How to Tank with RUN -- A simple guide

[Mugly]

Hey guys, so I've been playing a ton of Rune Fencer and learning the ins and outs of this job. A lot of what I'll be saying is probably going to be a repetition of something you may have heard or already know, but there seem to be a lot of people who don't seem to get how to really make RUN 'work', let alone as a tank.

First, some clarification: This is at 99, doing adoulin content (WKR's and Delves, specifically). I'm not especially well geared-- was in mostly sparks gear for a while but recently upgraded to the new homestead and tier 6 peacekeepers gear (head, body, boots of schneddick, hands of weatherspoon (for cure+% mostly), and one of the WKR pants I think, can't recall which specific one). I have some pretty good accessories including my JSE cape. So roughly 117 level gear, but not totally decked out with the best. However, you'll see that it's not that important if you play smart.

That isn't to say that good gear isn't important, of course; I saw an appreciable difference in how strong I was in fights, how much easier I held hate, and the general ease of keeping myself alive and buffed after upgrading.

Also: This is all with /RDM on. I haven't gotten to mess around with other subs as much (mostly due to lack of having most appropriate ones leveled), but I really haven't had much need to. RDM gives RUN a ton of flexibility, and fast cast and convert are really handy when you burn through MP. Looking at things, I'd be able to argue that BLU is also a decent sub; potent heals, cocoon, some other nice attacks to generate hate. I haven't actually tried it, though. Don't bother subbing BLM for the magic attack bonus; it's not really worth it. DRK might be okay but again, it kind of defeats the purpose of all your magic defense stuff.

The first thing I want to point out is that RUN isn't a DD. Yes, it can have some impressive spike damage with lunge, swipe, and resolution. But the cooldowns ensure that this means you can't really spam it. So how do you keep hate if you can't compete with the DD's? Well, it's pretty simple: You rack up Damage-volative enmity (CE) and then NOT TAKE DAMAGE.

Okay, that sounds weird, but with the fast cast bonus from Inspiration fully merited, you can get a 30% stoneskin cast time. That makes it very difficult for you to ever get interrupted. Throw in some Blink if you like, and Phalanx to make it last longer.

Bam, you are now holding hate. Throw out a flash and resolution now and again to keep it up whenever you do take damage, keep refresh up for MP, and you're basically untouchable. I can handle WKR and Delve NM's with very little trouble, only a few emergency heals from big attacks if I don't manage to liement or one for all them.

The way RUN is meant to be played isn't so much relying on parry or evasion to mitigate physical damage, but to keep casting your defensive spells to make yourself withstand any kind of damage, physical or non. The bonus of this is that a lot of end game major attacks are magical, so even if they bust down your stoneskin, you have a ton of magical defense as well as liement to absorb it. This makes you pretty dang powerful, and I don't even have that much -pdt on at all.

There are a few downsides to this playstyle:
-You will burn your MP fast. I found meriting my MP to be a good decision. Keeping refresh up will help a ton.
-You won't deal a ton of damage. Like, at all. While you can tank a ton of stuff you rely heavily on others to actually kill the monster for you. Lower level stuff mostly gets one shotted by lunge though.
-While you aren't as reliant on a devoted healer as a PLD might be, you do have a different kind of synergy with your allies, and choosing your teammates is a different dynamic than for a PLD. Whereas a PLD would love a WHM and a BRD, and then a potent DD like RNG or MNK, RUN just needs a good DD and maybe a sub-healer to work things over. GEO is a good ally, as are many physical jobs due to your aoe defensive buffs. BLM's are your best friend if you love to use Gambit (which can generate a ton of hate, btw).

You shouldn't really worry about doing anything other than buffing yourself and your allies, and making sure you watch for chances to nullify attacks with Valliance, Liement, or One for All. Use Lunge and Resolution whenever you can (I'm assuming Dimidiation will also be very powerful), and you'll have a hard time losing hate to anyone. Flash can be spammed as well, and is very useful for grabbing emergency hate after eating a big hit.

With the new update coming out for the new enmity spell and WS/TP buffs/changes, this will likely become even easier to hold hate. A lot of people bash on RUN for not being a 'real tank', but with the recent additions, RUN is definitely challenging PLD's place on the tank throne.

[Babekeke]

Hmmm, you don't even mention the fact that using Battuta will mean you save MP for the duration due to rarely having to re-buff.

And get all your AF and Relic gear! then choose some pieces to make 119 (for tanking, you really want relic head and body for certain. The rest are up to you and how much gil you want to spend).

