View Full Version : [dev1217] Geo-Haste - Gildrein / Camate?? Stacking??
Raging_Oracle
06-24-2014, 08:23 PM
Since Geo Spells can not be resisted by monsters, and the effects stack with none geo spells of the same effect, I would hope that the geo form haste effect can like-wise stack and even go over the standard haste cap when stacked. :D Is this the case Gildrien / Camate?
Malithar
06-24-2014, 08:40 PM
Since Geo Spells can not be resisted by monsters, and the effects stack with none geo spells of the same effect, I would hope that the geo form haste effect can like-wise stack
100% certain it will, barring an oversight/bug.
and even go over the standard haste cap when stacked. :D
Extremely doubtful. They'd have to either change the cap, or type the haste as job ability haste (which would only "exceed" the cap for jobs lacking JA haste sources, up to the maximum reduction of 80%), or for it to be truly useless, gear haste... It still remains to be seen just how strong the effect will be as well. I'm hoping it'll be at least 14% base with skill merits/gear, which would give 19% with the +5 bell, and (as long as Idris stacks to +15..) 29% with Ergon + Bell, allowing us to cap out magic haste with a Haste spell from /Rdm.
Raydeus
06-25-2014, 07:19 AM
I'm not sure Gildrein and Camate stack with Geo-Haste. They will probably overwrite each other if you try to cast them together because it would be kinda op otherwise.
But I might be wrong.
Camate
07-01-2014, 03:56 AM
Greetings,
Similar to how the same type of songs and corsair rolls do not stack, Geo-Haste will not stack in the event that two geomancers use this at the same time.
I'm pretty sure what they were asking was if Geo-Haste would stack with OTHER forms of haste, such as Haste/Haste II or Marches. They weren't asking if it Geo-Haste would stack with ITSELF, which would be ridiculous.
Genoxd
07-01-2014, 11:34 AM
I'm pretty sure what they were asking was if Geo-Haste would stack with OTHER forms of haste, such as Haste/Haste II or Marches. They weren't asking if it Geo-Haste would stack with ITSELF, which would be ridiculous.
Yes, that would be ridiculous and obviously they weren't asking that because asking would just be stupid.
What they were asking is a question that is even stupider. Does Geo-Haste stack with other haste effects.
Well lets see, if it doesn't stack with other haste spells then it's totally 100% worthless and adds nothing to the job what so ever. In fact it detracts from the job because retard lazy people will want to use Geo-Haste instead of a useful buff/debuff so their mages can slack off and not haste DD.
If it does stack. Wait no sorry, it does stack. I don't even need to use if.
MDenham
07-01-2014, 11:56 AM
About the only room for questionable implementation is "do Geo-Haste and Indi-Haste stack". If they do, that's got potential. If they don't, well, that's fine (capping magic haste isn't that hard and it leaves room for a second buff) but obviously not ideal.
Based on the track record with Geo/Indi, though, they will stack.
Well lets see, if it doesn't stack with other haste spells then it's totally 100% worthless and adds nothing to the job what so ever. In fact it detracts from the job because retard lazy people will want to use Geo-Haste instead of a useful buff/debuff so their mages can slack off and not haste DD.Hey, this is SE we're talking about here. I wouldn't put it past them to make Geo/Indi-Haste only provide the exact same haste buff as the spell Haste/II.
dasva
07-01-2014, 02:53 PM
100% certain it will, barring an oversight/bug.
Extremely doubtful. They'd have to either change the cap, or type the haste as job ability haste (which would only "exceed" the cap for jobs lacking JA haste sources, up to the maximum reduction of 80%), or for it to be truly useless, gear haste... It still remains to be seen just how strong the effect will be as well. I'm hoping it'll be at least 14% base with skill merits/gear, which would give 19% with the +5 bell, and (as long as Idris stacks to +15..) 29% with Ergon + Bell, allowing us to cap out magic haste with a Haste spell from /Rdm.
I believe there has been enough confirmation to show +5 doesn't add +5% to all percent based geo spells so a little early to get too excited about increases....
as far as the whole stacking question I don't know what to say. For it to not stack it'd have to be very weirdly bugged. Now how it will stack... they could do something silly and make it some weird multiplicative term like the cor roll... but I doubt that so it remains to see if they make it magic or ja
Babekeke
07-01-2014, 05:17 PM
I imagine that seeing as GEO can only use 2 buffs/debuffs at once, that this is only even going to be useful if it caps magic haste on it's own....
... and I can't see it being 43% haste
Malithar
07-01-2014, 07:12 PM
About the only room for questionable implementation is "do Geo-Haste and Indi-Haste stack". If they do, that's got potential. If they don't, well, that's fine (capping magic haste isn't that hard and it leaves room for a second buff) but obviously not ideal.
Based on the track record with Geo/Indi, though, they will stack.
