View Full Version : Dated Jug pets
I am aware that petitions and proposals almost never work, especially in the bst forums, but I digress. I mentioned this is another thread, SE loves recycling/re-skinning old familiars, however, it is usually sub-par pets that receive this treatment, rabbits, mandies, and crabs. They have also indicated that they are no plans to lift the jug cap. Basically, I would like to propose the re-skinning/release of several older jugs. Past monsters such as scorps and opo have no chance of being released, hence these are the next best thing imo^^ I mean, what happened to the days when pets had berserk, triple attack, high evasion, and treasure hunter? Those were the good ol days; but anyways, here a few proposed pets. These monstrosity monsters are only used for demonstrative purposes; pay no attention to the non-related jug elements, JAs, magic, etc, just the native special abilities and Job traits that jugs tend to possess. These are basically re-skinned jug species with more damaging/useful abilities.
Gorefang Hobs (Tigers > rabbits from my experience) http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Smilodon_%28MON%29
Nursery Nazuna (Sheep > rabbits) http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Karakul_%28MON%29
Amigo Sabotender: (Cactuar > mandies) http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Sabotender_Florido_%28MON%29
Crude Raphie (We do not have a lizard; what up with dat?) http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Ferromantoise_%28MON%29
Swift Sieghard: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Vermilion_Raptor_%28MON%29
Bloodclaw Shasra: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Collared_Lynx_%28MON%29
Panzer Galahad: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Gamboge_Beetle_%28MON%29
Lifedrinker Lars: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Arundimite_%28MON%29
Bugeyed Broncha: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Tarichuk_%28MON%29
Dipper Yuly: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Gold_Ladybug_%28MON%29
Faithful Falcorr: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Hippogryph_%28MON%29
What do you guys think? Would you like to mind if older species seen the light of day? This would open up the opportunity to use every monster family. Personally, I would like to see the Gambodge Beetle; rhino wreck is awesome; plus beetles are durable. I am aware that bst has other issues, but a slim selection of pets should not be one of them. Smns get to use any avatar they wish, bst should be able to use any jug they please. SE, please consider this^^
Leonardus
06-23-2014, 09:10 PM
I'll keep this simple: The database of BST familiars needs a streamlined, modern vision. Start from the beginning.
One white mandragora. One black tiger. One blue crab. One funguar.
One black mandragora. One smilodon. One blue raptor. One hippogryph.
One lapinion. One tulfaire. One raaz. One chapuli. (Etc.)
Give them all a base level, repurpose Beast Affinity for something else and let everything go up to Lv119, or whatever the BST's mainhand weapon is capable of.
There's no reason to have things as convoluted as they are. For example, there are now two DroopyDortwins and two AttentiveIbukis and two ScissorlegXerins because SE continues the cycle of hard level caps instead of making the system self-sustaining, which would allow them to move on and release new species or new monsters altogether while the people that like what exists can continue to enjoy the older pets.
...
So...yeah. I agree, what's up with not having a Lv119 lizard jug yet? I've been trying to convince those stalwart Lavawalker Raptors in Morimar to join my BSTly cause as a loyal familiar, but all I get are hesitant growls and a Chomp Rush to the face. And don't let me get started on the matamatas; They just want to lay around and guard those grimy boulders all day.
Mefuki
06-23-2014, 11:57 PM
Basically, fix what's broken instead of adding more of what we already have. BLU knows all about that.
Falkirk
06-24-2014, 02:01 AM
I've been trying to convince those stalwart Lavawalker Raptors in Morimar to join my BSTly cause as a loyal familiar, but all I get are hesitant growls and a Chomp Rush to the face. And don't let me get started on the matamatas; They just want to lay around and guard those grimy boulders all day.
lmao XD
And totally agree.
Shadowsong
06-24-2014, 02:43 AM
Whoa Whoa Whoa,
Are we just going to let the little statement of "Sheep > Rabbit" slip by without a comment?
There is no jug that even remotely comes close to the 119 rabbit in terms of damage, not the tiger, not the bird, nothing. And im not even talking close, my parses are easily 10-15% more damage form the rabbit to the next best one (Tulfaire)
Of course I'm talking capped pet haste, ect.
Have you people really parsed the SHEEP at even remotely decent numbers?
