A Suggestion From The Pet Job Community: Stop Ignoring Us and Listen To Our Plea.

[Shinron-PUP]

Pet jobs for a long time have been battling tooth and nail with the developers of Final Fantasy to make their job more useful in relevant group content. Whenever any pet job suggestion is made in the Job-Specific forums, we typically either get a obscure response that doesn't really answer the question being asked, or 99.99% of the time we don't get an answer at all. It is understandable that there are relatively few forum respondants: Camate, Gildrein, Forturyino, etc., and they cannot respond personally to all of our comments and concerns; however, even when important topics are mentioned in our threads that really deserve some attention, they seemingly go unheard.

Our suggestion that we're going to give, is something that the pet job community has asked for for a long time that simply hasn't been directly responded to. We ask out of respect that the forum moderators answer this suggestion directly and clearly. Even if doing this suggestion is not possible, we would at least like a single response so that we know that what we're asking has been heard.

As mentioned above, pet jobs have been struggling with being useful in group content for a long time. Summoner, Puppetmaster, Beastmaster, and Dragoon are typically jobs that people have negative connotations with and a bias against because in all of their history they have been pretty useless jobs besides in solo content. The reason why they are so solo oriented is because other players have no way to help another player's pet.

As a way to fix this problem, we suggest that all pet jobs should be able to be assisted in following ways by their masters as well as by other players:


Summons, Automatons, Beasts, and Dragoon pets should be able to

* Be cured with Healing Magic and Waltzes by anyone

* Have any enhancing magic casted on them including protect, shell, haste, etc.

* Receive any type of buff such as Bard songs, Corsair rolls, & Geomancy effects

Additionally, pets should be able to:

* Receive food effects from the food used by their master and or by pet specific foods



A large concern with pet jobs are that they easily die in high level group content, and typically can't even hit these high level enemies.
With the following adjustments made to pet jobs, they will become more useful in group content because players will be able to keep their pets alive as well as buff them so that they can hit accurately and deal damage more efficiently.

It can be almost guaranteed that with this type of adjustment, the large disparity between pet jobs and normal jobs in group content will be minimized much greater than before, and we will see these type of jobs more actively played in general.

This suggestion is a very important concern by many players who play pet jobs and we urge the forum moderators to not let this be another one of the suggestions they don't respond to. Even if this suggestion is not possible, please let us know regardless so that we know that our concerns are being heard.

Edit: After reading through the comments made in this thread, I wanted to also add foods to the list of suggestions that the pet community would like to see put into action for our pets.

[Jinzha]

I agree with the OP. If you can cure and buff trust NPCs, which are pretty much just pets, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to cure an actual pet. I don't see the difference. With the "Ease of Life in Vana'diel" mantra going, I think this would be an appropriate addition to pet jobs which is not necessarily game breaking.

[Olor]

Yes please. The huge difference in damage dealing potential between pet jobs and other jobs is largely because they cannot be buffed and if we want to cure them, it is either super expensive (dawn mulsim) or on a long timer (reward/repair). It's bad enough that our pets get very few buffs from gear - the fact that they can't benefit from all the buffs players receive mean we fall very far behind in group content.

[Ravenmore]

Yea its not like beast can solo 95% of all NM's as is.... Sure why not make them stronger? :rolleyes:

Grim~

Very few of the NMs in the non-SoA areas game matter and the ones that do any job can solo some even faster and safer then bst so you have no ground to stand on with that BS.

Another thing is they need to add a filter for pet WS animations, wyverns are the main problem as close to the same level ass the mobs beening fought and when breath attacks go off they can be mistaken for mob tp moves or were you can filter the pets out entirely. Whats the point of having a pet out at all if the stunners are just going to force ou to dismiss it.

[Brightshadow]

*SE looks at this thread.....* *SE sticks this suggestion into the ignore folder*

[Alhanelem]

Yea its not like beast can solo 95% of all NM's as is.... Sure why not make them stronger? :rolleyes:

Grim~
It's a matter of efficiency. Just because you can do it solo doesn't mean you can't do it with a few friends faster.

Every other MMO with pets in existence lets you cast some if not all friendly-target spells and effects on allied pets.

This happens in FFXIV, as well. Almost every effect (except protect, for whatever reason) can be cast on pets. They even take super reduced damage from boss Aoe effects that they aren't directly targeted by. Nobody's QQing about how OP pets are.

[Moppet]

I agree 100%

A good way to increase pet usefulness in meaningful content in an easy and effective manner.

[Tennotsukai]

All pet jobs are underpowered. Please buff these jobs SE. Lay off the new content and fix those jobs that are greatly suffering.

[Brightshadow]

World of Warcraft did it the right way, they made pets part of the party without taking up a party member spot, I think that this solution would be the easiest way to allow pets to receive the same effects players receive. And as for Corsair pet related rolls just change them to something useful.

[Olor]

World of Warcraft did it the right way, they made pets part of the party without taking up a party member spot, I think that this solution would be the easiest way to allow pets to receive the same effects players receive. And as for Corsair pet related rolls just change them to something useful.

Cor rolls for pets only will NEVER be useful. No one will sacrifice a buff for the whole party to just buff a pet. All buffs should effect pets period.

And Grimlock, given that BST has no native buffs, this change would do little to change or improve the ability of BST to solo. Even if I could get buffs for my pet, it's not like I'm going to go BST/BRD and even if I did, the buff is so weak it doesn't matter. Only slight improvement I could see is /WHM allowing status effect removals from pets, and that's not OP anyway.

What it will do is reduce the cost of playing BST in party situations and make it more desirable in parties.

Yesterday I spent more than 100K doing 1 wildskeeper rieve - in jugs, mulsim and pet food, and my pets still got tore into little pieces. They don't even seem to get the momentum bonuses (do they? They didn't appear to, that was my first time going on BST cause why would I want to play on a job that costs immense amounts of money to participate)

[Draylo]

Buff SMN for sure, BST no ty!

[Damane]

i totally agree with the OP, they should let those things happen, thumbs up

[Alhanelem]

Spin it however you want, Ive personally seen 2 beast clean the clock of SKNM difficult.
I watched the voidwrought decontructer guy go down with ease to one.

Summoner & Pup, Sure I think they need a buff. But beast? A solo job in a MMO, and
everyone thinks its a great idea. Same as Trust, great idea make people not want to
play together Evenmore! Why party with a guy when you solo more? Why have a friend
help you beat a boss when you can solo? The term "chain of consequences" comes to mind.
It is'nt my fault if people do not see what they are infact creating. Then again people drive
off roads on cells phones after being spammed on tv, radio and online that its dangerous..
But guess what? that doesnt stop them. And just as I think of those people, I think of that
frame of thought here.

Grim~
There isn't any "spinning" going on here. All jobs should be "usable" in all content. Every other MMO with pets in existence does it this way. Why should pets be garbage just because they can be used to keep a monster at arm's length? These jobs should (and technically do but it is ignored due to pet fragility) bring more to the table than crowd control.

The point is, SE could have saved a lot of work coming up with special backwards ways of solving pet problems if they instead just let them be cured and buffed. My automaton can cure itself, why can't anyone else cure it? Why do I have to use special items to do it? Several abilities and effects have been added to pets over the years specifically to help deal with their inability to stay alive, but they are all bandaid solutions that required work to make when they could have taken a much simpler route to solve the problem.

[Kensagaku]

To an extent I agree with this idea; having enjoyed all of the pet jobs in the game, starting with Dragoon as my main job and slowly working around to experiencing them all, I certainly would love to see pets more relevant in current content. With the way they are right now, pets lack the ability to keep up with player characters in main combat. I'm fine with them not being able to be on complete par - if they were on par with players, and then you toss on the pet user as well, suddenly you're exceeding other jobs completely - but the gap should be smaller to the point where if your pet job is in the backline, letting their pet do the fighting, they're still keeping up to some extent, while being frontline along their pets puts them completely on even terms with other dds.

However, while I love pet jobs, I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a moment. With bard and corsair buffs, I have no strong argument, because they're general AoE and they should just hit pets without changing the tempo or attention of the buffer at all. My dislike would be for it to fall on your healer (WHM, RDM, or SCH, generally, though most likely WHM) to have an additional party slot to take care of in terms of debuff removal and healing. Can you imagine in content where you're already having a hard time, spamming -na spells on as many party members as you can while trying to keep up haste and cures, and then suddenly you've also got a pet that's not on the party list - <stpt> and <stal> say wut - that you have to manually target and heal? This would become frustrating and it would likely cause a pet to get ignored, because they are expendable and can be resummoned.

As a balancer to that, I would propose a job trait for the pet jobs that would allow THEM to perform these tasks on their pet. Bard and Corsair buffs could work in AoE and hit pets in that range, but healing/enhancing magic would not. For an example, on Beastmaster with your Reward timer down, you can go /WHM and cast Cure IV on your pet. If they get paralyzed and you don't want to waste your reward timer for one or two status ailments, you can cast the -na spells on them. Alternatively, go /DNC and use Curing/Healing Waltz on your pet. This would allow for more survivability and usefulness in pet jobs, giving them buffs and healing support without putting a heavier workload on your healer. Additionally, it would allow for a clever pet user to switch between front and backlines to either support their pet in combat or else get out of harm's way to focus on keeping their pet alive and doing their task. It may or may not make pet jobs more desirable, depending on how well the damage output keeps up, but with all of the hate resets, the large AoE damage spams, and status ailments, it would make pet jobs a safe alternative to standard melee damage dealing, much like Rangers are now.

The only disadvantage this offers is that for a pet job to make use of this trait, they would end up locked to specific jobs. In the case of BST, being locked to DNC or WHM isn't necessarily bad - used to do it all the time, after all, axe+shield /whm, or dual-axe /dnc - but for jobs like Puppetmaster and Dragoon, whose role is normally on the front line, it may be more of a burden. Fortunately, Dragoon has several tools to support their Wyvern in the form of Spirit Link and Steady Wing, while Puppetmaster can get a pet that can heal itself at the cost of a lower damage-dealing potential. It's something that would have to be carefully examined and looked at to make pet jobs more viable without completely limiting the way they can play.

[Alhanelem]

My dislike would be for it to fall on your healer (WHM, RDM, or SCH, generally, though most likely WHM) to have an additional party slot to take care of in terms of debuff removal and healing. This is a balancing factor; you have to take the bad with the good. That being said, no healer is going to feel an obligation to heal a pet that can be replaced easily; it will simply offer a tactical advantage to do so if the pet is truly needed. One simple fact here is nobody ever uses the pet buffs. Why buff the pets only when you can buff the master which in most cases is more advantageous? Short of pet buffs not using up a buff slot, this can't be fixed. these spells/abilities will always go unused because the support jobs will naturally choose buffing the many over buffing the few.

In short, I understand your concern, but making pet jobs more viable in parties is worth the slight trouble to support jobs. Worse comes to worse, you can just ignore the pets as per usual. You'd only be doing it if you were specifically trying to take advantage of pet classes in your party.

Again, let me emphasize that this is the standard in virtually all MMOs. You may not be used to it from FFXI, but it's how it works everywhere else pretty much, and it works just ifne.

[Ravenmore]

Difficult isn't really that hard at all depending on which SKCNM fight you're doing some are sleep inducing easy and the VWNM could have used a couple of cheap displacers. I bet with a couple of those and and with all the 119 ilvl gear I have I could do it on my blu or at the very least I can duo it with a whm alt so again you don't really have a leg to stand on.

[Olor]

Oh I know, I actually think of beast as a great party member, not just a soloer. That's half of my frustraition right there. I think if they were treated like roles in a party
half these issues wouldnt be as bad.

Well I can agree that spending 100k on a beast is very easy to do. muslums, pots, treats etc. However 100k is nothing. My friend and I do 700-900 currency duo in dynamis every day.
Our server avg of currency is 6k each. 6k x 800avg= 4.8mil. Maybe you can do half of that, maybe you can do more. But 100k is surely nothing when you think of the income u get from these. We do roughly 15 mil each in currency every week. Unless you're spending 75% you should be gaining income and not losing it. Barring you arent spending an arm and a leg to 119 like me :)

Grim~

Almost every job can make money in Dynamis, and they don't have to spend tons of money to do it. Several (DNC and THF come to mind) are MUCH BETTER at making money in dynamis.

And you thinking that BST is a good party member does not make it so. The math doesn't lie - BST is a subpar DD because pets do not get buffs. In current content we aren't even very good at what we used to be somewhat good at - being a distance DD - because our pets get chewed into little itty bitty pieces unless you're constantly spamming mulsim and reward - which costs a lot of gil, and even then we are barely scratching the mob.

[Blah]

Well, from a technical standpoint I can see why puppets don't get heals or regeneration, they're not alive so it "shouldn't" work on them but honestly they could just have the master learn an "oil spell" or "oil regen" (why call me a puppetmaster if I can't learn a puppet spell such as that?) They could even give it to the mages so they can help it too. Now the other pet jobs I don't see why they or puppets are left out of the buff equation...really is confounding.

[Brightshadow]

Puppets can cast cure on themselves ........ and they have souls

[Peepiopi]

If anything, Pets just need a flat 90% indirect damage reduction. They die too easily in relevant content.

[Blah]

Puppets can cast cure on themselves ........ and they have souls

So then they technically have no excuse for cure and regeneration not to work? They've just been not letting it just to screw them? Nice...

[Alhanelem]

It's illogical that they can cast cure on themselves yet other people can't.

[Malthar]

W/e Dray. We all know you're an obsessed beast-hater. lol

[Kensagaku]

Uh... honestly, you're wrong on this one, Grim. You're welcome to disagree, but I can assure you that BST is unfortunately not a good member in current endgame scenarios, unless you're talking VE or E difficulties. For Delve, for N+ difficulties on the merit KI fights, BST is at a severe disadvantage because it lacks pet buffs. End of story.

Disclaimer: Some of my numbers might be off; I'm not sure how various buffs interact with each other additively or multiplicatively. So pardons in advance!

If you have a standard bard, two songs, that's generally going to be March/March, and with +2 instruments (which any reasonable brd should have... I'd say +3 but VW only harp ftl. Took forever to get mine) that's +19% magic haste. Let's toss on Haste as well, so that's 34% magic haste. That's 34% attack delay less, and that's not including haste gear. Assuming a Beastmaster pulls out a perfect haste set, putting them at 25% haste (which is possible!) that 34% still makes a difference. Then let's just say there's two bards rotating. Assuming you need accuracy, suddenly we've got at least one Madrigal for +37 accuracy (no excuse for not having +3 on this...). So there's an accuracy discrepancy from song as well as skill+ on weapons, not to mention the vast amount of acc+ options on armor.

This is assuming a pair of two-song bards, or a single three-song bard. Already we're seeing a difference of 34% attack delay, 37 accuracy, and whatever accuracy/attack comes on standard dd gear right now. Low-end buffs. The more you get, the greater the difference becomes. Let's say, for example, you get a four-song bard or (if you're lucky) a pair of four-song bards. Odds are low, but let's just go out on a limb. Now we have something like Marchx2/Minuetx3/Madrigalx2/Scherzo, for example. Attack Delay, Attack, Accuracy, and some stability with that severe damage reduction. Or toss on a COR; Chaos Roll and Hunter's Roll.

My point is that there are so many buffs, and without them the difference is astounding. It's why I support the idea of bard and corsair buffs affecting pets, as they're AoE anyway, would make pets far more relevant, and it wouldn't mess with the tempo of battle.

[Blah]

Hey Shinron don't forget to ask to get rid of the timer for beastmaster, that would go a long way too if I'm not mistaken and no other pet has one it is really unfair to stymie beastmaster that way.

[Jinzha]

So what's it going to be, Square Enix. The people ask to have their question answered and yet the game developers still stand silent. This feels like just another run around... You sit quietly until we all give up and everyone forgets the post ever existed. Well that ain't happening. We want an answer.
Is it or is it not possible to make curing and buffing pets possible? It is and simple yes or no question and we're all waiting for an answer.

[Deifact]

I'm sure it is possible. With enough time/effort they could do anything with the game. It's just whether they want to.

What happens to Corsair buffs that specifically target pets? They'd probably be redundant if this was changed.

[Jinzha]

I'm sure it is possible. With enough time/effort they could do anything with the game. It's just whether they want to.

What happens to Corsair buffs that specifically target pets? They'd probably be redundant if this was changed.

There are three approaches.

They could just keep the original corsair rolls and allow them to still be used on pets in combination with normal rolls. This could be powerful if you stacked the same types of rolls but I don't think it would break the game.

The second option would be to just replace those rolls with different effects that are not pet only.

The third could be to just delete them in general.

No one really uses pet oriented corsair rolls because it can be a waste of a roll so I have no problems just getting rid of pet rolls, but I think the easiest solution would be the first: keeping pet rolls so that if people are using a battle strategy involving pets then there is still the option to use both rolls. This option would also mean less developer man hours recreating or deleting rolls

[Blah]

Or do what they promised and give corsairs more rolls....(I seriously thought when they gave bards more they also gave corsairs more, boy am I disappointed) :(

[Vold]

Seeing what they've done starting with the level cap raise, to Abyssea, and up to the ending with this very sentence, including TRUST which has made any solo pet job arguments moot on the spot, SE is running out of excuses to stick with their tiresome firm belief that pets make their masters equal to non pet jobs. We're at that point where one or the other has to give, SE has to allow pets to be stronger through buffs or whatnot, or they have to admit they hate pet jobs and have only included them because they're a MMORPG staple.

No one can deny that everyone's viewpoint, including SE, has been "pet solo is so great that it makes up for the group shortcomings and so it's a niche job" I agree it's a tough spot to be in to argue making say BST stronger for groups. But when you have 3 freebie NPCs that match your ilevel that makes soloing some adoulin NMs possible(or extremely easier) it leaves little room for arguing against pets being buffed other than the lame escape goat excuse "well BST can use TRUST too sooooo yeah!" which in that case I'd argue that BST is at a disadvantage vs other highly soloable but pet-less jobs when it comes to adoulin areas and TRUST NPCs. Pet or no pet, BST doesn't have a lot going for it besides it's pet, and the same goes for all pet jobs.

Sooooo...yeah. I don't think getting buffs/heals from players/NPCs to land on pets is such a terrible end of the universe deal. Just do it and monitor the situation. If it turns out players somehow manage to do what they otherwise shouldn't be able to then take it away. Personally I do not see people retiring their current cream of the crop jobs to do the job slower with pet alliances. But it probably will allow others to try content they otherwise wouldn't even try.

[Kaiichi]

After reading this thread closely, you all have good points, and that is why SE is standing silent; there is too much conservancy on the matter. However, the one suggestion that I personally can agree on is the pet rolls for COR. I to feel that they should only target pets in the area, that way no one would be disrupted by a Dragoon's Roll.

[Leonardus]

Seriously SE, form up a test party with some iLv.119 BSTs and go pop a Level 120+ content monster.

Go do an AA on Normal/Difficult.

With a bard and/or corsair, and suitable gear, you can hit these with your axes. That's fine.

Your pets? Watch them struggle to even gain 100 TP without Run Wild.

Was this the intended design? They need those songs and rolls just as much as we do.

[Glamdring]

I do agree with the OP. however, pup and smn need an easier to obtain item to ilevel 119 their pet as well. example, the drop rate on divinator is just awful. It really isn't fair that our pets have to be gimpped without horribly difficult to obtain items. at least bst and drg can do it relatively easy through Ra'Kaz skirmish (only took me 1 month on beast going 2 days a week) but for smn and pup it's just not comparable.

[SNK]

BST is fine with jug pets imo. Anything added to how strong they are would break them.

[Demonjustin]

What all pet jobs need are for songs and rolls to simply affect their pets, simple as that, it would instantly make all pet jobs much more useful and wouldn't be breaking them or making them OP. Pets as it is are fine in unbuffed situations, sure, but as soon as you start getting to content where your acc starts to drop and you need to break out the Sushi what happens? Your pet goes from a helpful ally to a waste of space, unable to even land hits on an enemy let alone deal enough DMG to make up for the player's lack of such DMG.

One specific idea I had for BST to solve this issue is pet food that buffs like a Sole Sushi Treat that would give Accuracy+ in the exact same way that Sole Sushi do for players. PUPs have Attachments, so I say they can do without that kind of thing, but I think SMN needs something similar as well for high accuracy required situations.


BST is fine with jug pets imo. Anything added to how strong they are would break them.

Explain how in any content level 119 or higher BST is able to perform well at all. I've seen no BST do well in Skirmish, Delve, or even really AAs, let alone the new Delve monsters who are getting higher. To say BST is fine is to look only at Dynamis and other low level content and judge it on that basis alone.

[Jinzha]

One specific idea I had for BST to solve this issue is pet food that buffs like a Sole Sushi Treat that would give Accuracy+ in the exact same way that Sole Sushi do for players. PUPs have Attachments, so I say they can do without that kind of thing, but I think SMN needs something similar as well for high accuracy required situations.


Puppetmaster's automatons need buffs just as much as all other pets despite attachments. Even with full accuracy attachments (maximized accuracy), automatons can't hit high level content. There's no need to separate bst from pup or smn from drg... We're all in the shitter together and the only way one pet gets buffs or pet food is if all of them do, so we need to stick together.

[Olor]

Puppetmaster's automatons need buffs just as much as all other pets despite attachments. Even with full accuracy attachments (maximized accuracy), automatons can't hit high level content. There's no need to separate bst from pup or smn from drg... We're all in the shitter together and the only way one pet gets buffs or pet food is if all of them do, so we need to stick together.

Agreed. Pet jobs unite.

[Demonjustin]

Puppetmaster's automatons need buffs just as much as all other pets despite attachments. Even with full accuracy attachments (maximized accuracy), automatons can't hit high level content. There's no need to separate bst from pup or smn from drg... We're all in the shitter together and the only way one pet gets buffs or pet food is if all of them do, so we need to stick together.I know PUP needs buffs, I just didn't think the Accuracy and Atk issues were as pronounced on PUP because of attachments. Songs and Rolls I figured would be enough to pick up what they lack now rather than BST which needs that as well as some supplemental food backing it up, seeing as the cap is 80 Acc or so for Sushi I figured attachments probably do about the same or offer more flexibility provided Automatons and Pets are around the same by default. In either case, they all need buffs, just not sure as to what degree each need, not all fixes can work for all pets so easily.


Keep following wikis, Keep building your pets with pdt gear and expect decent dmg. :rolleyes:

Grim~Full BST Relic excluding hands which are MR, + Tojil Belt, + Delve Bee and Hurkan Axes, you get significant Pet Acc and Haste enough to cap yet your pet still falls far behind DDs in even Skirmish, Accuracy can even be an issue on some targets, and there's no way to alleviate that fact.

[Jinzha]

I know PUP needs buffs, I just didn't think the Accuracy and Atk issues were as pronounced on PUP because of attachments. Songs and Rolls I figured would be enough to pick up what they lack now rather than BST which needs that as well as some supplemental food backing it up, seeing as the cap is 80 Acc or so for Sushi I figured attachments probably do about the same or offer more flexibility provided Automatons and Pets are around the same by default. In either case, they all need buffs, just not sure as to what degree each need, not all fixes can work for all pets so easily.

Beastmaster probably does need some sort of supplemental food for accuracy and attack, but automatons, summons, and dragons need it just as much. I wouldn't argue so much that one pet should get a form of accuracy or attack bonuses over another unless it's a bonus directly to the job itself because it would be a bit weird if they make a food that only effects the accuracy/attack of beast pets and not all the others... That's like making Sole Sushi only effect Samurai and not all the other jobs.There's really no such thing as over capping accuracy or attack in this game, so the more the better for any pet, especially as content progresses and gets harder. As a person who has played PUP for many years, it's hard enough dealing with the 3 maneuver system that dictates what stats are on your pet, so I'd be more inclined to say that automatons actually really need food accuracy bonuses as well as accuracy from bard and corsairs because that means we can spend less time concerning about using thunder maneuvers (melee accuracy) or wind maneuvers (Ranged accuracy) and spend more time on other maneuvers that can be used to keep our pets alive or improve their damage efficiency.

I'm not trying to personally attack you, by any means. I think the point you bring up of pet food is pretty important actually and it's why I'm sort of belaboring the topic. Pet food is another point that definitely should be brought up in this thread. Pets need food, buffs, and cures just as much as any other job and player.

[Deifact]

"I can't solo delve content with my pet!" ahh you poor things.. I swore that content was'nt ment to do alone.


SE if you havent noticed the same 5 names spam these forums, and usally focus around their own needs.

Grim~

This is discussing allowing pets to get buffs in group scenarios though.

[Jinzha]

I'm just going to keep against this one. Solo jobs arent the best thing for mmorpgs. But by all means if SE wants to run off whats left of its playerbase,
keep focusing on non team oriented content. There are plenty of well thought out posts in professional mmo forums describing why this is a bad thing
for most modern mmorpgs.

"I can't solo delve content with my pet!" ahh you poor things.. I swore that content was'nt ment to do alone.


SE if you havent noticed the same 5 names spam these forums, and usally focus around their own needs.

Grim~

I'm going to start by saying that I agree with your point that solo jobs aren't a good thing on mmorpgs. I don't necessarily think they shouldn't exist in them, but I also don't see the point of having a massive multi-player game if there is literally no interaction between other players. It might as well be a single player offline game.

Now to my bigger point, did you actually read the original post clearly? The main point of this thread was to make it so that pet jobs will be less solo oriented and to actually enable them to participate in group content with other players, not promote them even more to solo. I understand your point that by over powering pet jobs, they will be more apt to solo on their own because they can do everything, but nothing that was mentioned as a suggestion to make it easier for pets job to participate in group content can make them possibly more powerful alone. Let me break it down:

Pets being able to be cured with healing magic and waltzes:

In order for a pet to receive cures, they will have to be in the presence of other players who are mages. This means that the player is no longer soloing but participating with other players to be healed. If a pet job were to utilize /WHM /RDM /SCH /DNC or /Mage etc. on the other hand, even this is not overpowering. Any pet job besides SMN that would /Mage would only have a maximum of maybe 200~400 MP? That's not going to go a very far in the long run. If a pet job subs DNC, they're draining their TP keeping their pet alive instead of weapon skilling. Will this enable them to be able to solo Tojil because they can cure their pet, I don't think so but you can prove me wrong.

Pet jobs being able to receive BRD/COR/GEO/Etc. buffs

The only way a pet job will get these buffs are if they are in a party, not if they're solo. So again, there's a hole in your argument. If a pet job goes /COR, /BRD, /GEO... Enjoy having weak songs applied to your pets, or a few select rolls from /COR that is completely useless in comparison to something more practical like /WAR or /NIN... And don't get me started on /GEO...

Pets receiving buffs like Protect/Shell/Haste/Etc.

Ok seriously? This is going to break the game? My pet can solo Tojil or Dakuwaqa or AA or Very difficult now because he has an additional 175 Defense from Protect V that again has to be casted by another player which again is no soloing.

Every single one of these suggestions promotes teamwork and gives pet jobs the boost that they need... None of it is game breaking and none of it is going to be pet jobs even more of a 'solo' job. Quite frankly, not having these types of buffs is part of the reason why they're solo jobs.

I'm not a fan of targeting people specifically, but quite frankly you've been picking a fight from the beginning of this thread when you kept referring to people as 'Wiki' readers.

"Maybe you should think outside of the box." Perhaps you are a wiki person? I dont read wiki's I make them.


Edit: Also that was the most condescending thing I have ever heard in my life, and honestly if I knew you, I'd make you apologize to Olor.

It's quite frankly funny because you talk so much about Beastmaster but you explicitly say I've 'watched' and not I've played...


Ive personally seen 2 beast clean the clock of SKNM difficult.
I watched the voidwrought decontructer guy go down with ease to one.


First of all that is like lvl 113 content, anyone can solo SKCNM, and have you ever heard of displacers? Anyone can solo any VWNM with 5 displacer on. We are talking about Ilvl 119 + content that requires copious amounts of accuracy that pet jobs simply do not have. Secondly, You sound like the biggest wiki reader to me, you're preaching about BST doing voidwrought and SKNM difficult solo which you didn't personally do yourself. Go play the job and that content and then come back to us and tell us how easy it was.

Honestly I love the fact that you're playing the antagonist of the thread because it allows for us to point out the the idiotic excuses crossing the minds of the game developers as for why doing something like this isn't possible, but there comes a time when enough is enough. It's people like you who have been holding FFXI back forever because either they've never played the jobs and feel they have credible opinions or they're not smart enough to to actually read the original post comprehensively. You literally said this:


I actually think of beast as a great party member, not just a soloer. That's half of my frustraition right there. I think if they were treated like roles in a party
half these issues wouldnt be as bad.

You're an advocate for BST being a party job yet, you're literally stifling any sort of chance for BST to potentially be accepted as a party job. If players cannot help keep a pet alive that can barely survive as is, and if the pet can't hit, why will they waste their time inviting it to Ilvl 119+ content? If you actually play the job, you'll realize how tough it is to play and how utterly useless it in any important content.

Even if I wrote the most convincing post that was 100% true and had no holes, I doubt you'd ever swallow your pride and admit it, so I'm not even going to waste my time hoping to get you to see the light, but I just hope this serves as an example to everyone as to why pets jobs are in the place we are today. And, Grimlocke, if you think you have a better suggestion as to how to save PUP, BST, SMN, and DRG from it's lonely road of solitude, be my guest and tell us your brilliant plan... I can't wait to hear it so I can go:

I'm just going to keep against this one.

~Jinzha.

[Jinzha]

You are correct, I was a litle bit off there. but still, focusing on pet buffs should be back burner when alot of other jobs
are in great need of some kind of buff. Smn,Pup,Drg,Rdm,Drk just off the top of my head.

If people were to use beast to do group content, I wouldnt mind so much. But as it is 99% of all beast solo. So buffing
beast will only make them better soloers, and take away more people from the party pool. Making more soloing in a Mmorpg
is a bad thing, for people who like to do group content. There are many posts done by professionals that show trending in
current markets that show this.

Grim~


You are correct, I was a litle bit off there.

Oh ya, just a little bit? Ok.


but still, focusing on pet buffs should be back burner when alot of other jobs
are in great need of some kind of buff. Smn,Pup,Drg,Rdm,Drk just off the top of my head.

Seriously will someone tell me how hard it is to allow pets to be buffed? Is it really going to take up all the time of the game developers to buff a pet? If they can allow trust npcs to be buffed, I'm pretty sure they can program pets into buffs easily.


There are many posts done by professionals that show trending in
current markets that show this.

Again, tell me who sounds like the wiki reader here? Why don't you prove it yourself, hot shot. Remember you don't read things, you create them.

[Brightshadow]

There was a time that drain samba affected pets so I don't think it'll be that hard.

[Olor]

What you seem to be missing Grim is this specific suggestion needs to be implemented so pet jobs will be welcome in parties doing important content where they are not currently welcome.

[Olor]

Also I'd like to point out that this change would also help GEOMANCER as Luopans could benefit from protect and shell etc. since they are counted as pets. Since they currently break when you look at them too hard, this would at least help a bit.

