Broken/Useless BLU magic

[Olor]

Hi,

After seeing many threads that tangentially talk about this I thought it would be good to have a thread that systematically outlined which spells are broken and or useless, and suggestions about how the development team could make them worth using.

BLU is in a much better position than a lot of the unloved jobs club, but it is really annoying that so many of our spells are completely fail at this point. Worse, the developers seem to think that just adding more spells that mostly suck is some kind of solution.

If people could add their two bits, I will edit the top post to reflect suggestions. If anything I (or others) note about a spell is wrong, let me know so I can fix! I am working off my experience and wikis which may not be up to date.

Please give me suggestions for which spell fixes should be a priority, I will put them up here in the top post.

[Olor]

Sprout Smack


Slow almost never procs on modern content
Does essentially no damage (which would be okay if slow procced)


HOW TO FIX:

Increase accuracy of BLU magic additional effects on ilevel content


Wild Oats


VIT down almost never procs on modern content
Does essentially no damage (would be okay if enfeeble procced)


HOW TO FIX:

Increase accuracy of BLU magic additional effects on ilevel content


Metallic Body


Caps much too low
Doesn't benefit from Stoneskin enhancing gear


HOW TO FIX:

Remove cap/raise cap to be same as normal stoneskin
allow it it benefit from stoneskin enhancing gear


Head Butt


Doesn't work on most ilevel content


HOW TO FIX:

Increase accuracy of BLU magic additional effects on ilevel content


Feather Storm


Poison doesn't proc on most ilevel content
Damage is subpar (would be okay if additional effect worked)
Rapid shot is a useless trait for BLU mage as we can't equip most ranged weapons


HOW TO FIX:

Increase accuracy of BLU magic additional effects on ilevel content
Replace Rapid Shot with a Magic Accuracy trait or something else that's useful


Bludgeon


Does almost no damage at higher levels


HOW TO FIX:

Better scale the power of physical BLU magic


Cursed Sphere


Takes too long to cast
Doesn't do enough damage



HOW TO FIX:

Decrease casting time of magical BLU spells
Increase power of magical BLU spells


Blood Drain


Takes too long to cast
Doesn't do enough damage
Worst heal ever



HOW TO FIX:

Decrease casting time of magical BLU spells
Increase power of magical BLU spells


Claw Cyclone


Takes too long to cast
Doesn't do enough damage
Damage scales very poorly



HOW TO FIX:

Decrease casting time of physical BLU spells
Increase power of physical BLU spells
Improve damage of physical BLU spells

[Olor]

Reserve Post for future needs

:)

[Tennotsukai]

Love this thread!

IMO, the higher priority fixes should go to barbed crescent and tourbillion, since those would benefit us quite a bit as long as they are accurate enough.

I wouldn't mind seeing all of our spells receive some sort of buff since we don't use most of them. I know it sounds a bit weird to give some of these lesser leveled physical spells a buff, but I thought how black magic elemental spells received buffs so should blue magic spells of all kinds. This would also benefit the new patch coming soon to give blu's multiple tiers in many of our job traits. Some spells that need to be equipped for certain job traits are rather useless, but this idea of buffing low leveled spells to affect ilvl content may allow those spells to maybe see the light of day again.

I can't wait to see updates for this post.

[Babekeke]

In response to some of what Olor said:

Many of the requests are for low level spells not doing enough damage. Bear in mind how little MP cost they all have. Obviously the higher level spells that cost more are going to do more damage!

As for Head Butt not proccing on ilvl content, unless by ilvl content you mean just ilvl 119, I find it works on most mobs in colonisation reives and even WKR bosses as RUN/BLU.

1 thing I would also like to add is, is there a more up-to-date renkai chart somewhere that includes the SC properties of post-75 WS and BLU spells? It's such a pain clicking on every spell to see their properties when you're after something that will SC with a specific WS (most recently Requiescat... anyone know the best spell to combine with that now?)

[Dreamin]

In response to some of what Olor said:

Many of the requests are for low level spells not doing enough damage. Bear in mind how little MP cost they all have. Obviously the higher level spells that cost more are going to do more damage!

As for Head Butt not proccing on ilvl content, unless by ilvl content you mean just ilvl 119, I find it works on most mobs in colonisation reives and even WKR bosses as RUN/BLU.

1 thing I would also like to add is, is there a more up-to-date renkai chart somewhere that includes the SC properties of post-75 WS and BLU spells? It's such a pain clicking on every spell to see their properties when you're after something that will SC with a specific WS (most recently Requiescat... anyone know the best spell to combine with that now?)

I do Req -> Barbed Crescent for Dark but most of the time I just stick with CDC -> Amorphic Spikes for Light.

I rather SE just leave those lower level spells since it's pointless to set/use most of them and rather look at giving us better utility combo spells that gives us the Job Traits that most of us desired the most.

[Olor]

In response to some of what Olor said:

Many of the requests are for low level spells not doing enough damage. Bear in mind how little MP cost they all have. Obviously the higher level spells that cost more are going to do more damage!

As for Head Butt not proccing on ilvl content, unless by ilvl content you mean just ilvl 119, I find it works on most mobs in colonisation reives and even WKR bosses as RUN/BLU.

1 thing I would also like to add is, is there a more up-to-date renkai chart somewhere that includes the SC properties of post-75 WS and BLU spells? It's such a pain clicking on every spell to see their properties when you're after something that will SC with a specific WS (most recently Requiescat... anyone know the best spell to combine with that now?)

In terms of cost, how much does stone 1 cost? Yet BLMs etc can spam that for massive damage now. I think its not reasonable for most of our spells to be lucky to hit more than 100 damage. If BLM can use stone 1 at level 119 why shouldn't blu have a use for sprout smack? Foot kick scales when rabbits use it - why is ours stuck at negligible damage?

Anyway i was planning to go through each of them in order and suggest what needs to happen for them.

[Malithar]

You'd save yourself a lot of posting space by simply saying "uncap D values for all Blu spells." Nearly every spell below what, lvl 80-85ish is capped? idk, no Blu expect, but know that the damage values cap quite early.

[Olor]

yeah I was thinking that as I went through, ha ha. That said, I'd be happy to trade damage on these spells if the effects actually procced (and let us know whether it did or not before it wears off or doesn't cause it didn't land)...

[Babekeke]

In terms of cost, how much does stone 1 cost? Yet BLMs etc can spam that for massive damage now. I think its not reasonable for most of our spells to be lucky to hit more than 100 damage. If BLM can use stone 1 at level 119 why shouldn't blu have a use for sprout smack? Foot kick scales when rabbits use it - why is ours stuck at negligible damage?


Probably due in part to the fact that BLU can set it's own Job Traits and so do plenty of damage to mobs just by dual-wielding with TA set and /WAR. No point fixing spells that aren't used in the decent JTs as far as I'm concerned as they'll never get set anyway.

[Tennotsukai]

Seeing as how we're receiving more blue magic spell points, more stackable traits, and new spells, I wouldn't mind equipping some of those older spells for their traits and stats. However, it would be nice to still utilize them somehow by having them somewhat effective in end game content.

Some additional effects and different damage types from our older spells could be rather handy if they scaled more to our level.

[Bayohne]

One of the core design concepts for blue magic is based around the fact that as you level up, more powerful spells will become available. Due to this, the development team would prefer to focus on adding new blue magic at the higher-level tiers rather than to adjust low-level spells. However, they are aware that there is a limited variety of single-target physical blue magic and support-type blue magic in the high-level tier so they are planning to add more, but it will take some time until they become available.

[Olor]

One of the core design concepts for blue magic is based around the fact that as you level up, more powerful spells will become available. Due to this, the development team would prefer to focus on adding new blue magic at the higher-level tiers rather than to adjust low-level spells. However, they are aware that there is a limited variety of single-target physical blue magic and support-type blue magic in the high-level tier so they are planning to add more, but it will take some time until they become available.

Can you at least make sure unique blue mage buffs remain relevant, and consider adjusting magical blue magic to suck less? Currently the only reason I equip magical blue magic is to get a trait or for voidwatch. It all takes too long to cast, does little damage, and has additional effects that rarely proc.

Thanks for responding!

[Puck]

Please add more point-economical spells for acquiring important traits. We need to spend most of our points just setting Auto-Refresh, Dual Wield III, and Triple Attack, and we need those traits in most situations. If you add high-level spells we can set to acquire those traits while only spending half as many points, we'd have a LOT more freedom to put our other spells to use. It'll also provide a way of getting around the 20 spell limit since we'll be able to free a lot of slots along with those points.

In line with that, it would also be nice to add higher tiers of traits like Attack Bonus which currently provide too weak of a bonus to be worthwhile.

[Ophannus]

Also while Nature's Meditation was nice, we need a longer duration than 60 seconds. How about 5min duration like Battery Charge/Animating Wail. If that's too powerful then at least 3 minutes or give it a higher MP cost.

[Babekeke]

In line with that, it would also be nice to add higher tiers of traits like Attack Bonus which currently provide too weak of a bonus to be worthwhile.

You know that they already announced that this is coming, right!? May update.


Blue Mage
The applicable job trait gained when setting a blue magic spell will display in the help text along with its accompanying value.

The following job traits will become incrementally more potent depending on the total of set blue magic job trait values displayed in the help text.

Physical Attack Bonus / Defense Bonus / Evasion Bonus / Accuracy Bonus / Magic Atk. Bonus / Magic Def. Bonus / Conserve MP

[Puck]

Oh yeah, totally forgot we were getting something this update. But still, it's pointless without giving us more freedom to set spells. What good is Attack Bonus III if I have to set 4 useless spells just to get it? We need spells that will let us set important traits at much lower point costs.

