A Suggestion From The Pet Job Community: Stop Ignoring Us and Listen To Our Plea.

[Vold]

Spidey sense is warning me to prepare for gimped BST melee food in exchange for the stats carrying over to pet thereby solving nothing and making the addition null and void. :x Still, I'll decide to stay positive until that is confirmed.

[Siviard]

Spidey sense is warning me to prepare for gimped BST melee food in exchange for the stats carrying over to pet thereby solving nothing and making the addition null and void. :x Still, I'll decide to stay positive until that is confirmed.

Agreed. I'm reserving judgment on the "Pet Job Foods" until after implementation.

[Olor]

Was really hoping to see more on Beastmaster on Job adjustments page, please uncap more jugs and take some advice from thread.

Yeah I don't understand why SMN and PUP get to use all their pets at max level but we can only use a few.

[WoW]

^^I agree with all of the above.

Personally; if the pet food is less than stellar; I give up, seriously, I am done. No more suggestions and browsing the bst forums. Bst have been in-game since day one, however, they are still trying to figure out how to buff pets. Strangely enough, some side content was released which includes buffed pets, hmmmmmm.

If they do not get it after XI's eleventh anniversary...perhaps it is not meant to be, just my 2 cents. We should not have to tell developers how to develop their content; sure we can make suggestion, but recently, it appears as if we are telling them how to develop their jobs. No disrespect to SE, my words have no malicious intent, that this is just how I see it atm.

If we did not make suggestions for pet buffs, would they even bothered to implement it? Somewhat troubling when you think about it.........

[Camiie]

Yeah I don't understand why SMN and PUP get to use all their pets at max level but we can only use a few.

I'm going to make some devs' and likely players' heads explode, but I'll just go ahead and say it... All pets should spawn at the master's level/average item level. If I summon Courier Carrie and my average item level is 119 then she should be 119. If I summon Carbuncle and my average item level is 117 then he should be 117. It's so simple it's stupid that it hasn't worked this way all along.

Beast Affinity can be given a different purpose. Sachets can be given alternate stats/bonuses. Nirvana's bonus can remain as it's a Mythic and should have something exceptional on it.

[Demonjustin]

average item levelNo. Weapon Item levels, screw averages. The average system sucks for Trusts and doing it to Pet jobs would only force them to use nothing but 119 gear too, it's stupid it doesn't just depend on weapon since the weapon a player uses is what determines the majority of their DMG as well. A player using a 117 Axe in 119 gear won't do as well as a player using a 119 weapon and 117 gear, why should the pet be any different?

I agree with the idea of having pets just generally scaling in that way, just not to the average, but rather the weapon. As for Beast Affinity it could be something like an extra 1% (JA)Haste on your pet or 2 STR/DEX/VIT/Ect. per merit, while the hands would increase it to 3. Something along those lines as boosts when the pet is summoned would be fine I think.

Sachets could just get more -Blood Pact Time II.

[Railer]

I would rather have Fencer replaced by pet accuracy and attack passive trait.

[Calatilla]

No. Weapon Item levels, screw averages. The average system sucks for Trusts and doing it to Pet jobs would only force them to use nothing but 119 gear too, it's stupid it doesn't just depend on weapon since the weapon a player uses is what determines the majority of their DMG as well. A player using a 117 Axe in 119 gear won't do as well as a player using a 119 weapon and 117 gear, why should the pet be any different?

I agree with the idea of having pets just generally scaling in that way, just not to the average, but rather the weapon. As for Beast Affinity it could be something like an extra 1% (JA)Haste on your pet or 2 STR/DEX/VIT/Ect. per merit, while the hands would increase it to 3. Something along those lines as boosts when the pet is summoned would be fine I think.

Sachets could just get more -Blood Pact Time II.

Weapon item levels might work for jobs like BST and PUP that don't change their main weapon when they use certain JA's but for SMN this would suck. If however the avatar was to stay at the level of the weapon it was summoned with regardless of current equipped weapon I`d be ok with this.

[Camiie]

Heck I'd go so far as to say that the pet should spawn at the level of your highest ilevel piece of gear regardless of slot.

[Olor]

No. Weapon Item levels, screw averages. The average system sucks for Trusts and doing it to Pet jobs would only force them to use nothing but 119 gear too, it's stupid it doesn't just depend on weapon since the weapon a player uses is what determines the majority of their DMG as well. A player using a 117 Axe in 119 gear won't do as well as a player using a 119 weapon and 117 gear, why should the pet be any different?

I agree with the idea of having pets just generally scaling in that way, just not to the average, but rather the weapon. .

NOOOOO. I hate this for bst. I hate hate hate it. I should be able to wear the best axe for the situation regardless of ilevel - since they don't actually put best stats on higher ilevel stuff. I mean just look at the difference between Hunahpu and the Eminent Axe

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130802003247/ffxi/images/4/47/Hunahpu.png

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131226003346/ffxi/images/e/eb/Eminent_Axe.jpg

Why would I ever want to equip eminent over hunahpu? +30 accuracy I dearly need and +3 haste my pet needs SOOO BAD. But I get penalized heavily for choosing the axe that actually has important stats for my pet. I don't know what the solution is but ilevel has @#%^ed BST badly. I can't even use my PDT axes in offhand cause my pet automagically loses HP. It's nonsense. I think if they want to keep this system it should not be dynamic - I should be able to use highest ilevel weapon when calling my pet and then switch to whatever axe I want without my pet losing HP/stats other than what is visible on the axe. The way it is now would be like if they made it so I have to full time monster gloves or lose the levels I got from using them.

As a BST I long chose axes that may not be the highest damage but that had utility uses for my pet. Now I am penalized for doing so. Also, being punished for using a beautiful axe like Hunahpu is really crappy.

When I'm on a backline mage I don't get punished for choosing a stave or wand that has stats other than skill+ that boost my job - why as a bst should I be forced to use the highest ilevel even when it sucks compared to a lower one? OR LOSE LEVELS on my pet.

[WoW]

NOOOOO. I hate this for bst. I hate hate hate it. I should be able to wear the best axe for the situation regardless of ilevel - since they don't actually put best stats on higher ilevel stuff. I mean just look at the difference between Hunahpu and the Eminent Axe

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130802003247/ffxi/images/4/47/Hunahpu.png

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131226003346/ffxi/images/e/eb/Eminent_Axe.jpg

Why would I ever want to equip eminent over hunahpu? +30 accuracy I dearly need and +3 haste my pet needs SOOO BAD. But I get penalized heavily for choosing the axe that actually has important stats for my pet. I don't know what the solution is but ilevel has @#%^ed BST badly. I can't even use my PDT axes in offhand cause my pet automagically loses HP. It's nonsense.

Spot on Olor^^

Those -PDT axes really screw bst over imo. None of the higher tier axes have -PDT on them, blah.

[Olor]

It's like they thought allowing BST to have 10% PDT on their pet would somehow be gamebreaking - when in reality no one wants to invite us to anything ever and PDT would just make it so maybe we could participate in WKR without spending millions and/or spending half our time in there waiting for call beast timer.

Mostly I'm just mad cause I got Hunahpu last night and I have almost finished saving up for a JSE axe, and I realized I'll have to sacrifice pet stats if I want to offhand hunahpu over the hideous, non-bst specific eminent axe.

[WoW]

It's like they thought allowing BST to have 10% PDT on their pet would somehow be gamebreaking - when in reality no one wants to invite us to anything ever and PDT would just make it so maybe we could participate in WKR without spending millions and/or spending half our time in there waiting for call beast timer.

Mostly I'm just mad cause I got Hunahpu last night and I have almost finished saving up for a JSE axe, and I realized I'll have to sacrifice pet stats if I want to offhand hunahpu over the hideous, non-bst specific eminent axe.

There is alot of that going around; they may not give a damn honestly, lol. Select a few golden childs every few months to prevent a complete uprising then repeat the process. Just keep a few playable jobs is their motto I guess; maybe they have given up. "Shrugs"

[Demonjustin]

Ok, you make a good point, but at the same time it won't work either way then because full 119 gear isn't optimally useful either. Sometimes you want full 119, sometimes you want a mix, but it's stupid if pets are thrown down to level 117 because my average is 117. The level of our pet is determined at the time of being summoned anyways in the case of BST, so that argument holds less weight, however when it comes to SMN I'll admit it's much more accurate.