[Shinron-PUP]

Four score and seven years ago, or at least it feels that way, the game developers of Final Fantasy XI brought forth on Vana'diel a world, conceived in magic, and dedicated to the proposition that all jobs were created equally useful. But as time had passed and the times of war had ceased in Vana'diel, the lands were no longer abundant with adventures; for many had moved on to other fantasies. In hope to revitalize the lands once filled with purpose and peril, the old game developers were replaced with the new. From Abyssean lands to Adoulian Isles, the remaining adventurers were occupied with new obstacles to overcome in which the game developers believed would win again their players' loyalty and dedication. However, the developers, once revered as Gods, forgot their one unspoken promise that had been upheld many years ago: to protect the equality of all jobs. The game developers, although aware of their grave mistake, continued on throwing new spoils at their players hoping that the Lethe waters of time would wash away the people's memories of their vow. The people may have forgotten, but the lands had not. The world's diversity had faded over time as battles called forth stricter strategies. People began to only practice the professions of Monk, Bard, Corsair, and a few others because the other classes could no longer help fend away the new mighty foes of Vana'diel. Some of the unpopular classes have survived to this day, but four classes in particular now stand at the brink of extinction. Beastmaster, Puppetmaster, Summoner, and Dragoon, may now be of ancient practice, but a few brave Vana'delians have decided to stand against their Gods, the game developers, and fight for a world where even their kind can exist too.

Today I would like to announce the Declaration of the Pet Job Equal Rights Movement! Pet jobs have been forgotten for too long, and it's time that we stand up together and fight to make our jobs better and more useful in group content so that we can enjoy any form of content on the jobs that we love.

The only way the pet job community is going to get their questions answered and their problems solved, is if we work together to do so. This means commenting, posting, and also liking those comments and posts if we do. Some posts get over thousands of views but only a handful of people actually like them. If you agree with a post, like it... it will show the game developers that the people really want something to happen. We have been asking the game developers for far too long to fix our problems and they just aren't listening and they're not answering. So let's make them listen and answer. Let's show them that we're tired of suggesting things but never being heard.

This thread isn't just about giving pets access to cures and buffs, but to make our four jobs more useful and more needed. Whether that that is by giving our pets more accuracy, more attack, or more defense, we simply want a solution to our problems so that we can all participate in all content. So start asking questions and demanding answers whether it be about giving pets access to cures and buffs or fixing the ridiculous timer on call beast...

The game developers have stood silent for far too long! And although this post may sound cheesy as hell, this is our opportunity to show them that we mean business. Let's make them talk!

[Brightshadow]

Four score and seven years ago, or at least it feels that way, the game developers of Final Fantasy XI brought forth on Vana'diel a world, conceived in magic, and dedicated to the proposition that all jobs were created equally useful. But as time had passed and the times of war had ceased in Vana'diel, the lands were no longer abundant with adventures; for many had moved on to other fantasies. In hope to revitalize the lands once filled with purpose and peril, the old game developers were replaced with the new. From Abyssean lands to Adoulian Isles, the remaining adventurers were occupied with new obstacles to overcome in which the game developers believed would win again their players' loyalty and dedication. However, the developers, once revered as Gods, forgot their one unspoken promise that had been upheld many years ago: to protect the equality of all jobs. The game developers, although aware of their grave mistake, continued on throwing new spoils at their players hoping that the Lethe waters of time would wash away the people's memories of their vow. The people may have forgotten, but the lands had not. The world's diversity had faded over time as battles called forth stricter strategies. People began to only practice the professions of Monk, Bard, Corsair, and a few others because the other classes could no longer help fend away the new mighty foes of Vana'diel. Some of the unpopular classes have survived to this day, but four classes in particular now stand at the brink of extinction. Beastmaster, Puppetmaster, Summoner, and Dragoon, may now be of ancient practice, but a few brave Vana'delians have decided to stand against their Gods, the game developers, and fight for a world where even their kind can exist too.

Today I would like to announce the Declaration of the Pet Job Equal Rights Movement! Pet jobs have been forgotten for too long, and it's time that we stand up together and fight to make our jobs better and more useful in group content so that we can enjoy any form of content on the jobs that we love.

The only way the pet job community is going to get their questions answered and their problems solved, is if we work together to do so. This means commenting, posting, and also liking those comments and posts if we do. Some posts get over thousands of views but only a handful of people actually like them. If you agree with a post, like it... it will show the game developers that the people really want something to happen. We have been asking the game developers for far too long to fix our problems and they just aren't listening and they're not answering. So let's make them listen and answer. Let's show them that we're tired of suggesting things but never being heard.

This thread isn't just about giving pets access to cures and buffs, but to make our four jobs more useful and more needed. Whether that that is by giving our pets more accuracy, more attack, or more defense, we simply want a solution to our problems so that we can all participate in all content. So start asking questions and demanding answers whether it be about giving pets access to cures and buffs or fixing the ridiculous timer on call beast...

The game developers have stood silent for far too long! And although this post may sound cheesy as hell, this is our opportunity to show them that we mean business. Let's make them talk!

What about my Geomancer ? :_: our luopans are considered pets by the ingame mechanics we need pet job love lol.

[Shinron-PUP]

What about my Geomancer ? :_: our luopans are considered pets by the ingame mechanics we need pet job love lol.

Equal rights don't extend to the geomancer kind! Just kidding. I was going to mention Geomancer in light of Olor's comment earlier, but I wanted to emphasize the main four pet job classes because although Geomancer is struggling with its Loupons, it's still used often in group content in comparison to the rest of the five pet classes. Olor's comment kind of correlates with what you're saying...


Also I'd like to point out that this change would also help GEOMANCER as Luopans could benefit from protect and shell etc. since they are counted as pets. Since they currently break when you look at them too hard, this would at least help a bit.

By allowing pets to be cured and buffed, Loupons would definitely benefit a great deal from this. Not only would Loupons be able to receive protect, shell, phalanx II, and stoneskin via accession as well as an assortment of other protective spells like Sentinel's Scherzo from Bard, Geomancers could use healing magic as a second resort to keeping their loupons alive when things get rough. This would create less of an emphasis on damage taken down approach that the game developers are looking at right now to keep Loupons alive, although the combination of damage taken -, buffs, and cures would ultimately solve the issue.

[Brightshadow]

I actually think it'll be interesting if we could also heal our luopans by casting the correct elemental magic spells on it.

[Deifact]

I think luopans will be OK in the long run, they only really need to slap some good -luopan damage taken on some gear and it's a problem fixed.

[Mitruya]

Pet job buffs, more job equality <Yes, please>
SE has been giving us some good adjustments and drops since Delve 1.0, but it's useless when you can't even get in the content on those jobs without having the drop already. ("No Upukirex? Sorry, no Ceizak clear for you")
The jobs just under-perform, suffer from JA delays, and the pets can't hit anything or stay alive.
Why are there even 22 jobs in this game at all if only 5 or 6 can access content?
I suppose the lackluster JSE weapons are the answer for those of us who are excluded, yet for the gil I'd spend I could probably buy a Delve win anyway ...
If the content is so "easy" that parties can carry leeches, then why the hell can't a pet job player come and actually play the game?

[Jinzha]

Grimlocke, I apologize for the crudeness of my comments towards you, and I'll admit that I did lash out at you because I felt you deserved it. I think comments like the ones I made against you are exactly why these forums aren't very successful because people fail to respect the opinions of others. I bullied you the same way that you bullied others with your comments, and discouraged you from being able to comment in a friendly environment. However, don't think that my apology means that you did nothing wrong. The point of these threads are to contribute insightful comments and suggestions that the game developers can use to create a road map for making the game better, and by saying some of the condescending and bias and stubborn things you said gets no one nowhere. I wouldn't have gone back on what I said to ask for a truce if I didn't think that there was a important lesson to be learned for everyone in this forum. I neglected to think about who I could have been talking to... For all I know you could have been only twelve or thirteen years old and here I am scolding you and making you feel unwelcome in a place that should be free for everyone to comment and let their voices be heard. I'm not insulting you and saying you're twelve, I'm just saying that none of us know who is on the other side of the screen and none of us know how that person feels or what that person may be going through. And I should have personally known better not to make anyone feel bad no matter who they are for what they may have said because I do the same thing too. So I will say that although I disagree with your opinions, I respect what you have said, and you shouldn't feel like you can't comment in the forums because of our clash.

[Lithera]

It's not you, it's him. I'm just surprised he continued to post on these forums after he said he would stop; after his I'm not going to try and have the rest of the forum try to understand why I want to buy SoA straight from PoL without any real explanation thread.

[Railer]

Guess I will not renew this month due to again not being able to play Beastmaster as main. May come back when pet jobs are buffed to everyone's standards for end game activities.

[Jinzha]

I actually think it'll be interesting if we could also heal our luopans by casting the correct elemental magic spells on it.

I actually think that's a good idea because then Geomancers wouldn't necessarily need to sub WHM, RDM, or SCH in order to heal their pets. Could heal Luopans anytime through elemental magic, and granted tier 1 elemental magic does so much now, you could probably cure a luopan with just a couple low mp nukes.

[bungiefanNA]

Grimlocke, I apologize for the crudeness of my comments towards you

It looks like he just decided to nuke his account by deleting every post he could, except the thread he started. Apparently the apology won't be read. I wonder if the moderators could restore his posts so at least people can get the full conversation.

[Jinzha]

It looks like he just decided to nuke his account by deleting every post he could, except the thread he started. Apparently the apology won't be read. I wonder if the moderators could restore his posts so at least people can get the full conversation.

Ya he deleted all his posts before I made my 'apology' comment, but I'm sure he seen my post. I Doubt he wouldn't stick around for a little while longer to see how everyone responded to his rage quit. But I said what I said and I meant it. I feel bad that we all sort of ganged up on him and made him feel like he can't post here anymore, but he was asking for it.

[Siviard]

Ya he deleted all his posts before I made my 'apology' comment, but I'm sure he seen my post. I Doubt he wouldn't stick around for a little while longer to see how everyone responded to his rage quit. But I said what I said and I meant it. I feel bad that we all sort of ganged up on him and made him feel like he can't post here anymore, but he was asking for it.

Why apologize? He was trolling and it was annoying. Personally, I'm glad you put him in his place.

[Shinron-PUP]

I'm a bit disappointed that two weeks after the creation of this thread we still have yet to see any sort of response by the Forum Leaders, although we clearly asked that this was a topic that we absolutely wanted some feed back on. Of course this isn't a big surprise, there're probably hundreds of suggestions made by the pet job community that probably didn't even get looked at. But seriously? 33 likes on the OP and counting and that's not enough to jolt some attention? Honestly that's more likes than I've ever seen any game developers or even Camate ever get in the NA forums. I'd like to ask everyone in the forum: Do you guys think that they're purposely not responding to this thread because its too controversial and they know that it's the most logical solution but they don't want to do it? I feel like Kaiichi was on to something:


After reading this thread closely, you all have good points, and that is why SE is standing silent; there is too much conservancy on the matter. .

Has anyone else noticed that typically the only time a thread is responded to is if the game developers already intended to add that suggestion or are asking for suggestions themselves? I'm starting to believe that the forums are giving the false illusion that the game developers are listening to our opinions, but are actually just doing what they want to do and not what we all would like to have happen at the end of the day.

We asked clearly that all we want is a response. It could be telling us that they have reviewed our suggestions, or that they do or do not want to implement these types of suggestions. If we don't get a response how are we supposed to know if the suggestion was ever even looked at. I feel like a thread like this would probably have been responded to already if we were in the JP forums and not NA, and it's a bit frustrating that just because we have a smaller player base, our opinions aren't equivalent to a Japanese player's. I'd like to know what you guys think:


- Do Japanese players get responded to more than NA players?
- Are the game developers purposely not responding to us?
- Are we wasting our time in the end?


Just like Alhanelem said, the game developers keep coming up with half baked solutions to problems that could be fixed so easily...


Several abilities and effects have been added to pets over the years specifically to help deal with their inability to stay alive, but they are all bandaid solutions that required work to make when they could have taken a much simpler route to solve the problem.

I'm a career Puppetmaster, and because I do a lot of end game content, I always need Automaton Repair Oils and Dawn Mulsims. I've spent over 30 million gil in oils and mulsims in all the time I've been playing PUP. Can you honestly tell me that this is practical when I could have been using cures and waltzes that would have cost me nothing?

I'm not saying that pets being able to receive healing magic and buffs from other players are the only solutions to solving our issues with keeping our pets alive and being useful in group content. Peepiopi had a good point that FFXIV has been using that is making pet survive better.


If anything, Pets just need a flat 90% indirect damage reduction. They die too easily in relevant content.

Maybe we don't need a flat 90%, but some indirect damage annullment could go a long when in fixing our pets death rates.

If you guys have other ideas that you believe would make pet jobs more useful in group content, make a post a let us all know. We need all the good ideas we can get because the game developers clearly don't have any.

[Gannon]

Honestly I think the language barrier is the biggest obstacle to overcome with getting your ideas to the devs. It would probably be a good idea for someone that is good at translating between English and Japanese to compile all the good ideas from this thread, translate them into Japanese and post them all on their side of the forums.

[Blah]

Honestly I think the language barrier is the biggest obstacle to overcome with getting your ideas to the devs. It would probably be a good idea for someone that is good at translating between English and Japanese to compile all the good ideas from this thread, translate them into Japanese and post them all on their side of the forums.
Well I hate to say this but if that really is their biggest problem then they aren't a very good company at all or at least not as good as they try to portray themselves to be. Even small companies make sure to have multilingual employees and definitely hire multilingual people to work the forums. Remember there are still some French, Spanish, Chinese etc, gamers playing they've got to be able to communicate to them too if not I don't know if I'm even going to keep supporting them. Why when if I hablo espanol you say sorry Japanese, English or gtfo?

[Gannon]

Well I hate to say this but if that really is their biggest problem then they aren't a very good company at all or at least not as good as they try to portray themselves to be. Even small companies make sure to have multilingual employees and definitely hire multilingual people to work the forums. Remember there are still some French, Spanish, Chinese etc, gamers playing they've got to be able to communicate to them too if not I don't know if I'm even going to keep supporting them. Why when if I hablo espanol you say sorry Japanese, English or gtfo?

It's not that SE doesn't have multilingual employees on staff, pretty sure the community reps at least know Japanese. The problem is the devs themselves mostly know just Japanese and they do read and reply to the forums, in Japanese. My idea was just getting this thread's ideas over to where there is a better chance for the devs to actually see it.

[Shinron-PUP]

Monday morning of next week I can have my Japanese friend translate the content of this thread over into the Japanese forums. However, I still think that we shouldn't have to work to this extent to get some attention and responses, but at this point the only way we're going to get our suggestions to happen is if we have the unanimous support of all of the playerbase including JP, EU, NA, and others. I was just taking a peek over at the general discussion in the JP forums and they have some posts with over 500,000 views and we're barely breaking 10k, so it's no longer surprising to me that the JP forums get more attention than the NA and other forums, not to mention they also have quite a bit more community reps.

Regardless of if we have multilingual community reps or not, the communication between NA players, the community reps, and the game developers are just not as good as they should be, so I think it's time we take the initiative.

Would you guys like me to to make the post in the JP forum? Comment or thumbs up. I personally think it's the next step if we want these things to be implemented, but I'm open to opinions.

[Blah]

Monday morning of next week I can have my Japanese friend translate the content of this thread over into the Japanese forums. However, I still think that we shouldn't have to work to this extent to get some attention and responses, but at this point the only way we're going to get our suggestions to happen is if we have the unanimous support of all of the playerbase including JP, EU, NA, and others. I was just taking a peek over at the general discussion in the JP forums and they have some posts with over 500,000 views and we're barely breaking 10k, so it's no longer surprising to me that the JP forums get more attention than the NA and other forums, not to mention they also have quite a bit more community reps.

Regardless of if we have multilingual community reps or not, the communication between NA players, the community reps, and the game developers are just not as good as they should be, so I think it's time we take the initiative.

Would you guys like me to to make the post in the JP forum? Comment or thumbs up. I personally think it's the next step if we want these things to be implemented, but I'm open to opinions.

Yes please I don't like to think we're being ignored because now that it's mostly Japanese they can safely write us off but we'll have our answer if we get a quick response when you post it on the Japanese forums.

[Jinzha]

Do you guys think that they're purposely not responding to this thread because its too controversial and they know that it's the most logical solution but they don't want to do it?
Has anyone else noticed that typically the only time a thread is responded to is if the game developers already intended to add that suggestion or are asking for suggestions themselves? I'm starting to believe that the forums are giving the false illusion that the game developers are listening to our opinions, but are actually just doing what they want to do and not what we all would like to have happen at the end of the day.


All that has to be said is "Stymie". Absolutely everyone hated the Red Mage 1 hour Stymie from its conception and we all protested against it and begged the game developers to give Red Mage something more useful. Did they listen? No. At the end of the day the game developers did what the hell the game developers wanted to do and that was that.



Thanks for all the feedback regarding Stymie.
While this may end up being a repeat of what was mentioned previously by Producer Akihiko Matsui, the development team feels that when it comes to the newly implemented seal battlefields, this ability is effective and has its uses.

We encourage you to enter these battlefields and try out strategies using this ability.


Here is what Akihiko really said to all of us


Originally Posted by Producer Akihiko Matsui:

"Thanks for all your feedback everyone! Although we're aware that everyone completely detests and loathes the Red Mage 1 Hour Stymie, we'd like you to try it anyway because we're right and you're wrong and everyone can suck it."

P.S. We didn't even read your feedback because you're NA players.

*Disclaimer: This is not a original post by Okipuit or Akihiko Matsui, but simply a parody.


The position Pet jobs are in right now are no different from stymie. The game developers are well aware that just about every person who has actually played Beastermaster, Summoner, Puppetmaster, and Dragoon are absolutely unsatisfied with the jobs because they spend so much time gearing and leveling it to simply have retire it anyway because it has no use in group content. The game developers know the solution to the problem, but they're to stubborn to actually just listen to us for once.

Honestly I wouldn't be too surprised if the game developers are just not saying anything because they want to let this thread die. The thread is too controversial. They know that if they confront the post, they will inevitably have to get involved with it because there's an obvious problem and if they don't fix it then it'll just make them look bad. So they're all just ignoring the big elephant in the room and hoping it'll go away eventually.

Camate and the other community representatives have had an ampule amount of time to read through this thread and forward it to the game developers for them to respond to. Either they're still coming up with a response, or they didn't even bother to read it in the first place. But who knows because no one is saying anything to us. I don't know about you guys, but I'm a bit fed up. I don't know what it'll take for them to start listening and responding to us but if this drags on any longer I think I'm retiring from FFXI because this is just a waste of time.

~Shout out to Debmaeda from Fenrir for bringing up this point.

[Lithera]

To defend Camate and the rest of the NA dev team they do have two forums, Facebook posts, twitter, and a whole other butt load of stuff to wade through. They probably have read the OP and this thread. After all of that wading they then talk to the other community reps to probably compare notes before passing things off to SE. Then there is the whole somethings don't have direct translation so that can slow down somethings a bit. I'm sure most of the main dev teams know enough English since they go to various conferences ect. It's just easier for them to respond in Japanese than it would be to translate into something else.

Yes it can be hard to stay the corse while it looks like you're being ignored, but this isn't even the only thread that is begging or pleading for some kind of response. Just look at the please fix these blue spells thread.

[Olor]

Yeah pet jobs are just not relevant in any hard content. They need to fix it. It's tiring never getting a response.

[Siviard]

Well, seeing as though they just shot down my thread about Drachen Roll & Beast Roll for COR ("working as intended" they say), it seems quite obvious the Development Team doesn't give a rat's rectal cavity about pet jobs.

[Lithera]

Or at least not enough to actually want to fix them properly. :/

[Olor]

Well, seeing as though they just shot down my thread about Drachen Roll & Beast Roll for COR ("working as intended" they say), it seems quite obvious the Development Team doesn't give a rat's rectal cavity about pet jobs.

I cannot even believe that.

"These rolls which no one uses ever, are fine as is even though they are pretty much entirely useless"

[Mitruya]

I thought perhaps I would summarize our grievances in a list for the reps to pass on to the developers. Let me know if I missed something!

- Balance pet jobs so that they are more than just solo jobs (there's no good reason for endgame to be designed in such a way as to exclude jobs)
- Allow pets to be healed by magic and waltzes
- Allow pets to be affected by the same enhancing magic and COR rolls that the master has on/allow these to be cast directly onto the pet
- Allow pets to receive the master's food effects and/or introduce pet-specific food
- Increase pet accuracy
- Increase pet defense/survivability
- Make dawn mulsums stack please!
- Reduce timers (Call Beast, Call Wyvern, Reward, Repair, etc.)
- Increase Maneuver duration and/or reduce JA delay

[Jinzha]

Well, seeing as though they just shot down my thread about Drachen Roll & Beast Roll for COR ("working as intended" they say), it seems quite obvious the Development Team doesn't give a rat's rectal cavity about pet jobs.

I can't tell you how many times I've read "The development team has no intentions of..." In response to a suggestion. They pretend we have some power to influence their decisions but they're really doing what they want to do.

[Olor]

I thought perhaps I would summarize our grievances in a list for the reps to pass on to the developers. Let me know if I missed something!

- Balance pet jobs so that they are more than just solo jobs (there's no good reason for endgame to be designed in such a way as to exclude jobs)
- Allow pets to be healed by magic and waltzes
- Allow pets to be affected by the same enhancing magic and COR rolls that the master has on/allow these to be cast directly onto the pet
- Allow pets to receive the master's food effects and/or introduce pet-specific food
- Increase pet accuracy
- Increase pet defense/survivability
- Make dawn mulsums stack please!
- Reduce timers (Call Beast, Call Wyvern, Reward, Repair, etc.)
- Increase Maneuver duration and/or reduce JA delay

Going to say this is just about perfect.

[WoW]

Great ideas OP. Vote.

However, imo, pet jobs, like other jobs not named Rng, Whm, Brd, Cor, War, are useful; it is due to the negative connotations the community attach to these jobs more-so than the Devs. Not every job is a War; or gains rapid tp like a Sam, thus it is deemed useless for endgame. Imo, the only way other jobs will get accepted is if they make them Sam/Pld/Whm spin offs.

I do not like 14 very much; however, they do a good job of avoiding these types of instances; players shunning out more than half of the playable jobs. Not saying it can not happen; but it is much more prevalent in XI.

[Mitruya]

I have to give some credit for DRG being somewhat wanted over PUP BST SMN, but man, the timed content just goes by in such a blur (and I don't have a lot of practice with it) that I can't figure out how to keep my wyvern alive even with Spirit Link and Steady Wing. Tbh I'm not sure what damage the pet is even doing on the bosses due to all the chat spam. I'm going to reiterate that the 20 min timer on Call Wyvern is ridiculous, and Dawn Mulsums really should stack. (then maybe I'd remember to use them ^^; ) Having Curaga hit the wyvern also would be so great, and the mages would not be wasting mp to target it, it would just be an added bonus to help extend its life.

[Jinzha]

Great ideas OP. Vote.

However, imo, pet jobs, like other jobs not named Rng, Whm, Brd, Cor, War, are useful; it is due to the negative connotations the community attach to these jobs more-so than the Devs. Not every job is a War; or gains rapid tp like a Sam, thus it is deemed useless for endgame. Imo, the only way other jobs will get accepted is if they make them Sam/Pld/Whm spin offs.

I do not like 14 very much; however, they do a good job of avoiding these types of instances; players shunning out more than half of the playable jobs. Not saying it can not happen; but it is much more prevalent in XI.

I have to slightly disagree. The thread isn't arguing to make pet jobs into a equivalent samurai or paladin, but simply to make them relevant in group content by making them better at doing their own job. As of right now BST and PUP's pets can't hit any high level content like difficult or very difficult new battlefields or delve bosses. We're arguing that it's unfair that our pets have a maximum of 10% accuracy on high level content because they don't have enough accuracy. Whenever I play puppetmaster in delve I can only use white Mage pet because my ranger and paladin pet simply cannot hit. It's silly that I'm losing out on half of my potential damage because my pet doesn't have enough accuracy. Pet jobs aren't being forced out of group content because of negative connotations but because they fall behind damage wise in group content because their pet can't hit or survive. We don't want to be a Sam or pld knock off... We simply want to be able to use our pets or else what is the point of having pet jobs?

EDIT: In summary I think this is the development team's fault and not because of negative connotations, and pet jobs are not as 'useful' as they should be. They are useful in solo content, but not so much in group/high level content.

[WoW]

I have to slightly disagree. The thread isn't arguing to make pet jobs into a equivalent samurai or paladin, but simply to make them relevant in group content by making them better at doing their own job. As of right now BST and PUP's pets can't hit any high level content like difficult or very difficult new battlefields or delve bosses. We're arguing that it's unfair that our pets have a maximum of 10% accuracy on high level content because they don't have enough accuracy. Whenever I play puppetmaster in delve I can only use white Mage pet because my ranger and paladin pet simply cannot hit. It's silly that I'm losing out on half of my potential damage because my pet doesn't have enough accuracy. Pet jobs aren't being forced out of group content because of negative connotations but because they fall behind damage wise in group content because their pet can't hit or survive. We don't want to be a Sam or pld knock off... We simply want to be able to use our pets or else what is the point of having pet jobs?

Bst has one of the best ws in the game, as well as gear that can be wore by wars, sam, drk, etc. The pet boost was nice, my pet does decent damage with the pet ws boost update.



The suggestions were nice; however, that may make pets somewhat equal to players, thus pet jobs will be the new fad and other jobs would complain. Do not forget that the master counts towards the bst, pup and drg total dmg as well; it could be somewhat broken. I mean; could you imagine if they released a new tiger jug? Or a scorpion? Food, Cor rolls, Songs, geo spells could be pretty nasty on those two. From what I am reading; you guys want pets to be respectable dds; Combined with the master's damage, other jobs may be excluded. A ruinator doing somewhere close to your fellow DD ws combined with a food/fully buffed pet could be a massive amount of damage.

I am all for this, i mean...I am a bst also,lol, not arguing, I just do not see this happening.

Edit: A group of Bst with some Geo, Cor, and Bards using unleash could become a new fad. Just spam Dawns and use ready moves.

Edit 2: Bst pets appear to be stronger than their wild counterparts atm; minus the pets that had moves removed. Our pets becoming any stronger would equal a pocket 119 NM to some degree, lol; but hey, as a bst, I am all for it.

[Jinzha]

Bst has one of the best ws in the game, as well as gear that can be wore by wars, sam, drk, etc. The pet boost was nice, my pet does decent damage with the pet ws boost update.



The suggestions were nice; however, that may make pets somewhat equal to players, thus pet jobs will be the new fad and other jobs would complain. Do not forget that the master counts towards the bst, pup and drg total dmg as well; it could be somewhat broken. I mean; could you imagine if they released a new tiger jug? Or a scorpion? Food, Cor rolls, Songs, geo spells could be pretty nasty on those two. From what I am reading; you guys want pets to be respectable dds; Combined with the master's damage, other jobs may be excluded. A ruinator doing somewhere close to your fellow DD ws combined with a food/fully buffed pet could be a massive amount of damage.

I am all for this, i mean...I am a bst also,lol, not arguing, I just do not see this happening.

Edit: A group of Bst with some Geo, Cor, and Bards using unleash could become a new fad. Just spam Dawns and use ready moves.

Edit 2: Bst pets appear to be stronger than their wild counterparts atm; minus the pets that had moves removed. Our pets becoming any stronger would equal a pocket 119 NM to some degree, lol; but hey, as a bst, I am all for it.

I don't believe any of the additions that this thread has asked for will make the jobs overpowering and if you care to know why I feel this way, just look at my previous posts. My biggest problem with the point you're making is that it means that one job will always be more useful than another. If pet jobs get any boosts then they'll become more powerful than normal jobs then normal jobs will complain and ask to be buffed better than pet jobs creating a vicious cycle of updates. All we simply want is for the playing fields to be leveled and not for pet jobs to be overpowered. We want to be able to play any content on our favorite jobs instead of being forced to play brd, cor, or monk if we ever want access to good gear. Jobs need to be balanced better and that's all this thread is about.

[Mitruya]

I'm not sure that if any of my wishlist above were granted it would suddenly make us bandwagon jobs that would cause the princesses to complain; it would instead just keep us from being laughed at when we ask to be invited. Even just the basics of reduced timers, reduced JA delay (or extended maneuver duration at least), better pet accuracy and better pet survivability would make them a tad more efficient, like Jinzha says, "better at doing their own job."
A DRG might as well not even have a pet for instance, no one asks me to come because of the little flying creature, they just want piercing damage and Angon. The little guy can't stay alive in Delve or AA so he's pretty much pointless.
I don't expect PUP to become MNK 2.0, and it's great that we have Repair and Deus Ex Machina, but again the little puppet can't hit for crap and can't survive all the AOEs. The extra WHM can be helpful but most people would just rather bring a better DD.

[WoW]

I don't believe any of the additions that this thread has asked for will make the jobs overpowering and if you care to know why I feel this way, just look at my previous posts. My biggest problem with the point you're making is that it means that one job will always be more useful than another. If pet jobs get any boosts then they'll become more powerful than normal jobs then normal jobs will complain and ask to be buffed better than pet jobs creating a vicious cycle of updates. All we simply want is for the playing fields to be leveled and not for pet jobs to be overpowered. We want to be able to play any content on our favorite jobs instead of being forced to play brd, cor, or monk if we ever want access to good gear. Jobs need to be balanced better and that's all this thread is about.

Yes, but I feel that bst are what they are; a job that uses animals to aid them in combat. Our pets are stronger than their wild counterparts. food, songs, geo, rolls is a little excessive imo. I am on board with all of this, however, you can play content on any job you please; it has more to do with the community more-so than the devs (imo). For instance, Run can tank (differently than Nin and pld), pet jobs can DD (differently than most). A fully buffed pet + unleash alliance + Dawns may equal abuse. Imagine what a lvl 119 tiger or scorpion jug spamming their ready moves could do. Fun times, but it may be a little too much.

I agree with Grim to an extent; but imo; bst are one step away from being overpowered; hence is why Falcorr mysteriously won the poll over the scorpion..hmmm. Can you imagine a fully buffed army of scorpions with songs, rolls, Geo spells, and food. Sharp Strike + death scissor spam with unleash..........Wow. I am a career bst and I am not going to front; a scorpion jug with all of that will be overpowered; there is no way it could not be....combine that with ruinator.

Again, I am not arguing with you guys/gals idea's; I just do not see it happening. I want this too; I am a bst; would love to be overpowered (Rawr)^^

Personally, I want that scorpion jug that we should have gotten; I will be happy with that. SE should also take a page from monstrosity in regard to our jug pet's tp usage. That ready meter is meh.....

[Jinzha]

Yes, but I feel that bst are what they are; a job that uses animals to aid them in combat. Our pets are stronger than their wild counterparts. food, songs, geo, rolls is a little excessive imo. I am on board with all of this, however, you can play content on any job you please; it has more to do with the community more-so than the devs (imo). For instance, Run can tank (differently than Nin and pld), pet jobs can DD (differently than most). A fully buffed pet + unleash alliance + Dawns may equal abuse. Imagine what a lvl 119 tiger or scorpion jug spamming their ready moves could do. Fun times, but it may be a little too much.

I agree with Grim to an extent; but imo; bst are one step away from being overpowered; hence is why Falcorr mysteriously won the poll over the scorpion..hmmm. Can you imagine a fully buffed army of scorpions with songs, rolls, Geo spells, and food. Sharp Strike + death scissor spam with unleash..........Wow. I am a career bst and I am not going to front; a scorpion jug with all of that will be overpowered; there is no way it could not be....combine that with ruinator.

