Atma

[Linh]

What is generally a good combination for Atma on Monk? Atma of the Voracious Violet seems like it's always a given, so what should the other two be?

1. Atma of the Apocalypse + Atma of the Lion

2. Atma of the Apocalypse + Atma of the Razed Ruins

3. Atma of the Razed Ruins + Atma of the Stout Arm

[Corwin]

AoA + Razed Ruins + Gnarled Horn

[Swords]

Generally depends on what your doing.

Pure DD = Voracious Violet + Stout Arm + Razed Ruins

Tanking = Gnarled Horn/Roaring Laughter + Raized Ruins + Apocalypse

Triggering = Voracious Violet + Sea Daughter + Apocalypse/Bludgeoning Brute/Sundering Slash/Would-be-King

Soloing generally varies on what your fighting.

[Kyte]

Generally depends on what your doing.

Pure DD = Voracious Violet + Stout Arm + Razed Ruins



Waaat? That's a terrible combo for Monk.

Best DD combo for MNK is pretty much the same as the best Tanking combo- RR+AoA+GH, although for pure DD A&O might beat out GH.

[Dfoley]

AoA + RR + GH (good for non ws builds)
VV + RR + GH (good for VS ws builds)
AoA + VV + RR (semi decent)


As far as stout arm or Lion, <No Thank You>

[MarkovChain]

I use dark depth instead of GH for farming either nq drops or light since the mobs can't touch you in the first place so counterstance 100% useless. Visions NMs have hard a time hitting you too, it's counterproductive to use CC imo.

[Swords]

Waaat? That's a terrible combo for Monk.

Best DD combo for MNK is pretty much the same as the best Tanking combo- RR+AoA+GH, although for pure DD A&O might beat out GH.

I admit I was not thinking about using h2h weapons at the time and I did fail to mention I tend to fulltime Footwork with the 2-4 hit Ursine Claws +2. Since the maximum you can kick per round is twice and the proc. rate for the claws go off so often having AoA for triple attack almost becomes moot where it serves no other purpose melee wise. I'm aware VV gives double attack however its STR and Rregain bonuses make it better than most other atmas. Anyways, the setup is not nearly as bad as you might give it credit for from a pure DD standpoint, its nice to occasionally break out a 700+ critical kick, and 3k+ WS's without the Emp WS. However yes it does suck if your using your h2h weapon, where the Double and Triple attack would have a more profound impact on your damage.

[Greatguardian]

GH + RR + Apoc or VV + RR + Apoc.

Both atma combos are about even in offensive power, so picking between GH and VV really depends on what you're going to be doing. GH has solid defensive properties, and VV has regain if you plan to be doing a lot of running around.

I'm not sure why Pchan is talking about Cross-Counters or trying to suggest that Counterstance is useless, but just ignore him to be safe. Fulltiming Counterstance and using /WAR is also a safe, powerful combination.

[MarkovChain]

GH is useless since sometimes
1) NQ mobs can't hit you so you don't counter them or almost never.
2) counter caps at 80% so counterstance + full merit + AF2 feet is 75% already meaning this weapon is only ~5% increase to your counter damage which is like 5% of your total damage at the very best, and this is assuming that (for some reason) you don't nearly cap the last 5%. => even if you use counterstance the returns are worth zero.
PS : level BLM already

[Neisan_Quetz]

Dealing more damage from counters is useless, gotcha. Quite ironic coming from someone who advocated fulltiming it at 75, back when healers had finite mp and less refresh options.

EDIT: even ignoring the counter increase gnarled really isn't any different from Dark Depths, either is a fair choice if you don't have A/O and/or have a problem with -hp (for AF, for Smite VV does better than GH/DD).

[Mojo]

+20% critical hit rate etc.

[Zagen]

2) counter caps at 80% so counterstance + full merit + AF2 feet is 75% already meaning this weapon is only ~5% increase to your counter damage which is like 5% of your total damage at the very best, and this is assuming that (for some reason) you don't nearly cap the last 5%. => even if you use counterstance the returns are worth zero.
PS : level BLM already
Source? Because last I knew/found test wise counter is only capped by acc cap meaning a 95% cap if you can get 100% Counter.

Also AGI for more subtle blow reducing TP moves used even further is nice, and the 20% more Crits is nice as well.

/WAR Atmas = AoA/RR/GH

/DNC Atmas = AoA/RR/MC

If I'm there for reds from staff/club then I swap GH or MC for VV

[MarkovChain]

Like ... err, Dark depth.

[MarkovChain]

Dealing more damage from counters is useless, gotcha.


what is 5% increase of 5% ?

answer : 0.25 %. It's the same thing as nothing . 1 attack is better. Now if you ask me if it is better on a mob where evasion is shit or /nin is need, ok of course. Counter is for tanking nothing else.



Quite ironic coming from someone who advocated fulltiming it at 75, back when healers had finite mp and less refresh options.



at 75 /nin was neccessary, and evasion was shit. You asked for easy mode, now you have it. Perma ~+100 agi or something similar, low level mobs. Trying too hard.

[Swords]

GN is good in it's own ways, however no one truly knows the cap rate for counter or critical hit rate. I really want to say Counter caps at 80% however, with merits (+5), relic feet (+10), Counterstance (+40-50 depending on source), Traits (+5-10 if Counter II really exsists), GN (Assumed +10), Roaring Laughter (Assumed +20), and capped Acc. I still find it difficult to get away with countering even 90% of the time.

