Do people start learning their job at LV99?

[Maikeru_Sylph]

I've noticed that many players just join abyssea worm parties to level up to 99, something that requires no skill or knowledge of your job whatsoever. Therefore, I have to ask, do people start learning their job at LV99? If so, there must be a bunch of noobs at endgame.

[Sixtythree]

If you use abyssea to get to 99 you'll likely need to skillup. While doing so you make macros and learn the abilities of your job. Use the job in easy content until you feel comfortable enough and have decent enough gear to participate in difficult stuff. It's really not hard to learn a job if you have a general understanding of the battle system and or have seen what others commonly do with the job.

Not sure if I'm feeding a troll or answered a genuine question but either way ~

[WoW]

From a personal experience; I have a general idea how to use any job. Most of the JAs, spells, and traits have descriptions. Hence I just put two and two together. I burned several jobs to 99, but can effectively play any. As far as in endgame scenarios; just read up on the bosses traits, tendencies, and special abilities; they should have no problem if they are geared up to par. Experience is the best teacher of course.

We were all endgame noobs at one point, exp mobs and delve bosses are two different beast, hence someone whom is knowledgeable of their job will still be clueless if they are not aware of boss tendencies and special abilities. For instance, a new player whom whom is great in delve may not have bothered with NI or NNI, hence may be a noob (Inexperienced). Some may be very knowledgeable of their job, but inexperienced in specific endgame content. XI is not that hard though, just choose any of the golden child job and they should be fine hehe^^

I see what you are saying though; there is alot of burning going on and i am guilty of it as well. If they put in the work, these indivuals should be fine; also, some may be veterans or Alts.

[Demonjustin]

Yes some people in endgame are noobs but there is a sort of stepping stone system in the way content is setup that really makes it so that not many unknowledgeable players make it through the cracks. Normally as people progress through these things they become better players and when arriving at the end are good enough to participate and pull their own weight. Also as it's been said once you play a while you generally can figure out how other jobs work anyways so leveling them quickly really doesn't impact your performance, I for instance haven't ever played GEO or leveled it but if I leveled it to 99 tomorrow I'd know how to play the job for the most part just from reading about it's abilities and knowing other GEOs.

[dasva]

A good player can learn a lot about jobs just by seeing them played. So someone that is already in endgame who then levels up a job and gears it up should be able to have a good grasp of it and will go for the fastest method. In fact I've definitely seen people play jobs in endgame for the first time better than career people. You'd be amazed how many mages think it's too much of a hassle to haste melees or brds to actually ya know keep buffs on people etc. But good players will know to do that even if they had never played it.

[Babekeke]

Most people who aren't retarded will only burn to ~78, then grab the cruor gear and start to join in and help the alliance out while getting the last few levels. Even with how fast it is from 78 - 99 you can learn a lot about the job, and party mechanics. If you're burning a mage, you can join in anywhere from ~50+ though most 119 people now don't even need a cure, but haste is always nice to be buffed with. Or whatever geo spells/songs/rolls you may have learned already.

[Camiie]

I've noticed that many players just join abyssea worm parties to level up to 99, something that requires no skill or knowledge of your job whatsoever. Therefore, I have to ask, do people start learning their job at LV99? If so, there must be a bunch of noobs at endgame.

There are a lot of noobs at endgame just as there have always been even when leveling was "hard." But since you likely won't accept that fact I'll just tell you what you want to hear instead.

Yes, everyone who doesn't follow your path to success is a failure and a noob. Yours is the only way, and the world will be a better place once we all start living like you.

[Feary]

There are a lot of noobs at endgame just as there have always been even when leveling was "hard." But since you likely won't accept that fact I'll just tell you what you want to hear instead.

Yes, everyone who doesn't follow your path to success is a failure and a noob. Yours is the only way, and the world will be a better place once we all start living like you.

how miserably can you be the make a comment like that lol

anyways, as nice as some ppl want to put it, the answer to op question is yes. yes because that is the way the game has changed. you dont need to know anything to get to 99 and get to "end game". the only filter that prevents players from just be carried thru content is linkshell and shouts that require gear (for the assumption of skill level). to do it

unfortunately players now believe that just reading the job's ja or spell description and knowing vaguely what it does makes them a decent player. they also believe that it sould be enough for them to win the game. when in fact it not, never has been and never will be.

knowing that a spell like stun will prevent a mob from acting for a second~/interrupting its current action is one thing, but to know how to maximum the spell itself and which abilities/spell you should stun is another beast in itself. it seems something that challenging is believe to be absolute blasphemy. after standing 12 hours a day, 100 hours a week for the last 10 years in a minimium wage retail job to come home and spend their hard earn money to fail at a video game they choose to play for is ridicouslous. its game and when its so challenging that they have do have to do middle math for their gear and they have to focus on game mechanics for more than 45 mins is absurd.

so they push to 30 then 99, read a few descriptions, and master their skills from spark gathered. hoping that one day they will have all the nice shines, never realizing there is more to the game then just the items they strive for. very rarely you get some who passes thru the cracks , pushing to learn how to maximize their gear for damage, for thier ja or spells. who wants to learn how a mob behaves, how to use a your job to counteract it and manage things like mp, enmity, status ailments, buffs, and dare i say debuffs.

reading the spell description is like kindergarden, you have to learn not only what the ability/spell does but when and how to use it in the party setup and strat, there is distances, directions, enimity balance, defensive tactics and when to start and stop damage. players dont even know how to wipe and reset properly. being aware that if i aoe, im now on the hate list, i can go on and on,

so yes most players are noobs, who never get past this curve, and those who do become so full of themselves they dont want to player with other ppl and teach them.

granted most ppl never want/open enough past thier own ego to learn in the first place.

