Moderating Rate of Exp Gain

[Tristian]

I was hoping that the developers could address a problem that my linkshell and I have been having with game content. Because the rate of experience point gain is so fast, it is super difficult to progress through the game while maintaining some degree of challenge. Specifically, I am referring to content that pertains to pre-level 75 adventures.

For example, my linkshell and I (13 of us total) attempted to do the *Appointment to Jeuno* mission (San D’oria Mission 3-3). We started level-sync’d at 25 on the bottom of Delkfutt’s Tower. We fought our way to the top, floor by floor, to obtain the Delkfutt Key from Porphyrion. By the time we reached the top, we were sync’d at level 31. Instead of the mobs becoming tougher as we ascended the tower, they actually became weaker :(. We were looking forward to the Porphyrion fight, but he ended up being defeated with just the first two-step renkei we performed (Liquefaction > Fusion). From what we've been told, in previous years, you would fight the same number of mobs and still reach the top of the tower with Porphyrion being at least Very Tough in rating.

This was frustrating for all of us for two reasons:
1) We cannot go back to level 25 on these jobs unless we have someone to sync to and
2) The rate of exp gain was not something we could regulate without outside help (having a higher level job in party just to prevent us from getting experience points).

We have come up with two suggestions that could contribute to solving this. In both cases, we are asking for the option to choose how we can play the game. We do not wish to infringe on other players’ enjoyment of the game.


1) Perhaps you could have a mode to switch to so that experience points are converted into some other currency. For example, maybe after switching to this mode (much like Merit Points options), all of the exp you receive can be converted directly into Conquest Points. That way, the experience points are not lost, but you are able to stay at a given level long enough to enjoy the challenges of missions of all types (Nation, Rotzi, and CoP).



2) Perhaps you could allow us to set our own level cap in a zone or region. This way, much like the way Chains of Promathia areas used to be level capped, we could still gain experience points and level, but, unlike level sync, we would remain at a set level until we left the zone. Again, the problem with level sync is that even if you find a player to sync to, that player still gains exp very rapidly and eventually making all mobs less challenging for the party.

Keep in mind that we do understand that there is plenty of high level content that is challenging, and that nowadays, it is fairly easy to level to 99 very quickly. However, we are eager to enjoy the content at lower levels (as well as becoming more proficient at our jobs) before progressing to the content at higher levels.

Our linkshell was put together in the hopes of focusing on teamwork development and that is how we have been approaching the game. We understand that not everyone plays FFXI for these reasons and this is why we are asking that you simply provide all players another option to how one can play the game.

[Lithera]

Technically that mission boosted you to be able to survive rank 4 a little better and got you to a level above what the cap was for the 1st three promys. Also now if anyone wants to unlock an advanced job they are able to do that and many of those are challenging in the 30s. Porphyrion was not the issue for most groups around that level gap if you had even an ok group. It was agro from the rest of the room while fighting him.

If this does get put in then hopefully any newer players will see it as an incentive to go slower. Also I do hope you guys do stick it out with this. It does get harder though the further into the stories and the quickness of level gain does slow down. You just happen to be at a point in leveling where even in the old days it was quick to go through them if you had a good group at a nice spot.

[Draylo]

I actually felt the same way, if I was a new player I would hate how you can one shot all the missions NMs. Makes no sense and takes the feel out of it.

[Karbuncle]

Could add a Exp block option or Item that prevents you from gaining exp from combat.

I mean it'd be a very niche item or Option, but I mean, they added something similar in Bravely Default (turning off encounters) and such and it worked out great to be able to control how fast/slow you exp'd.

[Ranmikel]

Personally, I'd agree with a way to stop experience point gain as an option and/or creating a level cap for your team once you've achieved or surpassed that level (but didn't gain exp according to your actual level). I don't think it would break the game one way or another, but it would enhance the ability to work with newer or less experienced players without having to create another character.

Say, if I wanted to be a WHM for people new to the game, but didn't want to be able to cast with my full store MP thereby exhibiting MP management for other mages or helping the tanks learn hate control (by casting on a similar level and at a similar rate of a WHM closer to their level), I'd be able to adjust my level to suit theirs. Otherwise, it'd be like having a overleveled WHM who could just unleash a curing spell at anytime to adjust for any mistakes made.

Like Carbuncle said and Tristan somewhat suggested, Bravely Default allowed for a couple of different ways to stop EXP gain to enhance the gaming experience. You could simply turn off EXP gain or you could equip an item that converted experience points to pq (gil). You could also turn off random mob encounters, but I think that would potentially take away from the game itself here.

[Peregrin]

Dude, your LS sounds awesome.

