Red Mage and Dispel...

[Demonjustin]

With the update that just went by RUN got a special trait to their Runes and Wards. When 3 Runes are active the Ward buffs can't be dispelled. This makes them quite powerful in my opinion especially against NMs like those which are able to dispel multiple or all buffs a player has with a single attack.

My request is can RDM have an effect like this added to Composure that does one of two things.

A: Allows Composure to mitigate the number of enhancing effects removed.

B: Allows Composure to be dispelled while leaving other effects in place.



RDM is a job which relies on it's enhancing magic in many cases. When we try to nuke or enfeeble we need our buffs to aid our MND, INT, and Haste. When we try to melee we need STR/DEX, Temper, and Haste. We always need our enhancing magic but so many NMs in this game can wipe every single one in a single attack such as Tojil or Gessho. We have Protect, Shell, Stoneskin, Aquaveil, Phalanx, Haste, Bar-Element, Bar-Status, En-Spells, Temper, Regen, Refresh, Gain-Spells, Spike Spells, and Composure.

Mind you that is a total of 15 self buffs and only counts RDM's own buffs ignoring any subjob spells or buffs from other jobs such as BRD. I personally try to keep up 13 of these 15 buffs at all times and when they're all dispelled I completely retreat from a battle or prioritize my buffs over everything else until I'm finished applying them. The fact these wear off over time is bad enough and a Renew spell or ability has never been given to us despite the need for it. It would be wonderful if we could at least in some way be given a defense against this type of attack.

To add insult to injury, I remember when RDMs asked for Dispel II, or a Dispel that could remove 2+ status' from enemies we were told it would be overpowered. That's flat out insulting in a way when you look at monsters that can remove 20+ buffs with a single attack. Then there are other monsters such as Sand/Gigaworms that can flat out absorb our entire list of buffs which then require just as many dispels to remove them all.



tl;dr: RDM needs a way to defend against Dispel already. RDMs can have all buffs dispelled in a single attack while being unable to dispel even 2 effects from mobs at the same time due to it being 'over powered'.

[Draylo]

BLU gets a full dispel from UL :)

[Trangnai]

I'm glad you brought this up. It is like you are reading my mind. I've quickly been learning as of late that my buffs are seemingly worthless against most content that is worth anything. Most of my deaths have been due to things wiping my buffs and not necessarily due to my survivability and ability to take damage normally. RDM has always been a job that supported itself and others with enhancing magic and enfeebling magic, today we got news of a nice slew of spells being added to our arsenal. Yet it seems they won't matter unless they give us some solution to at least limit the despell effects of mobs.

[Rwolf]

I agree that it would be nice to have some sort of defense against dispel. I don't know if we should have A, which is pretty powerful. I do think Dispel should remain a flaw of RDM. Similar to how Amnesia can cripple a job like Dancer. Annoying but I get it. I do however, think your B idea would be really good. Composure is on a 5 minute recast. So being dispel immune once every 5 minutes sounds ok to me, or at least very dispel resistant.

On the Dispel II note. I completely agree that it makes no sense of being overpowered to add to our enfeebling arsenal. BLU now has a full dispel, not to mention a ton of dispel setting spells and SMN has had a subjob level "Dispel II" via Fenrir for awhile. I don't see the issue with it. It's not like Red Mage is suddenly going to be overpowered if they shave 10-20 seconds off spamming dispel for mobs that like to give 5+ buffs to themselves. It was our spell natively to begin with, we should be the most effective at its use.

[Rhonda]

These abilities are actually intended to make the game more difficult. Imagine how PLD feel when Palisade/Reprisal get wiped (especially if you use Priwen) or when a MNK loses Protect/Counterstance/Haste. These all suck. Getting dispelled is supposed to suck.

[Demonjustin]

These abilities are actually intended to make the game more difficult. Imagine how PLD feel when Palisade/Reprisal get wiped (especially if you use Priwen) or when a MNK loses Protect/Counterstance/Haste. These all suck. Getting dispelled is supposed to suck.There's a difference between dispelling 2~5 buffs and dispelling 15+ buffs. Abilities which dispel 3 effects like some Adamantoise can or other similar effects that are simply multi-dispel effects are just fine. The specific ones I have an issue with are those abilities which wipe every single buff a player has, in RDMs case this is literally upwards of 15 buffs when I do content such as Gessho. RUN in this most recent update got a special effect on it's runes which prevents ward effects from being dispelled by enemies when you have 3 runes active. RUN is a job with some high Enhancing Magic but it's by no means at the same level as RDM and I can think of no good reason RDM shouldn't have at least something similar to prevent buffs from being dispelled when RDM is the most powerful Enhancing Magic job.