[Tennotsukai]

I'm very happy you were able to reply to this thread, Bayohne. In light of the reassuring news of more blue spells, I ask that you guys please stay away from Breath Damage Type Spells. They are awful. On another note, I'm somewhat saddened SE decided to go the easy route of fixing blue mage via new spells as opposed to fixing older ones, so I have high hopes that these newer spells will kick blue mage in a higher gear.

As usual, I would also like to remind you guys again that Tourbillion and Barbed Crescent are still broken. I really hope you all haven't forgotten :)

[Tennotsukai]

In response to some of what Olor said:

Many of the requests are for low level spells not doing enough damage. Bear in mind how little MP cost they all have. Obviously the higher level spells that cost more are going to do more damage!

As for Head Butt not proccing on ilvl content, unless by ilvl content you mean just ilvl 119, I find it works on most mobs in colonisation reives and even WKR bosses as RUN/BLU.

1 thing I would also like to add is, is there a more up-to-date renkai chart somewhere that includes the SC properties of post-75 WS and BLU spells? It's such a pain clicking on every spell to see their properties when you're after something that will SC with a specific WS (most recently Requiescat... anyone know the best spell to combine with that now?)

Quad Continuum

[Rwolf]

I'm probably against the grain with this one, but this reply is disappointing to me. I feel like we have to be grateful of anything we get for Blue Mage simply because it took years to even be noticed. So any news is like: "Better accept it or they could just ignore the Blue Mage community all over again."

I don't think that it is fair that elemental magic gets this huge overhaul and focus to make all of it work with modern day FFXI. Yet all other classes of magic continue to fall behind, and the answer now is basically "Our concept is you will only use the high level spells and eventually we'll add more spells." Leveling is now so quick, this message basically says ignore learning those spells and use high level ones. That is disheartening to me. Besides my personal feeling on that concept, I fear almost all of this doesn't fix the problems most wrong with Blue Mage.

Additional Effects: A lot of spells have been broken for a long time, some of them since their creation. We know they are capable of working, because they work just fine on the Test Server. So it seems like it is just ignored. Blue Mage has amazing utility through these enfeebling and enhancing effects that made them whole. It would be nice, necessary in fact, to actually use some of these spells on Delve Megabosses and High Level Battlefields and they actually stick consistently.

Job Traits & Set Costs/Max Spell Space: It was certainly a unique idea to have equippable spells. However, if they won't expand the max set points/spaces considerably or consolidate traits to take up less space then what's the point of having freedom to choose? Spells aren't the same thing as weapons and armor. It shouldn't be one clear list of spells you have to use just to gain traits you need to balance themselves to have decent damage over time while not casting costly spells. The fear of Blue Mage having too many traits or attributes at once is unfounded. Most of the traits don't interact with each other, it simply makes them a highly versatile class as hybrid classes should be.

Low Base Damage, High MP Cost & Casting Time: Without Azure Lore, Chain Affinity and Efflux; damage over time is rough on most Blue Magic both Physical and Magical. When you look at the damage capability of Elemental Magic currently, Blue Magic doesn't even come close without receiving boosts from places such as Abyssea. In Adoulin content, Elemental Magic outpaces Blue Magic by a large margin. Not only is it much more devastating in damage dealt but also in MP conservation. Done correctly, you can go on forever without ever a concern for running out of MP.

Expanding set points was a start in the right direction but it's attached to such an arduous system. Yes, job points are getting a boost and I can't speak to how fast they will accrue after the update. However, a fix should just be a natural addition to the job. As Matsui just stated in his May Update post, Job Points is a method of growth. I don't see the concerns of the Blue Mage community as growth, but fixing issues that keeps Blue Mage from being desirable in new content. While I thoroughly welcome the eventual addition of new Blue Magic as we should get some from more families, I don't think it's fair to ignore over a hundred spells you can already do something with.

[Rubeus]

I'm actually with Rwolf. When setting spells to solo the Rem's tales battlefields, I noticed a trend: I didn't have anything that didn't suck that was strong to the monster family in question. Wildskeepers are the same, as is pretty much any "you need to take this seriously" content. My options are set a bunch of traits that will either have minimal impact or set useful spells that won't be receiving any kind of monster correlation bonus OR elemental weakness. If BLU is to be taken seriously in end-game, then this doesn't fix the problem. Fixing the problem would be having at least 1 spell of every family that's physical that doesn't suck and a couple magical of most-common elements that don't suck.
Brothers D'Aurphe is a great example. There are no light-based Arcana spells, and the only fire is Self-Destruct. Our only real contender for physical is Smite of Rage or Bludgeon; which suck.

Not to mention by the time I've killed just 1 shadow, even with auto-refresh, 3 refresh in gear, and battery charge I'll probably be bone-dry AND waiting on recasts. That's broken. Let's also not forget that all the adoulin spells that were recently added have no WSC. ... Still. If you're going to add new spells I'm all for useful ones, or more enhancing/healing ones, considering we still don't have pixie, mantid, heartwing, leafkin, sandworm, and a great deal of other families. But make sure they're complete spells, not sort-of spells. I don't want to sort-of carry around 8+ sets of gear for stats and HP+ and sort-of deal damage that a WAR not trying very hard could achieve while stoned. That's sort-of unfair.

[Olor]

It's not just "sort of unfair" its purely unfair. Frankly, I'd rather they just allow our magic to scale like all other mages' magic has scaled - again if BLM can cast stone 1 at level 119, I'm not sure why I need a 5 point spell that costs 189 MP to do any kind of damage. We need low cost, quick casting magic that actually does damage or has enfeebles that land. We don't need 1 minute buffs and spells that do 200 damage max, which is most of what we got last time we got "new" spells.

[Draylo]

Upgrade 1000 needles and Bad breath! :)

[Rwolf]

I agree with all of you. It would be awesome to make monster correlation part of strategy again. Not only for Blue Mage, but Beastmaster as well. I thought with Adoulin being so specific with elements and types of monsters. That elemental offense, defense and monster correlation would become more strategic than currently used. I also agree with the low duration buffs. If Red Mage can Temper and Phalanx themselves for 3 minutes with no job abilities or gear. I don't see why we at least can't get 3 minute duration on things like Cocoon and Nature's Meditation. 1000 Needles doesn't need the MP cost, set cost or the inherent magic accuracy down. 1000 damage is a drop in the bucket for any job capable of damage now.

I feel like some of the ideas to fix Blue Mage is shot down as overpowered without even really considering what makes it so.

[Rubeus]

Honestly, if my BLU had about 50 slots to set spells and about 200 BMP to set them, I could maintain having a Dispel, a Sleep, a few elemental nukes and debuffs, a cure and -ga, an Erase, and a handful of "you NEED to use this to solo a double-darkness during azure lore" abilities. Hell, I wouldn't even mind if I had to unbridled wisdom some spells in that list. But then, I'll also need to keep Magic Hammer and Animating Wail and Battery Charge and ...

do you see the problem here? Now let's go ahead and add in attack bonus for +10 attack, skillchain bonus so I'm not laughed out of events, magic burst bonus so I can foam at the mouth when someone interrupts my skillchain during azure lore with a Flat Blade for stunning the boss, aaaand a bunch of other job traits that will all be outclassed by anyone subbing BRD at 49. Then we'll butcher blue magic physical accuracy -- which we have as yet not gotten an increase for, and even with a buramenkah and the ilvl119 Artifact and Relic sets with swap pieces for the still-80s-Mavi set, -maybe- I won't miss 1 out of 20 hits on a physical spell. Don't believe me? Go ask any BLU who has done Colkhab 20+ times for Droning Whirlwind, wearing blue magic skill gear at ilvl119.

With all those set spells and all those utility spells, it doesn't really matter where I try to cut corners. I could sub WAR for double attack, DNC for skillchain bonus and dual wield, RUN for anything I need to solo, or RDM for the not-nerfed fast cast (which is BS by the way). It really won't make a difference which job you sub to not "NEED" to set some worthless blue magic in order to have a balance of traits. It won't make a difference because right now I *DO* have 70 blue magic points but even with that the entire job grasps at straws for what any 109 ranger can do with a single flashy shot using eminent bow and old arrows. Item "old arrows," not pejorative old arrows.

Something, I feel, is wrong here. I'm supposed to be able to at least occasionally be useful to do stuff. Not stand around Jeuno and watch as countless hours learning blue magic go to waste as I sit there with windows calculator open trying to figure out how many blue magic spells I can squeeze out of 70 points with a less-than-ideal subjob simply because I'll get dual wield III if I just move a bunch of stuff around.

And no, increasing blue magic points to 90 over the course of another year in updates raising the job point categories to 30 a piece is not equivalent to "we fixed it!" -- and neither is "we added tiers for traits." Great, now I can open my handy calculator and figure out how on earth I'm supposed to fit Attack Bonus IV into the mix and still be able to do ANYTHING ELSE WORTH DOING.

/endrant

[dragmagi]

It be better if blue traits stacked with traits from subs too

[Mefuki]

Due to this, the development team would prefer to focus on adding new blue magic at the higher-level tiers rather than to adjust low-level spells.

Well, that doesn't make much sense. Why would you want to make such a robust spell list(BLU spell list) as shallow as possible? Every single spell should have a function. There should be some situation where I'd say to myself, "I might want to use X for now. It's probably the better option while fighting X, given the circumstances." And between monster correlation, elemental affinity, whether a spell is physical or magical, whether the physical spell is blunt, piercing or slashing, etc, you can make that happen. Doing that is what gives battle depth to a game. Not saying, "Here's 5 spells. They're the only ones worth using at your level." That makes for a really shallow battle experience.