[Mugly]

I didn't go into great detail here because it was meant to be just a simple overview of why RUN is actually a good tank and how to play it to effectively utilize it's abilities properly. Of course there are many spells and abilities and specific situations that I didn't go into here for the sake of brevity.

I do have AF and Relic but it's not that good until it's upgraded, and upgrading costs time and money. I only returned to the game a few months ago so I don't have the requirements to really get the items I need easily. But it is definitely something I'm working on.

[Damane]

I was inclined to stop reading when you mentioned /RDM; but i proceeded on.

tanking WKR and Delve 1.0 can be done by almost ANY job, I have tanked all WKR on SCH/RDM while nukeing and holding hate (better then the plds because t1 nukes can deal 1.5k + or more and you can spam them), I have hold/tanked Delve 1.0 bosses on SCH if something went on the downside.

Unless you are talking about Hardmode Mission battles D or VD stuff or Delve 2.0 stuff, its not very good information (albeit still info). None of the stuff you mentioned hits very hard for a decent/good geared players that knows what they are doing on their job (PDT/MDT sets etc.). Hardmode mission battles on D and ESPECIALLY VD are a different story. i would like to hear how you handled those

[Mugly]

What subjob would you recommend, if not RDM?

I haven't done hardmode missions yet, mostly due to lack of a LS (like I said, returning player). Obviously some things will be difficult for RUN to tank, just like there are some difficult things for PLD to tank. I can certainly update more info once I do them, but this was more for the people who think RUN should be a DD or whatever (Despite the fact that, you know, they have no attack bonuses whatsoever).

[Aeron]

What subjob would you recommend, if not RDM?

I haven't done hardmode missions yet, mostly due to lack of a LS (like I said, returning player). Obviously some things will be difficult for RUN to tank, just like there are some difficult things for PLD to tank. I can certainly update more info once I do them, but this was more for the people who think RUN should be a DD or whatever (Despite the fact that, you know, they have no attack bonuses whatsoever).

There is a very good guide on ffxiah rune fencer forum. To answer you question quickly though /nin and /blu are much better tanking options then /rdm. The problem with /rdm is it doesn't really bring anything to the table the run can't do itself besides haste which isn't really your responsibility if you're tanking.

[Kote]

I've, done /rdm for the fastcast early on but convert is still a risky gamble. Red Mage is also was a better choice for lunge/swipe only because Rune Fencer doesnt have native MAB I&II. Subbing Red Mage will always give more lunge/swipe, fast cast, and even more resist petrify (if needed). If anything redmage is just a playstyle that to me is more on speed cast, burst damage and magic burst damage (more often with swipe than lunge).

I've done mostly /whm only to reduce my spelllist with things I have no skill in, and to have access to bar-aga, and more divine spells to skill with on reives. Not to mention /whm also give you the ability to remove stattus effects when needed. It won't give much on fastcast, mab, and atk if at all. I just like having access to offensive magic spells I actually have a B skill in besides flash. As I see it, it'll be good in Ra'kaznar, but also gives the ability to use elemental/stattus buffs on people in the front line and save the whm some time with them.

With Rune's abilities its an extra buff considering our enhancing skill is beyond a Paladins and slightly higher than a White Mage's. Bar- will last longer unless Rdm, Sch or Whm can increase the duration or effect on their targets. Best run has is on relic pants to reduce cast time -12% & increase duration of buffs +10. This should also work with stoneskin. I dont know how it translates to aoe tatgets but it also enhances Inspiration, although I cant find any info as to the effects of the relic augments (the body is probably +15 like most of the other main 1hr mods). Divine seal and Cure IV as an emergency backup/hate gain. Paladin will always do more divine dmg and hate on flash. Tranquil heart is a nonissue since Rune has no native healing skill for it to mean anything. Most of what well be casting with /Rdm is already on rune and whm (but in aga). I just don't see why rune would use elemental magics from /rdm. The only ones usefull would be from /blm as burn drown,rasp, etc.. Enfeebling and Elemental would be resisted by many mobs due to Rune only has Divine and Enhancing magic skills. That's what Rayke was ment for, but to support other spell casters when stun, sleep, etc becomes resisted.

