So i leeched my job to 90 in abyssea

[Tenshibaby]

You're the one who said he was only using one sword.~

Go back and re-read, and try to muster up all the brain cells you can.

[Kazen]

Oh boy, a ring useful for 5 levels.

[SNK]

Go back and re-read, and try to muster up all the brain cells you can.


By your logic I could mock you only having one weapon equipped.

Maat's Cap says wut?

[Neisan_Quetz]

Except the only mid level job you have is 39 Cor according to FFXIAH... so why do you still have it.

[Tenshibaby]

Well 5 levels soloing and actually leveling my job rather than running around Abyssea in lvl 1 RSE it is actually a VERY good ring, not that you would know.

[SNK]

Except the only mid level job you have is cor according to FFXIAH... so why do you still have it.

Because he's been backed into a corner and knows that he's just either arguing just to troll people or he's really that dumb.

[Ramsos]

So having full AF3+2 is indicative of skill, yet Maat's cap means you lack skill, and getting to 90 from below 65 in Abyssea gives the presumption of true prowess at your job?

Is this Wonderland, where up is down and left is right and Greatguardian lives up to his name?

Maats cap doesnt mean you do or dont have skill, all it means is that you spend a ridiculous amount of time leveling jobs. With af3+2, you at least have to fight monster types harder than collibri. Nothing in abyssea is truly "hard", but 5/5 af3+2 is a bigger accomplishment than useless maats cap and any amount of useless af2 gear.

[Tenshibaby]

Maat's Cap says wut?
The "by your logic" is a very, very important component of the sentence. Guess you couldn't muster up enough cells.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Who is running around in level 1 RSE? No one who doesn't suck, just in your imagination.

[SNK]

The "by your logic" is a very, very important component of the sentence. Guess you couldn't muster up enough cells.

I'm just pretty much following your own selective logic which pretty much amounts to nothing. Maat's Cap isn't a sign of skill, it's a sign of you spent a ton of time leveling a lot of jobs. But hey you can't be wrong even tho everyone here has told you otherwise.

Right?

[Tenshibaby]

Maats cap doesnt mean you do or dont have skill, all it means is that you spend a ridiculous amount of time leveling jobs. With af3+2, you at least have to fight monster types harder than collibri. Nothing in abyssea is truly "hard", but 5/5 af3+2 is a bigger accomplishment than useless maats cap and any amount of useless af2 gear.

I could have 5 sets of full A3+2 in less time than you could get Maat's cap. I could have the other 15 full sets in less time than you could get 80 pieces of relic gear. Also, I never said that Maat's proves skill, but all you guys have done is to use it to somehow call my skill into question, which is just STUPID. "Oh he has Maat's cap... he must not be good at any job. But we have AF3+2, which means killing a mob harder than a colibri! We must be good!"

I don't really care for Abyssea, not just the lack of skill required to advance in it, but the whole "easy mode" aspect that has rendered non-Abyssa activities all but pointless. Is it any question I wouldn't be obsessed with AF3+2?

[Tenshibaby]

Who is running around in level 1 RSE? No one who doesn't suck, just in your imagination.
Lots of leeches. Therefore, you agree with me that leeches suck. And SNK likes to pretend nobody has agreed with me!

[SNK]

I don't really care for Abyssea, not just the lack of skill required to advance in it, but the whole "easy mode" aspect that has rendered non-Abyssa activities all but pointless. Is it any question I wouldn't be obsessed with AF3+2?

Even with decent Atmas some shit in Abyessa can still kick your ass if you get stupid. Case in point watching an 18 man ally wipe to Sedna which my own static took down with 5.

And there's no pretending at all. The last several pages is you make baseless claims with nothing to back them up along with you trying to say how awesome your RDM several pages earlier along with before that you saying anyone who leeched a job to 90 in abyessa has no skill whatsoever which is dumb in itself.

It comes down the the player behind the character and the sooner you realize that, the sooner you can get off the highhorse you're sitting on.

Silly people I swear...

[Neisan_Quetz]

I agree that anyone who can't figure out this game prior to leeching sucks, I don't agree with you because you somehow believe the game doesn't work by mathematical formulas that have been tried and tested years ago and that somehow leeching means someone can't look up how to play a job. Most DD/Mage jobs are not so completely foreign someone who has played one can't figure out/ask questions about another and do well at it.