Again, I am not arguing with you guys/gals idea's; I just do not see it happening. I want this too; I am a bst; would love to be overpowered (Rawr)^^

Personally, I want that scorpion jug that we should have gotten; I will be happy with that. SE should also take a page from monstrosity in regard to our jug pet's tp usage. That ready meter is meh.....
Have you tried difficult, very difficult, or delve content on bst? The master can hit but the pet can't. I just don't see how anyone could be satisfied with a job that can't do anything against high level content. Honestly even if people were to start using bst strategies to fight monsters because they're slightly overpowered, I'd welcome it. It's a better option than bst not being used at all ever., and it would open doors to different strategies with pet jobs. Pet jobs used to be used all the time in high level content to beat down tough monsters like Kirin back at 75 cap, and now they amount to nothing. If you feel ok with the position bst is in then I respect that but to me and probably the rest of us, we'd like to see pet jobs integrated back into high level content. A pet should be as strong or stronger than a player because that's the way it had always been. Only after the level cap from 75 to 119 did pets become weaker than players and the pets because the development team forgot to keep pets up to date.

Also I just can't agree that pets jobs are not used because of negative connotations. I have the best gear pup can get including kenkonken (119 mythic) and divinator (119 pet) and capped pet accuracy.With the best gear, my pet still can't do anything in high level content. When I was fighting aa mithra on difficult, my rng pet didn't even get 50 tp the entire fight and died about 10 times. If I have the best gear and my pet still can't do anything, something isn't right.

The negative connotations are because pet jobs can't compete with other jobs. Our jobs are holding us back from group content and not negative connotations. Most of the elite ffxi players who create the strategies to defeat high level content are number crunchers. You can look up online and find dps charts to calculate top damage dealing jobs. You'll find that when you equip pet jobs with the best gear vs normal jobs, they always fall behind damage wise in comparison to other jobs, especially bst. I'm not getting how you feel bst is already overpowered because when I look at the numbers, they put out little damage. Even when I play bst, it's damage and playability is really just unsatisfying in comparison to jobs like mnk in high level content.

[Mitruya]

I remember pet jobs being encouraged for group content like VW and Abyssea, then bam SoA comes along, and I wonder wth happened to make them fall behind so much. Everything is so gimmicky and time-based now, even BLUs, RDMs, THFs, NINs, and DNCs aren't feeling the love right now either in the name of efficiency. 16 out of 22 jobs shouldn't be made to feel like they are for solo play/low level content only. Why give us all this ilvl 115-119 gear if all we're good for is soloing reives?

[WoW]

Have you tried difficult, very difficult, or delve content on bst? The master can hit but the pet can't. I just don't see how anyone could be satisfied with a job that can't do anything against high level content. Honestly even if people were to start using bst strategies to fight monsters because they're slightly overpowered, I'd welcome it. It's a better option than bst not being used at all ever., and it would open doors to different strategies with pet jobs. Pet jobs used to be used all the time in high level content to beat down tough monsters like Kirin back at 75 cap, and now they amount to nothing. If you feel ok with the position bst is in then I respect that but to me and probably the rest of us, we'd like to see pet jobs integrated back into high level content. A pet should be as strong or stronger than a player because that's the way it had always been. Only after the level cap from 75 to 119 did pets become weaker than players and the pets because the development team forgot to keep pets up to date.

Also I just can't agree that pets jobs are not used because of negative connotations. I have the best gear pup can get including kenkonken (119 mythic) and divinator (119 pet) and capped pet accuracy.With the best gear, my pet still can't do anything in high level content. When I was fighting aa mithra on difficult, my rng pet didn't even get 50 tp the entire fight and died about 10 times. If I have the best gear and my pet still can't do anything, something isn't right.

The negative connotations are because pet jobs can't compete with other jobs. Our jobs are holding us back from group content and not negative connotations. Most of the elite ffxi players who create the strategies to defeat high level content are number crunchers. You can look up online and find dps charts to calculate top damage dealing jobs. You'll find that when you equip pet jobs with the best gear vs normal jobs, they always fall behind damage wise in comparison to other jobs, especially bst. I'm not getting how you feel bst is already overpowered because when I look at the numbers, they put out little damage. Even when I play bst, it's damage and playability is really just unsatisfying in comparison to jobs like mnk in high level content.

Fair enough, but overpowering them may not be the answer. The negative connotations do exist; Lolpup existed pre-delve despite its efficacy. Ppl also believed that ninjas could not hold hate lvl in early lvls, but i was one of the crazy ppl that tossed shurikens and had no issues holding hate. Pet job enthusiast like me and you may welcome this, but that will make other jobs expendable. Why heal a Sam when you can just unleash and dawn the boss until it dies?

If they were to buff the pets beyond belief just for the sake of very difficult content; these jobs may become broken on content outside of difficult/very difficult. Also, if pets were stronger than the master; that may equate to two efficient dds. Actually, a dd that is stronger than a bst alone are sams, wars, rngs, etc, so essentially, we have a pocket lvl119 uber dd. Ruinator is one of the best ws in the game; add that to a pet that is stronger than the master and you have a pocket 119 war. If they ever decide to add the scorpion jug; other dds might as well pack it up, you are not needed; scorpion jug + unleash + dawns please.

I mean think about it....scorpions have been in the game since like, what? day one? Why have they not been implemented as pets yet? They even allowed us to call uncharmable mobs before they implemented a scorpion. Imo, they fear bst; that scorpion jug alone will take bst over the top without the suggestions in this thread. Missions have no difficulty settings; thus a bst could solo through these with ease; no group needed.

They can increase pet acc, however, just release a pet JA ability, similar to focus.

Imo, not all mobs are created equal; that is just one issue. As you mentioned, accuracy can be a problem; to an extent. This, added to the pets that they have chosen to give us. Scorpions and Hippos may be the best dd. The hippo we received is stronger than its wild counterpart, however, its' best trait was taken away (Fantod + Ws). Also, Give us a tp bar similar to monstrosity; get rid of the ready crap.

Unleash has to be taken into account when boosting these pets; this is one of the most unique two hrs; it is a jug away from being overpowered. Bst is not perfect, i just believe that these suggestions are a little too much.

[Mitruya]

I haven't played BST in forever and had no idea about those things. But you have to admit, it's fun to dream about a situation like you describe isn't it? ;p Imagine the day when shouts say "pet jobs only," like a Revenge of the Nerds-type satisfaction. lol
But Jinzha stated his/her PUP is geared to the max and still underperforms. That is inexcusable, and makes striving for those high-level items pointless.

[dasva]

Unleash has to be taken into account when boosting these pets; this is one of the most unique two hrs; it is a jug away from being overpowered. Bst is not perfect, i just believe that these suggestions are a little too much.

It's basically the same thing as smns sp2... and it would take a jug that is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more powerful than what we got now to make it overpowered by comparison. I mean best ready move is going to do what 2-3k on anything over 100 meanwhile smns bping for 15-20k <.<

[Jinzha]

Fair enough, but overpowering them may not be the answer. The negative connotations do exist; Lolpup existed pre-delve despite its efficacy. Ppl also believed that ninjas could not hold hate lvl in early lvls, but i was one of the crazy ppl that tossed shurikens and had no issues holding hate. Pet job enthusiast like me and you may welcome this, but that will make other jobs expendable. Why heal a Sam when you can just unleash and dawn the boss until it dies?

If they were to buff the pets beyond belief just for the sake of very difficult content; these jobs may become broken on content outside of difficult/very difficult. Also, if pets were stronger than the master; that may equate to two efficient dds. Actually, a dd that is stronger than a bst alone are sams, wars, rngs, etc, so essentially, we have a pocket lvl119 uber dd. Ruinator is one of the best ws in the game; add that to a pet that is stronger than the master and you have a pocket 119 war. If they ever decide to add the scorpion jug; other dds might as well pack it up, you are not needed; scorpion jug + unleash + dawns please.

I mean think about it....scorpions have been in the game since like, what? day one? Why have they not been implemented as pets yet? They even allowed us to call uncharmable mobs before they implemented a scorpion. Imo, they fear bst; that scorpion jug alone will take bst over the top without the suggestions in this thread. Missions have no difficulty settings; thus a bst could solo through these with ease; no group needed.

They can increase pet acc, however, just release a pet JA ability, similar to focus.

Imo, not all mobs are created equal; that is just one issue. As you mentioned, accuracy can be a problem; to an extent. This, added to the pets that they have chosen to give us. Scorpions and Hippos may be the best dd. The hippo we received is stronger than its wild counterpart, however, its' best trait was taken away (Fantod + Ws). Also, Give us a tp bar similar to monstrosity; get rid of the ready crap.

Unleash has to be taken into account when boosting these pets; this is one of the most unique two hrs; it is a jug away from being overpowered. Bst is not perfect, i just believe that these suggestions are a little too much.

Grimlocke mentioned the same thing that pet jobs will become overpowered outside of group content with the implementation of the OP suggestions and I'll say it again. Pet jobs won't be stronger outside of group content based off of the adding cures and songs /rolls to pets because you must have people with you in order to receive the benefits. Any player who has access to cures and buffs outside of high level group content will be overpowered regardless if it's a normal job or a pet job so I don't believe it is giving any unfair advantages.
But honestly allowing pets to receive buffs and food effects are what I really want. I don't believe anyone can argue that a pet job will become overpowered with the those two implementations because that's just accuracy and haste that pets should have had from the start. The only controversial thing this thread is asking for is pets being able to receive cures. I do believe that pets should be able to receive cures because it would alleviate all the high costs of pet cures and Muslims while also increasing their survivability, but I could live without it. In the end, all I want is a solution to pets accuracy issue and surviving issues.

[Jinzha]

It's basically the same thing as smns sp2... and it would take a jug that is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more powerful than what we got now to make it overpowered by comparison. I mean best ready move is going to do what 2-3k on anything over 100 meanwhile smns bping for 15-20k <.<
Ya and if summoner's 1 hour hasn't been nurfed, I'm sure the game developers aren't too worried about bst 1 hour being overpowered, even with scorpion, buffs, and cures. And say they do add scorpion, they might not even let you use death scissors or its other top tier moves. It wouldn't be the first time they nurfed a jug pet so it wasn't overpowered.

[WoW]

It's basically the same thing as smns sp2... and it would take a jug that is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more powerful than what we got now to make it overpowered by comparison. I mean best ready move is going to do what 2-3k on anything over 100 meanwhile smns bping for 15-20k <.<


That will change drastically with the addition of scorpion jugs or the aforementioned pet buffs; I mean, food, songs, rolls, Geo spells, lol. Imagine a tiger or a scorpion with all of that. Sharp strike and spam death scissors. Keep in mind the master is a DD as well. Smns are not dds, the pets are.

[WoW]

Grimlocke mentioned the same thing that pet jobs will become overpowered outside of group content with the implementation of the OP suggestions and I'll say it again. Pet jobs won't be stronger outside of group content based off of the adding cures and songs /rolls to pets because you must have people with you in order to receive the benefits. Any player who has access to cures and buffs outside of high level group content will be overpowered regardless if it's a normal job or a pet job so I don't believe it is giving any unfair advantages.
But honestly allowing pets to receive buffs and food effects are what I really want. I don't believe anyone can argue that a pet job will become overpowered with the those two implementations because that's just accuracy and haste that pets should have had from the start. The only controversial thing this thread is asking for is pets being able to receive cures. I do believe that pets should be able to receive cures because it would alleviate all the high costs of pet cures and Muslims while also increasing their survivability, but I could live without it. In the end, all I want is a solution to pets accuracy issue and surviving issues.

Trust npcs, friends, dual boxing, however, I will give you that.

I ask you this though, with all those buffs and unleash; would you need any other dd? If so, why? Pets are much safer than a sam going ham on a boss.

Bst do not feel this is overpowered; because pet jobs are the beneficiaries and they believe they have been in the gutter for years; as Mitruya mentioned; it would be cool to look down on other jobs. However, an update like this would kill off every non pet dd, now we are back to square one. How do we balance non-pet jobs to compete with pet jobs? Pets can be boosted, but this may be a little too much imo (As a bst, I hope they do it, but why would they kill off other dds)? In exp parties, a pet with food, brd,cor, geo, would destroy any other dd; due to the master being able to dish out damage.

Imo, just give us a scorpion jug, more pet JAs (Useful ones, acc, att, magic att, defense bonus) and get rid of the ready bar and give us a monstrosity esque tp system. The long awaited scorpion jug would never get released if they were to implement such a buff. Again, what dd could compete with a scorpion using food, buffs, sharp strike, and death scissors. Not to mention the master is a respectable dd.

[WoW]

Ya and if summoner's 1 hour hasn't been nurfed, I'm sure the game developers aren't too worried about bst 1 hour being overpowered, even with scorpion, buffs, and cures. And say they do add scorpion, they might not even let you use death scissors or its other top tier moves. It wouldn't be the first time they nurfed a jug pet so it wasn't overpowered.

Then why release it? You basically have a jug with what...poison sting? Breath attacks? scorpions are what? dark or War type mobs; not very durable, therefore it will have no use by the bst community. I will give you this, a scorpion without death scissors will not be overpowered; even with the aforementioned buffs, it would be rather weak, thus ppl would stick to the overpowered tiger or birdie making the scorpion implementation obsolete.This is by far my biggest grip with bst; the removal of useful traits. If they will not even give us native mob abilities, I do not see them letting us use food and buffs.

Edit: Other top tier moves could include sharp strike making the scorp trash compared to other pets; even the capped ones.

[WoW]

I would like to see a dev response to this when applicable; it appears to be an interesting topic nonetheless. I am just curious if there are any future plans for pet jobs or perhaps that scorpion jug that won the poll awhile ago "Wink".

[Olor]

Dear dev/community team - why is this thread being ignored?

[Dulek]

Dear dev/community team - why is this thread being ignored?

Requesting same information, and would like something more detailed than the usual "we have no plans" response.

[Jinzha]

Can Camate or one of the other community reps just respond to the thread and just let us know you guys have read it and sent it in to the developers? You guys are really leaving us in the dark right now and we're not sure what's going on. One message isn't that difficult. Even if you don't have relevant information at this particular moment we would like to know that, and it would make us feel better to know someone has at least acknowledged the thread.

[Camate]

Hello, everyone.

Rest assured that the development team has not forgotten about pets, nor are they ignoring your feedback. Everything is being taken in and considered for adjustments.

The first adjustment that they are planning, as we mentioned previously, is the addition of food that will affect both the master and the pet. Amongst this new food, there will be accuracy enhancing food, much like sushi, that will increase the accuracy for both the master and the pet. These new foods will be added in the next version update.

Also, due to the fact that pets cannot receive enhancements from songs and such, the development team is planning to make the effect received from food higher for pets than what the player receives.

Before any further adjustments are made, we’d like to start by implementing this first and monitoring the situation for a while. After the version update is live, please be sure to try out the food and let us know your feedback.

[Olor]

Hello, everyone.

Rest assured that the development team has not forgotten about pets, nor are they ignoring your feedback. Everything is being taken in and considered for adjustments.

The first adjustment that they are planning, as we mentioned previously, is the addition of food that will affect both the master and the pet. Amongst this new food, there will be accuracy enhancing food, much like sushi, that will increase the accuracy for both the master and the pet. These new foods will be added in the next version update.

Also, due to the fact that pets cannot receive enhancements from songs and such, the development team is planning to make the effect received from food higher for pets than what the player receives.

Before any further adjustments are made, we’d like to start by implementing this first and monitoring the situation for a while. After the version update is live, please be sure to try out the food and let us know your feedback.

I appreciate this as a beginning Camate, but I hope the development team remembers that BST currently is probably the MOST expensive job to play in the game. So I dearly hope this food is made of reasonable to obtain materials. Buffs cost nothing. If I have to spend tons of gil on food for my pet as well as the food I already have to spend because my pet dies in a minute if I don't spam reward AS WELL AS unstackable mulsims AS WELL AS the pets themselves, it is not going to help at all.

[Shadax]

the development team is planning to make the effect received from food higher for pets than what the player receives.

Olive branch accepted for now, but this had better be pretty amazing food (at reasonable costs as Olor said). It's quite sad that I can solo almost twice as effectively on BLU in SoA areas than I can on BST which was the original solo job.

[bigdave]

ranger is by far the most expensive job to play not bst

[WoW]

Nice to see a reply; vote up^^ I completely understand; just because you guys are mum, does not mean you have tuned us out. The food sounds great; I have no clue how this will work but I am excited to see it^^

However, I still believe that better jug pet selections and the absence of move removals would solve a fair share of issues pertaining to bsts specifically. Wivres, Gnoles, Uragnites, Gnat, Wamoura, and Morbols (Minus extremely bad breath), would all of their abilities intact will improve our efficiency alone. If certain moves are deemed too powerful, perhaps allow them to be used while under the effect of run wild only, to give that JA some use. I truly hate the removal of native pet moves with a passion. However, I do appreciate the speedy response; cannot wait to see this new food^^

[WoW]

ranger is by far the most expensive job to play not bst

I agree with this; As a bst, I actually use jugs and make money off of them. Farming sucks, but the mats are fairly common; minus the mandy I believe; but he sucks imo anyway, lol^^

[Olor]

ranger is by far the most expensive job to play not bst

Doesn't ranger have 90+ recycle rate? My pets have 0% recycle rate - and you don't have to heal your bullets to ensure they do damage.... Please also note - RNG gets invited to endgame content. BST costs a lot AND is not welcome in real endgame.


I agree with this; As a bst, I actually use jugs and make money off of them. Farming sucks, but the mats are fairly common; minus the mandy I believe; but he sucks imo anyway, lol^^

There is not a single activity I have found yet where I make more money as a BST than as a different job that costs $0 to play. Dynamis? Thf (even gimped it makes more money than BST) Voidwatch? BLU. Meebles? BLU (also doesn't make much money), BCNM? BLU or THF.

What exactly can BST do in terms of making money that other jobs can't do without spending a cent?

[WoW]

Doesn't ranger have 90+ recycle rate? My pets have 0% recycle rate - and you don't have to heal your bullets to ensure they do damage.... Please also note - RNG gets invited to endgame content. BST costs a lot AND is not welcome in real endgame.



There is not a single activity I have found yet where I make more money as a BST than as a different job that costs $0 to play. Dynamis? Thf (even gimped it makes more money than BST) Voidwatch? BLU. Meebles? BLU (also doesn't make much money), BCNM? BLU or THF.

What exactly can BST do in terms of making money that other jobs can't do without spending a cent?

I do not spend a dime on jugs. If i do; I am in a rush/being lazy because I can make them. I practically give away jugs and food for free. I get a ton of Akaso and other jug materials from harvesting; synergy makes 6 of them; I usually sell the left overs which can lead to alot of $$$. Any job can make money; jugs just have never been a major issue obtaining (Can only speak from my experience; I am a cook and synergist); more so their efficacy and the removal of moves were my only gripe. I do not mind spending money; however, our current pet selection and the mysterious removal of moves does not equate to the price; so i do not buy them, lol; I make them. They are not worth it imo, i will say that. my jug can last me through an activity the majority of the time; however, rngs are constantly firing off $$$. Regardless of the difficulty, rngs need those bullets and arrows to be..well..a job. I do not go through pets like a rng does ammo. perhaps there are rngs that make their own ammo, however, they are constantly firing them off which can still be a headache even with traits.

Imo, if they release a a lvl119 Wivre jug with boiling blood, the -50% attack down roar, crippling slam and granite hide, no one would be complaining if it cost 400k a stack; because it is worth it. Pet acc can become an issue. however, a non-gimped pet would solve alot of problems.

Edit: People may still complain; lol, however, the pet's efficacy may trumps the the price in most instances. i mean, ppl complain about reforged armor material prices, but most may buy them because the efficacy may trump the price in some instances.

[Debmaeda]

The first adjustment that they are planning, as we mentioned previously, is the addition of food that will affect both the master and the pet. Amongst this new food, there will be accuracy enhancing food, much like sushi, that will increase the accuracy for both the master and the pet. These new foods will be added in the next version update.

Also, due to the fact that pets cannot receive enhancements from songs and such, the development team is planning to make the effect received from food higher for pets than what the player receives.

Before any further adjustments are made, we’d like to start by implementing this first and monitoring the situation for a while. After the version update is live, please be sure to try out the food and let us know your feedback.

Let me save the game developers some time. That will not be a good enough "fix" to make Pet Jobs desirable for 115+ group content. Mind you that Ramuh Shocksqual and Geomancer Nuking may be among the few exceptions, but they were not of intentional design.

I remember a very long time ago, seeing a Bst buff a charmed bat in Garlaige Citedal with protect. Whether or not it was an intended game-play mechanic at that time is irrelevant at this time. What is relevant is that the ability to buff pets can be implemented, because at one time, it did in-fact exist.

Food for pets is not going to cut it at this stage in FFXI's life. A few years ago it might have been a great addition, but at this point it will not turn a pet into an i119 DD, tank, or nuker. Pets can easily destroy opponents beneath their own level, but when it comes to fighting one's that are above them, it becomes a matter of spamming pets until the opponent is dead. Spamming DDs; spamming tanks; spamming nukers, has never been the best of strategies in FFXI, it has always been a last ditch effort to bring down an opponent that just has the power to wreck anything in its path, or it reaches a point where it just rampages. The reason PCs have a better shot at winning in such circumstances, is do to offensive and defensive buffs AND curing from other PCs.

All the Pet job Job Abilities that buff pets and the trace amounts of -petdamage on gear do not compare to Cure IV, V; they do not compare to Protect V and Shell V, they do not compare to Regen V, they do not compare to Elemental Barspells, they do not compare to Madrigal, Minuet, or Scherzo, they do not compare to Chaos Roll. Those things I just previously mentioned are what keep players alive or going in the most dire of circumstances against deadly foes. What do pets get? And in the case of Corsair, no intelligent or sane group is going to allow Corsair's to use their rolls to buff pets instead of players.

The Dev's response to this entire thread thus far is:

"We were making food for pets, but since you're unsatisfied with Pet Jobs' roles in the FFXI community at this time, we will increase its intended effects. We will then wait and see how that affects things."

That is not an acceptable response. That is a lawyer's dodge to the topic at hand.

This thread's purpose was to implement the ability to cast Player buffs on pets. The Pet job community wants a direct response as to why what is being asked to be implemented would not be done so; and I say "would not", because it can be done, it just comes down to a matter of choice and reasoning by the development team.

I talked with Shin about this campaign of his, and I brought up Stymie as an example to point out the Dev's attitude toward the players. We play "THEIR" game, but it's a game they themselves don't even play. That is fact I have never liked.

I would like to thank the Community Reps for their continued role as go-between for us Players and the Game Developers. You provide the through-way for the language barrier that separates our two groups, and I personally appreciate your continued presence and efforts. Thank you very much.

[Glamdring]

Olor, outside instanced content my bst is back to using charmed pets, cuts that bite in the wallet way down, especially since I don't care if my pet dies, I'll just grab another. and I don't have great charm gear. just a thought.

and to the devs, how about some charmable pets in the instanced content? I miss doing things like a 6 beast Worm's turn BCNM and the like.

[Rwolf]

I agree with Olor, Beastmaster is currently really expensive compared to other classes. If you decided to level Cooking and make your own resources, that's awesome. But it shouldn't be a requirement to be cost effective. It's the same argument people use to give for Ranger, to raise Woodworking and Smithing to play the job.

Ranger has an absurd amount of Recycle. Which is on also on gear that is worth using for damage and with Relic Cap, considerably boosts your damage. Plus Ranger has Scavenge to return a good deal of that 10% ammo spent. Even Ninja and Corsair have abilities and gear that reduce their consumption of items. Not only that but have universal tools to even further reduce their inventory and gil loss. Beastmaster is growing to need more and more consumables with zero amounts of recovery or consolidation of inventory.

Charmed pets are also are so incredibly weak now in level 100+ content compared to using a jug pet. It is basically just a free pet and no other pet job is so severely penalized with free pets. Pet food is a great step in the right direction for pet jobs but Beastmaster definitely needs cost reductions. I still see no reason why a Beastmaster pet can't zone with you and reappear you go into a city, if all other pets are capable of it. I don't see why jug pets need a duration timer either. I'm sure it doesn't make crafters happy but it didn't stop them when it came to Ninja, Ranger, and Corsair.

[Kombys]

Hey Camate pleease tell DEV team to add another forms to get bard songs example carnagey elegy has horrible drop rate or valor minuet 4, drop rate is too low and not many is interested to do old lv 60 bcnms anymore, if they could add those spells to new bcnms REM chapters, should be cool

[Donquichot]

Thank you for this response Camate. I just got 1 thing to ask, since i know the dev team can forget this. Please dont forget the pet: ranged accurracy stat when you are making new foods. I can really see them forget this stat because pup is the only job using this stat. thank you and i cant wait for next month!

[Psion]

While i'm glad to see pet acc food, and the fact their acc increase will be higher than the masters, it's going to need to be a MASSIVE boost to make pets relevant to endgame fights, physically. Here is a comparison of how massive it needs to be.

My automaton has this stats with 3 thunder maneuvers, dual stabilizers and optic fiber, dual tension springs, scope, +10 acc and ranged acc from hurch'lan sash, capped melee and ranged skill, and 5/5 melee and ranged merits:

-Oniwaka:

Primary acc: 752
Primary attack: 902
Ranged acc: 792
Ranged attack: 958

Now here are my own stats, without buffs, ninja sub, and just bream sushi. My gear isn't perfect either, but it's fairly good. I have a +2 niznas along with an average ilvl of 117. And no, none of it is espial or wayfarers, just reforged af, otronif +1, manibozho boots, and the like.

-Psion:

Primary acc: 929
Primary att: 862

Unlike my automaton, however, this is with capped gear haste, I can maintain this sort of stats fulltime while meleeing, and unlike oniwaka I don't get a new one torn within seconds because I have defensive buffs and someone to cure me. Even if you buff pets attacks, they are incredibly fragile on anything of importance. believe me, having done hard mode AA and delve runs as pup, i can testify just how fragile they are. Even the whm automaton can barely handle it, and it's only able to survive at all because it can cure itself right after a single AoE takes it down to nearly 100 hp left from full. Thats WITH the delve bosses having almost all their nasty moves being stunned.

And those are my stats without any buffs. with the typical bard and cor set up, my melee acc is more like 1000-1050ish depending on what buffs are being used, and i'm often /war, so my attack often hovers around 1000-1300. Even with that, I generally parse around 85-90% acc on hard mode fights, and just barely cap acc with sushi in delve 1 runs. That means oniwaka needs around 200 more melee acc and 150ish ranged acc just to not be at the acc floor for those runs. Considering sushi caps at around 59 acc or so depending on which type, this new pet sushi has to be almost 4 times as effective for the pet as for the master, and it has to be at least as good as normal sushi for the master to begin with. Now, I like to get my hopes up as much as the next guy, but I've played this game since zilart came out in NA, and I know that SE typically doesn't like to throw pet jobs much more than a small bone once in a while to choke on. I fully expect this new pet sushi to give around 60-80 acc, at best, to the pets, which does absolutely nothing to help us out.

By the way. us pups are still waiting on the dev team to fix attuner and target marker on ilvl mobs. You know, those things that are critical for our automatons to hit monsters higher level than us? Yeah, they're still broken after months of waiting. If tools that were critical to any other job were broken this long, such as warrior's berserk not giving an attack boost, there would be a massive outrage and an emergency maintenance within hours of it coming to light. Why has our job suffered this long without it being fixed when those alone would close the gap somewhat on pups massive accuracy issues? While your at it, why not change tension springs and stabilizers from static increases to % att and acc boosts? And considering our black mage automaton can't nuke for beans anymore, why not give us a new attachment that gives them a large magic damage boost like other mage jobs gets, and another that changes their AI from a teir V nuke every 30-40 seconds to spamming teir I spells constantly like black mages do now? (or teir II for higher magic accuracy if it detects teir I isnt enough) Fix these and pet survival issues and maybe, just maybe, you'd see pet jobs actually invited to events instead of having to force our friends to take us along with them, or change to another job. As it is, I have to gear entirely for myself as the puppetmaster and pretend my automaton is nothing more than a way to dump my hate, and occasional bonus cures. Some puppetmaster I am.

TD:LR

-new pet acc food has to be massive increases for the pet. like, at least 200 accuracy massive so that pets won't have floored acc on any fights that matter. Hard mode BCNMs, delve bosses, rakaznor skirmish, you name it.

-automatons target marker and attuner are still broken after months of waiting, despite them being critical attachments to a puppetmasters arsenal of tools on tougher fights. fix them, already. im serious. fix them now. not next update, not two updates from now. now. I don't care if you have to take the servers down for emergency maintenence, because it's an emergency, by the goddess.

-automatons nuking is sadly outdated, when before it was well balanced against black mage. the automatons nukes were far more powerful than a black mage, but they couldn't burst nuke like a black mage could. in the end, their damage was equal over time. Nowadays a summoner practically can toss a stone II for higher damage than my automatons ice makered, full powered, thunder V on mobs, and at far less time and mp. Automatons need a teir II tranquilizer, a new attachment that boosts their magic damage like the ilvl staves mages get to use now, and a new attachment that changes their behavior into spamming low teir nukes nonstop.

-pets in general are squishy. Why not take a page from ffxiv and make it so that pets don't take much damage from AoEs they aren't a direct target of? Considering pets are rarely the main target on harder fights, this would be a simple solution to pet survival issues, without promoting petburns to the exclusion of all other jobs.

-whatever fixes you have in mind, make them ridiculously overpowered, because your idea of overpowered is what the player base considered overpowered 6 years ago. triple the effects of whatever you have in mind and you just might get pet jobs in the right ballpark of being fixed. I know no one likes being nerfed, but the pet situation is so severe now after conservative fixes that haven't kept up with updates to other jobs, that no one will complain if you suddenly make pet jobs godlike then nerf it back to something more balanced. They will thank you far more than pet sushi with pet: acc +50.

(seriously, make that pet sushi give at least 200 acc and ranged acc to the pet.)

[Shinron-PUP]

Hello, everyone.

Rest assured that the development team has not forgotten about pets, nor are they ignoring your feedback. Everything is being taken in and considered for adjustments.

The first adjustment that they are planning, as we mentioned previously, is the addition of food that will affect both the master and the pet. Amongst this new food, there will be accuracy enhancing food, much like sushi, that will increase the accuracy for both the master and the pet. These new foods will be added in the next version update.

Also, due to the fact that pets cannot receive enhancements from songs and such, the development team is planning to make the effect received from food higher for pets than what the player receives.

Before any further adjustments are made, we’d like to start by implementing this first and monitoring the situation for a while. After the version update is live, please be sure to try out the food and let us know your feedback.

We are all truly grateful that the community reps and development team have taken out the time to respond to our pet job thread, but I think we're still getting no where even after your response. The development team should know very well that pet food alone isn't going to amend any of the issues pets and pet jobs face currently. Sadly this is just yet another little toy for us to play with so we're satisfied for a little while longer, then once we realize that it has done nothing to satisfy the problem, we'll be at it again asking for you guys to fix us.

The implementation of pet food is definitely a long awaited addition to pet jobs and is very welcomed, but it will at most only somewhat solve accuracy issues. What happens as content level progresses? The stats that food effects give are static and do not increase with character levels, so by the time we're dealing with higher level enemies in the future, when you guys decide to release new content, we'll just fall behind accuracy wise again then need to ask for another update to fix our accuracy. I'm sorry, but every solution you guys keep coming up with to fix pet jobs are all temporary solutions, and every year or two we keep running into the issue that pet jobs are out of date, and need some fine-tuning again. What we want is a solution that will stand the test of time. In two years we don't want to have to address the same issue again because once again pets can't hit monsters.

