Rice balls, Are they used any more? Should the Devs add new ones or...

[Kote]

Alter the Effect on the Samurai Artifact hands at iLev 109 and 119 to aply to "sushi" instead? Or both?

If the boost to riceballs are no different than in the past. Then is there any point in keeping the effect "Enhances effect of Rice balls" on the reforged hands?

For years now I really have not seen many Samurai using riceballs. Mostly it's Sushi or some other meat or bun. Given that many are using the 109 or 119 Af hands now. Are any of the riceballs even relevant to anything in SoA for Samurai? If not then what would be the best way to get the devs to at least relook at the effect.

All i can think of is either adding new recipies or altering the existing effect to make them on par to the iLev of the Af like "Enh. effect of Rice balls II". Where it could add some amount of +Stp, +dmg or +acc to weapon skills to some or all rice balls.

[Crion]

I personally would love some more input from any and all career SAM on this. The rice balls have been a SAM oriented thing for a long long time. And sadly none have ever been really worth using as you must have the corresponding gear on at all times to enable the bonus. With the introduction of wakido+3 I could see them being used in this fashion but still fall short ultimately. I would love to see more recipes for different types of rice balls that would make them a viable choice for use on Sam. Currently I use attack food or riverfin for everything I do now. Would absolutely be all for food that would be a go to food for Sam.

[Nyarlko]

Has anyone tested to see if the +2/+3 hands still gives the same effects as the +1?

[Leylia]

I wrote the following elsewhere:

If I remember right, you will need to keep the item with the enhancements" equipped in order to recieve the additional effects of the rice ball. This has always been hard due to the fact that the wakido kote mostly was subpar in almost any given situation. But now, where it basically is the best TP item out there, it might hold some merit to keep a few rice balls on you.

The issue that arises yet again however is the fact, that normally you would WS in something else and hence lose the rice ball effect for weapons skills. Therefor it ultimately comes down to whether or not the boon of "greatly enhances rice balls" during the TP phase outweighs the loss of normal attack food (which would be active during WS and TP phase) or performing WS using the wakido wakido kote +3 for WS (which might not even be that bad if you really need acc).

This post is written based on the fact, that the +2 hands do still have the SAME enhancement for riceballs, whereas the +3 version has "greatly" enhance the effect of riceballs, which simply means, that it counts the bonus twice.

Example:

Ojo rice ball without enhancement gear:
HP+50 DEX+5 VIT+5 CHR+5

Ojo riceball with enhance riceball effect:
HP+50 DEX+5 VIT+5 CHR+5
+60att +40def +2%TA
(so nice that they added food descriptions)

Ojo rice ball with 2 enhancing pieces of gear or +3 hands:
HP+50 DEX+5 VIT+5 CHR+5
+120att +80def +4%TA

Crazy option: Hands +3; Roshi jinpachi, Nobushi kyahan all at once:
HP+50 DEX+5 VIT+5 CHR+5
+240att +120def +8%TA

That said, especially for AG Masamune users this might be a viable option while they have the aftermath for triple damage going on. Of course you will have to WS in the +3 piece however and potentially lose out on 5% WSD (if you have it) and the like or weaponskill without any impactful food boni. One situation rice balls certainly would be king now is, if you farm lowlevel content, where attack and accuracy are capped off anyway and you would only really benefit from multi attack food. I personally wouldn't waste food on lowlevel content though :-P

The same is true for all GKs but due to their lower TP phase damage, it becomes even less justifiable using the rice balls. Koga in particular will maybe get the least out of thoe rice balls, since you should be using AM3 already and therefor work with diminishing returns on multi attacks.

[Songen]

anything that isn't lv119 will reduce your ilv and also reduce your dmg over all. in other words, it'll affect you overall stats against higher teir mobs and make you more suseptible to their attacks., if your gonna do it, it'd have to be the +3 alone, however since theres foods that give +180 att, this rice ball would mainly be used for triple attack and the +3's native acc and bonus acc from the set value. I heard a rumor that the +4 hasso from the +3 adds to str value, so it might end up compensating if its a +4% value increase.(Needs more testing pretty much)

[Leylia]

Noted the word "crazy" in there? If not, I wanna point out its existance there and that by no means I am calling it an effective set of gear. I am merely giving food for thought with the most extreme possibility but everyone should know, that below level 75 equipment isn't exactly recommended for content classified as 119+.

That being said, the oh so important ilevel doesn't exactly matter outside of the stats the equipment itself has. Were I to wear a +20 str piece that is 115 and then a +20 str piece that is 119 nothing but the other stat vomit would change aside from it calling me 118 now. The level correction formula has been taken out for a while now. So I couldn't care less whether or not it reduced my ilvl or not. The stats I am missing from it simply being better gear are a different matter altogether though.

Lastly: No, that weird rumor is false. The only change the Hasso+ on any of the pieces cause is the haste value. Hasso yields Acc+10 STR+34 and variable haste depending on gear (for a level 99 SAM with full job points in Hasso).

[Songen]

Noted the word "crazy" in there? If not, I wanna point out its existance there and that by no means I am calling it an effective set of gear. I am merely giving food for thought with the most extreme possibility but everyone should know, that below level 75 equipment isn't exactly recommended for content classified as 119+.