[Kensagaku]

Why would I ever want to equip eminent over hunahpu? +30 accuracy I dearly need and +3 haste my pet needs SOOO BAD. But I get penalized heavily for choosing the axe that actually has important stats for my pet. I don't know what the solution is but ilevel has @#%^ed BST badly. I can't even use my PDT axes in offhand cause my pet automagically loses HP. It's nonsense.One quick note; I could be wrong, but last I checked it was only the main-hand weapon that affects your pet level; offhanding a PDT or at least switching it in to absorb a big hit should not affect your pet's HP or stats in the least.

In fact, according to the December update (boy, has it been that long?):

"The following attributes of pets summoned using the "Call Beast" command will now increase further based on the item level of the equipped main-hand weapon.
STR / DEX/ VIT / AGI / INT / MND / CHR / Accuracy / Attack / Ranged Attack / Defense"

So you can offhand whatever you want, meaning your PDT astolfo isn't completely useless when it comes to your pet taking hits.

[Olor]

Ok, you make a good point, but at the same time it won't work either way then because full 119 gear isn't optimally useful either. Sometimes you want full 119, sometimes you want a mix, but it's stupid if pets are thrown down to level 117 because my average is 117. The level of our pet is determined at the time of being summoned anyways in the case of BST, so that argument holds less weight, however when it comes to SMN I'll admit it's much more accurate.

No, pets level goes down if you swap weapons. I agree with you against averaging out it also sucks. Would be ok if pet level was determined by weapon when summoned and then could swap weapons - on bst can't. At least smn can change staves without gimping their smn now.

[Olor]

One quick note; I could be wrong, but last I checked it was only the main-hand weapon that affects your pet level; offhanding a PDT or at least switching it in to absorb a big hit should not affect your pet's HP or stats in the least.

In fact, according to the December update (boy, has it been that long?):

"The following attributes of pets summoned using the "Call Beast" command will now increase further based on the item level of the equipped main-hand weapon.
STR / DEX/ VIT / AGI / INT / MND / CHR / Accuracy / Attack / Ranged Attack / Defense"

So you can offhand whatever you want, meaning your PDT astolfo isn't completely useless when it comes to your pet taking hits.

I noticed hp of pet change when i swapped offhands last. Maybe it was something else (pet was fighting). Would be nice if thats the case. Thanks!

[Railer]

Did anyone mention having jugs and food stack to 99?

[Mitruya]

Great idea, Railer. Add to that Automaton oils also.

[Olor]

Did anyone mention having jugs and food stack to 99?

No thanks. Stacks are expensive enough. 99 of the pink bird would be 10 million+
And you'd also be stuck with a whole crapton of pets whenever they obsolete older ones through level caps

[Railer]

No thanks. Stacks are expensive enough. 99 of the pink bird would be 10 million+
And you'd also be stuck with a whole crapton of pets whenever they obsolete older ones through level caps
Well I kinda meant same recipe just larger number per synth like ninja tools ect, while they're at it take the cap off jug pets..

[Mitruya]

Well I didn't think about that, Olor. How about pet food and automaton oils at least to 99, that wouldn't get obsoleted.

[Olor]

Well I didn't think about that, Olor. How about pet food and automaton oils at least to 99, that wouldn't get obsoleted.

I'd be fine with that. Let us stack dawn mulsim while we are at it.

[Lithera]

Looks like the food is going to be at 110.

[Olor]

Looks like the food is going to be at 110.

110 acc for master and pet or pet only?

[Kensagaku]

Well we know it's 110 acc for pet, and in the update notes:

"Addition of food that affects both player and pet" - So we know we'll get SOME bonus, the question is whether or not it'll be the same type/value of boost or if it has different effects on master and pet.

[WoW]

Hmmm; perhaps I am missing something, but personally, I eat meat, so this food is acc bonus only? My pet needs acc, but I like att. Guess this will be good for higher tier crap like the new delve areas or something (If you can get a invite, hehehe).

[Mitruya]

Yeah, I'm really wondering what exactly this is for.
If I'm soloing, I can switch around my gear, use attachments, or whatever for better pet performance (which may or may not benefit my own DPS though, but since I'm not in a timed zerg event it doesn't matter as much).
I'm not sure this is going to suddenly get me invited as PUP over DRG (not that I don't enjoy playing DRG of course) unless my PUP suddenly dishes out more damage ... and what good does it do if the pet can't stay alive? Not to mention the need to shed hate or stay out of range. Generally I end up being COR for linkshell events due to so few jobs being able to actually beat on the mobs in the first place without being one-shotted.
(And yes I know PUPs have a hate-shedding tool, but DRG does more damage without constant JAs and it's not the end of the world when the pet dies.)
I haven't played BST and SMN in a while so I can't really speak for those.

[Lithera]

I hope it's a juice so we can eat something else for our selves.

[WoW]

Seriously though, jugs do not deal decent, yes decent, dmg on tougher crap, more acc is great, but those mosquito bites will not faze any bosses.

[Jinzha]

Once again the game developers screw us over. 110 accuracy is not going to be enough to get us over the 50%~75% hit rate threshold in high level content like delve. But whatever, lets just wait it out another year and maybe they'll get around to actually solving the issue.

[Railer]

How about making all Ready moves 1charge S.E.

[WoW]

SE could boost pets through the job point system; I mean, why implement a useless system with sub-par enhancements, just saying.

They are making this sooooooooo complicated, lol. Hopefully the new categories does just that; we shall see Thursday, gonna save my complaints until then.

[Damane]

Once again the game developers screw us over. 110 accuracy is not going to be enough to get us over the 50%~75% hit rate threshold in high level content like delve. But whatever, lets just wait it out another year and maybe they'll get around to actually solving the issue.

it is quiet substantional and should be enough with an ilvl 119 pet and pet:acc gear, the question is if there is gear out there that has pet:acc on it and doesnt gimp the master totally

[WoW]

Even if it was 300 acc, jugs do crap dmg, thus nothing has really changed; your pet hits more, but it also hits for very little dmg. Example, your pet's acc has scaled immensely; however, the other stats are still lagging behind. This will greatly affect your dmg output on lvl128 content. Great acc, but horrid attack.

[Damane]

Even if it was 300 acc, jugs do crap dmg, thus nothing has really changed; your pet hits more, but it also hits for very little dmg. Example, your pet's acc has scaled immensely; however, the other stats are still lagging behind. This will greatly affect your dmg output on lvl128 content. Great acc, but horrid attack.

pet pdif is wierd, attack does almost next to nothign for pet attacks, it has an effect but not such a huge effect like a player getting the same attack (ecxeptions are physical BP, SE recently uped the Pdif cap on those I think). The most important part for pets is acc atm (and m.acc/mab), because atk wont do much and never did much for pet auto-attacks.

and of course as allways pet survivability

[Alhanelem]

Unless this food also gives the master stats, nobody will use it. Puppetmasters can not be competitive without fighting themselves- even 999999 accuracy won't change that. Summoners can use this with minimal consequences, but they also don't need it as badly as far as I can tell. Dragoons could care less about their pet's accuracy (pls correct me if I'm wrong) and/or they at least wouldn't sacrifice their own stats to make their wyvern miss less. BST I can't really comment on as I know little about it.

[Prothscar]

pet pdif is wierd, attack does almost next to nothign for pet attacks, it has an effect but not such a huge effect like a player getting the same attack (ecxeptions are physical BP, SE recently uped the Pdif cap on those I think). The most important part for pets is acc atm (and m.acc/mab), because atk wont do much and never did much for pet auto-attacks.

and of course as allways pet survivability

that's not how pet pDIF works. there's a tiny difference between pet pDIF and player pDIF (well, for avatars and jugs anyway. I know nothing about automatons and wyverns), and it's actually a positive thing: ratio -> pDIF conversion has a different formula at low ratio, allowing pets to take less of a hit at low ratio as compared to a player. other than that, pets have higher ratio caps (not a negative, it means their damage gets multiplied by an even greater amount than players if you are able to get that much attack, which you can't, but anyway), different level difference bonuses (as in, they actually get them for being higher level than the target), and different level difference penalties. overall, pets actually have a stronger, more favorable pDIF function than players do, so not sure why you think it's terrible.

the real problem with pet pDIF is that pets get such sickeningly low ratios on higher level targets due to a lack of attack buffs. this food won't change that at all really, however if the MAB/MACC bonuses are decent then SMNs could see some use out of it. the attack and accuracy buffs won't be close to enough to make pet damage relevant on anything that it isn't already "good enough" on. not sure why SE thinks that a 100~120 (I don't remember the quotable value, it's somewhere around there) acc/atk compensates for marches, madrigals, minuets, chaos roll, hunter's roll, etc., but whatever. guess pets aren't destined to be useful on anything above lvl 115. it's pretty much the same boat as blue magic.