As players, it shouldn't be our job to remind you guys every time that pet jobs are out of date; pets being out of date shouldn't even happen. When you guys fix a problem, it should be a one time fix that is permanent, and not be a temporary fix that will again need to be addressed in the future as new content comes out. We pay to play Final Fantasy, and not to spend time on the forums trying to figure out solutions for you and remind you that there's a problem. I think it's safe to assume that everyone who has invested time in this thread have done so because we're tired of coming back year after year to address the same issues.

Please, all we are asking for is that you come up with a real solution. Accuracy, Attack, and other bonuses that food can add to pets are but a fraction of the problems that prevent pets and pet jobs from being compatible in end game and group content. I do realize that you said that adding food is but one of the many plans you guys have in store for pets, but we seriously shouldn't have to wait one to two years for you guys to finally get around to fixing the problem. The development team knows very well what the problems of pet jobs are: Accuracy, Attack, Survival, etc. and are very well aware of how to fix them, so please don't take the easy route by fixing one minor problem and expecting that to solve everything like pet food. It will take much more than that to solve the pet job issue once and for all.

[WoW]

I agree with Olor, Beastmaster is currently really expensive compared to other classes. If you decided to level Cooking and make your own resources, that's awesome. But it shouldn't be a requirement to be cost effective. It's the same argument people use to give for Ranger, to raise Woodworking and Smithing to play the job.

Ranger has an absurd amount of Recycle. Which is on also on gear that is worth using for damage and with Relic Cap, considerably boosts your damage. Plus Ranger has Scavenge to return a good deal of that 10% ammo spent. Even Ninja and Corsair have abilities and gear that reduce their consumption of items. Not only that but have universal tools to even further reduce their inventory and gil loss. Beastmaster is growing to need more and more consumables with zero amounts of recovery or consolidation of inventory.

Charmed pets are also are so incredibly weak now in level 100+ content compared to using a jug pet. It is basically just a free pet and no other pet job is so severely penalized with free pets. Pet food is a great step in the right direction for pet jobs but Beastmaster definitely needs cost reductions. I still see no reason why a Beastmaster pet can't zone with you and reappear you go into a city, if all other pets are capable of it. I don't see why jug pets need a duration timer either. I'm sure it doesn't make crafters happy but it didn't stop them when it came to Ninja, Ranger, and Corsair.

I see what you are saying; but if you do not lvl crafts, that is on you tho, no harm no foul; that is just the way it is. Even if I did not make my own; personally, jugs are not that expensive considering the various non-crafting money making methods in this game. Harvesting is pretty inexpensive; I get asked to make some jugs for ppl when they bring the mats; so you do not have to lvl a craft; but it is nice to have.

I do agree that it should not be necessary; however, how long have players been complaining about bst? Since its' release if I recall correctly. Bst has flawed mechanics to begin with. I honestly feel that if SE could go back in time and delete bst and pup from the game; they would do so. Charm has bad game-play mechanics, because wild animals are not always available and some are they are rather weak at 99. Jugs are a better concept, however, it leads to complaining about prices. Jugs should be obtained from a quest and be usable at will, but still have the same call beast timer restrictions. For instance; a quest that grants you a scorpion jug (yes, I am not letting this go, lol) which does not consume. Pet food should still be crafted because they are not essential; the pet is.

[Mitruya]

Although it's a start, I am skeptical about the food idea. The number of players that actually get to play group content on a pet job probably wont increase unless it makes a MASSIVE difference. We still need survivability addressed or we'll be burning gil on spamming this food every time the pet dies.
Also I wish I could give Shinron's and Psion's posts a billion likes because they pretty much sum up everything.

[Alhanelem]

Also, due to the fact that pets cannot receive enhancements from songs and such, the development team is planning to make the effect received from food higher for pets than what the player receives.Though I agree with others that this is a decent starting point, it would really be a lot better if you just let normal buffs and effects affect pets like every other MMO in existence. I really don't know why the devs are so averse to this. Pets are horrible at keeping enmity and can't tank against anything other than their master (PUP, SMN, BST), so its not like buffing and curing them means they're suddenly awesome tanks, nor does it mean that they're suddenly the best DPS ever because they can be buffed.

[WoW]

Monstrosity > Beast-Master.

But seriously, you guys/gals may be right as it pertains to these buffs overpowering the jugs. I do not believe jugs should be stronger than a lvl 119dd; but I seriously doubt these buffs would do that unless they released a true dd jug (I mean our current jugs are not exactly world beaters in abyssea on weaker mobs). I am no pup, drg, or smn, so i cannot speak on those three jobs. However, as it pertains to bst, they need a true dd jug or a unique ability exclusive to that jug. XI appears to be all about the ws atm; Sweeping gouge and molted plumage are just not cutting it; unless they release magic attack bonus food +50% or something (For plumage). Plumage scales beautifully with magic attack. If they released pet food or gear (To macro in) with a good chunk of this; damage could get pretty high, even on bosses. Seen it go over 7k in abyssea with magic attack atmas. I wish bst had more magic attack pet gear to macro in for Plumage as it appears to be the best ws on harder mobs; but that will not address the acc issues unless they include acc+ all food or allow multiple effects.

Edit: Not sure all this food/buff stuff is needed; just release true dd/tank jugs. Aka Scorpion/Wivre. I still shudder at the thought of pets being as strong as other dd.

[Rwolf]

I see what you are saying; but if you do not lvl crafts, that is on you tho, no harm no foul; that is just the way it is. Even if I did not make my own; personally, jugs are not that expensive considering the various non-crafting money making methods in this game. Harvesting is pretty inexpensive; I get asked to make some jugs for ppl when they bring the mats; so you do not have to lvl a craft; but it is nice to have.

Your logic is flawed and makes no sense. Just because you personally decided to max Cooking as your craft, does not make it a necessity. It doesn't matter how lucrative gil making on jugs is. It's no different than any other job that uses a high amount of expendables. In your logic, they might as well remove Recycle, Ninja Tool Expertise, Universal Tools, and Cardless Ability Use because you should just be able to craft your jobs needs or fund it.


I do agree that it should not be necessary; however, how long have players been complaining about bst? Since its' release if I recall correctly. Bst has flawed mechanics to begin with. I honestly feel that if SE could go back in time and delete bst and pup from the game; they would do so. Charm has bad game-play mechanics, because wild animals are not always available and some are they are rather weak at 99. Jugs are a better concept, however, it leads to complaining about prices. Jugs should be obtained from a quest and be usable at will, but still have the same call beast timer restrictions. For instance; a quest that grants you a scorpion jug (yes, I am not letting this go, lol) which does not consume. Pet food should still be crafted because they are not essential; the pet is.

I respect your belief because of the amount of time players have voiced concerns about Beastmaster and it's flawed mechanics, means they won't change anything or would delete the job if they could. However, there are others who would like to more constructively come up solutions, I don't see the point in deterring them. Olor was right that Beastmaster is currently one of the most expensive jobs to play through it's consumables. Saying that you harvest your own materials and make your items yourself does not change that fact. It simply means you are dedicated to your job and craft. Any job is less expensive if you farmed and crafted your own materials. The fact still stands that Beastmaster is currently the most expensive class to play in consumable items. Fact is also that every other job that has been plagued with rapid consumption of items has been alleviated in one way or another.

You seem to agree that it shouldn't be a necessary loss, and with that part I do agree with you.

Edited to add:
I'm not trying to sound condescending in my post, I just don't agree with the logic to craft as a solution. I think we all want more for Beastmaster in the end.

[WoW]

Your logic is flawed and makes no sense. Just because you personally decided to max Cooking as your craft, does not make it a necessity. It doesn't matter how lucrative gil making on jugs is. It's no different than any other job that uses a high amount of expendables. In your logic, they might as well remove Recycle, Ninja Tool Expertise, Universal Tools, and Cardless Ability Use because you should just be able to craft your jobs needs or fund it.



I respect your belief because of the amount of time players have voiced concerns about Beastmaster and it's flawed mechanics, means they won't change anything or would delete the job if they could. However, there are others who would like to more constructively come up solutions, I don't see the point in deterring them. Olor was right that Beastmaster is currently one of the most expensive jobs to play through it's consumables. Saying that you harvest your own materials and make your items yourself does not change that fact. It simply means you are dedicated to your job and craft. Any job is less expensive if you farmed and crafted your own materials. The fact still stands that Beastmaster is currently the most expensive class to play in consumable items. Fact is also that every other job that has been plagued with rapid consumption of items has been alleviated in one way or another.

You seem to agree that it shouldn't be a necessary loss, and with that part I do agree with you.

Edited to add:
I'm not trying to sound condescending in my post, I just don't agree with the logic to craft as a solution. I think we all want more for Beastmaster in the end.

Actually, it does make sense; i lvled cooking and thus have easy access to jugs. I do not make the rules; i just know how to play by them. There is no flaw in that; I lvl cooking and have no issue obtaining jugs, it is not really flawed imo. For instance, if someone takes the time to lvl a craft that can assist them; I do not see how that is flawed. These are just my personal experiences, lol. I also stated that jugs should not be consumable so ppl like yourself can obtain them. I did not program the game, lol. I just play it.

To your second point; your post appears to imply that not everyone lvls a craft or shares my dedication to bst; thus you cannot relate, because the job is expensive to you. Well....bst is not expensive or a hassle to me thus I cannot relate. I do not feel it needs alleviation, but i welcome it, because not everyone lvls cooking. It goes both ways, I do not feel your thinking is flawed, just because you did not lvl cooking; but that is just how it is atm, cooking helps. this is not 14 where crafts have no place in the game.

My main gripe is with the pet selection; they suck. I had a change of heart recently, if our jug selection continue to suck; it does not matter what they add to bst unless it overpowers them to extreme heights for the sake of hard content (Which may be a problem if they are sam or war like).

[Shadax]

we'll be burning gil on spamming this food every time the pet dies.

Oh, and don't forget the 120k stacks of antacid because I'm sure you'll have to remove the food effect from yourself before you can reapply it.

[Demonjustin]

COR rolls can give pets buffs already, that's a possibility, we know it is, there's no reason at all that BRD & COR buffs as a whole can't simply apply to pets. It wouldn't overpower them, even if it did, simply lower the amount, players get 100 Atk? Well pets only get 75, penalty incurred and tada balance achieved.

To say...
Also, due to the fact that pets cannot receive enhancements from songs and such, the development team is planning to make the effect received from food higher for pets than what the player receives.Only is true when you are talking about directly receiving such effects, but when it comes to getting them via the player it's entirely possible because that's what COR rolls already do, we know that. It's a poor excuse.

[Deifact]

Do GEO buffs affect pets? Logic makes me think any entity inside a GEO bubble would get the buff/debuff but this is SE... If not, it might do both GEO and pet jobs some good to have GEO buffs affect pets.

[Rubeus]

How about a "Domesticate" ability for BST, which would renew Charm without letting it wear off, usable every say, 5 minutes. Using it would then let you use "Adopt", so we could keep it as a stabled pet and call it up every, say, 15 minutes, kind of like PUP and DRG. You could even give it it's own inventory and let us equip "collars" or finally put a use to those monstrosity instincts that you seem so keen on everyone playing anyway. This and maybe a support-type automaton frame would go a long way. It would remove the cost from BST pets while still giving us our own unique playstyle and therefore positive monster correlation benefits, and let us puzzle-piece the traits we want our pets to have.

Just a thought.

[Olor]

We still need survivability addressed or we'll be burning gil on spamming this food every time the pet dies.


No we won't - because we can't even eat another food (since it affects us) until it wears off. Another massive problem with this "idea"

Well, unless I'm going to ALSO have to carry a stack of antacid on top of everything frigging else I have to carry as a BST

[WoW]

Monstrosity is what bst should have been; minus the absurd hp. Having a master that deals great deal of damage alone leaves the door open for possible overpowering.

Imo, the master should have been weak (Not smn weak); while the pet should be monstrosity like (Instincts and all that other crap). Now excuse me while I go play the real beastmaster (Monstrosity)

[Jinzha]

Hello, everyone.

Rest assured that the development team has not forgotten about pets, nor are they ignoring your feedback. Everything is being taken in and considered for adjustments.

The first adjustment that they are planning, as we mentioned previously, is the addition of food that will affect both the master and the pet. Amongst this new food, there will be accuracy enhancing food, much like sushi, that will increase the accuracy for both the master and the pet. These new foods will be added in the next version update.

Also, due to the fact that pets cannot receive enhancements from songs and such, the development team is planning to make the effect received from food higher for pets than what the player receives.

Before any further adjustments are made, we’d like to start by implementing this first and monitoring the situation for a while. After the version update is live, please be sure to try out the food and let us know your feedback.

I'm glad you guys finally decided to respond to us, that's all we wanted. I'm not going to spend to much time harping over the fact that just adding Food isn't going to solve anything, but instead I'll just wait patiently until the next version update. If pet food isn't up to everyone's expectations, which means a percentage based pet food that at least is +25% (200+) Accuracy and Ranged Accuracy to the pet which would compensate for us not getting accuracy from songs, rolls, and Geomancy, then you will be hearing a lot of 'Feedback' from me.

[Siviard]

Monstrosity is what bst should have been; minus the absurd hp. Having a master that deals great deal of damage alone leaves the door open for possible overpowering.

Imo, the master should have been weak (Not smn weak); while the pet should be monstrosity like (Instincts and all that other crap). Now excuse me while I go play the real beastmaster (Monstrosity)

Perhaps you've been playing Monstrosity a bit too much.....

[WoW]

Perhaps you've been playing Monstrosity a bit too much.....

Would you rather have a tp bar where you can ws at will (or back to back) or a restricted ready bar? Would you want your jugs to have most of their moves or moves mysteriously removed? Would want your monster to have some form of defense boosting/dd applications or naked?

Edit: Yea, I do play monstrosity often.....and your pets are still gimped (Do not see the point in that remark). This whole thread is about boosting the pets; manipulators are boosted monsters; see a correlation? Nothing wrong with taking certain elements from monstrosity and implementing them to bst.

[Olor]

I'm glad you guys finally decided to respond to us, that's all we wanted. I'm not going to spend to much time harping over the fact that just adding Food isn't going to solve anything, but instead I'll just wait patiently until the next version update. If pet food isn't up to everyone's expectations, which means a percentage based pet food that at least is +25% (200+) Accuracy and Ranged Accuracy to the pet which would compensate for us not getting accuracy from songs, rolls, and Geomancy, then you will be hearing a lot of 'Feedback' from me.

You'll definitely be giving feedback. We all know that the acc boost will not touch ranged acc and will be pathetic amount of normal acc (probably +50). W/E - my favourite job will just be broken for months and months more (probably forever)... lol

[Terrigenesis]

You pet jobs always complain about "oh we are always getting ignored" when pet jobs can solo content that non-pet jobs can't. Sounds like someone wants his cake and eat it too.

[Psion]

You pet jobs always complain about "oh we are always getting ignored" when pet jobs can solo content that non-pet jobs can't. Sounds like someone wants his cake and eat it too.

Like? WotG missions? abyssea? salvage II? normal mobs? Please enlighten me on what content pet jobs can solo now that other jobs can't, because quite frankly nothing i've done as pup recently i've felt i couldn't solo on another non-pet job. I even tried to solo the run af orobon. Here's how it went. "Oniwaka spams teir V nukes on the orobon with eminent animator, tranquilizer, ice maker, optic fiber, condenser, and all other nuking attachments, along with magic acc gear... and does 200ish damage each time."

Yeah, considering he took off 1% hp every several minutes, it wasn't working. I tried swapping to a melee frame. "whiffwhiffwhiffdead". I couldn't solo it as master either with whm pup healing me, because it charms. This is an orobon. it moves slow. by all means, my pup should have been able to kite nuke it to death, but because pet jobs are so ridiculously outdated against ilvl mobs, i couldn't even dent the damn thing with my automaton. smn honestly has it the best because at least their pets have potent nuke BPs to fall back on, and they scale better on ilvl mobs than bst or pup does.

Name me one kind of real content that matters where a pet job can solo their way through that other jobs cannot. I dare you.

Even if were still true, it wouldn't matter because we have to beg our friends to let us into endgame content, which is you know, kind of important to get the best gear to improve our job. If all our best gear was some special content designed around our jobs being able to solo, maybe we wouldn't care so much, but it's not, and i wouldn't expect SE to release pet job solo endgame content when its impractical.

The fact is, our pets have the stats of an empy gear +2 job with a level 99 relic weapon. that's great! ...if we were still in 2008. We're not, and any player showing up to delve in that kind of gear nowadays would be called gimp, and rightly so. When a melee bard can outparse my DD automaton, when a bloody whm can outparse my DD automaton just from tossing an occasional magic burst holy, we have issues. BIG issues. You'd be correct in us wanting our cake and eating it too. I don't make cakes just to give them out to random people, i want to taste my hard efforts too.

[Rwolf]

Actually, it does make sense; i lvled cooking and thus have easy access to jugs. I do not make the rules; i just know how to play by them. There is no flaw in that; I lvl cooking and have no issue obtaining jugs, it is not really flawed imo. For instance, if someone takes the time to lvl a craft that can assist them; I do not see how that is flawed. These are just my personal experiences, lol. I also stated that jugs should not be consumable so ppl like yourself can obtain them. I did not program the game, lol. I just play it.

You're counter arguing something completely different. You agreed with BigDave that Ranger is the most expensive job in the game because you make your jugs and profit off them, that is what I was saying is flawed. Flawed, because you can apply the same rationale to Ranger who not only can make their own ammo, but has several battle systems in place that recover ammo. Same for Ninja and Corsair. Indeed it is your personal experience that Beasmaster is inexpensive. In your personal experience jugs and healing items are easy to obtain. However, your posts come off entirely as there is nothing wrong with the system and raising cooking is an integral part of Beastmaster. You keep saying that jugs shouldn't even be consumable so there is no reason to continue going back and forth.


To your second point; your post appears to imply that not everyone lvls a craft or shares my dedication to bst; thus you cannot relate, because the job is expensive to you. Well....bst is not expensive or a hassle to me thus I cannot relate. I do not feel it needs alleviation, but i welcome it, because not everyone lvls cooking. It goes both ways, I do not feel your thinking is flawed, just because you did not lvl cooking; but that is just how it is atm, cooking helps. this is not 14 where crafts have no place in the game.

My main gripe is with the pet selection; they suck. I had a change of heart recently, if our jug selection continue to suck; it does not matter what they add to bst unless it overpowers them to extreme heights for the sake of hard content (Which may be a problem if they are sam or war like).

You're twisting my words about dedication. If you leveled a craft solely to ease the expense of Beastmaster, you do have dedication to the job. I'm speaking to your dedication (which is why you were quoted), not the whole Beastmaster community. Any job is less expensive if you raise crafts to support it. However, not everyone will and nor should it be a requirement to be affordable. Your argument is Beastmaster is affordable because you can craft the items. It's your personal point of view, not fact. Beastmaster (crafting and gil reserves aside) is the most expensive job to play.

I feel like we really are not discussing anything given that you agree. Your post seems like you're thinking out loud as it switches tones from agree to disagree. I didn't quote you to be condescending and start an argument with you. If you feel you need to quote me back to defend your post. Feel free, but I'm not going to continue derailing the topic.

[Damane]

You pet jobs always complain about "oh we are always getting ignored" when pet jobs can solo content that non-pet jobs can't. Sounds like someone wants his cake and eat it too.

nothing that is relevant in terms of gear or progression is soloable by pet jobs, everythign else that isnt relevant can be solod by any job. So your point is moot, because everyone is sitting in the same boat duh. There is nothing out there that only a pet job can solo,

[WoW]

You're counter arguing something completely different. You agreed with BigDave that Ranger is the most expensive job in the game because you make your jugs and profit off them, that is what I was saying is flawed. Flawed, because you can apply the same rationale to Ranger who not only can make their own ammo, but has several battle systems in place that recover ammo. Same for Ninja and Corsair. Indeed it is your personal experience that Beasmaster is inexpensive. In your personal experience jugs and healing items are easy to obtain. However, your posts come off entirely as there is nothing wrong with the system and raising cooking is an integral part of Beastmaster. You keep saying that jugs shouldn't even be consumable so there is no reason to continue going back and forth.



You're twisting my words about dedication. If you leveled a craft solely to ease the expense of Beastmaster, you do have dedication to the job. I'm speaking to your dedication (which is why you were quoted), not the whole Beastmaster community. Any job is less expensive if you raise crafts to support it. However, not everyone will and nor should it be a requirement to be affordable. Your argument is Beastmaster is affordable because you can craft the items. It's your personal point of view, not fact. Beastmaster (crafting and gil reserves aside) is the most expensive job to play.

I feel like we really are not discussing anything given that you agree. Your post seems like you're thinking out loud as it switches tones from agree to disagree. I didn't quote you to be condescending and start an argument with you. If you feel you need to quote me back to defend your post. Feel free, but I'm not going to continue derailing the topic.

you are arguing just to argue...lol, let me explain what I was saying; gonna make it short. My experiences are not flawed because I did not program the game; I just play by its' rules. These are just my experiences brah; why are they flawed? Is every crafter experiences flawed? You are not going to respond back because your comments pertaining to my flawed thinking were contradicting. I never stated that your experiences were flawed because you do not lvl crafting/believe bst is expensive, but you think mine were because I do not share the same sentiments? Hmmmmmm.....We can probably all agree that charm has flawed mechanics because it is a known fact that wild animals are not available in AA battles.

Bst is not expensive to me, whoopdeedoo.....it is expensive in your eyes....ok...fine..i even gave an alternative to make them less expensive but you felt the need to pick on the post.

I also stated that the majority were right; these buffs will not overpower the jugs unless they release an insane dd scorpion. A fully buffed scorpion, with sharp strike, and death scissors could do some major damage; perhaps that is what we need. I agree with you guys now as I stated before, you guys may be right; yes I did swicth my argument. I am a man, an extremely handsome man, but I digress; I can admit when I may have been wrong about something; and?

We both just did the bolded part btw^^

However; as it pertains to derailing; that is cool; I am wit it.

[WoW]

COR rolls can give pets buffs already, that's a possibility, we know it is, there's no reason at all that BRD & COR buffs as a whole can't simply apply to pets. It wouldn't overpower them, even if it did, simply lower the amount, players get 100 Atk? Well pets only get 75, penalty incurred and tada balance achieved.

To say...Only is true when you are talking about directly receiving such effects, but when it comes to getting them via the player it's entirely possible because that's what COR rolls already do, we know that. It's a poor excuse.

Good point, this is also something i took into consideration, thus changed my tune about this whole argument. I completely forgot about these, because they are rarely used. You guys are right; it will not overpower the current pets because some buffs are already in the game. Bst may need its own JAs to boost pets because you cannot justify a pet roll due to one bst being in the party compared a couple other dds.

I will add this; even if the gave pets atma, songs, rolls, and food it will not make a significant difference. Pets ready moves have awful modifiers; not to mention the pet selection is trash. I am excited to see what this new food does, but deep down, I know where the real problem lies; this is just a start imo.

[Psion]

Not to mention we need at least 200 acc for pets to even get above the accuracy floor in ::some:: endgame content to begin with. Even with hunters roll and dual madrigals (which you will never see DDs getting in a party unless it's something like very difficult ark angel mithra, where even high acc jobs like drg need a bunch of help), you still won't have pets reaching that amount. Even with a ranger in the party that would only get you halfway there at 100ish accuracy and a lucky roll, and a bard that has proper gear. A more realistic amount with those buffs would be around +90 accuracy tops, and that's not a gap that could be closed even with sole sushi value.

The sad part is, we need pet sushi to give around 200 accuracy at least, AND buffs to work on pets for them to be truly relevant. As stated, if it becomes too overpowered for certain jobs somehow, which i doubt, they could make it so the effect is lessened for whichever pets are suffering from godlike powers. Thing is though, buffs for melee are far stronger than buffs for magic, so it's unlikely to add much to an avatars nukes other than a bit of needed oomph and accuracy, but allowing us to buff and cure pets would make physical damage relevant again. Automatons would be able to build tp and ws, avatars would be able to use attacks like predator claws again, and bst pets would... well, hit things and fire off a fairly crappy move once in a while, but that's ok because they hit fairly hard the rest of the time anyways.

I know some of the harder stuff like delve 2 requires about 1100-1200 accuracy or more. I know this for a fact because even with around 1050 accuracy (dual madrigals, sushi, full acc gear, and hunters roll, along with box step from a dnc) my pup only parsed around 70% accuracy on most of the delve 2 bosses, sometimes dipping as low as 40% when things like box step wore. Considering pets only have 750-820 accuracy at best, and you can see they have a very very large gap to close to even see an actual increase in damage.

[Olor]

You pet jobs always complain about "oh we are always getting ignored" when pet jobs can solo content that non-pet jobs can't. Sounds like someone wants his cake and eat it too.

Yeah please let me know what content can only be soloed by pet jobs because as I already noted earlier - every solo content I do I do on a job that's not BST because other jobs are better, and my BST has better gear etc than any job of mine except maybe BLU

[Jinzha]

You pet jobs always complain about "oh we are always getting ignored" when pet jobs can solo content that non-pet jobs can't. Sounds like someone wants his cake and eat it too.

What a poor analogy. Who doesn't eat their own cake?

[Rwolf]

I agree the amount of accuracy would have to be massive just in order to pull pets off the accuracy floor on high level content. It makes more sense to naturally boost pet accuracy on all pets and have pet acc food be supplementary. I also agree that other aspects of pets need attention as well. Magic Accuracy, Defense, Attack, and Magic Attack Bonus. At the least pet accuracy and defense should be strong enough to hold it's own before adding supplemental gear. I find it backwards to correct pets so much with supplemental things like gear and food. This food would also have to automatically add its stats even if you're resummoning pets. If anyone has to carry around antacid, it will defeat the purpose.

[dasva]

ranger is by far the most expensive job to play not bst

It's not quite as bad since the recycle/scavenge update. Between the 2 of them you only end up losing about like 2-5% of the ammo you shooting depending on how much you put into them. Well that and how much double shot is used and what wss you use (pssss SE make recycle proc on all shots of double shot and ws)

[Camiie]

You pet jobs always complain about "oh we are always getting ignored" when pet jobs can solo content that non-pet jobs can't. Sounds like someone wants his cake and eat it too.

You're a BLU. You can solo content AND participate in endgame without people having a fit. Since you can do both, by your own reasoning, you should have to give one up. So which would you care to sacrifice? It's wrong that you can have your cake and eat it too when most of us have to choose one or the other.


What a poor analogy. Who doesn't eat their own cake?

But if you eat it you no longer possess it. You can't look at that beautifully decorated cake anymore. It's either a decoration, or it's food. It can't be both.

[Ravenmore]

You pet jobs always complain about "oh we are always getting ignored" when pet jobs can solo content that non-pet jobs can't. Sounds like someone wants his cake and eat it too.

Full of crap any old content bst can solo and DD /dnc can solo some times even faster then bst. So take that BS back to 05.

[WoW]

You pet jobs always complain about "oh we are always getting ignored" when pet jobs can solo content that non-pet jobs can't. Sounds like someone wants his cake and eat it too.

Well, bst are is not in horrible shape by any means, some threads do make it appear like bst is the worst job on earth. The master is pretty strong; they get a tremendous damage bonus on monsters based on the mob food chain thingy. They can also spread this bonus to pt members, however, you can not deny the fact that beast pets are pretty meh. I agree that pets needs to be overpowered, but to an extent. I just do not believe that food would do that, the pet selection is horrid. So, I agree and disagree with that comment. Some may want their cake and eat it too; it is liberation for them. They feel like bst has in the dumps for so long; half true (I can agree, to an extent though, cause pets are a part of bst dmg), the master is fine, the pets sucks. My gripe has and will always be the pet selection until a great dd pet is release. I try to be objective when it comes to bst; but that does not fly in the threads; lol. My only gripe is the pet selection. I mean, bst is not the only job sitting on the sidelines. Give us a better dd pet with acc food and bst may be fine; I mean, the master has one of the best ws in the game; combine that with a tp bar, sharp strike, and death scissors. I do agree with the masses pertaining to the pets, because that is what this thread is about, but you cannot discount the master whom is a pretty damn good dd.

But yes, the pets do suck.

Edit: As it pertains to bst being in the dumps, I have been a bst since 2004 and there was never a time (for me personally) were my bst was useless. Bst could always tread where no other job could, I recall soloing a few mission monsters by just charming an nearby IT, during the abyssea age, I soloed some bosses/tanked until the blm proc, even now, I soloed my rem chapters for my relic and af. Could other jobs do this, idk, (never tried, too may mobs in SCNMs) prolly, does not matter; all I am saying is that personally, my bst was always useful to me in one way or another (This is just how I feel, others my share varying sentiments).

[Mirage]

You're a BLU. You can solo content AND participate in endgame without people having a fit. Since you can do both, by your own reasoning, you should have to give one up. So which would you care to sacrifice? It's wrong that you can have your cake and eat it too when most of us have to choose one or the other.



But if you eat it you no longer possess it. You can't look at that beautifully decorated cake anymore. It's either a decoration, or it's food. It can't be both.

Well perhaps pet jobs simply shouldn't be just decorations, then.

[dasva]

The master is pretty strong; they get a tremendous damage bonus on monsters based on the mob food chain thingy. They can also spread this bonus to pt members, however,
The problem is no one will bring bst for it's DD capability since it still wont be up to 2hders. And to get that bonus you need merits and you can't full time it and on anything that checks ITG it is at 2/3s or lower potency and on several mobs (such as all nightmare mobs and some nms) it litterally does nothing. So you end up with a less desirable DD with a jug.

Bst will never be as good a DD by itself as others nor should it be but it should be able to be about as good when you factor the pet in too. Sadly the pets aren't even hitting content let alone staying alive. All the newer pets have meh pretty much dmg only tp moves. Some of the old jugs had rather nice unique debuffs that were nice... except since the soa came out most of those don't land on anything worth fighting assuming you could even get the tp for it and which is further compounded by the fact they cap way lower. If the Gooey Gerard, audicous anna, Crude Raphie, and Attentive Ibuki all could get to the highest level we can do and all their debuffs could land on even the highest nms at a reasonable rate I could probably convince people to bring bst to events.

[WoW]

The problem is no one will bring bst for it's DD capability since it still wont be up to 2hders. And to get that bonus you need merits and you can't full time it and on anything that checks ITG it is at 2/3s or lower potency and on several mobs (such as all nightmare mobs and some nms) it litterally does nothing. So you end up with a less desirable DD with a jug.

Bst will never be as good a DD by itself as others nor should it be but it should be able to be about as good when you factor the pet in too. Sadly the pets aren't even hitting content let alone staying alive. All the newer pets have meh pretty much dmg only tp moves. Some of the old jugs had rather nice unique debuffs that were nice... except since the soa came out most of those don't land on anything worth fighting assuming you could even get the tp for it and which is further compounded by the fact they cap way lower. If the Gooey Gerard, audicous anna, Crude Raphie, and Attentive Ibuki all could get to the highest level we can do and all their debuffs could land on even the highest nms at a reasonable rate I could probably convince people to bring bst to events.