That being said, the oh so important ilevel doesn't exactly matter outside of the stats the equipment itself has. Were I to wear a +20 str piece that is 115 and then a +20 str piece that is 119 nothing but the other stat vomit would change aside from it calling me 118 now. The level correction formula has been taken out for a while now. So I couldn't care less whether or not it reduced my ilvl or not. The stats I am missing from it simply being better gear are a different matter altogether though.

Lastly: No, that weird rumor is false. The only change the Hasso+ on any of the pieces cause is the haste value. Hasso yields Acc+10 STR+34 and variable haste depending on gear (for a level 99 SAM with full job points in Hasso).

Before there is any confusion, the level correction not being affected is only for Adoulin,legion,escha/reisei. (Which is pretty much all the current good content with the exception of endgame unity and high teir fights)
ref: https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/PDIF

Hasso + gear doesn't affect haste except for empy pants
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Talk:Wakido_Kote <--- testing done disproving haste from hasso on Wakido
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Kasuga_Haidate_%2B1 <-- this is empy pants

[Leylia]

I don't think you should rely on information over 4 years old. Just in case, I went ahead and "tested" the wakido kote +3 and its effect on hasso again. In order to do so I wailed on bedrock craigs with my shinai for 4 consecutive full hasso buffs aka 20minutes. Once with Wakido Kote +3 equipped and once without (using sakonji kote +1 with the exact same haste value). Gear haste in both cases has been 28% since no other piece of gear was changed in order to not make some whacky difference there causing the results to change. The results are as follows:

273 attacks performed in 225 attack rounds within 19minutes and 53 seconds (Sakonji Kote +1)

and

294 attacks performed in 242 attack rounds within 19minutes and 57 seconds (Wakido Kote +3)

So the "Hasso +4" from the Wakido kote +3 is most defenitly affecting the haste portion of hasso.

With this however, I am done talking about Hasso because it isn't relevant to the topic at hand, whether or not rice balls can still be useful in nowadays endgame. Especially with the str rumor debunked, even though I am not 100% sure where that even comes from and how it would affect rice ball performance in the first place^^

TLDR: for a career SAM opinion of rice balls, check my first non-derailed post :)

[Folken]

Before there is any confusion, the level correction not being affected is only for Adoulin,legion,escha/reisei. (Which is pretty much all the current good content with the exception of endgame unity and high teir fights)
ref: https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/PDIF

Your average item level does NOT change your effective level for level correction. Anything pre-adoulin uses 99 as your level for the purposes of level correction.

[Songen]

I don't think you should rely on information over 4 years old. Just in case, I went ahead and "tested" the wakido kote +3 and its effect on hasso again. In order to do so I wailed on bedrock craigs with my shinai for 4 consecutive full hasso buffs aka 20minutes. Once with Wakido Kote +3 equipped and once without (using sakonji kote +1 with the exact same haste value). Gear haste in both cases has been 28% since no other piece of gear was changed in order to not make some whacky difference there causing the results to change. The results are as follows:

273 attacks performed in 225 attack rounds within 19minutes and 53 seconds (Sakonji Kote +1)

and

294 attacks performed in 242 attack rounds within 19minutes and 57 seconds (Wakido Kote +3)

So the "Hasso +4" from the Wakido kote +3 is most defenitly affecting the haste portion of hasso.

With this however, I am done talking about Hasso because it isn't relevant to the topic at hand, whether or not rice balls can still be useful in nowadays endgame. Especially with the str rumor debunked, even though I am not 100% sure where that even comes from and how it would affect rice ball performance in the first place^^

TLDR: for a career SAM opinion of rice balls, check my first non-derailed post :)

Your tests are incomplete, as it doesn't count for any variables that might amount, you have to compare to the non hasso swings, not on itselfs.
That doesn't mean it doesn't have haste at all, however you need to take into account is a 7.5% increase, not a 4% as would the gloves suggest which means something else could have factored in such as trust haste or reive bonus's


Your average item level does NOT change your effective level for level correction. Anything pre-adoulin uses 99 as your level for the purposes of level correction.

no idea where your getting anything pre-adoulin uses 99 as your base level, if that were the case you wouldn't beable to do any high teir fights solo at all due to the first set of levels start at 113 (Thats notorious monster 113, which is stronger than a normal mobs 113), it would be a 14 level difference, and some of the higher ones go into lv145 for unity fights, its hard enough to do sarama(lv135 NM stats) with lvl 119, i can't imagine the penalty if its from lv 99 (Even with the stats from gear it wouldn't prevent the massive dmg difference you'd experience)

Unity and high tier fights both use original areas, thats why they weren't affected with the escha/reisei/adoulin nerf

[Folken]

no idea where your getting anything pre-adoulin uses 99 as your base level, if that were the case you wouldn't beable to do any high teir fights solo at all due to the first set of levels start at 113 (Thats notorious monster 113, which is stronger than a normal mobs 113), it would be a 14 level difference, and some of the higher ones go into lv145 for unity fights, its hard enough to do sarama(lv135 NM stats) with lvl 119, i can't imagine the penalty if its from lv 99 (Even with the stats from gear it wouldn't prevent the massive dmg difference you'd experience)

I don't know where you're getting the idea that the area in which you're fighting matters.






