an OP game changer if they did stack-on boss mobs I would expect maybe 3-4 hits from the faster DD (who tend not to hit as hard) max before both wore.

But while I can't speak for everyone my brd is enfeebling/debuffing like a madman, including stuff off my subjob, especially Finale, and I even throw in Lullabys to interrupt casting on mobs that aren't immune (and can be interrupted). Even in endgame, just toss the matching threnody 1st and you can land the debuff usually if the mob is resistant. Unfortunately, that's just one more reason rdm main isn't that much stronger than /rdm, and coupled with stuff off the brd main tends to mean I have more utility. Although I DO have to work my ass off to exercise it.

[Damane]

No. I'd have preferred the current Distract numbers (although -35 is still rather high for the Tier 1 version) in addition to Gravity II's -25 Evasion. I should have definitely been more clear about this, but that's what I felt I was saying this entire time. Like below



Maybe if Sasaraixx reads this, he'll truly understand what I've been saying. I totally understand that Distract's numbers were derived from Gravity losing its evasion down effect; I'm simply questioning why we couldn't have both Distract II's -50 Evasion and Gravity II's -25 Evasion in the first place.

And Sasaraixx, I could point out the holes in your previous post, but I'm sick of it. If you want me to, I will. But I'm just over it at this point.

Anyways, Job utility is truly what matters here, and has been a theme I've been getting at this entire thread. And in terms of Job utility for party play, Rdm, even after this update, still falls behind compared to similar jobs like Brd/Cor/Geo/Whm/Sch, largely because the new Tier 1 Rdm spells are available with /rdm and the large disparity between buffs and a Rdm's debuffs in general. But the gap would be slightly less if Gravity II still gave -25 Evasion in addition to Distract II's -50 base.

Edit: But Gravity II's evasion down is probably gone for good (if they did bring it back, I'm sure they'd lower Distract's evasion down for it, which is NOT something I want or have wanted with this thread) and so is the potential that I've been talking about this entire time, and it's not like the English forums truly make an impact on FFXI to begin with.

I'd trade in a gravity eva loss anytime for a spell that isnt quiet as much resisted on mobs ¬.¬ i dont see your point in your brabbling because of gravity nerf.

[Babekeke]

It's a fair point to say that the WS with gravity effects have lost out due to this update, but the spell gravity was not nerfed... it was broken down into 2 separate elements, one of which was doubled in potency.

[Creelo]

No one reads. My message is simple: I would have preferred SE keep Distract I/IIs numbers as they currently are (-35/-50 base) along with Gravity I/II still giving Evasion -10/-25. This would only help Rdm and this would prevent the nerf on WSs like Mordant Rime/Rudra's Storm.

It's literally that simple. I wanted to just leave this thread altogether but the fact that people just don't get it boggles my mind.

[Malithar]

No one reads. My message is simple: I would have preferred SE keep Distract I/IIs numbers as they currently are (-35/-50 base) along with Gravity I/II still giving Evasion -10/-25. This would only help Rdm and this would prevent the nerf on WSs like Mordant Rime/Rudra's Storm.

It's literally that simple. I wanted to just leave this thread altogether but the fact that people just don't get it boggles my mind.

It was gotten weeks ago. SE choose not to go that route. Does that boggle your mind that much?

For what its worth, if it was changed as you say, you'd still have /Rdms giving -45 eva, compared to Rdms giving -75. -30 more eva compared to the current -15 more doesn't magically make that more desirable. Specially when a Geo gives several times that difference in -eva, and they're still not magically wanted.

[Trangnai]

When it comes down to it. I think he is just stating a simple fact of "why even do this?". Meanwhile we are all sitting here defending SEs decision. Some of the best WSes and JAs had Gravity Linked to them for the evasion down effect of the status (because Melee Jobs are really going to kite, right?). If the nerf wasn't done these skills would have more use on top of rdm being able to bring more to the table.

Creelo is simply trying to make a point and people are running in like "Well the numbers say this!" and his only response can be "You only have those numbers thanks to me...". I think while we all understand and stand by SEs decision we also haven't simply asked why it was even necessary to begin with. None of us understand how a lil more evasion down is considered broken by SE. I fail to understand myself. But the removal of Gravity's Eva down effect doesn't hinder us too much.