You know whats funny; they are monsters out there that are fine damage dealers/tanks but SE refuses to give them to us. Until that do this, the tp moves will always be sub par. Even in abyssea, Ibuki has subpar ready move damage with atmas on weaker mobs (Unless you go full magic attack, but why?) So why would attack food change anything? Pet ws are not akin to players, sweeping gouge will still suck with 300 attack or a str increase.

They could easily fix the debuff issue by giving bst a JA/gear that enhances accuracy of these debuffs. Just like the +magic accuracy on player gear.

Imo, the pet selection must improve; I cannot stress this enough. Food may solve accuracy issues, but that is about it. Unless the food modifies the pets ws dmg, ppl will be back on the forums complaining within days. A pet slowly nipping at a bosses hp bar will not take bst over the top in terms of invites.

Again, I ask you guy/gals this, would anyone complain about prices if they released a wirve that could comfortably land demoralizing roar and had access to all its' native moves? Maybe, but they will get over, just like reforge armor prices; ppl complain about it, but end up buying them because the pros far outweigh the price in most instances.

Edit: Imo, we need another jug pet poll, but this time, an in-depth description of what each pet's moves will be. The past jug releases are just horrible. let us chose one; i mean, even though falcorr was not the popular choice, he is by far the best jug we ever had imo. I would like a detailed poll, I am not fond of this mystery pet business, aka what kind of pet pet will we get? the ones in the wild? One with its' moves removed? Or one with a couple unless tp moves?

[Damane]

You know whats funny; they are monsters out there that are fine damage dealers/tanks but SE refuses to give them to us. Until that do this, the tp moves will always be sub par. Even in abyssea, Ibuki has subpar ready move damage with atmas on weaker mobs (Unless you go full magic attack, but why?) So why would attack food change anything? Pet ws are not akin to players, sweeping gouge will still suck with 300 attack or a str increase.

They could easily fix the debuff issue by giving bst a JA/gear that enhances accuracy of these debuffs. Just like the +magic accuracy on player gear.

Imo, the pet selection must improve; I cannot stress this enough. Food may solve accuracy issues, but that is about it. Unless the food modifies the pets ws dmg, ppl will be back on the forums complaining within days. A pet slowly nipping at a bosses hp bar will not take bst over the top in terms of invites.

Again, I ask you guy/gals this, would anyone complain about prices if they released a wirve that could comfortably land demoralizing roar and had access to all its' native moves? Maybe, but they will get over, just like reforge armor prices; ppl complain about it, but end up buying them because the pros far outweigh the price in most instances.

Edit: Imo, we need another jug pet poll, but this time, an in-depth description of what each pet's moves will be. The past jug releases are just horrible. let us chose one; i mean, even though falcorr was not the popular choice, he is by far the best jug we ever had imo. I would like a detailed poll, I am not fond of this mystery pet business, aka what kind of pet pet will we get? the ones in the wild? One with its' moves removed? Or one with a couple unless tp moves?

the Pet selection ISNT the problem, its the fact that pets dont get any brd/cor/geo buffs/cant benefit from them, and that they cant be kept alive on anything remotely hard. new pets that just die in 2-3 sec and have shit accuracy wont bring all pet jobs anywhere. Buffs for pets and more -DT for pets would benefit all pet jobs.

[WoW]

the Pet selection ISNT the problem, its the fact that pets dont get any brd/cor/geo buffs/cant benefit from them, and that they cant be kept alive on anything remotely hard. new pets that just die in 2-3 sec and have shit accuracy wont bring all pet jobs anywhere. Buffs for pets and more -DT for pets would benefit all pet jobs.

As I stated before, I am not a pup, drg, or smn, so I cannot speak on them. However, the pet selection IS the problem which is why bst complain about their ready move dmg. Wivre gets a move that grants damage immunity from the front; so that will not help our pet's survivability? As someone mentioned before, pet buffs do exist, in the form of cor rolls. No one will invite a pet that slowly chips away at the bosses hp over another dd, they just will not. More -DT and buffs will help bst jugs survive, but ppl do not invite bst to tank........pet ws are not even strong with abyssea buffs on weaker monsters, what makes you think that a couple of attack songs will change that on content over 119? Survivability? Sure, but ppl invite you to dd not tank.

Our pet selection and debuff accuracy are the main issue imo. Dawns and pet food can help with survivability, if they add a little more -DT. Pets should not be walking plds, there are tools out there that can make pets invincible (Dawns) unless they are one-shotted by a super move. They should just add -DT on the axes since they took our ToM weapons from us, but I digress. If your pet can comfortably land debuffs, that will make bst more desirable (See geo). The pet selection is a problem for bst because a mandy will not out dd, a ram, scorpion, wivre, or a wamoura. they all have dd abilities that blow away a mandy. So, you will be happy with more mandies and another frog so long as they give it cor songs/brd songs? Will that make ppl invite you, because your pet can survive a little bit longer? Are your pets world beaters in abyssea with its super buffs (On weaker content)? There are a plethora of pet attack/haste out there for bst atm, but that does not help us become better dds, which is our job. Now, will a ram that can comfortably land rumble with berserk get you into a pt? Yes, Geos are invited because they can debuff. Buffs will be great, however, that will only give pets more attack or some other buff that pets have gotten in abyssea when their dmg was just merely decent. this may help other pet jobs, but I am strictly talking about bst. You have to keep in mind; will these buffs take bst over the top on content over 119? More accuracy will help the hit rate, but it would be death by a thousand pokes; MNK, can I have it? This will change nada imo. Ready moves do not have the same mechanics as the merit ws or victory smite. Players can get away with this, but jug pets cannot. However, death scissors always does high/consistent dmg.

Edit: Survivability is important, but even if the pets are able to stay out during an entire battle; it amounts to nada if they are doing sub par dmg (Sweeping gouge or head butt).

edit2: Not saying that SE should not allow pets to get hit by protect and shell, but if you guys think that this will get you into a dd party, think again. Why would they invite you over a mnk, because your pet has more survivability? A powerful move from a delve boss will still take down a jug pet and leave you spamming food; -DT will help, not resenting that, but as a dd, you cannot bypass these super moves. AAs don't give 2 $hits about your protect and survivability.

[Terrigenesis]

You're a BLU. You can solo content AND participate in endgame without people having a fit. Since you can do both, by your own reasoning, you should have to give one up. So which would you care to sacrifice? It's wrong that you can have your cake and eat it too when most of us have to choose one or the other.



But if you eat it you no longer possess it. You can't look at that beautifully decorated cake anymore. It's either a decoration, or it's food. It can't be both.

Endgame content? Actually no. BLUs are not welcome in ANY of the Adolin content. Almost anything a BLU can solo, a melee RDM can solo so get over yourself.

[Prothscar]

Re: Cost

90%~95% of your ammunition on RNG is being Recycled and Scavenged, on top of that you can synthesize multiple stacks of ammunition at once as well as buy stronger ammunition with plasm. Both of these cost opportunity cost, but it's to be noted that the amount of ammunition that you spend will be significantly lessened by Recycle and Scavenge, two things that BST does not benefit from.

On BST, you not only need jugs every 30~90 minutes, but you also need pet food to perpetuate them. Can you craft both of these just like you can craft ammunition? Yes. But you'd be lying through your teeth if you were to tell me that the time it takes to go farm apkallu eggs, ruzsor meat, and fish for the fish needed for some of these jugs wasn't opportunity cost; significantly more than what it would take to synthesize ammunition. Charming pets for... idk, Reives? Is great and all, but that doesn't help you with the other 90%+ of the game where there's nothing to charm.

Give either a jug recycle or pet food recycle trait and it'd be great. Don't need anything ridiculous like infinite jugs of infinity or something like that.

[WoW]

Re: Cost

90%~95% of your ammunition on RNG is being Recycled and Scavenged, on top of that you can synthesize multiple stacks of ammunition at once as well as buy stronger ammunition with plasm. Both of these cost opportunity cost, but it's to be noted that the amount of ammunition that you spend will be significantly lessened by Recycle and Scavenge, two things that BST does not benefit from.

On BST, you not only need jugs every 30~90 minutes, but you also need pet food to perpetuate them. Can you craft both of these just like you can craft ammunition? Yes. But you'd be lying through your teeth if you were to tell me that the time it takes to go farm apkallu eggs, ruzsor meat, and fish for the fish needed for some of these jugs wasn't opportunity cost; significantly more than what it would take to synthesize ammunition. Charming pets for... idk, Reives? Is great and all, but that doesn't help you with the other 90%+ of the game where there's nothing to charm.

Give either a jug recycle or pet food recycle trait and it'd be great. Don't need anything ridiculous like infinite jugs of infinity or something like that.

I see what you are saying, but I am not lying through my teeth, lol. I (Keyword) have no issue farming this especially with RoE. Puk eggs and the ruszor meat have a pretty decent drop rate. however, I acknowledge that some do not like to farm. I cannot relate to those ppl, but I am not going to tune them out.

I agree though, my infinity jug idea may have been a little excessive, lol, but ppl just do not like to spend money; so I said, heck, just make it free then. I do not want this game to end up like 14 where gil is unless and a dead ah. If you guys want a recycle, go for it; if they keep giving us recycled pets, it is only fitting.

[WoW]

Other DDs will receive the same buffs that pets do. They have waaaay better dmg and ws, so why invite a bst with a gimp pet slowly chipping away at the mobs hp? A dd which can land debuffs (Bst with a ram, etc) will be more appealing than a dd than can survive a little longer doing sub par dmg to content 119 and over. Songs and spells will help with accuracy, however, does that matter if your pet is doing crap dmg?

I will welcome these buffs (Who would not), but still, this will not affect bst invites, because they still bring nothing worthwhile to the table. A dd that can debuff with pets will bring something useful to the table imo. I mean, even if they allowed these buffs (Songs,etc), wouldn't a mnk still be preferred? I would trust a mnk over a bst with their crappy pet ws (With songs, because the mnk will receive the same songs, lol and have better weaponskills). Imo, Bst should be a dd that can debuff; i mean, most pets have debuffs and this alone will net bst more invites (if they could land comfortably).

[Jinzha]

Other DDs will receive the same buffs that pets do. They have waaaay better dmg and ws, so why invite a bst with a gimp pet slowly chipping away at the mobs hp? A dd which can land debuffs (Bst with a ram, etc) will be more appealing than a dd than can survive a little longer doing sub par dmg to content 119 and over. Songs and spells will help with accuracy, however, does that matter if your pet is doing crap dmg?

I will welcome these buffs (Who would not), but still, this will not affect bst invites, because they still bring nothing worthwhile to the table. A dd that can debuff with pets will bring something useful to the table imo. I mean, even if they allowed these buffs (Songs,etc), wouldn't a mnk still be preferred? I would trust a mnk over a bst with their crappy pet ws (With songs, because the mnk will receive the same songs, lol and have better weaponskills). Imo, Bst should be a dd that can debuff; i mean, most pets have debuffs and this alone will net bst more invites (if they could land comfortably).

We get the point already... You want better BST pets and ready moves. Now can you give it a rest please? No one here is arguing with you. The first logical step to getting BST invites will be to fix accuracy and survivability issues, and you've clearly stated that you do agree with that. The next step to give BST a 'purpose' within group content would be by giving them useful pets that can contribute a unique skill to help groups be successful like what you suggested: pets like Wivre that can debuff mobs. We all agree, but neither step can exist without the other. If you have a pet that can't hit and get tp, then he won't be able to debuff anything, but on the other hand if you have a pet that contributes nothing useful besides hitting a monster, why not just invite a monk? Our goals and your goals have a symbiotic relationship. One can't exist without the other. So please, can you talk about something new? Otherwise, there's no point droning on about the same point when we all understood it the first time.


Endgame content? Actually no. BLUs are not welcome in ANY of the Adolin content. Almost anything a BLU can solo, a melee RDM can solo so get over yourself.

Can you do us all the favor and just go away? If you're not going to contribute more than a couple of sentences to validate what already sounded like a half thought out remark muttered by temperamental teenager that's jealous because they're not getting all of the attention, then you're just wasting everyone's time. Thanks.

[WoW]

We get the point already... You want better BST pets and ready moves. Now can you give it a rest please? No one here is arguing with you. The first logical step to getting BST invites will be to fix accuracy and survivability issues, and you've clearly stated that you do agree with that. The next step to give BST a 'purpose' within group content would be by giving them useful pets that can contribute a unique skill to help groups be successful like what you suggested: pets like Wivre that can debuff mobs. We all agree, but neither step can exist without the other. If you have a pet that can't hit and get tp, then he won't be able to debuff anything, but on the other hand if you have a pet that contributes nothing useful besides hitting a monster, why not just invite a monk? Our goals and your goals have a symbiotic relationship. One can't exist without the other. So please, can you talk about something new? Otherwise, there's no point droning on about the same point when we all understood it the first time.



Can you do us all the favor and just go away? If you're not going to contribute more than a couple of sentences to validate what already sounded like a half thought out remark muttered by temperamental teenager that's jealous because they're not getting all of the attention, then you're just wasting everyone's time. Thanks.

I will give it a rest when you give the pet acc issue a rest. This thread is about buffing pets and i made several suggestions to do that. You keep repeating the same things in this thread, actually everyone does, why can't I? Also Damane did argue that better pets were not the issue. I agree that all these suggestions need to be addressed before our hopes to come full circle.

I will stop my babbling about pets when they shut this thread down (As will everyone else).

[WoW]

We get the point already... You want better BST pets and ready moves. Now can you give it a rest please? No one here is arguing with you. The first logical step to getting BST invites will be to fix accuracy and survivability issues, and you've clearly stated that you do agree with that. The next step to give BST a 'purpose' within group content would be by giving them useful pets that can contribute a unique skill to help groups be successful like what you suggested: pets like Wivre that can debuff mobs. We all agree, but neither step can exist without the other. If you have a pet that can't hit and get tp, then he won't be able to debuff anything, but on the other hand if you have a pet that contributes nothing useful besides hitting a monster, why not just invite a monk? Our goals and your goals have a symbiotic relationship. One can't exist without the other. So please, can you talk about something new? Otherwise, there's no point droning on about the same point when we all understood it the first time.



Can you do us all the favor and just go away? If you're not going to contribute more than a couple of sentences to validate what already sounded like a half thought out remark muttered by temperamental teenager that's jealous because they're not getting all of the attention, then you're just wasting everyone's time. Thanks.

Also, this is a public forum; I do not agree with some of the things Terri said, but he/she has a right to post on these forums, regardless if you agree with the remarks (As long as they are not against any rules).

Edit: You come off as if your opinion is the only one that matters and if someone states anything different; they need to get out of the forums or give it a rest. I have seen 15 plus pages of the same discussion, because this is a pet buffing thread.

Also, blu are on the sidelines as well, Terri is right.

[predatory]

This is a balancing factor; you have to take the bad with the good. That being said, no healer is going to feel an obligation to heal a pet that can be replaced easily; it will simply offer a tactical advantage to do so if the pet is truly needed. One simple fact here is nobody ever uses the pet buffs. Why buff the pets only when you can buff the master which in most cases is more advantageous? Short of pet buffs not using up a buff slot, this can't be fixed. these spells/abilities will always go unused because the support jobs will naturally choose buffing the many over buffing the few.

In short, I understand your concern, but making pet jobs more viable in parties is worth the slight trouble to support jobs. Worse comes to worse, you can just ignore the pets as per usual. You'd only be doing it if you were specifically trying to take advantage of pet classes in your party.

Again, let me emphasize that this is the standard in virtually all MMOs. You may not be used to it from FFXI, but it's how it works everywhere else pretty much, and it works just ifne.

simple fix would be to just have whatever buffs are applied to the master effect the pet as well, and give masters a way to debuff pet status ailments, pet spells if you like.

[Camiie]

Endgame content? Actually no. BLUs are not welcome in ANY of the Adolin content.

Absolutely wrong.


Almost anything a BLU can solo, a melee RDM can solo so get over yourself.

And things are no different for BST, so get over yourself.

[Puck]

Re: Cost

90%~95% of your ammunition on RNG is being Recycled and Scavenged, on top of that you can synthesize multiple stacks of ammunition at once as well as buy stronger ammunition with plasm. Both of these cost opportunity cost, but it's to be noted that the amount of ammunition that you spend will be significantly lessened by Recycle and Scavenge, two things that BST does not benefit from.

On BST, you not only need jugs every 30~90 minutes, but you also need pet food to perpetuate them. Can you craft both of these just like you can craft ammunition? Yes. But you'd be lying through your teeth if you were to tell me that the time it takes to go farm apkallu eggs, ruzsor meat, and fish for the fish needed for some of these jugs wasn't opportunity cost; significantly more than what it would take to synthesize ammunition. Charming pets for... idk, Reives? Is great and all, but that doesn't help you with the other 90%+ of the game where there's nothing to charm.

Give either a jug recycle or pet food recycle trait and it'd be great. Don't need anything ridiculous like infinite jugs of infinity or something like that.Well now that you put that thought in my head, I totally want an infinity jug of infinity. Like, for reals. It can be a weak crappy pet, like a frog that's our iLvl -10 at best, but just something we can call from an RaEx jug that doesn't expire so we can always have a pet no matter what the circumstances. That would be pretty useful and not game-breaking in any way.

[Ophannus]

I hope there is an Attack Food as well. These pet foods had also give sizeable bonuses to the masters. They said the pets would have a more significant bonus but I hope that doesn't mean the player bonus would be weaker than other food choices. For example, Bream Sushi gives +16% Accuracy to players. I would not want the new pet foods to give players say 5% Accuracy but 20% accuracy to pets because something like that would be of little use to DRGs and PUPs whereby both the master and pet need a high bonus to perform vs SMN where only the pet needs the bonus. Please make these affordable foods that give competitive bonuses to the masters while granting a strong bonus to pets, make them high level crafting recipes since 100+ cooking recipe foods are under utilized(most players eat Red Curry Buns or Sushi which are level 70-90 synths)

[WoW]

I hope there is an Attack Food as well. These pet foods had also give sizeable bonuses to the masters. They said the pets would have a more significant bonus but I hope that doesn't mean the player bonus would be weaker than other food choices. For example, Bream Sushi gives +16% Accuracy to players. I would not want the new pet foods to give players say 5% Accuracy but 20% accuracy to pets because something like that would be of little use to DRGs and PUPs whereby both the master and pet need a high bonus to perform vs SMN where only the pet needs the bonus. Please make these affordable foods that give competitive bonuses to the masters while granting a strong bonus to pets, make them high level crafting recipes since 100+ cooking recipe foods are under utilized(most players eat Red Curry Buns or Sushi which are level 70-90 synths)

I agree, but pet jobs do not like to pay for crap based on the replies in this thread (I agree with you though).......they don't like to pay for jugs....let alone pet food...lol. What is affordable to some, may be absurd to others. If this food is crafted, there will be threads asking for affordable food within days.

I believe smns have gear that directly impacts the avatars blood pact damage (Perhaps a smn can correct me on this, not a smn). Bst in particular could use some form of ready move damage increase gear (Pets should not do smn damage though). Not sure if this food will help with the ready move dmg. Perhaps they should also add magic attack food or something for smns and pups (Again, I am no smn, do you need magic attack food lol?). Critical hit food for pets will also be awesome. They all should add accuracy as a base stat imo, similar to how 14 does with their food (What does attack amount to with a poor hit-rate?); +25% acc, + 30% attack for the pet or something like that.

But yes, I agree with your entire post. Imo, this food needs to be quite unique in order for this to work.

[crptaculous]

I can understand SE not wanting pets to be directly targetable by player characters for buffs and cures, such that it would only promote solo play, and you’d see the days of yore of BST’s soloing everything (I know...I was one of them). Not from subjob, but rather, from at minimum one other player character (ie: dual/multi-boxing).

So, instead, if SE doesn’t want to risk that, I have one more suggestions in two different ways for pet jobs (smn, bst, pup, and yes geo and drg too). Not suggesting both, but one or the other:
a) Passive Status Enhancement Copy Trait that would always instantly copy the current status enhancements from the master to the pet (food included, so therefore SE wouldn’t have to make pet enhancement foods).
b) Active Status Enhancement Copy Ability, on a 5 minute recast, that copies whatever buffs are on the pet owner at the time of use, onto the pet.

Furthermore: if the developers are too worried about being over-powered, the copy doesn’t have to be a full on copy (it would be nice though). That being said: it should be no less than a 50% potency of the current status enhancements from owner to pet.

[Mitruya]

I can understand SE not wanting pets to be directly targetable by player characters for buffs and cures, such that it would only promote solo play, and you’d see the days of yore of BST’s soloing everything (I know...I was one of them). Not from subjob, but rather, from at minimum one other player character (ie: dual/multi-boxing).

So, instead, if SE doesn’t want to risk that, I have one more suggestions in two different ways for pet jobs (smn, bst, pup, and yes geo and drg too). Not suggesting both, but one or the other:
a) Passive Status Enhancement Copy Trait that would always instantly copy the current status enhancements from the master to the pet (food included, so therefore SE wouldn’t have to make pet enhancement foods).
b) Active Status Enhancement Copy Ability, on a 5 minute recast, that copies whatever buffs are on the pet owner at the time of use, onto the pet.

Furthermore: if the developers are too worried about being over-powered, the copy doesn’t have to be a full on copy (it would be nice though). That being said: it should be no less than a 50% potency of the current status enhancements from owner to pet.


DRG already has this to an extent with 4/5 or 5/5 merited Empathy (depending on if you stuck a merit in Deep Breathing after doing 5/5 Angon). Although only 4 or 5 of the buffs will transfer over, whereas in endgame you will probably have a ton of buffs on yourself as the master. Even with this and Steady Wing, it doesn't seem to improve the wyvern or increase its survivability much, so I agree with your suggestion that these buffs need to be stronger. And seriously, the 20 min recast on Call Wyvern needs to die in a fire. BST, PUP, and SMN can all call new pets out within a reasonable time. Of course the pet is not why DRGs get invited, though it would be great if the wyvern actually contributed more. Like, the underused Smiting Breath as an actual source of good damage.
Theoretically, the WHM/RDM automaton should be able to buff itself, so it would be nice if it cast Protectra/Shellra in addition to Phalanx and Stoneskin on itself. When I use the mage puppet I don't typically put an earth maneuver into the rotation for extra defense; I probably should but I don't know if it would really help much in Normal and up difficulty/Delve. Of course you would position a support puppet away from the mob, but we all know the AoEs are ridiculous.
Avatars each have their own special buff, but I agree that they could probably benefit from the basic player buffs. The advantage for them is that they can be summoned over and over, though I think it's their lack of real utility that keeps SMN from being invited?
And of course bringing a BST is just a money-pit of jugs and food, and they don't make any more of a dent on the mob than avatars do.
I believe that PUP with a support automaton offers more utility than people give it credit for; on the other hand it is not that strong of a DD and suffers from constant dps loss from spamming maneuvers.

[Ravenmore]

Really what in the world would bst be able too solo that they can't already now if you could target the pet with buffs. Timed content still would be out of reach for solo might make duo a bit easier but who rightly gives a crap. If you are worried about a few bst a 4 song brd and a whm doing VD AA fights so what they have been beaten already so who really should care that if you have bst you might be able to grind out some plans a little easier or get a weapon that will be outdated within the next few months. Wouldn't be any faster or safer then the go to strats we already have of pld, mnks and rngs.

[Mitruya]

The point is that people just want to be able to play their favorite jobs in any content. There shouldn't be endgame content designed for 6 jobs in a game with 22 jobs. You're right in that it's the time element that mostly keeps the weaker jobs out.
To me, the fantasy element is seeing a multitude of jobs take on the great beast. Imagine how boring your favorite anime or superhero team would be if everyone had the same powers. Should Loki had been defeated by five Hawkeyes and a WHM? That's silly.
With the population so low, I'm not sure why anyone would be against wanting people to be able to participate, even if it's on BST. God forbid people actually team up in an MMO and share the loot.

[predatory]

Another thing they could do is lengthen the timers on the fights so what people view as weaker jobs would have a chance to participate, right now only WKR and reives have no time limits on them, and with server populations as low as they are I can't imagine congestion being a real issue

[Damane]

I can understand SE not wanting pets to be directly targetable by player characters for buffs and cures, such that it would only promote solo play, and you’d see the days of yore of BST’s soloing everything (I know...I was one of them). Not from subjob, but rather, from at minimum one other player character (ie: dual/multi-boxing).

So, instead, if SE doesn’t want to risk that, I have one more suggestions in two different ways for pet jobs (smn, bst, pup, and yes geo and drg too). Not suggesting both, but one or the other:
a) Passive Status Enhancement Copy Trait that would always instantly copy the current status enhancements from the master to the pet (food included, so therefore SE wouldn’t have to make pet enhancement foods).
b) Active Status Enhancement Copy Ability, on a 5 minute recast, that copies whatever buffs are on the pet owner at the time of use, onto the pet.

Furthermore: if the developers are too worried about being over-powered, the copy doesn’t have to be a full on copy (it would be nice though). That being said: it should be no less than a 50% potency of the current status enhancements from owner to pet.

there is a simple fix to not make pet soloing to overpowered if you allow pets to get cured and recieve all buffs:

- make attacks/AoE that are DIRECTLY throwns To the pet deal normal damage like it does now and when attacks/AoE hit pets that were directed at a tank/otherplayer deal little to no dmg.
There fixed it. your pet wont die in AoE damage, but it also doesnt become OP to solo every content.

This is exactly how pet damage works in other MMOs and its an excellent solution, it provides pet jobs the necessery sustainability in group play via buffs/cures/little damage taken on their pets, while not overpowering solo play.

[Krystal]

Sure, lets obliterate another thing that makes FFXI unique from other MMOs. God, you guys never learn do you? It's players like you people that got abby introduced which nearly killed the game. If not for SE realizing this and releasing a new expansion that actually complemented abby's "easy mode" leveling with challenging end game content, FFXI would be deader than a doornail by now.

You guys mistake "ease of travel" and the other updates which have made things mildly easier for casual players for SE deciding to "easy mode" FFXI. Wake up and smell the coffee burning people! You want easy mode gaming? Go play FFXIV! You want a challenging gaming experience? Play FFXI!

[Camiie]

Sure, lets obliterate another thing that makes FFXI unique from other MMOs. God, you guys never learn do you? It's players like you people that got abby introduced which nearly killed the game. If not for SE realizing this and releasing a new expansion that actually complemented abby's "easy mode" leveling with challenging end game content, FFXI would be deader than a doornail by now.

You guys mistake "ease of travel" and the other updates which have made things mildly easier for casual players for SE deciding to "easy mode" FFXI. Wake up and smell the coffee burning people! You want easy mode gaming? Go play FFXIV! You want a challenging gaming experience? Play FFXI!

Did you post in the wrong thread, or do you really believe that allowing pet jobs to be useful in endgame will somehow ruin FFXI?

[Krystal]

Did you post in the wrong thread, or do you really believe that allowing pet jobs to be useful in endgame will somehow ruin FFXI?

No, I believe that pet jobs are fine the way they are. I solo as a pup all the time and I'm happy with that. If I want to party, I'll grab a non-pet job!

[Camiie]

No, I believe that pet jobs are fine the way they are. I solo as a pup all the time and I'm happy with that. If I want to party, I'll grab a non-pet job!

I'd really like for you to elaborate on your previous point. What harm would having pet jobs be equivalent to non-pet jobs do to the game? How, exactly, would FFXI become "easy mode" if that happened? Your satisfaction with the status quo doesn't have anything to do with your last post.

[Krystal]

I'd really like for you to elaborate on your previous point. What harm would having pet jobs be equivalent to non-pet jobs do to the game? How, exactly, would FFXI become "easy mode" if that happened? Your satisfaction with the status quo doesn't have anything to do with your last post.

Do you REALLY THINK SE would just out right give out a serious buff like that without an equally serious debuff? Pet jobs would surely lose their soloing ability but on the other end of the spectium, having a pet job in your party that you could buff said pet to be as powerful as lets say the pld or war would make battles delves and other types of battles "easy mode" due to parties essentially getting an extra party member dealing out as much dps as a nin or mnk. It would unbalance every battle they have out.

[WoW]

Sure, lets obliterate another thing that makes FFXI unique from other MMOs. God, you guys never learn do you? It's players like you people that got abby introduced which nearly killed the game. If not for SE realizing this and releasing a new expansion that actually complemented abby's "easy mode" leveling with challenging end game content, FFXI would be deader than a doornail by now.

You guys mistake "ease of travel" and the other updates which have made things mildly easier for casual players for SE deciding to "easy mode" FFXI. Wake up and smell the coffee burning people! You want easy mode gaming? Go play FFXIV! You want a challenging gaming experience? Play FFXI!

I can agree with this; to an extent, not wholly. For instance, there are a plethora of ways to make money in this game but ppl appear to have a issue dropping some gil on jugs. I will not mind if jugs were infinite (I even suggested it), however, I do not want XI to be akin to XIV; dead economy and ah, because there is no reason to buy anything. I did suggest infinite jugs, but i was simply tired of the flaming I got from stating that jugs were not expensive to me; So i was like, screw it, just make them questable. Pet jobs are not fine the way they are, but the economy is. I can agree with this "easy mode" to an extent. Gil is not that rare; I need something to blow it on.

[Jinzha]

It's players like you people that got abby introduced which nearly killed the game. If not for SE realizing this and releasing a new expansion that actually complemented abby's "easy mode" leveling with challenging end game content, FFXI would be deader than a doornail by now.
!

No no, my friend, it is players like you that make me eyeball my shotgun every day. If you're going to point fingers, you need to get your facts straight first. The FFXI forums weren't even in existence when Abyssea content was first released, so none of us are actually the ones who pointed Square Enix in the direction of what you call "easy mode". The shitter FFXI is in right now is entirely on them. Actually if Square Enix would take the time to listen to their players more often, the game might not be in the place it is today. Sadly players like you are the reason why we can't make FFXI better because every time we try to suggest something that is clearly a necessary implementation, Square Enix chickens out because they don't want to dissatisfy the one aberrant player who is overly conservative and decides that they want things to stay the way things are... That aberrant player being you.


Do you REALLY THINK SE would just out right give out a serious buff like that without an equally serious debuff? Pet jobs would surely lose their soloing ability but on the other end of the spectium, having a pet job in your party that you could buff said pet to be as powerful as lets say the pld or war would make battles delves and other types of battles "easy mode" due to parties essentially getting an extra party member dealing out as much dps as a nin or mnk. It would unbalance every battle they have out.

Can you elaborate some more? I don't get where people come off writing a mini paragraph and thinking that their opinion is credible. If you want to convince any of us here that allowing pets to be cured and buffed is overpowered and would make pets the equivalent of a player, then show us some evidence (Numbers, examples, etc.). But in my opinion, just simply jumping to the conclusion that something like this will make a pet the equivalent of a player is a bit unconvincing. Talking strickly to everyone else, and not you, if you're going to jump on Krystal's band-wagon, I think you're entitled to hear a little bit more than what sounds like a hasty generalization.

[WoW]

Do you REALLY THINK SE would just out right give out a serious buff like that without an equally serious debuff? Pet jobs would surely lose their soloing ability but on the other end of the spectium, having a pet job in your party that you could buff said pet to be as powerful as lets say the pld or war would make battles delves and other types of battles "easy mode" due to parties essentially getting an extra party member dealing out as much dps as a nin or mnk. It would unbalance every battle they have out.

This was my train of thinking aswell; however, as a bst, this will not make pets powerful in delve. I cannot speak for pups or smn, because I am not one.