Hell some are so easy you can figure out how to DD from meleeing on a mage job...

[Ramsos]

I could have 5 sets of full A3+2 in less time than you could get Maat's cap. I could have the other 15 full sets in less time than you could get 80 pieces of relic gear. Also, I never said that Maat's proves skill, but all you guys have done is to use it to somehow call my skill into question, which is just STUPID. "Oh he has Maat's cap... he must not be good at any job. But we have AF3+2, which means killing a mob harder than a colibri! We must be good!"

I don't really care for Abyssea, not just the lack of skill required to advance in it, but the whole "easy mode" aspect that has rendered non-Abyssa activities all but pointless. Is it any question I wouldn't be obsessed with AF3+2?

You said earlier that the only job you gearswap on is bst, that calls your lack of skill into question far more than any lack of af3+2 gear.

[SNK]

You said earlier that the only job you gearswap on is bst, that calls your lack of skill into question far more than any lack of af3+2 gear.

Careful now dude. If you keep this up you're going to back him into a corner he can't charm himself out of.

[Tenshibaby]

you make baseless claims with nothing to back them up along with you trying to say how awesome your RDM several pages earlier along with before that you saying anyone who leeched a job to 90 in abyessa has no skill whatsoever which is dumb in itself.
Another reading comprehension fail. Can I subscribe to your posts?

[SNK]

Another reading comprehension fail. Can I subscribe to your posts?

If it helps you suck less by means. ^-^

[HFX7686]

Tenshibaby, you quite possibly have the worst reading comprehension skills I have yet encountered on this board.

Haste is good. Gear swapping is good.

You can work yourself to being a good player from those two points.

[Tenshibaby]

You said earlier that the only job you gearswap on is bst,
I did? Wow... Your lack of reading comprehension is pretty sorry too. Aren't you one of the ones who tries to argue about researching, etc? How can you research with such poor reading comprehension? I said I use swapping macros, and that it is almost required on BST. I DID NOT say I only use it on BST. No wonder you need things spoon-fed to you.

[Tenshibaby]

Tenshibaby, you quite possibly have the worst reading comprehension skills I have yet encountered on this board.

Haste is good. Gear swapping is good.

You can work yourself to being a good player from those two points.
See? Set the bar really low and you can sail over it. This is your motto, apparently, and you have YET to show an example of where my reading comprehension failed. Perhaps it is your own that has failed and led you to this erroneous conclusion?

[Ramsos]

As for gear swapping, it's really not a redeeming quality of the game. I do use it (on BST it is almost required, not that you'd know).


If I read this wrong, then fine I am wrong. But after seeing your ffxiah account where you are actually wearing maats cap(among other questionable gear choices), I stand by my judgement that you do not gearswap.

[RaenRyong]

it's okay guys, no matter how much I suck I HAVE RELIC GEAR

[Tenshibaby]

1234567890

You re-read that and still come to the conclusion that I am saying I only use it on BST?
Epic fail.

[Karbuncle]

Guys we can stop now. I think I finally understand it.

Its clear that if you don't kill Crabs, Pugils, Crawlers, or Colibri for 90 levels, You will always suck at your job no matter what. Either you get 5kexp/hr, Or you're a terrible player. Anything higher than 5k is Witchcraft the lowers your I.Q

[Tenshibaby]

"Yeah I use this so people don't troll me: Maat: 03/06/07; 21:10PM. 1/2. ~ 75 Dark Knight - 27/07/07 ~ 75 Paladin - 13/01/08 ~ 75 Thief - 22/06/08 ~ 75 Red Mage - 28/02/09 ~ 75 Dragoon - 12/08/09 ~ Full Homam - 21/12/2008 ~ "

"Yeah, that's right. When people say I suck, I just smile and send them a link to my FFXIAH page. When they see the precise times and dates I beat Maat and hit 75, they're all like 'Whoah! I guess he doesn't suck, despite how he plays!' Then I accuse other people of being stuck in the past..."

Face it: you guys are dreaming if you think your skills hold up after leeching in Abyssea. By your logic, I see you wouldn't know skill if it slapped you upside the head. Now go ahead and blah blah blah about how you can't understand posts yet are awesome at jobs because you read a few forum posts on it. I'm done wasting my time on you, and it is depressing seeing more evidence of the deterioration of the game, and seeing it cheered on by more people who think they deserve their levels AND DON'T.

