Delve 1.0

[predatory]

So I took a short break because I was pissed off about there being very little relevant conten with the advent of SoA and all its ilvl crap, but before I left I built a Speleogen Bow, and fully upgraded it, thinking it would last long enough for me to someday build an annhilator. Imagine my surprise when I came back and found a bow I'd invested millions of gil into, being virtually worthless. WTF is going on with you people?

I have a suggestion, raise the item levels on our delve 1 weapons and armor to 119, and treat them like they are half way upraded, or let us recycle them for the plasm, either way this verticle progression has to end after you let us reforge our empy armor, so you can concentrate on giving us some meaningful content. Part of which would be a questline telling us exactly why we are fighting each delve

[Demonjustin]

So I took a short break because I was pissed off about there being very little relevant conten with the advent of SoA and all its ilvl crap, but before I left I built a Speleogen Bow, and fully upgraded it, thinking it would last long enough for me to someday build an annhilator. Imagine my surprise when I came back and found a bow I'd invested millions of gil into, being virtually worthless. WTF is going on with you people?

I have a suggestion, raise the item levels on our delve 1 weapons and armor to 119, and treat them like they are half way upraded, or let us recycle them for the plasm, either way this verticle progression has to end after you let us reforge our empy armor, so you can concentrate on giving us some meaningful content. Part of which would be a questline telling us exactly why we are fighting each delveThey've made it apparent that the cap will be 119 for a while at very least, so no fear on that front. So far as your bow I can't say your argument holds much water, I mean you left for what I can assume is 6+ months from your statement, which to me means you're basically complaining that since you left the weapon you invested millions into is now worth hundreds of k if that, which I understand, but it's not all too dissimilar to a SAM coming back and complaining their Hagun is worthless. A Plasm refund of some sort would be nice, but that's about the extent of what I see them doing, upgrading the gear in general would be nice but I doubt they'd do it since the new Delve has it's own gear unlike Skirmish for instance which upgraded the previous gear while having none of it's own.

[Damane]

So I took a short break because I was pissed off about there being very little relevant conten with the advent of SoA and all its ilvl crap, but before I left I built a Speleogen Bow, and fully upgraded it, thinking it would last long enough for me to someday build an annhilator. Imagine my surprise when I came back and found a bow I'd invested millions of gil into, being virtually worthless. WTF is going on with you people?

I have a suggestion, raise the item levels on our delve 1 weapons and armor to 119, and treat them like they are half way upraded, or let us recycle them for the plasm, either way this verticle progression has to end after you let us reforge our empy armor, so you can concentrate on giving us some meaningful content. Part of which would be a questline telling us exactly why we are fighting each delve

get a new bow and move on, like everyone else. when you got that weapon you allready saw that ilvl 119 weapons were on the way (boss drops from delve 1.0) it should have been clear to you that in some months there would be a bow with ilvl 119 surpassing yours, thats where your logic failed.

[predatory]

get a new bow and move on, like everyone else. when you got that weapon you allready saw that ilvl 119 weapons were on the way (boss drops from delve 1.0) it should have been clear to you that in some months there would be a bow with ilvl 119 surpassing yours, thats where your logic failed.

How is that failed logic? Why should I assume that current boss levels will be next weeks norm? Who even thinks like that anyway? I'll get a new bow, but I've learned my lesson about delve gear.

[Damane]

How is that failed logic? Why should I assume that current boss levels will be next weeks norm? Who even thinks like that anyway? I'll get a new bow, but I've learned my lesson about delve gear.

you got the bow from delve 1.0 which allready had ilvl 119 weapons and the bow was clearly under that lvl. it was clear that they would introduce all weapon types at ilvl 119 in a matter of time. i had a sword too from delve 1.0 fully upgraded which i trashed. I would agree with your bitchign if it were a Relic/Mythic/Empy weapon but its not, its a ilvl 113 delve 1.0 weapon. so trash it and move on.

[predatory]

you got the bow from delve 1.0 which allready had ilvl 119 weapons and the bow was clearly under that lvl. it was clear that they would introduce all weapon types at ilvl 119 in a matter of time. i had a sword too from delve 1.0 fully upgraded which i trashed. I would agree with your bitchign if it were a Relic/Mythic/Empy weapon but its not, its a ilvl 113 delve 1.0 weapon. so trash it and move on.

you're funny, that means there's absolutely no reason to do half the content of the first half of this expansion, the only things relevant at this point are skirmishes for armor to upgrade and accessories. This is the first time in the history of this game that new content is obsolete while an expansion is still being put together, and this is what? Groovy and somehow a good thing? Have you lost your fucking mind? There is no reason for parts of this expansion to be obsolete just yet

[Camiie]

So I took a short break because I was pissed off about there being very little relevant conten with the advent of SoA and all its ilvl crap, but before I left I built a Speleogen Bow, and fully upgraded it, thinking it would last long enough for me to someday build an annhilator. Imagine my surprise when I came back and found a bow I'd invested millions of gil into, being virtually worthless. WTF is going on with you people?