Level correction adjustment plan

Level correction for monsters’ attack power
Make adjustments so when a player’s defense is high, damage taken will be reduced.
Make adjustments to monsters’ strength via parameters
Monsters created after Seekers of Adoulin will be made at a level where there is no level correction, and when higher level monsters are created modification will be placed on attack, defense, and stats.

[Songen]

I don't know where you're getting the idea that the area in which you're fighting matters.

for those who want to see the original post http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/29831-Overall-Battle-System-Adjustments-for-the-Future?p=395968&viewfull=1#post395968

what you quote was the intended plan, not the actual update with Camate actually saying
Now then, just to wrap stuff up, below is a TL;DR version of the basic plan for these adjustments. Please keep in mind that none of this is finalized.

The actual update resulting from camates post stated
The attack-to-defense ratio has undergone adjustment.
When a player's level is vastly lower than the level of the monster attacking him, there will now be times when he will take much more damage than before.

In the event that:
Attacker's DMG: 100
Attacker's attack power: 1000
Defender's DEF: 250

Amount of damage taken pre-adjustment: 200
Amount of damage taken post-adjustment: 400
* Simplified conditions have been used for the sake of explanation.

The maximum amount of damage dealt based upon the attack-to-defense ratio is now the same for both one-handed and two-handed weapons.
Therefore, there will now be occasions where the amount of damage dealt with one-handed weapons will be greater than before.

Level differential corrections have been adjusted.
Level differential corrections will now be made when an enemy is two levels higher than the player, and will mirror those previously made when an enemy was one level higher than a player.
* This adjustment does not apply to enemies that have yet to be introduced.
At no point do either mention everything will be based off level 99, what they said was everything bar new content (From 03-27-2013)will be adjusted (In terms of in terms of level differential)
(This adjustment is pretty much anyone from level 1-99 (Since most content pre-adoulin is 1-99)
Monsters from level 1-99 the level penalty is every 2 levels, after that your in adoulin/escha/reisei/legion ares where there isn't any level penalty for those zones.
However High teir fights and unity fights are based in the 1-99 areas, not adoulin/reisei/escha/legion areas, as such fall into the penalty range of every 2 levels you are penalised. This is based off your Ilv, not lv99 (Unless you are physically lvl 99 or less of cause)

[Nyarlko]

As far as the level correction thing goes, keep in mind that all of the mob adjustments/nerfs in the last couple years have had the caveat of only applying in SoA+ content zones. Ilvl mobs in those zones (102+ at least) have a static increase each level and are not affected by player lvl/ilvl at all. For instance, 109-119 mobs gain eva+15 per level, and 119+ (not sure if there is an upper limit anywhere, but I've tested up to 133,) gain eva+30 per level. Odds are pretty good that all other stats follow the same pattern with specific "lvl+1" values. I have no intention of testing any lower level ranges than what I've already done, since IMO, nothing below 119 is worth killing, plus the fact that I had a hard enough time testing for the 109-119 range and doubt that naked+ExcalipoorII will give me low enough accuracy to effectively test any further down. @_@;;

As far as the OP goes, I would like to see new riceball options, especially if the AF119 +2/+3 actually increases the effect. I think it could lead to interesting choices at the very least, plus would give my cooking friends something new to complain about. XD

[Folken]

for those who want to see the original post
I provided the source of the quote with the little icon next to Camate's name, but thanks for the redundancy. What's the source/context of your quote? Specifically, I'd like to know when it was posted for some context about this:

* This adjustment does not apply to enemies that have yet to be introduced.

[Songen]

I provided the source of the quote with the little icon next to Camate's name, but thanks for the redundancy. What's the source/context of your quote? Specifically, I'd like to know when it was posted for some context about this:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/31310-March-27-2013-%28JST%29-Version-Update

Thats the official update for march 27 2013, i have no idea how to quote locked threads
and thanks for the tip on clicking the marker next to the name, i never heard of it till today

[Kyte]

no idea where your getting anything pre-adoulin uses 99 as your base level, if that were the case you wouldn't beable to do any high teir fights solo at all due to the first set of levels start at 113 (Thats notorious monster 113, which is stronger than a normal mobs 113), it would be a 14 level difference, and some of the higher ones go into lv145 for unity fights, its hard enough to do sarama(lv135 NM stats) with lvl 119, i can't imagine the penalty if its from lv 99 (Even with the stats from gear it wouldn't prevent the massive dmg difference you'd experience)

Unity and high tier fights both use original areas, thats why they weren't affected with the escha/reisei/adoulin nerf

Unity and High tier fights use monsters that are only level 99. Really the only semi-relevant thing that level correction applies to these days is Voidwatch.

[Nyarlko]

Unity and High tier fights use monsters that are only level 99. Really the only semi-relevant thing that level correction applies to these days is Voidwatch.

And Trusts. Pretty sure they go off of your listed ilvl.. Could be wrong and it's MH weapon like BST pets tho. :/