@SquareEnix: Kickstarter campaign to get a graphic upgrade?

[Emdief]

I'm sorry if this has already been asked, but as a returning player I was wondering if this was actually a possibility.
I'm an editor for the italian videogames' press, and I'm in touch with several journalists and editors who would help to spread the word across the web. Is there any chance the community could help SE to re-do FFXI graphics or at least release some serious texture pack?
Beside console users, I believe a graphic boost would help a lot in terms of visibility and it could be a way to get new players into the game. I understand the game doesn't have many players online anymore, but letting the game slowly die wouldn't make much sense, if the company can still get some money out of it.
Can you guys discuss about how much money you would need to make some kind of texture pack? Or maybe release some tools for the community to start working on it?
Epic Games is doing a wonderful job with the new Unreal Tournament by working together with the community, and I believe we could help as well if you would allow us to.
I'm sure many of the players would pay to get a graphic boost in FFXI, and Kickstarter is a beautiful way to get things done nowadays. Please consider this possibility SE, the community would most likely assist you guys.

[Raydeus]

Personally I'd like an HD texture pack and a serious PC optimization (DX11/12 and maybe mantle and Open GL support) of the client. Things like a reworked UI that looked the same but had a much quicker response (at times it can take more than a few seconds to get the macro pallet to show up and be able to press macros for instance) and much longer draw distance that actually worked among many others.

Other than that the game looks good to me the way it is now, which is pretty awesome considering how old the game is and how it can still hold it's ground against many newer games that look flashy but have crappy models and style in comparison.

Either way a Kickstarter would be a great way to see how viable it would be for SE to invest in these things. We've talked about it in other threads before, but it has never been more than idle chatter.

[Sixtythree]

FFXI is in dire need of optimization for modern PC's. The performance of this game on modern hardware is pretty bad.

[Zarchery]

Square Enix is a rather large international corporation. Not some individual or fledgling startup. Kickstarter seems out of place.

[Raydeus]

Square Enix is a rather large international corporation. Not some individual or fledgling startup. Kickstarter seems out of place.

Not really, Kickstarter and others like it may have been popularized by indies, but in the end it isn't that different from all the market studies companies make all the time. The only difference is that here all the cost will be passed onto the costumer, so there will be zero risk involved for SE. If the kickstarter failed they can just shelve the idea and move on, and if it does succeed they will just have to deliver the improvements we'll be paying for in advance.

Many companies are actually starting to seriously consider Kickstarters and the sort for this very reason, zero risk for you as a company and some good potential for an easy profit on a success.

All Square needs to do is set a minimum goal that would make it worth it for them, then set additional goals for any extra money they obtain to fulfill other player requests. No matter how you look at it this would be way safer than something like Adoulin was, and it could potentially be far more successful and profitable for them.

If they can adapt their ways to work with the idea that is.

[Belmonts]

Take my monay already ! (´・ω・)

http://www.matthewratzloff.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/take-my-money.jpg

[Emdief]

Not really, Kickstarter and others like it may have been popularized by indies, but in the end it isn't that different from all the market studies companies make all the time. The only difference is that here all the cost will be passed onto the costumer, so there will be zero risk involved for SE. If the kickstarter failed they can just shelve the idea and move on, and if it does succeed they will just have to deliver the improvements we'll be paying for in advance.

Many companies are actually starting to seriously consider Kickstarters and the sort for this very reason, zero risk for you as a company and some good potential for an easy profit on a success.

All Square needs to do is set a minimum goal that would make it worth it for them, then set additional goals for any extra money they obtain to fulfill other player requests. No matter how you look at it this would be way safer than something like Adoulin was, and it could potentially be far more successful and profitable for them.

If they can adapt their ways to work with the idea that is.

Agreed, basically it would be a way to see if people are actually interested in spending money for a graphic upgrade. That being said, FFXI has a lot of maps and areas, and obviously it would take some time and money. To be honest I wouldn't mind spending another 60 euro for the game, if it was to get an up to date product. They should just discuss about it within the staff, and decide how much money they'd need to make it profitable for them. Then it would be up to us entirely.

[Damane]

Not really, Kickstarter and others like it may have been popularized by indies, but in the end it isn't that different from all the market studies companies make all the time. The only difference is that here all the cost will be passed onto the costumer, so there will be zero risk involved for SE. If the kickstarter failed they can just shelve the idea and move on, and if it does succeed they will just have to deliver the improvements we'll be paying for in advance.

Many companies are actually starting to seriously consider Kickstarters and the sort for this very reason, zero risk for you as a company and some good potential for an easy profit on a success.

All Square needs to do is set a minimum goal that would make it worth it for them, then set additional goals for any extra money they obtain to fulfill other player requests. No matter how you look at it this would be way safer than something like Adoulin was, and it could potentially be far more successful and profitable for them.

If they can adapt their ways to work with the idea that is.

SE doesnt have any interest in revamping FFXI, FFXI made them a shitton of money, which went towards FFXIV instead of revamping FFXI to some degree mostly. I would like a revamp, but honestly, they have milked the FFXI base enough the last 4 years in order to make FFXIV a success.

[Castanica]

I'm sorry if this has already been asked, but as a returning player I was wondering if this was actually a possibility.
I'm an editor for the italian videogames' press, and I'm in touch with several journalists and editors who would help to spread the word across the web. Is there any chance the community could help SE to re-do FFXI graphics or at least release some serious texture pack?
Beside console users, I believe a graphic boost would help a lot in terms of visibility and it could be a way to get new players into the game. I understand the game doesn't have many players online anymore, but letting the game slowly die wouldn't make much sense, if the company can still get some money out of it.
Can you guys discuss about how much money you would need to make some kind of texture pack? Or maybe release some tools for the community to start working on it?
Epic Games is doing a wonderful job with the new Unreal Tournament by working together with the community, and I believe we could help as well if you would allow us to.
I'm sure many of the players would pay to get a graphic boost in FFXI, and Kickstarter is a beautiful way to get things done nowadays. Please consider this possibility SE, the community would most likely assist you guys.

They won't do this for many reasons.

A)It would steal the main pull factor of FFXIV (XIV doesn't have much else apart from graphics to set it aside from XI), keep in mind their diabolical plan was always to make both games casual enough so that people played both and paid 2 subs. Which amazingly is actually working for a lot of people.

B)What if they upgrade the graphics and players don't like the upgrade style?, they sure won't change them again. Look how much work Blizzard put into WoW redesign.

C)The main claim to fame FFXI still has is it runs on a potato, graphics upgrades will require a big boost to min specs and it will also leave out Xbox and PS2 players, is it worth alienating those players? you could say it would just be for those with better graphics, but how many XI players are left with good computers? Have you seen the server population numbers?

D)The amount of work involved is incredible. I don't think you realise how much work would be involved due to the HUGE amount of areas, monsters and characters this game has. This game has more graphics than FFXIV by far, especially since they skimped a lot on that game by making a lot of universal animations etc.

E)Will a graphics upgrade bring players back? No. The game has been decimated from what it was, a graphics upgrade would be nice but it wouldn't fix the main issues this game has and most players that went off to play a game like XIV for instance will still never be able to stick with XI long-term now, after all the easy stuff like dungeon finders etc.

F) A graphics upgrade would not only be some artists working, it would require a huge engine rewrite (any modder will tell you that when they try adding hi-res mods the game very often crashes). Not only is the cost of that immense but they don't have the staff to spare either (don't say hire more, do you really want random people making the graphics?), especially since...as I said the benefits of doing it would not bring back many players anyway.

I could go on but lets pick the easiest one, the amount of money it would cost to do a meaningful graphics upgrade is well above what they could raise given the low players numbers this game now has. All the deserters crushed what little hope the game had of a rebirth in any meaningful way.

Also from past experience with returnees like yourself, they won't be here past a month or two anyway.

[Raydeus]

SE doesnt have any interest in revamping FFXI, FFXI made them a shitton of money, which went towards FFXIV instead of revamping FFXI to some degree mostly. I would like a revamp, but honestly, they have milked the FFXI base enough the last 4 years in order to make FFXIV a success.

You are right XI was sacrificed in order to make XIV "succeed" (although that success still remains in question long term considering how disposable content is in that game), but SE isn't allergic to money either. So if XI could still make money for them and players were willing to pay for the upgrade they have no reason to say no to that extra profit.


Snip

Most of what you say is precisely why a Kickstarter would be the best option for something like this.

Although personally I wouldn't want a change in models at all, just hi-res textures and a client upgrade (like I said DX11/12 support, Open GL and maybe Mantle for a stretch goal) that was completely focused on optimizations for PC. The performance gains the game would get would far surpass the extra requirements better textures would need so it would actually allow weaker PCs to run it much better. But gameplaywise nothing would/should change.

[Emdief]

Even though I might agree with the whole thing being hard and unlikely to happen, I still believe that some kind of crowdfunding to check out the interest from the playerbase would be interesting, and could not do any harm. Hell even a survey would do, just to know how much players are willing to pay / if they are.

[Cabalabob]

I just want them to update the damn controller support so I can use my xbox 360 controllers triggers on PC :/ but to be honest this game could really could do with a makeover, they should just take a year off of releasing content updates to improve graphics, work on controller support and untangle the web of coding that's causing all these limitations lately. I think the game would benefit from it.

[Vasch]

I don't honestly care to have the graphics redone, but an HD texture pack would be sweet, even if it just affected characters.

[predatory]

I don't get the whole change the graphics engine thing, why should they do that, when you can do this? (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/wiki/ffxi_graphics) There's probably better write-ups out there on oversampling your graphics but it's something you can do at the local level.

People complain about the graphics, but my ffxi looks just as good as any game out there, without all the extra lag that comes with newer games

[Vold]

They won't do this for many reasons.

All of what you just took the time to say is a load of crap and excuses. If other MMORPGs that are equal to the support FFXI has with subscribers, namely EQ for example, can do a graphical upgrade, so can SE.

You and SE both can stop making excuses to yourselves why it's "not viable". You make the time and effort to facelift your aging MMOs to prolong their lifespan with the current population. Period. The age of adding new subs on a regular basis is gone. It's done been time for what I call "maintain the sub base" mode. If you skip out on that you're just milking the cow until it is dry, and frankly you deserve to have your MMO die off sooner than later if that's your take on it's existence, and ten years later you're answering interview questions about what you regret about letting FFXI die and not letting those mistakes happen again with 'FFwhatever Online' you start talking about "if only we cared more and did a graphical upgrade sooner than not at all..."

But as far as not doing it because of FFXIV, that's silly. A subscriber is a subscriber. They don't care what game you are paying for to play. And don't even get me started on the BS that is charging us the same price they did over a decade ago but with about 30 times less support for the game which is a load of crap. The least they can do is give us a graphical upgrade.