I have a suggestion, raise the item levels on our delve 1 weapons and armor to 119, and treat them like they are half way upraded, or let us recycle them for the plasm, either way this verticle progression has to end after you let us reforge our empy armor, so you can concentrate on giving us some meaningful content. Part of which would be a questline telling us exactly why we are fighting each delve

Your own words in another thread betray you:


What about doing things you do have time to? If they take away everything that takes time to do, or time to set up for people who don't allow themselves time to play, (yes I did say allow yourself time to play, because people make their own choices about what to do with their time), there will be nothing to do for those of us who genuinely enjoy playing the game. If you're of the mindset that everything has to be doable quickly, then you've missed the point of playing an mmo. these are games you Can't win, they're designed for long term enjoyment, and if you don't like playing the game enough to mak time to do things, then you should find a new game or genre of game to play. Maybe minecraft or FFXIV are more to your tastes?

Games do not stand the test of time if everything can be done in minutes. Period end of story. WoW is still alive, but hemorraging people after all the years it's been around, so is FFXI. The rest of the MMOs I can think of go f2p in a couple of years. So from what I can see the games that take awhile to get things going, last far longer than those that offer instant gratification.

[Demonjustin]

you're funny, that means there's absolutely no reason to do half the content of the first half of this expansion, the only things relevant at this point are skirmishes for armor to upgrade and accessories. This is the first time in the history of this game that new content is obsolete while an expansion is still being put together, and this is what? Groovy and somehow a good thing? Have you lost your fucking mind? There is no reason for parts of this expansion to be obsolete just yetThe reason why is because this expansion took more of an Abyssea like stance when it came to raising the cap, increasing our levels in increments rather than all at one time. If all of Abyssea were an expansion together and had done put the cap at 99 from the start it wouldn't have been any different because half the gear would have been in the upper 70s and lower 80s while Heroes would've been focused on 90s. Adoulin came out with Delve which was bad originally because of the 119 cap it originally gave, finally we caught up to that point with the rest of the content but originally it did start at 100~110 gear with the Coalition gear and original Delve gear. Only recently have we hit this level of 119 becoming a commonality. The reason that the other expansions didn't actually outdated their own gear is they were all basically made for level 75 cap, this expansion raised it's cap in the middle of it and created new gear at that level.

[AppropriateName5786]

Your own words in another thread betray you:

Wow, owned.

[predatory]

Your own words in another thread betray you:

Not at all, the posts you pointed to were about time to do content, and my suggestion to SE had nothing to do with time, it was all about gil consumed for items that were outdated after people spent millions of gil making them. If it were just about time you wouldn't have seen me whining about them. Did you see any mention of the coalition gear or skirmish gear being outdated? No because all those take to make are time. What I was talking about was the gear that costs virtually millions of gear that are worthless now. So no my other posts didn't betray me at all, if I were QQing because it took time to build them, then your reply would be vailid

[predatory]

Wow, owned.

Critical thinking not your strong point?

[predatory]

The reason why is because this expansion took more of an Abyssea like stance when it came to raising the cap, increasing our levels in increments rather than all at one time. If all of Abyssea were an expansion together and had done put the cap at 99 from the start it wouldn't have been any different because half the gear would have been in the upper 70s and lower 80s while Heroes would've been focused on 90s. Adoulin came out with Delve which was bad originally because of the 119 cap it originally gave, finally we caught up to that point with the rest of the content but originally it did start at 100~110 gear with the Coalition gear and original Delve gear. Only recently have we hit this level of 119 becoming a commonality. The reason that the other expansions didn't actually outdated their own gear is they were all basically made for level 75 cap, this expansion raised it's cap in the middle of it and created new gear at that level.

That is one of the problems with this expansion, in order to get the best gear at the time we had to take it through the mezzoniting process, in order to get the best gear for aby you took it through the Magian trial process, one is being upgraded the other is not. I have a valid point here, they should either let us finish the upgrading process through mezonniting to take our delve 1 gear to the 119 cap or let us recycle it for plasm. It's simple, and I'm not the only one who feels this way.


If you have a simulacrum you can take it back and have it dismantled to get your components back. I would like to see a new "de-mezzotinting" system which does the same for delve gear. When I put around 30m gil of Airlixir +2s into my Mikinaak and Bokwus armor sets, I spent that money because I thought lvl 110 was going to be useful for a long time. Now those very expensive armors are in deep storage and I can't use them in events. It would be nice to be able to de-mezzotint them and get my airlixir +2s back, so I can use those expensive items on the new higher level delve gear instead.
This is different to augmenting skirmish gear because you know you are basically gambling when you put loads of +2 skirmish stones into an item. With Delve armors we were not gambling, we were following a linear upgrade path which cost many millions of gil, and we did that so that we could have useful armors, not knowing that stronger armors would soon appear at a cost of just a few thousands sparks, ie. free. So it would be nice if SE made de-mezzotinting the same as dismantling simulacra, in which you can get your component items returned to you. I am not optimistic about my Mikinaak or Bokwus ever getting upgrades higher than 110, so it would be nice if I could get the airlixirs back since the whole upgrade process was a waste of money, now that lvl 110 armors are <Too weak.>

[Camiie]

Not at all, the posts you pointed to were about time to do content, and my suggestion to SE had nothing to do with time, it was all about gil consumed for items that were outdated after people spent millions of gil making them. If it were just about time you wouldn't have seen me whining about them. Did you see any mention of the coalition gear or skirmish gear being outdated? No because all those take to make are time. What I was talking about was the gear that costs virtually millions of gear that are worthless now. So no my other posts didn't betray me at all, if I were QQing because it took time to build them, then your reply would be vailid

Time is money. Time is points, plasm, ichor, cruor, bayld, etc. You spent millions on a bow. Someone else spent years waiting for a hat to drop from Dynamis back in the day. At least your goal of upgrading that bow was a sure thing. Random drops never are.