[rog]

Guys we can stop now. I think I finally understand it.

Its clear that if you don't kill Crabs, Pugils, Crawlers, or Colibri for 90 levels, You will always suck at your job no matter what. Either you get 5kexp/hr, Or you're a terrible player. Anything higher than 5k is Witchcraft the lowers your I.Q
Finally you understand.

[Ramsos]

You re-read that and still come to the conclusion that I am saying I only use it on BST?
Epic fail.

Look at the gear you are wearing on your ffxiah profile page. If you can tell me with a straight face that there is nothing wrong with the majority of what you are wearing, you are a terrible player and probably fulltime that garbage.

[Rambus]

Your ability to get gear in this game is a test of patience more than anything. Some things require help and you thank the people for it.

I am not sure how to actually gauge skill then actually playing with the person or see them in action

I also don't understand how someone knew this other guy only got 2 emp gear +2

[RaenRyong]

"Yeah I use this so people don't troll me: Maat: 03/06/07; 21:10PM. 1/2. ~ 75 Dark Knight - 27/07/07 ~ 75 Paladin - 13/01/08 ~ 75 Thief - 22/06/08 ~ 75 Red Mage - 28/02/09 ~ 75 Dragoon - 12/08/09 ~ Full Homam - 21/12/2008 ~ "

"Yeah, that's right. When people say I suck, I just smile and send them a link to my FFXIAH page. When they see the precise times and dates I beat Maat and hit 75, they're all like 'Whoah! I guess he doesn't suck, despite how he plays!' Then I accuse other people of being stuck in the past..."

And this is why I keep that somewhat nooby thingy in my ffxiah thing. It's amusing watching retarded people try to troll me with it.

And you are stupidly retarded. One of the worst players I have ever known. You disgrace to a Maat's Cap.

[Rambus]

And this is why I keep that somewhat nooby thingy in my ffxiah thing. It's amusing watching retarded people try to troll me with it.

And you are stupidly retarded. One of the worst players I have ever known. You disgrace to a Maat's Cap.

That fits like 90% of the people though lest that is the social stigma. i hate it when people play that card on me.
though I forget why someone said that to me, been a really long time.

[RaenRyong]

Your ability to get gear in this game is a test of patience more than anything. Some things require help and you thank the people for it.

I am not sure how to actually gauge skill then actually playing with the person or see them in action

I also don't understand how someone knew this other guy only got 2 emp gear +2

Find name, Equip History on FFXIAH. While not perfect it is likely that if you have some +2 gear you will at some point be wearing it.

And while it is hard to gauge skill absolutely, it is obvious from someone who says Haste sucks and other stupid things that they are bottom of the barrel.

[Ramsos]

Anyone else think that tenshibaby totally derailed this thread just because he had no answer on what song combo is better than march/march?

[Tenshibaby]

And you are stupidly retarded. One of the worst players I have ever known. You disgrace to a Maat's Cap.

Really strong words for a weak boy. Face it: if you guys had something better to go on than picking on a thrown-together-quickly set of gear (I haven't played BST in months) or posts you seem to intentionally misunderstand, you would have nothing to attack me on. Have fun pretending that I suck and that you are good players. I'm out for real this time! =)

P.S. I never said Haste sucks, but I guess you have to pretend. I just said BRD's who think March/March is ALWAYS the way to go suck.

[Rambus]

http://www.ffxiah.com/search/player?sid=1&name=rambus

well thats me no idea how to see what gear i used though

http://www.ffxiah.com/screenshots/55527
i like that pic


Anyone else think that tenshibaby totally derailed this thread just because he had no answer on what song combo is better than march/march?

oh yeah thats funny

[RaenRyong]

No problem, it's quite easy to "pretend".

Maat's Cap owners, I'm sorry that you lot are represented so poorly in this thread by this guy who didn't earn his levels.

[RaenRyong]

http://www.ffxiah.com/search/player?sid=1&name=rambus

well thats me no idea how to see what gear i used though

You need to have signed up for LScommunity and/or Guildwork and link to your FFXIAH account!