[Damane]

that's not how pet pDIF works. there's a tiny difference between pet pDIF and player pDIF (well, for avatars and jugs anyway. I know nothing about automatons and wyverns), and it's actually a positive thing: ratio -> pDIF conversion has a different formula at low ratio, allowing pets to take less of a hit at low ratio as compared to a player. other than that, pets have higher ratio caps (not a negative, it means their damage gets multiplied by an even greater amount than players if you are able to get that much attack, which you can't, but anyway), different level difference bonuses (as in, they actually get them for being higher level than the target), and different level difference penalties. overall, pets actually have a stronger, more favorable pDIF function than players do, so not sure why you think it's terrible.

the real problem with pet pDIF is that pets get such sickeningly low ratios on higher level targets due to a lack of attack buffs. this food won't change that at all really, however if the MAB/MACC bonuses are decent then SMNs could see some use out of it. the attack and accuracy buffs won't be close to enough to make pet damage relevant on anything that it isn't already "good enough" on. not sure why SE thinks that a 100~120 (I don't remember the quotable value, it's somewhere around there) acc/atk compensates for marches, madrigals, minuets, chaos roll, hunter's roll, etc., but whatever. guess pets aren't destined to be useful on anything above lvl 115. it's pretty much the same boat as blue magic.

i never said its terrible, I only said that pet pdif is kinda wierd. In my experience pet: atk never helped me much at all on anything remotly hard and i would advice to focus on pet:acc. I was assuming we were talking about high lvl stuff, because on low lvl stuff one wouldnt need the pet food anyway. but I am glad that you actually said that pet: atk effects pets in a bigger ration the players with same atk, just that the amount of atk for pets to see a big difference is not available.

[WoW]

that's not how pet pDIF works. there's a tiny difference between pet pDIF and player pDIF (well, for avatars and jugs anyway. I know nothing about automatons and wyverns), and it's actually a positive thing: ratio -> pDIF conversion has a different formula at low ratio, allowing pets to take less of a hit at low ratio as compared to a player. other than that, pets have higher ratio caps (not a negative, it means their damage gets multiplied by an even greater amount than players if you are able to get that much attack, which you can't, but anyway), different level difference bonuses (as in, they actually get them for being higher level than the target), and different level difference penalties. overall, pets actually have a stronger, more favorable pDIF function than players do, so not sure why you think it's terrible.

the real problem with pet pDIF is that pets get such sickeningly low ratios on higher level targets due to a lack of attack buffs. this food won't change that at all really, however if the MAB/MACC bonuses are decent then SMNs could see some use out of it. the attack and accuracy buffs won't be close to enough to make pet damage relevant on anything that it isn't already "good enough" on. not sure why SE thinks that a 100~120 (I don't remember the quotable value, it's somewhere around there) acc/atk compensates for marches, madrigals, minuets, chaos roll, hunter's roll, etc., but whatever. guess pets aren't destined to be useful on anything above lvl 115. it's pretty much the same boat as blue magic.

Bingo. Nail on the head

Some think that acc is the answer; for now, ok, but there will come a time when your pet will need to do damage.............having partially boosted pets is not the answer; it is akin to releasing a half a$$ job, ppl will be back on these forums complaining this week.

[WoW]

How about making all Ready moves 1charge S.E.

I will do you one better, a TP bar; the ready meter is a hidden restriction, they think we are not aware of that, but we are. This meter allows them to dictate when our pets can do special abilities. For instance, imagine a ready bar for a Samurai. Fudo: 3 charges, Shoha: 2 charges; Upheaval: 2 charges, Ukko: 2 charges, pretty sucky huh? What made SE think a meter was a good idea compared to a normal tp bar. Granted pets do not get tp nearly as fast, but still, waiting to do powerful moves is a pain.

Edit: Imagine how horrible monstrosity would be with a ready meter.

[Camate]

Greetings,

In addition to the new food items that are coming in the May version update that will boost stats for both master and pet, we are planning to make further adjustments for beastmaster moving forward. One of these adjustments will take place in the June version update and we will be adding an HQ version of Swirling Broth. With this adjustment, even if you do not have equipment with Beast Affinity, you will be able to achieve a pet level of 119 with Droopy Dortwin.

The May version update takes place this week, so be sure to try out the new food and let us know your feedback!

[Malthar]

Hi Camate!

How are you today? Good? Fabulous!

Can we get the same benefits as the smn and have our pets, with proper gear, spawn 1-2 levels above us? If you could make this happen that would be keen.

Thanks Much!
A humble Beastmaster.

[Olor]

Greetings,

In addition to the new food items that are coming in the May version update that will boost stats for both master and pet, we are planning to make further adjustments for beastmaster moving forward. One of these adjustments will take place in the June version update and we will be adding an HQ version of Swirling Broth. With this adjustment, even if you do not have equipment with Beast Affinity, you will be able to achieve a pet level of 119 with Droopy Dortwin.

The May version update takes place this week, so be sure to try out the new food and let us know your feedback!

Glad to hear some additional adjustments are coming - no one ever wants me on beastmaster for group play. They say "do you have a DD?" No, BST is not a DD. I hope there is more than just a HQ jug that costs a fortune. Can you please relay to the dev team that its very frustrating to have to spend so much gil just to play beastmaster? Considering we're the only pet job that has to pay for our pet, can they stop putting low drop rate items as ingredients for our jugs? Ranger gets 90% recycle rate for ammo - ours goes poof! Not fun. We definitely should not have to rely on a high quality consumable synth either.

[WoW]

Good news, glad to hear that they will be adjusting bst moving forward; however, the hq swirling broth will change nothing, droopy sucks with merits and the gloves; this will allows those whom do not possess the aforementioned to suck less, but still suck, like the bst whom have those things.

Edit: i really do appreciate the communaction; it is excellent^^ However, I am just keeping it real, a hq rabbit is not news worthy; now, if SE would announce a scorpion jug or something, that will be breaking news imo. Droopy already exist, lol.

[HimuraKenshyn]

Can we ease up on the cray ingredients to make some of these jugs....

[Genoxd]

Greetings,

In addition to the new food items that are coming in the May version update that will boost stats for both master and pet, we are planning to make further adjustments for beastmaster moving forward. One of these adjustments will take place in the June version update and we will be adding an HQ version of Swirling Broth. With this adjustment, even if you do not have equipment with Beast Affinity, you will be able to achieve a pet level of 119 with Droopy Dortwin.

The May version update takes place this week, so be sure to try out the new food and let us know your feedback!

Where are my HQ avatars?

[WoW]

Where are my HQ avatars?

No clue, but you could have XIV's version of avatars.

[Railer]

Greetings,

In addition to the new food items that are coming in the May version update that will boost stats for both master and pet, we are planning to make further adjustments for beastmaster moving forward. One of these adjustments will take place in the June version update and we will be adding an HQ version of Swirling Broth. With this adjustment, even if you do not have equipment with Beast Affinity, you will be able to achieve a pet level of 119 with Droopy Dortwin.

The May version update takes place this week, so be sure to try out the new food and let us know your feedback!

While it is nice to hear some adjustments are taking place there are situations where a beast(pet) is not the best option.(knotted root intimidates pet lol.) Would be nice to have pets available max cap with beast affinity gear and merits of ever kind to maximize killer instinct job ability. To me most of the beastmaster nerfs in place are outdated for older version game balancing.

[Edyth]

No clue, but you could have XIV's version of avatars.

Good God, no thanks. Summoning a mangled, faceless, legless, stickman version of Ifrit just doesn't do it for me.


Where are my HQ avatars?

They appear when you equip Seraphicaller.

[Damane]

Where are my HQ avatars?

its called seraphicaller, try and get one (they drop pretty decent in Divine might II)

[Zeargi]

No clue, but you could have XIV's version of avatars.

That wouldn't be so bad TBH, They can be buffed, healed, and can be told to stay put.


its called seraphicaller, try and get one (they drop pretty decent in Divine might II)

That'd be nice if SMN could go to those fights :X

[Raydeus]

Would it be too crazy to be able to equip jug pets with some pet gear? Nothing crazy, just maybe 3 pieces (head, body and feet.)

But then, while it would be funny to see Mandy pets in armor I have no idea how that would work on Leeches...

Maybe just put them in a leather bag and pretend they are armored? XD

[Demonjustin]

Where are my HQ avatars?You've had those for years. Garuda? She's a HQ Wind Spirit, Ramuh? He's a HQ Thunder Spirit.

No really though, like everyone else said just use Seraphicaller & Nirvana.

[Mitruya]

Where are my HQ avatars?

Where's my HQ wyvern like the one the Campaign NPC Achtelle has? :p
Or better yet, one that can stay alive in endgame content...