Besides, you really should have known what was coming. You should have realized the path SE was setting us on. Gear isn't supposed to last you for years anymore. You're not supposed to get emotionally attached to a piece anymore. It's totally your choice whether you max your upgrades out right now or save your resources for what's coming next. At least you have real options now unlike in the past.

[Damane]

Not at all, the posts you pointed to were about time to do content, and my suggestion to SE had nothing to do with time, it was all about gil consumed for items that were outdated after people spent millions of gil making them. If it were just about time you wouldn't have seen me whining about them. Did you see any mention of the coalition gear or skirmish gear being outdated? No because all those take to make are time. What I was talking about was the gear that costs virtually millions of gear that are worthless now. So no my other posts didn't betray me at all, if I were QQing because it took time to build them, then your reply would be vailid

so make time to farm gil back via Dynamis/Salvage, problem solved. Delve gear doesnt involve any gil to be made, it was YOUR decision to go to the AH and buy the airlixirs to upgrade it instead of in YOUR OWN words: "make time to farm the plasm".

[Camiie]

Re; the lvl 110 Mikinaak Bokwus Manibohzo armors, we were never told that "these armors will not continue to upgrade in future version updates." SE never said that basically "to mezzotint these armors will cost you 30m gil, the armors will be useful for about six weeks and then skirmish and sparks gear will arrive and your 30m armors will get laughed at in events. Don't waste your gil on these delve armors." They should have said that, because for many players who do not buy gil or spend 24/7 playing FFXI, 30m gil is quite a lot of money, especially if (like me) you famously /random low numbers on all the valuable gil drops in events.
Predatory's example of Magians armors is a good one, because magian weapons scaled up gradually with future version updates that added new trials and higher levels for your item. Magians were not released with a finished lvl99 completed weapon available, it happened gradually. I myself assumed that Mikinaak and Bokwus armors were the same, and future updates would increase the power of these armor sets to be in line with whatever ilvl SE had decided to increase to. The effort and cost of the Delve lvl 110 armors was so high that I never assumed they would just be junk gear in six weeks after I finished them.
Also re; "gear isn't supposed to last you for years anymore" that is not true if as SE have said lvl 119 is the end of the road, that means your Reforged armors will be relevant for a long time. My issue is that SE made these really expensive 110 armors a year ago and never told us that they would stay 110 or that we would be smarter if we saved our 30m to invest in lvl 119 Reforged. If they had said that, I would have not wasted my time or money. So de-mezzotinting our gimped 110 armors to get the airlixir+2s back would be a solution to a problem that most players could not have predicted.


Oh come on. As soon as they started in on item levels the writing was on the wall. The only people who couldn't have guessed what was in store were the ones who lived in a purely FFXI-centric bubble. It should have been obvious they were copying the WoW model and in that gear comes hard and fast and doesn't last very long. What should also have been a clue was how quickly and brutally they murdered the vast majority of pre-Adoulin gear. If that wasn't them sending a message that there are no sacred cows anymore then what was it?

Look I've spent a bundle on augmenting gear too, mostly due to my own insecurities. If SE created a refund system I'd certainly take advantage of it, but IMO you should never invest in a piece of gear and expect to get anything other than the stats that come on it.

Also, I am not going to be counting on 119 being the end of anything. I think that'd be highly foolish at this point. The 119 sets may last longer than 110-117, but they'll eventually be replaced. Prepare yourself for it now, so we don't have to go through this all over again next year.

[Demonjustin]

Ah yes. "What should also have been a clue was how quickly and brutally they murdered the vast majority of pre-Adoulin gear. "

Except that the main armors from pre-Adoulin are now level 119 !!! AF, Relic, Empy armor (soon) are all lvl 119. So please explain your logic to an ignorant commoner like me, how is an armor that is ONE YEAR OLD like my Mikinaak Set, and which cost me millions of gil, how is that armor stuck at level 110 when AF that is ten years old is now shiny level 119. And skirmish got level up to 119 in recent updates. Everything except our Delve armor sets, which just sits there at level 110 like a big golden pig.The main armors are 119? No, not even close, only 3 sets for each job are upgraded and that's because those sets are special iconic sets for the jobs. I could list of tons of gear that's not only harder to get than those but were much more common than any of those pieces that were never upgraded, one easy goto thing to bring up would be the Pulse Bodies. None of the glowing gear got any upgrades despite their popularity(Mekira, Heka's, and Toci's were all extremely popular) and that's without mentioning any of the other 99 content. The only things that were upgraded from 99 to item levels are Artifact, Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean items. These items are and were truly special, that's their reason for being upgraded, they're the exception not the rule by any means.

As for Mikinaak, it's not special, just another piece in an ocean of gear.