Quick Edit: You should keep in mind counter has it's fair share of drawbacks to its advantages, such as feeding it TP equal to your TP gain + 3 for each counter. Counter also doesnt defend from Ranged, AoE, or TP moves so when your using Counterstance and your defense is crapped out you've hardly got anything protecting you.

But I digress, as with anything in this game there is a point where too much of any one stat can be counterproductive. It's what I like to call the Decaying effect, its where you put soo much into one aspect you hurt yourself in others that make you a better overall player. For a quick example, lets say you have tons of accuracy enough to cap on anything you fight. However, in doing so you chose to sacrifice a slot for a core damage piece that would let you do an extra 10-20 damage per attack for a slight increase in Accuracy. Now mathmatically speaking the extra damage you do would well offset the difference in accuracy you lost, however it's the mindset of many players to go with the full on aspect in the game and end up hurting themselves in the end.

[Mojo]

The cap for critical hit rate is 95% (Mighty Strikes will circumvent this.) I have observed this many times on NIN with RR/GH/Innin. GH is desirable because of 20% critical hit rate, the Counter is really just a bonus.

[Corwin]

Pchan is the Gordian's Knot of stupidity.

[MarkovChain]

GN is good in it's own ways, however no one truly knows the cap rate for counter or critical hit rate. .

Yes we do 80% for counter. Appie made a thread on BG or alla I think.

[Greatguardian]

Yes we do 80% for counter. Appie made a thread on BG or alla I think.

This is correct.

But what is your point? Dark Depths over Gnarled Horn because... AGI+ Minor and Eva+ Minor are better than AGI+ Major and Counter+? There is practically no difference in the Eva both Atmas give you, Gnarled Horn is more likely to cap your Subtle Blow dAGI, and Gnarled Horn also has the Offensive and Defensive edge with Counter. Dark Depths will never be "better" than Gnarled Horn.

I'm not sure what you're evading all the time either. You're probably still fighting Visions mobs trying to catch up to everyone else. That or you're still using full Usukane or something equally outdated. Evasion making "Counter useless" is just wrong. Use Aggressor, "Suck Less".

[Kyte]

I admit I was not thinking about using h2h weapons at the time and I did fail to mention I tend to fulltime Footwork with the 2-4 hit Ursine Claws +2. Since the maximum you can kick per round is twice and the proc. rate for the claws go off so often having AoA for triple attack almost becomes moot where it serves no other purpose melee wise. I'm aware VV gives double attack however its STR and Rregain bonuses make it better than most other atmas. Anyways, the setup is not nearly as bad as you might give it credit for from a pure DD standpoint, its nice to occasionally break out a 700+ critical kick, and 3k+ WS's without the Emp WS. However yes it does suck if your using your h2h weapon, where the Double and Triple attack would have a more profound impact on your damage.

You can hit 3k+ WS with Ascetic's Fury without gimping your TP phase damage.

[MarkovChain]

Gnarled Horn is more likely to cap your Subtle Blow dAGI, and Gnarled Horn also has the Offensive and Defensive edge with Counter.

Because when yout are farming pops on NQ mobs your DEFINITELY caring about TP spam. I would like to know what kind of NQ mob can do a single TP move while you kill it. Trying too hard, again.





That or you're still using full Usukane or something equally outdated.
So you lost the argument and try to discuss gear now ? w



Evasion making "Counter useless" is just wrong. Use Aggressor, "Suck Less".
lawl

[Corwin]

The classic pchan NOU backpedal. w

[Greatguardian]

I'm still trying to figure out what makes Dark Depths better than Gnarled Horn when the difference is literally "Do you want a Counter Bonus? Yes/No". The evasion is hardly any different. There are no other offensive or defensive stats on Dark Depths. The only plausible difference is that Pchan has Dark Depths but hasn't bothered to get Gnarled Horn. In which case, gtfo.

[Gokku]

good god you people act like this is rocket science atmas = Apoc / GH / RR *end of discussion* AoA is a good apoco sub. Pchan has no idea what there talking about and the sword guy still using footwork at 90 is a sign he shouldn't be on monk either. please keep the level of down syndrome in the monk section to a reasonable level. and just to clear up why not VV for victory smite, if you have a decent WS set your already damn near or capped on STR.

[magnius]

good god you people act like this is rocket science atmas = Apoc / GH / RR *end of discussion* AoA is a good apoco sub. Pchan has no idea what there talking about and the sword guy still using footwork at 90 is a sign he shouldn't be on monk either. please keep the level of down syndrome in the monk section to a reasonable level. and just to clear up why not VV for victory smite, if you have a decent WS set your already damn near or capped on STR.

lol!
abcdefg

[Greatguardian]

good god you people act like this is rocket science atmas = Apoc / GH / RR *end of discussion* AoA is a good apoco sub. Pchan has no idea what there talking about and the sword guy still using footwork at 90 is a sign he shouldn't be on monk either. please keep the level of down syndrome in the monk section to a reasonable level. and just to clear up why not VV for victory smite, if you have a decent WS set your already damn near or capped on STR.

Er, WSC doesn't ever cap, but I appreciate the sentiment nonetheless.