[WoW]

Mission Accomplished^^ Now we are at one each others throats hehe.

Gonna leave this one, troll senses were tingling from the jump; deuces.

[Maikeru_Sylph]

First of all, I'm not trolling and I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I haven't played this game in a long time and it's changed a lot. There are some changes that I like, while others I find are questionable, such as this. Getting to the highest level doesn't mean much anymore. It's just another job you got to 99. I would argue that someone that went through what they did in the past to get to 75, did know their job more. Just yesterday, someone in my linkshell who got to 66 in less than a day was asking about skills he got at level 10, skills that one would come to master and understand over time, not within minutes or even hours completely. Not to mention how to use those skills with other people. You are supposed to know your job and skills by the time you reach max level, not at max level.

IMO, Abyssea has ruined this game. Where are the people to level with? There are none. Now I have to exp with lifeless trust NPCS, if I don't won't to spam worms in Abyssea. No relationships to be made on the way to max level. It's a cold, lonely experience. Before it was amazing. Everything meant something. Now, it's just a race to max level for endgame content like every other game out there.

[Demonjustin]

IMO, Abyssea has ruined this game. Where are the people to level with? There are none. Now I have to exp with lifeless trust NPCS, if I don't won't to spam worms in Abyssea. No relationships to be made on the way to max level. It's a cold, lonely experience. Before it was amazing. Everything meant something. Now, it's just a race to max level for endgame content like every other game out there.This experience isn't gone, it's still there but in a different form. Before you learned as you leveled but it was mostly a slow and tedious grind against the same types of mobs to achieve a higher level but in the end it wasn't the grind that made it fun but rather the relationships that were formed along the way. Today this same experience can be had but it's not the exact same way. Now days you begin these types of bonds in random encounters such as worms or shout groups, but over time it's easy to form long lasting and fun friendships with people just as in the past. I've many friends I've made over the years via both of these methods, and those relationships are why I'm still playing this game.

As for having to level with Trust NPCs, this is part of why I say Abyssea wasn't so bad. The fact there are so few people who level alone or with Trust rather than via Abyssea is more of an example to me that people simply didn't enjoy leveling as much as they thought they did, but rather they enjoyed the people around them while they did it. If people really wanted to level then they could do that just the same today as years ago, but the connections to other players, that's not there anymore. The only real change made is the content you do now by compare to before, before you leveled and met people, now you do casual/endgame events to meet people, and in the end it's just as well off in my opinion.

[Feary]

First of all, I'm not trolling and I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I haven't played this game in a long time and it's changed a lot. There are some changes that I like, while others I find are questionable, such as this. Getting to the highest level doesn't mean much anymore. It's just another job you got to 99. I would argue that someone that went through what they did in the past to get to 75, did know their job more. Just yesterday, someone in my linkshell who got to 66 in less than a day was asking about skills he got at level 10, skills that one would come to master and understand over time, not within minutes or even hours completely. Not to mention how to use those skills with other people. You are supposed to know your job and skills by the time you reach max level, not at max level.

IMO, Abyssea has ruined this game. Where are the people to level with? There are none. Now I have to exp with lifeless trust NPCS, if I don't won't to spam worms in Abyssea. No relationships to be made on the way to max level. It's a cold, lonely experience. Before it was amazing. Everything meant something. Now, it's just a race to max level for endgame content like every other game out there.

well said.

however its like preaching to the choir.

2/10 players today would understand this.

we are way past this time, and its no longer about community.

imo the only thing we have left in this game that is glorious is the game mechanics, battles strats and maximizing ones job. yet ppl hate that so much and whine endlessly about.

i personally can spend days,weeks,months, tweaking a job, earning gil, spending it on relics and upgrading (even for jobs i never play) gear. simply pushing past just winning a fight. i guess since i rarely lose passing that hump, i dont have to worry about such things as others. however, appreciating the difference levels of techniques it takes the play pld vs rng vs sam vs brd vs whm. etc. you dont find players like that anymore.

[Raydeus]

If only Abyssea had been lvl 75 instead of 30...

But what ifs don't matter, so I'm just glad I don't play much with other people anymore because at my advanced RDM age I have little patience for leeches.

[Behemothx]

I've noticed that many players just join abyssea worm parties to level up to 99, something that requires no skill or knowledge of your job whatsoever. Therefore, I have to ask, do people start learning their job at LV99? If so, there must be a bunch of noobs at endgame.

Game is stupid easy. If you need to whack random mobs the slow path for 3 months to learn, then it sucks to be you.

