View Full Version : Another...Herb Pastoral?
Ok I thought I'd finally ask, there's sword madrigal, blade madrigal, sheepfoe mambo, dragonfoe mambo, advancing march, victory march....but, herb pastoral....and...? Also fowl aubade...and......? Where is it all? Or did they just not bother because no1 seemed to notice or care?
Babekeke
06-15-2014, 03:54 PM
I discovered the other day that I'm missing half of the 'bar-status-type' spells. And I've never ever needed them.
Byrth
06-15-2014, 11:11 PM
There are actually some full spells in the .dats that are unused (like Chocobo Hum and Cactuar Fugue). However, if asking for bard updates this would be the bottom of the bottom of my list of things to ask for.
Like I said, is that the reason it's been bypassed, because some people think it's worthless? Keep in mind a lot of enemies poison and with at least 2 pastorals all of it might have been avoided, oh wait you all just sub white or dancer so ya just can't be bothered....then you wonder why they mess up so many mages' spells
Malithar
06-16-2014, 07:02 AM
wut?
Enhanced resist buffs for any enhancing class that is only able to put up 2-5 buffs, with all 2-5 being used to actually kill the target faster, or to maintain better efficiency, will never, ever have a place. Specific to your example, Poison. The only time they've really had a deadly poison effect is when it's a high value and it's an aura. Other than that, Poisona. Silly to buff resistance in the face of out right removing the effect.
My point is that Bard is not only missing a 2nd tier herb pastoral, but fowl aubade, warding round, gold capriccio, goblin gavotte and shining fantasia too. Yes I realize most don't care to "waste" a song on prevention but you never know they could start nerfing bards all crazy and it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Now it could be reasoned that the rest don't have a higher tier because they're high already (2nd tier warding round would have to be 90+ for example) but at least herb and fowl and possibly goblin they could give us. As a matter of fact, no I'd rather they gave us 2nd tier for them all it really wouldn't make sense otherwise. What of it SE?
Creelo
06-17-2014, 03:22 AM
No, just no.
As a bard I say I'd rather have something useful added... not this. I cast those spells only when skilling up...
Like I said, I realize most completely overlook both bard and mages's preventive spells so it's easy to say "we don't need it give us X instead" but all they have to do is change things up like they've done countless times, then what? Then everyone is going to be hopping on the forums hollering all crazy to change it back or whatever and it could all (possibly) be avoided by simply asking for the missing spells. I mean think they put them all there for a reason you really think they aren't going to change things up sooner or later so that you need it? Eh why did I bother you won't believe me until it comes to pass anyway.
Malithar
06-17-2014, 09:39 PM
Like I said, I realize most completely overlook both bard and mages's preventive spells so it's easy to say "we don't need it give us X instead" but all they have to do is change things up like they've done countless times, then what?
Detail a scenario where using one of your 2-5 songs on a party to potentially resist poison, blind, paralyze, sleep, bind, silence, curse, or petrification will be more beneficial than increasing the damage against the target or providing better sustainability for the group. There's really no way of "changing things up" here. Either the effect is so strong that it warrants removal (-na, erase, meds, getting out of the aura), or the effect is so inconsequential that it has almost 0 barring on the fight (most poison and bind effects, other's are easily cured). The only way these could ever be considered "useful" is if a Brd gets another song slot specifically for a resist spell, and even then, I'd want a carol over these.
Poison, bio, or curse the battlefield then block all corresponding -na spells. OR poison, bio and curse the battlefield and block all corresponding -na spells. Easy, cheap and petty...right up SE's alley. And yes you can go for carols but carols and the preventive spell is a better way especially if they do something that cheap and petty. Either that or hop on the forums and cry foul.
All right I'll do one better, I'll make a missing spell thread how's that eh? That way it's not just about bard songs everyone can list the spells that they feel are missing and hopefully get some of them added.
Babekeke
06-18-2014, 09:55 AM
Like I said, I realize most completely overlook both bard and mages's preventive spells so it's easy to say "we don't need it give us X instead" but all they have to do is change things up like they've done countless times, then what? Then everyone is going to be hopping on the forums hollering all crazy to change it back or whatever and it could all (possibly) be avoided by simply asking for the missing spells. I mean think they put them all there for a reason you really think they aren't going to change things up sooner or later so that you need it? Eh why did I bother you won't believe me until it comes to pass anyway.