You must agree that it is completely random, and nobody except Nostredamus could predict that SE would invent level 110 Delve armors, give us the option of spending months farming them and 30m gil upgrading them, then just abandon those armors at level 110 while suddenly deciding to make AF, Relic, Empy, Skirmish armors level 119.Except that I don't agree. The only ilevel gear to be upgraded by trading in an older version of itself is Skirmish, that was random but could be seen coming from the example set by the fact you could do the same with weapons. Delve gear had no example of such a thing, in fact it had a large level gap between it's end gear and it's starting gear with no way to bridge that gap, something Skirmish never had.


And these armors don't cost 30m to upgrade either.You never tried for a rare augment like 2% Double Attack or 30(?) MAB, augments could easily cost much more than 30M if unlucky and I know people who spent a lot more than that on augments only to have their augments wiped when the +1 came out and they upgraded their gear. The Skirmish gear was no different in that respect except the base piece was upgraded rather than a new piece being released, asking it to be like Skirmish would mean upgrading your gear to 119 but those wonderful augments you got through Airlixirs? All gone, wiped in the process.

In all honesty buying the new 119 gear and upgrading it isn't really all too different from what people doing Skirmish are having to do. You need a ton of Plasm? Well the KI in Skirmish is stupidly rare, I think doing 2 runs of Tojil would be faster than doing the runs needed in Skirmish to get a KI unless you're lucky. The amount of +2s you need compared to originals? Oh, double the +2s, seems fair since the prices on stones are now quite a bit higher too compared to their counterparts. If you compare the two the only really meaningful difference is the fact your new Xaddi gear isn't the same exact gear as your old Mikinaak, it looks different and it has different base stats.

[predatory]

Oh come on. As soon as they started in on item levels the writing was on the wall. The only people who couldn't have guessed what was in store were the ones who lived in a purely FFXI-centric bubble. It should have been obvious they were copying the WoW model and in that gear comes hard and fast and doesn't last very long. What should also have been a clue was how quickly and brutally they murdered the vast majority of pre-Adoulin gear. If that wasn't them sending a message that there are no sacred cows anymore then what was it?

Look I've spent a bundle on augmenting gear too, mostly due to my own insecurities. If SE created a refund system I'd certainly take advantage of it, but IMO you should never invest in a piece of gear and expect to get anything other than the stats that come on it.

Also, I am not going to be counting on 119 being the end of anything. I think that'd be highly foolish at this point. The 119 sets may last longer than 110-117, but they'll eventually be replaced. Prepare yourself for it now, so we don't have to go through this all over again next year.

Unlike the WoW model (and yes I have a level capped Panda warrior), FFXI put upgrade paths on Magian gear (something WoW does not do), there's upgrade paths on delve gear too, why is it so hard for you to comprehend that people would assume they would be able to continue upgrading delve gear to cap?

[Demonjustin]

Ah, my pet troll is back.
As usual you randomly pick lines out of my post, and you try to find some way to start an argument.Disagreeing on someone on many things = trolling them. Replying in sections rather than an entire post at once = randomly picking out lines of your post.


A good example of this;

"The main armors are 119? No, not even close, only 3 sets for each job are upgraded and that's because those sets are special iconic sets for the jobs. I could list of tons of gear that's not only harder to get than those but were much more common than any of those pieces that were never upgraded, one easy goto thing to bring up would be the Pulse Bodies."

Only 3 sets for each job? Only? WTF. Thats a lot of armor and you call it "only".Compared to the amount of gear overall at 99 yes it's a small number in my opinion, especially when you think about the fact that it's only 3 sets for each job, as in it's not Salvage, VW, NNI, Meebles, and Limbus gear all upgraded to 119 totaling in around 6 sets of gear for each job.


As for the rest of that nonsense, "special iconic" etc. not really, these were practical working armors, for functional use. My Ravager's Set+2 which I farmed in mid 2010, was my main WAR set every day for three years. And that is one of the armors I mentioned in the post you attacked for no reason. Empy armor that will soon be lvl 119.
Also THF relic gloves+2, I used those a lot. Smn relic set+2, used that a lot. Whm AF 4/5 with a Nobles tunic, used that set a lot. Whm empy set+2, used that a lot. War empy set+2, used that a lot. Etc.etc.Did I say they weren't used? No, I never did, I mean I even use my Estoqueur's set to this day. That doesn't change the fact they're special sets, when I say they're iconic I don't mean they're little vanity sets like the chocobo suits, I mean they're sets that are designed specifically for that job with a visual design which is similar to their design they've been given throughout Final Fantasy. For example my RDM doesn't look like a traditional RDM with most gear, yet my Warlock's/Atrophy, Duelist's/Vitivations, and Estoqueur's sets all come with a visual design that represents RDM, when wearing that gear I look like an actual RDM rather than a common person wearing a robe or gambison. The AF/Relic/Empyrean are all special pieces of gear in a way none of the other gear was, so it was a different story.


So your argument that what I said was wrong, when I said basically that some of the main old armors have been upgraded to 119, your argument is BS. That won't stop you trying to weasel around and wriggle around the facts, though. You were never trying to make any valid points anyway, just trying to distract from the points I made by trying to pick little holes in them, even though I made perfectly valid points.Only a few pieces of Relic were used before being reforged, Empyrean was used widely, but that doesn't mean it was the main gear because there's a lot more than just those that were used. I'm not avoiding facts, just pointing out what I see to be inaccurate statements or exaggerations about what was upgraded to 119.