[Malithar]

And don't even get me started on the BS that is charging us the same price they did over a decade ago but with about 30 times less support for the game which is a load of crap. The least they can do is give us a graphical upgrade.

Was with ya 100% til that. idk about others, but I'm happier paying now than I was in the past. QoL improvements, content, missions, fixes, etc. We're getting a lot of it every month now, where as in the past, we got a decent amount of it....every three months. In Between those updates, even more so if an update didn't really add anything that you were interested in or any content, it was hell. If it wasn't for the long grind that exping/meriting made you go through, I'd imagine we all would of been bored and angry back then. Rose tinted glasses are cool if you find those to be the heydays, but compare it to today, and much less was being added on a much slower schedule.

Maybe not having Tanaka saying "we'll look into it" to..every..single..question/suggestion imaginable helps out too.

OT: I don't think the game is extremely dire need of a graphical update, but it really couldn't hurt, specially if it's just HDing the models and textures, rather than a full graphical update to models and such, like WoW is currently doing. I'm indifferent, but I'd be interested in seeing the results of such a Kickstarter, and seeing what bonus goals they'd add.

[Camiie]

I don't get the whole change the graphics engine thing, why should they do that, when you can do this? (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/wiki/ffxi_graphics) There's probably better write-ups out there on oversampling your graphics but it's something you can do at the local level.

And how do you know they aren't already doing that?


People complain about the graphics, but my ffxi looks just as good as any game out there, without all the extra lag that comes with newer games

With all the tweaks in place it looks good for what it is, but no it doesn't look just as good as any game out there. Older zones especially look extremely dated in many ways even by PS2 standards.

[Dulek]

I'm curious to see how the Japanese XI crowd would react to this, but I do not know any Japanese. Is there anyone that is able to post this on their forums to see how they react to this idea?

[Raydeus]

Looking at threads like this (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/42012-%E3%82%A2%E3%83%B3%E3%83%81%E3%82%A8%E3%82%A4%E3%83%AA%E3%82%A2%E3%82%B9%E3%82%92%E3%81%8B%E3%81%91%E3%81%9F%E3%81%84%E3%80%82%EF%BC%88%E7%94%BB%E9%9D%A2%E3%82%92%E6%BB%91%E3%82%89%E3%81%8B%E3%81%AB%E8%A1%A8%E7%A4%BA%E3%81%97%E3%81%9F%E3%81%84%EF%BC%89) it seems Japanese players would also like at the very least a client upgrade to DX9 or higher. Edit > Now, whether or not they would be willing to Kickstarter it is another issue altogether.

And to repeat myself yet again, for a starting point this is what I would personally like to see in the Kickstarter:

- Main goals :
1) DX11 client with proper PC optimization and features (AA, AF, V-sync, longer drawing distances, better performance on modern hardware, better audio processing, snappier UI, etc.)

2) HD textures for all items, characters, monsters and areas. There's no need for a model rework, it would take even longer and be more expensive for little gains. The HD textures alone would make all the difference.

And if you doubt that would be more than enough just look at all the models they pretty much lifted straight out of XI and put in XIV just with higher resolution textures.

- Additional goals :

1) OpenGL/Mantle support

2) HD Rework of environmental and gameplay FX (particle effects in abilities, spells, etc., water effects, weather effects, etc.)

---

And that's about it. In my opinion the game doesn't really need much else from a Kickstarter like this.

[Alhanelem]

Kickstarters should never be made by corporations. Ever. They have the money, you are giving them money every month, suggesting a kickstarter is just a ridiculous idea. Even worse than a big company like SE doing a kickstarter is doing a kickstarter for an already made and released and decade+ old game. I would never back any such kickstarter no matter how much I love the game. I would only back a kickstarter for a new product. If a company has a well made, successful product that is already out and making money, they should not ever need or consider a kickstarter.

[Demonjustin]

Well the advantage of a Kickstarter is they can see that people who play the game are willing to foot the bill for it even though it likely won't pull in any profits for them by doing it. If they didn't Kickstart it then it wouldn't be done for sure, they'd never make more money off it then they'd spend in the long run but if we foot the bill and show them we truly want it then they'd do it and lose nothing by doing it.

[Emdief]

Looking at threads like this (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/42012-%E3%82%A2%E3%83%B3%E3%83%81%E3%82%A8%E3%82%A4%E3%83%AA%E3%82%A2%E3%82%B9%E3%82%92%E3%81%8B%E3%81%91%E3%81%9F%E3%81%84%E3%80%82%EF%BC%88%E7%94%BB%E9%9D%A2%E3%82%92%E6%BB%91%E3%82%89%E3%81%8B%E3%81%AB%E8%A1%A8%E7%A4%BA%E3%81%97%E3%81%9F%E3%81%84%EF%BC%89) it seems Japanese players would also like at the very least a client upgrade to DX9 or higher. Edit > Now, whether or not they would be willing to Kickstarter it is another issue altogether.

And to repeat myself yet again, for a starting point this is what I would personally like to see in the Kickstarter:

- Main goals :
1) DX11 client with proper PC optimization and features (AA, AF, V-sync, longer drawing distances, better performance on modern hardware, better audio processing, snappier UI, etc.)

2) HD textures for all items, characters, monsters and areas. There's no need for a model rework, it would take even longer and be more expensive for little gains. The HD textures alone would make all the difference.

And if you doubt that would be more than enough just look at all the models they pretty much lifted straight out of XI and put in XIV just with higher resolution textures.

- Additional goals :

1) OpenGL/Mantle support

2) HD Rework of environmental and gameplay FX (particle effects in abilities, spells, etc., water effects, weather effects, etc.)

---

And that's about it. In my opinion the game doesn't really need much else from a Kickstarter like this.

Agreed, HD Textures would do, no need to touch the models. Also, modders would probably benefit from the directx 11 support, and that could open for more support from the playerbase.
I disagree with people saying that a big corporation should not use crowdfunding. The market is changing and has changed already. I see Double Fine looking for funds, Epic Games developing Unreal together with the players, someone like Chris Roberts rising more than 46 millions for Star Citizen, Capcom not caring about Mega Man and Inafune rising alone 12 millions or so from his fans, and so on.
The old economic system still exists, but things are changing, and most of the times those big corporations are the ones that don't want to risk. That's where we should come in, and that's where all the new technologies can come to help.

To be honest with you, before making this thread I didn't even know about the WoW remake of the visuals. I thought about this for two main reasons:
1. I knew it happened already in the past, with a very old game made by Funcom called Anarchy Online. Fans were amazed and the game had a lot of new players because of this.
2. I do love GTA 4. I play on a PC. That means mods, that means hq textures, that means community. Given the right support and care from the community, we can boost and change games as much as we want, that's why DX11 would help a lot.
I don't really understand why some of you are so pessimistic and negative, it's SE and it's us. We're discussing together, it might bring something good.

[Xantavia]

2. I do love GTA 4. I play on a PC. That means mods, that means hq textures, that means community. Given the right support and care from the community, we can boost and change games as much as we want, that's why DX11 would help a lot.
Don't know about GTA4, but remember, modding your game is against the official ToS. Officially, I don't think they would want to make it easier to happen.

[predatory]

But what if I don't want to foot the bill for SE to redo the graphics. I mean I've given them alot of money over the years, and shouldn't game improvements have been part of the money I spent? I mean this isn't a f2p, this is a p2p with a monthly service charge for ALL characters on an account, and the base game itself, and each expansion over the years has dipped into my wallet. A upgraded UI and graphics is a great idea, (hell I'll oversample the new graphics to make it look better if they do it), but how much more extra money should I invest in this game?

SE said last year that FFXI was the highest grossing game they've ever sold, some of that money could have been used to upgrade the graphics, UI etc, but instead of doing that SE decided to tear down and totally rebuild FFXIV. I just can't see rewarding that kind of behavior by throwing more money at them, especially in light of the fact that they want to keep the ps2 as a platform in Japan, which would make any graphics improvements barely minimal over what we have right now, because the ps2 can barely handle the graphics interface as it is. I started on ps2 and I can tell you that it gets laggy fast. I remember zoning into jeuno and getting lag and I was afraid the machine was going to melt everytime I went into dynamis.

I don't know, pay for an upgrade if you want, but I don't want to

[Auriga]

Just upgrade the game already SE, the serious players are tired of this procrastinational crap. You went an made a knock off of WoW on 14 thinking that'd be ok.. it wasn't.

11 will not be allowed to die, end of story, we pay you, now get the job done.
Wanna complain ya don't have enough to do the job? look at this thread, clearly people are willing to throw down for it.

I'll take up the cause, then the game would wipe out 14 an WoW altogether.

The game became a flagship along time ago, if ya let this die.. the fans can promise you to raise it from the dead one way or another.

[Damane]

Well the advantage of a Kickstarter is they can see that people who play the game are willing to foot the bill for it even though it likely won't pull in any profits for them by doing it. If they didn't Kickstart it then it wouldn't be done for sure, they'd never make more money off it then they'd spend in the long run but if we foot the bill and show them we truly want it then they'd do it and lose nothing by doing it.

i am sorry we did throw them allready alot of money at, FFXI was for SE one of the most profitable game and the cash of FFXI surely wasnt put all back into the game (naturally not), but the last years 1 year pre FFXIV release and the years following the FFXIV debakel and rebuild, ALOT of FFXI money was poored away and put into FFXIV, dont you think that the FFXI players deserve something for free, especially considering we are still paying and our sub-price is actually alot higher then FFXIV's sub. I think its time to poor some money away from FFXIV and reward FFXI (and its community) for what it has put out. i wouldnt mind paying again 30 bucks like it would be an expansion but definitly not more.

[Demonjustin]

i am sorry we did throw them allready alot of money at, FFXI was for SE one of the most profitable game and the cash of FFXI surely wasnt put all back into the game (naturally not), but the last years 1 year pre FFXIV release and the years following the FFXIV debakel and rebuild, ALOT of FFXI money was poored away and put into FFXIV, dont you think that the FFXI players deserve something for free, especially considering we are still paying and our sub-price is actually alot higher then FFXIV's sub. I think its time to poor some money away from FFXIV and reward FFXI (and its community) for what it has put out. i wouldnt mind paying again 30 bucks like it would be an expansion but definitly not more.While I agree there's a difference here that makes or breaks the idea of doing it at all. FFXIV was a new game, one which would pull in players and keep them there for years, hopefully lasting a long time like FFXI did and creating enough profit that the investment was not wasted. FFXI getting a graphical update isn't the same way, almost no one would join due to graphics being improved but the cost would likely be quite high due to the fact this game has (12?) years of content now that'd need to be gone through for it. If they threw money at it then it'd be a loss of money for sure, almost everyone on the game has come to terms with the graphics we have and while it'd be great for them to be improved I wonder who would be so willing to pay an expansions fee for those graphics.