(Not directed at you) And yes, i am going to talk about the jug selection again, if you do not like it, just please let me know^^ (SO I CAN CONTINUE POSTING IT) For instance; none of our current pets could even compare to a delve/REM dd; heck, a Ram or scorpion riding their attack bonus could not compare. Bst are restricted by a ready meter; this meter does not allow us to be overpowered. Even if the meter did not exist and we could ws back to back on a 300% tp bar similar to monstrosity, we would not be overpowered. Also, SE is notorious for removing moves from jugs; what you see in the wilds does not equate to our jug pets pertaining to their abilities (Jugs are stronger though, but their wild counterparts have all of their native abilities intact).

These players have ws modifiers and weapons far beyond even the strongest jug they could ever implement; unless they gave us a tojil jug, but all of his moves will be removed thus even he would not be overpowered. The right jugs and the absence of move removal would put bst on a level playing field, but not quite delve/REM war levels of power; not even close, unless they were partying on worms.

However, the master is a baaaaaaaad man/woman, ruinator is niiiiice, but no, we would not be overpowered.

Edit: Just my 2 cents, no harm, no foul, I actually thought the same thing, so I can relate to your opinion.

[Jinzha]

Also, this is a public forum; I do not agree with some of the things Terri said, but he/she has a right to post on these forums, regardless if you agree with the remarks (As long as they are not against any rules).


I never said that Terri didn't have the right to post in this forum, I simply asked for her to take her biased opinions elsewhere. He or she has the right to say no if he or she pleases.



Edit: You come off as if your opinion is the only one that matters and if someone states anything different; they need to get out of the forums or give it a rest. I have seen 15 plus pages of the same discussion, because this is a pet buffing thread.


My opinions are just opinions. Nothing more. Anyone who reads what I have to say can decide for themselves if they agree with them or not, but I'm not holding a knife to anyone's throat and saying that my opinions are absolute. I respect everyone's opinion here, and I'm willing to reconsider my own if the person is convincing enough, but if people have the right to make half thought remarks that are clearly bias and made out to irritate everyone rather than give constructive input, then I also have the right to give my opinion, although in may be a bit blunt. Here is a clear example of why I do what I do:


Sure, lets obliterate another thing that makes FFXI unique from other MMOs. God, you guys never learn do you? It's players like you people that got abby introduced which nearly killed the game. If not for SE realizing this and releasing a new expansion that actually complemented abby's "easy mode" leveling with challenging end game content, FFXI would be deader than a doornail by now.

You guys mistake "ease of travel" and the other updates which have made things mildly easier for casual players for SE deciding to "easy mode" FFXI. Wake up and smell the coffee burning people! You want easy mode gaming? Go play FFXIV! You want a challenging gaming experience? Play FFXI!

I mean come on. Krystal is clearly insulting everyone by saying that we're the reason why the game is the way it is. People like this start the cat fight first, so I should have the right to return fire by calling him or her a dumb-ass.


No, I believe that pet jobs are fine the way they are. I solo as a pup all the time and I'm happy with that. If I want to party, I'll grab a non-pet job!

Again. Seriously? Like really seriously? Cool opinion, but I'm pretty sure she's a minority in this argument. Anyone who is content with pet jobs the way they are are simply content because they don't play pet jobs as a main class. For us who actually take the pet job class seriously, it's easy to realize that pet jobs are not quote on quote "fine the way they are".

[Demonjustin]

Do you REALLY THINK SE would just out right give out a serious buff like that without an equally serious debuff? Pet jobs would surely lose their soloing ability but on the other end of the spectiumHow so? They would make Automatons impossible to cure? Force you to melee mobs while your pet fights? Explain how exactly you think they'd nerf these jobs if they let us have songs/rolls from the player transposed onto the pet.


having a pet job in your party that you could buff said pet to be as powerful as lets say the pld or war would make battles delves and other types of battles "easy mode" due to parties essentially getting an extra party member dealing out as much dps as a nin or mnk. It would unbalance every battle they have out.Who is asking for pets to be as strong as other DD jobs by themselves? The total power of a fully geared BST should be on par with the total power of a fully geared MNK, DRK, SAM, WAR, so on, not miles behind even when you combine the DMG of the master & pet. Even if pets + masters were = to DDs it would still be somewhat unbalanced because a master has to use JAs to keep the pet up as well as the fact that if their pet dies it can mean the difference between being a productive party member and being a worthless sack sitting in party.

[dasva]

Saying allowing pets to get pt buffs would make them as strong as every other DD is like implying that pets normally have dps anywhere near that of normal DDs without external buffs which is so far beyond true it's not even funny. Just in tp gear even my pld has more 30-40 more base stats (obviously more in some areas) and like a good 300-400 more acc/att than any ilvl 119 jug. Add on the fact that is with serious amounts of dt since it's a tanking set and more gear haste than your pet would have if you are meleeing next to it and actually have job abilities to use and not having to wait on timers for wsing and having ws that are way higher than what pets will pull off and being able to maccro stuff in for situations etc etc. And that doesn't even get into the fact that bst as nice as it is now is still basically a really gimp 1hd axe war without any of the jas

And the reason why SE wouldn't have to hand out a gimp for this is because the current status already is gimped. High level content has pretty much always been designed around not only having high base stats but decent amounts also from external buffs. But designing content like this AND not allowing pets to get buffs it's basically like sayings we only want pets to do easy stuff. The fact is pets have floor acc and horrible pdif currently against high level content. I mean like I said melees are going to have litterally hundreds of more acc/att than pets just because of gearing and in some higher level content and newly upgrade mobs in the gates even the best of melees will often need madigral and sushi. So yeah going from floor hit rate to what would probably still be 40-50% against harder targets isn't overpowered. Heck even if you fully transferred pt buffs to pets and gave them the few cor pet rolls they would still not be as good as a fully buffed DD

[WoW]

I never said that Terri didn't have the right to post in this forum, I simply asked for her to take her biased opinions elsewhere. He or she has the right to say no if he or she pleases.



My opinions are just opinions. Nothing more. Anyone who reads what I have to say can decide for themselves if they agree with them or not, but I'm not holding a knife to anyone's throat and saying that my opinions are absolute. I respect everyone's opinion here, and I'm willing to reconsider my own if the person is convincing enough, but if people have the right to make half thought remarks that are clearly bias and made out to irritate everyone rather than give constructive input, then I also have the right to give my opinion, although in may be a bit blunt. Here is a clear example of why I do what I do:



I mean come on. Krystal is clearly insulting everyone by saying that we're the reason why the game is the way it is. People like this start the cat fight first, so I should have the right to return fire by calling him or her a dumb-ass.



Again. Seriously? Like really seriously? Cool opinion, but I'm pretty sure she's a minority in this argument. Anyone who is content with pet jobs the way they are are simply content because they don't play pet jobs as a main class. For us who actually take the pet job class seriously, it's easy to realize that pet jobs are not quote on quote "fine the way they are".

If you want to flame, then flame on, lol. You two can argue til next week.

And actually, Terri was not even responding to you, it was directed at Cammiie, but you flamed Terri because she started the fight? How? was responding to someone else with her previous comment.

Also, you take these comments too personally; this is not a cat fight, but a bst suggestion thread.

[WoW]

Saying allowing pets to get pt buffs would make them as strong as every other DD is like implying that pets normally have dps anywhere near that of normal DDs without external buffs which is so far beyond true it's not even funny. Just in tp gear even my pld has more 30-40 more base stats (obviously more in some areas) and like a good 300-400 more acc/att than any ilvl 119 jug. Add on the fact that is with serious amounts of dt since it's a tanking set and more gear haste than your pet would have if you are meleeing next to it and actually have job abilities to use and not having to wait on timers for wsing and having ws that are way higher than what pets will pull off and being able to maccro stuff in for situations etc etc. And that doesn't even get into the fact that bst as nice as it is now is still basically a really gimp 1hd axe war without any of the jas

And the reason why SE wouldn't have to hand out a gimp for this is because the current status already is gimped. High level content has pretty much always been designed around not only having high base stats but decent amounts also from external buffs. But designing content like this AND not allowing pets to get buffs it's basically like sayings we only want pets to do easy stuff. The fact is pets have floor acc and horrible pdif currently against high level content. I mean like I said melees are going to have litterally hundreds of more acc/att than pets just because of gearing and in some higher level content and newly upgrade mobs in the gates even the best of melees will often need madigral and sushi. So yeah going from floor hit rate to what would probably still be 40-50% against harder targets isn't overpowered. Heck even if you fully transferred pt buffs to pets and gave them the few cor pet rolls they would still not be as good as a fully buffed DD

I agree with all of this.

imo, it will level the playing field, depending on the pet you use. A bst needs a strong jug, because they do not have any power boosting JAs besides killer instinct; thus a weak jug hinders our total damage output. This will only be overpowered if they gave us bloodrage, DA merits, berserk, warcry, restraint and a bigger axe if you get my drift. "Wink"

[Camiie]

Do you REALLY THINK SE would just out right give out a serious buff like that without an equally serious debuff? Pet jobs would surely lose their soloing ability but on the other end of the spectium, having a pet job in your party that you could buff said pet to be as powerful as lets say the pld or war would make battles delves and other types of battles "easy mode" due to parties essentially getting an extra party member dealing out as much dps as a nin or mnk. It would unbalance every battle they have out.

When pets can gear themselves, gear swap, use JAs like Focus/Aggressor/Berserk the same way players do, use actual weapon skill equivalents, gain a sub job, and adapt to situations then parties will have gained an extra party member.

As for a pet becoming the DPS equivalent of a NIN or MNK? I'd like to see you produce some numbers to back that up, because I see it as impossible. Other than the large HP pool of BST pets and some especially weak mandragora and cactuar pets that are essentially unusable, what pet out there even behaves like a NIN or a MNK? Do you even understand why MNKs are so powerful? And these days I don't even see NINs when I do endgame.

[Ravenmore]

All this bulllheadness against buffing bst is leftover crap from 75 days when bst could solo a few NMs that DDs couldn't but they were also always at risk of some tool stealing the mob at low HP after the bst whittled it down and was swapping to a new pet or a group of them could kill a NM that would take 18 dregs or a decent party of 6(well 5 decent 75s and the one guy that needed a Ohat). Also I wouldn't call doing it WRONG being unique it's just doing it wrong and other MMOs clearly understand balance far better then SE could ever.

[Psion]

Not to mention in high buff situations, even IF they applied to pets, there's a major thing holding back pet jobs from becoming overpowered. even if pets had capped haste and acc along with those other buffs.

that's job ability delay.

it gets even worse in high buff situations because each JA you perform is a couple seconds lost in dps. for jobs like pup, especially, where you're issuing at least 3 maneuvers a minute, on top of the occasional repair, role reversal, or ventriloquy, and maybe an occasional deploy or retrieve, it adds up to a massive amount of dps loss. dps loss that has to be made up somehow. in the 75 cap days this was made up by the puppet actually having good accuracy and damage, with maneuvers enhancing this. the loss of the masters damage was made up for somewhat by the increase in the pets damage. even so, in high buff situations a pup couldn't hold a candle to other melee simply because the automaton couldn't receive those buffs. sure they did good, but it was common to be 2-7% DPS below the other, more "ideal" DPS in that case, assuming both were geared to the teeth.

considering bst has to use JAs to make their pets use tp moves, plus reward and any other JAs they need to use, they suffer the same issue. smns are a bit better off since their avatars magic moves can still pack a punch, even if a weakened on on the hardest content, and they have support abilities as well. they still suffer from the same JA delay, however, and lack of pet buffs, and are such viewed more as support jobs instead of hybrid support/DD. ability for the masters pets to apply to pets as well would go a long way to helping their job being seen in a more favorable light, and maybe make their physical BPs relevant again.

[Mitruya]

I agree with Raven.
It's pure bullheadedness to not want more people to be able to participate in content on any job and to not want more job balance. (and this includes RDMs, NINs, BLUs, THFs, DNCs, RUNs as well, I'm sure plenty of them are sitting around bored wanting to play but can't)
No one is asking for nerfs. (well, maybe we'd like to see MNK taken down a notch, but still ...) No one is asking for easy-mode. We are asking to be able to play the game we pay a subscription for. Do you really enjoy spending 3 hours shouting to fill a party? How many people have complained that they want to be able to log on and play, and don't have time to wait for that stun SCH or whatever? What if more jobs could contribute to a win?
Either the princess jobs are afraid of being de-throned (and I don't know why that would matter), or some fool thinks this is suddenly going to ruin their Dynamis farming. I can't think of the last time I've seen more than one person in Dynamis, but I guess Valefor server during NA daytime/EU primetime is not a good example.
Those that say "start your own party" are full of sh*t. If I dared start a party as PUP, the first thing people are going to say is "do you have any other jobs?" Insert any other non-popular job in that sentence and it will be the same scenario.
All we're asking for is a chance to contribute to party/alliance content, i.e. endgame.
I can't believe there are pet players that actually enjoy that being a solo-only thing. But hey, if you have other party-appropriate jobs you enjoy then more power to you.
Why would SE give us things like Divinator and Seriphcaller etc. just to go solo reives or Dynamis? We don't need overpowered stuff for that. Yet even the highest-level pet items fail in endgame content.
Hell, if some vocal minority is so deadset against buffs, then maybe SE should just extend the time limit of battlefields a little bit, so that weaker jobs can be included and still whittle away at the enemy in time for a clear. But really, giving our pets a little more acc and def/survivability is not going to suddenly makes us overpowered.

[WoW]

I agree with Raven.
It's pure bullheadedness to not want more people to be able to participate in content on any job and to not want more job balance. (and this includes RDMs, NINs, BLUs, THFs, DNCs, RUNs as well, I'm sure plenty of them are sitting around bored wanting to play but can't)
No one is asking for nerfs. (well, maybe we'd like to see MNK taken down a notch, but still ...) No one is asking for easy-mode. We are asking to be able to play the game we pay a subscription for. Do you really enjoy spending 3 hours shouting to fill a party? How many people have complained that they want to be able to log on and play, and don't have time to wait for that stun SCH or whatever? What if more jobs could contribute to a win?
Either the princess jobs are afraid of being de-throned (and I don't know why that would matter), or some fool thinks this is suddenly going to ruin their Dynamis farming. I can't think of the last time I've seen more than one person in Dynamis, but I guess Valefor server during NA daytime/EU primetime is not a good example.
Those that say "start your own party" are full of sh*t. If I dared start a party as PUP, the first thing people are going to say is "do you have any other jobs?" Insert any other non-popular job in that sentence and it will be the same scenario.
All we're asking for is a chance to contribute to party/alliance content, i.e. endgame.
I can't believe there are pet players that actually enjoy that being a solo-only thing. But hey, if you have other party-appropriate jobs you enjoy then more power to you.
Why would SE give us things like Divinator and Seriphcaller etc. just to go solo reives or Dynamis? We don't need overpowered stuff for that. Yet even the highest-level pet items fail in endgame content.
Hell, if some vocal minority is so deadset against buffs, then maybe SE should just extend the time limit of battlefields a little bit, so that weaker jobs can be included and still whittle away at the enemy in time for a clear. But really, giving our pets a little more acc and def/survivability is not going to suddenly makes us overpowered.

Will not get us invites neither.

[Mitruya]

Will not get us invites neither.

Yeah I agree, I just don't see what all the fuss is about for giving us any sort of leg up.

[WoW]

Yeah I agree, I just don't see what all the fuss is about for giving us any sort of leg up.

I agree; I can understand their point of view, because I felt the same way until I really stepped back and examined bst pets in particular; I just don't see how that will make them overpower or even receive invites.

Other jobs fear bst imo, remember the whole dynamis whining? "Boo, hoo, bst can solo multiple mobs in dyna (Who cares, its dyna, lol); it is so unfair."

[Glamdring]

Other jobs fear bst imo, remember the whole dynamis whining? "Boo, hoo, bst can solo multiple mobs in dyna (Who cares, its dyna, lol); it is so unfair."

hell, my BRD can solo multiple mobs in dynamis, and has been able to do so since the 95 level cap. however, it took longer than I want to take. and of course I'm a better bst than brd. all that said, I go thf/dnc, the proc rate is so low as it is that even bst has no point.

[dasva]

Another thing that would still hold pets back even in high buff situations is no outside cures/nas. Timers to remove the debuffs/cure pet can leave your pet in a bad state for a long time and even fixing them will hurt master dps. And if the pet dies sure they can (eventually) just bring out a new one but it will be one without buffs

[WoW]

hell, my BRD can solo multiple mobs in dynamis, and has been able to do so since the 95 level cap. however, it took longer than I want to take. and of course I'm a better bst than brd. all that said, I go thf/dnc, the proc rate is so low as it is that even bst has no point.

Which made it more puzzling to me.

[WoW]

Another thing that would still hold pets back even in high buff situations is no outside cures/nas. Timers to remove the debuffs/cure pet can leave your pet in a bad state for a long time and even fixing them will hurt master dps. And if the pet dies sure they can (eventually) just bring out a new one but it will be one without buffs

Good point; did not consider that.

[Psion]

it would be better if the buffs on the master applied to the pet as well, as opposed to directly buffing the pet. would also be less resource intensive since there wouldn't be pets getting hit with buff animations on top of players.

in fact, ffxiv does this with equipment, where the masters stats carry over to the pet as well. (it's not pet: damage +2 or int +3 for instance, but rather your gear stats are 1 to 1 on the pet as well.) considering pet rolls work this way anyways, it probably would be simple to simply add the same amount of pet relevant boost to a buff. so when you get hit with haste, it's not only haste +15%, but pet: haste +15% as well.

and yes, unless you can status cure/cure pets as well, they are always going to suffer in endgame simply because of crippling status effects and the very slow recast on removing them. pup gets repair and maintenance, both on multiminute timers, bst gets reward, smn has to dismiss or use a summon with a status cure BP. a tough boss however will spam the unholy hell out of whatever nasty moves they have, and it's almost always paralyze. (except when it's amnesia. or petrify. or weakness.) so not only do you have to deal with that, you often risk having your repair/reward eaten up by paralyze or being unable to status heal your pet at all.

[Demonjustin]

Will not get us invites neither.I care to disagree to a point. While it won't fix all issues it will make the job a lot more bearable to play. Right now when I get on my BST in any high level content(119+) and my pet can't even hit let alone kill things, if it could actually hit a mob then I could worry about damage but if they increased my attack I would have a super strong 'can't hit the broadside of a barn' mob. It won't fix everything, but Accuracy in high level content is a very large issue we have all the same. So far as survivability it's also key to not only our pet's DMG but our own, less DMG taken by our pet means less spamming of Reward or Call Beast on our part which allows for a higher DPS due to the lack of constant JA delay.

[WoW]

I care to disagree to a point. While it won't fix all issues it will make the job a lot more bearable to play. Right now when I get on my BST in any high level content(119+) and my pet can't even hit let alone kill things, if it could actually hit a mob then I could worry about damage but if they increased my attack I would have a super strong 'can't hit the broadside of a barn' mob. It won't fix everything, but Accuracy in high level content is a very large issue we have all the same. So far as survivability it's also key to not only our pet's DMG but our own, less DMG taken by our pet means less spamming of Reward or Call Beast on our part which allows for a higher DPS due to the lack of constant JA delay.

It may make the job more bearable to play, however, our jugs do not hit very hard on high lvl content; actually the master's dmg puts the jug to shame. The only way a jug can rip hate from me is through a ruinator > snarl. Also, take a look at our jug pet's ready moves; none of them are particularly damaging. More acc will make bst a little more bearable in our eyes, but other jobs may see the jugs for what they are; weak with decent accuracy. However, if the pet attack buff was substantial; say....idk....the pet is putting out crits and melee dmg similar to ours then we may be on to something. Now; as many on the bst forums have alluded to, our pet's ready moves are rather weak. My fully buffed the boar with attack and str atmas and sweeping gouge was not very impressive, on weaker mobs in abyssea.

I am not going to disagree with your sentiments Justin, because you may be on to something, but it all depends on the efficacy of the food buff and our jug selection. For instance, the boar has pretty nice DoT; however, his ws are rather weak. You know how some ws still stuck at lvl 119, lol? Like...you can hit a too weak with it and the mob does not die? This buff can be great, with the right pet; Food > berserk > ram charge, just saying, lol. I mean; other dds need to bring their A game to these battles, aka REM, so, our pet's need to do the same. Enough of the pansy jugs (mandies, frogs), move removal, and subpar att/acc.

But no, not gonna disagree; need to see this buff in action first. I still doubt we can convince ppl to invite us because the jug can hit like they should to begin with.

[Ravenmore]

I don't even really want to see mnk nerfed just the rest of the jobs brought up to mnks level with a Formless strikes JA for every DD and either every job get a boost to HP or stop making mobs with AoE moves that will kill every non mnk job. Sure some will say were would be the challenge but where is it now when the answer is throw mnks and rngs at mobs.

[Mitruya]

I don't even really want to see mnk nerfed just the rest of the jobs brought up to mnks level with a Formless strikes JA for every DD and either every job get a boost to HP or stop making mobs with AoE moves that will kill every non mnk job. Sure some will say were would be the challenge but where is it now when the answer is throw mnks and rngs at mobs.

Exactly. This is poor game design, knowing that anything not a MNK RNG PLD won't stand a chance.

Recent posts have made some good suggestions that could help balance things in a simple way:
- extended time limits on battlefields, not a huge amount but enough that more jobs can be included
- extending master buffs to the pet so no need for outside buffs
- better performance and survivability to cut down on JA usage/loss of dps
- do something about the ridiculous AoE spam that few jobs can withstand, much less pets

Telling someone to level another job doesn't cut it, because all the favored jobs require top-notch gear that takes time to obtain. People are already blowing through endgame content, and anyone that didn't already have the popular 6 jobs ready are left in the dust.

[Demonjustin]

Telling someone to level another job doesn't cut it, because all the favored jobs require top-notch gear that takes time to obtain.Not only that but it's an insanely stupid cop out. There's 22 jobs in the game, sure, but only these 5(PLD WHM BRD RNG MNK) have the ability to do the hardest content in the game, some of the other 17 can do hard, but not as hard of content, and then there are a few jobs that just solo above averagely and that's about the extent of their use. You don't play one of the 5? Oh, well rather than trying to make them any more balanced or anything like that just go level a job that does fit what you're looking for, that's good enough.

[WoW]

Not only that but it's an insanely stupid cop out. There's 22 jobs in the game, sure, but only these 5(PLD WHM BRD RNG MNK) have the ability to do the hardest content in the game, some of the other 17 can do hard, but not as hard of content, and then there are a few jobs that just solo above averagely and that's about the extent of their use. You don't play one of the 5? Oh, well rather than trying to make them any more balanced or anything like that just go level a job that does fit what you're looking for, that's good enough.

This can be fixed; make every dd capable of putting out top notch damage; allow every tank to be the best at what they do; pld physical, rune elemental, and ninja evasion. 14 does a pretty decent job at this, it did not appear to be a wrong job when I played; but this was last year, lol.

[Damane]

This can be fixed; make every dd capable of putting out top notch damage; allow every tank to be the best at what they do; pld physical, rune elemental, and ninja evasion. 14 does a pretty decent job at this, it did not appear to be a wrong job when I played; but this was last year, lol.

the damage output isnt the problem for the DD variety its their survivability compared to monk... Granted monk is piss easy to play to get decent damage out of it.

[WoW]

the damage output isnt the problem for the DD variety its their survivability compared to monk... Granted monk is piss easy to play to get decent damage out of it.

I ask you this; will ppl invite your dd if they put out subpar damage, but could survive akin to a mnk? Nope, just grab a mnk. Now; there are dds whom does not have counter, large hp pool and self-healing, but get invites, because of their damage. Not refuting the fact that bst pets may die too quickly, but damage is the issue other wise we would parse higher and will would not be asking for attack buffs/food to begin with.

Edit: Some one you guys are looking for a fight; arguing just to argue. Survivability is an issue, but so is damage; a dds primary job. Sure you cannot dd if you are dead, but that is what mages are for. Also, the master rarely dies, the pet does. This is annoying and should be fixed.

[Demonjustin]

This can be fixed; make every dd capable of putting out top notch damage; allow every tank to be the best at what they do; pld physical, rune elemental, and ninja evasion. 14 does a pretty decent job at this, it did not appear to be a wrong job when I played; but this was last year, lol.You make it sound so easy though. Going with that line of thought for a moment you can easily fix WAR, THF, DRK, SAM, and DRG in DMG, putting them all on equal grounds, but you're not addressing HP, Defense, or anything like that. Yes, the DDs can do good DMG, but now you're faced with the DDs dying constantly, cue the RNGs in our content.

You also provide a simple solution to tanks, make them each good at what they're designed for. Again... this seems vastly oversimplified. PLD can't hold hate off of most DDs, by this I mean non-RNG, THF, and DRG DDs. THF & RNG are a bit special because they can control hate to a point, Decoy Shot & Trick Attack do work wonders at this and Jumps being able to make the hate go away is similar as well. The problem is when you add in other DDs like WAR or SAM, they've no place in this paradigm because they're simply going to pull hate off that PLD. What about RUN & NIN? Well SE systematically designed the game in a way that those jobs just can't perform. RUN can take all the magic you want to throw at it, which is great, up until the mob actually uses a TP move and wipes that grin off your face that you so eagerly adorned after watching a 0 DMG nuke go off only seconds earlier. NIN also got screwed in a similar way, the fact that not only AoE spells are, well, AoE, but now single target spells are sometimes AoE and the fact that normal attacks themselves are capable of wiping 2~3 shadows a hit simply makes NIN's attempts to tank futile now. NINs can hardly get their shadows up before another attack only serves to wipe them once more, even the best of NINs couldn't tank content if they tried at this point because the game is just built to prevent shadow tanking, the only exception to this being the old fights like Ark Angels and Tenzen which were created before this line of BS came up to the plate.

Even with all of that covered though, even if it did work, you're still looking at BLM, RDM, BST, SMN, BLU, PUP, DNC, and GEO, all looking for a spot in parties too. These jobs either don't fit into the DD/Tank paradigm or are a mix of the two, for instance what's a BLU? Is a BLU a DD which gets powered up to match or be close to WARs? Well now it's support powers might make it too powerful. The same question to RDM. What about PUP? It's a DD, but it has an Automaton which can be either DD or support based and it has the same kinda issue as BLU in that respect.

I don't mean to make it sound like I'm saying you're wrong, but I'm trying to say it's not so simple and easy to do. The fact the game has 22 jobs makes it hard to balance, and sadly I just don't think such simple changes would cut it at this point.

[WoW]

You make it sound so easy though. Going with that line of thought for a moment you can easily fix WAR, THF, DRK, SAM, and DRG in DMG, putting them all on equal grounds, but you're not addressing HP, Defense, or anything like that. Yes, the DDs can do good DMG, but now you're faced with the DDs dying constantly, cue the RNGs in our content.

You also provide a simple solution to tanks, make them each good at what they're designed for. Again... this seems vastly oversimplified. PLD can't hold hate off of most DDs, by this I mean non-RNG, THF, and DRG DDs. THF & RNG are a bit special because they can control hate to a point, Decoy Shot & Trick Attack do work wonders at this and Jumps being able to make the hate go away is similar as well. The problem is when you add in other DDs like WAR or SAM, they've no place in this paradigm because they're simply going to pull hate off that PLD. What about RUN & NIN? Well SE systematically designed the game in a way that those jobs just can't perform. RUN can take all the magic you want to throw at it, which is great, up until the mob actually uses a TP move and wipes that grin off your face that you so eagerly adorned after watching a 0 DMG nuke go off only seconds earlier. NIN also got screwed in a similar way, the fact that not only AoE spells are, well, AoE, but now single target spells are sometimes AoE and the fact that normal attacks themselves are capable of wiping 2~3 shadows a hit simply makes NIN's attempts to tank futile now. NINs can hardly get their shadows up before another attack only serves to wipe them once more, even the best of NINs couldn't tank content if they tried at this point because the game is just built to prevent shadow tanking, the only exception to this being the old fights like Ark Angels and Tenzen which were created before this line of BS came up to the plate.

Even with all of that covered though, even if it did work, you're still looking at BLM, RDM, BST, SMN, BLU, PUP, DNC, and GEO, all looking for a spot in parties too. These jobs either don't fit into the DD/Tank paradigm or are a mix of the two, for instance what's a BLU? Is a BLU a DD which gets powered up to match or be close to WARs? Well now it's support powers might make it too powerful. The same question to RDM. What about PUP? It's a DD, but it has an Automaton which can be either DD or support based and it has the same kinda issue as BLU in that respect.

I don't mean to make it sound like I'm saying you're wrong, but I'm trying to say it's not so simple and easy to do. The fact the game has 22 jobs makes it hard to balance, and sadly I just don't think such simple changes would cut it at this point.

I referenced 14; the two tank jobs can tank, all the dps can dps. for instance, my free company would say, "Any dd needs ampapor keep?" XIV simplified the job system, it can be done. However, the way XI's job systems is currently constructed, they may need to make certain tanks shine on various hard level content, because that is how they designed the game; cannot get past that. They can make each job specialize at a specific fight, but not every fight. For instance, NIN shines on a very hard boss, while pld shines on another, ditto for run. Spread these battles across relevant content to enforce equal job playability. As it pertains to dd, allow them to possess equal dd capabilities; akin to 14. They may have to tools to scale and balance this. For instance, give bst a pet with berserk to make up for the lack of offensive JAs.

Edit: The job play mechanics enforce specialization; for instance, not every tank job can be invited to take on a particular boss; that has been the case since XI was born. Now; if they got rid of these specializations and allowed nin and rune to mitigate physical damage akin to a pld; ochain plds would cry foul, now we opened up another can of worms especially if the damage reduction does not require the run or nin to possess a Relic or emp. DDs are quite simple to balance compared to tanks. A dds primary job is to deal damage (And survive while doing it for the nitpickers, lol); ok, simple enough, allow each job access to a massive damage boost akin to the top tier dd jobs. Tanks are a bit tricky, because their specializations are rather unique compared to dds. Nins are evasion masters, plds are physical damage reduction, while run are supposedly magic damage reduction. DDs..well...they dd; it does not matter how they do it, so long as they put out a massive amount of damage. Now, giving a run the blocking capabilities of a pld could open up a new problem/complaining.....allowing bst to put out similar damage to a war would not matter much; because a war will still get the job done; only difference is, a bst can as well; hence invite either or.

Back on topic to pet jobs, bst in particular; just make the jug pets close the gap between us and other top dds; that is all. I mean, if they have to add better pets, boost ready moves again, give pets JAs, or what ever they choose to do.

[Lithera]

Though even in XIV depending on what you are doing you won't be taking a melee dd or a smn due to how they do their damage vs blms n brds. Course that is partly due to XIV's melee having positioning inorder to cap their DD.

[WoW]

You make it sound so easy though. Going with that line of thought for a moment you can easily fix WAR, THF, DRK, SAM, and DRG in DMG, putting them all on equal grounds, but you're not addressing HP, Defense, or anything like that. Yes, the DDs can do good DMG, but now you're faced with the DDs dying constantly, cue the RNGs in our content.