[saevel]

These abilities are actually intended to make the game more difficult. Imagine how PLD feel when Palisade/Reprisal get wiped (especially if you use Priwen) or when a MNK loses Protect/Counterstance/Haste. These all suck. Getting dispelled is supposed to suck.

Except it doesn't add difficulty, it only makes us use RNG's and Aegis/OChain PLD.

SE has really gone overboard with making too many of the boss NM's have multi-dispell moves that they spam. It was a tactic to prevent buffing melee's and zerging but it's backfired and now we just use RNG's who keep their buffs while plunking hate onto the tank. An occasional nuked buff here or there still adds challenge without forcing everyone to cheese the fights.

[Babekeke]

Since you brought up the 'bonus' to RUN, I'd just like to add that these abilities still suck. The only real benefit to this update of runes not being dispelled is that you can instantly hit vivacious pulse, and you can hit vallation/valliance to re-buff yourself faster, and you can hit Battuta if you saved it for such an occasion.

However, being hit by a WKR/Delve NM after you just had protect/cocoon/phalanx/stoneskin etc all removed, even in a full -PDT set, you still die pretty quickly afterwards!

[Demonjustin]

This is flat out fucking stupid...

http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i372/demon6324236/Flatoutfuckingstupid.png

[Martel]

This is flat out fucking stupid...

http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i372/demon6324236/Flatoutfuckingstupid.png
*Slow Clap*

Way to post a screen shot of a log that's been modified by a third party tool on the Official SE forum. I stand in awe of your sheer chutzpah, sir.

[Shirai]

*Slow Clap*

Way to post a screen shot of a log that's been modified by a third party tool on the Official SE forum. I stand in awe of your sheer chutzpah, sir.


http://cdn.meme.li/instances/250x250/52242619.jpg

[Martel]

Not really. I don't care at all who uses what 3rd pt tool. I was just entertained by the sheer brazenness of waving it in SE's face on their own doorstep.

Carry on.

Edit: Oh damn, I should have said; "Does that make you the Black Knight? and Do you always triumph? XD

[Demonjustin]

I've little issue saying flat out that I use it. It's why my last account was banned and why I had to make this one, and if they were to ban this one I'd simply make yet another and cancel this one. Honestly, it's little more than a vain attempt to hide a failure on their part to satisfy their player's want for a better interface. In general they seem to have accepted that people work around those very failures in order to achieve a more viable interface, it's only when you go far outside of that range that they will take any true action against you. I mean, honestly I've went so far as to talk to GMs about things like that blatantly and I've yet to be banned even once on the game itself, which kinda surprised even me. So~ in the end, yeah, it may seem ballsy, but it's nothing I've not done over the last 3 years, and it's nothing I won't continue to do.

[Martel]

I see. I'd wondered if it was intentional or not. Well, thanks for the entertainment, and carry on.

[Tidis]

You generally get a temp forum ban for discussing windower plugins/addons here, regardless of whether they tolerate it or not, it's probably best not to talk about or post screenshots of their use since it is against the ToS.

As for full dispel, it can suck but I can't see it as a problem personally since anything that does full dispel is still easily killed, especially Kumhau in the example given, he loses access to his full dispel move when you drop his aura.

[Demonjustin]

I just think RDM should have a way to prevent everything from being dispelled due to how buff heavy it is. On the front lines a RDM's entire ability to keep up is brought by it's buffs, rip that away and you take away everything a RDM has. No other job has that type of liability. I'm not saying we shouldn't be susceptible to such things, but I think we should be able to block it in some way such as making it so Composure is removed instead if it's active. It would give Composure an additional benefit for backline mages, who currently only need to use it during buff cycles then remove it, and it would allow frontline RDMs a single block of full buff wipes at the cost of their Accuracy boost.

In my opinion, it would be a fair tradeoff that both has a cost, but allows the RDM to survive and maintain most of their power on the frontlines without requiring them to back off to rebuff. In my opinion by not having a way to stop this, we're put at a massive disadvantage against other jobs in any frontline situation where this is possible. It'd be like if BLUs could have their traits from their spells dispelled by mobs, because when you think about it, a RDM's primary source of Double Attack, quite a bit of fSTR/dDEX, and almost all of our attack speed, comes simply from self buffs, unlike other jobs which get a great amount of traits and gear to give these very things in amounts we never see..