That's not even getting into the fact that the VAST majority of spells had NO function even at the level you learned them(Ice Break, Death Ray, 1000 needles, Mortal Ray...there's seriously too many to name) aside from the traits they gave you. Which, again, doesn't make any sense.

You're saying, "They are aware that there is a limited variety of single-target physical blue magic and support-type blue magic in the high-level tier so they are planning to add more"...but do they not see we have them already. We have a ton of physical BLU spells and various support abilities. All we need is a spell that does X that isn't heavy penalized right out of the gate. WE HAVE THEM ALREADY BUT they're content with keeping them not worth casting while trying to scrounge around for spells from monsters that can replace the things that already barely work. That's a really obtuse way to fix this problem.

No, the solution is to make every spell useful but in different situations. Am I saying that even Foot Kick should serve a function at 99? Well, yes. You can't just look at spells and say, "This is a single target physical spell. Just replace it with another." Great, now we've got a grand total of 1 spell that's worth bothering with(or at least it would be if BLU magic was worth casting on targets you'd want to use non-autoattack solutions on) instead of 2 that can both be useful if given the ability to be so. What should be happening is:

*Your opponent is a Lizard who's weak to slashing. You want to deal single target physical damage. What do you do?*
"Oh, use Foot Kick."
*Now you're fighting a Plantoid who's weak to blunt. You want to deal single target physical damage. What do you do?*
"Power Attack, probably."
etc.

Instead, what IS happening is more like:

*Your opponent is a Lizard who's weak to slashing. You want to deal single target physical damage. What do you do?*
"I swing my sword."
*Now you're fighting a Plantoid who's weak to blunt. You want to deal single target physical damage. What do you do?*
"...I swing my sword"
etc.

Make no mistake there's a way to make every spell in our spell list useful but the Devs have to be willing to actually make them useful.

[Tennotsukai]

It be better if blue traits stacked with traits from subs too

That'd be sweet! I really hope they implement these newer spells in one of these next few months. I feel like they are beating around the bush with them.

I'd like +50 new spells please! This would help alleviate the worthlessness of our 100 other spells.

[Damane]

That'd be sweet! I really hope they implement these newer spells in one of these next few months. I feel like they are beating around the bush with them.

I'd like +50 new spells please! This would help alleviate the worthlessness of our 100 other spells.

I need more spells slots if the newer spells dont offer allready avialable traits in a condensed form, because right now after the job point grinding, that I can set more traits, BUT i am limited because of the spellslots avialable... and thus underuseing my max spell points available :/

[dasva]

One of the core design concepts for blue magic is based around the fact that as you level up, more powerful spells will become available. Due to this, the development team would prefer to focus on adding new blue magic at the higher-level tiers rather than to adjust low-level spells. However, they are aware that there is a limited variety of single-target physical blue magic and support-type blue magic in the high-level tier so they are planning to add more, but it will take some time until they become available.

That doesn't address the problem of broken spells there are several spells that have basically never worked. They were unlandable on anything worth fighting and that includes higher level spells too. Really should fix them since it's been idk what 5 years now they have been broken

[Olor]

You're saying, "They are aware that there is a limited variety of single-target physical blue magic and support-type blue magic in the high-level tier so they are planning to add more"...but do they not see we have them already. We have a ton of physical BLU spells and various support abilities. All we need is a spell that does X that isn't heavy penalized right out of the gate. WE HAVE THEM ALREADY BUT they're content with keeping them not worth casting while trying to scrounge around for spells from monsters that can replace the things that already barely work. That's a really obtuse way to fix this problem.

No, the solution is to make every spell useful but in different situations. Am I saying that even Foot Kick should serve a function at 99? Well, yes. You can't just look at spells and say, "This is a single target physical spell. Just replace it with another." Great, now we've got a grand total of 1 spell that's worth bothering with(or at least it would be if BLU magic was worth casting on targets you'd want to use non-autoattack solutions on) instead of 2 that can both be useful if given the ability to be so. What should be happening is:

*Your opponent is a Lizard who's weak to slashing. You want to deal single target physical damage. What do you do?*
"Oh, use Foot Kick."
*Now you're fighting a Plantoid who's weak to blunt. You want to deal single target physical damage. What do you do?*
"Power Attack, probably."
etc.

Instead, what IS happening is more like:

*Your opponent is a Lizard who's weak to slashing. You want to deal single target physical damage. What do you do?*
"I swing my sword."
*Now you're fighting a Plantoid who's weak to blunt. You want to deal single target physical damage. What do you do?*
"...I swing my sword"
etc.

Make no mistake there's a way to make every spell in our spell list useful but the Devs have to be willing to actually make them useful.

I can't express how much I agree with this. I think foot kick and power attack etc, all our low cost spells should be just as useful as stone 1 is to black mages. We have the makings of a really interesting magic system already - the spells we have should be fixed.

I want all the time I spent learning blue magic to be respected - the way to respect that time and effort is to make EVERY SPELL USEFUL. There is no flexibility possible if 99% of our magic is left broken.

Basically, if you use a low level spell, correctly with monster affinity/damage types - it should do similar damage to stone 1 used by a sch or rdm at the very least.

We also need more gear with blu magic skill on it, or the effects of the blue magic skill we already have need to be boosted significantly.

[Damane]

That doesn't address the problem of broken spells there are several spells that have basically never worked. They were unlandable on anything worth fighting and that includes higher level spells too. Really should fix them since it's been idk what 5 years now they have been broken

I have given up on this dasva, really I dont give a shit anymore if they ever fix barbed crescent, tourbillion etc... including metatron torment and various other WS add effects. Its a shame but I have given up that those things will ever get fixed

[Damane]

I can't express how much I agree with this. I think foot kick and power attack etc, all our low cost spells should be just as useful as stone 1 is to black mages. We have the makings of a really interesting magic system already - the spells we have should be fixed.

I want all the time I spent learning blue magic to be respected - the way to respect that time and effort is to make EVERY SPELL USEFUL. There is no flexibility possible if 99% of our magic is left broken.

Basically, if you use a low level spell, correctly with monster affinity/damage types - it should do similar damage to stone 1 used by a sch or rdm at the very least.

We also need more gear with blu magic skill on it, or the effects of the blue magic skill we already have need to be boosted significantly.

you DO know that tier 1 nukes of the mages are basicly their normal "melee swings" (since they sit in the backline) and their "WSs" are basicly the tier 3-5 nukes right? BLU has decent melee swing power they dont need a equivalent to tier 1 nuke of mages.
This is also the reason why magic damage has a significant higher impact on T1 and T2 spells then on T3-T5 spells. They were designed that way. Besides in a fully buffed (capped haste etc).situation your BLU will do more dmg auto-attacking then any mage constantly nukeing T1 spells with zomg uber gear.

[Olor]

you DO know that tier 1 nukes of the mages are basicly their normal "melee swings" (since they sit in the backline) and their "WSs" are basicly the tier 3-5 nukes right? BLU has decent melee swing power they dont need a equivalent to tier 1 nuke of mages.
This is also the reason why magic damage has a significant higher impact on T1 and T2 spells then on T3-T5 spells. They were designed that way. Besides in a fully buffed (capped haste etc).situation your BLU will do more dmg auto-attacking then any mage constantly nukeing T1 spells with zomg uber gear.

The thing is, if people want straight melee damage BLU is a really really crappy job to bring. What BLU brings to the table (or should bring) is flexibility of damage types - as Mefuki noted - we should be able to tailor our spell list to hit the weaknesses of our prey. We should be the ideal job for NMS like say Calydontis (which switches damage type reduction shields)- but that only works if we have real T1/T2/T3/T4 spells for every ecosystem and damage type, as well as better magic based spells. Currently, we don't - so BLU loses the ONE MAJOR ADVANTAGE it should have against straight-up heavy DDs.

Why bring a BLU other than maybe for absolute terror? No reason whatsoever. Auto-Attack damage is a really #$%%y reason to bring a BLU to a party given so many other jobs do it better and don't have their damage gimped by having to constantly babysit their MP.

As for things which demand switching to magic damage only - we get screwed there completely since our only USEABLE spells are physical magic. We need at least 1 usable magic spell from every element - and we should have several tiers of every ecosystem/damage type as well. Otherwise parties really have no reason to bring a blu outside of the occasional need for something gimmicky like terror.

[Tennotsukai]

Well, at least we have requiescat. Oh wait, monks have formless strikes, nvm.

At least we have nature's meditation, dang nvm that, 60 seconds.

Oh! We have enfeebles we can use... but those usually don't ever land. Hmm...

Cocoon? Other jobs can sub and use.

Breath spells? Wtf is wrong with those!? Why are they so bad?

Okay, so most of our spells are terribad except a few that end up being worthless in high buff situations.

Honestly, I don't care for the fact they are going to neglect all our spells just please give us a significant amount of new spells with reasonable costs, job traits we'll use, and a reason to use (not broken).

Thank you.

[Damane]

Well, at least we have requiescat. Oh wait, monks have formless strikes, nvm.
same applies to nukers, if you want to change it, you have to nerf formless trikes (which is imho a good thing to do)

At least we have nature's meditation, dang nvm that, 60 seconds.
because adloqium, phalanx matter so much nowadays...