Again I think its playstyle. I only have 3 merrits on Inspiration, with 5 on Battuta, 1 Rayke, 1 Slight of sword (because someone had to). I'd probably should be playing /rdm for the fastcast and Mab. At best the majority of hate gain would be our magic damage from runes, lunge, spikes. Theres a bunch of Mab accessories that increase Enmity besides weapons and gear, as well as dot that increase hate gain or adds subtle blow. Swapping between Artifact, Relic and other gear based on the enemy and what job abilities are being used might be the big difference between Rune and Paladin. I rarely notice a Paladin swaping gear based on what job ability is being used and tanking. Especially -dmg or pdt for +hate on provoke or more dot. At best between Artifact and Relic, Rune Fencer can swap between Hp Regen and Mp refresh modes of tanking, given they have enough -pdt -dmg accessories. Especially with refresh II from rdm, brd songs, dice, & geo bubbles. Hp and mp and occ dmg shouldnt be much of a problem with passive(-enmity) support.

Given how Rune doesn't aproach dealing damage like drk, war or drg does. Part of Run tanking is -dmg, +Enmity, +support. Since Rune Fencer can't deal tons of physical damage to draw hate with great sword. All we can do is slow the Enmity loss down and melee like a paladin without double atk. Then spam swipe and lunge when we can to boost dmg output. Although, Rune should have had tripple attack I once we got over level 50 or 75. Despite having a Great Sword, Rune Fencer may have the damage ratio on par with a Paladins sword swing. With everything else being what pld does to keep hate only without the help of /war. My theory is dual weilding swords and having multi-hit gear might increase the dot and parry proc with enmity gain, but be less likely to main tank as effectively. Spinning Slash won't chain llike resolution. Even with 3 merrits on it, I've seen SS frequently do more damage and doesn't miss as much as Ground Strike. Untill someone can confirm that Caudata gives more acc across multi-hit weapon skills than elemental belts. Caudata belt should be the main thing to use on the single hit weapon skills and Rune's Great sword is on that list. At least on weapon skills we can generate more enimity and damage than a Paladin and gear swap more freely for whatever we need to do to fight Paladin's top spot on the mobs hate list.

However regardless of what sub you have, if you can bounce hate between a Paladin and yourself, and not over burden the healers. While keeping the mob's focus away from everyone else. Then keep doing whatever it is you're doing, because it's getting the job done. Untill someone can successfully play Run/War like a Pld/War and post it... The over all debate for Run/??? and tanking will aways boil down to, "...if it works".

---after thought---

Now that I think about it. If you can sucessfully dual weild Rune up the double/tripple atk, and increase subtle blow on gear. Would Sleight of sword make sense? Honestly Sword play is like that one nin spell or earthen armor when it comes to avoiding massive damage. So why have a subtle blow merit mod? Unless there was a way to DoT Rune to the point where it feed tp and caused the mob to use TP moves much more frequently. It only makes sence if Rune were fighting that one NM that used tyrant tusk and had to avoid feeding tp to keep it from using moves that would wipe the acc/evade boost. Doesnt make sense to have it in a party set up as everyone else will feed tp, and defeat the purpose.

[Mugly]

That's some good points. I never thought about /NIN before but thinking about it, it would be a natural option for RUN (inspiration utsusemi would be pretty great). WHM sounds good for general things, then /rdm or /nin for big fights. I usually solo or duo with a DD friend a lot so I end up need the cures from RDM sub, but if I've got a healer, yeah RDM becomes kind of pointless. I do have NIN leveled so I'll give that a shot and see how it mixes for me.

And I do agree that "If it works, it works" in regards to the subjob choices. RUN basically has everything it needs to do what it needs to do, the subjob just adds a bit more versatility in certain directions.

[Kote]

That's some good points. I never thought about /NIN before but thinking about it, it would be a natural option for RUN (inspiration utsusemi would be pretty great). WHM sounds good for general things, then /rdm or /nin for big fights. I usually solo or duo with a DD friend a lot so I end up need the cures from RDM sub, but if I've got a healer, yeah RDM becomes kind of pointless. I do have NIN leveled so I'll give that a shot and see how it mixes for me.

And I do agree that "If it works, it works" in regards to the subjob choices. RUN basically has everything it needs to do what it needs to do, the subjob just adds a bit more versatility in certain directions.

I've seen Run/Nin in some videos in Abyssea tanking various NM's. Its very possible, that BC fight in Quiesience even has your oponent dual weilding swords and dealing magic damage on each sword swing. However, remember the only Ninjutsu rune can truely fast cast is utsumi with magoraga beads for an extra -10% on cast time w/ aquaveil. Otherwise they will be interrupted as often as other jobs that /nin. On that note, While Run/nin has been seen to work in Abyssea and various older areas on par with the old Nin tanks. Adoulin is a different story. There is alot of things that will wipe shadows in one hit, you will not have tool expertise on shihei. I'd just experement, since blink tanking hasnt been what it use to be since new content can wipe shadows in one attack.