[WoW]

Where's my HQ wyvern like the one the Campaign NPC Achtelle has? :p
Or better yet, one that can stay alive in endgame content...

Drg DPS would be insane with one of those.

[WoW]

Would it be too crazy to be able to equip jug pets with some pet gear? Nothing crazy, just maybe 3 pieces (head, body and feet.)

But then, while it would be funny to see Mandy pets in armor I have no idea how that would work on Leeches...

Maybe just put them in a leather bag and pretend they are armored? XD

Took them like ,10 years to implement this; too bad it was not on bst tho :(

[Camate]

Greetings,


Can we ease up on the cray ingredients to make some of these jugs....

Speaking specifically for Swirling Broth, the development team is currently looking into making it slightly easier to obtain the Verboshroom by making this a drop item from the Funguar monsters that are found in Sih Gates and Cirdas Caverns.

[WoW]

Greetings,



Speaking specifically for Swirling Broth, the development team is currently looking into making it slightly easier to obtain the Verboshroom by making this a drop item from the Funguar monsters that are found in Sih Gates and Cirdas Caverns.

great news, those shrooms are a pain to gather at times^^

[Rwolf]

Can they also just make some of the ingredients be trash drops from events as well? Beyond things that conserve other types of expendables, there's a reason it's a lot cheaper to purchase other types of them for other jobs. Their materials drop like crazy as trash drops from other events. While some people will always harvest and farm their own materials, a lot of it comes from people unloading their inventory and buying what is on the auction house. It would be nice for the same to be done with more food ingredients.

[dasva]

Greetings,



Speaking specifically for Swirling Broth, the development team is currently looking into making it slightly easier to obtain the Verboshroom by making this a drop item from the Funguar monsters that are found in Sih Gates and Cirdas Caverns.

Too bad that's an undercapped pet... what about the availability of ingredients for pets that can actually go up to 119? I mean ibuki goes for like 300k a stack on my server

[Demonjustin]

Too bad that's an undercapped pet... what about the availability of ingredients for pets that can actually go up to 119? I mean ibuki goes for like 300k a stack on my server
In addition to the new food items that are coming in the May version update that will boost stats for both master and pet, we are planning to make further adjustments for beastmaster moving forward. One of these adjustments will take place in the June version update and we will be adding an HQ version of Swirling Broth. With this adjustment, even if you do not have equipment with Beast Affinity, you will be able to achieve a pet level of 119 with Droopy Dortwin.Provieded this takes the same recipe, saying that isn't quite accurate.

[dasva]

True but unless they make it super common the HQs still wont be that common

[Demonjustin]

Oh I know, I'm just saying the pet itself isn't necessarily a non-capping pet due to that fact, so the fact we can get more materials more quickly/easily should help aid in that supply all the same. Still, we've more issues than what this will fix of course especially when it comes to pet selection.

[dasva]

Especially since all it really does is introduce another pet that will most likely be fairly costly/rare which based on how strong it already is unless they bump it's stats and move lists some too along with it's higher level will be inferior to the boar and the bird. But yes our pet selection is horribad. Should really just do away with the whole cap thing for jugs. We already have a limiter in the form of ilvl weapon and relic gloves. And they clearly aren't capable of putting out enough pets with enough of a level range fast enough to give a half way decent selection. Heck even the good current 119 capable ones will be undercapped when they raise ilvl

[Railer]

So anyone try out the food yet or find out what it is called?

[Olor]

BG says this:


Shiramochi: aka Acc Pet Food
Player
Accuracy: 883->953
Attack: 935->935

Pet
Accuracy: 843->951
Attack: 925 ->925

Kusamochi: aka Att Pet Food
Player
Accuracy: 883->883
Attack 935->1007

Pet
Accuracy 843->843
Attack: 925->1038


recipes:
Shiramochi
Cooking Rank Adept:
Fire Crystal
1x Sticky Rice
1x Cornstarch
1x Distilled Water

Kusamochi
Cooking Rank Adept
Fire Crystal
1x Sticky Rice
1x Mugwort
1x Cornstarch
1x Distilled Water

[Donquichot]

On Difficult Ark Angel Valoredge automaton still got about 50% accuracy. This is with Divinator, pet:accuracy set and Shiromochi. While it is a start. This still is NOT enough to qualify us for any higher than difficult. We won with trouble but i had to rely on Canibal blade as weaponskill. We won with bst,pupx2,smnx2. Summoners are the main source of damage. Puppetmasters are needed because of te Strobe attachment. Without that Summoners get hate by just summoning. The Beastmaster is there so the puppetmasters have time to resummon automatons. If accuracy was higher on automatons and pets the fight would go alot faster and the need for the summoners would be less.

Biggest defect on automatons at this moment is their fragility. Bst pets and Automatons have very shitty defence and get hit like any other non ochain player. Bst pets can hold this out with their high hp, but us puppetmasters got almost no chance. The HP of the Automatons NEEDS to be ALOT higher or give us the same innate damage resistance as summoner pets. We get hit like every other player, but we dont have a white mage to cure our pets. This really needs to be adressed. Even with armor plate I and II we still get rocked.

[Railer]

Yea the food isn't going to cut it, I may come back to the game in June if there major adjustments to Beastmaster. Until then I guess I will just keep my 20$.

[WoW]

As expected, lol.

Food is not the sole answer for players (Whom are stronger than pets), hence it was premature to believe that some extra acc would solve anything; our problems are much deeper than one stat. Even if the food granted pretty decent hit-rate, bst jugs in particular do crap damage, so then what? Would it have been a start? No. A start means that pets are still an unfinished product thus need more adjustments, aka we would still be ineffective until the process is complete. We just need a update which address all of our issues; not just one stat.

[Demonjustin]

As expected, lol.

Food is not the sole answer for players (Whom are stronger than pets), hence it was premature to believe that some extra acc would solve anything; our problems are much deeper than one stat. Even if the food granted pretty decent hit-rate, bst jugs in particular do crap damage, so then what? Would it have been a start? No. A start means that pets are still an unfinished product thus need more adjustments, aka we would still be ineffective until the process is complete. We just need a update which address all of our issues; not just one stat.Good luck getting SE to ever implement a full job fix in a single update rather than doing it in multiple updates over the course of months.

[WoW]

Good luck getting SE to ever implement a full job fix in a single update rather than doing it in multiple updates over the course of months.

They do not have to; I will just hover around this thread grinning to myself^^

[Demonjustin]

They do not have to; I will just hover around this thread grinning to myself^^Well my point was more or less that no update will ever happen that fixes a job in 1 shot. We made progress, for the first time ever there's a food type that buffs not only the user, but their pet as well. While you may not see this as large or important, the fact pets can now hit a much higher hit rate on difficult targets means that if we do get stronger it'll mean something now, before they could've buffed pet DMG into obscene levels but the fact we couldn't hit a thing wouldn't have made a difference. You can argue either way little changes, but be that the case or not a change happened, and provided they continue to look into it there's a chance for a good outcome. Your original response after the update though seems more like a matter of saying "Ha, I told you Accuracy wouldn't do much." rather than a "Hey, we got an update, now that we can hit how about raising our damage?" but perhaps it's just me.

[Olor]

Yeah I am happy they at least began to address the issues we have. We also need to see a lot of gear that gives our pet stats that don't gimp the master (making us sacrifice stats to have stats on our pets) - I've seen a commitment for that - so I hope to see progress. Otherwise, overall they need to decide a vision for each job in a role and work to make us usable in that role. If it is heavy DD our output when master and pet are working needs to be similar to other heavy DDs. If it is support DD, our support needs to be actually meaningful. If it is ranged DD, stop making us weaker just because we have range. If it is support, don't punish us for using support skills, and make the support balanced and useful. If it is enfeebling - let our enfeebles make a difference. If we are tanks, give us hate tools and damage mitigation tools.

[WoW]

Well my point was more or less that no update will ever happen that fixes a job in 1 shot. We made progress, for the first time ever there's a food type that buffs not only the user, but their pet as well. While you may not see this as large or important, the fact pets can now hit a much higher hit rate on difficult targets means that if we do get stronger it'll mean something now, before they could've buffed pet DMG into obscene levels but the fact we couldn't hit a thing wouldn't have made a difference. You can argue either way little changes, but be that the case or not a change happened, and provided they continue to look into it there's a chance for a good outcome. Your original response after the update though seems more like a matter of saying "Ha, I told you Accuracy wouldn't do much." rather than a "Hey, we got an update, now that we can hit how about raising our damage?" but perhaps it's just me.