[Camiie]

Unlike the WoW model (and yes I have a level capped Panda warrior), FFXI put upgrade paths on Magian gear (something WoW does not do), there's upgrade paths on delve gear too, why is it so hard for you to comprehend that people would assume they would be able to continue upgrading delve gear to cap?

Magian? You mean the system that SE abandoned at level 99 when Adoulin was released? Delve? Where the upgrades exist just to get your gear to the displayed item level? At what point were you promised or was it implied that you would have an infinite upgrade path? If you assumed it, that's totally on you.

[predatory]

Magian? You mean the system that SE abandoned at level 99 when Adoulin was released? Delve? Where the upgrades exist just to get your gear to the displayed item level? At what point were you promised or was it implied that you would have an infinite upgrade path? If you assumed it, that's totally on you.

So you're totally against them upgrading delve 1.0 and would rather toss that shit then upgrade it if they actually put a system in place right? Because that is what you're arguing against. I bet if they upgraded it tomorrow you'd be the first person standing in line to get it done. I'm trying to offer something constructive for the community and you're trying to tear it down. Well good for you

[Damane]

So you're totally against them upgrading delve 1.0 and would rather toss that shit then upgrade it if they actually put a system in place right? Because that is what you're arguing against. I bet if they upgraded it tomorrow you'd be the first person standing in line to get it done. I'm trying to offer something constructive for the community and you're trying to tear it down. Well good for you

We have allready too much upgrade gear, there is no need to carry even more olde wtf armor to upgrade it. Let olde armor die and toss it, end of discussion. Inventory is allready clusterfucked there is no need to carry another 93239023 pieces of old gear for upgrades.

I upgraded my artsieq gear that surpasses bokwus and tossed basicly all bokuws pieces, MOVE ON.

[predatory]

We have allready too much upgrade gear, there is no need to carry even more olde wtf armor to upgrade it. Let olde armor die and toss it, end of discussion. Inventory is allready clusterfucked there is no need to carry another 93239023 pieces of old gear for upgrades.

I upgraded my artsieq gear that surpasses bokwus and tossed basicly all bokuws pieces, MOVE ON.

Sorry that's not the end of the discussion, you'll know when the discussion is over because people won't be posting anymore. When you say olde, how old could it be? Delve 2 hasn't been around all that long, you peopl are so sucked into the verticl upgrade system that your heads are going to explode when they go back to sidegrades

[Demonjustin]

your heads are going to explode when they go back to sidegradesThey already have went back to side-grades, Delve II, all Delve bosses, Skirmish II, RF, all gear that drops from Merit Point NMs, and likely everything else for the most part that will come out gear related in the next few months will all be level 119 cap, that's basically saying it'll all be side-grades a this point.

[predatory]

They already have went back to side-grades, Delve II, all Delve bosses, Skirmish II, RF, all gear that drops from Merit Point NMs, and likely everything else for the most part that will come out gear related in the next few months will all be level 119 cap, that's basically saying it'll all be side-grades a this point.

I find the "for the next few months" part of that reply to be disturbing. It sounds almost like vertical upgrades are becoming acceptable, and IMO it's not acceptable at all if there's not going to be a path to actually upgrade gear we get in this expansion from one ilevel to the next, while they add new stuff along theway. That would be acceptable to me. Spending millions on gear that's going to be worthless tomorrow is not only unacceptable, it's infuriating as well.

[Demonjustin]

I don't want the cap to change any more than you, I only said it in that exact way because SE has made it clear that the cap for now is 119, but they did point out specifically when they said it that it would be 119 for a while, not necessarily would it be permanent. I think going above 119 would be stupid for many reasons including but not limited to the fact they'd have to upgrade our AF/R/M/E all to 129 or whatever in the future as well or they'd be put in a hole again with a mass of complaints about how the gear is worthless. They faced a massive resistance when they raised the cap to 119 and tried to do vertical progression, I hope they never again try that stance, but if they do I feel it best to leave my comments open for it. I don't presume to know either way, but I did feel it worth pointing out the possibility exists even though it's still many months away so far as they tell us, if it even happens at all.

[predatory]

I don't want the cap to change any more than you, I only said it in that exact way because SE has made it clear that the cap for now is 119, but they did point out specifically when they said it that it would be 119 for a while, not necessarily would it be permanent. I think going above 119 would be stupid for many reasons including but not limited to the fact they'd have to upgrade our AF/R/M/E all to 129 or whatever in the future as well or they'd be put in a hole again with a mass of complaints about how the gear is worthless. They faced a massive resistance when they raised the cap to 119 and tried to do vertical progression, I hope they never again try that stance, but if they do I feel it best to leave my comments open for it. I don't presume to know either way, but I did feel it worth pointing out the possibility exists even though it's still many months away so far as they tell us, if it even happens at all.

If they do it again, I hope they provide upgrade paths because this dumping millions of gil only to find out it was wasted just irks the hell out of me., probably alot like those people i've been loling about when it comes to time, but they really do need to do something about this because I'm not even sure if I even want to bother with going through the trouble to get and upgrade the delve 2 bow and I know I'm not going to do any of the armor pieces for rng, dnc, brd, or pld.