Also, you're 3 years late. There's 100 threads about this already.

[Maikeru_Sylph]

Game is stupid easy because of Abyssea. This was once one of the only MMOs that offered a challenge. Yes, I am 3 years late, but that still doesn't make it right. And, no it shouldn't take someone 3 months to learn, but they shouldn't be getting 99 in 2 days either.

[Doombringer]

anybody remember before ilvl when delve was "too hard"? yah... pretty sure that was after abyssea.

how many people, even NOW are doing battlefields on VD? clearing all of the delves without beading any of the nms? i bet none of the people talking about how the game is "too easy" are.

seriously guys, getting to the level cap was never hard, it was time consuming. even the "hard" maat fights were often dodged by just leveling something else first. where does this sense of superiority come from?

it took me about 2 years to get my first 75 back when i was in high school playing on a ps2. clearly that makes ME the best player, so get on my level or get over it. (see how ludicrous that sounds?)

[Demonjustin]

I think we can all agree leveling is too fast when people use Abyssea to leech 30~70. Personally I think that most would say the old XP rate was far too slow, and personally I also think the current XP rate past 50 is too slow. If XP didn't slope the way it does in the late 40s and early 50s then I'd actually level outside of Abyssea myself. The fact it takes so long when reaching those levels and the battles themselves get so much longer really kills my want to level at all. Look at this character for instance, starting out I went from level 1 on RDM to level 50 in a matter of roughly 3~4 days, to me that's really not that bad. After I hit 50 it has taken me about a month to get to 69, not because I didn't have time, but because I've been so bored with it and it takes so long to level that I just can't be bothered to spend time on it. I'm only counting days I play on the character mind you, not since his creation. If they changed those things, I think you'd see more people leveling outside of Abyssea, myself as well.

[Stompa]

FFXI is a bit like "Othello" the 1980's boardgame which had the sales slogan "a minute to learn, a lifetime to master." In FFXI you can burn to 99 and play the job at a serviceable standard after a fairly short time, but you can always tell when somebody has played the job for ten years because they have the "split second timing" and reflexes that you only get by living inside a job for years. Also it takes a while to get the perfect macros that suit different situations, and to be able to hit macros without actually thinking about it. Its not really a FFXI thing, its true of everything in life, even chopping firewood - you can give an axe to a guy who's never seen wood before and he can chop it up, but a man who has cut wood all his life will work 10x faster and more efficiently.
The job I notice this most on is WHM. I have a WHM friend who has played only WHM for over a decade, and she casts spells automatically, anticipates everything, and this is something that only comes from years of mastery.

[Feary]

anybody remember before ilvl when delve was "too hard"? yah... pretty sure that was after abyssea.

how many people, even NOW are doing battlefields on VD? clearing all of the delves without beading any of the nms? i bet none of the people talking about how the game is "too easy" are.

seriously guys, getting to the level cap was never hard, it was time consuming. even the "hard" maat fights were often dodged by just leveling something else first. where does this sense of superiority come from?

it took me about 2 years to get my first 75 back when i was in high school playing on a ps2. clearly that makes ME the best player, so get on my level or get over it. (see how ludicrous that sounds?)

2 years? well shit that is ludicrous. it took 3 months, maybe 5 if you played smn or bst as your first job.


i mean seriously if htey wer like, ok we are going to release a new leveling system targeting, 1-99ish, leaving abyssea for merits only.

how many players do you think s.e will lose, because every player today is accustom to this level of "difficulty". Also who is going to newly join a 10 year old game mmo game, (not to mention when they have 14). with such mechanics. that require them to exp in 6 man parties again.

what serious player isnt 99 now anyways? overall it would be a waste of time to develop.

the only reasonable solution, would be content that was again leveled capped us at levels 30 40 50 60 70 75, had tiered upgrades, gave comparable exp/ dare i say capacity points.

where would as 99 players be able to benefit from going down and playing with lower level players.
vice versa.

something like bcnms(since they are all useless now) instances, simply update the drops to be like salvage to a full on system.

for example, a level 50 bc drops level 50 gears, that are useful for that level. have them scaled from 99+ stats arrays, so we can use them in said bcs, then when we are done with it we can use them to update to the next tier, bc60 so on and so forth. like we do in salvage add level 35 45 etc gear

[Puck]

2 years? well shit that is ludicrous. it took 3 months, maybe 5 if you played smn or bst as your first job.100% wrong. Did you play the same game as us back then? Back before ToAU came out?

It took an average of 4 hours to get a party, get to the camp, and gain a little Exp. That's if you were lucky enough to get an invite that fast. It's irrational to expect people to devote such a large chunk of time to one game in a day, especially those who work or study for half the day. For most people, spending 4-8 hours on this game just to gain a level or two just isn't reasonable. That's what this game used to be like.

I started playing the year CoP came out, didn't get my first 75 till WotG came out. I played as DRK with a static PLD partner, and we usually had to make our own parties since the same job-exclusionary bullshit that exists in endgame today was in every Exp party back then, and it was much harder getting a party to invite two people rather than just one (on non-bandwagon jobs to boot).