EDIT: I suppose I need to stay on topic lol
I agree with the streamlining, way too many choices for all either sidegrades or downgrades. Give us 1 of each useful pet, give them ALL that monsters TP moves, stop being stingy SE. Pets are our thing, yet they seem to arbitrarily let us do and not do random things with them. Just let us do our thing, I promise we wont break the game, we aren't even ALLOWED to go to important things regardless of the buffs you would give us...
Whoa Whoa Whoa,
Are we just going to let the little statement of "Sheep > Rabbit" slip by without a comment?
There is no jug that even remotely comes close to the 119 rabbit in terms of damage, not the tiger, not the bird, nothing. And im not even talking close, my parses are easily 10-15% more damage form the rabbit to the next best one (Tulfaire)
Of course I'm talking capped pet haste, ect.
Have you people really parsed the SHEEP at even remotely decent numbers?
EDIT: I suppose I need to stay on topic lol
I agree with the streamlining, way too many choices for all either sidegrades or downgrades. Give us 1 of each useful pet, give them ALL that monsters TP moves, stop being stingy SE. Pets are our thing, yet they seem to arbitrarily let us do and not do random things with them. Just let us do our thing, I promise we wont break the game, we aren't even ALLOWED to go to important things regardless of the buffs you would give us...
We don't have a capped sheep, so of course it will not match lapinion.
I would just like all jug pets to be uncapped. Beast affiinity should let our pets go over the level of our mainhand weapon. If that means they need to change monster gloves or whatever, they should fly at er, I don't care. Allowing our pets to be 124 might actually give them a half decent hit rate and make it so they suck slightly less.
Gorefang > Lucky
Falcorr > Lucky
Sheep has zerk; so yea....sheep > Lucky
Keep in mind that the majority of our jugs are capped. http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/29525/best-damage-jug/2/. Phunky knows his stuff, the most analytical bst out there imo. Rabbits can heal, hence have slightly more utility than other pets, but bst is a dd first and foremost, not a tank or a healer.
Rabbits are not that great; you may be using him on dated content and marvel at those 2-5k (Rarely) foot kicks. Droopy reigns atm by default; there is no way a rabbit can out dd a sheep, whom hits somewhat fast and has berserk. I just don't see it. Notice ppl were not complaining about ready move damage during the sheep and hippo era......hmmm...Foot kick was doing like 2k in salvage in AR2 last night on qutrub. Rabbits, crabs and mandies are so overrated, notably rabbits. Prolly why SE keeps releasing them. SE, NO MORE RABBITS PLEASE; THERE ARE MUCH BETTER BEAST SPECIES OUT THERE. RABBITS ARE NOT EVEN GREAT IN MONSTROSITY WHERE MONSTERS ARE OVER_POWERED^^
I only wished for recycled jugs because that is all SE does. SE is lazy when it comes to bst; plain and simple. No thought whatsoever goes into these jugs. The majority of the pets released have no business being used in party situations, we only use them because they are all we have. We need to stop fooling ourselves, some monsters are just plain better than others, or else, ppl would use the chapuli over the rabbit for dd purposes. SE, is it so hard to take the best DD pet from each family during new jug releases?
Ask yourself this question, if you could have any jug for dd purposes, what would you choose? I am willing to bet it is not any of the current 119 pets. The rabbit has all of his/her native damaging abilities, while most jugs do not; most likely, he may be still inferior to a 119 hobs. Tigers are just nasty.
SE, please put more thought into our jug pets. Stop removing damaging abilities as well. Aslo, the best dd pets out there, in their non-gimped form are as followed, tigers, Opo, sheep, coeurl, scorpion, dhamel, wivre, ruby raptor, matamatas, ferromantoise, gambodge beetles, Arundimite, spider, mantid, gnat, Sabotender, craklaw, ruszor, pigmy sandworm, and hippo. If the next batch does not include any of these guys, I will table flip this is not complicated lol XD. Bst is a dd, release dd pets. Jobs are doing 20k leaden salutes on weaker crap, doubt any true dd pet could reach 10k on dated crap, but ruinator and a damaging ready move can close the gap between bst and other dd. We need ready moves which are damaging, foot kick and whirl claws are not cutting it; the aforementioned pets > rabbits for dd purposes; even with wild ginger, i mean, the boar can reach insane levels of attack speed, but is really nothing special.
What Olor said basically; that sheep was insane.