So how about it se, let us upgrade our delve 1 gear, or let us demezzonite it for our plasm and airlixers, you could give us half the plasm back and 100% of the airlixers +2 put into them

[Demonjustin]

I just want to point out, in the end I do agree with the idea of upgrading the original Delve gear to 119, I'm not in any way opposed to it, but the main reason I've been posting in a way that may seem like I am is because the main complaint seemed to be directed toward the fact the gear was upgraded via augmentation. If your hopes were to get it upgraded to 119 and retain your augments I think you'd find yourself disappointed even after the update just as many people did with Skirmish, so while I agree with the sentiments of upgrading the gear to 119 I more or less just meant to point out I doubt that augments would stay, and if that's the main reason you wanted them upgraded(because you spent so much on augments) then your reasoning was a bit flawed since they would probably be wiped upon the upgrade.

[predatory]

I said in my first post, a point which you either didn't read or failed to understand, that the difference between skirmish and delve augments is that delve gear was airlixired in a strict linear upgrade path, whereas skirmish gear is gambling, it is Las Vegas. I myself have lots of lvl 119 skirmish gear because my LS spams the new skirmish, I just used one +2 stone / piece and left it at that because I am not a gambler, I don't throw money around hoping to get lucky. So for skirmish I get the 119 and I put one +2 stone on it for an aug and then I stop.
Delve gear was different, because in order to complete the linear upgrade path, which involved zero gambling and was therefor a required upgrade path and not just an optional "hey I feel lucky today!" kind of Vegas ride, and so when I put 30m into my Bokwus, Manibohzo, Mikinaak armors, I was doing so because they were a linear upgrade path, and I have always made a point of completing upgrade paths when I start them.
And it is not about the money, as I've said many times, if I had cared so much about the money I would not have spent it. It is about the fact that armors which took me weeks of grinding Delve to obtain, then 30m to upgrade, are now 9 levels lower that Artifact armor which does not involve battling Delve bosses and does not involve 30m. My Delve gear is also 7 levels lower than sparks gear, which takes like 20 minutes to obtain just smacking some EP mob around. My point was that I would like this armor to scale up to 119. And if that is not possible, I would like de-mezzotinting so I can sell the 30m gil of airlixirs. It feels stupid having 30m armor on my Moghouse Mannequin. I would prefer to use this armor on my WAR, or dismantle it and sell the lixirs. But I doubt any of this will happen, I was just chiming in with my own experiences and how I wish I had spent those months disco-dancing or something instead of farming delve.

And this is exactly what I want the devs to hear, because those of us that post on the forum are a minority, a few people ingame brought it up, so I thought I'd post about it. Since SE started us on an upgrade path they should let us finish that path, not just say oh well this was never meant to be upgraded too bad so sad, now move along.

[Damane]

And this is exactly what I want the devs to hear, because those of us that post on the forum are a minority, a few people ingame brought it up, so I thought I'd post about it. Since SE started us on an upgrade path they should let us finish that path, not just say oh well this was never meant to be upgraded too bad so sad, now move along.

what you talking, the upgrade path on that particular delve armor is finished, there is no going beyond rank 15, despite the fact some of those pieces are still best for various melee sets (WSs or full acc/haste sets etc) various mikanaak and manibozho pieces come to mind.

[Demonjustin]

The thing is that you both keep talking about upgrading the gear costing so much gil and having been for nothing, what I'm saying is I've no problem with a Mikinaak +1 at 119, but if you honestly think that your augments will be retained or you'll get a refund I think you're sadly mistaken. No such thing was done for Skirmish gear, nothing on either of those two points was done, our gear we poured gil into for augments lost their augments, and we effectively lost our gil, it's just how it was. I like the idea of upgrading the gear, but expecting, or seemingly expecting, the augments to remain on the gear as well is what's keeping me from actually agreeing with you on this subject completely.

[predatory]

what you talking, the upgrade path on that particular delve armor is finished, there is no going beyond rank 15, despite the fact some of those pieces are still best for various melee sets (WSs or full acc/haste sets etc) various mikanaak and manibozho pieces come to mind.

http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/pdf/ar_2013_01en.pdf
I bet I get my upgrades, lol SE is bleeding money, and right now they're chasing their tails trying to think of ways to keep their clients appeased.

[Damane]

http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/pdf/ar_2013_01en.pdf
I bet I get my upgrades, lol SE is bleeding money, and right now they're chasing their tails trying to think of ways to keep their clients appeased.

i dont know, they seem to do okeish, bravely default did great, FFXI is still printing money and 14 is printing money too. other big projects are in the pipeline.

In all honesty tough I really dont care how they fare.

[predatory]

I don't care what they do or how the do it, I just want the option to upgrade these items, and I 'd like them to stop outdating content so fast, Imean hell, the gear that drops from wildskeeper reives is only ilevel 115, which makes a huge part of this entire expansion irrelevant, (reives, wildskeeper reives, and delve 1), and abunch of developement time, and money wasted.