[Capice]

Tristian, I think you make an excellent point. Offering some sort of optional level cap for the lvl 50 and under fights (ie. Promy missions, Minotaur fight, and Mammet fight) would be an excellent addition. Part of the excitement and challenge of the game at lower levels is mastering those fights, and I was fortunate to be able to enjoy that challenge before level caps were removed. I would really like to be able to take a new team through these battles with the challenge of a level cap in place. It makes for a stronger team and truly tests skills such as hate management, mp management, renkei formation, and team cohesiveness in creating battle strategy. Being a player that admires team-concept play, I appreciate the difficulty of keeping a group in close proximity on level and the challenges that current exp gain poses. I hope the developers read this and give strong consideration to your request. I would fully support it! /cheers

[Shadax]

I think the main problem with optional level caps anywhere would be congestion in lower level areas where you could one-shot things to 99. A solution could be to make it so you can't set a cap below a certain level (20?) or make it so you can only cap your level in certain dungeons.

Optional level caps in battlefields would be fine and could be potentially great if they offered meaningful bonus rewards for beating it capped... kind of like the difficulty options on modern battlefields.

And yeah, I kind of want to join your LS. :P

[bungiefanNA]

You did have an option for moderating EXP gain. Calling for help makes the mobs you want to fight but not gain EXP from drop no loot and no EXP. Instead of gaining levels, you could have called for help on every monster on the way to the NM, remaining at the level cap all the way up, while the mobs became higher level.

But yes, once you have leveled, you can't easily go back. It would make sense to have some sort of self-capping ability as an option though. Level Sync has kind of been outgrown, with so many people having maxed out jobs now.

[Enyaw]

If this does go down, I really hope the optional level caps could be set in any area, including mission battle zones and NM fights. And I’m all for making it a CAP instead of a SYNC. Just like Tristian said, the sync keeps migrating up as everyone gains exp pts, so the challenge lessens the longer you play. Nothing worse than having your crew psyched for a battle and the mob’s dead in 2 seconds. Such a letdown. :p


Besides, if it’s optional, it’s not hurting anyone. If you need to get on and one-shot some mobs to blow off steam, you can still go for it! :D

[darkstahr]

The idea of options in xp gain is nothing new to FFXI. Even in Aht Urghan, one can trade imperial standing points (earned during Besieged) for imperial currency. This would be a great way to enable players to trade experience points for other items. Only after lvl 75 can the Merit point system be used. It would make sense to offer lower level players some sort of option as well. Besides, it’s hard to cap skills with rapid xp gain, so having this trade-off would be better for that too.

[Alekzandar]

When I first started playing back in April 2004, the thrill of accomplishing missions and quests at their level caps meant our LS had to be on top of their game. We had to know when to use an ability, when to use an item, when to engage and when to back away. I remember doing the Mammet fight when there was a level cap to it. Hard as heck and something to brag about when you beat it, the first attempt, with your linkshell. Now, people just walk in and one-shot the 3 mobs. Done. Not exactly the right of passage it used to be. It makes the victory hollow and shallow. I feel it’s worth re-instating the former level caps as an option to any team that wishes to utilize it, having the challenge in place for those that want the challenge. These fights were created to be serious milestones in the game that players would talk about long after they won or lost. Let’s provide that experience to the current group of players, if they so choose to accept it. Let them earn their titles.

[Byrth]

CFH reduces xp gained to zero. Just CFH every other monster if you want to keep the xp/kill down.

[Shadax]

I got really mad when I learned they were lifting the level cap on CoP content. Like Alek says above, beating CoP was a right of passage in a lot of ways. And then going back and sharing your expertise to get the win for other people was even more rewarding than winning it yourself. I really do miss that sense of camaraderie that came with these challenges, but alas, the game has moved on, I suppose.

Of course, if you'd have told me nine years ago that I'd be longing for the old level-capped CoP missions, I'd have laughed in your face. (Damn you, Snoll Tzar!)

[Demonjustin]

Allowing you to set an optional cap to content like that would be nice. Going back to the days of it being forced would be a disaster, just as leaving it as it was would've been. Saying it was a right of passage isn't wrong, but to think it could remain the way it was forever would be. Eventually too many players had beaten it, the amount looking to beat it had went down, and it was no longer content that could reasonably be completed due to lack of people to do it. An optional route is the best due to it allowing those who want it to have it while also letting those who don't to progress without it being necessary, that way no true unsurpassable roadblocks present themselves in the wake of a shrinking player base and lack of people needing to still complete the content.

[Lex222]

I had heard that the level caps were removed in Promy, so I went in to try it. The level caps ARE removed, but the lvl cap symbol still shows up on the status bar. Because of that, you CAN’T level sync on those fights. It’s like the level cap was removed, but not all of the pieces that go with it. Square should put the option back in. Seems like the programming is still mostly there anyway.