You also provide a simple solution to tanks, make them each good at what they're designed for. Again... this seems vastly oversimplified. PLD can't hold hate off of most DDs, by this I mean non-RNG, THF, and DRG DDs. THF & RNG are a bit special because they can control hate to a point, Decoy Shot & Trick Attack do work wonders at this and Jumps being able to make the hate go away is similar as well. The problem is when you add in other DDs like WAR or SAM, they've no place in this paradigm because they're simply going to pull hate off that PLD. What about RUN & NIN? Well SE systematically designed the game in a way that those jobs just can't perform. RUN can take all the magic you want to throw at it, which is great, up until the mob actually uses a TP move and wipes that grin off your face that you so eagerly adorned after watching a 0 DMG nuke go off only seconds earlier. NIN also got screwed in a similar way, the fact that not only AoE spells are, well, AoE, but now single target spells are sometimes AoE and the fact that normal attacks themselves are capable of wiping 2~3 shadows a hit simply makes NIN's attempts to tank futile now. NINs can hardly get their shadows up before another attack only serves to wipe them once more, even the best of NINs couldn't tank content if they tried at this point because the game is just built to prevent shadow tanking, the only exception to this being the old fights like Ark Angels and Tenzen which were created before this line of BS came up to the plate.

Even with all of that covered though, even if it did work, you're still looking at BLM, RDM, BST, SMN, BLU, PUP, DNC, and GEO, all looking for a spot in parties too. These jobs either don't fit into the DD/Tank paradigm or are a mix of the two, for instance what's a BLU? Is a BLU a DD which gets powered up to match or be close to WARs? Well now it's support powers might make it too powerful. The same question to RDM. What about PUP? It's a DD, but it has an Automaton which can be either DD or support based and it has the same kinda issue as BLU in that respect.

I don't mean to make it sound like I'm saying you're wrong, but I'm trying to say it's not so simple and easy to do. The fact the game has 22 jobs makes it hard to balance, and sadly I just don't think such simple changes would cut it at this point.

Also, you guys are kind of nitpicking with the post, lol. We all know rng type jobs have s safer distance compared to other jobs; even when there were not the number one choice. However, i ask you, what should they do about rng distance advantage? I am fine with it personally; i see other jobs get into delve parties etc; i was strictly talking about dd capabilities. If it is as bad as this, idk what to tell non-rangers, lol. From what ive seen, just heal them, unless they get one-shotted by something. I have seen dds handle endgame crap fine.

[Krystal]

Again. Seriously? Like really seriously? Cool opinion, but I'm pretty sure she's a minority in this argument. Anyone who is content with pet jobs the way they are are simply content because they don't play pet jobs as a main class. For us who actually take the pet job class seriously, it's easy to realize that pet jobs are not quote on quote "fine the way they are".

Again with the minority argument. I swear that's the ultimate fallback in an effort to discredit ones opinion or stated facts. But you know what, I'm not wasting my key strokes. Go ahead SE, listen to these whiners and complainers it's not like you'll create a WoW clone in hopes of appeasing them.

*looks at FFXIV ARR*

Too Late.

[Glamdring]

Exactly. This is poor game design, knowing that anything not a MNK RNG PLD won't stand a chance.

...

Telling someone to level another job doesn't cut it, because all the favored jobs require top-notch gear that takes time to obtain. People are already blowing through endgame content, and anyone that didn't already have the popular 6 jobs ready are left in the dust.

and never forget, those jobs are just the flavor of the month until SE's next battle system roll-out. in case you don't remember it wasn't that long ago that the only way someone's Pld for example was getting a party invite was out of pity and even then only if you were sleeping with the player real life-and he still better have an Aegis AND an Ochain already. I'm actually surprised that some of the mages that don't start SCH are getting some occasional party love-unless you needed to hit a proc they've mostly been ignored since pre-ToAU meri-pos.

@Wow, as to other DDs, yes, they can function, but the term you are looking for is "MP sponge". other DD types can wipe your healers out in a big hurry, both of MP and life if they have to cure bomb. that's the survivability argument. and gear isn't the answer. SE could make the sweetest DEF+ gear you ever saw for all those jobs and all the players will completely ignore it, they only care about the DPS parser. and fixing the job's damage won't fix the problem, they'll still take the DPS+ gear over the DEF+ because they can get DPS even higher. Honestly, outside soloing rare is the player that thinks about survival in their build at all, especially with the reduced XP loss and the quick regain these days.

[WoW]

Again with the minority argument. I swear that's the ultimate fallback in an effort to discredit ones opinion or stated facts. But you know what, I'm not wasting my key strokes. Go ahead SE, listen to these whiners and complainers it's not like you'll create a WoW clone in hopes of appeasing them.

*looks at FFXIV ARR*

Too Late.

Have to agree, otherwise ppl can say that about anything.

[Mitruya]

Again with the minority argument. I swear that's the ultimate fallback in an effort to discredit ones opinion or stated facts. But you know what, I'm not wasting my key strokes. Go ahead SE, listen to these whiners and complainers it's not like you'll create a WoW clone in hopes of appeasing them.

*looks at FFXIV ARR*

Too Late.

I have never played WoW or FFXIV. This is my first and only MMO so I don't have anything to compare this to. Therefore, I don't understand your anger with us in what has been 20 odd pages of mostly positive support. I don't understand what is so wrong about having more than 5 or 6 jobs be viable.
I don't mind challenge. I just want to PLAY THE GAME I PAY FOR, and not feel like I wasted 30 bucks on the SoA expansion because of job exclusivity and Valefor being a f***g dead server.
More eloquent posters than myself have pointed out the unlikelyhood of becoming overpowered due to job mechanics/limitations. I believe someone also pointed out there is no challenge in throwing MNKs and RNGs at everything anyway.
Explain the logic of SE giving pet jobs level 117-119 items, with no content to really use them in that sparks gear or Wildskeeper gear wouldn't perform just as well. (not counting Upukirex, since DRG does get invited as a DD from time to time)

[Jinzha]

Again with the minority argument. I swear that's the ultimate fallback in an effort to discredit ones opinion or stated facts. But you know what, I'm not wasting my key strokes. Go ahead SE, listen to these whiners and complainers it's not like you'll create a WoW clone in hopes of appeasing them.

*looks at FFXIV ARR*

Too Late.

Actually I find it a bit funny that you would say that the ultimate fallback in an effort to discredit one's opinion or stated fact is by calling it the minority's opinion. Pet jobs have been the minority class in Final Fantasy XI since their existence, and every time the pet job community attempts to voice their opinion, we're always shut down by the game developers because they fear upsetting the majority by disrupting the job class hierarchy. People have been using the outdated dogma of believing that any vast change in FFXI's mmo mechanics will lead to FFXI becoming the equivalent of WoW. I think that mantra is a bit overused and what you would call a "effort to discredit one's opinion" because anytime anyone wants to make the game better, someone yells 'World of Warcraft' and suddenly that opinion is discredited. All you have given us is accusations that the implementation of our suggestions will lead to the downfall of the game, and your only evidence is an analogy to WoW. The reason why your opinion was discredited was not because it was a minority opinion in this thread, but simply because you have given no one any substantial evidence of how our suggestions could even lead FFXI on the road to WoW. When people like you pop up in this thread and simply say things like "No, I believe pet jobs should stay the way they are," you're not contributing anything to this thread other than wasting 30 seconds of someone's life. The point of this thread isn't to pick a side: [Pet buffs and cures] vs. [no pet buffs and cures] or [To fix] vs. [not to fix]. The point is to come up with a solution through compromise. Everybody who actually plays a pet job class as their main class agrees that there is a problem with pet jobs in group content. We're not here to debate whether or not pet classes need to be fixed but rather trying to find a reasonable and balanced solution because it has already been established that pet jobs need some sort of revisions. So if you have nothing more to contribute to this thread other then "Pet jobs are fine the way they are," then you're wasting your time and our time.

[Damane]

Again with the minority argument. I swear that's the ultimate fallback in an effort to discredit ones opinion or stated facts. But you know what, I'm not wasting my key strokes. Go ahead SE, listen to these whiners and complainers it's not like you'll create a WoW clone in hopes of appeasing them.

*looks at FFXIV ARR*

Too Late.

As if FFXI hasnt move allready a large amount into WoW directions with the ilvl system and various other stuff ¬.¬ (which isnt per say bad)

[WoW]

I never said that Terri didn't have the right to post in this forum, I simply asked for her to take her biased opinions elsewhere. He or she has the right to say no if he or she pleases.



My opinions are just opinions. Nothing more. Anyone who reads what I have to say can decide for themselves if they agree with them or not, but I'm not holding a knife to anyone's throat and saying that my opinions are absolute. I respect everyone's opinion here, and I'm willing to reconsider my own if the person is convincing enough, but if people have the right to make half thought remarks that are clearly bias and made out to irritate everyone rather than give constructive input, then I also have the right to give my opinion, although in may be a bit blunt. Here is a clear example of why I do what I do:



I mean come on. Krystal is clearly insulting everyone by saying that we're the reason why the game is the way it is. People like this start the cat fight first, so I should have the right to return fire by calling him or her a dumb-ass.



Again. Seriously? Like really seriously? Cool opinion, but I'm pretty sure she's a minority in this argument. Anyone who is content with pet jobs the way they are are simply content because they don't play pet jobs as a main class. For us who actually take the pet job class seriously, it's easy to realize that pet jobs are not quote on quote "fine the way they are".


Actually I find it a bit funny that you would say that the ultimate fallback in an effort to discredit one's opinion or stated fact is by calling it the minority's opinion. Pet jobs have been the minority class in Final Fantasy XI since their existence, and every time the pet job community attempts to voice their opinion, we're always shut down by the game developers because they fear upsetting the majority by disrupting the job class hierarchy. People have been using the outdated dogma of believing that any vast change in FFXI's mmo mechanics will lead to FFXI becoming the equivalent of WoW. I think that mantra is a bit overused and what you would call a "effort to discredit one's opinion" because anytime anyone wants to make the game better, someone yells 'World of Warcraft' and suddenly that opinion is discredited. All you have given us is accusations that the implementation of our suggestions will lead to the downfall of the game, and your only evidence is an analogy to WoW. The reason why your opinion was discredited was not because it was a minority opinion in this thread, but simply because you have given no one any substantial evidence of how our suggestions could even lead FFXI on the road to WoW. When people like you pop up in this thread and simply say things like "No, I believe pet jobs should stay the way they are," you're not contributing anything to this thread other than wasting 30 seconds of someone's life. The point of this thread isn't to pick a side: [Pet buffs and cures] vs. [no pet buffs and cures] or [To fix] vs. [not to fix]. The point is to come up with a solution through compromise. Everybody who actually plays a pet job class as their main class agrees that there is a problem with pet jobs in group content. We're not here to debate whether or not pet classes need to be fixed but rather trying to find a reasonable and balanced solution because it has already been established that pet jobs need some sort of revisions. So if you have nothing more to contribute to this thread other then "Pet jobs are fine the way they are," then you're wasting your time and our time.

That is the point; you stated that bst are the minority; hence their opinions do not matter. I believe Krystal was referring to shutting down/brushing off individual's opinions by stating that they are the minority. For instance; i do not agree that buffing pets with attack and acc would overpower them; however, cures would = no pet food. I did not tune out Krystal's argument because ppl feel she is the minority.

The minority argument is sort of a cop-out; I believe you stated that bst were the minority. I will hear out anyone whom opinions differ from my own; I was even convinced that these buffs will not overpower pets based on the comments posted in this thread.

[Lithera]

Yet, she has yet to state why pet jobs are fine as they are and thus don't need a big hand up just to be more productive in a party or alliance situation except that it will be the one thing that will kill the game. Along with the game becoming more WoW like. Except that both of the DD that regularly get asked to parties and alliance stuff are going to have massive butthurt because omg someone might think about bringing a pet job for something more than angon or to use AF on something.

[Damane]

Yet, she has yet to state why pet jobs are fine as they are and thus don't need a big hand up just to be more productive in a party or alliance situation except that it will be the one thing that will kill the game. Along with the game becoming more WoW like. Except that both of the DD that regularly get asked to parties and alliance stuff are going to have massive butthurt because omg someone might think about bringing a pet job for something more than angon or to use AF on something.

zomg blasphemy people actually haveing to put effort into MNK to compete with other DDs!!! Mindblowing!!!! (/sarcasmoff)

Thats how it should be, you have to earn your place in a pt, not get it for granted just because your Job has 3923029 better abilitys/ws etc then others.

[Demonjustin]

I referenced 14; the two tank jobs can tank, all the dps can dps. for instance, my free company would say, "Any dd needs ampapor keep?" XIV simplified the job system, it can be done. However, the way XI's job systems is currently constructed, they may need to make certain tanks shine on various hard level content, because that is how they designed the game; cannot get past that. They can make each job specialize at a specific fight, but not every fight. For instance, NIN shines on a very hard boss, while pld shines on another, ditto for run. Spread these battles across relevant content to enforce equal job playability. As it pertains to dd, allow them to possess equal dd capabilities; akin to 14. They may have to tools to scale and balance this. For instance, give bst a pet with berserk to make up for the lack of offensive JAs.Excluding RUN, PLD & NIN kinda have this setup right now, where PLD can tank Delve bosses and NIN can tank AAs, the thing is there's nothing in this game PLD can't tank right now and NIN can that I'm aware of. Creating that balance would be fine, but you'd have to make it a mob that is completely outside of what we see from SE today and so strong that 1 hit would be either so deadly it nearly kills you, or it flat out 1 shots you, because anything less and a PLD will be able to tank it all the same. The AoE spell spam would have to completely stop, the AoE normal moves would have to be done away with, the TP moves that ignore or rip through shadows effortlessly would need to be stopped or at least massively slowed down. It's hard to come up with something not insanely stupidly overpowered that PLD can't tank, but NIN can, simply because PLD is a godly tank of their own undoing that has everything besides hate tools at it's disposal, and that brings me to the next reply...


Edit: The job play mechanics enforce specialization; for instance, not every tank job can be invited to take on a particular boss; that has been the case since XI was born. Now; if they got rid of these specializations and allowed nin and rune to mitigate physical damage akin to a pld; ochain plds would cry foul, now we opened up another can of worms especially if the damage reduction does not require the run or nin to possess a Relic or emp.PLDs would have no right to complain, I admit if it were to easy to complain maybe there's a leg to stand on, but right now RUN has no use really because you're looking at a job that is unable to prevent physical damage enough to survive between spells. If you compare that to the fact PLDs have easy access to Aegis, the shield which made RUN sound like a joke of an idea and to a good extent still does, giving RUN the ability to mitigate 50% of their damage taken from physical attacks seems like a non-issue to me, I mean they're still getting hit fairly hard, they just don't royally suck anymore.


DDs are quite simple to balance compared to tanks. A dds primary job is to deal damage (And survive while doing it for the nitpickers, lol); ok, simple enough, allow each job access to a massive damage boost akin to the top tier dd jobs. Tanks are a bit tricky, because their specializations are rather unique compared to dds. Nins are evasion masters, plds are physical damage reduction, while run are supposedly magic damage reduction. DDs..well...they dd; it does not matter how they do it, so long as they put out a massive amount of damage. Now, giving a run the blocking capabilities of a pld could open up a new problem/complaining.....allowing bst to put out similar damage to a war would not matter much; because a war will still get the job done; only difference is, a bst can as well; hence invite either or.This I agree with.


Back on topic to pet jobs, bst in particular; just make the jug pets close the gap between us and other top dds; that is all. I mean, if they have to add better pets, boost ready moves again, give pets JAs, or what ever they choose to do.I think another issue that needs to be looked at for all pet jobs, or all jobs in general, is still the large issue of JA delay. Fix BST pets, Automatons, and so on however you wish but when the master is standing there a full 2 seconds doing nothing because he had to throw a treat to his pet, call a new one, or tell it to stop being stupid and use it's TP, it's starting to slow the master's DMG down too and that's a bother as well. One of the main things keeping PUP down last I knew was the JA delay, all those Maneuvers being spammed constantly, same with DNC & it's steps, getting rid of that delay in the middle of every action would go a long way in helping the jobs that not only need use their JAs for themselves but keep an eye and use abilities for their pets who need so much attention. Basically, in my opinion we should add JA delay to that list as well.


Also, you guys are kind of nitpicking with the post, lol. We all know rng type jobs have s safer distance compared to other jobs; even when there were not the number one choice. However, i ask you, what should they do about rng distance advantage? I am fine with it personally; i see other jobs get into delve parties etc; i was strictly talking about dd capabilities. If it is as bad as this, idk what to tell non-rangers, lol. From what ive seen, just heal them, unless they get one-shotted by something. I have seen dds handle endgame crap fine.I don't mean to be nitpicking it, but really if you do any of the new Delves from what I've seen melees are getting destroyed, the same thing goes with the Merit Point fights, melees get absolutely crushed by their DMG. The only way melees really can take on AAs right now is through shadows and that's not a perfect solution for many reasons and the most important of which is that some TP moves either wipe all shadows or completely ignore them. If anything I would say make it easier to survive as a front line job, increase HP, increase DEF, decrease DMG, something, I mean right now the reason I see RNG as prefered over other jobs isn't because it's a better DD in all of these different instances necessarily but it's because that's the 1 job that doesn't have to be up close to do it's job and can now days get around it's hate issue fairly easily.

Unless melees can start to survive on the front lines though it won't matter how much damage they're popping out, and I'll be honest, for now there's not a whole lot that can be done, doing AAs on Very Hard with melees easily results in a number of 1 shots from WSs, especially MR who spams Cloudsplitter which ignores shadows outright. I've yet to do Tenzen on VD but I know his SC ignores shadows and he can spam it over, and over, and over again, which means it's either Scherzo or death.

[Mitruya]

I think another issue that needs to be looked at for all pet jobs, or all jobs in general, is still the large issue of JA delay. Fix BST pets, Automatons, and so on however you wish but when the master is standing there a full 2 seconds doing nothing because he had to throw a treat to his pet, call a new one, or tell it to stop being stupid and use it's TP, it's starting to slow the master's DMG down too and that's a bother as well. One of the main things keeping PUP down last I knew was the JA delay, all those Maneuvers being spammed constantly, same with DNC & it's steps, getting rid of that delay in the middle of every action would go a long way in helping the jobs that not only need use their JAs for themselves but keep an eye and use abilities for their pets who need so much attention. Basically, in my opinion we should add JA delay to that list as well.


Or perhaps a simple fix would be to extend the duration of said JAs - maneuvers, steps, Angon, etc. then we don't have to constantly spam the JA during dps time. I was disappointed that so far the reforge sets don't offer duration boosts, maybe reforged Empyrean could have that? Or with the new job points system? (there better be more ways to get JPs on unwanted jobs though ...)
I think I did include the issue of JA delay in my list in an earlier post but no harm reiterating that point.

I agree also that anything not a PLD or a job that can attack from a distance is shit out of luck right now. In cases like that, I wish my Sharpshot buddy could also be one of those slots! :p But really, aren't pets meant to throw at things while the master stands back? It's a shame NONE of them are useful for the new content.

[Jinzha]

That is the point; you stated that bst are the minority; hence their opinions do not matter. I believe Krystal was referring to shutting down/brushing off individual's opinions by stating that they are the minority. For instance; i do not agree that buffing pets with attack and acc would overpower them; however, cures would = no pet food. I did not tune out Krystal's argument because ppl feel she is the minority.

The minority argument is sort of a cop-out; I believe you stated that bst were the minority. I will hear out anyone whom opinions differ from my own; I was even convinced that these buffs will not overpower pets based on the comments posted in this thread.

This is definitely a classic example of someone's words being twisted. If you haven't been paying attention, I have been advocating all pet classes getting boosts in all of my arguments. Honestly, I was not even using my reference of Krystal as a minority opinion as a reason for discrediting her opinion. What discredited her opinion was the fact that she gave no substantial evidence as to how our suggestion of allowing pets to be buffed and cured would lead to the games demise.


Again. Seriously? Like really seriously? Cool opinion, but I'm pretty sure she's a minority in this argument. Anyone who is content with pet jobs the way they are are simply content because they don't play pet jobs as a main class. For us who actually take the pet job class seriously, it's easy to realize that pet jobs are not quote on quote "fine the way they are".


I was only pointing out the fact that she's one of the few crazy people who are fine with how pet jobs are today, and that she most likely believes that because she doesn't play a pet job as her main class. On the other hand, the closest thing I had said to Beastmaster being a minority was that pet jobs are a minority as a whole in comparison to popular classes like Monk, Bard, Corsair, etc. which makes it difficult for pet jobs to get anything implemented in their favor.


Actually I find it a bit funny that you would say that the ultimate fallback in an effort to discredit one's opinion or stated fact is by calling it the minority's opinion. Pet jobs have been the minority class in Final Fantasy XI since their existence, and every time the pet job community attempts to voice their opinion, we're always shut down by the game developers because they fear upsetting the majority by disrupting the job class hierarchy.

I think you used some sort of transitive property after only reading the bolded part of my comment towards Krystal. You thought that if I used Krystal being a minority to void her opinion then I was basically doing the same to Beastmaster's opinions because they are also considered a minority. However when I said pet jobs have been considered the minority class, it was to point out that people have been using the minority argument to discredit pet jobs receiving any substantial revisions. It was also meant to point out the fact that Krystal is ironically siding with the majority that have been dismantling pet jobs' opinions using the argument that pet classes are only a minority of FFXI players.


Have to agree, otherwise ppl can say that about anything.

Your argument towards me is clearly foul play because no where had I stated, verbatim, that "Beastmasters are a minority" and that I agree that this also made their opinions invalid. I called Krystal the minority opinion because she is among the few people who actually believe that pet jobs are "Fine just the way they are" and it had nothing to do with Beastmaster. It's actually a little sad that you guys picked out the least monumental thing I had said in my argument against Krystal as a way to ironically discredit my opinion. I'm also surprised that you're siding with someone who is saying that they want to see Beastmaster stay the same, but you're entitled to your own opinions. Next time actually read my argument because what you just said I said was obviously not what I said.

[WoW]

I never said that Terri didn't have the right to post in this forum, I simply asked for her to take her biased opinions elsewhere. He or she has the right to say no if he or she pleases.



My opinions are just opinions. Nothing more. Anyone who reads what I have to say can decide for themselves if they agree with them or not, but I'm not holding a knife to anyone's throat and saying that my opinions are absolute. I respect everyone's opinion here, and I'm willing to reconsider my own if the person is convincing enough, but if people have the right to make half thought remarks that are clearly bias and made out to irritate everyone rather than give constructive input, then I also have the right to give my opinion, although in may be a bit blunt. Here is a clear example of why I do what I do:



I mean come on. Krystal is clearly insulting everyone by saying that we're the reason why the game is the way it is. People like this start the cat fight first, so I should have the right to return fire by calling him or her a dumb-ass.



Again. Seriously? Like really seriously? Cool opinion, but I'm pretty sure she's a minority in this argument. Anyone who is content with pet jobs the way they are are simply content because they don't play pet jobs as a main class. For us who actually take the pet job class seriously, it's easy to realize that pet jobs are not quote on quote "fine the way they are".


This is definitely a classic example of someone's words being twisted. If you haven't been paying attention, I have been advocating all pet classes getting boosts in all of my arguments. Honestly, I was not even using my reference of Krystal as a minority opinion as a reason for discrediting her opinion. What discredited her opinion was the fact that she gave no substantial evidence as to how our suggestion of allowing pets to be buffed and cured would lead to the games demise.




I was only pointing out the fact that she's one of the few crazy people who are fine with how pet jobs are today, and that she most likely believes that because she doesn't play a pet job as her main class. On the other hand, the closest thing I had said to Beastmaster being a minority was that pet jobs are a minority as a whole in comparison to popular classes like Monk, Bard, Corsair, etc. which makes it difficult for pet jobs to get anything implemented in their favor.



I think you used some sort of transitive property after only reading the bolded part of my comment towards Krystal. You thought that if I used Krystal being a minority to void her opinion then I was basically doing the same to Beastmaster's opinions because they are also considered a minority. However when I said pet jobs have been considered the minority class, it was to point out that people have been using the minority argument to discredit pet jobs receiving any substantial revisions. It was also meant to point out the fact that Krystal is ironically siding with the majority that have been dismantling pet jobs' opinions using the argument that pet classes are only a minority of FFXI players.



Your argument towards me is clearly foul play because no where had I stated, verbatim, that "Beastmasters are a minority" and that I agree that this also made their opinions invalid. I called Krystal the minority opinion because she is among the few people who actually believe that pet jobs are "Fine just the way they are" and it had nothing to do with Beastmaster. It's actually a little sad that you guys picked out the least monumental thing I had said in my argument against Krystal as a way to ironically discredit my opinion. I'm also surprised that you're siding with someone who is saying that they want to see Beastmaster stay the same, but you're entitled to your own opinions. Next time actually read my argument because what you just said I said was obviously not what I said.

This is what you are saying now, lol, however, your original post stated, "Cool opinion" akin to me telling someone "Cool story bro". If this was not your intentions, then why bring up the fact that she is the minority? Or use sarcasm pertaining to her comments (Cool opinion, you clearly disagreed with her opinion). You could have just articulated your sentiments like the second paragraph. You have to admit, the cool opinion,was a bit sarcastic; it was also followed by you stating that she is in the minority. I am not twisting your words; you are just back tracking your comments; i mean, this is not personal, no harm, no foul; I even changed my stance upon hearing the comments in this thread, I can admit to something I did.

[WoW]

I never said that Terri didn't have the right to post in this forum, I simply asked for her to take her biased opinions elsewhere. He or she has the right to say no if he or she pleases.



My opinions are just opinions. Nothing more. Anyone who reads what I have to say can decide for themselves if they agree with them or not, but I'm not holding a knife to anyone's throat and saying that my opinions are absolute. I respect everyone's opinion here, and I'm willing to reconsider my own if the person is convincing enough, but if people have the right to make half thought remarks that are clearly bias and made out to irritate everyone rather than give constructive input, then I also have the right to give my opinion, although in may be a bit blunt. Here is a clear example of why I do what I do:



I mean come on. Krystal is clearly insulting everyone by saying that we're the reason why the game is the way it is. People like this start the cat fight first, so I should have the right to return fire by calling him or her a dumb-ass.



Again. Seriously? Like really seriously? Cool opinion, but I'm pretty sure she's a minority in this argument. Anyone who is content with pet jobs the way they are are simply content because they don't play pet jobs as a main class. For us who actually take the pet job class seriously, it's easy to realize that pet jobs are not quote on quote "fine the way they are".


This is definitely a classic example of someone's words being twisted. If you haven't been paying attention, I have been advocating all pet classes getting boosts in all of my arguments. Honestly, I was not even using my reference of Krystal as a minority opinion as a reason for discrediting her opinion. What discredited her opinion was the fact that she gave no substantial evidence as to how our suggestion of allowing pets to be buffed and cured would lead to the games demise.




I was only pointing out the fact that she's one of the few crazy people who are fine with how pet jobs are today, and that she most likely believes that because she doesn't play a pet job as her main class. On the other hand, the closest thing I had said to Beastmaster being a minority was that pet jobs are a minority as a whole in comparison to popular classes like Monk, Bard, Corsair, etc. which makes it difficult for pet jobs to get anything implemented in their favor.



I think you used some sort of transitive property after only reading the bolded part of my comment towards Krystal. You thought that if I used Krystal being a minority to void her opinion then I was basically doing the same to Beastmaster's opinions because they are also considered a minority. However when I said pet jobs have been considered the minority class, it was to point out that people have been using the minority argument to discredit pet jobs receiving any substantial revisions. It was also meant to point out the fact that Krystal is ironically siding with the majority that have been dismantling pet jobs' opinions using the argument that pet classes are only a minority of FFXI players.



Your argument towards me is clearly foul play because no where had I stated, verbatim, that "Beastmasters are a minority" and that I agree that this also made their opinions invalid. I called Krystal the minority opinion because she is among the few people who actually believe that pet jobs are "Fine just the way they are" and it had nothing to do with Beastmaster. It's actually a little sad that you guys picked out the least monumental thing I had said in my argument against Krystal as a way to ironically discredit my opinion. I'm also surprised that you're siding with someone who is saying that they want to see Beastmaster stay the same, but you're entitled to your own opinions. Next time actually read my argument because what you just said I said was obviously not what I said.

I am an objective individual (This does not fly in the pets threads though, lol); for instance, allowing pets to be cured would deem pet food useless; I can agree with her sentiments, to an extent. What is wrong with displaying tolerance, understanding, and reason? I am not going to throw out objectivity because I am a 99 bst, lol.

[Demonjustin]

allowing pets to be cured would deem pet food uselessWell, this is dependent on how they'd do it. Can pets be AoE cured as well? If not that severely helps pet food have a use since WHMs will often be too focused on healing to single target cure pets. Solo food would have a massive use too, such as Dyna, Salvage, and the like. I'm not saying you're wrong but admittedly it depends on a few things and food wouldn't be useless, just not as necessary as it is now.

[Demonjustin]

Or perhaps a simple fix would be to extend the duration of said JAs - maneuvers, steps, Angon, etc. then we don't have to constantly spam the JA during dps time. I was disappointed that so far the reforge sets don't offer duration boosts, maybe reforged Empyrean could have that? Or with the new job points system? (there better be more ways to get JPs on unwanted jobs though ...)
I think I did include the issue of JA delay in my list in an earlier post but no harm reiterating that point.Increased duration helps some, but not all jobs. Sure, DNC & PUP benefit, but what of DRG & BST for instance? We have to spam reward and completely avoid using breaths when possible because it's such a DPS loss to do so, things like this just can't be done with duration.

[Jinzha]

This is what you are saying now, lol, however, your original post stated, "Cool opinion" akin to me telling someone "Cool story bro". If this was not your intentions, then why bring up the fact that she is the minority? Or use sarcasm pertaining to her comments (Cool opinion, you clearly disagreed with her opinion). You could have just articulated your sentiments like the second paragraph. You have to admit, the cool opinion,was a bit sarcastic; it was also followed by you stating that she is in the minority. I am not twisting your words; you are just back tracking your comments; i mean, this is not personal, no harm, no foul; I even changed my stance upon hearing the comments in this thread, I can admit to something I did.

Oh I do admit that my entire comment towards her had a sarcastic overtone. I mean did you miss the fact that I called her a dumbass? I don't think that I was being subtle about my intentions towards her. When I said cool opinion, I meant it to be a red flag that I didn't agree with her at all. If the only thing you can pull out of my comment towards Krystal is the fact that I called her a minority in this thread, then you're clearly missing the point of my argument because that was only the epidermis. I'm not really interested in bickering about technicalities but if you'd like to, we can do this all day. However, Krystal represents a faction of people who like to poke holes in comments using the common 'World of Warcraft' rhetoric, and personally I'm not ok with that. I think if she wants to make a valid point, then she needs to use real examples and real numbers. This thread is a serious issue that needs serious attention, and people like Krystal find pleasure in dressing up the people who are actually concerned about this topic as complainers and whiners in hopes to demoralize the subject. This thread wouldn't have more that 20 pages of comments if people didn't find a serious need to revamp pet classes as a whole, and the hell if I'm going to watch our opinions get cock blocked because one little princess is afraid of us becoming just another MMO. So if I have to be the bad guy and say it how it is, then so be it. Most of the pet community players want to be able to play whatever job they want in any content and want to be on par with all the other classes, and honestly I don't think that's too much to ask for.

[WoW]

Well, this is dependent on how they'd do it. Can pets be AoE cured as well? If not that severely helps pet food have a use since WHMs will often be too focused on healing to single target cure pets. Solo food would have a massive use too, such as Dyna, Salvage, and the like. I'm not saying you're wrong but admittedly it depends on a few things and food wouldn't be useless, just not as necessary as it is now.