In the end, the chances they'd make enough money off it to even out seems kinda unlikely for me, the chances they'd profit are even less, but a kickstarter really does eliminate all chances of losses on both sides so far as I know. I think you get the money back if the goals aren't hit and if they are then SE could then put the money into it as we want them to and use any additional money to put into the game and make it even better. Updates are getting faster and better than ever, but there are so many things this game could benefit from money wise, such as improved servers and the like, but none of it will likely ever happen if it's an extremely large undertaking because to them it just wouldn't be cost effective.

[Triannasky]

FFXI getting a graphical update would be nice, but as stated before it's a old game, graphics and content need to be overhauled to really bring players back. alot of the new content has been great, but older content is pointless at best. Changing the content of the game to reflect what the game now in 2014. great example is campaign, and SE taking the time and changing the content would be great for players. SE finds new ways to do stuff all the time. Graphics is a most, but so is evolving the content. Thanks to the poster of this thread, always nice to see someone with great ideas.

[Zarchery]

This is such a ridiculous idea on so many levels. SE doesn't even want to drop Playstation 2 support, you think they're gonna reprogram the entire game from the ground up to make it a little prettier? Not to mention that FFXI is something of a niche, less popular game among the MMO market, so you have a small percentage of people who would even be interested in playing. Add to that an even smaller number of people interested enough in a graphics update to pay for it. Now consider that this isn't funding some Joe Blow film maker's crappy independent art project but rather a major project by a major corporation, so it's not going to be cheap. I'd rather that this business use the funding it already has in place; profits from sales of its products and services.

[Demonjustin]

This is such a ridiculous idea on so many levels. SE doesn't even want to drop Playstation 2 support, you think they're gonna reprogram the entire game from the ground up to make it a little prettier? Not to mention that FFXI is something of a niche, less popular game among the MMO market, so you have a small percentage of people who would even be interested in playing. Add to that an even smaller number of people interested enough in a graphics update to pay for it. Now consider that this isn't funding some Joe Blow film maker's crappy independent art project but rather a major project by a major corporation, so it's not going to be cheap. I'd rather that this business use the funding it already has in place; profits from sales of its products and services.Say it however you'd like, it's not going to change the fact here that if players don't foot the bill or do it themselves then it will never be done. We have to either accept it'll never be done or we do something like kickstarter and hope we get enough money for them to do it. If you leave it to only be done by them then kiss your wish goodbye. There's no real downfall to doing it this way anyways, so I don't understand why the objections to it.

[Zarchery]

Say it however you'd like, it's not going to change the fact here that if players don't foot the bill or do it themselves then it will never be done. We have to either accept it'll never be done or we do something like kickstarter and hope we get enough money for them to do it. If you leave it to only be done by them then kiss your wish goodbye. There's no real downfall to doing it this way anyways, so I don't understand why the objections to it.

I'm saying that it's not going to happen under any conditions. Why do you confuse "this idea will not work" with "this idea should not be done"?

[Alhanelem]

Say it however you'd like, it's not going to change the fact here that if players don't foot the bill or do it themselves then it will never be done. We have to either accept it'll never be done or we do something like kickstarter and hope we get enough money for them to do it. If you leave it to only be done by them then kiss your wish goodbye. There's no real downfall to doing it this way anyways, so I don't understand why the objections to it.
Many of us have been footing the bill for over a decade. A kickstarter won't change that and as I said before, I will never back a kickstarter for an already released product, no matter how good it it is, on principle and the whole purpose of kickstarter, which is to kick-START something, not kick-SUSTAIN something.

[Demonjustin]

I'm saying that it's not going to happen under any conditions. Why do you confuse "this idea will not work" with "this idea should not be done"?Your closing line...
I'd rather that this business use the funding it already has in place; profits from sales of its products and services.That looks a lot more like "this should not be done" than "this won't work" to me.


Many of us have been footing the bill for over a decade. A kickstarter won't change that and as I said before, I will never back a kickstarter for an already released product, no matter how good it it is, on principle and the whole purpose of kickstarter, which is to kick-START something, not kick-SUSTAIN something.We've been paying yes but there's a large difference between something like an expansion and something like a graphical overhaul. Which would likely get more revenue for them in the end? A new expansion like SoA was can bring new players in, bring old players back, and extend the game quite a bit. A graphical overhaul makes the game look more modern but it's a nice coat of paint on a car that's more than a decade old, dress it up as you wish it won't change what's under the hood. The graphical overhaul would be nothing more than a whimsical desired fulfilled and as such it wouldn't really create any additional revenue, no one who quit would suddenly return and no one who's currently not interested in the game will all of a sudden buy the game and it's new super-duper-graphic pack to play it. It's for this reason that it makes no sense for SE to do this with their own money, it'd be stupid from a business position to do such a thing. I understand you wouldn't support it, I honestly wouldn't either though that's more a matter of a lack of funds on my part to do so, but the beauty of the idea is if enough people don't care to pitch in enough to get it done then nothing is lost in the venture. It fails, we move on, nothing happens.

To address something else though, you point out it's to kick-start rather than kick-sustain, this is rather misleading. If the idea were that the servers were shutting down and we wanted a kickstarter to keep them up, that would be sustaining. If it were the idea of starting one to continue the french and german support, that'd be sustaining. If it were a matter of already having better graphics but they need to tone it down a bit due to costs, that'd be sustaining. But right now we're basically asking for a kickstarter that would start a graphical overhaul, thus it's starting and not sustaining. I do understand the arguments about SE being a large company and having their own money as well as having their own profits from this game in which to do this with but that argument is really kinda pointless when it's be stupid to redo the game's graphic with no profit as a foreseeable result of it.

[Alhanelem]

We've been paying yes but there's a large difference between something like an expansion and something like a graphical overhaul. Which would likely get more revenue for them in the end?If their income is sufficient that they can produce and sell an expansion, then it should be sufficient to work on something like what people are asking for here. Square Enix doing a kickstarter just screams big issues:

Any one of the following could be indicated by a kickstarter
1) "We don't have enough money (our company is doing badly- something they wouldn't want to display or admit)
2) "We have plenty of money but we'll hold out on doing this til they beg us to make something and offer money for it"
3) "We're too lazy and we don't want to do this unless people band together and make us rich"

None of these exactly make SE look good.

A big corporation with millions and millions of dollars in capital has no business making a kickstarter for any product, much less one that's already released and sitll is making money.

I want them to do an update at least to use higher res textures (we know the current engine can handle it because many textures have already been upgraded)

That said, asking for extra money from us to do it is an insult and slap to the face. They should do it anyway. They are not starved for cash.

[Demonjustin]

If their income is sufficient that they can produce and sell an expansion, then it should be sufficient to work on something like what people are asking for here.This is where you're not understanding how this works. It's not a matter of not having the money to do it. It's a matter of it being a waste of money for them. Making an expansion can create profit due to more people playing and playing for a longer period, meaning more revenue. Updating the graphics won't have the same kind of effect, it will be a net loss rather than a net gain, as such it would be stupid for them to spend their own money on such a thing. If players funded it though they'd lose nothing, only gain.


2) "We have plenty of money but we'll hold out on doing this til they beg us to make something and offer money for it"This is simply the reality of the situation. There's no point in doing it if they only serve to lose money as a result.

[Alhanelem]

This is simply the reality of the situation. There's no point in doing it if they only serve to lose money as a result. The message of 2) was "we're greedy, therefore we will intentionally wait until they get so desprate they start throwing money at us". Which in reality is unlikely to really happen, more likely is more people will quit and they'll get less money, not more.


I stand by the last 2 statements I added in my edit. They shouldn't ever consider a kickstarter nor should we buy into one. This is something they should just <insert vague frustration word here> do. And if they're not going to do it, we should speak with our money by NOT giving it to them, because then they might realize they have more to lose by not doing it.

[Demonjustin]

This is something they should just <insert vague frustration word here> do. And if they're not going to do it, we should speak with our money by NOT giving it to them, because then they might realize they have more to lose by not doing it.But they've nothing to lose, no real reason to do it other than we asked. I keep saying that.

[predatory]

But they've nothing to lose, no real reason to do it other than we asked. I keep saying that.

But you missed the important part of what Alhanelem said so I'll quot it and bold it. By quote I mean put it in quotation marks.

Alhanelem: "I stand by the last 2 statements I added in my edit. They shouldn't ever consider a kickstarter nor should we buy into one. This is something they should just <insert vague frustration word here> do. And if they're not going to do it, we should speak with our money by NOT giving it to them, because then they might realize they have more to lose by not doing it."

If people actually speak with their wallets (IE not pay for a product they feel is inferior), companies lose money, so the statement: "But they've nothing to lose, no real reason to do it other than we asked. I keep saying that", is really wide of the mark, when they actually have everything to lose. Companies who do not please their customers go out of business

If everyone who plays told SE if you don't fix our graphics and our UI we will not pay next month, then actually carried through on the threat, SE would be back pedaling as fast as they could to give us batter graphics and a more modern UI, because believe it not, this game still brings in huge profits. There may only be 800-1k player on at any given time, but not everyone plays at the same time, and everyone has multiple mules, there may be as many as 4k paid accounts per server, we have no real way of knowing, but lets do a little guess work.

2500 active accounts per server, *that seems like a fair number) now lets guess each account has 3 mules, (Iknow people with more, and some with less) that's $15.99 per account, and 16 servers, so 2,500x$15.99x16= $639,600 SE would be hit for one month. I can't that of any company on the planet that would happily say "oh well it's just a little over a half mil we can deal with it." There would probably be an emergency meeting of the board of directors and heads would roll

[Malithar]

You're assuming that not doing a graphics update would lose them 2500 accounts per server, which is beyond crazy. Assuming people really did leave just because a lack of a graphics update, do you think they'd really put fourth the money to revitalize it in the hopes of getting people back? I'd put my money on them just letting it die off. I think they've found a happy medium where they can put fourth enough effort into updating the game to keep it interesting for those around, while still churning a steady profit. I highly doubt FFXI is nearly as lucrative as some seem to make it to be. Sure, $13 an account, $1 per mule, etc, now toss in the staff, development, networking, bandwidth, server up keep, customer service, etc.

Cost > profit wise, I'd imagine it's at a good spot that we'll continue to see development for the game that will retain players or entice others back. Typically, that's gameplay changes, new jobs, new content, etc. Graphics, as someone else put it, is just a fresh coat of paint on whatever turd it's hiding. They have no reason to do it, and speaking with our wallets by cancelling will only hasten the end of the game.