Noone over-looks WHM's preventative spells. But that's because they are limited solely to only 1 barele and 1 barailment at a time. With WHM you don't have to compromise either barspell or haste.
If the DoT from poison is that big an issue, you're better off using paeon. If blind is such an issue, you're better off with madrigal. but even better, just come prepared!. Remedies, poison potions, echo drops. You can remove or prevent everything apart from petrification that these songs are designed for.
They're completely pointless.
Worse even than some of the ridiculous BLU spells!
Like I said if they're so pointless then why are they in the game? You (and apparently many others) see them that way but they put them in the game for a reason. Even if it is an illogical one sooner or later they are going to try to have us use them. Either that or start easing them out of the game since you all won't use them, then both bards and mages will be minus their bar spells, carol songs and all their preventive spells/songs. Oh but that's ok since YOU don't use them.
Babekeke
06-18-2014, 05:46 PM
Like I said if they're so pointless then why are they in the game?
http://www.blogsorciere.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/1356563040-vlcsnap-2012-10-27-23h25m28s213.png
You (and apparently many others) see them that way but they put them in the game for a reason. Even if it is an illogical one sooner or later they are going to try to have us use them.
You really don't seem to get it, do you? These spells will ONLY ever be useful if they can prevent enfeebles from an aura. They don't. So they have no use in the game.
Either that or start easing them out of the game since you all won't use them, then both bards and mages will be minus their bar spells, carol songs and all their preventive spells/songs. Oh but that's ok since YOU don't use them.
You say 'and mages' yet again, despite that I already told you that the whm spells ARE USEFUL as they aren't limited to how many buffs they can give to you. People use the WHM barspells.
And secondly, since when did SE EVER 'ease them out of the game'? Name a single spell that has been removed from ffxi since it started back in 2003.
Byrth
06-18-2014, 07:48 PM
To be more clear, barstatus spells (and barstatus songs) are just magic evasion against that particular status effect. Barelement spells and Carols increase resistance against their respective status effects and all forms of damage from that element.
We have no information on potency, but I would guess that it is pretty unlikely that you'd want to ever cast a Pastoral over a Water Carol (probably never). Thus, Barstatus spells/songs were poorly implemented and are nearly useless. The only reason it's occasionally worth casting barstatus spells is because you lose almost nothing from it.
I stopped responding to this thread because I assumed that "Blah" was a troll account based on the "Killthisgirl" character name and terrible ideas, but this is why barstatus songs are useless and likely don't have the potential to ever be useful.
Ah and then you start attacking me directly, nice. Excuse me Byrth but when have I EVER acted like a troll? When have I ever jumped in attacked someone's idea or constantly followed someone around to attack them? You don't like my ideas? Fine I won't post any but don't call me a troll jerk.
If barstatus songs actually prevented the enfeeble from landing at all, then they would be situationally useful. Since they don't, no one will ever use them. Really if you care about these spells so much, then call for the devs to make them 100% resist rate for the associated enfeeble, including auras. Otherwise, no one will ever care because they are 100 per cent pointless.
Ophannus
07-05-2014, 06:54 AM
Theres a lot of BRD spells never added, Massacre Elegy, Moogle's Rhapsody, Jester's Operetta,Cactuar Fugue, Protected Aria, Army Paeon VII, Devotee Serenade and bunch of others.
Glamdring
07-14-2014, 05:55 AM
and several of those are more useful than the ones we never used except in a macroed skill-up rotation, like herb or Goblin, Oph. I would think adding those would be more of a priority for career bards than a highly situational spell that is generally trumped by the utility of something else.
Although I must admit, I do find utility in the Carol spells, 2 Carols and a bar element spell and you are about as invulnerable to a single element as a rune, handy against Cerbs and bombs and the like, Astral Flows, etc., especially if your pt has geared solely for offense. And even that kind of thing is highly situational.
Babekeke
07-21-2014, 02:38 PM
Although I must admit, I do find utility in the Carol spells, 2 Carols and a bar element spell and you are about as invulnerable to a single element as a rune, handy against Cerbs and bombs and the like, Astral Flows, etc., especially if your pt has geared solely for offense. And even that kind of thing is highly situational.