[Lithera]

If you go and look at the cap symbol though it should read different than when it was an actual cap. At least that is what I remember, but that was a few years back

[Marada]

For Missions like that they should just put a similar code that they have for Assaults. You get to choose whether you go in at a certain level, 75 or uncapped for assaults so why not do it for all the other missions?

[Rexaliya]

The suggestions Tristan has made for xp management are good ones. It would enable players more control over the level of challenge they wish to take on in game.

I've seen several posts above that suggest his group use the "Call for help" feature, and I've tried that in the past and would STRONGLY advise against it. My group of three used "Call for help" to avoid XP gain, and it was a hot mess. Very kind people kept stopping to help us, some losing their chocos, and we had to keep explaining that we didn't really need help. We just didn't want to gain XP, but we did want to cap a handful of our combat skills. We tried multiple areas to avoid the player population, but in the end, we spent a ton of extra time explaining that we didn't really need help when high level players would still show up and come in and one-shot the mob we were skilling up on. We felt bad for bothering so many people who just happened to be in the area.

Call for Help was clearly never intended to be an XP management tool, and if used that way, be ready to tick off a lot of people and spend most of your time in /tell explaining to other players what you're really doing.

Another side note on "call for help", once you use it, the AoE of the mob you're fighting will affect other players in your area, whether they've engaged the mob or not.

Again, for all of the good people who do actually try to come to the aid of adventurers in need, "Call for Help" is not the right tool to use for XP management.

I think Tristan's suggestions for a change in the game programming are very welcome as a solution to his group's XP management problem.

[Blah]

Looking back, this optional cap probably would have solved the issue much better than completely removing it way back when, making things much more optional is a better way to go really to balancing out the game. Not that I want the population to drop but if it did for both Japanese and NA EU they would again run into a lot of "I can't complete X because no1 is around" and again have to adjust which would more than likely be unnecessary if they did this and optionized everything else.

[ISLANDWAHINE1107]

I like Tristian’s viewpoint, and I appreciate the idea that some players value repeating the same battle in order to learn from it. There’s a great deal of honor in that idea. Often players complete Promyvion or another battle to move on as quickly as possible. I've played with my fair share of players that are not focused on HOW they win, just that they win. To repeat a battle for the ideal of perfecting battle is noteworthy, imho.
On a side note, I actually caught a glimpse of Tristian’s team playing and watched a video of them. He mentioned they had a few videos up and I googled 'Phoenix Valorians' just to check them out. From the looks of it, teamwork is definitely their mission. It was refreshing to see that in newer ffxi players. It would be nice to see their work supported through options for exp gain or optional level caps.

[Ozzwin]

I like the ideas Tristan posted. It would be nice to be able to party with anyone and not worry about what level everyone is or having to move locations when mobs got too easy. It also lets you practice on a particular mob type, like an element, without having to worry about how long you can use the same mobs. I would really like the idea of choosing some other reward than XP or being able to trade it in for stuff like Darkstahr said. I like being able to trade my conquest points for equipment and items. And I think it needs reiterated that this should be an option. Players have a huge diversity in playing styles. Some like becoming power houses. Some like collecting all the items. Some just like level grinding (I can be guilty of this). There should be options to allow control for all playing styles.

[Blah]

going to bump this to see if we can get a yah or nah. They could I think easily do away with level sync if they found a way to get this to work, and then maybe optionize other stuff too.

[oliveira]

Just to tell a tale of my own on this subject.

The first time I did the mission the OP talks about we organized a huge shout with players ranging from level 20 to 35. From shouting to finish the whole process took more than 12 hours.

It took us about nine hours to climb the tower and finish the mission. It was one of the most memorable moments on my FFXI career.

Other event that did close to it was Ifrit's cauldron Zilart mission. We were TWO ALIANCES and we wiped to Tyrannic Tunnok (giant scorpion HNM). Great times (2004/2005) which won't come back ever.

I feel your pain.

[Thralleon]

I really like the idea of optional level caps, and was thinking more about how this would work. For areas that do not involve going to a special location (just regular zones), the level cap option could be added to the options available in the field manuals/grounds tomes in each zone. Adventurers already know where they are, and it would be an easy place for players to find the option and access it.

For areas like the Promyvion zones or special fights that involve zoning into an area with a key item or with a quest/mission flagged, the option could be added to the regular dialog that’s part of zoning in. For example, in Promyvion, waaaaaaaay back in the days, you used to have to clear your memories of the last Promy before you could start the next one. There was a Large Apparatus in the Hall of Transference that allowed you to do this, iirc. That process has since been removed, but the level cap option could be added using the large apparatus in each crag since they are still there.

Again, the level caps could also just be added as an option in the dialog box upon entering the zone. Overall, the level cap option could be incorporated in another pre-existing “structure” that people are familiar with. That way, they could find it easily to use for this purpose.