I also agree that the sensible thing to do would be uncapping jugs. We all should probably band together and petition for this. SE basically admitted that bst affinity was a flaw by working around it with the new "LOL hq jugs"
Bst affinity could be a bst master/pet skill chain ability that enhances the pet and master's ws/ready move damage by a sizable amount; hence affinity has to do with relationships and whatnot, master/pet banding together to perform a powerful skillchain. Bst affinity could just reduces the recast timer of this JA or something. With a decent recast time, this could be pretty neat/useful imo.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/41383-Solo-Accomplishments-Party-Barriers-and-Enhancing-the-Community?p=513076&viewfull=1#post513076
Guess ill shut up now XD, lol.......
Hopefully those sheep are in their native form, but anyway, those adjustments were way beyond my expectations; bravo^^
Shadowsong
06-24-2014, 06:24 AM
LOL at sheep > lucky, but I guess Im the only one who actually parses, don't mind me :o
Good for you^^
But I would prefer a fast attacking jug with berserk as opposed to a rabbit without one. If the coeurl had frenzied rage and pounce, coeurl > rabbit as well. Lynx also attack rather fast.
Also, if a new Lucerewe sheep is introduced in its' native form; he will blow droopy out of the water.
Louispv
06-24-2014, 07:59 PM
LOL at sheep > lucky, but I guess Im the only one who actually parses, don't mind me :o
The only way a rabbit ever beat a sheep is
A) it has wild ginseng as a viable ready move. (I.E. able to be full timed, not 1 min duration and 3 charges.)
B) You're using unleash, where Foot kick takes 0.5 seconds to use and Lamb chop takes 1.5 seconds to use, resulting in 3 times as many foot kicks as lamb chops.
C) You're using whirl claws to AoE kill dozens of Too Weaks at once.
Other than that, Sheep and Rabbits have almost identical base damage, delay, attack, and accuracy so the one with berserk beats the one without. Tack a lot more max hp onto the sheep and an AoE sleep, and I'd take a sheep any day.
They would both lose horribly to 119 Hobbs though. Why use a ready move to get 25% more attack when you could just have 50% bonus attack all the time.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/41383-Solo-Accomplishments-Party-Barriers-and-Enhancing-the-Community?p=513076&viewfull=1#post513076
Guess ill shut up now XD, lol.......
Hopefully those sheep are in their native form, but anyway, those adjustments were way beyond my expectations; bravo^^
We can hope. I just think SE thinks we are more powerful than we actually are already... and talking about boosting ready moves does not inspire hope. Like, sure, it would be great if they were more powerful but they are on a REALLY LONG timer and therefore even if they did 20K damage they still would be lacklustre because charges take forever. If they want pet weaponskills to bring us closer to other DD they need to get rid of the timer/charges and just let us hit pet WS whenever they have TP. I'd even be ok if different ready moves had different TP costs (show us the TP bar please)
And unless they make it so pets take much less damage from AOE/resist more AOE debuffs it won't matter how powerful we are with our pet because our pets will be dead before half the battle is over because they can't be cured effectively. That could be helped by some kind of item that removes multiple debuffs that doesn't use the ready timer... but then again we would be losing so much DPS by having to dick around with items etc...
I am hopeful because they say they are going to make the base DD of BST/PUP/DRG higher than other DD but I don't know that they know what needs to be done to make that happen. There is just so much wrong with BST in particular that they really need to overhaul it to make that happen.
Like, we definitely need WS that can compete. None of my axe WS come anywhere close to dishing out 15 - 20K damage...
Mitruya
06-25-2014, 10:49 AM
Yeah ... I know we have things like Repair, Reward, Steady Wing, Dawn Mulsums, gear that enhances debuff removal, whatever, but Olor says it best that we're just dicking around with items and constant JA spam, making us fail the almighty parsing war.
Hell, it'd be great if Curaga and Divine Waltz could hit the pet in a party situation. Or else as was said, pets need way better protection from AOE.
^^I agree with you two.
Honestly, I do believe that SE thinks we are more powerful than we truly are. For instance, us players see this http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Scissorleg_Xerin. SE sees this http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Supernal_Chapuli.
At lower lvls, the sheep could dish out strong ready moves; the majority of the time, it scaled higher than mine on tougher crap (personal experience). Perhaps they will allow just pet ready moves to out-do the master's on occasions? "Shrugs"
Bumping, due to a recent dev response regarding the pet lvl cap (Did not want to make a new thread since this idea is quite similar to the OP).