I still think that Carol II should have been stronger tbh.
OK, Before posting I went to the Carol page to clarify, and realised that Carol 2 is more useful than it seems, offering a chance to annul the damage, but not offering any more resistance through gear/Marcato/SV. Wierd that I never knew that before o.0
It's nearly always a good idea to double check these things, like for example since most sub white mage anyway how about coupling baraera, barsilencera, wind carol II and pup's Operetta to see if it may help during fights with monsters that silence a lot. (PS of course don't try it if you're in a party or if it's going to get you booted).
Malithar
07-22-2014, 05:28 AM
Or don't be cheap and carry 800 gil Echo Drops, and keep getting your 3x Ballads rather than 1 Ballad and two songs that will more than likely not help you resist the effect.
Or stop being a jerk about how others choose to play....geez. You don't want to, you don't have to, after all if you would rather carry potions instead to free up song space by all means but for people who at least want to go for it to see if it works, go for it
Balloon
07-22-2014, 08:46 AM
I hate that argument so much. You're playing with other people, and I'd nope the hell out of a party where the whm would rather have wind carol than just carry some Meds.
They're pretty cheap, they instantly remove the effect, and they're 100% effective. There's no excuse.
Fine, all things considered you want to bulk up your inventory than cast a spell by all means, but if you'd rather cast a spell then bulk up your inventory that should be your choice also. But waylaying this thread in such a manner is also useless. What are you all doing? They aren't answering let it go.
Balloon
07-22-2014, 10:37 AM
"Bulk up your inventory" vs "Carry 1 stack of Echo drops which takes up 1 slot."
Another more accurate way to look at it:
"Reduce your mp gain, reducing your efficacy" vs "Carrying 1 item"
Babekeke
07-22-2014, 02:30 PM
I hate that argument so much. You're playing with other people, and I'd nope the hell out of a party where the whm would rather have wind carol than just carry some Meds.
They're pretty cheap, they instantly remove the effect, and they're 100% effective. There's no excuse.
The only time that I'd have to disagree with this is when fighting Celaeno, since it can make you naked, amnesia'd and medicated all at the same time, then can silence you. Though you'd have to be really unlucky for this to happen while your whm just happened to be meleeing to try and proc Hexa, lol.
VoiceMemo
07-22-2014, 07:59 PM
Most of these posts only consider 3 songs. Maybe if people would help brds with HMP/Cinders vs charge the going rate for them there would be more 4 song brds around. Thereby you could have 2x ballad and wind carol 2 and Operetta. The best of both options, or 3x ballad and either wind carol or Operetta.
Malithar
07-22-2014, 08:43 PM
I'd rather have 3x Ballad and a March, if you're talking a top end Brd. Even 2x Ballad and 2x March in some content for lower recast on Curagas. Shit, if it came down to it and Brds could do 10 songs, I'd still rather have... 3x Ballad 2x March 4x Paeon and Scherzo. There's just no way to spin resist silence when Echo Drops exist.
Babekeke
07-22-2014, 08:53 PM
for lower recast on Curagas
And don't forget Erase... holy crap, erase recast >.>
Sasaraixx
07-22-2014, 09:38 PM
Or stop being a jerk about how others choose to play....geez. You don't want to, you don't have to, after all if you would rather carry potions instead to free up song space by all means but for people who at least want to go for it to see if it works, go for it
If you are going to post on the forums, you need to have a thicker skin. No one has been rude to you in anyway. People have just pointed out the fallacies in your arguments.
If you want to have the songs just for the sake of completion, that is fine. But do not try to spin this in any other way. Singing any of those other songs over the normal ballad, matches, etc. will always be less effective. Those songs really are useless, especially when you factor job that you will likely be with a Mage who can cast the spell versions. You also aren't listening to the people who have explained to you that those songs won't help with resistance anyway. You're going to need Na spells or meds either way.
No one is telling you how to play. They are just telling you that it is not the best/ most efficient way.
As others have said, Carols can be situationally useful and I am not including them with the status songs.
Or don't be cheap and carry 800 gil Echo Drops, and keep getting your 3x Ballads rather than 1 Ballad and two songs that will more than likely not help you resist the effect.
please stop talking logically. Also, if anyone's gonna do baraera, it should be the whm... sub job baraera is gimp