In a last example, the San d’Orian Mission 1-3 (Save the Children), when you click the door to enter, you get a dialog box anyway. The last option on the dialog box could be the optional level cap. Just some ideas I wanted to throw out there. I hope this gets added!

[Byrth]

I'd support people having the option to level sync themselves to an arbitrary level instead of a party member's level, but I think that implementing a system specifically for missions is a waste of time. Think of how many times people did Assaults on anything other than the "Uncapped" setting.

[Powder]

I had seen Tristian’s group, too. I watched them complete Bastok Eco-Warrior with only 6 members and no higher level help. I’m probably showing my FFXI age by bringing that up (people rarely do Eco Warrior nowadays), but it was impressive to watch them and I see now how they were able to do it (thanks for the video find posted by ISLANDWAHINE1107).


Seeing that video took me back to when I first started playing in 2005. I had a really close group of 8 friends. My best memories were the ones where we spent ample time planning for a challenge, encountered that same challenge…and all hell broke loose during said challenge. Everyone being warned about Draw-in, but still panicking when it actually happened; then the PLD forgetting to unlock and turn away from Mortal Ray; and then everyone else just standing there, mid-battle, and watching him while he sipped holy waters like Dasani…DUDE, you gotta chug it!



We scraped through CoP together, and it wasn’t always pretty, but it was earned…together. That one CoP experience was enough to keep us friends for 4 full years after that before people started leaving the game.



The reason I’m taking time to post my support for the OP, is that even now (9 years later) I remember more details about the challenging fights than I do about the rewards we obtained from conquering them. I would hate to find out that Tristian’s group is being robbed of those experiences. I do not think it’s fair that they should have to wait until level 99 to get the same degree of challenges that older players such as myself experienced at level 30 back in the days.



If optional level caps can help experience challenges together (in any zone/area), then I say why the hell not. If it’s optional, I don’t see why anyone who doesn’t want to play that way should care. But for those that do want to play that way, it is my personal belief that they will maximize a magnificent aspect of this game: the shared experience.

[mdjohns23]

I’m a n00b. But, I’m totally cool with it because I am lucky enough to be part of Project VALOR. The way Brenin has it setup, we can play the game casually and are never online just sitting around waiting for things to happen. I can work it into my schedule and whenever I’m scheduled for a session, I look forward to it because I’ll be with a cool group of friends, and Bren has a way of making typical game activities both challenging and teambuilding. *whispers*—he had us drink poison during an exp session!

I was with him and my teammates on that mission in the tower and I can’t explain the letdown once we reached the top. What’s worse, everyone outside the LS would tell us that we had to wait until level 99 for team challenges. We’re still just level 30 and lower v.v. Does that mean that everything before level 99 is just meant to be rocketed through by any means necessary? I don't believe so.


What I don’t understand is how the developers do such a great job of giving you so many options to play the game (you can choco, hp teleport, or run to a destination), but when it comes to the actual storyline and missions, we’re at the mercy of the rate we gain experience points. For those that wish to take advantage of it, I think optional level caps can make us better all-around players.

[Youby]

Watched the video and it also had me deep in nostalgia. I remember starting out and winning some of those tough fights with the same group (sometimes different group) of friends. I remember feeling like we could take down anything if everyone did their jobs right. Unfortunately for Tristian and the like, the reality is that style of play isn’t nearly as popular as it used to be. We have a different type of player nowadays. It’s not a bad thing, really. Just different.

I think the video that was posted exhibits it perfectly. If you notice at the end of the fight, the record for that fight was 1 min and 17 seconds. I’m taking a wild guess here and assuming that was not done with 2 players that were at level 19 and lower >_>. On the other hand, there was Semita’s group which defeated the dragon at level 19 and lower, but it took 7 mins and 17 seconds (the actual fight looked like it lasted a little over 2.5 mins). Maybe the record holders were short on time and needed that mission completed to get to another step in the game. Regardless, I would wager that Semita’s group probably got more out of that fight because of the effort and teamwork it took to win. I could be wrong, but that would be my bet after watching the video.

Given that they are only asking for an OPTIONAL level cap, I would totally support the OP’s suggestions and am glad to know that there are players like this group still out there :) Cheers.

[Blah]

All right if you don't want to go thru the trouble of making optional caps how about maybe just doing like the AA fights and making it VE, E, N, D & VD? At least that should be doable since it's already in the game.

[darkstahr]

Just to tell a tale of my own on this subject.

The first time I did the mission the OP talks about we organized a huge shout with players ranging from level 20 to 35. From shouting to finish the whole process took more than 12 hours.

It took us about nine hours to climb the tower and finish the mission. It was one of the most memorable moments on my FFXI career.

Other event that did close to it was Ifrit's cauldron Zilart mission. We were TWO ALIANCES and we wiped to Tyrannic Tunnok (giant scorpion HNM). Great times (2004/2005) which won't come back ever.