Forming parties usually went something like this:
*Invite BRD.*
BRD: "WTF just 2 people? Invite me when you have 5." *BRD drops.*
*Invite WHM.*
WHM: "WTF no BRD? Invite me when you have a BRD." *WHM drops.*
*Invite WAR.*
WAR: "WTF no BRD and WHM? Invite me when you get your shit together."

Exp parties in the old days were total bullshit. And solo/lowman was even worse, since EP-EM mobs gave shitty Exp and still took forever to kill. Oh, and there we no Exp rings back in the day, either.

It was an awful experience. I know SO many people that tried to play this game and quit due to how painful it was leveling up to 75. If it weren't as bad as it was we wouldn't have lost so many potential players back then.

Abyssea was probably the best thing to every happen to this game, and not just Exp, but everything else the add-ons offered. The problem was, Abyssea came too late in the game's lifespan. The same can be said of other things like FoV/GoV, Campaign, increased Exp from regular mobs, Trust, etc.. It took SE way too long to realize how the dismal rate of Exp gain was ruining the gameplay experience by making leveling feel like going to WORK all day.

Good riddance, oldschool Exp parties.

[Feary]

100% wrong. Did you play the same game as us back then? Back before ToAU came out?

It took an average of 4 hours to get a party, get to the camp, and gain a little Exp. That's if you were lucky enough to get an invite that fast. It's irrational to expect people to devote such a large chunk of time to one game in a day, especially those who work or study for half the day. For most people, spending 4-8 hours on this game just to gain a level or two just isn't reasonable. That's what this game used to be like.

I started playing the year CoP came out, didn't get my first 75 till WotG came out. I played as DRK with a static PLD partner, and we usually had to make our own parties since the same job-exclusionary bullshit that exists in endgame today was in every Exp party back then, and it was much harder getting a party to invite two people rather than just one (on non-bandwagon jobs to boot).

Forming parties usually went something like this:
*Invite BRD.*
BRD: "WTF just 2 people? Invite me when you have 5." *BRD drops.*
*Invite WHM.*
WHM: "WTF no BRD? Invite me when you have a BRD." *WHM drops.*
*Invite WAR.*
WAR: "WTF no BRD and WHM? Invite me when you get your shit together."

Exp parties in the old days were total bullshit. And solo/lowman was even worse, since EP-EM mobs gave shitty Exp and still took forever to kill. Oh, and there we no Exp rings back in the day, either.

It was an awful experience. I know SO many people that tried to play this game and quit due to how painful it was leveling up to 75. If it weren't as bad as it was we wouldn't have lost so many potential players back then.

Abyssea was probably the best thing to every happen to this game, and not just Exp, but everything else the add-ons offered. The problem was, Abyssea came too late in the game's lifespan. The same can be said of other things like FoV/GoV, Campaign, increased Exp from regular mobs, Trust, etc.. It took SE way too long to realize how the dismal rate of Exp gain was ruining the gameplay experience by making leveling feel like going to WORK all day.

Good riddance, oldschool Exp parties.

yes i have been playing since before ps2 release. i started over after i got tired of being a manthra thf (for the dex trait), sept 2004, made a hume because it was most balanced.
by January 2005 i was 75 whm, with all subs lolsmn, blm hahardm, had all my AF1, farmed all my scrolls and then started a dynamis linkshell with some friends to get my next logic goal af2.

our first run dynamis sandy was Saturday Feb 12.

yes i was 15 and in high school on ps2, running grown man through this game. a linkshell that only broke when they announced neo dynamis. however by then i had already retired.

i can give you more details if you like.

and the example you gave were post toau after the discovery of bird camps. solo to 10, VD to 20, qufim to 25, yhoator to 33. 33+ blm rdm whm tank 2 dds (namely a thf for SA VB) to make a Skillchain for MB, or a bone party in KRT. when cop came out, we got bibiki bay, and was happy to cap at 3k per hour exp on a good day.

4 months before s.e announced abyssea, i completed maats cap with out lolabyssea. i know how to exp. i know what im talking about.

i know everything you are talking about and could say ahout the troubles of every era in this game. so please dont insult me, yes i was there, and was not exaggerating when i said it took 3-5 month to get to 75.

[Babekeke]

yes i was 15 and in high school on ps2, running grown man through this game.

I'm sorry that you failed high school.

[Puck]

Babekeke, you slay me. XD

Feary, what you described was a life devoted to this game, putting WAY more hours into it on a daily basis than the average human can manage. Just because you could dump so much of yourself into this game all day every day doesn't mean everyone else should've been expected to do so in a similar fashion. It was far too much to ask of most people, and that's why hardly any stuck around through all of that mess.

[Calintzpso]

http://waffles-production.com/public/AbysseaLosVegasGif.gif

What Happens in Abyssea La Theine, Stays In Abyssea La Theine.

Except Chronic AFKing, That will get you Black balled.