[HFX7686]

See? Set the bar really low and you can sail over it. This is your motto, apparently, and you have YET to show an example of where my reading comprehension failed. Perhaps it is your own that has failed and led you to this erroneous conclusion?

Your reply is an excellent example of reading comprehension failure.

[RaenRyong]

tl;dr version of the thread:

* Tenshibaby comes in sprouting his Maat's Cap ego
* Tenshibaby says March x2 sucks and is for "Haste whores"
* When asked to provide a superior song choice, Tenshibaby is unable to
* Tenshibaby tries to make up maths!
* Tenshibaby gets called out on this and conveniently ignores this
* Tenshibaby is actually a horrid gimp (huge twist in the tale)
then boring stuff.

[Karbuncle]

On a bright side not all Maat's Cap owners are the same :\

I got my Maat's cap about the same time MMM Exp became popular. Not a single one Abyssea Leveled. However, Since Abyssea i've taken several of the jobs i left at 66 to 90 just because i enjoyed playing them! I love both sides of the exp options.

That being said, Its obviously ... someone... Is quite upset their Maat's cap is no longer as unique as it used to be. Me, I could care less. The reward I got from Maats cap was experiencing the game from all aspects. Being able to level those jobs and meet new friends along the way, not the Cap itself. Back at 75 it was the best on-slot for some jobs in certain ways (WS/etc), But I'm not jaded that its become obsolete like... well, you know.

Either way, This thread is Entirely Too degraded now, Only a matter of time until its Nuked and/or a lot of posts are Ka-boomed.

[Rambus]

On a bright side not all Maat's Cap owners are the same :\

I got my Maat's cap about the same time MMM Exp became popular. Not a single one Abyssea Leveled. However, Since Abyssea i've taken several of the jobs i left at 66 to 90 just because i enjoyed playing them! I love both sides of the exp options.

That being said, Its obviously ... someone... Is quite upset their Maat's cap is no longer as unique as it used to be. Me, I could care less. The reward I got from Maats cap was experiencing the game from all aspects. Being able to level those jobs and meet new friends along the way, not the Cap itself. Back at 75 it was the best on-slot for some jobs in certain ways (WS/etc), But I'm not jaded that its become obsolete like... well, you know.

Either way, This thread is Entirely Too degraded now, Only a matter of time until its Nuked and/or a lot of posts are Ka-boomed.


I care, maats cap was an inv saver, now twlight helm is better then it for some jobs -.-

[Frost]

Some people just look for easy trends to latch onto like the latest fad. "Stick with this until the crowd changes its mind". Spam ACC... no, wait, STR now! Wait, Haste!

Spam ACC: Back then SE was really against people actually hitting things for some reason... Then they gave use sushi, and eventually better gear, making Accuracy a non-issue.

Spam STR: This has only been an issue in WS builds. The only call to "Spam Str" was if you were a thief meleeing HNM and hitting zeros. Other than that if you were meleeing in STR gear where there was no Haste, Double/Triple Attack or Store TP, sure, why not tilt the STR vs VIT curve. But those slots were pretty filled. (I.E. no real reason to "Gear for STR")

Spam Haste: "Current Trend" BUT always has been the Top Priority and desire of any melee that knew anything since day one. It's only recently become extremely available and readily accessible. It's not a "Trend" per se...

You're talking about a scale that you dont' seem to comprehend even when it's been posted repeatedly, Yes, 70 Attack on 700 is 10%. But if you're already close to cap on attack it means nothing. adding 7% haste adds in upwards of 20% more hits, 20% more weaponskills, depending on how much existing haste you already got. Even you can see 20% is greater than 10% right? And I am being conservative.

If someone had 0 haste in gear, and no haste casted in them, I MIGHT be able to argue for March/Minuet, but my argument would be more like "Why are you on 0% haste and why isn't the mage hasting people?"

The key factors here are:

1) Haste gets more powerful the more of it you got.
2) Haste very recently because readily available and easily accessible.
3) More people have haste upping the value of haste from other sources (Magic, Marches, Sambas, Etc.)

If it still doesn't make sense read the post linked in my sig.