[Damane]

I don't care what they do or how the do it, I just want the option to upgrade these items, and I 'd like them to stop outdating content so fast, Imean hell, the gear that drops from wildskeeper reives is only ilevel 115, which makes a huge part of this entire expansion irrelevant, (reives, wildskeeper reives, and delve 1), and abunch of developement time, and money wasted.

reives became irrelevant when you could get 15k bayld in one cirdas run for 3 min ¬.¬

[predatory]

reives became irrelevant when you could get 15k bayld in one cirdas run for 3 min ¬.¬

I'll give you that one, but people did use reives to get into WKRs. Now everything other than the jse mantles are just junk.

[Damane]

I'll give you that one, but people did use reives to get into WKRs. Now everything other than the jse mantles are just junk.

thats not quiet true, there are still some nices pieces out there, yumcax club comes to mind and some other pieces from morimar etc. also alot of people have gotten what they wanted from WKR. this is also the reason why they will add NEW gear to WKR again (for the 2. time)

I think you have a misconception about the ilvl system, the ilvl stystem is a steping stone, you climb up the ilvl system to reach ilvl 119, all gear inbetween 99-119 are steping stones (some still remain very good or best in place at 119) to help you push through harder stuff until you reach ilvl 119.

the steping stones are somethign like this (i cant remember the post of matsui):

bayld gear 1.0
WKR reive gear 1.0
skirmish weapons 1.0
bayld gear 2.0
AF Relic gear 109
delve gear 1.0 (non ilvl 119)
skimrish weapons and gear 2.0
WKR gear weapons 2.0 (ilvl 115)
Oboro weapons (port jeuno ilvl 119)
skirmish 3.0
AF and Relic 119
AAs hardmissions 119
delve 2.0 and delve 1.0 (ilvl 119)

in this order (or similir to this order)

this also means that gear/weapons aquired from steps inbetween will become unavoidable useless in most cases and that was stated from matsui himself, that it is a steping process. He also posted a similar list to this where which event ties in.

the only ecxeptions on that list are skirmish weapons/armor and AF Relic which are upgradeable to ilvl 119. Which makes sense because if you would make everythign upgradeable you would have a clusterfuck of an inventory.

this was said allready on the release of delve 1.0

some quotes: (this was on january 2014)


Matsui here.

I’d like to discuss the fundamental plans for upgrading equipment with item levels, as there are questions and uncertainty in regards to the future.

First, the equipment we are currently planning to make upgradeable is the reward equipment from Rala Waterways, Cirdas Cavern, and Yorcia Weald skirmishes. You’ll be able to perform the final upgrade to item level 119 with the new skirmishes that are to be added.

Besides these items, we do not have any plans to upgrade other equipment with item levels. Also, we’ll be introducing brand-new rewards in the skirmishes to be added after the next round.

If we were to continue adding upgrade items, players would have to keep a large amount of equipment and this is tied to inventory space consumption, so moving forward when we implement higher-tier versions of existing content and make adjustments to content levels we would like to adopt the method of adding new equipment rewards.

Basically we will not be making it so you need to have older equipment to obtain the new equipment, and for the exceptions where you can upgrade and there are requirements to exchange existing equipment, we feel it necessary to make it easier to obtain the original item as well as have a way to recover the items if they were thrown away.

In regards to inventory expansion, just as Yoji Fujito has commented here, it is being investigated, but we need to create a new system from scratch and it will take some time.

this is for your further information: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/34679-Item-Levels?highlight=Delve+matsui

[Camiie]

So you're totally against them upgrading delve 1.0 and would rather toss that shit then upgrade it if they actually put a system in place right?

If I was against it you wouldn't be asking that question, because I would have said so.


Because that is what you're arguing against.

No, I only called out your flawed reasoning and expectations.


I bet if they upgraded it tomorrow you'd be the first person standing in line to get it done.

Maybe. I'll do whatever is within my power and patience to improve my character today and worry about tomorrow when it comes. I will simply do so with the realization that something better/cheaper/easier will be along soon. Welcome to the world of MMOs.


I'm trying to offer something constructive for the community and you're trying to tear it down. Well good for you

The only thing I've torn down is your unreasonable expectation that because you spent a lot on something it should remain relevant in perpetuity.

[predatory]

I don't really care anymore, the devs can go to hell because I won't be doing anything with an upgrade path in the future, If i Doi delve it'll be for accessories. I'll just concentrate of job specific gear, and maybe that occasional niche piece that offers a boost to a stat i'm after. No more delve weapons for me

[Demonjustin]

Predatory, Stompa, when I said you're seeming to complain about the augments I mean that you've repeatedly brought up this 30M that you spent on augments as a reason for why they should be upgraded. My point was if the augments are wiped, what've you gotten? Yay, you got upgraded Mikinaak, but your Airlixir are wasted all the same because the augment is gone. This was the conflictory statement that is why I was basically arguing against it, because it seems pointless to say you're mad you wasted all those Airlixir but if they upgraded the gear and wasted them in a more permanent way that you'd be happy. In either case, I hope they do upgrade these sets at some point, having Bokwus Legs on top again would make me happy since Mes'yohi aren't obtainable(no one does the fight).

As for Stompa specifically, it's not the fix you're looking for but /lockstyle will at least let you keep the same look of Mikinaak if that's what you're after in the end. Still have to waste inventory on it which sucks but it's a work around. Can just throw the set in a macro on it's own, the 5 pieces and /lockstyle then use your normal macros to change back to your normal gear.