Actually, the food is pretty sub-par from what I am hearing and also; no job can be fixed in one-shot? Hmmm, is eleven years long enough for you? I hope you are enjoying the "progress" (baby steps), hopefully you get an invite when the job is finally fixed; whenever that is^^

I stated that this food will change nothing; as Donq alluded to, we still need more for pet jobs to become useful. Also, sure the food is progress, technically, however, Donq stated that his pet still had a sub-par hit-rate with superb gear. Sure it is progress, I mean, they can add 1% acc to all pets and that will equate to "progress," but is that enough? We can get technically all night long, but this progress does not get you party invites; otherwise this thread will die and ppl would be praising the food, have not seen one positive comment yet. If you are happy with the progress, then that's cool, however your pet is an unfinished product until this thread dies.

And yes, I did tell you guys so, and? I was right, so what?

I am a realist, I call it like I see it; sorry for not putting on a facade.

"The update was lovely" hows that?^^

You appear to feel some type of way because I am not happy with the update. Some were not happy with the ninja throwing announcement today, but i was, did I criticize them? Nah, different strokes, different folks man, it is not that serious.

Edit: Also, you can argue with me all you want to brah, but our pets still suck. Until this thread dies, you are contributing to my point; pets are an unfinished product.

[Demonjustin]

Actually, the food is pretty sub-par from what I am hearing and also; no job can be fixed in one-shot? Hmmm, is eleven years long enough for you? I hope you are enjoying the "progress" (baby steps), hopefully you get an invite when the job is finally fixed; whenever that is^^I wouldn't say it's sub-par. From what I gather the Accuracy food is as potent as Sushi is, it's just the same for your pet. While that means a lot in one way it means nothing in another, this food balances the difference between a DD eating food and a pet since now both will have food effects, that doesn't change the fact however that pets still have no BRD songs or rolls to aid them. Fighting AAs on difficult for instance a player is normally stacking either a nice bit of Accuracy gear or they're getting a song/roll to help them hit that Accuracy cap, pets have food but they don't have that option still. As for baby steps, there's a difference between steps when we're moving forward and when we're at a stand still. You can't count 11 years when the majority of the time pet jobs have been greatly ignored, we're seeing at least some intent on improvements finally.


I stated that this food will change nothing; as Donq alluded to, we still need more for pet jobs to become useful. Also, sure the food is progress, technically, however, Donq stated that his pet still had a sub-par hit-rate with superb gear. Sure it is progress, I mean, they can add 1% acc to all pets and that will equate to "progress," but is that enough? We can get technically all night long, but this progress does not get you party invites; otherwise this thread will die and ppl would be praising the food, have not seen one positive comment yet. If you are happy with the progress, then that's cool, however your pet is an unfinished product until this thread dies.I completely agree, it is unfinished. I wasn't saying that the food fixed all of our issues or anything of the sort, I was only saying that treating this as though it were nothing isn't really right or fair either. It helped, it's a step in the right direction to let us buff our pets in this way. If they did the same kinda thing with rolls and songs, letting our songs hit our pets and same with rolls, you'd see BST, PUP, and SMN getting massive boosts.


And yes, I did tell you guys so, and? I was right, so what?

I am a realist, I call it like I see it; sorry for not putting on a facade.You say you were right but right about what? You kept saying it wouldn't change anything from what I saw, but that's not true. Yesterday, I could go PUP with optimum gear and my Automaton would have a floored hit rate on Difficult, today I can go and it will actually hit the mob. Will it be the best DD ever or have a capped hit rate? No, but it's not nearly as bad as yesterday, which means in the end today's update did help and it did make progress.


You appear to feel some type of way because I am not happy with the update. Some were not happy with the ninja throwing announcement today, but i was, did I criticize them? Nah, different strokes, different folks man, it is not that serious.

Edit: Also, you can argue with me all you want to brah, but our pets still suck. Until this thread dies, you are contributing to my point; pets are an unfinished product.I only think you aren't happy with the update because you seem like you think it didn't do a thing, but it did, even if it's not a 100% fix it's something more than we had before and it's probably the single largest out of the way buff I can think about for pet jobs in quite some time. All the same I do agree they're unfinished, and I mean to contribute to that point, I just don't agree with the viewpoint of this update having done nothing or very little, rather I think it's a good sign they're showing more attention to broken jobs. As of late the team working on the game has been doing a lot of things differently than in the past such as making the game more accessible and adding so many things that are 'quality of life' that it's amazing by compare to the amount of rejection we got on the exact same ideas only a year or 2 ago. When I say I'm looking at this as a sign of change I don't mean that out of the last 11 years I think just finally out of no where this means something, I mean in general the game and it's direction has been changing, now they're talking about adding more pet gear and they did this pet food update, we've only 2 foods for now, the future can hold a ton more than that which we've just gotten. I'm personally giving it a bit of time, they've rejuvenated faith in me to a good extent, but I won't lie I could be easily looking too far into it and we could end up with hardly anything better than this. It's a matter of perspective I suppose, but in either case, the way I think you come across in your posts is that this meant nothing, and I quite frankly disagree to a large extent, that's all.

[Mitruya]

Hm. I'm not sure what to think of the food. There doesn't seem to be any available on my server yet, and I'm not sure what content besides solo that I will be able to use it on. (yay for being able to take down a reive faster? *shrugs*)
I guess with the new Mog Wardrobe, I have no excuse to not finish leveling my cooking skill now that I have the space! :p
It's a small step, as Demonjustin says. Maybe with the pet gear they've promised it will turn out to be a big boost. But like Olor says, we need gear that doesn't gimp the master. We all agree that pets need more damage and defense, especially automatons and wyverns.
DRGs have really got the short end of the stick, having to wait 20min to recall a pet that does hardly anything on endgame content.
But hey did you notice the new Pratik ring, for BST PUP and DRG? That's kind of nice.

[Olor]

I tried out the attack food, its hella expensive currently... there wasn't a very noticeable difference - pet still doing way less damage than me, but something is better than nothing. Pets need to receive buffs, not buffs that only affect pets (useless) but the same buffs other party members get. Food is a start, but it can't be the end.

[WoW]

I wouldn't say it's sub-par. From what I gather the Accuracy food is as potent as Sushi is, it's just the same for your pet. While that means a lot in one way it means nothing in another, this food balances the difference between a DD eating food and a pet since now both will have food effects, that doesn't change the fact however that pets still have no BRD songs or rolls to aid them. Fighting AAs on difficult for instance a player is normally stacking either a nice bit of Accuracy gear or they're getting a song/roll to help them hit that Accuracy cap, pets have food but they don't have that option still. As for baby steps, there's a difference between steps when we're moving forward and when we're at a stand still. You can't count 11 years when the majority of the time pet jobs have been greatly ignored, we're seeing at least some intent on improvements finally.

I completely agree, it is unfinished. I wasn't saying that the food fixed all of our issues or anything of the sort, I was only saying that treating this as though it were nothing isn't really right or fair either. It helped, it's a step in the right direction to let us buff our pets in this way. If they did the same kinda thing with rolls and songs, letting our songs hit our pets and same with rolls, you'd see BST, PUP, and SMN getting massive boosts.

You say you were right but right about what? You kept saying it wouldn't change anything from what I saw, but that's not true. Yesterday, I could go PUP with optimum gear and my Automaton would have a floored hit rate on Difficult, today I can go and it will actually hit the mob. Will it be the best DD ever or have a capped hit rate? No, but it's not nearly as bad as yesterday, which means in the end today's update did help and it did make progress.

I only think you aren't happy with the update because you seem like you think it didn't do a thing, but it did, even if it's not a 100% fix it's something more than we had before and it's probably the single largest out of the way buff I can think about for pet jobs in quite some time. All the same I do agree they're unfinished, and I mean to contribute to that point, I just don't agree with the viewpoint of this update having done nothing or very little, rather I think it's a good sign they're showing more attention to broken jobs. As of late the team working on the game has been doing a lot of things differently than in the past such as making the game more accessible and adding so many things that are 'quality of life' that it's amazing by compare to the amount of rejection we got on the exact same ideas only a year or 2 ago. When I say I'm looking at this as a sign of change I don't mean that out of the last 11 years I think just finally out of no where this means something, I mean in general the game and it's direction has been changing, now they're talking about adding more pet gear and they did this pet food update, we've only 2 foods for now, the future can hold a ton more than that which we've just gotten. I'm personally giving it a bit of time, they've rejuvenated faith in me to a good extent, but I won't lie I could be easily looking too far into it and we could end up with hardly anything better than this. It's a matter of perspective I suppose, but in either case, the way I think you come across in your posts is that this meant nothing, and I quite frankly disagree to a large extent, that's all.