[Emdief]

I disagree with some of you guys. I understand new visuals would only be a new coat of paint, but I believe that it could help to push the marketing machine of the game again. I work for the press myself, and I know for sure that many players would go around looking for news, finding maybe some new screens with nice graphics, and start thinking something like "hey, this looks cool, might be worth a shot".
If you think about all the press coverage they can have (it is still a Final Fantasy, and it is still a very old and successful MMO), I think many players could develop some kind of interest in the game, those being former players or new ones.
Adoulin has changed the game deeply, the grinding has been severely reduced, and even if the inner structure of the game is still 12 years old, the new team of developers is managing to apply several changes that are making FFXI some kind of a modern game. Sure, it has its flaws, it has still PlayOnline which is a massive problem compared to modern clients, it has no in-hud maps etc. But they are addressing a lot of issues with constant updates, and they are doing a really good job, in my opinion.

I was talking with a former player yesteday, he told me he didn't want to come back because he doesn't want to exp again and level his jobs to 99. I explained him how reives and Adoulin work, and he showed interest in the fact that you get exp just by doing your daily stuff. That is gathering informations. A graphic update and news around the web would definitely push towards gathering informations from whoever likes what he sees in the new screenshots/videos. And if they like what they learn, they might give it a try.
SE still offers one free month, like most of the MMOs. Having to pay for the subscription only (instead of having to buy the game as well) would be better, of course, but still today some games adopt the monthly fee thingy with relative success.
I think a graphic update would be a great way for them to not have their amazing work go wasted.

[Demonjustin]

But you missed the important part of what Alhanelem said so I'll quot it and bold it. By quote I mean put it in quotation marks.

Alhanelem: "I stand by the last 2 statements I added in my edit. They shouldn't ever consider a kickstarter nor should we buy into one. This is something they should just <insert vague frustration word here> do. And if they're not going to do it, we should speak with our money by NOT giving it to them, because then they might realize they have more to lose by not doing it."

If people actually speak with their wallets (IE not pay for a product they feel is inferior), companies lose money, so the statement: "But they've nothing to lose, no real reason to do it other than we asked. I keep saying that", is really wide of the mark, when they actually have everything to lose. Companies who do not please their customers go out of businessThe question is how many people value a graphical update so much they'd rather quit the game than play it with it's current graphics? I'm betting it's not enough to make it worth the money, if it were then we'd see more threads popping up about how people are quitting because the graphic quality is so bad, thing is this just isn't happening and when quit threads do pop up the graphics are almost never mentioned. This is an aged/aging game, anyone who's been here more than a single month has come to terms with the fact that expecting this game's graphics to be overhauled is only expecting disappointment. All of that said I should address the first thing you really wanted to point out...
we should speak with our money by NOT giving it to them, because then they might realize they have more to lose by not doing itI did address this remark when I said that they have nothing to lose. What I meant by it is that if they do nothing they're not going to really lose enough people that doing it would actually make them more money. Saying something along the lines of they've more to lose by not doing it implies that enough people care enough about the graphics of the game to truly impact the game in such a way.


If everyone who plays told SE if you don't fix our graphics and our UI we will not pay next month, then actually carried through on the threat, SE would be back pedaling as fast as they could to give us batter graphics and a more modern UI, because believe it not, this game still brings in huge profits. There may only be 800-1k player on at any given time, but not everyone plays at the same time, and everyone has multiple mules, there may be as many as 4k paid accounts per server, we have no real way of knowing, but lets do a little guess work.

2500 active accounts per server, *that seems like a fair number) now lets guess each account has 3 mules, (Iknow people with more, and some with less) that's $15.99 per account, and 16 servers, so 2,500x$15.99x16= $639,600 SE would be hit for one month. I can't that of any company on the planet that would happily say "oh well it's just a little over a half mil we can deal with it." There would probably be an emergency meeting of the board of directors and heads would rollI don't like ignoring points, but this is a terrible one. You're basically saying that 2500 people on each and every server would quit based on nothing more than making the game look prettier? That's just... I've no words that truly convey my reply to such a thought. I mean if you said 500 people quitting on each and every server I'd have thought it an insane idea but 2500?

I don't mean to come off as an ass but really I don't think you could find 2500 people between all servers that'd be willing to quit over the graphics in hopes that SE would break down and throw money at the graphics for it. Please, just give that argument up.

[predatory]

i'm not assuming any such thing. I was making a point to highlight anhalems point, if enough people say give us our upgrade or no money for you, we will get the upgrade

[predatory]

you missed the point too, i was simply highlighting anahelms speak with your wallet point, like I said earlier in this thread, my graphics are just fine, I have them oversamply 2x and the game looks great to me, I've stated I would not pay extra for an upgrade so I really don't give a shit if they do it or not

[Dulek]

So much effort being put in by the counterargument crowd.

[Raydeus]

i'm not assuming any such thing. I was making a point to highlight anhalems point, if enough people say give us our upgrade or no money for you, we will get the upgrade

Sorry, but it's far more likely SE would just kill the game in that situation.

If your game already has low numbers and most people actually threaten you with quitting over something you already have no interest in doing, then there is zero incentive for them to budge to what the angry mob with pitchforks demands. From their perspective getting rid of the problem altogether would be far more convenient, simply because they will, from that moment on, have to worry about what new demand will come next.

That is why a Kickstarter is a better idea by far.

We (the people in favor of Kickstarter) want something from SE, and to obtain it we want to make it attractive for SE to spend the resources and time to do it.

How do we do that?

By making a compromise where we pay for cost of the upgrades we want made, and SE compromises to deliver them. With the added benefit for them that the improvements may bring back more old players and maybe bring some new into the game.

And the result would depend on whether or not enough players are willing to pay. If the kickstarter fails then nothing is lost except for some time, and if it succeeds players will gain a nice client upgrade without threatening the survival of XI in the process.

If you don't want to give money for it just ignore it. Unless you are somehow against other people spending their money to make the game better for everyone and benefit SE at the same time.

[predatory]

Sorry, but it's far more likely SE would just kill the game in that situation.

If your game already has low numbers and most people actually threaten you with quitting over something you already have no interest in doing, then there is zero incentive for them to budge to what the angry mob with pitchforks demands. From their perspective getting rid of the problem altogether would be far more convenient, simply because they will, from that moment on, have to worry about what new demand will come next.

That is why a Kickstarter is a better idea by far.

We (the people in favor of Kickstarter) want something from SE, and to obtain it we want to make it attractive for SE to spend the resources and time to do it.

How do we do that?

By making a compromise where we pay for cost of the upgrades we want made, and SE compromises to deliver them. With the added benefit for them that the improvements may bring back more old players and maybe bring some new into the game.

And the result would depend on whether or not enough players are willing to pay. If the kickstarter fails then nothing is lost except for some time, and if it succeeds players will gain a nice client upgrade without threatening the survival of XI in the process.

If you don't want to give money for it just ignore it. Unless you are somehow against other people spending their money to make the game better for everyone and benefit SE at the same time.

But me and a lot of people like me are simply not willing to shell out extra money for this game, if you feel the urge to do so, well it's your money spend it how you wish, I would not dream of telling you what to spend your hard earned money on, I'm simply saying I am totally unwilling to spend any extra money than I do now, for what in my mind has become an inferior game compared to what it has been in the past, and like I have stated a couple of times already, my graphics are fine. Also I probably would have ignored this thread by now, except people keep quoting me

[Emdief]

So hmm, we need to hear from you SE =/

[Alhanelem]

A kickstarter is the worst idea imaginable. I don't know how anyone here could even consider supporting it. They make tons of money off this game. SE is in far better shape than it was a few years ago. To have a company with millions of dollars in free capital do a kickstarter to raise money they don't need to make what we're asking for happen is beyond redonkulous and actually a little insulting. The whole point of kickstarter is to kick START a fledgling group or an small or unknown company from obscurity to popularity and fund projects which otherwise would not be able to happen due to lack of capital. An indie group making a new video game wants to hire hands to help make their first game, they need money to pay people and so a kickstarter makes sense. A multimillion dollar corporation like SE fits into none of those categories. They dont need to nor should they be using kickstarter for an update to an already released game that SHOULD happen anyway.

It just bugs me, as if people think SE needs the money in order to be able to do what's being asked of them. They don't. Many of you may know me as or call me a white knight. But this is one case where I can't stand by them. The money we pay them already is supposed to go (at least partially) towards updating the game.

[Raydeus]

The money we pay them already is supposed to go (at least partially) towards updating the game.

You mean like the monthly updates we've been getting for quite some time now? Because that, wages and server costs, plus their profit is already being covered for with our subs.

The client and texture upgrades we would like to Kickstart on the other hand are something additional they have no reason to invest on without a good incentive for doing so. The client already runs on supported platforms without much of an issue, and they are adding quality of life, content and gameplay updates on a regular basis now. If anything this is a time when we are getting more for our sub money compared to how things worked in the past. So they have no incentive to just go and do the upgrade considering the current sub numbers and the slim chance of an investment return from something like it.

Which is why we want to give them that incentive. As simple as that.

Now, I do understand why you may take offense to the concept of giving a company even more money to do something they should've done a long time ago, but that is not how things work when trying to make a deal with a business.

So, our solution to obtain something very specific that we want is to offer to pay for it if enough people are willing to contribute, which is what Kickstarters are for. Except maybe that if SE actually agreed to it we'd have a much better chance of actually getting what we are paying for.

That being said, Kickstarting it is obviously not the only solution to this. And if you don't feel like a Kickstarter is the best idea then how about you try something else.

I think a good way of doing it could be getting enough ex-players to sign some sort of pledge to return to the game should SE made the client and textures improvements. Another could be to try to contact a higher up and bring your request to them, if someone high enough supports the idea it can happen. Either way, whatever you do it has to show SE they will benefit from making those upgrades to the game in a tangible way.

Personally I like the Kickstarter idea better because it's the most direct since it would show SE that people are actually willing to put their money where their mouths are. And if enough interest was generated, even if we didn't get enough money, it could still bring some attention to our request.

But like I said, it isn't the only way of doing things. And as long as the end result translates into a client and texture upgrade rather than just empty words on a thread I'm ok with it regardless of how it happens.

[Zarchery]

i'm not assuming any such thing. I was making a point to highlight anhalems point, if enough people say give us our upgrade or no money for you, we will get the upgrade

And if a frog had wings it wouldn't bump it's butt when it hopped. You're doing that weird thing where a player has a thing he feels strongly about and assumes everyone else feels just as strongly about. I seriously doubt you'd find even 1000 players total who give a crap enough about the graphics to pay 1 penny to upgrade them or quit.

[Hercule]

Found this screens long time ago on FFXIAH

http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/680931Sansui2kP8ola1CrP5.png

http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/690264SansuiKLv2PF115F8i.png

http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/683345Sansuin3X099Xibs8u.png

http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/191131SansuiOWTslqI6vlg8.png

[Emdief]

http://i.imgur.com/TxB5zEw.jpg

[Alhanelem]

So, our solution to obtain something very specific that we want is to offer to pay for it if enough people are willing to contribute, which is what Kickstarters are for. Except maybe that if SE actually agreed to it we'd have a much better chance of actually getting what we are paying for.Kickstarters are to fund new and unreleased projects and events that are yet to happen. Not to fund an already funded project that does not and should not need additional money.