Well, it appears that the level cap will not be lifted; my OP went unheard, however, I will be persistent.
SE, can we have updated versions, (perhaps HQ of our dated guys)? Ppl (Including myself) keep stating how bad our pets are, but honestly (Srry to say), you guys (SE) makes them bad. For instance: here is a rundown of our released guys and what they should/could have been.
-Sheep (Ram: Ram Charge, Rage, Rumble, Petribreathe)
-Mandragora (Pachypodium: Head Butt, Petal Piroulette, Wild Oats, Scream, Leaf Dagger, Photosynthesis, Petalback Spin)
-Tiger (Similidon: Roar, Razor fang, Crossthrash, Disorienting Waul, Predatory Glare, Claw Cyclone),
-Lizard (Ashen: Snowball, Secretion, Plague Breathe, Infrasonics, Brain Crush, Blockhead, Baleful Gaze)
-Fly (Vermillion: Venom, Cursed Sprhere, Somersault, Debilitating Drone)
-Beetle (Gambodge: Power attack, Spoil , rhino Guard, rhino Attack, Rhino Wrecker),
-Antilion (Formiceros: Quake Blast, Sandblast, Mandibular Bite, Venom Spray)
-Crab (Porter: Venom Shower, Metallic Body, Scissor Guard, Big Scissors, Megascissors, Bubble Curtain, Bubble Shower)
-Diremite (Arundimite: Double Claw, Grapple, Filamented Hold, Spinning Top, Viscid Secretion)
-Sabotender (Florido: needle Shot, Photosynthesis, 2,000 Needles, 4,000 Needles, Chupa Blossom)
-Coeurl (Lynx: Frenzied Rage, Pounce, Chaotic Eye, Blaster, Petrifactive Breathe, Charged Whisker, Preternatural Gleam)
-Raptor (Vermillion: Ripper Fang, Chomp Rush, Scythe Tail, Foul Breathe, Thunder Breathe, Whirling Inferno)
-Lady Bug (Gold: Nepenthean Hum, Spiral Burst, Searing Effulgence, Sudden Lunge, Noisome Powder, Spiral Spin)
-Apakallu (Inguza: Yawn, Frigid Shuffle, Wing Slap, Wing Whirl, White Out)
-Leech (Obdella: Sand Breathe, Acid Mist, Regeneration, Drain Kiss, Suction, Random Kiss, Drain Kiss, TP Kiss, Brain Drain, Absorbing Kiss, Caliginosity)
-Hippgryph (Back Heel, Fantod, Choke Bretahe Nihility Song, Jettura, Hoof Volley-can proc after a special attack, like most hippos do)
-Slug (Corrosive Ooze, Fuscous Ooze, Purulent Ooze, Mucilaginous Ooze),
-Adamantoise ( Ferromantoise: Head Butt, Turle Stomp, Harden Shell, Tortoise Song, Earth Breathe, Aqua Breathe, Testudo Tremor)
-Chapuli (Nature's Mediation, Sanguinary Slash, Sensilla Blades, Tegmina Buffet). Perhaps, just add a few moves to him?
Not so crappy huh? Nope, I say pretty damn good. The aforementioned moves are in monstrosity, hence are implementable for players/not broken/overpowered.
Whats the concept behind releasing new pets, when the batches from 2003-2014 were flawed/screwed up? These old guys are not bad, in theory. Is it possible to add hq or updated versions of these guys? It is a total shame, so many pets with so much potential are rendered useless due to the level cap and move removal. Would it be too much work to re-release these guys? If the we got the aforementioned jugs, there will be no need to release new jugs every few months; bst will be set until the next ilvl cap.
SE, is this an option? We could just use the old mats to hq these through synergy or a said crafting skill perhaps? I can't be the only bst whom misses that big @$$ turtle and the awesome beetle whom would solo avatars pre-lvl cap. Their alternate species would be sweet imo^^
Is there a possibility SE? Ideally, the cap would be lifted and we will have updated pets. Many of the capped guys' alternate skins are more efficient than their old counterparts, hence need an update anyway (Sabotender, beetle, turtle, raptor, etc) and some were just stripped beyond comprehension.