Oh! We have enfeebles we can use... but those usually don't ever land. Hmm...
you mean like all those resists RDM WHM and SCH get when yours resist? If the fight allows to stick all mage debuffs, BLU debuffs work too. Those fights tough exist rarely, and mostly mages can only stick 1 TOPs 2 debuffs (not counting in dia), because everythign else insta resists on anything remotly hard. (and dont get me started on hardmission battles on D+)

Cocoon? Other jobs can sub and use.
yeah because so many melees are subbing BLU to up their defense... only for RUN would this make sense and thats pretty situational

Breath spells? Wtf is wrong with those!? Why are they so bad?
nukes on D+ Hardmode mission battlefields, wry are they so bad!!!!! because of fucking innate 50% MDT and like obscene amounts of INT the mob has!!! nuuuuuu

Okay, so most of our spells are terribad except a few that end up being worthless in high buff situations.
EVERY spell/neglectable ability you cast in high buff situations is BAD, because you sacrifice that more DPS due to lock animations etc etc. that accounts for all jobs across the board

Honestly, I don't care for the fact they are going to neglect all our spells just please give us a significant amount of new spells with reasonable costs, job traits we'll use, and a reason to use (not broken).

Thank you.


Now dont get this the wrong, I am all for fixing jobs, but your rant sounded like a crybaby that doesnt see that NOT only BLU is suffering, there is quiet a few of other jobs that suffer the same or worse. I think actually BLU has atm the better end of the stick compared to other jobs (nukers(BLM GEO), THF, DNC, RUN, Pet jobs etc).

FFXI has gigantic flaws that need nerfing if you want to balance the jobs across the board:
1. Formless strikes, it reduces the needs for nukers or magical WSs, makeing them almost redundant
2. The miriads of buffs people can get from brds and cors swaping in and out. For ally content swaping for buffs shouldnt be possible (auto loose buffs)
for PTs: BRD should have never gotten more then 2 songs.
Reason: with the potent buffing BRD has now, there is no reason to bring other jobs that can grant different buffs, or unique debuffs to help the battle (debuffing is for me reversed buffing)
3. base dmg raising after ilvl weapon introduction was flawed, reason: mnk got a 80% base dmg increase going from 99 to ilvl 119, the rest is howevering around a 50% increase AT BEST.
4. haste, its the most OP buff, and its the reason why anythign mage like will NEVER be good enough for content unless the mage starts farting nuclear bombs out of his ass while nukeing/casting any offensiv spells. The more haste melees have the more exponential their dmg goes up. There is no buff that allows that to happen for mages or jobs that cast spells...

[Trangnai]

One of the core design concepts for blue magic is based around the fact that as you level up, more powerful spells will become available. Due to this, the development team would prefer to focus on adding new blue magic at the higher-level tiers rather than to adjust low-level spells. However, they are aware that there is a limited variety of single-target physical blue magic and support-type blue magic in the high-level tier so they are planning to add more, but it will take some time until they become available.

I really dislike this statement. But then again it could also be why I don't pull out blu much anymore. You could say "well better spells are obtained as you level up" for any caster class. One of the unquie traits of blu, was that you could build your spells to fit the role you are trying to play. The cost however is the point requirement on the spells, having no native traits until spells are equiped, and a rather low starting stat pool, that can be pushed to numbers that rival those of primary class roles.

During 75 cap (where most of our formerly good single target Magical spells are), I could reach nuke numbers on par with blms of the time. and while that may still be possible in some situations all of the good magical spells are AoE, and all of our magical spells regardless of level, with exception of a few heals and Poison Breath, maybe a few support spells like Fantod and Cocoon etc have insanely long cast times, and the damage doesn't scale well, debuffs are resisted most of the time, etc.

I feel blue magic needs scaling fixes across the board, even more so for magical spells, we also need more single target magical nukes, and ones that don't have long cast times. Backline blu isn't really much of an option anymore. Thought most people probably won't use it anyway, I would like the option for the role to be there.

Also, can you change are heals to be Alliance target able please? I'm sure this has only been asked 1000 times. It would be nice to be able to play a support/healing role as well.

[Olor]

Now dont get this the wrong, I am all for fixing jobs, but your rant sounded like a crybaby that doesnt see that NOT only BLU is suffering, there is quiet a few of other jobs that suffer the same or worse. I think actually BLU has atm the better end of the stick compared to other jobs (nukers(BLM GEO), THF, DNC, RUN, Pet jobs etc).



Not really. I mean my BLU is marginally more useful than my BST but not enough to get me an invite. A zero percent invite rate is a zero percent invite rate, even if my BLU is 15% more powerful than my LOLBST or my LOLTHF.

Crikes, they even made TH not matter even 1 bit in all the new events, poor THF... but really all jobs excluded from content are equally screwed.

[Lithera]

Lol breath attacks were always lulz on the player side of things. They're just even more lulz now.

[Rwolf]

I think the first step to bettering the feedback community is to stop playing triage with suggestions/feedback. Just because X job is currently worse than Y job doesn't matter regarding feedback. The development team has shown with these quick bountiful updates lately, they can push things out quicker. And even if they couldn't, we should give feedback unbiased and not based on what we think they will or will not do with it. I think that defeats the purpose in and of itself.

It's counter-productive of them to try and produce new spells to make up for large amount of spells already present in the game. Blue Mage's power is in their utility and that's what the job needs to shine again. Utility comes through diverse spell setups and choices allowing quick adaptation. Having the ability to target a monster's physical, magical, and ecosystem weaknesses while also having decent hard to resist breath-type (it's not magical) damage is a huge boon. Also it is a unique form of play that shouldn't be diminished in this recent bout of keeping job identity with the count now at 22. Blue Mage is a weak auto-attack choice over other jobs and I don't agree with continuing to emphasize on that aspect. Auto-attack was meant to be supplemental and slid into being more and more dominant because of spells falling behind.

[Olor]

I agree with everything Rwolf said. Just cause auto-attack is our best damage now doesn't mean that should be what we strive for. That path leads to mediocrity, especially since we are a light DD job. We can't afford to give up all our utility. The only thing BLU has going for it is flexibility to adapt to any given situation.

[Damane]

I think the first step to bettering the feedback community is to stop playing triage with suggestions/feedback. Just because X job is currently worse than Y job doesn't matter regarding feedback. The development team has shown with these quick bountiful updates lately, they can push things out quicker. And even if they couldn't, we should give feedback unbiased and not based on what we think they will or will not do with it. I think that defeats the purpose in and of itself.

It's counter-productive of them to try and produce new spells to make up for large amount of spells already present in the game. Blue Mage's power is in their utility and that's what the job needs to shine again. Utility comes through diverse spell setups and choices allowing quick adaptation. Having the ability to target a monster's physical, magical, and ecosystem weaknesses while also having decent hard to resist breath-type (it's not magical) damage is a huge boon. Also it is a unique form of play that shouldn't be diminished in this recent bout of keeping job identity with the count now at 22. Blue Mage is a weak auto-attack choice over other jobs and I don't agree with continuing to emphasize on that aspect. Auto-attack was meant to be supplemental and slid into being more and more dominant because of spells falling behind.

BLU is a weak autoattack job compared to monk and NIN, but its not bad by any means compared to all the other jobs. The fact still stands that the auto-attacks will generate still way more dmg then any spells BLU has at its desposal (or any other mages) in high buff situations (capped haste and hit rate). Unless as said previously mages/Blus start "farting out nuclear bombs" out of their arse while nukeing/casting spells, that isnt gonna change ever.

I do agree on more utility from our spellroster by makeing old spells work agian, but lets face it, thats never gonna happen. utility/versatility jobs never won a spot in FFXI, its allways all about the specialists that offer the most flexibility.

[Rubicant82]

here is a thought, sense we have to "Set" our spells why not make all BLU spells instant cast, but increase the recast on them to balance.
That could be a good plan. if cast time is 7 seconds and recast time is 40 make the cast time .1 and the recast 47. :D

[Mefuki]

[B]FFXI has gigantic flaws that need nerfing if you want to balance the jobs across the board:
1. Formless strikes, it reduces the needs for nukers or magical WSs, makeing them almost redundant
2. The miriads of buffs people can get from brds and cors swaping in and out. For ally content swaping for buffs shouldnt be possible (auto loose buffs)
for PTs: BRD should have never gotten more then 2 songs.
Reason: with the potent buffing BRD has now, there is no reason to bring other jobs that can grant different buffs, or unique debuffs to help the battle (debuffing is for me reversed buffing)
3. base dmg raising after ilvl weapon introduction was flawed, reason: mnk got a 80% base dmg increase going from 99 to ilvl 119, the rest is howevering around a 50% increase AT BEST.
4. haste, its the most OP buff, and its the reason why anythign mage like will NEVER be good enough for content unless the mage starts farting nuclear bombs out of his ass while nukeing/casting any offensiv spells. The more haste melees have the more exponential their dmg goes up. There is no buff that allows that to happen for mages or jobs that cast spells...

And I agree with you on all these points.

I also think that it's not really going to help, like Rwolf said, to "play triage" with job suggestions. A lot of jobs are hurting, just last week we had an influx of feedback from users in regards to pet jobs, and this week BLU topics have resurfaced. Clearly, you already consider BLU having issues when you said, "NOT only BLU is suffering,..." and I think most of us are just trying to come up with solutions to help create a more diverse pool of jobs and roles, etc within the battle system. And I think that just because we can say that BLU doesn't need adjustments as bad as another job doesn't mean that it's fine that a number of aspects of the job are broken and need correcting.

And given what you said in point 4., you and I both know that the solution to making a more complex battle system is not to just make BLU swing his sword faster and faster.

[Rwolf]

BLU is a weak autoattack job compared to monk and NIN, but its not bad by any means compared to all the other jobs. The fact still stands that the auto-attacks will generate still way more dmg then any spells BLU has at its desposal (or any other mages) in high buff situations (capped haste and hit rate). Unless as said previously mages/Blus start "farting out nuclear bombs" out of their arse while nukeing/casting spells, that isnt gonna change ever.