I feel your pain.

Sounds really epic and it would be awesome to have the option to do that! As someone who is fairly new to FFXI, it is sad to think I missed out on this type of play!

[elqplau]

The suggestions Tristan has made for xp management are good ones. It would enable players more control over the level of challenge they wish to take on in game.

I've seen several posts above that suggest his group use the "Call for help" feature, and I've tried that in the past and would STRONGLY advise against it. My group of three used "Call for help" to avoid XP gain, and it was a hot mess. Very kind people kept stopping to help us, some losing their chocos, and we had to keep explaining that we didn't really need help. We just didn't want to gain XP, but we did want to cap a handful of our combat skills. We tried multiple areas to avoid the player population, but in the end, we spent a ton of extra time explaining that we didn't really need help when high level players would still show up and come in and one-shot the mob we were skilling up on. We felt bad for bothering so many people who just happened to be in the area.

Call for Help was clearly never intended to be an XP management tool, and if used that way, be ready to tick off a lot of people and spend most of your time in /tell explaining to other players what you're really doing.

Another side note on "call for help", once you use it, the AoE of the mob you're fighting will affect other players in your area, whether they've engaged the mob or not.

Again, for all of the good people who do actually try to come to the aid of adventurers in need, "Call for Help" is not the right tool to use for XP management.

I think Tristan's suggestions for a change in the game programming are very welcome as a solution to his group's XP management problem.
I agee i started pree pld and CFH meant help me im going to die lol ....id have been the first to jump from a choco(if i could afford one) and offer my blade or healing...i still do so

[Ozzwin]

I have to say that the idea of taking on challenges with other fans of the Final Fantasy genre was what lured me to this game and kept me playing it for so long. Challenges does not mean running through a nation mission area and having nothing agro you. Challenges also does not mean one-shotting a nation mission boss just to complete the mission. :/ Level capped missions were perfect for challenges and they were at all levels of the game! But now, it doesn’t seem right that I have to wait until level 99 to enjoy what used to be a defining characteristic of this game. I don’t want my love of the game (and the friendships I form in it) to die just because I don’t have the option to challenge myself with a group of friends. Please, please give the OP’s request some serious consideration!!

[Capice]

Level capped missions were perfect for challenges and they were at all levels of the game! But now, it doesn’t seem right that I have to wait until level 99 to enjoy what used to be a defining characteristic of this game.

There have been a lot of level capped fights, quests, and missions that I’ve gotten to do in FFXI. I found them challenging and fun. For the most part, they weren't easy wins, but they were meaningful ones, and I remember those fights. Whether it was the awesome strategy we came up with or the groups that I went into battle with. I think the OP is asking for that same challenging quality, but just on a broader scale. A zone under an optional level cap (instead of just a single battle/boss fight) opens up endless possibilities for people to come together by working together :D :cool: ;)

I am totally in support of optional level caps, and I encourage others to share their stories of level capped fights they enjoyed. Maybe S/E will show the OP request some love ;)

[mckenzie]

In my first social linkshell, we started a group to do CoP content as we leveled new jobs, epic fights scraping by and clearing by the skin of our teeth. People leveling those jobs became masters of them as opposed to nowadays burning a job to 99 and then figuring out how your job abilities worked. I got my maats cap back in the day but i still had level capped gear on a mule which i could get to help people with fights. One of my favorites was the mission 2 dragon and eye. After buffing, I'd time myself to see if I could get them killed before the person I was helping got out of cutscene.

Optional caps are a great idea in the vein of level syncing. One possible means of achieving this would be to give the option of 5 level incriments starting at 10 or 20. Ideally setting any obscure level would be great in my opinion, but i'm not sure if that's feasable.

I'd also love the suggestion of being able to earn other points in places of xp while capped. Perhaps people might be interested in rebuilding Imperial standing if they were able to cap at 75, and while under sanction, xp gains were converted 100% into Imperial standing. While in normal areas, under signet, you'd get conquest points, and sigil in the past would yield allied notes.

I do however think that it's too much to expect increased or additional drops based on level capping. Part of level capping yourself is your own chosen restriction and in most cases the experience and enjoyment are the only rewards needed. Don't forget that if you crave rewards, the new high tier battlefields are putting out new gear which really shines and are definitely worth doing. Multiple difficulty settings makes these new fights accessable, even by people who are not geared well.

One thing I really have to encourage is for people who are looking for adventure to get everything there is to offer from the old content, but keep moving. New content has been flowing steadily from the devs lately, the quality of life adjustments are making the game more playable than it ever was in the past. THE best place to look for adventure and team building is the new content. The same thrill that you remember from climbing delkfutts tower can now be found by fighting your way through colonization reives from town to reach a wildskeeper reive and taking a single alliance in to fight it. Not so long ago, I went into colkhab with 5 friends. 1 party, didn't shout, just told linkshell. We went in and fought bee learning it's moves, the nuances and really practicing our roles for fighting it on different jobs. The content changes, the day changes, the challenge moves. It's up to us to find it.