Pet food already has uses; also, a cure is a cure, AOE or single. It makes no sense to exclude aoe; if you are going to cure the pets then allow them to be cured by single or aoe.

I will say this though, you do have a point, pet may food may not become obsolete, i mean, why cure a pet when they have food that can heal for large amounts? Good point. curing pets may be unnecessary imo; why waste mp on a pet whom can be cured with food and dawns? Personally, I bring dawns and a plethora of pet food to battle and my pet is near indestructible on things that do not one-shot him. Also, not sure if whms would welcome the added strain of healing a pet that already has healing capabilities. Good point.

[WoW]

Oh I do admit that my entire comment towards her had a sarcastic overtone. I mean did you miss the fact that I called her a dumbass? I don't think that I was being subtle about my intentions towards her. When I said cool opinion, I meant it to be a red flag that I didn't agree with her at all. If the only thing you can pull out of my comment towards Krystal is the fact that I called her a minority in this thread, then you're clearly missing the point of my argument because that was only the epidermis. I'm not really interested in bickering about technicalities but if you'd like to, we can do this all day. However, Krystal represents a faction of people who like to poke holes in comments using the common 'World of Warcraft' rhetoric, and personally I'm not ok with that. I think if she wants to make a valid point, then she needs to use real examples and real numbers. This thread is a serious issue that needs serious attention, and people like Krystal find pleasure in dressing up the people who are actually concerned about this topic as complainers and whiners in hopes to demoralize the subject. This thread wouldn't have more that 20 pages of comments if people didn't find a serious need to revamp pet classes as a whole, and the hell if I'm going to watch our opinions get cock blocked because one little princess is afraid of us becoming just another MMO. So if I have to be the bad guy and say it how it is, then so be it. Most of the pet community players want to be able to play whatever job they want in any content and want to be on par with all the other classes, and honestly I don't think that's too much to ask for.

You already admitted to your intentions in the post; that is all I was saying, no need to discuss this any further

Edit: Vote up for being honest.

[WoW]

I never said that Terri didn't have the right to post in this forum, I simply asked for her to take her biased opinions elsewhere. He or she has the right to say no if he or she pleases.



My opinions are just opinions. Nothing more. Anyone who reads what I have to say can decide for themselves if they agree with them or not, but I'm not holding a knife to anyone's throat and saying that my opinions are absolute. I respect everyone's opinion here, and I'm willing to reconsider my own if the person is convincing enough, but if people have the right to make half thought remarks that are clearly bias and made out to irritate everyone rather than give constructive input, then I also have the right to give my opinion, although in may be a bit blunt. Here is a clear example of why I do what I do:



I mean come on. Krystal is clearly insulting everyone by saying that we're the reason why the game is the way it is. People like this start the cat fight first, so I should have the right to return fire by calling him or her a dumb-ass.



Again. Seriously? Like really seriously? Cool opinion, but I'm pretty sure she's a minority in this argument. Anyone who is content with pet jobs the way they are are simply content because they don't play pet jobs as a main class. For us who actually take the pet job class seriously, it's easy to realize that pet jobs are not quote on quote "fine the way they are".


Increased duration helps some, but not all jobs. Sure, DNC & PUP benefit, but what of DRG & BST for instance? We have to spam reward and completely avoid using breaths when possible because it's such a DPS loss to do so, things like this just can't be done with duration.

Imo, the job point system is the perfect opportunity for them to boost pet jobs. For instance, a merit that increases ready move dmg or pet critical hit rate. I mean, there are a plethora of possibilities; even give pets a JA or something. I cannot speak on other jobs, I am only a bst, lol.

[Stompa]

Customisable automaton clothing - the time is now!

:P

[Shinron-PUP]

Customisable automaton clothing - the time is now! :P

Like can we really lol? Beyond that, new pets would be nice. Bard Automaton is feasible now that they have been creating the Bard AI for trust NPCs. Even a Geomancer Automaton would be pretty interesting also. All attachment effects on the Automaton could be made into a Aura when that specific maneuver is up. BST could really use some better pets also. Unfortunately though, I don't think there should be any additional Automatons added until they revamp the current ones. Spiritreaver (BLM) is complete outdated and Harlequin died a long time ago and could be easily made into a useful Automaton. I think until they make manual magic execution, which they already mentioned they would do like 2-3 years ago, our BLM automaton will always be terrible. [Read the Bold]

*This is a post that was in the Puppetmaster forums some time ago

Greetings,
Sorry for the delay, but here is some information from the development team in regards to your feedback!

The maneuver duration, recast time, and overload are all balanced very subtly; through maneuvers, the automaton’s operability, as well as the frame and attachments, are largely affected. Due to this, we plan to create balance by adding and adjusting attachments and abilities without changing the operations of the base maneuvers.

In regards to abilities, we are making adjustments based on the original execution timing, however, for weapon skills we are looking into making it possible to select the execution timing manually. For magic, we believe the top priority is the revamping of recast times, so once we finalize those adjustments we plan on looking into being able to select the timing for that, as well.

We understand that there are times this is inconvenient for ranged/mage frames. We will look into increasing the distance for using Deploy.

With the current system, Scanner will detect resist rates, so by using a Scanner it should make it so your automaton does not cast this.
However, if there is even a small chance that the monster uses magic, the automaton will start to cast silence. The chance of there being a bug related to this isn’t impossible, so we will be checking on this.

Also, if you have any feedback such as “I don’t want silence to be cast on enemies that are highly resistant to silence” (ex: Make it so it doesn’t cast silence when the resist rate is over 60%) please make sure to let us know.

We are looking into changing the automaton behavior. Since this is something that we have received a lot of feedback about we will be looking into it, but since the workings of the automaton logic are so complex it will take some time.

We understand how you feel and are looking into separating the recast timers.

While we would like to do something for this, we would first need to perform a lot of work to revamp the user interface, so this will be difficult to accomplish right away. Sorry

We plan on revamping attachment stats, so there is a possibility that we make it so that there is no consumption of maneuvers. This doesn’t mean that we will be adjusting every attachment for this, but we will be looking at each one separately. If you have any feedback please let us know!

We will be performing adjustments on attachments that need adjusting as necessary.

Planning to implement this in the form of an attachment.

We are thinking about making adjustments in the form of attachments, not on the automaton or puppetmaster side. For example, how does implementing Strobe II sound?

Currently, we are thinking more in the direction of implementing superior lubricant, such as Lubricant +3, instead of directly increasing the physical resistance.

It doesn’t crit because it is recognized as a special ability. We are looking into it.

First we will be revamping attachments that need adjustments. After that we will take a look at the balance and look into this.

We definitely understand. Since automatons are different than player characters, and it is difficult to adjust the positioning of the automaton, we are looking into easing up or even eliminating the distance factor.

We would like to look into new automaton WS ideas, however, since you can recover MP through Deactivate/Activate and by using the Mana Converter, we think it would be better to look at different effects.

The damage is calculated as a special WS, however, we will be looking into making this easier to use while making use of its special properties since we hear a lot of people saying it keeps doing zero damage…



On a more realistic note, however, I think it's time that Automaton Attachments started being Macroable now. It takes way too much time to switch between pets which could easily be solved with either a auto-save set that we could choose from, or a way to macro in the attachments like equipment. The idea has already been shot down before, but I don't believe that such things are out of reach. Extrapolating even more, all pet jobs need similar touch ups. People have been making Quality of Life threads, and I think its time that we get a Quality of life thread for pet jobs. JA delays, long recast timers, expensive items such as pet foods, jugs, and Mulsims, are only a few examples of unnecessary suffrage that pet jobs face that could easily be fixed.

[Mitruya]

Increased duration helps some, but not all jobs. Sure, DNC & PUP benefit, but what of DRG & BST for instance? We have to spam reward and completely avoid using breaths when possible because it's such a DPS loss to do so, things like this just can't be done with duration.

For DRG, I was thinking along the lines of Angon. It seems to have a long animation during which I am not doing any damage. And the effect lasts what, a little over a minute? While the recast is 3 minutes. With so much chat spam in endgame, I can't keep track of it. If I manage to remember to re-apply it, I'm fumbling around in my menu checking the recast while being battered around by the monster. (people bitching about lack of challenge should play on a console ...)
And of course there's also re-applying Spirit Link and Steady Wing, not that the wyvern stays alive long enough. lol
On the other hand, Smiting Breath is useless so I never waste time on that JA.

[WoW]

Like can we really lol? Beyond that, new pets would be nice. Bard Automaton is feasible now that they have been creating the Bard AI for trust NPCs. Even a Geomancer Automaton would be pretty interesting also. All attachment effects on the Automaton could be made into a Aura when that specific maneuver is up. BST could really use some better pets also.

On a more realistic note, however, I think it's time that Automaton Attachments started being Macroable now. It takes way too much time to switch between pets which could easily be solved with either a auto-save set that we could choose from, or a way to macro in the attachments like equipment. The idea has already been shot down before, but I don't believe that such things are out of reach. Extrapolating even more, all pet jobs need similar touch ups. People have been making Quality of Life threads, and I think its time that we get a Quality of life thread for pet jobs. JA delays, long recast timers, expensive items such as pet foods, jugs, and Mulsims, are only a few examples of unnecessary suffrage that pet jobs face that could easily be fixed.

Lol, a geo or brd automaton would be pretty sweet/useful.

However, I cannot stress the bolded part enough; as it pertains to bst. I mean, the possibilities are out there, why not implement them? For instance; bst are dd, correct? Implementing the best dd pets would be the logical thing to do. Just look at the last batch of pets, there is not a solid dd out of the whole group (The bird looks cool though, lol). Why do they keep adding these mandies and frogs? Are scorpions really difficult to implement? They have been in the game since day one. Also, why do they keep removing useful/beneficial special abilities? I even created a thread about this in the bst job discussion. Why would you release some side-content with buffed monsters and all of their beneficial special abilities intact, but neglect a main job that has been in the game since day one? I doubt it would get a reply, I mean, if they wanted a scorpion jug in-game, it would have happened by now; somewhere between the plethora of mandies/vanity frogs and the addition of uncharmable mobs as jugs.

I am surprised more bst have not been questioning this. I mean, if they add a stripped jug with crappy ready moves, would the food buff even matter? How? Even REM dds need their ws to be effective. Ruinator with no JA buffs is strong, but not strong enough to compensate for our jug's crappy moves and the lack of offensive JAs. Our jugs should be used to put us on even ground with other dds; that is not possible if they are stripped down. This may come off as anger towards SE, but I am not angry, lol (it is only a game). I just want to know why, that is all; why not add a scorpion with all of their moves intact? Why are abilities stripped from pets? Bst needs better pets or a significant ready move dmg boost through job points.

[Ophannus]

The way I see it is, if mobs can unleash an AoE that hits everyone in the party including pets, why can't white mages hit a Wyvern or Automaton with a Curaga which hits all players? Just set the flag for AoE heals to include pets.

It would be balanced.

If AoE damage can hit pets why can't(shouldn't) AoE heals hit pets too?

[Damane]

Like can we really lol? Beyond that, new pets would be nice. Bard Automaton is feasible now that they have been creating the Bard AI for trust NPCs. Even a Geomancer Automaton would be pretty interesting also. All attachment effects on the Automaton could be made into a Aura when that specific maneuver is up. BST could really use some better pets also. Unfortunately though, I don't think there should be any additional Automatons added until they revamp the current ones. Spiritreaver (BLM) is complete outdated and Harlequin died a long time ago and could be easily made into a useful Automaton. I think until they make manual magic execution, which they already mentioned they would do like 2-3 years ago, our BLM automaton will always be terrible. [Read the Bold]

*This is a post that was in the Puppetmaster forums some time ago



On a more realistic note, however, I think it's time that Automaton Attachments started being Macroable now. It takes way too much time to switch between pets which could easily be solved with either a auto-save set that we could choose from, or a way to macro in the attachments like equipment. The idea has already been shot down before, but I don't believe that such things are out of reach. Extrapolating even more, all pet jobs need similar touch ups. People have been making Quality of Life threads, and I think its time that we get a Quality of life thread for pet jobs. JA delays, long recast timers, expensive items such as pet foods, jugs, and Mulsims, are only a few examples of unnecessary suffrage that pet jobs face that could easily be fixed.

lets fix first what the real problem is before adding anything new to the table: All pet jobs, pets takeing dmg, pets recieving proper buffs form brd/cor/geo etc.

in other words BARANCU!!!

[Shinron-PUP]

lets fix first what the real problem is before adding anything new to the table: All pet jobs, pets takeing dmg, pets recieving proper buffs form brd/cor/geo etc.

in other words BARANCU!!!

Yeah I definitely agree that survivability, pet jobs receiving proper buffs, better pet healing mechanics, and pet accuracy take precedence over any further additions, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to talk about other topics that also impact pet classes in this thread. Maybe it'll give the developers an idea of other considerations that need to be made when revamping pets and pet classes.

[Stompa]

The way I see it is, if mobs can unleash an AoE that hits everyone in the party including pets, why can't white mages hit a Wyvern or Automaton with a Curaga which hits all players? Just set the flag for AoE heals to include pets.

It would be balanced.

If AoE damage can hit pets why can't(shouldn't) AoE heals hit pets too?

I'm not saying that AOE cures including pets would be a bad idea. But from a logic perspective, automatons use special oils to repair damage to their mechanisms, bst pets use special foods to give their pets energy to recover.
As I understand the cure system it is religious, the WHM job storyline in the AF etc. is all tied to the Goddess, her love for the five races, and how priests and front-line priests (WHMs) can draw on the holy power of the Goddess to cure those five races.
But that is just storyline, it may be the reason that pet repairs and pet feeding have been kept separate from the priestly curing of the five races. I don't have any objections to the idea of AOE heals though, only that I can see the RPG-realism reasons they might have avoided it.

[WoW]

I'm not saying that AOE cures including pets would be a bad idea. But from a logic perspective, automatons use special oils to repair damage to their mechanisms, bst pets use special foods to give their pets energy to recover.
As I understand the cure system it is religious, the WHM job storyline in the AF etc. is all tied to the Goddess, her love for the five races, and how priests and front-line priests (WHMs) can draw on the holy power of the Goddess to cure those five races.
But that is just storyline, it may be the reason that pet repairs and pet feeding have been kept separate from the priestly curing of the five races. I don't have any objections to the idea of AOE heals though, only that I can see the RPG-realism reasons they might have avoided it.

Good point; personally, I never thought "Man, my pet could really use some whm cures," dawns and pet food are plenty for me personally. If the pet gets one-shotted, there is not much you can do about that cure wise, lol. Why waste mp on something that can be cured by more efficient (Broken) means. The only thing that is stopping healing bst pets as they are currently constructed is one-shots and $$$/entitlement. I mean, why would mages heal someone whom should have come prepared in the first place? I can see it now, (DD) "Why did you heal the pet?" (Me) "Because he was gonna die" (DD) "Pet food, do you need it?" Pet food cost money, but farming is free^^ This new pet food better be free or there is going to be a problem in the pet community. Gonna be an interesting few weeks to say the least.

[Telford]

I'm not saying that AOE cures including pets would be a bad idea. But from a logic perspective, automatons use special oils to repair damage to their mechanisms, bst pets use special foods to give their pets energy to recover.
As I understand the cure system it is religious, the WHM job storyline in the AF etc. is all tied to the Goddess, her love for the five races, and how priests and front-line priests (WHMs) can draw on the holy power of the Goddess to cure those five races.
But that is just storyline, it may be the reason that pet repairs and pet feeding have been kept separate from the priestly curing of the five races. I don't have any objections to the idea of AOE heals though, only that I can see the RPG-realism reasons they might have avoided it.

Automatons can already cast cure on themselves (which being robots I've always thought odd lore-wise but I guess they're magical robots), while mobs can already cure themselves and others by either using the cure spells or equivalent job abilities (healing breeze etc), and (some) avatars have magical blood pacts to cure themselves with, so I really don't see a problem lore-wise why they shouldn't be able to get outside cures.

On a more general note saying that pets use oils/pet food/mulsum/etc. to heal themselves so they shouldn't need cures is like saying since players can use potions they shouldn't need cures.

As for other buffs, pets really do need them and I seriously doubt the new acc food we'll be getting will be enough to close the gap so pet jobs will be viable in end game content. Even if the food brings pet accuracy up to snuff, pets will still suffer from lack of attack/m.atk/m.acc/r.acc and most likely r.atk. If its not technically feasible to change the spell targeting code to include pets (I understand from other threads about having spells affect other parties in an alliance that spells have only three target categories self/party/anyone) give all pet jobs an empathy like ability so we can copy the buffs to our pets indirectly.

[WoW]

Automatons can already cast cure on themselves (which being robots I've always thought odd lore-wise but I guess they're magical robots), while mobs can already cure themselves and others by either using the cure spells or equivalent job abilities (healing breeze etc), and (some) avatars have magical blood pacts to cure themselves with, so I really don't see a problem lore-wise why they shouldn't be able to get outside cures.

On a more general note saying that pets use oils/pet food/mulsum/etc. to heal themselves so they shouldn't need cures is like saying since players can use potions they shouldn't need cures.

As for other buffs, pets really do need them and I seriously doubt the new acc food we'll be getting will be enough to close the gap so pet jobs will be viable in end game content. Even if the food brings pet accuracy up to snuff, pets will still suffer from lack of attack/m.atk/m.acc/r.acc and most likely r.atk. If its not technically feasible to change the spell targeting code to include pets (I understand from other threads about having spells affect other parties in an alliance that spells have only three target categories self/party/anyone) give all pet jobs an empathy like ability so we can copy the buffs to our pets indirectly.

Lol, I knew someone would mention this. I brought abysseas potions every chance I got during that era. If there were potions that could stack, heal to almost full hp and constantly available like pet food, I would use them, lol. Actually, I do carry potions in my mog sack and quickly put them in inventory when I need them; but pet food there are not in terms of efficacy. I mean, you would not use dawns if they heal players? I would (perhaps there is a reason why dawns are not player usable "Wink").

Edit: On a serious note if anyone out there is aware of any stackable healing potions, please tell me (No sarcasm, would seriously use them. I do not know if any exist).

[WoW]

You guys/gals are entitled to your opinions; i will gladly accept cures on the pets^^

It just comes off as entitlement imo. I mean, the majority on in this thread feel pet food and jugs are too expensive to use; now they want curable pets on top of that. Guys; this thread also mentions pet food; what if they cost money?

Cost appears to concern the majority; what if the new food is craftable? Do you guys really believe it will be cheap? We all now by now that the new fad is always overpriced. For instance, several old/hardly ever used weapons are now over 100k due to the new fad; job specific weapons. When the new food is released and if it is crafable; it is going to be a whirlwind all over again; despite its' efficacy. I truly believe the new food could cost 50k, give a +25% boost in pet ws, 50% attack, magic attack, and acc, but ppl will still complain because it cost a little money. However, I can only speak for myself; if you guys do not like buying jugs, who am I to tell you "Screw you guys; everyone should farm or craft." Not gonna do that, until I start paying your subs. This is strictly my personal opinion, nothing more. As a 99bst, I do agree with pet survivability and damage buffs; however, pet items costing money? I just can't relate...I do not get it.....

The efficacy of the pets and its' price does not equate, I will say that. So I can agree, to an extent.

[Alhanelem]

It just comes off as entitlement imo. I mean, the majority on in this thread feel pet food and jugs are too expensive to use; now they want curable pets on top of that. Guys; this thread also mentions pet food; what if they cost money? It's not at all about entitlement, it's about good balance. Your pet is an extension of the pet job's being, and yet it can't be supported in any of the same ways as any other job.

[WoW]

It's not at all about entitlement, it's about good balance. Your pet is an extension of the pet job's being, and yet it can't be supported in any of the same ways as any other job.

I agree, to an extent. Pets can be cured; perhaps more efficiently than any dd, pets are pretty weak on harder content atm. If the tools to make our pets stronger were available; I truly believe ppl would still complain because it cost a few gil; that is all I way trying to say. Pets are an extension of our job, i agree. I just feel that individuals are throwing darts with this whole jug/food cost thing hoping SE bites.

However, I will say this, imo, SE shot itself in the foot with these pet jobs. Pets are extremely weak, hence SE is getting a barrage of complaints and suggestions thrown their way (Deservingly so) if the pets were stronger, the community would be forced to "get over it" akin to cost of items for other jobs. I do believe ppl would still complain if our jugs were simply amazing; however, they may get over it for an invite to delve; especially if it can survive the whole battle which was a complaint.

Perhaps ppl are not willing to pay for crap atm; in that case, I do not blame them. The current jugs should be free because they are crap. A free frog, stripped down boar, pink bird, and a mandy will not break the game. It would hurt a few of the crafters out there, but ppl should not be paying for this crap to begin with. Personally, I am more concerned with the efficacy of our pets; a cheap jug and a recycle esque JA will not matter if the jug is weak. Hopefully they also use the job point system to boost pets.

[Mitruya]

I have no complaints about farming/crafting/buying pet items, just as you would any other helpful item in the game. But as you say, I don't want to waste my time on crap. If this food the devs promise is amazing and gets us into content, then hell yeah I'll do whatever it takes to always have some on hand, and you wont hear a peep out of me about the gil cost.
My other wish is for Dawn Mulsums to stack!!

[WoW]

I have no complaints about farming/crafting/buying pet items, just as you would any other helpful item in the game. But as you say, I don't want to waste my time on crap. If this food the devs promise is amazing and gets us into content, then hell yeah I'll do whatever it takes to always have some on hand, and you wont hear a peep out of me about the gil cost.
My other wish is for Dawn Mulsums to stack!!

Word^^

I do not have high hopes for the food though; hopefully SE proves me wrong, but bst has been out since XI's release and this stuff is just being implemented? If this thread were not created would they even bothered? I predict disappointment; hopefully I am wrong. We may be better off waiting for XIV's version of bst XD.

[Shinron-PUP]

I wonder... If the game developers were to allow pets to be targeted through buffs, cures, and enhancing magic, if they would also extend targeting pets to job abilities as well. For example:
-Sambas
-Cover
-Trick Attack
-Decoy Shot
-Warcry
-Mantra
-Accomplice
-Summoner Bloodpacts
These are just a few job abilities that could potentially be used on pets and would also bring about new strategies. Things like Ranger's decoy shot and Thief's trick attack could be used to divert hate to a pet which would be a interesting strategy since pets are more expendable than players. The ValorEdge Automaton is not to far off from being able to tank, the only problem it has is hate control because it has relatively few moves that can actually maintain constant hate. With a proper DD sub THF, I could definitely see a Automaton tanking being pretty efficient. Even cover might have its own applications with Luopans if a Paladin wants to keep it alive for some time longer.

What do you guys think? Would allowing pets to also be targeted through job abilities be something that you would like to see if such implementations were possible?

[Tennotsukai]

I wonder... If the game developers were to allow pets to be targeted through buffs, cures, and enhancing magic, if they would also extend targeting pets to job abilities as well. For example:
-Sambas
-Cover
-Trick Attack
-Decoy Shot
-Warcry
-Mantra
-Accomplice
-Summoner Bloodpacts
These are just a few job abilities that could potentially be used on pets and would also bring about new strategies. Things like Ranger's decoy shot and Thief's trick attack could be used to divert hate to a pet which would be a interesting strategy since pets are more expendable than players. The ValorEdge Automaton is not to far off from being able to tank, the only problem it has is hate control because it has relatively few moves that can actually maintain constant hate. With a proper DD sub THF, I could definitely see a Automaton tanking being pretty efficient. Even cover might have its own applications with Luopans if a Paladin wants to keep it alive for some time longer.

What do you guys think? Would allowing pets to also be targeted through job abilities be something that you would like to see if such implementations were possible?

Of course! I wonder if such a buff would put pet jobs in end game content.

[Jinzha]

I wonder... If the game developers were to allow pets to be targeted through buffs, cures, and enhancing magic, if they would also extend targeting pets to job abilities as well. For example:
-Sambas
-Cover
-Trick Attack
-Decoy Shot
-Warcry
-Mantra
-Accomplice
-Summoner Bloodpacts
These are just a few job abilities that could potentially be used on pets and would also bring about new strategies. Things like Ranger's decoy shot and Thief's trick attack could be used to divert hate to a pet which would be a interesting strategy since pets are more expendable than players. The ValorEdge Automaton is not to far off from being able to tank, the only problem it has is hate control because it has relatively few moves that can actually maintain constant hate. With a proper DD sub THF, I could definitely see a Automaton tanking being pretty efficient. Even cover might have its own applications with Luopans if a Paladin wants to keep it alive for some time longer.

What do you guys think? Would allowing pets to also be targeted through job abilities be something that you would like to see if such implementations were possible?

Yeah, even if they were not to allow cures and buffs to also effect pets, I think that job abilities like Decoy shot and Trick attack/sneak attack should have always been able to be used on pets. I think something like this would have had a profound effect on solo strategy as well as in group content, however, which might be why the developers have neglected to ever make this possible. PUP, DRG, and BST all share a ability that erases hate to some degree (Ventriloquy, Super Jump, and Snarl). If trick attack was combined with ventriloquy, super jump, or snarl, it would allow pet jobs to easily divert hate to their pets whenever they wanted them to tank. Even in group content, Rangers, Thiefs, and /THF players could easily use pets as tanks and sources to throw excess hate on because, like you said, they are more expendable than players. With a solid party of THFs, /THF, or Rangers with Decoy shot, pets like ValorEdge, Avatars, and some Beastmaster pets could basically be used to tank which could be a pretty interesting substitute instead of bringing a Paladin to every event.

[Olor]

I have said for a long time that they should just straight up make BST into a tank. There are way too many generic DDs out there and BST sucks compared to all of them pretty much - so best way to make BST desired in groups is give it more tools to be a real tank (so more proper damage mitigation equipment/JAs and proper shields they can use and a second snarl or a lower recast on it, and maybe a way to suck hate off other players)

Pet would have to be curable by players though to make it work, unless you want to spend 2 mil gil and and have an entire inventory of dawn mulsims

[WoW]

I have said for a long time that they should just straight up make BST into a tank. There are way too many generic DDs out there and BST sucks compared to all of them pretty much - so best way to make BST desired in groups is give it more tools to be a real tank (so more proper damage mitigation equipment/JAs and proper shields they can use and a second snarl or a lower recast on it, and maybe a way to suck hate off other players)

Pet would have to be curable by players though to make it work, unless you want to spend 2 mil gil and and have an entire inventory of dawn mulsims

Good point; I was a tank during the abyssea era; holding hate while the blm land procs, etc, It can be done. I am uncertain if SE would do this; the right pets can tank, however, we never get the right pets. in their eyes, a slime with its' defense resistance removed will suffice, oh, btw, epoxy spread is your only move, it cost 3 charges; enjoy^^

Edit: Cannot wait til the next batch of "mystery jugs" are released; it looks like a normal mob, until you get a glimpse of its' ready move list.

[Leonardus]

Totally agree Olor.

As a BST with my friends, I'm usually co-tanking something, or just fully outright. Unfortunately it does burn through Theta biscuits and sometimes mulsums, but I don't mind making more when needed.

I'd also love to use a shield, but there are very few decent ones, and in doing so, you lose equipping a 2nd axe with pet attributes on it, so it's just not useful in most situations.


Good point; I was a tank during the abyssea era; holding hate while the blm land procs, etc, It can be done. I am uncertain if SE would do this; the right pets can tank, however, we never get the right pets..

SE gave us AttentiveIbuki, she has a large amount of slashing resistance, which is great for tanking quite a few enemies, so I would not say "never."

[dasva]

SE gave us AttentiveIbuki, she has a large amount of slashing resistance, which is great for tanking quite a few enemies, so I would not say "never."

It also iirc has an attack and defense penalty and mediocre base stats to be with. Will have less defense than the bst generally even unbuffed. Also has +50% peircing dmg taken :(

[WoW]

Totally agree Olor.

As a BST with my friends, I'm usually co-tanking something, or just fully outright. Unfortunately it does burn through Theta biscuits and sometimes mulsums, but I don't mind making more when needed.

I'd also love to use a shield, but there are very few decent ones, and in doing so, you lose equipping a 2nd axe with pet attributes on it, so it's just not useful in most situations.



SE gave us AttentiveIbuki, she has a large amount of slashing resistance, which is great for tanking quite a few enemies, so I would not say "never."

Too bad not all mobs do slashing dmg XD

But my point was, SE is notorious for removing special abilities from pets. Also, there were ppl complaining about pet survivability, hence i am not sure Ibuki is cutting it. There are better tanking pets out there, that is all I am saying. Telfaires pose not thread to me, even when I am using slashing against them. Their def is less than stellar. However, slimes have resistance against several weapon types.

[Leonardus]

WoW, I really doubt SE will give us a slime. What are they, -50 to -75% resistant to everything?

Logically, we can expect an evasive pet, another Gerard or something with similar special defenses like Ibuki. If you guys mention defense too much, we'll get CrudeRaphie 2.0. (What a pain in the butt synth that was...)

[WoW]

WoW, I really doubt SE will give us a slime. What are they, -50 to -75% resistant to everything?

Logically, we can expect an evasive pet, another Gerard or something with similar special defenses like Ibuki. If you guys mention defense too much, we'll get CrudeRaphie 2.0. (What a pain in the butt synth that was...)

Most bosses use elemental special attacks; hence they would not be invincible. SE could also give us a crab pet with all of his moves intact. Venom shower and mega scissors will not break the game. The charmable crabs in rala use it; I mean, big deal, your pet does respectable dmg (Like a 119 pet should), whoopdeedoo. It is not like bst have any offensive JAs beside killer instinct.

Raphie was awesome (In theory, like all of our mystery jugs), but something was not right about him. His defense and hp were suspect. however, SE may think the same as you Leo; which is why our pets are always stripped down. Their wild counterparts have all of their native abilities so should the jugs. Otherwise delete bst from the game, if you cannot give us the good stuff, why bother with bst? Also Leo, slimes were on the bst poll last year; they are not out of the question. A wivre, Uragnite, rala esque crab, ruszor, and gnats appear to be to be superior tanks. BTW SE, any plans for another bst pet poll? A detailed poll with move suggestions would be awesome^^

[Tennotsukai]

Another pet poll would be awesome.

[WoW]

Another pet poll would be awesome.

Yes, it would^^ You see what the last one produced; Falcorr was insane at that time.

Better than any non-poll jug imo (That includes Ibuki, falcorr is pretty old; not sure he caps as high)

Edit: Dasva mentioned a poll with move suggestions, that would kill off the "mystery pet" vibe. We need these polls imo; the players appear to know their stuff; I mean, look at falcorr, he is by far the best jug ever. A DD/Tank? wow (No pun intended lol).

[Olor]

I'd also love to use a shield, but there are very few decent ones, and in doing so, you lose equipping a 2nd axe with pet attributes on it, so it's just not useful in most situations.



I agree there are not any shields worth using really - which is why I said if they were going to make us a tank they should give us better ones (one with 25% DT for our pet would be awesome, for example) - Even if they don't make us a tank they should give us some shields which are not utter crap, or just give us dual wield already so I don't have to gimp myself further with a non-DD sub.

[WoW]

Shields are cool, however, the majority of bst i see dual wield axes. A Native dual wield trait may be nice (I believe this was already discussed though). Would allow us to sub war, hence dd more efficiently.

[Railer]

Was really hoping to see more on Beastmaster on Job adjustments page, please uncap more jugs and take some advice from thread.