Leonardus
07-16-2014, 06:31 PM
SE, can we have updated versions, (perhaps HQ of our dated guys)? Ppl (Including myself) keep stating how bad our pets are, but honestly (Srry to say), you guys (SE) makes them bad. For instance: here is a rundown of our released guys and what they should/could have been.
-Sheep (Ram: Ram Charge, Rage, Rumble, Petribreathe)
-Mandragora (Pachypodium: Head Butt, Petal Piroulette, Wild Oats, Scream, Leaf Dagger, Photosynthesis, Petalback Spin)
-Tiger (Similidon: Roar, Razor fang, Crossthrash, Disorienting Waul, Predatory Glare, Claw Cyclone),
-Lizard (Ashen: Snowball, Secretion, Plague Breathe, Infrasonics, Brain Crush, Blockhead, Baleful Gaze)
-Fly (Vermillion: Venom, Cursed Sprhere, Somersault, Debilitating Drone)
-Beetle (Gambodge: Power attack, Spoil , rhino Guard, rhino Attack, Rhino Wrecker),
-Antilion (Formiceros: Quake Blast, Sandblast, Mandibular Bite, Venom Spray)
-Crab (Porter: Venom Shower, Metallic Body, Scissor Guard, Big Scissors, Megascissors, Bubble Curtain, Bubble Shower)
-Diremite (Arundimite: Double Claw, Grapple, Filamented Hold, Spinning Top, Viscid Secretion)
-Sabotender (Florido: needle Shot, Photosynthesis, 2,000 Needles, 4,000 Needles, Chupa Blossom)
-Coeurl (Lynx: Frenzied Rage, Pounce, Chaotic Eye, Blaster, Petrifactive Breathe, Charged Whisker, Preternatural Gleam)
-Raptor (Vermillion: Ripper Fang, Chomp Rush, Scythe Tail, Foul Breathe, Thunder Breathe, Whirling Inferno)
-Lady Bug (Gold: Nepenthean Hum, Spiral Burst, Searing Effulgence, Sudden Lunge, Noisome Powder, Spiral Spin)
-Apakallu (Inguza: Yawn, Frigid Shuffle, Wing Slap, Wing Whirl, White Out)
-Leech (Obdella: Sand Breathe, Acid Mist, Regeneration, Drain Kiss, Suction, Random Kiss, Drain Kiss, TP Kiss, Brain Drain, Absorbing Kiss, Caliginosity)
-Hippgryph (Back Heel, Fantod, Choke Bretahe Nihility Song, Jettura, Hoof Volley-can proc after a special attack, like most hippos do)
-Slug (Corrosive Ooze, Fuscous Ooze, Purulent Ooze, Mucilaginous Ooze),
-Adamantoise ( Ferromantoise: Head Butt, Turle Stomp, Harden Shell, Tortoise Song, Earth Breathe, Aqua Breathe, Testudo Tremor)
-Chapuli (Nature's Mediation, Sanguinary Slash, Sensilla Blades, Tegmina Buffet). Perhaps, just add a few moves to him?
This would be enjoyable, but the likely scenario is just a HQ name, Lv119 and slightly higher HP and Defense, like the other recent HQs. Better than total abandonment, I suppose.
This would be enjoyable, but the likely scenario is just a HQ name, Lv119 and slightly higher HP and Defense, like the other recent HQs. Better than total abandonment, I suppose.
That was my thinking as-well^^
Ideally, the cap would be lifted, but this may be the next best thing.
Bst want to use the old guys, we don't care about the new guys, bst wants the older jugs back; that is the entire point of the jug cap removal. Some were thfs and others had potential to be special. At the same time, we want the experience to be enjoyable, adding these moves to hq versions of our old guys will help bst out immensely. This way, bst affinity merits and gear will be unaffected. Our older guys would need to be updated anyway; Amigo , panzer, crafty, all crabs, all flies, all mandies, Dapper, and Sieghard. A few of these guys have a dated ability list and several were hit hard with the move removal, hence will still remain unused if the cap were lifted.
This has to be doable because these monsters are playable in-game, with the same abilities. Monstrosity removes the broken abilities it seems; %hp moves, doom, etc. SE recycles a plethora of mobs anyway, but sadly, they are missing several moves. Recently, the majority of bst request were shot down, but this is not a mountain of a suggestion. Just asking for older jugs to be released in their strongest form/ with their monstrosity move list (Via HQ). What do you think SE?