You can be nearly 100% sure that they already have highres master versions of all the textures in the game. E.g. do you really think their original art for the mog house rugs is that pixelated? No, it's not. Artists do everything in the highest quality possible and then it's reduced to the resolution needed for the game (based on what the platform they originally released on is capable of and how well it would look- placing high resolution textures on the ps2 with its giant pixels for the 3D environement would not improve the appearance). The only work involved here is swapping texture versions. Tedious work because of just how many there are, but they've proven they don't need our help to do this on multiple occasions by upgrading various textures in the past including those used for fonts, icons and the title screen.

Kickstarter is a terrible idea. It's not appropriate for this type of project and IT'S SOMETHING THEY SHOULD BE DOING ANYWAY. It is beyond me why anyone would support such an idea. Neither I nor anyone else should have to throw extra money at SE for them to do this.

This would be like Blizzard not releasing its latest game or withholding a new WoW expansion unless they did a kickstarter and it was successfully funded. it would be a giant PR stunt and nothing more. They don't need the money, nor do they need incentive. They will make plenty of money by just doing it, and they have plenty of capital to do just that. SE has plenty of capital. If we can't encourage them to just do it, we're not even going to get them to do a kickstarter or any other kind of silly stunt for it.

I totally understand that some of you have a strong enough desire for this to want to do "whatever it takes" to make this idea happen. But, it's not going to happen until and unless SE just decides to do it. If this thread and all the "shut up and take my money" pics won't do it, nothing will. Believe me, I want it too. I just know they have the means to do it without extra help from us, and nothing outside of this forum is likely to have a greater effect. petitions, kickstarters, etc. SE is just going to do whatever they're going to do.

Personally I would just hope for an official comment on this. If they can consider it at all, even if it takes years, I'd be happy. I only wouldn't be happy to hear something like "oh, we'll do it, but you have to pay extra!" I've paid at least $1500 in subscription fees for this game over the years, as have many other people here who have been playing since the beginning or close to it. Is that not enough to get some updated textures?

[Zarchery]

Admit it Alhalenem... you secretly want this Kickstarter to exist so you can fund it, but you already spent all your spare money on Microsoft's Kickstarter for Windows 9.

[Alhanelem]

Admit it Alhalenem... you secretly want this Kickstarter to exist so you can fund it, but you already spent all your spare money on Microsoft's Kickstarter for Windows 9.
I'd sooner fund a kickstarter for paying down the national debt.

[Hercule]

I've paid at least $1500 in subscription fees for this game over the years, as have many other people here who have been playing since the beginning or close to it. Is that not enough to get some updated textures?

I agreee with this

[Emdief]

Nobody is forcing anyone to pay anything, but if they didn't update the graphics until now I don't see them doing it for free, as it would require a lot of work. The team currently working on FFXI is pretty small right now, and they would need to get more designers and programmers from SE for sure, which has a cost.
We have payed a lot of money and invested a lot of time in this game, I've been playing for 11 years now, almost non stop. Our money went on updates, expansions, servers and what else, so we basically got what we payed for. The point now is asking for something that they didn't plan, as they would most likely continue with the regular updates till the game dies.
That's why I believe we could really help them out funding the project. I just hope they are discussing about this within the team right now, they should respond to let us know what they think.

[Alhanelem]

Nobody is forcing anyone to pay anything, but if they didn't update the graphics until now I don't see them doing it for free,They won't be doing it for free. They'll be doing it for the $12.95 (or more) everyone here pays them every month.

If I paid them extra money, it would be for an expansion or other large swath of new content. I'm not about to pay for something I feel they should be doing as a patch or update for the money we're already paying them.

Other games have modernized to support new graphics tech or other audiovisual improvements. Why should we have to pay for what's included in the cost of paying for almost any other MMO?

Did the players of WoW have to pay for the graphic refresh of the entire original continents of the game? No. (It happened with the release of Cataclysm, but you saw the improved/changed graphics whether you bought the expansion or not, unless I've gone crazy)

[Raydeus]

They won't be doing it for free. They'll be doing it for the $12.95 (or more) everyone here pays them every month.

If I paid them extra money, it would be for an expansion or other large swath of new content. I'm not about to pay for something I feel they should be doing as a patch or update for the money we're already paying them.

Other games have modernized to support new graphics tech or other audiovisual improvements. Why should we have to pay for what's included in the cost of paying for almost any other MMO?

Did the players of WoW have to pay for the graphic refresh of the entire original continents of the game? No. (It happened with the release of Cataclysm, but you saw the improved/changed graphics whether you bought the expansion or not, unless I've gone crazy)

Are you really comparing WoW's situation with XI's? At this point you are just throwing tantrums and offering zero solutions other that more tantrums.

But hey it's a free forum, keep doing that if it makes you feel better. I would just recommend people to stop replying to your posts because I don't want this thread to be locked before we get at least some response to the proposal.

[Ritsuka]

You are right XI was sacrificed in order to make XIV "succeed" (although that success still remains in question long term considering how disposable content is in that game), but SE isn't allergic to money either. So if XI could still make money for them and players were willing to pay for the upgrade they have no reason to say no to that extra profit.





Most of what you say is precisely why a Kickstarter would be the best option for something like this.

Although personally I wouldn't want a change in models at all, just hi-res textures and a client upgrade (like I said DX11/12 support, Open GL and maybe Mantle for a stretch goal) that was completely focused on optimizations for PC. The performance gains the game would get would far surpass the extra requirements better textures would need so it would actually allow weaker PCs to run it much better. But gameplaywise nothing would/should change.

They wont do it cuz they don't wanna block out there Japanese player base most still play on ps2. This game was made for ps2 no PC everything forgets that.

[Alhanelem]

Are you really comparing WoW's situation with XI's? At this point you are just throwing tantrums and offering zero solutions other that more tantrums.

But hey it's a free forum, keep doing that if it makes you feel better. I would just recommend people to stop replying to your posts because I don't want this thread to be locked before we get at least some response to the proposal.
I'm not throwing tantrums, I don't know why you made such an immature reply.

I've made a valid comparison. WoW's subs have been declining for a while now. If WoW can get a visual upgrade, so can FFXI. You can't just go "oh, WoW. Arugment invalid." If you say this because Blizzard has more money, that's an irrelevant point, because SE is more than profitable enough to be able to reassign the high res master art over the reduced textures made for the game. It's a tedious, not a difficult, process.

I am being completely civil here, there is no reason for the thread to be locked, not that you're ever going to get a response. You're attacking someone for their opinion and the overall tone of your post is extremely rude. You are "reccomending other people not to reply to me." Also extremely rude. If you don't have anything civil to say, perhaps you should try using the block list and following your own advice- not naming and shaming others.

[Alhanelem]

They wont do it cuz they don't wanna block out there Japanese player base most still play on ps2. This game was made for ps2 no PC everything forgets that.
Actually, that doesn't really have anything to do with it. The title screen, icon, and font texture resolution improvements were made on PC (and maybe xbox? I'm not sure) only. They can make non-mechanical changes like this to the game on individual platforms.

The game engine can handle it, they have already updated a handful of textures and art in the game to be higher res. It is well within their means.

[Zarchery]

Are you really comparing WoW's situation with XI's? At this point you are just throwing tantrums and offering zero solutions other that more tantrums.

A solution to what? The problem of you not having exactly the graphics you want? The look of the game is irrelevant to gameplay. The point he keeps making that you guys are all too dense to realize is that SquareEnix is a BUSINESS. This stuff comes out of their research and development costs. The guy's point with World of Warcraft was so obvious but you're just like "Nuh uh. Doesn't count."

See, Blizzard, being a business, used their research and development budget, which came from selling their products and services, to do what businesses do, and improve their product. They didn't act like a charity and ask people to donate money.

People use Kickstarter to fund their independent movies. Imagine Entertainment doesn't. They use profits from their movies to fund movies.

Not to mention that the development costs for this would be so high, the number of people who would be able to contribute would be so low, that the idea itself is idiotic on a practical level too.

To say nothing of the fact that they won't even drop Playstation 2 support, much less revamp the entire game.

[Alhanelem]

Not to mention that the development costs for this would be so high, the number of people who would be able to contribute would be so low, that the idea itself is idiotic on a practical level too.The costs associated with this would mostly just be paying a handful of people to spend man hours reassigning textures. See, they already have high resolution art (If they don't, then that means they threw the original masters away which would be the stupidest thing any company could possibly do). So its not like they need to have an art team make new art. They already have the textures- They are reduced in quality to fit the requirements of the game. You always make something in the highest possible resolution and then you lower it down.


See, Blizzard, being a business, used their research and development budget, which came from selling their products and services, to do what businesses do, and improve their product. They didn't act like a charity and ask people to donate money.That's basically what I'm getting at. I'd liken SE doing a kickstarter for a graphic upgrade to Bank of America doing a kickstarter to launch a new no-fee checking account or Ford doing a kickstarter to introduce some new cosmetic improvement to their cars. Compared to the money you and me make, these corporations print money. They don't need more from us than what they're already taking. If they care about their product, they will do something to improve it on their own using the money we already pay them.

[Demonjustin]

The thing about being a business is that you're trying to make money. If you're going to spend, say, $100,000 on a graphical update your goal is to make that much or more as a result of doing so. Upgrading the graphics of this game will not retain many additional players and will not draw in many long term players either. As it's been said before the game's graphics and gameplay are unrelated, this means graphics in the end won't be enough to retain or pull in players. As a result of this the cost of upgrading graphics won't be covered by the additional money made and it's a bad business choice.

People can run around this subject a hundred times it's not going to change the fact that a graphical update simply won't be done without something like kickstarter being the cause. SE has no financial reason to do this kind of update to the game and if the best argument for why they should do it outside of something like kickstarter is because they're a business or because we've paid for the last 12 years to play this game then you're only going to end up without getting it. Pointing out they're a business is only pointing out exactly why they'll never do it and to some extent never should. Pointing out we've played so long makes it sound like that means they owe us something, guess what though, those dues have been paid over the last few years of continued updates to the game and additional content spread all throughout it. Graphics are not part of the deal, they've never been and will never be. That's just how things are.

The point of this idea is for people who want to fund it to have the ability and power to do so rather than sitting around with their thumbs up their asses hoping one day SE will grace them with that which they so desire. If you want to keep your money then fine, do it, but stop acting as though SE will just do it themselves and that we're wasting our time and money when they will never do it themselves because there's 0 profit and only loss to be had as a result of it on their part.