Being able to hit the mob and a decent hit rate are two completely different scenarios. Question Justin, does the food the food allow you to hit-comfortably? Is your pet effective? You keep mentioning progress; meanwhile pld, mnk, sam, sch, bard, cor, and rng are progressing through the game while you wait for progress. You appear to like the progress, correct? It is something right? A start; well then, there is nothing for you to complain about because you are completely happy/understand the drawn out process as opposed to an single update. It only takes them a single update to nerf a job, thus it should only take them a single update to vastly improved their efficacy. It only takes them a single update to release expansion content with new jobs; but if you are happy with the process good for you; should not see any complaints on your part, because you completely understand the process and the pet food allows you to hit difficult content.

Now me? I am unhappy with the process thus I will complain. I expect every job to be tweaked during XI's life-time, however, when have bst ever been effective in end-game/difficult content? Ill say it has been XI years. The draw backs of a long process are unusable jobs for an extended period of time; you are fine with this I guess "Shrugs"

[Jinzha]

Is the new pet food affecting ranged accuracy and ranged attack as well for automatons?

[WoW]

Is the new pet food affecting ranged accuracy and ranged attack as well for automatons?

According to ffxiah, yes.

[WoW]

On a brighter note; the new job point category for bst could be pretty neat; A total of +20% ready move dmg during unleash iirc. I use this ability often, nice addition.

[Rwolf]

I do agree that the dev team should know better that amount of accuracy and attack wouldn't have done much. When Delve came out and they added Alternator, I thought they were finally starting to understand just how much in strides pet jobs need. While they are making small improvements, with some haste there, and accuracy/attack there. They really need to speed it up. I feel like they are being dramatically overly cautious on pets in this fear that pet jobs will become too overpowered. While that fear is legitimate, I just don't see how hard it is to have the battle team actually sit down on a test server and parse data from different damage dealers against pets in difficult to very difficult content and adjust accordingly.

I don't think anyone is asking for perfect in one update, but to have several pet related updates (adding attributes adjusted from main weapon/ammo, increasing acc/atk/etc, pet haste on more equipment, master/pet food) and still have such a large margin to cover for pet jobs to compare to other damage dealers in difficult content is disheartening. I say that as constructive criticism and not to be condescending.

[Malithar]

We can get technically all night long, but this progress does not get you party invites; otherwise this thread will die and ppl would be praising the food, have not seen one positive comment yet.

The bolded is really a big issue with the outlook pet job obsessed players have. I've got pet jobs, have plenty of friend's with pet jobs. They have their uses, and when they're useful, it's fun. The problem with that outlook that "SE hasn't made us good enough to party!" is really a lack of willingness of the player base. Why bring a Bst when they can bring a DD that's more straight to the point, toss on a 119 weapon, have solid gear, and the JA/JTs take care of the rest. Put someone who's capable of pushing a WS macro every few seconds behind the keyboard and you've got a grade B+ at least DD.

I'm not going to say there's nothing wrong with pet jobs, they have their issues. But unless SE buffs you to the point that you're stronger than other DD jobs, you won't be taken to content. PUGs as a whole operate, generally, off "what setup can we do that has the best chance of success?" We've all seen it, when a PUG is 5/6 looking for that one certain job, maybe it's a Rng, Pld, Brd, Whm, etc. One of the "needed" jobs. What about when it's a melee DD? There's a reason they're not looking for a job they know nothing about, that takes more gear/skill to make work, and that's risk. Only way to make that risk worth taking is to make pet jobs stronger than other jobs that bring less risk. And if that happens, what is the point to those jobs? At least pet jobs have a solo/too dangerous for players niche that works to a degree.

And for what it's worth, a properly geared and played Bst, Pup, or Smn does fine in D content, I can't comment on VD. Do they do fine compared to a top end job? No, but they do enough to pull their own weight, and unless the majority of your group is riding along for tag alongs, that's all that needed.

Pretty sure Demon's comment was fairly positive as well, pet jobs have been getting some love lately.

[WoW]

The bolded is really a big issue with the outlook pet job obsessed players have. I've got pet jobs, have plenty of friend's with pet jobs. They have their uses, and when they're useful, it's fun. The problem with that outlook that "SE hasn't made us good enough to party!" is really a lack of willingness of the player base. Why bring a Bst when they can bring a DD that's more straight to the point, toss on a 119 weapon, have solid gear, and the JA/JTs take care of the rest. Put someone who's capable of pushing a WS macro every few seconds behind the keyboard and you've got a grade B+ at least DD.

I'm not going to say there's nothing wrong with pet jobs, they have their issues. But unless SE buffs you to the point that you're stronger than other DD jobs, you won't be taken to content. PUGs as a whole operate, generally, off "what setup can we do that has the best chance of success?" We've all seen it, when a PUG is 5/6 looking for that one certain job, maybe it's a Rng, Pld, Brd, Whm, etc. One of the "needed" jobs. What about when it's a melee DD? There's a reason they're not looking for a job they know nothing about, that takes more gear/skill to make work, and that's risk. Only way to make that risk worth taking is to make pet jobs stronger than other jobs that bring less risk. And if that happens, what is the point to those jobs? At least pet jobs have a solo/too dangerous for players niche that works to a degree.

And for what it's worth, a properly geared and played Bst, Pup, or Smn does fine in D content, I can't comment on VD. Do they do fine compared to a top end job? No, but they do enough to pull their own weight, and unless the majority of your group is riding along for tag alongs, that's all that needed.

Pretty sure Demon's comment was fairly positive as well, pet jobs have been getting some love lately.

Lets see, you clearly stated that it is a lack of willingness of the player base, however, you also stated that bst do not compare to "high end jobs' this is the point. Why would anyone invite a lesser dd unless they want a challange. You and Justin are arguing just to argue; even SE acknowledge that this situation needs/will be monitored, hence something is wrong. So the developers noted that this was a issue, the pet community view it as an issue, but you and Justin do not; hmmm.

Devil's advocate: A person who advocates an opposing or unpopular view, often for the sake of argument.

[WoW]

I do agree that the dev team should know better that amount of accuracy and attack wouldn't have done much. When Delve came out and they added Alternator, I thought they were finally starting to understand just how much in strides pet jobs need. While they are making small improvements, with some haste there, and accuracy/attack there. They really need to speed it up. I feel like they are being dramatically overly cautious on pets in this fear that pet jobs will become too overpowered. While that fear is legitimate, I just don't see how hard it is to have the battle team actually sit down on a test server and parse data from different damage dealers against pets in difficult to very difficult content and adjust accordingly.

I don't think anyone is asking for perfect in one update, but to have several pet related updates (adding attributes adjusted from main weapon/ammo, increasing acc/atk/etc, pet haste on more equipment, master/pet food) and still have such a large margin to cover for pet jobs to compare to other damage dealers in difficult content is disheartening. I say that as constructive criticism and not to be condescending.

^^Boom; could not have said it better myself; speed it up please.

Seriously, what is a perfect update? Will SE not adjust jobs in the future anyway? All we are asking for is a usable job; but the devil's advocates will debate this to the ends of the earth for the heck of it.

[Damane]

I do agree that the dev team should know better that amount of accuracy and attack wouldn't have done much. When Delve came out and they added Alternator, I thought they were finally starting to understand just how much in strides pet jobs need. While they are making small improvements, with some haste there, and accuracy/attack there. They really need to speed it up. I feel like they are being dramatically overly cautious on pets in this fear that pet jobs will become too overpowered. While that fear is legitimate, I just don't see how hard it is to have the battle team actually sit down on a test server and parse data from different damage dealers against pets in difficult to very difficult content and adjust accordingly.

I don't think anyone is asking for perfect in one update, but to have several pet related updates (adding attributes adjusted from main weapon/ammo, increasing acc/atk/etc, pet haste on more equipment, master/pet food) and still have such a large margin to cover for pet jobs to compare to other damage dealers in difficult content is disheartening. I say that as constructive criticism and not to be condescending.

they cant collect data from a game, when they dont understand how the players use the game mechanics/play this game. there are some examples how they screwed/skewed things up:
- insane m.eva and magic dmg taken on hardmode mission battles D+
- insane m.eva on lvl 126 mobs in the woh gates area
- no afterthought to magic based WS damage, when ilvl base weapons + were released
- no afterthought on how to base mob damage dealt around player HP (race jobs discrepancy etc) (high to you, we will only use monk because it has such a large HP Pool..., luckily this has easened a bit)
- enfeebling magic
- pet damage taken against any realy hard content
- the neverending enmity issue
etc.
the list goes on

They do know how their game works, but sometimes you just hold your head and think what the idea was behind some stuff... i mean the "fixed" enmity (on adoulin release) just to release 4 weeks later ilvl 110/119 weapon to put it right back to the state it was lol. Sometimes you just ask yourself whats the point behind some stuff.