I do agree on more utility from our spellroster by makeing old spells work agian, but lets face it, thats never gonna happen. utility/versatility jobs never won a spot in FFXI, its allways all about the specialists that offer the most flexibility.

I'm not disputing the fact that currently auto-attacks generate more damage than Blue Magic. That's a well known fact. However, that was not always the case especially where we didn't have these high damage weapons in each hand, while capping haste, accuracy and high critical hit rate. Other melee jobs other than Monk and Ninja, can out auto-attack Blue Mage. And if you're counting buffs traits and abilities, then you have to do the same for every other damage dealing job.


"Utility/versatility jobs never won a spot in FFXI" is a bold claim. NIN -ni wheel tactic, RDM in its prime, BRD tanking and pulling, BLU in Nyzul Isle especially concerning soulflayers, are all examples of at one point being desired utility and versatility. Even in Delve when it was alliance level, there were jobs brought for their utility and adaptability to the different bosses. I think you're taking your stance to the extreme and far out of context to prove your point.

There is nothing wrong with increasing Blue Magic to do more damage than auto attacking, even now. Blue Mage still sits at a very limited MP pool sans Mythic, on it's own. I respect your opinion, albeit negative, if you think the development team will never do it, but it is no counterpoint. It is not fact they won't change Blue Mage, it is your own opinion.

[Tennotsukai]

Well, at least we have requiescat. Oh wait, monks have formless strikes, nvm.
same applies to nukers, if you want to change it, you have to nerf formless trikes (which is imho a good thing to do)

At least we have nature's meditation, dang nvm that, 60 seconds.
because adloqium, phalanx matter so much nowadays...

Oh! We have enfeebles we can use... but those usually don't ever land. Hmm...
you mean like all those resists RDM WHM and SCH get when yours resist? If the fight allows to stick all mage debuffs, BLU debuffs work too. Those fights tough exist rarely, and mostly mages can only stick 1 TOPs 2 debuffs (not counting in dia), because everythign else insta resists on anything remotly hard. (and dont get me started on hardmission battles on D+)

Cocoon? Other jobs can sub and use.
yeah because so many melees are subbing BLU to up their defense... only for RUN would this make sense and thats pretty situational

Breath spells? Wtf is wrong with those!? Why are they so bad?
nukes on D+ Hardmode mission battlefields, wry are they so bad!!!!! because of fucking innate 50% MDT and like obscene amounts of INT the mob has!!! nuuuuuu

Okay, so most of our spells are terribad except a few that end up being worthless in high buff situations.
EVERY spell/neglectable ability you cast in high buff situations is BAD, because you sacrifice that more DPS due to lock animations etc etc. that accounts for all jobs across the board

Honestly, I don't care for the fact they are going to neglect all our spells just please give us a significant amount of new spells with reasonable costs, job traits we'll use, and a reason to use (not broken).

Thank you.


Now dont get this the wrong, I am all for fixing jobs, but your rant sounded like a crybaby that doesnt see that NOT only BLU is suffering, there is quiet a few of other jobs that suffer the same or worse. I think actually BLU has atm the better end of the stick compared to other jobs (nukers(BLM GEO), THF, DNC, RUN, Pet jobs etc).

FFXI has gigantic flaws that need nerfing if you want to balance the jobs across the board:
1. Formless strikes, it reduces the needs for nukers or magical WSs, makeing them almost redundant
2. The miriads of buffs people can get from brds and cors swaping in and out. For ally content swaping for buffs shouldnt be possible (auto loose buffs)
for PTs: BRD should have never gotten more then 2 songs.
Reason: with the potent buffing BRD has now, there is no reason to bring other jobs that can grant different buffs, or unique debuffs to help the battle (debuffing is for me reversed buffing)
3. base dmg raising after ilvl weapon introduction was flawed, reason: mnk got a 80% base dmg increase going from 99 to ilvl 119, the rest is howevering around a 50% increase AT BEST.
4. haste, its the most OP buff, and its the reason why anythign mage like will NEVER be good enough for content unless the mage starts farting nuclear bombs out of his ass while nukeing/casting any offensiv spells. The more haste melees have the more exponential their dmg goes up. There is no buff that allows that to happen for mages or jobs that cast spells...

Sorry if my over dramatic post displeased you in some way. I do not understand why you would want to make such a long reply to a little rant trying to get my point across which I see you do all the time.

For some of the reasonable statements:

I agree with nerfing FS, that and mnk's ridiculously higher dmg they get through skill.

Our enfeebles: First, Tourbillion/Barbed Crescent are broken so there's that. Also, any of our debuffs that do land on anything worthwhile almost immediately wear off (Benthic Typhoon, Bilgestorm, Auroral Drape, Demoralizing Roar, our slows, paralyzes, Infrasonics, and most our stuns after 5 times using, if at all). This would be for delve/delve2/AA normal. I understand AA difficult is not for mage's to feel comfortable. I know I did over exaggerate a little on this part. I know blue mages are never invited like other jobs to use their enfeebles. Maybe if Tourbillion actually worked we would be.

Now your other replies do not make much sense. Why are you bitching about my breath spells rant and comparing them to other spells specifically in AA. Breath spells...just suck in every way. Are you really against a breath spell fix?

I just don't understand this reply, dude...Thought you were with us in fixing blu, but evidently you weren't all there during this reply. I know most other jobs are in need of a fix'in, but these are the blu forums. We want blue mage to be successful here.

[saevel]

Also, any of our debuffs that do land on anything worthwhile almost immediately wear off (Benthic Typhoon, Bilgestorm, Auroral Drape, Demoralizing Roar, our slows, paralyzes, Infrasonics, and most our stuns after 5 times using, if at all). This would be for delve/delve2/AA normal.

I haven't done AA with BLU, but Delve 1.0 has zero problems with Bilgestorm and Typhoon. I use a hybrid acc / magic acc set for both of them, it's the same set I use for Sudden Lunge. Bilgestorm in particular use's TP to enhance it's duration so it's wise to have 200+ TP and use CA with UL to get max duration on the -25% defense / attack. I can confirm that it lasts well over a minute, I would guess around 90s on Tojil (wish I had more accurate info) and Shark, I can't remember what it was on Bee. BS is a really useful spell to open a big fight with, or to use right before piercing on Tojil for your AL GD spam. In between UL BS's I use BT which has decent damage and the defense effect lasts about a minute. Lots of BLU spells have issues, but BT and BS are both quite good.

[elqplau]

With all due respects to my blue mage brethern is rdm ever going to be worked on? The only reasin i can solo un most places is because of trusts and gear it has been along time sence rdm has been what it was

[Tennotsukai]

I haven't done AA with BLU, but Delve 1.0 has zero problems with Bilgestorm and Typhoon. I use a hybrid acc / magic acc set for both of them, it's the same set I use for Sudden Lunge. Bilgestorm in particular use's TP to enhance it's duration so it's wise to have 200+ TP and use CA with UL to get max duration on the -25% defense / attack. I can confirm that it lasts well over a minute, I would guess around 90s on Tojil (wish I had more accurate info) and Shark, I can't remember what it was on Bee. BS is a really useful spell to open a big fight with, or to use right before piercing on Tojil for your AL GD spam. In between UL BS's I use BT which has decent damage and the defense effect lasts about a minute. Lots of BLU spells have issues, but BT and BS are both quite good.

Oh yah. I was mainly speaking of AA normal; Benthic has an issue where it lasts like a second, same with paralyze. Frightful roar is actually quite decent there though. That's cool though about BS.

[Tennotsukai]

With all due respects to my blue mage brethern is rdm ever going to be worked on? The only reasin i can solo un most places is because of trusts and gear it has been along time sence rdm has been what it was

I always thought what blu can solo rdm could solo as well.

[Damane]

Sorry if my over dramatic post displeased you in some way. I do not understand why you would want to make such a long reply to a little rant trying to get my point across which I see you do all the time.

For some of the reasonable statements:

I agree with nerfing FS, that and mnk's ridiculously higher dmg they get through skill.

Our enfeebles: First, Tourbillion/Barbed Crescent are broken so there's that. Also, any of our debuffs that do land on anything worthwhile almost immediately wear off (Benthic Typhoon, Bilgestorm, Auroral Drape, Demoralizing Roar, our slows, paralyzes, Infrasonics, and most our stuns after 5 times using, if at all). This would be for delve/delve2/AA normal. I understand AA difficult is not for mage's to feel comfortable. I know I did over exaggerate a little on this part. I know blue mages are never invited like other jobs to use their enfeebles. Maybe if Tourbillion actually worked we would be.

Now your other replies do not make much sense. Why are you bitching about my breath spells rant and comparing them to other spells specifically in AA. Breath spells...just suck in every way. Are you really against a breath spell fix?

I just don't understand this reply, dude...Thought you were with us in fixing blu, but evidently you weren't all there during this reply. I know most other jobs are in need of a fix'in, but these are the blu forums. We want blue mage to be successful here.

I am with fixing BLU, but the rant kinda hit a nerve on me, BLU and SCH are 2 of my main jobs. and both jobs share the same issues. Not all debuffs being applicable, nukes/spells sucking as good damage source on anythign remotly hard (Hardmission battles D+/Delve 2.0 etc due to innate MDT or very high INT/meva of mobs). It was like you had a blind eye on the grand scheme that not only BLU is suffering as a caster.