[Creelo]

It was gotten weeks ago. SE choose not to go that route. Does that boggle your mind that much?

For what its worth, if it was changed as you say, you'd still have /Rdms giving -45 eva, compared to Rdms giving -75. -30 more eva compared to the current -15 more doesn't magically make that more desirable. Specially when a Geo gives several times that difference in -eva, and they're still not magically wanted.

Was it? According to the last few posts by others before my post today, it seemed quite the opposite. And anyways dude, at this point I really don't care if they change it back lol, because I know they won't (I've even stated in this thread they probably wouldn't). I'm just tired of people not understanding my perspective, when I personally feel it's not very difficult to grasp.


I would have preferred SE keep Distract I/IIs numbers as they currently are (-35/-50 base) along with Gravity I/II still giving Evasion -10/-25. This would only help Rdm and this would prevent the nerf on WSs like Mordant Rime/Rudra's Storm.

I was just simply stating my opinion; I truly cannot break it down more. What I would have preferred is nothing but a buff for Rdms and /rdm alike over the current potency and options of Gravity/Distract, yet there are still people that argue against it. This boggles my mind.

Malithar, my mind is not boggled at all over SE's response or balance logic lol. If you actually read my post before jumping the gun to attack it, maybe you'd understand where my frustration is directed.

And finally, I've never said this kind of adjustment would automatically guarantee a party spot for Rdm; I've just said it would be a nice extra tool for Rdm over what they currently have, thus ultimately helping their job, especially in party play. And -30 is twice as big as -15... that's a pretty significant jump in the gap lol

[Creelo]

I think while we all understand and stand by SEs decision we also haven't simply asked why it was even necessary to begin with. None of us understand how a lil more evasion down is considered broken by SE. I fail to understand myself. But the removal of Gravity's Eva down effect doesn't hinder us too much.

This is basically it, I think. For me, I'm just questioning if it would have been a big deal had they gone with Distract's -35/-50 in addition to Gravity still giving an evasion down effect. Like did a situation like this ever cross their minds during developing these new Rdm spells? Considering what other jobs can bring, would that extra bit of evasion down be that broken?

Since SE has clearly stated that Distract's number couldn't even exist without Gravity losing its Evasion down and they aren't going to reinstate Gravity's Evasion down too, it really is all moot. I just find their "balancing" act ridiculous. And ultimately like Trangnai has said, it really isn't that big of a deal; it just irked me some when reading the patch notes weeks ago.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone during this thread.

[Babekeke]

Some of the best WSes and JAs had Gravity Linked to them for the evasion down effect of the status (because Melee Jobs are really going to kite, right?).

Shadowbind says hi.

[Damane]

This is basically it, I think. For me, I'm just questioning if it would have been a big deal had they gone with Distract's -35/-50 in addition to Gravity still giving an evasion down effect. Like did a situation like this ever cross their minds during developing these new Rdm spells? Considering what other jobs can bring, would that extra bit of evasion down be that broken?

Since SE has clearly stated that Distract's number couldn't even exist without Gravity losing its Evasion down and they aren't going to reinstate Gravity's Evasion down too, it really is all moot. I just find their "balancing" act ridiculous. And ultimately like Trangnai has said, it really isn't that big of a deal; it just irked me some when reading the patch notes weeks ago.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone during this thread.

distract II -50 eva is comparable to Blade Madrigal (when cast with fully upgraded gjallarhorn no less) or 1 Geo/indi-Precision. frazzle has probably the same potency as geo/indi-languor. Saboteur distract II is -110 eva (every 5 min!), thats basicly almost 2x soul voice madrigals cast with a gjallarhorn (+5 songs!). I think SEs decision to remove gravitys evasion down while makeing distract land on almost anything is pretty reasonable and a good decision by itself. Would you rather have seen distract not land on almost anything but keep the -evasion on gravity?

all they need to do now is make Temper castable on PT members and make Afflatus Solace work as a SJ and RDM would be in a very very very good competitiv spot against whm or as support role against cor/brd/geo.

[Demonjustin]

I'd be ok with a Temper II spell that can be cast on other players, not Temper itself however.

[Protey]

i'd rather have an entemper effect where other players in your party get it when you strike the enemy. Less casting, more meleeing!

[Demonjustin]

That works too, though it'd likely take away from en-spells as a result, something I'd rather them fix than replace honestly. : /