[Babekeke]

There's no real debate... IF you're tanking it's /BLU unless the mob hits incredibly hard but slow, then it's /NIN.

[Damane]

There's no real debate... IF you're tanking it's /BLU unless the mob hits incredibly hard but slow, then it's /NIN.

ecxept if you have the RUN ergon weapon/mythic then its /sam :P

[Babekeke]

except if you have the RUN ergon weapon/mythic then its /sam :P

Lol and how many of those are there knocking about already?

P.S. the new WS appears good enough so far that I can get rid of my resolution merits \o/

[Damane]

Lol and how many of those are there knocking about already?

P.S. the new WS appears good enough so far that I can get rid of my resolution merits \o/

give me time 3100/9999 on last stage atm ._.

[Kote]

give me time 3100/9999 on last stage atm ._.

Did you realy get that far from just from spamming as much coalition quests, reives and a ton of skirmish? Also is it like trading Alex? So you dont need all of it at once and she'll keep track of where youre at?

[Babekeke]

I really want to make my own, but I can't stand spamming dynamis. I should really cap out my leathercraft again and try to find a way of making lots of money through that.

[Damane]

Did you realy get that far from just from spamming as much coalition quests, reives and a ton of skirmish? Also is it like trading Alex? So you dont need all of it at once and she'll keep track of where youre at?
of course not, i had to bleed alot of gil out, and alot of Ls members helped.

well stage 1 is: 100 HP bayld and 1 fight
stage 2 is: 500 HP bayld and 200 ghastly stones + 3 delve 1.0 craft items (dont know by mind anymore)
stage 3 is: 2500 HP bayld and 200 verdigist stones + 3 delve 2.0 craft items
stage 4 is: 9999 HP bayld and 200 wailing stones + 2.5 million plasm item

and it is like tradeing alex,

you need max rank in all coalition to start the quest. its easier and cheaper to do a normal job mythic atm then doing a run or geo mythic, H-P bayld is hard to come by

[Babekeke]

you need max rank in all coalition to start the quest.

Not quite true, you need Legend in all coalitions. They since added a new rank.

[Malithar]

Not quite true, you need Legend in all coalitions. They since added a new rank.

They didn't. That was apparently an NA only text bug that was fixed with this last update. Anyone who had the "scout's !" etc rank has been set back to Legend.

[Babekeke]

Oh from the bug fix notes, I was under the impression that there was a new rank, but the name of it was wrong.

[Malithar]

Yeah, their bug announcement about it wasn't very clear. A topic was made (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/42525-Scouts-%28and-possibly-others%29-Rank8-listing) about it that got some localization attention and they clarified. As of this update, it actually was fixed.

[Babekeke]

Back on topic of tanking as a RUN... using Crusade gives you +30 enmity. Very useful. I find in a WKR that if I'm first person to the mob now, I won't ever lose hate, unless my NPCs die and noone else bothers to cure me, that is. Some nasty moves used by some of the WKR bosses I've found... Dispel all being one particularly nasty one, even in a full PDT (mine is 49%) set it's not nice to drop from 1400+ def to ~700 or whatever I'm at without protect and cocoon.

[Kote]

Back on topic of tanking as a RUN... using Crusade gives you +30 enmity. Very useful. I find in a WKR that if I'm first person to the mob now, I won't ever lose hate, unless my NPCs die and noone else bothers to cure me, that is. Some nasty moves used by some of the WKR bosses I've found... Dispel all being one particularly nasty one, even in a full PDT (mine is 49%) set it's not nice to drop from 1400+ def to ~700 or whatever I'm at without protect and cocoon.

So the whole Run/blu set is just for the cocoon buff? Does rune relic pants aply to blue spells like cocoon? With all things considered I'm suprised /war never worked out for Rune Fencer tanks like it did for Paladin (defender and provoke).


, H-P bayld is hard to come by

I just found out wkr has the highest drop rate but you really need alot of reive momentum to get a sack that drops multiples of hp-bayld.

----

Right now some folks are saying the Ergon GS is to Rune as Aegis is to a Paladin. Dont know why but the fact is, unless it goes past the ~23%~25% parry cap. Even with Aettir or Epeolatry. If a Rune Fencer is dual tanking with a Paladin, the Rune Fencer should be inback of the Paladin. This way the Paladin can use "Cover" on the Rune Fencer to reduce their overall physical damage for ~30 seconds. With Aegis or Ochain, this can help when buffs need to be reaplied on Rune. With the right gear Paladins can redirect magic damage with cover and gain some mp off it. If a Rune is tanking with Epeolatry, would Liement also redirect the remaining magic damage to Paladins health as well?