Fact is: not all debuffs are viable in all fights, this accounts for normal debuffers too
Fact is: BLU has (dont ask me why) a very shallow M.acc equipment choice when compared to other mages. Outside of Hagondes with m.acc augments there arent many pieces left, that come even close to some artsieq pieces with the M.acc path or other m.acc pieces from mages. So this plays also largely a role why blu debuffs dont stick either. The BLU spells might be working, but if SCH and RDM cant land their debuffs reliabel with a superior choice of m.acc/enfeeb equipments, how well do you think will BLU land his debuff-spells when they have to run with 50-60 less m.acc because their gear choices are compromised? :/
The root of the problem is in current mob-meva (for the other mages) and on top for blu also on the shallow m.acc/debuff gear choices.
on top of that on any physical blu magic skill that has an additional effect, you need to gear for acc to actually hit the mob and for m.acc to stick the debuff on, so thats another turd to take lol

[elqplau]

I always thought what blu can solo rdm could solo as well. no rdm dosnt do enough damage i can still take hate from some one but i dont kill fast enough... expl. Sekret i took down in 15 mins a blue can take it in much less

[Tennotsukai]

Has anyone tried some any of our other enfeebles to see if they stick on newer/higher level content? Spells such as: Demoralizing Roar, Embalming Earth, Paralyzing Triad, Benthic Typhoon, Auroral Drape, Frightful Roar, Infrasonics, and maybe Foul Waters?

So far, I've had really good luck with Frightful Roar, Foul Waters, and maybe Embalming Earth on normal AAs but the other spells seem to wear off quite quickly. I'd like to know if they are decent in Delve, WKR, or other battlefields.

[Sixtythree]

Has anyone tried some any of our other enfeebles to see if they stick on newer/higher level content? Spells such as: Demoralizing Roar, Embalming Earth, Paralyzing Triad, Benthic Typhoon, Auroral Drape, Frightful Roar, Infrasonics, and maybe Foul Waters?

So far, I've had really good luck with Frightful Roar, Foul Waters, and maybe Embalming Earth on normal AAs but the other spells seem to wear off quite quickly. I'd like to know if they are decent in Delve, WKR, or other battlefields.

Frightful Roar is moderately reliable. Whatever code that makes this spell work, works.

Auroral Drape lasts about 45 seconds on mobs out in Marjami Ravine. Consistently, too, because I see the chat log spam from all the mobs that lose the silence and blind. I've never been able to land that on anything remotely high level. Also Cimicine Discharge was fully resisted during normal AA's, never once landed despite repeated attempts. However Filamented Hold would stick 100%, it just lasts for a total of like 1 minute (approximate guess) so you have to babysit the debuff.

I just wish we got some kind of official statement from community team or in a dev post that "THIS IS HOW BLUE MAGE WAS DESIGNED" and i'll accept the fact that debuffs are short term inaccurate mostly waste of time on anything high level spells and simply move on; just like i've come to terms with breath spells and almost anything magical on BLU where it should matter.

[Babekeke]

i've come to terms with breath spells and almost anything magical on BLU where it should matter.

Even with Anahera Saber? And what about if Tamaxchi is used in the off-hand, does the magic damage+ still apply and stack with the saber?

[Tennotsukai]

Frightful Roar is moderately reliable. Whatever code that makes this spell work, works.

Auroral Drape lasts about 45 seconds on mobs out in Marjami Ravine. Consistently, too, because I see the chat log spam from all the mobs that lose the silence and blind. I\\'ve never been able to land that on anything remotely high level. Also Cimicine Discharge was fully resisted during normal AA\\'s, never once landed despite repeated attempts. However Filamented Hold would stick 100%, it just lasts for a total of like 1 minute (approximate guess) so you have to babysit the debuff.

I just wish we got some kind of official statement from community team or in a dev post that "THIS IS HOW BLUE MAGE WAS DESIGNED" and i\\'ll accept the fact that debuffs are short term inaccurate mostly waste of time on anything high level spells and simply move on; just like i\\'ve come to terms with breath spells and almost anything magical on BLU where it should matter.

Wow, thanks for the info. Hopefully blu will receive some new spells in the next couple of months that aren't so flawed. Since rdm is getting new spells, perhaps blu spells will come after.

[Sixtythree]

Even with Anahera Saber? And what about if Tamaxchi is used in the off-hand, does the magic damage+ still apply and stack with the saber?

There's nothing practical about a spell that takes 10 seconds to cast (especially if you're in the front line), costs 200MP and does about 2000 damage. My statement is rough enough you could sand wood but you get what i'm saying. I know some magical spells can be used for magic burst and some BLU's do have some very cool builds but in practice it really just isn't practical.

The only spell I'm curious of is Wind Breath. Maybe it's another dud but it has very low MP cost and recast; one can only wonder if any use can come from it.


Wow, thanks for the info. Hopefully blu will receive some new spells in the next couple of months that aren't so flawed. Since rdm is getting new spells, perhaps blu spells will come after.

It was confirmed we'll be getting new spells :) it's in the official FFXI page!

[YosemiteYogorockBlondelle]

I was just wondering if your guys have seen or been to this forum page Here (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/39839-Blue-mage-Job-adjustments) and then back to the thread were at now yet? I was also wondering if this thread is a take-off from that thread as well?

[saevel]

There's nothing practical about a spell that takes 10 seconds to cast (especially if you're in the front line), costs 200MP and does about 2000 damage. My statement is rough enough you could sand wood but you get what i'm saying. I know some magical spells can be used for magic burst and some BLU's do have some very cool builds but in practice it really just isn't practical.

The only spell I'm curious of is Wind Breath. Maybe it's another dud but it has very low MP cost and recast; one can only wonder if any use can come from it.



It was confirmed we'll be getting new spells :) it's in the official FFXI page!

The new light based spell from eyeballs is quite nice. Same with the wind spell. They both are instant cast with high fTP and dINT x 2, though no WSC's. You pretty much stack as much MDMG as possible and blast things.

[Babekeke]

I saw a BLU the other day spamming Temp. Upheaval on multiple mobs to 'aga' them... I wondered if that was efficient too.

P.S. Retinal Glare is the light one, I assume?

[Sixtythree]

Temp. Upheaval is nice, it's not as efficient as Frypan as far as MP and certainly not as powerful as Whirl of Rage but it has the quickest recast. If you're playing around in Abyssea especially, it's a great spell.

Where can you learn Retinal Glare? One of last couple spells I don't have and not to change the subject but if anyone could ninja-sneak in an answer I would be grateful ^-^;

[dragmagi]

You get glare off those little eye mobs. They pop in moh gates, hunting grounds and in the Weald. Easiest camp is in moh gates.

[Tennotsukai]

I love Temp. Upheaval. It's perfect for cleaving mobs outside abyssea. I usually thunderbolt to temp to embalming to temp again.

[Damane]

I saw a BLU the other day spamming Temp. Upheaval on multiple mobs to 'aga' them... I wondered if that was efficient too.

P.S. Retinal Glare is the light one, I assume?

temp. upheaval has decent dmg, whisker does more, BUT temp. upheaval has such a low cast and recast time. So it works well for AoE burn.

[Babekeke]

temp. upheaval has decent dmg, whisker does more, BUT temp. upheaval has such a low cast and recast time. So it works well for AoE burn.

133MP is low!?

[saevel]

Temp. Upheaval is nice, it's not as efficient as Frypan as far as MP and certainly not as powerful as Whirl of Rage but it has the quickest recast. If you're playing around in Abyssea especially, it's a great spell.

Where can you learn Retinal Glare? One of last couple spells I don't have and not to change the subject but if anyone could ninja-sneak in an answer I would be grateful ^-^;

You need to work on your gearsets. Also you realize you just confused a magic and a physical spell. Frypan and WoR are physical spells and use a different formula then R.Glare or T.Upheaval. Those last two you need +M.DMG equipment, especially on the weapons. With the AA Sword and / or the 119 Club you can get big numbers, especially when you factor in Glare's 26MP cost and low cast/recast.

[Tennotsukai]

Looks like one of our new spells will be a lot like Temp. Upheaval. This spell, Subduction, has a low recast just like temp, so I guess SE really likes how we blu's handle numerous enemies at once. Forgot to mention it has gravity as additional added effect.

On a side note, I'm really looking forward to the two other spells we'll be receiving: Errative Flutter and Thrashing Assault. Pretty sure that Erratic Flutter will be our haste 2 and Thrashing Assault will be our best damaging spell.

Hopefully, we'll get more than just 3 spells. Just 3 do not sound like the word they used in the update notes, plethora. Perhaps, more spells will come a later update :)

[Mavrick]

I'm not sure if this is new or not, but since they were not mentioned on Bluegart I'll post them here.


Accuracy Bonus III: (Accuracy +35)
Each Tier requires 8 points towards Accuracy Bonus, so you need 24 in total.
Checked using /checkparam <me>

Attack Bonus III: (Attack+35)
Each Tier requires 8 points towards Attack Bonus, so you need 24 in total.

Magic Attack Bonus III (MAB+28)
Each Tier requires 8 points towards Magic Attack Bonus, so you need 24 in total.

Defense Bonus II (DEF+22)
Each Tier requires 8 points towards Defense Bonus, so you need 16 in total.

Evasion Bonus II (EVA+22)
Each Tier requires 8 points towards Evasion Bonus, so you need 16 in total.
Checked using /checkparam <me>


Fast Cast II
Fast cast is a strange one. Someone feel free to make corrections if I calculated this wrong.

Blue Mage starts from Fast Cast 0 (Cast Time-5%/Recast-2.5%), and can gain up to Fast Cast II. But this is silly, because it forces us to spend 24 points for Tier II, when most of the other traits only require 16 points for Tier II.