[Demonjustin]

They wont do it cuz they don't wanna block out there Japanese player base most still play on ps2. This game was made for ps2 no PC everything forgets that.A game's graphics have nothing at all to do with the game's ability to be multi-platform. The graphics for this game are all saved to the harddrive of the users console or PC. This fact is the exact reason why .dat mods for the PC version of the game have existed since as far back as I can remember, people modify the files on their PC that are used to display the models or icons, by doing so the game uses the file it was replaced by and thus as a result show something different. This is why SE can do something similar by adding their own new HD files for people to download for PC and the PC version of the game will load those files, showing a HD version of the character model and resulting in a better looking PC version than the PC version. The only thing it'd do for the PS2 players is make them feel left out, something I couldn't care less about since they're playing on a console from more than a decade ago and have nothing besides that fact to blame. It wouldn't prevent them from playing the game any different than they are today however.

[Alhanelem]

As I mentioned before, they've already established they can change individual textures on one platform and not another (See: title screen, ability/nameplate icons and 3D font enhancements)

[Arbalest]

This kickstarter would never happen.

[Raydeus]

This kickstarter would never happen.

If you told me that 5 years ago I would've agreed completely.

But nowadays there is a good chance they might actually consider it because not only have Kickstarters proven their viability both with indies and with established companies, but also because it would be something of very low risk and investment for them. Right now it's just a matter of seeing what they have to say about it.

Either way, nothing at all is lost with trying.

[Sixtythree]

You guys should consider performance as well. It'd be great for new models / textures etc... but at the minimum the game really should be more efficient and friendly with new hardware. Who here has decent specs and experiences random slowdowns for no apparent reason?

[Raydeus]

You guys should consider performance as well. It'd be great for new models / textures etc... but at the minimum the game really should be more efficient and friendly with new hardware. Who here has decent specs and experiences random slowdowns for no apparent reason?

Yep, we've mentioned that in the thread before, that something like this would be good :


- Main goals :
1) DX11 client with proper PC optimization and features (AA, AF, V-sync, longer drawing distances, better performance on modern hardware, better audio processing, snappier UI, etc.)
2) HD textures for all items, characters, monsters and areas.

- Additional goals :
1) OpenGL/Mantle support
2) HD Rework of environmental and gameplay FX (particle effects in abilities, spells, etc., water effects, weather effects, etc.)

Models themselves don't really need any sort of rework, just the textures.

[Raydeus]

Speaking of crowd funding, SE already has the Collective (http://collective.square-enix.com/).

Maybe something could be done so a DX11 client + HD textures project for XI could be posted there. :D

[Emdief]

That is actually very interesting, it should serve the purpose!

[Emdief]

Come on SE, talk to us!

[Raydeus]

They've already seen the thread, so they aren't answering either because they don't want to say a flat no OR they don't have an answer to give just yet.

Either way I don't think bumping the thread will do much, if they have a reply Camate or someone else will post it here eventually, like they have done in other threads.

[Castanica]

Come on SE, talk to us!

They already did, ignoring the thread is an answer in itself.

[Raydeus]

They already did, ignoring the thread is an answer in itself.

Not at all.

There are many threads they come back later to and resurrect to give an answer or an update about the topic at hand.

[Angrykitty]

Not at all.

There are many threads they come back later to and resurrect to give an answer or an update about the topic at hand.

"Square Enix shutting down 'Final Fantasy XI' for PS2 and Xbox 360 in 2016. Square Enix will shut down the console versions of its MMORPG, Final Fantasy XI. According to Polygon, the Xbox 360 and PS2 versions of the game will be discontinued in March of 2016. The PC version will continue to operate.Mar 20, 2015"

Could this be the kickstarter everyone was asking for a year and a half ago?

[Teraniku]

I'd be interested in backing this for either a true DX 11 client, or updating the Wrapper the game runs on to DX11 (Would still solve a lot of issues if they just update the wrapper) and Hi-Res textures. one of the stretch goals could be adding shiny water effects etc.

[peculiar]

If you just want hq textures for models why not just pay modders to do it?

Square don't want to spend money on this game above and beyond what they have to, they have stated this a few times.

[Catmato]

If you just want hq textures for models why not just pay modders to do it?

Does the game engine accept higher-resolution textures?

[Alhanelem]

Does the game engine accept higher-resolution textures?
Higher resolution than those used throughout most of the game, yes. I don' know what the game engine's hard limit is, but it's well above what a lot of the textures in the game are saved at. Different texture resolutions are used for different things, although sometimes it doesn't make any sense (e.g. the horrendously low resolution carpet texture in the mog houses).

In some specific cases, the resolution of certain (All UI-related) textures in the game has been upgraded. For instance, the title screen logo was upgraded (at some point after I asked for it although it was probably already planned), and the resolution of the 3D fonts and icons was increased, and later the buttons on the title screen. That said, these changes only applied to the PC version.

[Caliburn]

I'd still like some comment, from the FFXI powers that be, on when ps2 support ends if they at least are going to alleviate some of the pain with modern hardware.
FFXI runs like poo on my machine. Another poster asked if anyone else experiences random slowdowns for no reason, well I do also.

Plus with MS pushing us to Win10, there has to be some give from FFXI.
Numerous people have issues trying to get FFXI to run on Win10, which again, MS is shoving down the entire world's population.
So FFXI at least needs to be able to officially be supported on win10.

FFXI's platform page has not been updated in ages.

Resistance is futile.

[Alhanelem]

Numerous people have issues trying to get FFXI to run on Win10,FFXI has no issues with win10 that I can tell. Some people don't have legacy components installed and that will prevent the game from running, but it's as simple as turning legacy components on. I havent seen evidence of "numerous" people not being able to run the game on win10.

[Zeargi]

I'm have a crap ton of issues with FFXI on Win10. I re-installed it twice, and this morning I tried to play it, but it terminated because of something called 'Direct 3D'...

[Vinedrai]

I'm have a crap ton of issues with FFXI on Win10. I re-installed it twice, and this morning I tried to play it, but it terminated because of something called 'Direct 3D'...

If you made sure your gpu driver isn't broken, try installing Directx (version 8.1 iirc) from the menu that opens up when you run the client setup, and yes, even if you normally use a higher version of Directx. I get bashed by more "techsavvy" people whenever I mention this to help others with this issue, but believe it or not, I had the same issue a few times in the past and installing that directx 8.1 package fixed it for me every single time.

[Alhanelem]

I'm have a crap ton of issues with FFXI on Win10. I re-installed it twice, and this morning I tried to play it, but it terminated because of something called 'Direct 3D'...
Probably legacy components not installed. Or drivers not up to date. If you have an AMD card, if you have drivers from before last Novermber, they were very unstable on win10 and caused a lot of crashes in many games.

Other than that, there really isn't much of anything about win10 that would cause the game not to work if it worked on win 7 and 8.

Also @ previous post. Any person who tells you you don't need to install the directx that comes with every game is giving terrible advice. While people have only heard of things like DirectX 8, 9.0c, 10, 11 and 12, there are literally hundreds of builds of each version floating around, because every game was built on a different one and may only work correctly with that specific one. Thus you should ALWAYS proceed with directX installations included with every game. (And, as mentioned before, you need to have Legacy Components installed under Control Panel > Programs and Features > Turn Windows Features On or Off)

Steam Support created an excellent explanation of the above on their site, which you can find here:
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=9974-PAXN-6252&l=English
(The TL;DR explanation is developers aren't allowed to simply include the individual binaries they used in their install process. Microsoft REQUIRES that they run the DirectX installer instead).

[Zeargi]

If you made sure your gpu driver isn't broken, try installing Directx (version 8.1 iirc) from the menu that opens up when you run the client setup, and yes, even if you normally use a higher version of Directx. I get bashed by more "techsavvy" people whenever I mention this to help others with this issue, but believe it or not, I had the same issue a few times in the past and installing that directx 8.1 package fixed it for me every single time.

I went back through and opened the FFXI Setup, and only clicked the DirectX 8.1 Stopped 1/2 way and said that it was successfully installed. Also I hope nothing on this thing is broken. I just got this thing...


Probably legacy components not installed. Or drivers not up to date. If you have an AMD card, if you have drivers from before last Novermber, they were very unstable on win10 and caused a lot of crashes in many games.

Other than that, there really isn't much of anything about win10 that would cause the game not to work if it worked on win 7 and 8.

Also @ previous post. Any person who tells you you don't need to install the directx that comes with every game is giving terrible advice. While people have only heard of things like DirectX 8, 9.0c, 10, 11 and 12, there are literally hundreds of builds of each version floating around, because every game was built on a different one and may only work correctly with that specific one. Thus you should ALWAYS proceed with directX installations included with every game. (And, as mentioned before, you need to have Legacy Components installed under Control Panel > Programs and Features > Turn Windows Features On or Off)

Steam Support created an excellent explanation of the above on their site, which you can find here:
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=9974-PAXN-6252&l=English
(The TL;DR explanation is developers aren't allowed to simply include the individual binaries they used in their install process. Microsoft REQUIRES that they run the DirectX installer instead).

I went in and turned on the Legacy option last night, and I have a NVIDIA GeForce GT730 with the drivers dated to 7/22/2015. And that's about it for info I really know. I'm Downloading the 12/21/2015 currently.

[Elexia]

Numerous people have issues trying to get FFXI to run on Win10, which again, MS is shoving down the entire world's population.
So FFXI at least needs to be able to officially be supported on win10.

FFXI's platform page has not been updated in ages.

Resistance is futile.

Hm, I have no issues with XI on Windows 10 - The people with Windows 10 issues likely had issues running games in the first place no matter what Windows platform they were on and upgrading largely only affected people who stayed way ahead of the curve (which even on Windows 7 people have issues with games because some games still need to be upgraded to support newer GPU/Driver combinations.)

XI does need a core overhaul, but like any game, it can produce higher resolution textures but is scaled down to fit properly on the PS2 - Heck even in current generation graphics are actually designed higher than they are rendered.

[Zeargi]

Hm, I have no issues with XI on Windows 10 - The people with Windows 10 issues likely had issues running games in the first place no matter what Windows platform they were on and upgrading largely only affected people who stayed way ahead of the curve (which even on Windows 7 people have issues with games because some games still need to be upgraded to support newer GPU/Driver combinations.)

My older PC ran FFXI perfectly fine. It wasn't until I go this new computer that I had an issue. The old PC Win 7, New PC Win 10. This new one should be leagues ahead of my old one, but can't run a 13yr old game :/

[Shirai]

What are the issues you're experiencing?
And besides W10, what hardware are you running it on?

[Zeargi]

What are the issues you're experiencing?
And besides W10, what hardware are you running it on?


I was finally able to figure out what the problem was after combing through pages and pages of internet forums. The Resolution for the game wasn't the same as the monitor and that was stopping the Direct3D thing from starting.