[Railer]

I don't understand with the food why not go ahead and give pet acc. and attack and give master choice of the acc bonus or attack depending on food.

[Olor]

I don't understand with the food why not go ahead and give pet acc. and attack and give master choice of the acc bonus or attack depending on food.

Because a pet that could hit, but not like a wet paper bag would be OVERPOWERED. I mean, if our pets did even half the damage of a MNK no one would ever want a monk again, despite the fact that MNK is about a billion times better, can be cured (not on timer), buffed, pop formless strikes etc etc.

It's the same old nonsense. Honestly some food is better than nothing, but considering players get 3 songs, maybe a couple rolls, protect, shell, as many cures as whm can pump out, haste on top of haste, cure skin, momentum bonuses (why don't pets get these) etc. - this is a pitiful drop in the bucket. Making us choose between being able to hit anything at all or being able to hit anything for an amount that is worthwhile is crummy.

They just need to let pets get buffs. Until then BST (speaking of my own job, but other jobs as well) is screwed forever because half of our damage potential is unbuffable, in max haste situations with massive debilitating AOEs and no way to get timely cures.

DEAR SE: WHY DO YOU HATE PET JOBS? WHAT IS SO SCARY ABOUT LETTING US BE EQUAL TO OTHER DDs?

No other MMO treats pet jobs like a red-headed step child that can't be trusted not to eat their siblings for breakfast. Just fix the jobs already, getting really annoyed. Especially since now everyone can solo almost everything with their trust army - pet jobs don't even have a crappy little itty bitty pitiful niche anymore.

[Olor]

BUMP

I'd like to point out my BST is still not welcome in modern content... so when we getting a real boost for pet jobs? The food didn't cut it.

[WoW]

^^I only use bst to farm in Salvage; quit that job recently. I realized that our issues may be much deeper than food, rather, the actual mechanics may be flawed. I mentioned this in the bst thread, but the XIV producer doubts they will release a wyvern pet for dragoons due to the sacrifice in damage. Perhaps they have learned from past mistakes. Realistically, how can a dd whom is weaker than non-pet dd individually shine on harder content? They will always be at a disadvantage; not even going to mention the pet whom is weaker than the master.

If bst never rises, XI will still get subs; not really going to affect their profits. SE made an error on the pet/master dd jobs, fine, lets learn from our mistakes and never release another one. Just my opinion/2 cents.

[Leonardus]

Really WoW? I like that attitude. It can't be fixed, so let's just give up?

I know the food wasn't super amazing, but it did help, and it's a start, I will give SE that. In the meantime, stop telling yourself you're completely useless- And if it's not you, but your "friends" saying that... Find new friends.

I also take offense to the claim that Dortwin is a bad pet. Quite the opposite, really. Have you tried Unleash > Whirl Claws on hordes of weak enemies, or Foot Kick in say, Morimar Delve? I've learned to respect this rabbit in recent days and grab up Verboshrooms as they appear.

[WoW]

Really WoW? I like that attitude. It can't be fixed, so let's just give up?

I know the food wasn't super amazing, but it did help, and it's a start, I will give SE that. In the meantime, stop telling yourself you're completely useless- And if it's not you, but your "friends" saying that... Find new friends.

I also take offense to the claim that Dortwin is a bad pet. Quite the opposite, really. Have you tried Unleash > Whirl Claws on hordes of weak enemies, or Foot Kick in say, Morimar Delve? I've learned to respect this rabbit in recent days and grab up Verboshrooms as they appear.

It is not my game, if it was, I would have faith in myself to correct things, but 11 years of depending on someone else gets tiring.

I will admit, bst pets are awesome on weaker content; not sure droopy can do much on lvl 128 content, never tried it, could be wrong, but I doubt it.

Edit: I will play bst main when they release decent dd pets; how do you release a vanity frog over a more serviceable aquan, orobon? Or another mandy over a sabotender? A razz (Barreling smash was most likely gonna be removed, so why bother) over a opo or sheep esque pet with zerk? A chapuli over a scorpion? Did they really believe a chapuli would out dd a scorpion? or any of the aforementioned pets for that matter? Things like this that are so obvious causes me to lose faith in bst's future.

[Vold]

The uphill battle for at least BST and PUP is that if you make them as useful as a war and mnk(their closest equals, I guess)then that would inevitably mean their pets would steamroll over certain kinds of content, so much so you could nearly or completely go AFK and come back to a win and drops. You can't just boost the masters to war/mnk levels because then everyone would just use BST/PUP because, "same as war/mnk but better with pets!" So you gotta have that difference in character DPS so the pets can even things up....except on hard content.

THEN, you can't just increase pet strength to withstand high level content because they would just steamroll low level content to the point that you just AFK and come back to free stuff. It's already the case on many old school encounters.

So, what in the eff do we do? Give us bit by bit over the years to make this fact of FFXI life easier, that's what. BST was never going to see justice to begin with because SE is content with letting pet jobs be the odd men out. But that doesn't mean it's too late to fix things with our skeleton ffxi crew. For starters, heck it might even be the case already and hasn't mattered for jack, I have been gone awhile and not entirely in the know of current BST adoulin areas, but they could start fixing BST and PUP by giving them incredibly strong pets for specific areas only where they are required, i.e. can only be summoned in blank zone or during blank event. The fears of overpoweredawesomeness are put to rest, pet jobs are equals with other DD, pets can be worth a damn and not be utterly destroyed in a blink of an eye just because they need to stay weak for fafnir/byakko/odin/whatever 2006-2011ish encounters, and people just might go, "ya know, BST/PUP ain't so effing bad anymore, sure we'll take you with us"

I don't see any other way this is going down. It's either that, or continue to give us bit by bit, year after year, to make up for getting the shaft. Because you know SE isn't about to make it a possibility where a BST can engage a NM(that "matters") and afk and come back later to new loot. It's just not going to happen.

[Alhanelem]

18 pages (@ 20 posts/page) and still not much of a result =\

I still don't understand why they can't make pets work like in any other MMO in existence and let them be affected by everything/almost everything instead of needing dedicated special effects just for them. It creates the very obvious problem, which we've run into, where the pet's power does not grow on the same scaling rate as the player himself (Even on SMN, where pre-audolin shattersoul was pushing blood pact damage in some circumstances...) therefore causing the pet jobs to decrease in power as the power of gear and effects rise.

In FFXIV, summoner's pets are affected by every buff under the sun (except protect for some reason), can be cured by anyone, take 10% damage from most AoE effects, and there is no outpouring of QQ of pets being OP. The damage of pet and master was carefully balanced and does not get out of line as stats increase, as the pet's stats are based on the master's.

It's simple, it's clean, it works. (That being said, FFXI's smn has much more of a coolness factor due to a currently greater variety of pets and their appearance, but design wise are more flawed)

It really makes me wonder if at any point in the game's development that the devs actually went and measured master+pet's DPS for all pet jobs and compared that to the other jobs. That's all it takes to see the problem. Being able to solo effectively doesn't mean that pet jobs should be less effective in endgame content than other jobs.

As far as the food: While it's a nice thing, there shouldn't be special food to buff the pets. All pets should simply gain whatever the master gains from their meal.

[Lithera]

Well all buffs but proshell and echo. Sorry had to nitpick lol. I wouldn't care if pet jobs could face roll on older content. It's old and at the rate they are going with allowing us to use trusts on this or that event everyone else will be able to go and do the same. Bringing out your pet in the hardest content shouldn't feel like you're bringing a lv 30 to endgame content.

[Mitruya]

So many likes for all the above posts.
I'm not seeing the new foods much on the AH, in fact I haven't been able to get my hands on the att food at all. I haven't had a reason really to even try out the acc food, afraid to waste the few stacks I have on lolsolo content. And skilling up crafting is just damn boring.
I've struggled to improve my COR for events, all the while wishing that I could stomp things on PUP or DRG instead.
Valefor's population keeps dropping. Shouts only want RNG PLD WHM BRD. I don't feel motivated to collect sparks or reforge armor for jobs that aren't used for anything. Every month I contemplate quitting out of boredom and frustration. Please SE, give us some job balance to revitalize the game.

[Olor]

yeah for how cheap the ingredients are, crafters are really gouging on the attack food as far as I can tell. I bought 1 NQ peice and it cost 100,000. Maybe it's improved (haven't had time to play for a few days) but it was really demoralizing to see no one even crafting the food. Seriously, as a BST I am really tired of a being a cash cow for cooks. Would be nice to get an upgrade to our job that doesn't involve me needing to farm more gil so I can do things worse on my favourite job.