[Glamdring]

A note about gear swapping. As any bard knows, we are gear whores. Until you get a relic horn and the recently added harp of uberness you will be carrying ALOT of stuff, and to do swaps it all needs to be in your active inventory, not sack/satchel. You will generally have at least 1 instrument for every category of songs, at least until you reach the 80+ level and start getting some of the Aby instruments that enhance more than 1 class of songs each... if you can manage to get them. You may even have both a horn AND harp for some songs if you need to control range/radius. Most bards also use at least a few of the elemental staves. I'm an elvan, so once I hit 50 I also needed to carry MP gear to be able to assist healing and raising after wipes (which requires a food buff too, at least before I got my relic pants at 80). Don't expect alot of room for anything else. You really do need most of those instruments, as the +whatever is generally very apparent (except Requiem, by the time you get +Requiem almost everything is immune, except other players in PvP).

Please note that this is coming from a guy who very much despises changing out of my base gear configuration, but with bard especially even I concede it is a necessity to effective bard play.


Spam ACC: Back then SE was really against people actually hitting things for some reason... Then they gave use sushi, and eventually better gear, making Accuracy a non-issue.

Spam STR: This has only been an issue in WS builds. The only call to "Spam Str" was if you were a thief meleeing HNM and hitting zeros. Other than that if you were meleeing in STR gear where there was no Haste, Double/Triple Attack or Store TP, sure, why not tilt the STR vs VIT curve. But those slots were pretty filled. (I.E. no real reason to "Gear for STR")

Spam Haste: "Current Trend" BUT always has been the Top Priority and desire of any melee that knew anything since day one. It's only recently become extremely available and readily accessible. It's not a "Trend" per se...

You're talking about a scale that you dont' seem to comprehend even when it's been posted repeatedly, Yes, 70 Attack on 700 is 10%. But if you're already close to cap on attack it means nothing. adding 7% haste adds in upwards of 20% more hits, 20% more weaponskills, depending on how much existing haste you already got. Even you can see 20% is greater than 10% right? And I am being conservative.

If someone had 0 haste in gear, and no haste casted in them, I MIGHT be able to argue for March/Minuet, but my argument would be more like "Why are you on 0% haste and why isn't the mage hasting people?"

The key factors here are:

1) Haste gets more powerful the more of it you got.
2) Haste very recently because readily available and easily accessible.
3) More people have haste upping the value of haste from other sources (Magic, Marches, Sambas, Etc.)

If it still doesn't make sense read the post linked in my sig.

I haven't read all of the posts on here debating the merits of Haste via whatever means. The only thing I can weigh in on is that Haste does have a cap, and it is quite acheivable for most jobs at end-game levels. Because it is so acheivable, the wise player needs to evaluate what they want from us support roles. They may wish to stay with March x2 from us, using the haste we give to allow them to gear more to another purpose (aim for defense, acc, eva, whatever). Or they may wish to gear to cap Haste themselves and have us boost them in whatever. Against certain mobs they may even want Carols or the like. It's called attention to detail-most newer players don't consider it, but it can have a major impact on strategy.

In fact, since most melee players do gear for haste (for when they don't have access to a good support job) I find it to be much more effective to support those traits not addressed by player gear choice; it does no good to go overkill on Haste (or anything else) if your party can't take a hit, or connect with a hit. Personally, end-game my song combo of choice is to have everyone gear their own haste set and have me either Scherzo|Mambo or Madrigal|Minuet, depending on the mob we face. Of course, with a BAD group it's Hymnus|Paeon, with Hymnus|Mazurka on me to get the hell out, lol.

Don't forget the jackass factor tho'. There is usually at least 1 player who likes to put out awesome numbers and so gears for all-out attack, with nothing to his own survival. That player will be the loudest complainer about how you need to cast "___" song to boost them, will generally ignore strategy and party mechanics in pursuit of a higher damage figure for their records and expect all the healers (including you) to keep them alive through all of this. When they die they'll be screaming that you aren't doing your job (not just about you, "if you didn't suck so much as a tank you could hold hate", "if you just timed your pulls so I could ___", "if you just cured me I could've" in the face of the tank having Doom on them, etc). The good news is they'll usually either leave your party in disgust-with or without a "you all suck" thrown in-or a good pt leader will boot them. Expect to never make everyone happy.

[Elexia]

I abyssea'd my brd from 30-90 in about a day, then spent all day singing and playing a horn for goldfishes in al`taieu. String too I suppose, but eh, I guess harp is good for AoE sleeps/Empyrean? Horn seemed to be better choice in the end.