[Dekusuta]

Just speculating, can they just keep all the assets and upgrade it to be at least DX11 compatible? I think the game's mostly missing the nicer shaders. The geometry is largely still OK.

[Alhanelem]

Just speculating, can they just keep all the assets and upgrade it to be at least DX11 compatible? I think the game's mostly missing the nicer shaders. The geometry is largely still OK.
I don't think the game would gain anything from any directx 11 functions. It would result in increased rendering performance, but that's not the reason the game runs slow on modern PCs.

In short, it would take a lot more than simply "supporting" directx 11 to gain any benefit from it, they'd have to do the work to implement new graphical features. Which they should do but probably won't. =\

[Catmato]

Just speculating, can they just keep all the assets and upgrade it to be at least DX11 compatible? I think the game's mostly missing the nicer shaders. The geometry is largely still OK.

I'm no programmer, but wouldn't this require rewriting large parts of the game engine?

[Alhanelem]

I'm no programmer, but wouldn't this require rewriting large parts of the game engine?well the rendering engine specifically but yes, there would be a pretty large amount of work involved- particularly to actually gain anything from having it.

[Catmato]

I'd say getting the game to run properly at 60 fps without slowdown on a modern system would be a huge benefit, but that's just my opinion.

[Cesil]

Wow, two years and no reply o.O

Anyway I know a lot of work would be involved to update the game...

I guess it comes down to SE thinking it's worth it ^^ Although I've a feeling they are hoping on that cell phone game to work (ick...) personally I'd prefer a PC update, especially since they're dropping the consoles. Iirc they said they update the game with some old ps2 kit or something? Ugh

[Raydeus]

Wow, two years and no reply o.O

Anyway I know a lot of work would be involved to update the game...

I guess it comes down to SE thinking it's worth it ^^ Although I've a feeling they are hoping on that cell phone game to work (ick...) personally I'd prefer a PC update, especially since they're dropping the consoles. Iirc they said they update the game with some old ps2 kit or something? Ugh

They can't really invest on anything until they see what happens to sub numbers after they drop console support. If the subs remain stable or even increase with the small PC changes we can expect all sorts of quality of life and system improvements to happen. But if subs drop we'll probably only get small updates until the game dies. Either way whatever happens next for XI is completely in the hands of the players.

[Ramur]

They should add the full vanadil area with new graphics the content+storys to FFXIV as addon, create own servers for PLAYING STYLE round trip based like FFXI this is the important thing.
they should be preserved, the battle system this is important and unique.
^°°^

[Firesped]

in order to do this, they have to rewrite the client. the game data would still be used and could slowly be upgraded. but rewriting the client may chase away the players playing now as certain functionality would be come obsolete. with PS2 and XBOX 360 gone, I'm sure they will work towards optimizing the game for PC, dual process inventory loading is a big start. FFXI has great potential to grow now and is free to go in directions not bound by the story it started with.

[Moppet]

Rather then a full graphics update, I think XI would benefit greatly from:

- A PS4 Port
- Reinstatement of the XI/XIV combo subscription
- Streamlining of the registration process
- Collaboration between XI and XIV (Complimentary events, event/update times that don't conflict, etc)

I've played XIV from launch and many players end up unsubbing between major content patches. XI offers a longer term experience to enjoy that doesn't fully rely on quickly consumable content patches. This could help retain some of those players that are feeling the burnout of XIV and draw in more players who would never had tried XI. It would also give those who prefer XI on a console a reason to buy a PS4. Really that has the potential to enrich both games.

Yes, I know it's all very unlikely at this stage. :P

[Castanica]

Rather then a full graphics update, I think XI would benefit greatly from:

- A PS4 Port
- Reinstatement of the XI/XIV combo subscription
- Streamlining of the registration process
- Collaboration between XI and XIV (Complimentary events, event/update times that don't conflict, etc)

I've played XIV from launch and many players end up unsubbing between major content patches. XI offers a longer term experience to enjoy that doesn't fully rely on quickly consumable content patches. This could help retain some of those players that are feeling the burnout of XIV and draw in more players who would never had tried XI. It would also give those who prefer XI on a console a reason to buy a PS4. Really that has the potential to enrich both games.

Yes, I know it's all very unlikely at this stage. :P

A PS4 Port: costs too much money for very little benefit
Reinstatement of the XI/XIV combo subscription: they would lose money doing this, this makes zero sense. Also most XI players have zero interest in XIV, we have played it and came back because we don't like wow type games.
Streamlining of the registration process: Again, would cost too much to rewrite the whole front end of the game.
Collaboration between XI and XIV: most people don't care about the other game, most who play XIV don't like XI and vice versa. They are just completely different games.

[Moppet]

A PS4 Port: costs too much money for very little benefit
Reinstatement of the XI/XIV combo subscription: they would lose money doing this, this makes zero sense. Also most XI players have zero interest in XIV, we have played it and came back because we don't like wow type games.
Streamlining of the registration process: Again, would cost too much to rewrite the whole front end of the game.
Collaboration between XI and XIV: most people don't care about the other game, most who play XIV don't like XI and vice versa. They are just completely different games.

Ah, yes. Not surprised you responded to this since you've been bitterly nay-saying plenty of other threads.

As I said in my original post: "Yes, I know it's all very unlikely at this stage. :P"

A PS4 Port would provide plenty of benefits. It lets SE have both of their MMOs available on both platforms (PC, PS4). Allows for more exposure of the game due to the PS4's streaming and media features. Allows for remote play of the game via the Vita remote play feature. It gives a console option to players who can no longer play it on older consoles. Also, it would fall in line with SE's push to remaster, reboot and make available older FF titles on the PS4.

Why would they lose any money reinstating this? Polarized players who only play XI or only play XIV would be paying for one or the other subscription in the first place. The combo subscription originally cost more then either subscription.

First of all, I doubt you have any idea how much it would cost to "rewrite the whole front end of the game" or to what extent they would have to do so. Secondly, I am making these suggestions fully aware that it would only be possible if the state of the game changed in some profound way.

Finally, the assertion that XI/XIV players don't care about the other game is totally baseless. I saw a lot of new MMO players who were playing XIV show interest in XI due to the crossover event, and some XIV players who decided to try XI because of it. I also know plenty of players who play XI and still resub to XIV to check out new content.

I could go on, but frankly I don't believe you actually care.

[Dekusuta]

I wouldn't mind a cross FFXI/XIV sub; there's a lot to like in XIV. I ultimately stopped because none of my friends of XI stayed to play.

might be interesting to do crossovers between the two games. Eorzea as a new land in future FFXI patches and Vana'diel as a XIV area :P I think Jeuno and all the old zones with modern graphics would get a lot of us to resub to XIV

[AoiX]

Iroha and Shantotto have been both in FFXIV as cross-over events. It would be nice if we get the scions of the 7th dawn as guests in vana'diel.

[Pixela]

Fancy graphics are a curse, go check out ff14 then look at the forums. All they care about is shallow nonsense.

Just enjoy the game for what it is.

[dmuller30]

Fancy graphics are a curse, go check out ff14 then look at the forums. All they care about is shallow nonsense.

Just enjoy the game for what it is.


There is nothing wrong with striving for better :)

[Pixela]

There is nothing wrong with striving for better :)

Graphics don't make a game better, more content does. If pretty graphics mattered over content, you and I would be playing games that already offer amazing graphics, I came from a game with the best graphics in the genre and now I'm paying to play this.

Time taken to upgrade graphics takes away from adding new content, sad fact of reality.

[dmuller30]

Graphics don't make a game better, more content does. If pretty graphics mattered over content, you and I would be playing games that already offer amazing graphics, I came from a game with the best graphics in the genre and now I'm paying to play this.

Time taken to upgrade graphics takes away from adding new content, sad fact of reality.

Actually visual + game play make a good game. And that is my opinion just like yours is great gameplay onry. Now for the ones who want good upgraded graphics that is there opinion and I agree with them. I don't play WoW because I don't like the graphics. To me you can have the best game play in the world but I don't want to sit and stare at a game I don't find visually appealing. I do find FFXI visually appealing because I grew up playing it so the graphics don't bother me. But I would love to see a visual upgrade on the game.

[Pixela]

Actually visual + game play make a good game. And that is my opinion just like yours is great gameplay onry. Now for the ones who want good upgraded graphics that is there opinion and I agree with them. I don't play WoW because I don't like the graphics. To me you can have the best game play in the world but I don't want to sit and stare at a game I don't find visually appealing. I do find FFXI visually appealing because I grew up playing it so the graphics don't bother me. But I would love to see a visual upgrade on the game.

When I said graphics don't matter, I meant in terms of the current game. As in adding more polygons or increasing the texture maps doesn't matter when compared to just adding more content to it. If Square spent 10 million making the engine of ffxi look like ffxiv but didn't add any new content almost all of us would leave.

As I said, you can't have a graphics upgrade without them stopping work on new content, do you want more content or better graphics? You can't have both... unless you expect them to put a whole other team on making graphics upgrades.

Also many are vastly underestimating how much a graphics upgrade would cost for this game, mainly in terms of how much money people who do this are paid.

[Olor]

The graphics of ffxi are fine... my only wish is they would add more granularity to the settings rather than requiring registry edits to get best graphics. Also getting off direct X 8 or whatever it's running would be swell.

[dmuller30]

When I said graphics don't matter, I meant in terms of the current game. As in adding more polygons or increasing the texture maps doesn't matter when compared to just adding more content to it. If Square spent 10 million making the engine of ffxi look like ffxiv but didn't add any new content almost all of us would leave.

As I said, you can't have a graphics upgrade without them stopping work on new content, do you want more content or better graphics? You can't have both... unless you expect them to put a whole other team on making graphics upgrades.

Also many are vastly underestimating how much a graphics upgrade would cost for this game, mainly in terms of how much money people who do this are paid.

So your telling me that most other games that have enhanced their graphics had to hire a whole other team to pump out those graphical increases and spend an insane amount of money to do so? Bull, look at modding community texture packs can be built by just a few people and they leave the game looking amazing. Not to mention upgrading and enhancing our character models can be done just the same with just 2/3 people. If they can do it with 2/3 people then so could SE. Character creation on this game is in it's most simplest form so the creation of HD remade models would be pretty easy or implementing the ones used in character creation with enhanced graphics would be minimal effort. There are tons of people on this game that want a graphical upgrades of some kind, not just the people on this post. And SE or any other company wouldn't say we are doing a graphics update so lets just halt the implementation of any new content that is just common sense. WoW, Aion, Tera are just a few among many who went through graphical upgrades while still getting new content added and improving on old content. So if other companies can enhance graphics on both F2P and P2P so could SE considering it is now possible with no PS2 or XBOX to limit them.

[Catmato]

In my opinion, the best upgrade they could make would be to make the game engine use a modern Direct X version. Imagine FFXI at a constant 60 fps...