What track record are you referring to? Indis and Geos don't stack together. AFAIK, they never have, but I tested it back maybe 2-3 months after SoA launched, and just retested with MAB, Regen, Refresh, Malaise, and +stat, and just as before, none stacked.
I believe there has been enough confirmation to show +5 doesn't add +5% to all percent based geo spells so a little early to get too excited about increases....
For sure, on Fury and Frailty it ends up being over a 6% further buff/reduction, Refresh is straight +5, Regen is +10, stats are something weird, I don't remember and haven't checked what their value was pre +5. I've long since forgotten how the tiers progressed, and neither of the Wikis ever had the information, just the caps. Assumed it was +5 tiers, but idk about that either. Regardless, don't you jinx my hopes of another capped haste option! ;O
I imagine that seeing as GEO can only use 2 buffs/debuffs at once, that this is only even going to be useful if it caps magic haste on it's own....
... and I can't see it being 43% haste
Good thing it only needs to be 28% then with bell/Ergon, to be able to cap magic haste with bubble + haste spell, just like Brd caps with relic 2x Marches + haste spell, assuming Geo-Haste is magical haste.
MDenham
07-02-2014, 12:52 AM
What track record are you referring to? Indis and Geos don't stack together. AFAIK, they never have, but I tested it back maybe 2-3 months after SoA launched, and just retested with MAB, Regen, Refresh, Malaise, and +stat, and just as before, none stacked.I must have been remembering wrong, then (pretty much all of my screwing around on GEO was on the test server, and that was quite a while ago).
In that case, well, my considered opinion becomes "meh". Considering its level, it's probably the equivalent of Haste II (or slightly below) in potency.
GoltanaBuukki
07-02-2014, 10:10 PM
About the only room for questionable implementation is "do Geo-Haste and Indi-Haste stack". If they do, that's got potential. If they don't, well, that's fine (capping magic haste isn't that hard and it leaves room for a second buff) but obviously not ideal.
Based on the track record with Geo/Indi, though, they will stack.
Silly. Geo/Indi do NOT stack. Tried Geo/Indi Refresh, GEO/Indi STR, etc. Only one icon appears and it only boosts your stats once. Pay attention to the icons on your status bar. When you receive a beneficial effect that is not Geomancy, it appears as "STR BOOST" (for example), or "Refresh". When you are given that same beneficial status effect through Geomancy, the description changes to "Due to Geomancy, you are receiving..." - In other words, Geomance is coded completely different from that of normal buffs and debuffs. However, the effects of Geomancy are not additive or multiplicative (You cannot use GEO-Refresh & Indi-Refresh" and expect to get both effects from both bubbles).
So basically, GEO/Indi haste will absolutely not stack together, as Camate mentioned above (although he missed the real question). The real question is, will GEO/Indi Haste stack with Vanilla Haste 1? According to my tests of currently buffs and debuffs, and the current trend of geomancy + enhancing/enfeebling magic, they absolutely will stack.
I think its important to remeber the coding on these spells. GEO/Indi spells appear as "Geomancy". Corsair buffs appear as "Rolls". Bard buffs appear as "Song", and Enhancing Magic simply appears as the buff icon. So really, as long as you are using two or more different kinds of magic or abilities, the effects are indeed additive.
Babekeke
07-02-2014, 10:17 PM
Good thing it only needs to be 28% then with bell/Ergon, to be able to cap magic haste with bubble + haste spell, just like Brd caps with relic 2x Marches + haste spell, assuming Geo-Haste is magical haste.
That's not 'On it's own'.
Completely removing the need for keeping haste on everyone would make this useful. Otherwise, it's not. Especially when you consider all the limitations that it has with range etc.
Malithar
07-02-2014, 10:38 PM
That's not 'On it's own'.
Completely removing the need for keeping haste on everyone would make this useful. Otherwise, it's not. Especially when you consider all the limitations that it has with range etc.
Are we really back to mages that are too lazy/dumb to Haste? It's such a standard buff at this point, hell, it's always been a standard buff. Calling Geo's Haste useless unless it caps magical Haste on it's own without Haste is moronic. Your posts usually carry a bit more insight than that. Can agree with the limitations of the bubble, but that's more a design flaw of the job (which they've actively worked on), and if you do indeed need Idris to cap out magical haste, than -75% DT will go a good ways further to making that much less of an issue.
GoltanaBuukki
07-02-2014, 11:04 PM
They haven't yet touched the "limitations of the bubble" in regards to Indicolure and Geocolure distance. Its still like 6' or something insanely small. Yeah, I know about WCompass, but, shouldn't that ability be on like a 5min timer and give GEO a different SP2? Or how about a Ring or piece of equipment that increases the range of Geomancy, similar to Luzaf's ring. I don't know how many times I am going to say this, but it needs to be improved a bit.