[Frost]

Stuff.

You seem like you are not an idiot; you use punctuation, paragraph breaks, and properly group your thoughts in those paragraphs. Your heart is in the right place, and I won't rail you on that merit alone.

But you are wrong on quite a few points. And it's mostly due to your self-admitted lack of reading. Read up on haste, and your "Caps" and find out where they are. Once you do that you can come back and see how stupid the statement "it does no good to go overkill on Haste" sounds lol.

For everything else, sure, you could adjust your play-style for failure, but why? If people are as bad as you seem to be able to describe, would it not make more sense to instruct them if you are in possession of a little more knowledge? I'm not going to even bother trying to bullshit you and say find new people to work with, because I assume they're your friends, and there's a level of respect and/or loyalty. But they might listen to reason if you give them the tools, and take away their excuses.

If everyone is properly geared, has haste, and victory march on them. The addition of Advancing march will add at least 23% more attacks, to every single melee in the group, that's a mathematical fact. And if it's "Everyone" then there won't be that one guy pulling hate pissing off the healers, Hate/damage will be balanced as before, there's just going to be higher output.

It's not always the Jackass' fault either. If you got one guy that IS doing everything right, he'd be less of a liability if everyone stepped up their game a little. Instead of toning them down, let the others do more damage to balance out the equation on the upper end. It's like dropping an empyrean Mnk or War in amongst Pink Ninjas... The problem isn't the Empy War or Mnk doing too much damage... It's not about Elitists, or this "Us vs. Them" mentality either. That mentality is just an excuse. If "They" can do it, what's stopping you? Afraid of being lumped in with "those assholes"? C'mon...

Unless you're willing to admit they're better than you. Then you need to man up, and shut up.

[Glamdring]

You seem like you are not an idiot; you use punctuation, paragraph breaks, and properly group your thoughts in those paragraphs. Your heart is in the right place, and I won't rail you on that merit alone.

But you are wrong on quite a few points. And it's mostly due to your self-admitted lack of reading. Read up on haste, and your "Caps" and find out where they are. Once you do that you can come back and see how stupid the statement "it does no good to go overkill on Haste" sounds lol.

For everything else, sure, you could adjust your play-style for failure, but why? If people are as bad as you seem to be able to describe, would it not make more sense to instruct them if you are in possession of a little more knowledge? I'm not going to even bother trying to bullshit you and say find new people to work with, because I assume they're your friends, and there's a level of respect and/or loyalty. But they might listen to reason if you give them the tools, and take away their excuses.

If everyone is properly geared, has haste, and victory march on them. The addition of Advancing march will add at least 23% more attacks, to every single melee in the group, that's a mathematical fact. And if it's "Everyone" then there won't be that one guy pulling hate pissing off the healers, Hate/damage will be balanced as before, there's just going to be higher output.

It's not always the Jackass' fault either. If you got one guy that IS doing everything right, he'd be less of a liability if everyone stepped up their game a little. Instead of toning them down, let the others do more damage to balance out the equation on the upper end. It's like dropping an empyrean Mnk or War in amongst Pink Ninjas... The problem isn't the Empy War or Mnk doing too much damage... It's not about Elitists, or this "Us vs. Them" mentality either. That mentality is just an excuse. If "They" can do it, what's stopping you? Afraid of being lumped in with "those assholes"? C'mon...

Unless you're willing to admit they're better than you. Then you need to man up, and shut up.

My point was not to bash March x2, it was to point out that it isn't the end-all and be-all of casting for bard. Different situations call for different songs (or other actions) from your bard, and party mix/level distribution/relative player power in the party is certainly a "different situation". While March x2 is certainly a viable default it may not be what you want fighting something capable of 1-2 shotting players in your party. Not that bard songs are the only way to address those needs, but if bard is how the party chooses to address those needs then our other songs come into play.

As to my cut and run statement, most experienced players of any skill can quickly get a sense of when a party is infected with "wilfull ignorance"; in other words is incapable of either listening to or acting upon decent, constructive criticism. Some parties are amenable to listening to the voice of experience and/or reason, while some are not. Some players may have simply been carried and not realize the extent to which that distorts their knowledge of how to work in a party. At that point, it's in your best interest to get out before the damage gets too severe. Obviously, I'm speaking of the pick-up party, not my regulars where not only am I assured of a certain skill level, but also a known chemistry.