[Youby]

I do however think that it's too much to expect increased or additional drops based on level capping. Part of level capping yourself is your own chosen restriction and in most cases the experience and enjoyment are the only rewards needed. Don't forget that if you crave rewards, the new high tier battlefields are putting out new gear which really shines and are definitely worth doing. Multiple difficulty settings makes these new fights accessable, even by people who are not geared well.

I think that is what is so fantastic about the OP's motivation behind the post. He did not ask to be rewarded for optional level cap. It is a unique request (at least in my experiences of the game) because it is a request for assistance to learn HOW to become a better player (in a group setting) BEFORE reaching level 99. Unless I read it incorrectly, that is the reward they are looking for.

The more and more I hear about this Phoenix Valorian group, the more and more curious I get. From what I can gather (largely thanks to ISLANDWAHINE1107 video find from earlier), they have successfully completed the following:


West Ronfaure Garrison - in a full alliance; with no subjobs; with no advanced jobs
Defeated Hundredwall - with jobs at only 17-19 (from what I could tell); with just 8 members; with no advanced jobs; with 4 consecutive renkei and a magic burst at the end
San D'oria Mission 2-3 Black Dragon fight - with no job higher than 19; 5 consecutive skillchains
All 3 Eco-Warrior Quests - with no more than 8 party members; with no high level assistance; with no advanced jobs
San D'oria Mission 3-3 Appointment to Jeuno - with the intentions of doing the entire climb at level 25; defeated Porphyrion, but complained that he only lasted 2 consecutive skillchains :confused:
Made the most adorable 'awwwww'-n00bie video (Neo Mini-Project??) about their experience as a group :rolleyes:


Not brag-worthy achievements in the slightest, but certainly not meant to be overlooked, either. Promyvion can sort out how good/bad this group is but only provided they're able to fight monsters in the zone (including bosses) at original intended level caps.

For anyone reading this and is part of the group that Tristian is talking about, could you give me a rough timetable of when you plan on starting Chains of Promathia missions? If it's ok, I would like to keep tabs on your progress (or lack of) :eek:

[Sandmaste]

It wouldn't hurt to have the level cap for mission BC's, and even some mission area's. The optional reward could be Sparks of Eminence, and that would also allow all the people who completed those missions back in the day to tick off those Records as well.

Otherwise, as fun as it seems, there were some parts of CoP that did take up a lot of play time, and were amazingly challenging.

When it comes to say the Airship fight (the most challenging CoP mission by far) after a few trys i'm betting you would just scrap the level60 cap and run through it. I remember that fight well, on our 6th or 7th attempt we lay there wiped, double weakend, with Ultima or Omega? I forget which at 1%HP and frustrated, then all of a sudden after 30secs of us all laying there wiped the mob dropped down dead - our RDM had landed a Bio on him and it dropped with us all wiped. It was a memerable feeling but,

From someone who loves a challenge, if the option is there to fight a battle like that uncapped then chances are you after a couple of trys and spending time gathering items needed for the fight you probably will just think 'F-it' and burn through that one forgetting all about it.

Even now, having just returned to the game after a 3 year break, I'm enjoying solo-ing content like Dyna, Limbus, Campaign Battles then VWNM's and Walk of Echo's for getting the WS's for my 4 jobs. I haven't even downloaded the Seekers edition to play Adoulin as I have far to much to do to take up my time, and I know once I have Adoulin I'd be stuck in skirmish and Delve so enjoying these other aspects of the game to the max first is fine with me, I'd like 4 emp ws's unlocked, all the Dyna+2 gear, and AF+1 gear and WotG storyline complete before I move on. Some of it is a doddle (95% of Limbus) but then other things are challenging (tierII+ WoE) solo so I enjoy a nice mix of easy and hard.

[mdjohns23]

We actually did our first Spire fight last week and it was sooooooo AWESOME!!! I don’t think I’ve ever been so nervous about a video game before My teammates were fantastic! We did the fight at level 30. Everyone used their animas on time. Oh!! Even when the little baby things started popping out (I forget what they were called) no one panicked and the melee kept them off us mages.

The only bad thing was we found out that we got more exp after winning the fight (it was a reward for winning the fight) and it caused some of us to level to 31. At level 30 the fight seemed easy. Does that mean when we fight the next spire boss that it will be even easier because we’re 31? Bren tried his best to keep us from getting too much exp by having a friend place a level 38 mule in the zone and we created an alliance with her. It helped only a little bit, though. Now it makes even more sense for us to keep hoping for the optional level cap, because Bren should not have to go through so much trouble to help keep things challenging for us.