[Diraco]

If you have a >4.8GHz i5-3570k and a reasonable video card, you should be able to maintain 60fps under all conditions with shadows off -- but only on windows XP 32-bit. The direct3d translation Microsoft added in later windows versions adds about 30% overhead, which will cut the framerate down from 60 to ~45fps in the worst case. Processors newer than the 3570k (which can't run windows XP properly) are not faster enough to make up for this translation overhead. Due to intel's recent refocus on low-performance computing, this situation is not likely to change for a very long time.

[Pixela]

If you have a >4.8GHz i5-3570k and a reasonable video card, you should be able to maintain 60fps under all conditions with shadows off -- but only on windows XP 32-bit. The direct3d translation Microsoft added in later windows versions adds about 30% overhead, which will cut the framerate down from 60 to ~45fps in the worst case. Processors newer than the 3570k (which can't run windows XP properly) are not faster enough to make up for this translation overhead. Due to intel's recent refocus on low-performance computing, this situation is not likely to change for a very long time.

No mmorpg can maintain 60fps due to the nature of them.

[Diavolo]

If you have a >4.8GHz i5-3570k and a reasonable video card, you should be able to maintain 60fps under all conditions with shadows off -- but only on windows XP 32-bit. The direct3d translation Microsoft added in later windows versions adds about 30% overhead, which will cut the framerate down from 60 to ~45fps in the worst case. Processors newer than the 3570k (which can't run windows XP properly) are not faster enough to make up for this translation overhead. Due to intel's recent refocus on low-performance computing, this situation is not likely to change for a very long time.

You can run at a stable 60fps (or close enough, anyway) with shadows on and draw distance turned up to max without needing to use a 32-bit Win XP.

[Catmato]

FFXI is capped at < 30fps...

[Diavolo]

FFXI is capped at < 30fps...

You don't have to search very hard to see this can be changed, like a lot of other aspects of the game.

[Qamaqi]

pardon my english
omg, I would love to see an upgrade graphics in ffxi, even if it is only to HD textures and not a remake. Also 60 fps would be lovely.
I am not a current player, quit last december but talked with some rl friends and they may be interested to come back if something like graphic upgrade is made.
We will pay for that, obvioulsy not $90 but a $29.90 like an expantion sounds good,
I tossed money to SE for this game for 12 years, i don't care to toss some extra $ more if it makes my game prettier.
god, i miss my game ;_;

[wildsprite]

The devs really just need to bring the game up to full DirectX 9.0c/e support and that would solve a lot of the graphics issues right there, not really sure how much work it would take to do this. however with the impliment of xinput controller support we know they have atleast partial DX9.0c support, hopefully adding the rest wouldn't be too difficult.


for those that dont realize it upgrading the framework to DX9.0c would give the game more stable graphics, less graphical anomolies and it would also allow weather effects to be turned on for many systems that don't handle the weather right now with DX8.0 because it would make use of the GPU a lot more than it does now. as it is with DX8.0 it makes use almost entirely of the CPU and almost no GPU. would the graphics upgrade be a huge leap in pretty. not really no. but we don't really need a huge leap. just a better framework to handle what we have now.

[Catmato]

You don't have to search very hard to see this can be changed, like a lot of other aspects of the game.

That's not the point.

[Diavolo]

That's not the point.

I understand that, but options for better visuals are out there and it doesn't take a supercomputer to run them.

I've been saying this for years, but if it were up to me I'd assign a small team of programmers and artists to rebuild the game using the Unreal Engine, which SE already licenses for use in other games, and release it as a remaster, a popular trend these days. Doing this would open the game up for a plethora of changes/upgrades many of us have been asking for and the dev team couldn't get implemented because of how difficult/impossible it would be with the old PS2 engine it's currently running on. FFXI has changed enough from its early years to appeal to casual gamers as well as the more hardcore and I'm sure it would breathe new life into the game, enough to probably keep the game running at a profit for years... but that's a pipe dream. Look at how long it took for them to finally go ahead with the FFVII remake.

[Pixela]

I understand that, but options for better visuals are out there and it doesn't take a supercomputer to run them.

I've been saying this for years, but if it were up to me I'd assign a small team of programmers and artists to rebuild the game using the Unreal Engine, which SE already licenses for use in other games, and release it as a remaster, a popular trend these days. Doing this would open the game up for a plethora of changes/upgrades many of us have been asking for and the dev team couldn't get implemented because of how difficult/impossible it would be with the old PS2 engine it's currently running on. FFXI has changed enough from its early years to appeal to casual gamers as well as the more hardcore and I'm sure it would breathe new life into the game, enough to probably keep the game running at a profit for years... but that's a pipe dream. Look at how long it took for them to finally go ahead with the FFVII remake.

They don't want to appeal to new gamers, they are happy to make money off what they have. Keep in mind they have 2 competing titles and one is more important to them than the other. If they could close this game down and get us to move to the other they would love it (they have tried enough tactics), we won't go so instead of losing a large customer base they are continuing to update this game but they aren't going to directly compete with their flagship.

[Snaps]

I think it would be awesome to have a new client. I'm not a directx expert although I've read that newer versions of directx use a different set of bindings than dx8/9. The cheap and dirty route of rebuilding against directx8 vs directx9 might be possible and yield some improvements. Doing anything beyond that is essentially going to require a complete rebuild of the client. You will need more than just a small team of software engineers to do that in a reasonable amount of time. I don't think there would be much payoff for the company at this point. It would have been good earlier in the game's life cycle to focus on more maintainable software development. A better game would have attracted more customers. It's too late now to justify the cost. I would pay good money for a client rebuild although I don't think there are enough of us.

[Alhanelem]

I wouldn't consider DQX to be a direct competitor to either of the other games, it appeals to a different fan base.

[AoiX]

So, what would be the fund raising goal? What kind of stuff would be a bonus for backers? What would be stretch goals?

[Zumi]

You don't have to search very hard to see this can be changed, like a lot of other aspects of the game.

It is hard capped at 30 fps. I have a fps monitor on one of my video capture programs. I have a gtx 970 and a core i7 6700k and it never can go above 30 fps.

[Catmato]

It is hard capped at 30 fps. I have a fps monitor on one of my video capture programs. I have a gtx 970 and a core i7 6700k and it never can go above 30 fps.

You're correct, barring the possibility of any third party programs removing the limit.

[Kjara]

I'd even be happy if they just allowed that game that's in the work (Grandmasters of Vana'diel, something like that?) to be playable on computer. I have no mobile, but even if I did I think playing an RPG on that would be pretty obnoxious... I mean, you have to farm, grind, etc. How long can a phone last like that? The pictures of the graphics look pretty good, and a friend of mine who's more into hardware stuff tells me the game is run on an engine pretty easy to emulate on computer.

[Pixela]

It is hard capped at 30 fps. I have a fps monitor on one of my video capture programs. I have a gtx 970 and a core i7 6700k and it never can go above 30 fps.

Goto youtube, type ffxi 60fps into search.

Looks amazing.

[Atomic_Skull]

The devs really just need to bring the game up to full DirectX 9.0c/e support and that would solve a lot of the graphics issues right there, not really sure how much work it would take to do this. however with the impliment of xinput controller support we know they have atleast partial DX9.0c support, hopefully adding the rest wouldn't be too difficult.


for those that dont realize it upgrading the framework to DX9.0c would give the game more stable graphics, less graphical anomolies and it would also allow weather effects to be turned on for many systems that don't handle the weather right now with DX8.0 because it would make use of the GPU a lot more than it does now. as it is with DX8.0 it makes use almost entirely of the CPU and almost no GPU. would the graphics upgrade be a huge leap in pretty. not really no. but we don't really need a huge leap. just a better framework to handle what we have now.

There is no backwards compatibility for DX8 on the Xbox 360's version of DX9 so the 360 version MUST be using DX9.

They already copy pasted the Dirext Input code from the 360 version a few months ago, they should do the same with the DX9 code.

[Kjara]

Goto youtube, type ffxi 60fps into search.

Looks amazing.

I did hear about this from a friend and now have taken the time to look at it. It looks more fluid, yes, but the graphics look the same to me. I think what people are asking for is more polygons, similar to the Character Creator graphics, if not better (FFXIV level?).

[Atomic_Skull]

I did hear about this from a friend and now have taken the time to look at it. It looks more fluid, yes, but the graphics look the same to me. I think what people are asking for is more polygons, similar to the Character Creator graphics, if not better (FFXIV level?).

What most people here seem to be asking for is just a client update so it runs better on modern hardware not a graphics overhaul.

[BobbinT]

well... FF14 in game config has option to switch between 15/30/60 fps. Would've great if FF11 also has this too, even though I know that there's unofficial way to make the game go 60 fps.

While graphics will remain the same, the fluid gameplay on 60 fps does improve the game's QoL, at least from my own opinion. ^.^

[Elexia]

I wouldn't consider DQX to be a direct competitor to either of the other games, it appeals to a different fan base.

DQX and XIV are what's keeping SE affloat atm, by the way, and in Japan, DQ > FF, so in a sense, they are actually competitiors but both make SE tons of money.


What most people here seem to be asking for is just a client update so it runs better on modern hardware not a graphics overhaul.

This. Even upscaling the graphics is something they can do, doesn't have to be an "overhaul", but all it takes is SE getting the resources and fund to do so.

But with FFXV and VII Remake no doubt sapping them dry, and XIV making tons of money with their Mogstation stuff and minimal content updates, would it even be beneficial for them to dedicate resources to XI? I know the XI team would be all for it, but they have to convenience the big bosses to let them go wild so to speak.

[wildsprite]

There is no backwards compatibility for DX8 on the Xbox 360's version of DX9 so the 360 version MUST be using DX9.

They already copy pasted the Dirext Input code from the 360 version a few months ago, they should do the same with the DX9 code.
would be nice if they did, maybe they are slowly doing this. I wish they would redo Playonline Viewer into a much more compact version, there is no need for as many clicks as we have to go through to get into the game. yeah I know they said they weren't going to get rid of it but that doesnt mean they couldnt change it to get rid of the extra fluff.


This. Even upscaling the graphics is something they can do, doesn't have to be an "overhaul", but all it takes is SE getting the resources and fund to do so.

But with FFXV and VII Remake no doubt sapping them dry, and XIV making tons of money with their Mogstation stuff and minimal content updates, would it even be beneficial for them to dedicate resources to XI? I know the XI team would be all for it, but they have to convenience the big bosses to let them go wild so to speak.

just changing the game to full DX9.0c(they have partial support now or we wouldnt have xinput as an option now) would improve the graphic a bit and also the stability of the game. allowing for them to give us 60fps or more since it would allow the game to make more use of the GPU than DX8.1 does
while this would not be a huge leap it would be a noticable improvement on most levels

[Gankfest]

You could always play FFXIV lol