In any event I did this test using metallic body recast time.

Fast Cast 0:
Requires 8 Points towards Fast Cast
Cast Time-5% / Recast-2.5%
metallic body recast down to 58s

Fast Cast I:
Requires 16 Points towards Fast Cast
Cast Time-10% / Recast-5%
metallic body recast down to 57s

Fast Cast II:
Requires 24 Points towards Fast Cast
Cast Time -15% / Recast-7.5%
metallic body recast down to 55s

[larrymc]

For Magic Attack Bonus - why did you only list Magic Attack Bonus III - cant we achieve Magic Attack Bonus V now, or is there a hidden cap?

Cursed Sphere(4),Sound Blast(4),Eyes On Me(4),Memento Mori(4),Heat Breath(4),Reactor Cool(4),Magic Hammer(4),Dream Flower(4),Erratic Flutter(8)

Same applies for attack bonus - we should be able to achieve Attack Bonus IV?

[Mavrick]

For Magic Attack Bonus - why did you only list Magic Attack Bonus III - cant we achieve Magic Attack Bonus V now, or is there a hidden cap?

Cursed Sphere(4),Sound Blast(4),Eyes On Me(4),Memento Mori(4),Heat Breath(4),Reactor Cool(4),Magic Hammer(4),Dream Flower(4),Erratic Flutter(8)

Same applies for attack bonus - we should be able to achieve Attack Bonus IV?

Feel free to re-check them, but from what I found, the Tiers listed were the maximum tier I could achieve even when setting every single spell available for that particular trait.

IE. My attack went from 190 to 225 when setting every single spell that grants Attack Bonus and accounting for the "+STR" set bonuses. This is equivalent to Attack Bonus III even though in theory I should be getting Attack Bonus IV.

Same holds true for Magic Attack Bonus III.
Tem. Upheaval deals 562 damage nude with no spells equipped. If I equip all spells for Magic Attack Bonus V, and Account for the INT+10 from set bonuses, Tem. Upheaval deals only 719 damage (+28% = MAB III).

Accuracy Bonus Caps at Tier 3, while Evasion and Defense Bonus both cap at tier 2.

[Tennotsukai]

Feel free to re-check them, but from what I found, the Tiers listed were the maximum tier I could achieve even when setting every single spell available for that particular trait.

IE. My attack went from 190 to 225 when setting every single spell that grants Attack Bonus and accounting for the "+STR" set bonuses. This is equivalent to Attack Bonus III even though in theory I should be getting Attack Bonus IV.

Same holds true for Magic Attack Bonus III.
Tem. Upheaval deals 562 damage nude with no spells equipped. If I equip all spells for Magic Attack Bonus V, and Account for the INT+10 from set bonuses, Tem. Upheaval deals only 719 damage (+28% = MAB III).

Accuracy Bonus Caps at Tier 3, while Evasion and Defense Bonus both cap at tier 2.

Thanks for figuring that out.

[larrymc]

Feel free to re-check them, but from what I found, the Tiers listed were the maximum tier I could achieve even when setting every single spell available for that particular trait.

IE. My attack went from 190 to 225 when setting every single spell that grants Attack Bonus and accounting for the "+STR" set bonuses. This is equivalent to Attack Bonus III even though in theory I should be getting Attack Bonus IV.

Same holds true for Magic Attack Bonus III.
Tem. Upheaval deals 562 damage nude with no spells equipped. If I equip all spells for Magic Attack Bonus V, and Account for the INT+10 from set bonuses, Tem. Upheaval deals only 719 damage (+28% = MAB III).

Accuracy Bonus Caps at Tier 3, while Evasion and Defense Bonus both cap at tier 2.

Thank you, this is great information.

[Damane]

Feel free to re-check them, but from what I found, the Tiers listed were the maximum tier I could achieve even when setting every single spell available for that particular trait.

IE. My attack went from 190 to 225 when setting every single spell that grants Attack Bonus and accounting for the "+STR" set bonuses. This is equivalent to Attack Bonus III even though in theory I should be getting Attack Bonus IV.

Same holds true for Magic Attack Bonus III.
Tem. Upheaval deals 562 damage nude with no spells equipped. If I equip all spells for Magic Attack Bonus V, and Account for the INT+10 from set bonuses, Tem. Upheaval deals only 719 damage (+28% = MAB III).

Accuracy Bonus Caps at Tier 3, while Evasion and Defense Bonus both cap at tier 2.

thats kinda shitty ._., wouldd have been nice if they would have gone higher up for more situational customization, but alas still better then how it was previously

[Selindrile]

One of the core design concepts for blue magic is based around the fact that as you level up, more powerful spells will become available. Due to this, the development team would prefer to focus on adding new blue magic at the higher-level tiers rather than to adjust low-level spells. However, they are aware that there is a limited variety of single-target physical blue magic and support-type blue magic in the high-level tier so they are planning to add more, but it will take some time until they become available.

One of the core design concepts for black mage is based around the fact that as you level up, more powerful spells will become available. Due to this, they constantly spam Stone1 to deal the most efficient damage over time...(By comparing this statement to black mage, you can tell it's rather rediculous)

Also, if you intended older spells to become obsolete as newer spells are obtained, why do higher traits (the good, used ones) often still require lower level spells to be equipped to obtain the higher trait tiers?

[YosemiteYogorockBlondelle]

One of the core design concepts for black mage is based around the fact that as you level up, more powerful spells will become available. Due to this, they constantly spam Stone1 to deal the most efficient damage over time...(By comparing this statement to black mage, you can tell it's rather rediculous)

Also, if you intended older spells to become obsolete as newer spells are obtained, why do higher traits (the good, used ones) often still require lower level spells to be equipped to obtain the higher trait tiers?


Just the same if they intended for older spells to become obsolete they mize well of given blues a delete old learned spells feature for the newer spells they intend to keep on giving us instead of them just sitting there forever in the void and this much is just like: laugh out loud, you took forever to learn those older spell's at lower levels, well now it's worthless->lol. It is as they kind of have an idea where newer players could skip learning the older spells and speed level to 99 and just pick up the newer level supposedly better spells that replaced all of the useless now older spells >_<;; by taking this route in truth. Wow! Okay, yeah sure thing....

[Selindrile]

Not to mention, "One of the design concepts things about levelling a job, is unlocking new weaponskills that are much more powerful than old ones! Which is why we just buffed the crap out of all the old weaponskills." wait, what?

And yet they say this to both Blu and Bst (Who have recently asked for all jug pets to no longer be level capped, which is I think a fantastic idea) "one of the design strategies is that as you level, you get access to stronger versions of certain types of things", it's just often, and hilariously untrue.

[Kafrein]

It makes sense to me really, the 'broken' spells perhaps aren't that useful in the lower levels but they're there if you need them. Blue Mage has a vast collection of spells and the idea is that you constantly update your strategy and repertoire to suit the situation, meaning stronger attack spells and so on. It's unique compared to other mage classes in that sense, because Black Mage still has a good usage for their low level spells. I don't think that's a necessity it's just a difference between the classes. While there are some spells that I think should be fixed, ultimately I agree with Square on their explanation.

I think Blue Mage has got a lot of attention and buffs recently and it's fantastic, so I am not about to complain about it.

[Sabishii]

Can we do something about pyric bulwark? The July update says: The name of the blue magic spell Pyric Bulwark has been adjusted to Polar Bulwark. (Added on 7/15/2014)

But it hasn't (at least in the english patch updates), and it still does the same thing. The only thing they did was change the element from ice to light (which doesn't do anything).

Maybe they should change the spell so it actually IS polar bulwark, the magic nullifying spell. Nullifying one HIT of physical damage doesn't do much. If it lasted for a set period of time, I'd use it. If it was like sentinel, or rampart, I'd use it. If it was a mini-invincible I'd use it. If it nullified magic damage instead of physical damage, I'd consider using it, because magic usually hits harder than physical hits from mobs. Right now, I'd rather use bloodrake to get my HP full in one spell, than a spell that'll just nullify the next melee swing, even if I use diffusion to give it to the whole party.

[Xsilver]

Should be changed to be a Migawari effect for 30 seconds, if damage exceeds 50% of your max HP, the damage is nullified. Lasts until it wears off or an attack of that caliber hits you.

[YosemiteYogorockBlondelle]

I'm actually looking forward to newer or redone spells through newer spells and even though I forgot all i wanted to say in this one post, i'm looking forward to more AoE buff up spells that cover the party but not only your party/trust party but a few new spells that could reach the alliances if there ever formed or should i say when they are formed. Hopefully I can remember the other spells I was thinking on that could be added to edit them in my post later again. Natural Meditation spell seems to fade away rather quickly specially if you buff up and recover mp old fashioned style-{/heal} then go about your business of the battle ahead.

[Selindrile]

Right now, I'd rather use bloodrake to get my HP full in one spell, than a spell that'll just nullify the next melee swing, even if I use diffusion to give it to the whole party.

I haven't used Bloodrake since they buffed Sanguine Blade (which I'm grateful for), though double darkness is a neat idea, it's rarely useful.

You know what's never useful though, Bulwark, perhaps if they changed it to a Migawari type effect.

[Worldslost]

First time posting in this forum haven't poured over the thread but my vote is for pollen to be adjusted. It could be a wonderful tool. I think OP mentioned Metallic Body in the same sense. Just those 2 spells would make blu a lot better in the solo dept. The self cure just added cost too much to set in the current 20/70 spell set system,

[Tennotsukai]

Just coming back from a few months break. I notice that Blu's Tourbillion and Barbed Crescent additional effects still do not work on most mobs. Right now, I'm using these spells on toads and pugils in Marjami Ravine, and I'm not getting the additional effects to land. Any idea how to fix this?