Now, the jackass point-I make a distinction between a player who is simply over-powerred in relation to the party and one who has only their own interest in mind-the latter is the jackass. An over-powered player (relatively speaking) may need to tone it down to keep a party running smoothly; just because a Dark can do close to 3k damage on a swing doesn't mean they should if they are getting hit for 1/3 of their HP every other second-that's why the dark wasn't designated as the tank in the 1st place. If the dark keeps doing it anyway, while screaming at you to Minuet x2 them or the like then I think we've identified our jackass. In my opinion, the best way to deal with that is to be buffing the rest of the party or pulling the next mob-letting Sir Jackass heal himself via Drain if he's as awesome as he thinks he is. You see, Sir Jackass, by just going all-out with no consideration for his place in the party is monopolizing party resources (healing, buffs, etc), still not getting the job done (win WITHOUT party death, aka downtime), and leaving the rest of the party in the lurch when they die (or prevent healers from keeping the rest of the pt alive to focus on him).

[Greatguardian]

Dark Knight is one of the game's best tanks outside Abyssea.

That said, I could never advocate a good player intentionally underperforming just to keep a group "Balanced". Good players should never, ever have to curtail their ability in order to string along bad players. If the group is unable to function with such an imbalance, it is the responsibility of the bad players to perform better or be replaced. It's really not difficult to perform at a basic level; some people simply refuse to do so, and insist that they're "Good Enough" and want to play their way. When this affects the group's ability to function, it is not the group's responsibility to balance itself for them.

I can say this as both a WHM and an Empyrean DD. If there is a good DD in a group surrounded by crap, the good DD *IS* going to be getting more of the resources; not because they're a jackass and monopolizing them all, but because I'm making a tactical decision to cut out the weakest link first when I need to choose where my MP/Cast-Time goes (WHM can only cast 1 spell at a time no matter how much MP they have). If it's a matter of curing the Ukon War from 50% > 100% or the Pink Ninja from 20% > 70%, I will still cure the Ukon War. I do not care if Pink Ninja Needs Food Badly, it is wholly irresponsible of me to leave the real DD at dangerous levels of HP. If the Ukon War gets 1-shotted from 50% HP because I was curing Pink Ninja, the rest of the party will fall soon after because no one else will be able to properly DD/Tank the NM. Even if that means Pink Ninja dies, it won't affect the group as a whole very much since Ukon War is the one doing all the work anyways.

[Glamdring]

When I speak of over-powering the plainly obvious example is player X has 3 Atmas, full AF3+2 (with the odd Twilight piece, etc) and fully upgraded weapon or the like; they choose to join a pick-up (to player X) group of 90s (party Y), but the 90s are further behind. The Ys are not lazy, they simply had further to go, and still do. X chose to join them, but he's pulling extravagent hate and the rest of the party is unable to keep up with it, leaving everyone vulnerable, including X. X IS going to die, but should I as the healer and/or support for Y allow him to take everyone with him by using up all my MP, etc. when he's going to die anyway? If he chose to fit himself into the slower(although frenetic pace to the Ys) but methodical (and survivable) method the Y party has been using effectively to this point, and is all that group is capable of until they advance further, he survives, too.

I was going to say X can go elsewhere, but he probably can't, that's why he chose to go with the Ys, they were what was available. If he's that powerful he probably has options to make the party better able to contribute (things he can do via SJ or whatnot) or he can help get the players some decent Atma(s) instead of just expecting them to come back when they have it; you have to beat "whatever" BEFORE you can use the Atma. Maybe he can even just relax and enjoy the slightly easier (and less expensive from a consumables standpoint) rate of XP/LP, only taking hate away from the guy leveling his tank when it's necessary to save his life and letting him get his skills up.

Or he can just say "you all suck"... and go on his merry way (and on to my /blist if I'm one of the Ys).

[Greatguardian]

I'm not sure how any good DD is going to be using up more MP than an army of Y's anyways. Any good DD would both kill faster and take less damage than any group of Y's. I one-shot EXP mobs on my Mnk if we're talking about that sort of scenario, and I'm definitely used to going in with 0 support since attacking the same mob as the group is a complete waste of time.