Wallpaper/HD Version : http://waffles-production.com/public/AbysseaLosVegas.png

[Feary]

I'm sorry that you failed high school.

i didnt fail at high school academically or socially. i dont know how you have come to that conclusion based on what you've quoted or anything that i said. i was apart of all the staples of high school. Voted most popular and best smile(lol), went to prom with a bad ass chick. did afterschool activities like studying robotics at Columbia university (i live in nyc), and volunteered during the summers at camp for kids with real social/medical disorders in the midwest. i still communicate with friends from HS and these extracurricular activities and camp, even 5 years after graduating college.

anyways going back to the op subject, ive done very well for myself, inside and out this game. the point was, the game was never hard/challenging/miserable as yall seem to make it out to be and today is a cake walk.

[Feary]

Babekeke, you slay me. XD

Feary, what you described was a life devoted to this game, putting WAY more hours into it on a daily basis than the average human can manage. Just because you could dump so much of yourself into this game all day every day doesn't mean everyone else should've been expected to do so in a similar fashion. It was far too much to ask of most people, and that's why hardly any stuck around through all of that mess.

although i dont agree that ive devoted my life to this game, i can understand that not everyone has the same ability. where we differ is, i believe you get what you put in. when i only have 10 hours a week to play, i make it work, enjoy it and im content with that. i dont need more. i find something improve on and can do in the time i have. there is so much in what all the game has to offer. its why i have 5 100+ crafts. or complete all missions, etc. i dont whine or give up. i dont pick and choose to hate content because its not for me. its there and was made for me. gaming is all a purpose of a time sink, just have to learn how to push through.

if you cant put it this level you shouldn't complain about not having the same success. you cant complain about being a bum(noob) if you dont get off your ass and get a job(gear up a job), you cant expect the government(s.e) to just hand/adjust everything for you so you can live easier. life is about the journey not the destination, if you cant fight through then what is the point? go outside and have a life.

s.e has already accommodated this mentally to the point we have a whole new game and lost the epic journey we had. yet its not enough.

The game shouldnt be scaled to the Average player expectation it should exceed them so you will always have content that is emerging. like getting from 1-75 was vs today. etc. when the content was bigger, we focused could more on the people, not the drops as we all had the same uphill battle.

now content is so easily reward that we fly thru it and dont need to rely on anything but our alts and maybe a handful of picks.

[Maikeru_Sylph]

100% wrong. Did you play the same game as us back then? Back before ToAU came out?

It took an average of 4 hours to get a party, get to the camp, and gain a little Exp. That's if you were lucky enough to get an invite that fast. It's irrational to expect people to devote such a large chunk of time to one game in a day, especially those who work or study for half the day. For most people, spending 4-8 hours on this game just to gain a level or two just isn't reasonable. That's what this game used to be like.

I started playing the year CoP came out, didn't get my first 75 till WotG came out. I played as DRK with a static PLD partner, and we usually had to make our own parties since the same job-exclusionary bullshit that exists in endgame today was in every Exp party back then, and it was much harder getting a party to invite two people rather than just one (on non-bandwagon jobs to boot).

Forming parties usually went something like this:
*Invite BRD.*
BRD: "WTF just 2 people? Invite me when you have 5." *BRD drops.*
*Invite WHM.*
WHM: "WTF no BRD? Invite me when you have a BRD." *WHM drops.*
*Invite WAR.*
WAR: "WTF no BRD and WHM? Invite me when you get your shit together."

Exp parties in the old days were total bullshit. And solo/lowman was even worse, since EP-EM mobs gave shitty Exp and still took forever to kill. Oh, and there we no Exp rings back in the day, either.

It was an awful experience. I know SO many people that tried to play this game and quit due to how painful it was leveling up to 75. If it weren't as bad as it was we wouldn't have lost so many potential players back then.

Abyssea was probably the best thing to every happen to this game, and not just Exp, but everything else the add-ons offered. The problem was, Abyssea came too late in the game's lifespan. The same can be said of other things like FoV/GoV, Campaign, increased Exp from regular mobs, Trust, etc.. It took SE way too long to realize how the dismal rate of Exp gain was ruining the gameplay experience by making leveling feel like going to WORK all day.

Good riddance, oldschool Exp parties.

Ok fine, good riddance to oldschool exp parties, but 300-450k hr at level 30? That's ridiculous. Hell I can't even get that much exp an hr in WoW or FFXIV. What's the point of even having levels to begin with? Why should I work for anything at all, right? Just give it all to me when I start and let's see how long I sub for.

[Maikeru_Sylph]

This experience isn't gone, it's still there but in a different form. Before you learned as you leveled but it was mostly a slow and tedious grind against the same types of mobs to achieve a higher level but in the end it wasn't the grind that made it fun but rather the relationships that were formed along the way. Today this same experience can be had but it's not the exact same way. Now days you begin these types of bonds in random encounters such as worms or shout groups, but over time it's easy to form long lasting and fun friendships with people just as in the past. I've many friends I've made over the years via both of these methods, and those relationships are why I'm still playing this game.

As for having to level with Trust NPCs, this is part of why I say Abyssea wasn't so bad. The fact there are so few people who level alone or with Trust rather than via Abyssea is more of an example to me that people simply didn't enjoy leveling as much as they thought they did, but rather they enjoyed the people around them while they did it. If people really wanted to level then they could do that just the same today as years ago, but the connections to other players, that's not there anymore. The only real change made is the content you do now by compare to before, before you leveled and met people, now you do casual/endgame events to meet people, and in the end it's just as well off in my opinion.