[Metaking]

i hate to rain on your fiesta, but you losing your buffs to a dispel and instantly being able to recast them (50% fast cast on rdm is trivial to get, and 80 is only slightly hard) vrs say a drk who just poped all his ja's isnt even in the same realm of bad news, i mean that drk is pretty much useless for the next 5 mins >.>; well excluding stun but dmg wize, above average or better thf will be schooling him. Only traits that help attack speed are DW, but that actually comes with a price. I do agree tho, se needs to limit these full dispels to like a monsters panic button. I do find it funny you went after blus job traits over its buffs tho, which also suck to lose, and we have to generally juggle 4 sometimes more (haste, refresh, coccon, meditation), and unlike rdm, blu keeping its buffs up becomes a huge mana issue if dispel keeps flying.

[Demonjustin]

BLU traits just came more to mind as Double Attack is one of our largest buffs that stand out that we simply don't get via gear and is dispelled in cases like this. It~ wasn't so much my key point, but more or less the first thing that came to mind, especially since it's something that can't be dispelled but gives quite a bit of power by simply setting spells rather than casting them.

[Shirai]

Not really. I don't care at all who uses what 3rd pt tool. I was just entertained by the sheer brazenness of waving it in SE's face on their own doorstep.
Considering their current trend of making sure people breaking the ToS get penalized (as in, not), I would be terribly surprised if this screenshot will have any more consequenses than people blatantly pointing it out.


Edit: Oh damn, I should have said; "Does that make you the Black Knight? and Do you always triumph? XD
As black as my coffee, and nah, my life would be too boring if I always win.

[Dale]

With the update that just went by RUN got a special trait to their Runes and Wards. When 3 Runes are active the Ward buffs can't be dispelled. This makes them quite powerful in my opinion especially against NMs like those which are able to dispel multiple or all buffs a player has with a single attack.

My request is can RDM have an effect like this added to Composure that does one of two things.

A: Allows Composure to mitigate the number of enhancing effects removed.

B: Allows Composure to be dispelled while leaving other effects in place.



RDM is a job which relies on it's enhancing magic in many cases. When we try to nuke or enfeeble we need our buffs to aid our MND, INT, and Haste. When we try to melee we need STR/DEX, Temper, and Haste. We always need our enhancing magic but so many NMs in this game can wipe every single one in a single attack such as Tojil or Gessho. We have Protect, Shell, Stoneskin, Aquaveil, Phalanx, Haste, Bar-Element, Bar-Status, En-Spells, Temper, Regen, Refresh, Gain-Spells, Spike Spells, and Composure.

Mind you that is a total of 15 self buffs and only counts RDM's own buffs ignoring any subjob spells or buffs from other jobs such as BRD. I personally try to keep up 13 of these 15 buffs at all times and when they're all dispelled I completely retreat from a battle or prioritize my buffs over everything else until I'm finished applying them. The fact these wear off over time is bad enough and a Renew spell or ability has never been given to us despite the need for it. It would be wonderful if we could at least in some way be given a defense against this type of attack.

To add insult to injury, I remember when RDMs asked for Dispel II, or a Dispel that could remove 2+ status' from enemies we were told it would be overpowered. That's flat out insulting in a way when you look at monsters that can remove 20+ buffs with a single attack. Then there are other monsters such as Sand/Gigaworms that can flat out absorb our entire list of buffs which then require just as many dispels to remove them all.



tl;dr: RDM needs a way to defend against Dispel already. RDMs can have all buffs dispelled in a single attack while being unable to dispel even 2 effects from mobs at the same time due to it being 'over powered'.

It's incredibly annoying how some of the NMs on this game spam massive dispels so I'm with you on this. But this isn't just a Red Mage issue in particular so I don't think it would be fair to just give us some special way to avoid it while everyone else suffers. Having a fully charged sublimation dispelled for example is even more annoying than having your composure wiped.

Best thing to do is just prioritize one or maybe two buffs and focus on those and just learn to live without the others. Because making Red mage immune to dispel - while it would be very nice - would also be way too powerful in my opinion.

[Dale]

i hate to rain on your fiesta, but you losing your buffs to a dispel and instantly being able to recast them (50% fast cast on rdm is trivial to get, and 80 is only slightly hard) vrs say a drk who just poped all his ja's isnt even in the same realm of bad news, i mean that drk is pretty much useless for the next 5 mins >.>; well excluding stun but dmg wize, above average or better thf will be schooling him. Only traits that help attack speed are DW, but that actually comes with a price. I do agree tho, se needs to limit these full dispels to like a monsters panic button. I do find it funny you went after blus job traits over its buffs tho, which also suck to lose, and we have to generally juggle 4 sometimes more (haste, refresh, coccon, meditation), and unlike rdm, blu keeping its buffs up becomes a huge mana issue if dispel keeps flying.

That's how I feel too. This is more of an issue of SE going over-board with some of their NM abilities. This isn't something unique to Red Mages.