[YosemiteYogorockBlondelle]

Just coming back from a few months break. I notice that Blu's Tourbillon and Barbed Crescent additional effects still do not work on most mobs. Right now, I'm using these spells on toads and pugils in Marjami Ravine, and I'm not getting the additional effects to land. Any idea how to fix this?

Well maybe job points for the accuracy of additional effects might fix the issue or give a touch to it a bit maybe? Let me know as i'm adding 2 points to that Blu Job Point category and same to more blu points for spell's.

[dasva]

Well maybe job points for the accuracy of additional effects might fix the issue or give a touch to it a bit maybe? Let me know as i'm adding 2 points to that Blu Job Point category and same to more blu points for spell's.

It's highly doubtful. It's not a matter of them being slightly less accurate so much as they seem to be capped at a very low land rate so that even on too weak mobs they often wont land

[saevel]

It's not related to magic accuracy at all, it's proc rate. Both of those spells do physical damage with a chance of additional effect happening. SE has either purposely or by glitch made the proc rate stupidly low on these. I tested this on spiders in ToAU, the ones right outside in the thickets. As a 99 with 119 gear our magic acc is so far above the target that it's would be statistically impossible to have three to four in a row do complete resists. Instead it simply never proced and thus never did a MACC/MEVD check. Use Bilgestorm instead, -25% defense / attack / -10 acc and lasts for about 90 seconds. Torb IMHO is really just for SCing and BC is similiar to Mortal Ray, just there to make a job trait.

[Tennotsukai]

I think it would be nice to be able to proc a 33% def down on enemy bosses.

[YosemiteYogorockBlondelle]

It's not related to magic accuracy at all, it's proc rate. Both of those spells do physical damage with a chance of additional effect happening. SE has either purposely or by glitch made the proc rate stupidly low on these. I tested this on spiders in ToAU, the ones right outside in the thickets. As a 99 with 119 gear our magic acc is so far above the target that it's would be statistically impossible to have three to four in a row do complete resists. Instead it simply never processed and thus never did a MACC/MEVD check. Use Bilgestorm instead, -25% defense / attack / -10 acc and lasts for about 90 seconds. Torb IMHO is really just for SCing and BC is similar to Mortal Ray, just there to make a job trait.

What does Torb IMHO mean? I was wondering if you think if they added a blu processing cap up category or an if they added a category that increases the successful processing rate, of that would fix it? Knowing how the developers tend to find and implement things into the game in a round about sort of way...

[dasva]

It's not related to magic accuracy at all, it's proc rate. Both of those spells do physical damage with a chance of additional effect happening. SE has either purposely or by glitch made the proc rate stupidly low on these. I tested this on spiders in ToAU, the ones right outside in the thickets. As a 99 with 119 gear our magic acc is so far above the target that it's would be statistically impossible to have three to four in a row do complete resists. Instead it simply never proced and thus never did a MACC/MEVD check. Use Bilgestorm instead, -25% defense / attack / -10 acc and lasts for about 90 seconds. Torb IMHO is really just for SCing and BC is similiar to Mortal Ray, just there to make a job trait.

Not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you trying to say that this spell only has an additional effect some of the time and then only if it does proc it still has to do the normal resist checks? Because I can't think of any other spells or ws in the game that I can think of like that nor a way to test if that was the case other than doing enough casts to get a rather solid land rate and see if it for certain goes below the 5% floor

As far as impossible not necessarily. Even now you'd probably get a lot of resist trying to cast sleep on say an imp but it is possible to land it. Meva/macc varies by mob and spell, effect, debuff and/or element. They theoretically could have just attached something like a -10,000 macc to the spell to all mobs.

[saevel]

Not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you trying to say that this spell only has an additional effect some of the time and then only if it does proc it still has to do the normal resist checks? Because I can't think of any other spells or ws in the game that I can think of like that nor a way to test if that was the case other than doing enough casts to get a rather solid land rate and see if it for certain goes below the 5% floor

As far as impossible not necessarily. Even now you'd probably get a lot of resist trying to cast sleep on say an imp but it is possible to land it. Meva/macc varies by mob and spell, effect, debuff and/or element. They theoretically could have just attached something like a -10,000 macc to the spell to all mobs.

STOP

Blue spells are not magic like Black / White, they are TP moves and function using the same rules. Torb and BC are physical weapon skills like Tachi: Gekko / ect. They do damage but have a chance of procing an additional effect. With some TP moves that chance is damn near 100% while others is really low (Metatron Torment / Tachi: Agehia). Macc / MEvasion checks are only done AFTER the
effect procs, if the effect doesn't proc then no MACC/MEVD check happens.

MAcc/MEvd is really easy to understand, it's a direct comparison of your M.Acc minus the target M.Evasion with the result being the percentage chance of it happening. With magic there are multiple resist stages, typically two to four. If the first stage fails then it will check again for half resist, and then quarter and so on until there is no more stages to check. As a iLevel 119 player, our magic accuracy should be 600~700+ and a level 52 monster will be about 150 magic evasion. That's such a large difference that your going to have capped land rates no matter what. Yet testing 10+ and only one landed, but landed for a very long time. The chances of a capped magic accuracy missing twice is 2.5%. The chances of it missing twice in a row for five or more monsters is 0.000000000009765625%. That is in the realm of being so improbable as to be considered impossible, and for it to happen on multiple people adds even more decimal places. Now if the additional effect has a 10% or less proc rate, then those capped magic acc checks never happen on the hits that don't proc.

Now stop thinking it's like Thunder, Gravity, Slow or Frightful Roar.

[Byrth]

It's all explained in this handy-dandy guide to additional effects:
http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Additional_Effect

[dasva]

STOP

Blue spells are not magic like Black / White, they are TP moves and function using the same rules. Torb and BC are physical weapon skills like Tachi: Gekko / ect. They do damage but have a chance of procing an additional effect. With some TP moves that chance is damn near 100% while others is really low (Metatron Torment / Tachi: Agehia). Macc / MEvasion checks are only done AFTER the
effect procs, if the effect doesn't proc then no MACC/MEVD check happens.

MAcc/MEvd is really easy to understand, it's a direct comparison of your M.Acc minus the target M.Evasion with the result being the percentage chance of it happening. With magic there are multiple resist stages, typically two to four. If the first stage fails then it will check again for half resist, and then quarter and so on until there is no more stages to check. As a iLevel 119 player, our magic accuracy should be 600~700+ and a level 52 monster will be about 150 magic evasion. That's such a large difference that your going to have capped land rates no matter what. Yet testing 10+ and only one landed, but landed for a very long time. The chances of a capped magic accuracy missing twice is 2.5%. The chances of it missing twice in a row for five or more monsters is 0.000000000009765625%. That is in the realm of being so improbable as to be considered impossible, and for it to happen on multiple people adds even more decimal places. Now if the additional effect has a 10% or less proc rate, then those capped magic acc checks never happen on the hits that don't proc.

Now stop thinking it's like Thunder, Gravity, Slow or Frightful Roar.

Stop right there I know exactly how magic hit rate and proc rateworks. If you had thoroughly read what you are trying to argue with you'd have realized that your reasoning of why this must be the work of proc rate doesn't actually answer my questioning of whether that is actually been tested to be the case nor contradict the explanation I gave of why it might not actually be that.

I specifically mentioned spell AND ws. I know that's how normal additional effects work but can you name a ws that has been proven to work like that? Also you completely glare over me mentioning the fact that there macc checks aren't a simple your macc vs the mobs meva but takes into account things specific to the spell vs the mob (which btw is the reason why SE has repeatedly said they don't want to add macc into /checkparam because it's somewhat dependent on specific element and debuff type that further vary depending on the mob cast on) and continue to insist you must be capped magic hit rate. Unless there is some testing that shows conclusively this is definitely below floored land rate you don't know that isn't just a case of insane meva to that particular spell/effect. And the odds of it missing 10 times in a row at floor hit rates assuming no half or higher resist states is almost 60%. With just 2 resist states (which is most common for debuffs) floor hit rate would lead you to 10% chance total to land the effect which lines up fairly well with your 1/10 thing. For example like I mentioned before imps have a high resistance to dark in general like dark based sleeps. iirc it was tested to be about +120ish meva to dark sleep. Which is fairly easy to overcome now but is just an example of how different values can be. And if they can do that what's to say they didn't just give some -10,000?

There is also another possibility. It could be that this spell has an additional check after meva/macc that lowers it's hit rate. An example of this would be
It also could be that they flat out sleeping skeletons. Even a 119 rdm with elemental seal against lvl 10 skeletons will miss sleep 100% of the time under normal circumstances despite it not having the completely immune message. The exceptions to this are immunobreak which the limited testing I've done shows it seems to add some hitrate back depending on level and stymie which my even more limited testing seems to indict that it more or less just forces the effect into the next resist state.

Note in case you are thinking def down is def down why don't all of them work this horribly I'd like to point out Jettatura is resists a lot and even when you land it it wears off almost immediately while Absolute Terror lands easy.

Now if there has been testing on ws/blu spell additional effects like that to prove that then fine guess it definitely isn't. I just have never heard of such testing


Regardless of the exact mechanism that is being employed to cause these to not land even on really easy stuff it needs to be fixed. And given they work on the test server it's clear they can be


Also not particularly necessary to the conversation but why do you keep putting a "D" in the abbreviation for magic evasion? Also typically outside of flash/stun (which have an unknown number) debuffs just have 2 resist states. Usually just nukes that have more

[Tennotsukai]

In other words, let's get these spells fixed.