You say that you form lasting relationships with people that you do worm parties with, right? Well how do you when everyone is AFK? You don't. You can't compare the relationships you formed doing missions, quests, subjobs, unlocking areas, etc. Now, you have to do all that solo. And, if you're on a dead server, no one is there to help you. There's also nothing on the AH, so good luck getting armor. You basically have to level straight to 99 so you can solo all the old content that everyone used to do in a party.

Also, you saying everyone doing Abyssea must mean they never liked the original way of leveling, is like saying everyone eats at Mcdonald's because the food tastes good. Everyone eats at Mcdonald's because it's cheap. Everyone is doing Abyssea now because it's convenient and they have no choice. Nothing compares to the EXP/hr you get from Abyssea.

[Demonjustin]

You say that you form lasting relationships with people that you do worm parties with, right? Well how do you when everyone is AFK? You don't. You can't compare the relationships you formed doing missions, quests, subjobs, unlocking areas, etc. Now, you have to do all that solo. And, if you're on a dead server, no one is there to help you. There's also nothing on the AH, so good luck getting armor. You basically have to level straight to 99 so you can solo all the old content that everyone used to do in a party.Everyone's not afk. Lazy people who don't care to do anything or people who are busy doing other things are afk, those aren't the people I talk to obviously. I've made many friends through various events including Abyssea in worm parties by talking to the people in the party itself who are actually moving around and helping. Many of these people were people who were newer and needed a LS as well so I more than happily added them to the bunch. Today I don't goto worm parties often but when I do I often times see people I already know there, and on occasion I still meet a new friend while I slaughter the worms for my merit points so I can be on my way. I made this character that I'm posting on now as a way to look through the eyes of a new player of today, someone who just started, albeit with an advantage of knowledge and such no new player would have. I've been making it work as I've gone along and I've soloed almost everything I have on this character with the exception of XP where I occasionally partied with my best friend or GF so I could do something with them at the same time. That said I'm not about to lie about it, no, I've made no new friends on this character thus far that I can think of, I've partied with no players I didn't already know, and I can't say there is an abundance of players or armor that a new player will come across like in the past. All of this is very much true. But to say that in today's game you can't form these same relationships is false because while they're not formed the same way, through the leveling process, they are still able to be formed through things such as endgame events or even more casual events. I honestly could take the time to sit here and list off a number of people I met through various events or parties but it's fairly pointless because in the end if these words aren't getting the point across I don't know why anecdotal evidence would.


Also, you saying everyone doing Abyssea must mean they never liked the original way of leveling, is like saying everyone eats at Mcdonald's because the food tastes good. Everyone eats at Mcdonald's because it's cheap. Everyone is doing Abyssea now because it's convenient and they have no choice. Nothing compares to the EXP/hr you get from Abyssea.Saying people eat Mcdonalds because it's cheap isn't the same, now if you said it's because it's convenient then sure, convenience for convenience is a fair comparison. While people eat at Mcdonalds because it's cheap people do Abyssea because it's quick, people can't afford the money for better places like they can't necessarily afford the time for leveling. If people were rich and still ate at Mcdonalds, I'd say they like the food or are simply cheap, I'd say the same of people who leech in Abyssea if they have the time to go level slowly but still complain they want to level slowly. Either you're a massive hypocrite or you don't have the time, that or enough people don't want to level in old style parties to make one. Take a pick of what you are. I know plenty of people who say they miss old style parties, they make them still with friends and LS members, if people ask to join them it's not like they turn people down. I have leveled with both my best friend and GF as I mentioned before by doing old style parties in areas like Beaucedine Glacier and in Qufim Island and while we make use of Trusts to fill the gaps it's not as though we'd turn other players down if they asked to join, but the thing is no one does, not that many people like them. I don't see the numbers to support the idea that there are a ton of people who want to level like before and just can't, rather I see a bunch of people all over the place who have said they'd never have leveled X-job with oldschool XP even though today it's one of their favorites.

[Maikeru_Sylph]

Everyone's not afk. Lazy people who don't care to do anything or people who are busy doing other things are afk, those aren't the people I talk to obviously. I've made many friends through various events including Abyssea in worm parties by talking to the people in the party itself who are actually moving around and helping. Many of these people were people who were newer and needed a LS as well so I more than happily added them to the bunch. Today I don't goto worm parties often but when I do I often times see people I already know there, and on occasion I still meet a new friend while I slaughter the worms for my merit points so I can be on my way. I made this character that I'm posting on now as a way to look through the eyes of a new player of today, someone who just started, albeit with an advantage of knowledge and such no new player would have. I've been making it work as I've gone along and I've soloed almost everything I have on this character with the exception of XP where I occasionally partied with my best friend or GF so I could do something with them at the same time. That said I'm not about to lie about it, no, I've made no new friends on this character thus far that I can think of, I've partied with no players I didn't already know, and I can't say there is an abundance of players or armor that a new player will come across like in the past. All of this is very much true. But to say that in today's game you can't form these same relationships is false because while they're not formed the same way, through the leveling process, they are still able to be formed through things such as endgame events or even more casual events. I honestly could take the time to sit here and list off a number of people I met through various events or parties but it's fairly pointless because in the end if these words aren't getting the point across I don't know why anecdotal evidence would.