Even if the good DD is not the target of monster aggression, someone else will be. I dare say any group would be worse off trying to heal a retarded PLD/WAR or pink Ninja than a good DD.

[Karbuncle]

I don't understand the whole "X is pulling hate" thing.

if "X" Is the best DD in the party then "X" should be the tank and all the little "Y"WHM's should be curing X. Unless someones talking about inviting Tanks to an exp alliance >___>, In which case "X" has more things to worry about than dying. One of them being forced to gimp himself back to 2003 just so the gimp PLD/WAR in full NQ Empyrean armor can attempt to keep hate over the THF/DNC Spamming Dancing Edge for 200 Damage and the DRG/WAR Using Penta Thrust at 5% on every mob for the 150dmg Ruby killshot.

<___________< These things totally didn't happen to me just recently, nope, just random thoughts!

[Glamdring]

the ability to land a hit doesn't necessarily equate to the ability to take one, all I'm saying. Blm can do a ton of damage, if they are X does that mean we let them tank? Ranger? you see my point, I only spoke of dark because there are 20 jobs in the game, X has to be playing one of them.

[Greatguardian]

Blm should be plenty durable; mages in this game are notoriously stronger than melees when it comes to taking a punch. That is, assuming the mage isn't a total tard. I see your point in theory, but honestly any well geared player is going to have a PDT set and take less damage than any Y-level player no matter what job they're on.

[rog]

the ability to land a hit doesn't necessarily equate to the ability to take one, all I'm saying. Blm can do a ton of damage, if they are X does that mean we let them tank?
I tanked on blm all the time. Between capped pdt/mdt, phalanx, stoneskin, blink, manawall, convert, stun, etc, i had no trouble surviving on blm.

[Fiarlia]

Blm should be plenty durable; mages in this game are notoriously stronger than melees when it comes to taking a punch. That is, assuming the mage isn't a total tard. I see your point in theory, but honestly any well geared player is going to have a PDT set and take less damage than any Y-level player no matter what job they're on.

For further clarification about a mage's ability to take hits, specifically BLM since that was the job mentioned (assuming /RDM):

Mana Wall, Convert, Stoneskin, Phalanx (lol), Blink, Aquaveil, Stun, Gravity, Bind, Sleep, Sleep II, Sleepga, Sleepga II (all sleeps assume no DoTs on the mob), Manafont, easily achievable -50% PDT, easily achievable -50% MDT, and if all of that fails, there's still Enmity Douse to fall back on. Assuming Abyssea, there's also plenty of temp items for a quick heal in a pinch, as well as Soothing Pyxides to constantly renew the timers on all the listed JA's, which means it's possible to have all these tools ready most of the time. And yes, I listed Convert as a defensive tool.

Obviously, not every mage will have all of these tools at their disposal, but a good chunk of them are universal, also, some of the spells listed may not be applicable to certain mobs. The PDT/MDT sets can and are often used as an idle set for most smart mages (likely sprinkled with Refresh gear and possibly Movement speed gear) so the chances of having it equipped during that first OSHI moment are much higher, whereas a DD will likely not change into it until after they've pulled hate.

Most (good) melee's will only have the tools of... a PDT set, perhaps shadows (superior to blink but still not equal to the cumulative effect of everything else mages have), and perhaps a JA (Counterstance, Perfect Counter, Super Jump, some two-hours) and perhaps a Stun WS if they have TP. Quite a big difference there.

[hordecore]

when they going to lower level requirement to level 10? its hard to level up from 10-30 cant find parties in valkrum dunes

[hordecore]

and no parties in qufim island nor kazam so yeah still waiting on lowering the level requirement

[Rambus]

hard to make pts??? abyssea should of been 75 , since everything is abyssea only now it causes lots of problems

but the other issue with that is you can't go back, should never been entery 30, in my view was a very bad idea.

how can you have likes already, do you have a different account??????

[hordecore]

you can like your own posts with the same account i like them all :P

[Rambus]

i don't .....

[hordecore]

poor tarutaru :(

[rog]

you can like your own posts with the same account i like them all :P
All the cool kids do it.

[hordecore]

where are all the parties at cant find any nowdays

[Damane]

he is trolling... check his other threads