I know that the exp reward for winning our boss fights cannot be avoided. But, if we had optional level caps, it wouldn’t have made a difference because we would still be able to stay at level 30 for the next Promyvion fights. Can we please get optional level caps?

[Demonjustin]

In my opinion optional level caps wouldn't be a bad thing but I think the best thing would be to allow us to set a level sync in our party to whatever level we want whilst also allowing this to work in BCNMs. If you want to be level 30 you could cap yourself at 30, you'd still get XP but it wouldn't matter anyways because that wouldn't ever stop you from setting yourself right back where you want for the sake of challenging yourself.

[Lithera]

The next two fights shouldn't be too much easier at 31.

[Ranmikel]

From someone who loves a challenge, if the option is there to fight a battle like that uncapped then chances are you after a couple of trys and spending time gathering items needed for the fight you probably will just think 'F-it' and burn through that one forgetting all about it.


Yeah, actually, that sort of "f*** it" moment is what I look forward to. It's true that a party might get frustrated and then decide to just level up to take the edge off of a particularly difficult battle. But there's something (like you said) that is really satisfying about beating an opponent on pure teamwork, strategy, communication, and knowledge of the game and your fellow adventurers (the Bio effect KO'ing the mob sounds pretty awesome, if I'm reading you correctly.)

It's pretty easy to just take on a dungeon over and over after failing and getting stronger stats-wise just by leveling. If you didn't have problems beating pre-NM/event mobs on the way to the NM, then you probably won't have much trouble the second and third times. But it'll get easier just by getting stronger in levels. The problem I see with that is that you're not necessarily having to rely on teamwork aspects when you begin to gain levels incidentally after several tries.

Having an optional level cap lets anyone enjoy that challenge in whichever way they choose.

If you want to repeat it (and it's repeatable), you could get it out of the way for the rewards or the story, and then take some newer players into it later and enjoy the challenge with them as they learn the basics of the game.

If you want to challenge it and beat it on pure acumen and teamwork alone, then you can do that as well with an optional cap, and then repeat it with the cap off once you had the satisfaction of taking on a challenge and beating it with your comrades.

You wouldn't have to wait until endgame-ish sorts of scenarios where you need a level 99 job with really nice abilities and gear to stand a chance to have that sort of experience.

[Lex222]

For anyone reading this and is part of the group that Tristian is talking about, could you give me a rough timetable of when you plan on starting Chains of Promathia missions? If it's ok, I would like to keep tabs on your progress (or lack of) :eek:

Thanks for your interest, Youby!:) Here’s a quick VALOR update. As Asmo previously (and quite enthusiastically^^) mentioned, the 1G of Valor just began their Promyvion missions and successfully completed Promyvion-Dem (congratz^^) @30. We are using the time between now and our next Promyvion Mission (Mea) to improve on enfeeble cycle, renkei, and magic bursting.


At level 30 the fight seemed easy. Does that mean when we fight the next spire boss that it will be even easier because we’re 31?

You are very right, Asmo.:D It did seem like a pretty easy fight, even at level 30. I know you and the rest of 1G trained hard together for the two weeks prior to the fight and were ready for a big challenge. Bren had them doing things like learning how to identify elements by the inner glow, choosing the correct spells to cast based on the elements, and then communicating to each other effectively during fights. They had even worked out multiple renkei so that the renkei element was customized to the mob element.

Putting that much preparation and hard work into a fight that seems easy is just one more reason to add optional level caps. Preparing and being ready for a challenging battle to be met by a weak mob (due to player level) is a big letdown and certainly doesn't encourage that much excitement for upcoming Promy battles. I have to say that I am also a very big supporter of the optional level caps so that preparation, creative battle strategy, and hard work pay off. :cool:

[Ranmikel]

For anyone reading this and is part of the group that Tristian is talking about, could you give me a rough timetable of when you plan on starting Chains of Promathia missions? If it's ok, I would like to keep tabs on your progress (or lack of) :eek:

Thanks kindly to those of you who have supported this post up to now. For those that might be cautious (or even skeptical) about our request, I’m hoping that by explaining a little more about our linkshell, our reasons for requesting the optional level cap might become clear.

VALOR is a static linkshell. This means we move through all aspects of FFXI as a unit. Whenever we enroll new members, the veterans halt storyline progress and join the new members as they work to catch up to everyone else. When the newer members are caught up, everyone moves forward in the storyline together, once more.

In an attempt to make do without an optional level cap, we have had members level 5-8 different jobs with newer players. As our linkshell grows, we are running out of jobs to join newer members with. Level sync is only good for non-mission caliber events and, as the OP noted, is severely limiting when it comes to managing rate of exp gain.