Yes, you can form relationships. However, the quality, as well as the process by which you formed those relationships, are significantly different.


Saying people eat Mcdonalds because it's cheap isn't the same, now if you said it's because it's convenient then sure, convenience for convenience is a fair comparison. While people eat at Mcdonalds because it's cheap people do Abyssea because it's quick, people can't afford the money for better places like they can't necessarily afford the time for leveling. If people were rich and still ate at Mcdonalds, I'd say they like the food or are simply cheap, I'd say the same of people who leech in Abyssea if they have the time to go level slowly but still complain they want to level slowly. Either you're a massive hypocrite or you don't have the time, that or enough people don't want to level in old style parties to make one. Take a pick of what you are. I know plenty of people who say they miss old style parties, they make them still with friends and LS members, if people ask to join them it's not like they turn people down. I have leveled with both my best friend and GF as I mentioned before by doing old style parties in areas like Beaucedine Glacier and in Qufim Island and while we make use of Trusts to fill the gaps it's not as though we'd turn other players down if they asked to join, but the thing is no one does, not that many people like them. I don't see the numbers to support the idea that there are a ton of people who want to level like before and just can't, rather I see a bunch of people all over the place who have said they'd never have leveled X-job with oldschool XP even though today it's one of their favorites.

I see you decided to be technical. I can be technical as well. Do you how much money it costs to level from 30-99 in an Abyssea party? $0. And while we are on the topic of cheap, this whole method of exping is cheap. There is no adventure to be had, no struggle, no growth/learning, no variety, etc. You could argue that you'll do all that at 99, but you're wrong, the feeling is different.
It really says something when people only remember how the game used to be. It was a magical experience unlike any other.

[Puck]

Ok fine, good riddance to oldschool exp parties, but 300-450k hr at level 30? That's ridiculous. Hell I can't even get that much exp an hr in WoW or FFXIV. At level 30 in Abyssea you're not getting 300/400K an hour. It takes quite a while to cap gold/ebon lights as well as cap chained Exp per mob. So at level 30 you actually don't see any Exp per kill for a long time, and most of the Exp you get is from chests. But yeah, even then, it's way better than anywhere else.


What's the point of even having levels to begin with? Why should I work for anything at all, right? Just give it all to me when I start and let's see how long I sub for.Let's see... it'll save you a week of Abyssea leeching. Or, assuming a brand-new player who is persistent and knows about the wiki, perhaps another two weeks taking Genkais into account. So by a simple arithmetical process you'll easily discover... you'd stay subbed a whole three weeks less than you would have otherwise, were you given a lv99 job from the start.

Someone around here suggested giving brand-new players one automatic lv99 job with some starter ilvl gear, and while that's a bit extreme, in all honesty I don't see how we lose much by doing that. They might actually stick around longer, being allowed to partake of everything from the start, playing through all the missions and forming a connection with the game. At worst all we'd lose was whatever subscription time it took them to get to 99, which can be achieved during a 1-month free trial anyway.

[Maikeru_Sylph]

At level 30 in Abyssea you're not getting 300/400K an hour. It takes quite a while to cap gold/ebon lights as well as cap chained Exp per mob. So at level 30 you actually don't see any Exp per kill for a long time, and most of the Exp you get is from chests. But yeah, even then, it's way better than anywhere else.

Let's see... it'll save you a week of Abyssea leeching. Or, assuming a brand-new player who is persistent and knows about the wiki, perhaps another two weeks taking Genkais into account. So by a simple arithmetical process you'll easily discover... you'd stay subbed a whole three weeks less than you would have otherwise, were you given a lv99 job from the start.

Someone around here suggested giving brand-new players one automatic lv99 job with some starter ilvl gear, and while that's a bit extreme, in all honesty I don't see how we lose much by doing that. They might actually stick around longer, being allowed to partake of everything from the start, playing through all the missions and forming a connection with the game. At worst all we'd lose was whatever subscription time it took them to get to 99, which can be achieved during a 1-month free trial anyway.

I'm just going to say that there is someone in my linkshell who unlocked PUP yesterday and is now 99. There are also several guides out there that say you can make that much exp/hr.

As far as the second quote is concerned, this is the mentality of modern day MMO players. This desire to have everything without working for it is extremely detrimental to the longevity of any MMO. There's a reason old FFXI managed to retain so many subs in its day, while so many modern day MMOs, including current FFXI, are bleeding subs. No, it's not because of how difficult it was to level, but the relationships that were built during those long exp sessions and adventures you partook in with them on the way to level cap. Even FFXIV, a game that is significantly faster passed than this, takes longer to reach level cap. There needs to be a happy medium. Additions such as Trust, FOV/GOV, and increasing exp gained from mobs, were all steps in the right direction. Abyssea is taking it too far.