[Damane]

I know how to build lockstyle macros and normal battle gear macros too. That wasn't the point.



Please, please read my last post, in which I spelled out - just for you - the points I've been making from the start.

I said I would like to have the finished 119 armor sets, and don't mind spending more on them. Also I don't see why they would wipe the augs since they are universal upgrades (same for everyone) and not randomly generated augments (unique to player). But even if they wiped the upgrade augments, I have said I don't mind spending more to upgrade the finished 119 piece. What I mind are the pieces being stuck at 110 and loaded with lixirs, since that is a waste. Being 119 and loaded with (new or old) lixirs is not a waste because I can use the armor and that means it was not a waste. The money is only wasted if I'm not using the gear that I farmed just a year ago. And I spent a long time farming Delve on WHM, on WHM, which is stressful and joyless and miserable and I did that for months to get my gear - which is now useless.

Read the words in my last post slowly. A five-year-old can understand them. Go fetch a five-year-old to explain it to you.

as Devs have pointed out, and i feel the same way like other players. haveing to carry OLD gear around just for upgrades really clusterfucks your inventory to shit. So i really would like that they keep theri take on (as quoted from me on matsui) to toss old gear and go further with no upgradeing gear, ecxept in special occasions (AF Relic Empy). So in all honesty, just let that gear DIAF plox.

[Demonjustin]

I know how to build lockstyle macros and normal battle gear macros too. That wasn't the point.
If you want to know the truth, I've been a huge fan of the original Robocop film since the 1980's, and Mikinaak set looks a lot like the original Robocop. Also the stats were really nice, a year ago when lvl 110 meant something.Trying to help someone for naught it seems.


Please, please read my last post, in which I spelled out - just for you - the points I've been making from the start.

I said I would like to have the finished 119 armor sets, and don't mind spending more on them. Also I don't see why they would wipe the augs since they are universal upgrades (same for everyone) and not randomly generated augments (unique to player). But even if they wiped the upgrade augments, I have said I don't mind spending more to upgrade the finished 119 piece. What I mind are the pieces being stuck at 110 and loaded with lixirs, since that is a waste. Being 119 and loaded with (new or old) lixirs is not a waste because I can use the armor and that means it was not a waste. The money is only wasted if I'm not using the gear that I farmed just a year ago. And I spent a long time farming Delve on WHM, on WHM, which is stressful and joyless and miserable and I did that for months to get my gear - which is now useless.

Read the words in my last post slowly. A five-year-old can understand them. Go fetch a five-year-old to explain it to you.While you've made this clear now, it's not something that takes away from what I said. I simply reiterated my point that it's why I made my arguments in the first place. I wasn't saying that you specifically care now, but it's how you originally came across, which is why I said what I did. If you don't care about the airlixirs then so be it, but if you constantly bring up a 30M price tag you threw at the weapons or armor to make it better you only serve to make it sound like this is at least part of the issue you have. When it's repeated multiple times and the price tag on that one part is easily the majority of the cost, and then you're also talking about refunds for airlixirs for your gear. Be it your intention or not, the airlixirs do come across as a large part of the issue, which is why my objections were based on that.

[predatory]

thats not quiet true, there are still some nices pieces out there, yumcax club comes to mind and some other pieces from morimar etc. also alot of people have gotten what they wanted from WKR. this is also the reason why they will add NEW gear to WKR again (for the 2. time)

I think you have a misconception about the ilvl system, the ilvl stystem is a steping stone, you climb up the ilvl system to reach ilvl 119, all gear inbetween 99-119 are steping stones (some still remain very good or best in place at 119) to help you push through harder stuff until you reach ilvl 119.

the steping stones are somethign like this (i cant remember the post of matsui):

bayld gear 1.0
WKR reive gear 1.0
skirmish weapons 1.0
bayld gear 2.0
AF Relic gear 109
delve gear 1.0 (non ilvl 119)
skimrish weapons and gear 2.0
WKR gear weapons 2.0 (ilvl 115)
Oboro weapons (port jeuno ilvl 119)
skirmish 3.0
AF and Relic 119
AAs hardmissions 119
delve 2.0 and delve 1.0 (ilvl 119)

in this order (or similir to this order)

this also means that gear/weapons aquired from steps inbetween will become unavoidable useless in most cases and that was stated from matsui himself, that it is a steping process. He also posted a similar list to this where which event ties in.

the only ecxeptions on that list are skirmish weapons/armor and AF Relic which are upgradeable to ilvl 119. Which makes sense because if you would make everythign upgradeable you would have a clusterfuck of an inventory.

this was said allready on the release of delve 1.0

some quotes: (this was on january 2014)



this is for your further information: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/34679-Item-Levels?highlight=Delve+matsui

But the way it really works is bayld to skirmish to skirmish 2 and i level 119 to maybe delve 2, but certainly the hard mode battlefields.

And with the bayld set, that's really only if that's your first skirmish job, making even the bayld shit irrelevant after the first time through, so, bayld, most of wkr, and delve 1, all but useless because the devs couldn't stop trying to make this game into a theme park game, until there was a massive uproar about it.

Skirmish is fine, but I don' understand how gear that takes a few minutes to obtain should outshine gear that takes a more long term investment (in terms of both time and gil), to recieve. The logic is faulty.