We recognize that our style of play is an older, outdated way of approaching the game, and our goal is certainly not to force our beliefs on everyone else. This is why we are requesting the optional level cap. An optional level cap allows us to go back and join in the fight with lower level players without stealing a new experience from them (i.e. Mission Battlefields). We aim to fight with them and not for them.

Please consider the OP request. Our linkshell only has 31 members at the moment (up from 13 members in May), but that may not be enough to promote change. Still, V.A.L.O.R. is structured for providing all members with teamwork development and leadership opportunities. Optional level caps would help enrich that experience that much more.

[Rexaliya]

At level 30 the fight seemed easy. Does that mean when we fight the next spire boss that it will be even easier because we’re 31?

Invited three friends to try out the game during the promotions this past week… realized that I could not join them on their lower level adventure mission fights… found myself back at this thread. I was hoping it would have been addressed by now, giving the four of us something to look forward to, but I guess not.

All of my jobs are at level 60 or higher. I convinced my friends to try it out under the promise that we would be adventuring together. For us, adventuring meant going through the different mission storylines together. So far we have done nation rank missions 1 thru 4 and CoP missions up to the Minotaur fight. In all cases, I joined them with my jobs and destroyed the mission fights quickly and easily, with no challenge. Two of my friends are already bored because instead of adventuring with them, I ended up pretty much doing the fights for them.

So, once again, I really support this thread and I hope that optional level caps will be available soon. Please give us a chance to create our own challenges at any level, together. It will be hard for me to keep telling my friends that they have to wait until level 99 before we can enjoy challenging fights together.

I’d like to point out that right now blazing through 90% of the game just to get to the remaining 10% for a challenge together seems unnecessary and wasteful to me. FFXI is a great game that I feel lends itself to being enjoyed with friends. Rushing through to get to the end/challenging part shortens the enjoyment.

[Tidis]

You know you don't have to blaze through the game for them right? If you want to join in with them there's already level sync in place to reduce your level to theirs.

[Ranmikel]

You know you don't have to blaze through the game for them right? If you want to join in with them there's already level sync in place to reduce your level to theirs.

Yes, that would put us all on equal footing for an immediate challenge. But wouldn't that still net experience for fighting Easy Prey or more difficult mobs? One can fight and fail, fight and fail, and fight and fail some more. But all the while, you're gaining experience points and leveling without completing the objective or quest. If the aim is to get better at a task through solely teamwork and strategy, then just one or two levels can make the exact same approach and execution yield different results. You "won" not through teamwork and strategy. And that's very disappointing.

It is a suggestion, so thanks. And I appreciate that the forum community is giving it a thought with proper responses and aren't dismissing it straightaway.

But it doesn't quite address the concern, I don't think.

After leveling on such mobs, you'd have to find yet another character who was at a desired level to achieve the same level of difficulty on a task. You'd never be able to do it without "enlisting" or creating another character and having them be at a certain level.

[bungiefanNA]

Yes, that would put us all on equal footing for an immediate challenge. But wouldn't that still net experience for fighting Easy Prey or more difficult mobs? One can fight and fail, fight and fail, and fight and fail some more. But all the while, you're gaining experience points and leveling without completing the objective or quest. If the aim is to get better at a task through solely teamwork and strategy, then just one or two levels can make the exact same approach and execution yield different results. You "won" not through teamwork and strategy. And that's very disappointing.

It is a suggestion, so thanks. And I appreciate that the forum community is giving it a thought with proper responses and aren't dismissing it straightaway.

But it doesn't quite address the concern, I don't think.

After leveling on such mobs, you'd have to find yet another character who was at a desired level to achieve the same level of difficulty on a task. You'd never be able to do it without "enlisting" or creating another character and having them be at a certain level.

Well, if you don't want the EXP from it, you can intentionally get KOed by a mob and lose the EXP you gained. You just can't delevel below 30 that way. That would allow you to keep your Level Sync target at a specific level.

You can also lower your effectiveness by equipping lower level equipment. If you're level 60, but wearing level 25 gear, you're not going to blaze through content like you would if wearing level 60 gear. You still have the benefit of the increased HP and MP pools, but the extra attack and defense power from the stats on the equipment won't be there. Evasion is really the only thing you have going for you at that point.

Many of the NMs that Rexaliya fought are not in battlefields, so Level Sync was an option.

[BlankM]

I would love dev acknowledgement of this. I'm just coming back from FFXIV and I really like the flexibility of FFXI's level sync over the way FFXIV does it. However FFXIV has the advantage of redoing instances and even rewards people daily for level syncing to dungeons they've already done and helping possibly new players.

Thats exactly what I want from FFXI. A way to redo old content with my friends without it being trivialized very quickly. At least let level sync be available in missions? Or maybe something that temporarily delevels you?

I want to play the game and be able to invite friends later to adventure with. Without trivializing the experience of older content for them if we so choose to challenge ourselves.