[Feary]

I'm just going to say that there is someone in my linkshell who unlocked PUP yesterday and is now 99. There are also several guides out there that say you can make that much exp/hr.

As far as the second quote is concerned, this is the mentality of modern day MMO players. This desire to have everything without working for it is extremely detrimental to the longevity of any MMO. There's a reason old FFXI managed to retain so many subs in its day, while so many modern day MMOs, including current FFXI, are bleeding subs. No, it's not because of how difficult it was to level, but the relationships that were built during those long exp sessions and adventures you partook in with them on the way to level cap. Even FFXIV, a game that is significantly faster passed than this, takes longer to reach level cap. There needs to be a happy medium. Additions such as Trust, FOV/GOV, and increasing exp gained from mobs, were all steps in the right direction. Abyssea is taking it too far.

yep, and before anyone says s.e never had wow numbers or w.e. that is poppycock, yes the game was challenge and many didnt make or like but when ppl passed that curve that were dedicated and lifers. then abyssea came out and 75-80 + 300k exp was too much, linkshell imploding and dedicated ppl who LOVED this game left. the game population was halved and the other half were replaced with these new "modern mmo players".

[Demonjustin]

Yes, you can form relationships. However, the quality, as well as the process by which you formed those relationships, are significantly different.I care to disagree, my friendships in this gave have been formed in many ways, I have had many weak and many strong, the methods of forming them have varied greatly but I have mixed results from almost all forms of formations. I have built strong relationships both from the current game and the old ways, same as I built many weak ones all the same.


I see you decided to be technical. I can be technical as well. Do you how much money it costs to level from 30-99 in an Abyssea party? $0. And while we are on the topic of cheap, this whole method of exping is cheap. There is no adventure to be had, no struggle, no growth/learning, no variety, etc. You could argue that you'll do all that at 99, but you're wrong, the feeling is different.Time is money, the time in an Abyssea party is much lower than that of a standard party, were we talking real cost both are 0 and it'd mean nothing no matter which way you went about it. You can tell me I'm wrong about the learning aspect but again, I disagree. I played from 1 to my early 50s in old school style parties and stopped around that same point, then I started leveling to 99 in Abyssea once it was an option, I had both forms of learning and growth and in all honesty I feel like learning in endgame was actually far more valuable.

When I was a low level RDM I had to do nothing more than cure here and there when the WHM wasn't able to and swing my sword a bit while throwing out Paralyze, Slow, and Dia, I had no real ability to keep up my own buffs nor buff others in any way worth mentioning, I also had no difficulty in doing my job at any point in time. Speed up to level 40 and my job became a matter of Hasting, Healing, and Refreshing, again these were tasks of ease that taught me next to nothing other than how to watch for things to wear off. In high end levels I learnt so much more, I learnt the value of many different stats that you're never really exposed to in leveling, Store TP, Haste, Dual Wield, Fast Cast, all things given in such small amounts pre-75 that I'd have never truly understood their power. In this way I changed from a fool who knew next to nothing other than how to kill simple monsters such as crabs or pugils into a RDM who can solo NMs at his own level and solo difficult content that normally takes multiple people to even stand a chance. I gained knowledge of how the game worked in a much deeper sense than most others I know and in the end have a good understanding of just about every stat in the game no matter if it affects me or not.

Leveling to 50, I knew so little, the entire game to me seemed as simple as killing the next crab, growing to 99 as fast as I did is likely the only reason I kept playing and at the same time is the only thing that sparked any growth when it came to me as a player. I stopped seeing the challenge as being the next crab and instead as being the next NM who would rip my face apart at first sight. This is all obviously anecdotical evidence and I won't say it's not but in the end this is what my experience was. Leveling never gave me a need to evolve as a player, instead it coddled me and let me believe that the next challenge was more of the same, perhaps this time with a bit of an extra catch, but nothing too deadly that would really present a challenge. When I hit 99 and I fought my first few NMs in Abyssea or even easy things like Sky, which had long been outdated, I had a rude awakening that there are monsters out there who are more than willing to slaughter me on sight, that pushed me to actually make my character stronger. Leveling, for all that came from it in terms of friendship or conversation, never really taught me how to play the game, nor did it teach me how to play my job, only once I was a high enough level to have the game and my job's full capabilities at my fingertips did I truly begin to evolve into the player I am today.

All of that said, we disagree on what one got from leveling, that is a fundamental disagreement that we likely won't get past in any amount of discussion here and no matter what I won't see in leveling what you do, as you won't see in today's game what I do. This debate is likely pointless, I still believe it exists today as it did in years since past but even if I see it and lived it, not everyone's experience will be the same.


It really says something when people only remember how the game used to be. It was a magical experience unlike any other.I hope this comes across correctly, but perhaps the fact that people are only remembering how the game used to be is the problem with the current game. Perhaps people are too busy looking for what they remember and not spending enough time seeing how it's still there today but in different form.

[Puck]

I hope this comes across correctly, but perhaps the fact that people are only remembering how the game used to be is the problem with the current game. Perhaps people are too busy looking for what they remember and not spending enough time seeing how it's still there today but in different form.:eek: Holy crap, Justin. So much win in your post. So much. Kudos, sir.