However the reverse can also be said if Rune takes hate and Paladin needs a breath for hp, mp or buffs. Then Rune could use Crusade with Battuta and parry block for paladin untill Paladin is ready to use crusade and steal hate back with provoke, Bash, and other enmity spells.

[Babekeke]

So the whole Run/blu set is just for the cocoon buff? Does rune relic pants aply to blue spells like cocoon?

Mainly, though there are a couple of other bonuses. Defense bonus and attack bonus JTs. Wild Carrot can help out when needed, also healing breeze if the party gets slept, or just to grab a chunk of hate. Also Blank Gaze, Jettatura and another (poison breath?) give high amounts of enmity if needed. Or you can just set spells based on what stats they give when set (eg bomb toss and blastbomb for STR etc.)
Oh, also when solo, you have 10% haste from refuelling.


With all things considered I'm suprised /war never worked out for Rune Fencer tanks like it did for Paladin (defender and provoke).

Cocoon gives more def with no attack loss. PLDs have also used /BLU in the past for the same reason, but without inspiration, it's easy to get interrupted.

[Martel]

Don't use poison breath, please. It doesn't have a special enmity value or anything. It just had a good dmg/mp ratio at 75, which made it an "ok" spell for enmity for BLU main. /blu would just get resisted.

[Babekeke]

Don't use poison breath, please. It doesn't have a special enmity value or anything. It just had a good dmg/mp ratio at 75, which made it an "ok" spell for enmity for BLU main. /blu would just get resisted.

Fair enough. I was never sure how it gave enmity for /blu so I've never bothered to set it anyway.

And TBH as RUN, if you can hit all 6 people in your party with Valiance, while you have Crusade up and if you're using Aettir, you get 7560 VE and 3780 CE. This is more even than Invincible or Elemental Sforzo give as base (obviously with aettir and crusade on they give more again), and you can use Valiance every 5 mins.

So you really don't need any enmity spells as /BLU, but they can be handy if you've had hate reset and valiance isn't up.

[Aeron]

Fair enough. I was never sure how it gave enmity for /blu so I've never bothered to set it anyway.

And TBH as RUN, if you can hit all 6 people in your party with Valiance, while you have Crusade up and if you're using Aettir, you get 7560 VE and 3780 CE. This is more even than Invincible or Elemental Sforzo give as base (obviously with aettir and crusade on they give more again), and you can use Valiance every 5 mins.

So you really don't need any enmity spells as /BLU, but they can be handy if you've had hate reset and valiance isn't up.

That is a ridiculous amount of enmity. Really pisses me off that they got runs ja enmity values right and pld enmity values suck.

[Babekeke]

That is a ridiculous amount of enmity. Really pisses me off that they got runs ja enmity values right and pld enmity values suck.

You're right, though at least PLD gets a lot more +enmity on their gear that they're wearing most of the time anyway. Flash does a lot more for PLD than it does for RUN, but it doesn't really make up for it.

When I team up with a PLD to dual-tank stuff, I let him take initial hate while I just hit the mob once, then make sure that all of the party is within range before using Valiance. BOOM! now I'm tanking :) PLD doesn't stand a chance at all, really. I usually then pop Battuta and once it wears I stand behind the PLD for cover while I get all my necessary buffs up. Then hit swordplay. When that wears, Battuta is up again... rinse and repeat.

I even find myself buffing the PLD with the likes of refresh (if we don't have a RDM) and regen (if we don't have a SCH) just to make sure that they are alive/have MP to cure me if anything goes Pete Tong.

Was really strange fighting delve NMs for beads in margarine ravine. Aegis PLD died a couple of times, but I didn't. Both of us Tarus.

[Martel]

You're right, though at least PLD gets a lot more +enmity on their gear that they're wearing most of the time anyway. Flash does a lot more for PLD than it does for RUN, but it doesn't really make up for it.
On the flip side of that coin, RUN spell recasts are a lot better than PLDs. Owing to the massive fastcast RUN has. So while a PLD might have a more potent flash, a RUN will pump out more casts.

[Damane]

On the flip side of that coin, RUN spell recasts are a lot better than PLDs. Owing to the massive fastcast RUN has. So while a PLD might have a more potent flash, a RUN will pump out more casts.

thats true, but plds have the safety net of cureing themself if needed (not that cures give much enmity), which RUN does not have, they are totally at the mercy of their healer/support. considerign they take more physical dmg it also makes sense for them to preduce more enmity, sinse they loose alot more via physical hits then pld.