[WoW]

18 pages (@ 20 posts/page) and still not much of a result =\

I still don't understand why they can't make pets work like in any other MMO in existence and let them be affected by everything/almost everything instead of needing dedicated special effects just for them. It creates the very obvious problem, which we've run into, where the pet's power does not grow on the same scaling rate as the player himself (Even on SMN, where pre-audolin shattersoul was pushing blood pact damage in some circumstances...) therefore causing the pet jobs to decrease in power as the power of gear and effects rise.

In FFXIV, summoner's pets are affected by every buff under the sun (except protect for some reason), can be cured by anyone, take 10% damage from most AoE effects, and there is no outpouring of QQ of pets being OP. The damage of pet and master was carefully balanced and does not get out of line as stats increase, as the pet's stats are based on the master's.

It's simple, it's clean, it works. (That being said, FFXI's smn has much more of a coolness factor due to a currently greater variety of pets and their appearance, but design wise are more flawed)

It really makes me wonder if at any point in the game's development that the devs actually went and measured master+pet's DPS for all pet jobs and compared that to the other jobs. That's all it takes to see the problem. Being able to solo effectively doesn't mean that pet jobs should be less effective in endgame content than other jobs.

As far as the food: While it's a nice thing, there shouldn't be special food to buff the pets. All pets should simply gain whatever the master gains from their meal.

There is 70 pages worth of smn rage compared to our 35; granted not everyone felt the same way, but nonetheless, there was plenty rage about XIV smn improvement. Never played smn in XIV, but from the comments, the majority are disappointed in it. Perhaps it is just a SE thing? "Shrugs"

[Olor]

The only thing I could really see wrong with FFXIV's arcanist/summoner is all the summons other than carby are hideous... well I never saw the fairy before I quit but, the dwarf ifrit looks stupid.

[Lithera]

Selene n eos are friggin cute. Except when they agro stuff and go loopy and wander of to who knows where. Anywho...

[WoW]

The only thing I could really see wrong with FFXIV's arcanist/summoner is all the summons other than carby are hideous... well I never saw the fairy before I quit but, the dwarf ifrit looks stupid.

Word, lol.

[Leonardus]

yeah for how cheap the ingredients are, crafters are really gouging on the attack food as far as I can tell. I bought 1 NQ peice and it cost 100,000. Maybe it's improved (haven't had time to play for a few days) but it was really demoralizing to see no one even crafting the food. Seriously, as a BST I am really tired of a being a cash cow for cooks. Would be nice to get an upgrade to our job that doesn't involve me needing to farm more gil so I can do things worse on my favourite job.

The acc food is really cheap to make. It carries the minor annoyance of having to go to the Tenshodo to buy the unstackable sticky rice, but that's not really a problem.

The attack food...is a problem. It requires mugwort, which as far as I know, you cannot buy anywhere. That would explain the price/availability.

Both give you some HP, which is a nice bonus.

[Alhanelem]

but from the comments, the majority are disappointed in it.I am specifically referring to mechanically how pets function- e.g. they behave like any other player controllable target, can be buffed and cured like any player, your stats decide their stats, etc.

Personally I enjoy summoner in XIV, most of the people I know who don't like it just hate on the fact that we aren't calling downsized verisons of the primals (This was done because Yoshida felt that summoning an exact clone of the actual primals, who are god-tier beings even more so than the avatars in XI and are entirely against the player and the non-beast races, would "cheapen" their role and compromise the game lore.), and instead call unique pets based on their essence. The main gameplay gripe is probably that we only have 3 summons and only one sees regular use (hint: it's the same one that is/was most used in XI for the longest time); and each summon only has 4 abilities, while they generally have more in XI.

Ignore the gripes, and you'll realize that Summoner is the most powerful ranged attacker on a single target (BLM has far better AoE though), and competes well with the melee attackers as well (MNK is stronger but requires more work to achieve that)

TL;DR I don't know anyone who doesn't like XIV's summoner for any reason that doesn't have something to do with comparing to XI. A good chunk of those 70 pages were about summons not being big enough and not looking like the primals. Both of which are cosmetic issues, not gameplay issues.

[WoW]

I am specifically referring to mechanically how pets function- e.g. they behave like any other player controllable target, can be buffed and cured like any player, your stats decide their stats, etc.

Personally I enjoy summoner in XIV, most of the people I know who don't like it just hate on the fact that we aren't calling downsized verisons of the primals (This was done because Yoshida felt that summoning an exact clone of the actual primals, who are god-tier beings even more so than the avatars in XI and are entirely against the player and the non-beast races, would "cheapen" their role and compromise the game lore.), and instead call unique pets based on their essence. The main gameplay gripe is probably that we only have 3 summons and only one sees regular use (hint: it's the same one that is/was most used in XI for the longest time); and each summon only has 4 abilities, while they generally have more in XI.

Ignore the gripes, and you'll realize that Summoner is the most powerful ranged attacker on a single target (BLM has far better AoE though), and competes well with the melee attackers as well (MNK is stronger but requires more work to achieve that)

TL;DR I don't know anyone who doesn't like XIV's summoner for any reason that doesn't have something to do with comparing to XI. A good chunk of those 70 pages were about summons not being big enough and not looking like the primals. Both of which are cosmetic issues, not gameplay issues.

Well, 133 ppl felt that smn's mechanics were disappointing; granted if it is a serviceable job if played properly (I am no smn). However, 133 ppl are disappointed in the overall concept of smn; not sure it is only an aesthetic aspect. Some felt it was fine, while others despised it. Some in this thread feel that bst is fine; "Shrugs"

[WoW]

I just want to say something else (Perhaps a friendly bump if nothing else), ppl appear to give offended by my laughter and disdain for bst; I do not understand why, my laughter is directed at the job and the actual development of the job. When you sit back and examine bst, there are some flawed aspects right off the bat.

Pet armor/barding- There is no way an ordinary/naked pet can keep up on harder content. Pet armor should have been implemented right off the bat. Pet's are their own entities, hence should have their own armor as opposed to sharing armor with the master (Hence why their defense and survivability are so poor. Try going into delve naked). Barding would give the pet a tremendous boost, offensively and defensively.

Jug level cap: There is no way to reverse this, there is already an merit category for it, hence would require quite a bit of retooling.

Jug selection: SE gives us crappy jugs, end of story; not to mention the mysterious removal of beneficial jug abilities.

Their are no abilities to enhance our pet: the ones we have are sub-par and do not address our pet's accuracy issues.

If bst is ever released in XIV, I hope they learned form XI's mistakes. Our best bet atm is for SE to announce bst at E3 (For XIV); I just do not see them fixing a 12 year old rarely used job on a 12 year old dying game; that ship has sailed imo.

[Tennotsukai]

I'd love to see some bst pet buff ja's. If anything like ffxiv has for smn, I believe it would be rather hand. Of course, I would like to see smn, pup, and even drg's wyvern receive something similar. All pet jobs are suffering.

[Mitruya]

I'd be interested in some pet buff JAs if they're not going to extend AoE party buffs to them. But more JAs means more delay ... and PUP really suffers from that problem already. So hopefully it would be a long-lasting buff.

[Olor]

I'd just rather pets benefit from buffs we already have. They should at least be hit with AOE buffs and dancer buffs.

[WoW]

^^Even if they did, the pets would still be weak, hence why individuals were asking for a sizable amount of attack and accuracy from food; like 200ish/300ish.

Imo; a pet with songs, protect, and rolls would not take bst over the top nor give them invites. Jugs, in particular do not scale like players do. Even in abyssea with full on attack buffs on incredibly weak prey bst is not impressive. I seriously doubt pet songs or rolls would solve our issues; it is much deeper, mechanics imo. Monsters have weak special abilities in general; unless they are NM moves. These normal run of the mill pets will never shine on lvl128 content. Pets are naked, normal run of the mill monsters trying to go up against bosses whom challenge REM players; I don't see how this will ever work.

Monstrosity is what bst should have been as it pertains to instincts and overall power of the pets. ppl what to make jokes about how I may play too much monstrosity, but the truth is, if they ever let monsters do outside content other than monstrosity, you can slowly, but surely kiss your bst goodbye. Some in this thread advocate such a thing with monstrosity as do I http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/42376-when-is-next-Monstrosity-update.
These are the only events I do bst on, but it would be much more enjoyable to do it on monstrosity.

I say good riddance.

[Olor]

^^Even if they did, the pets would still be weak, hence why individuals were asking for a sizable amount of attack and accuracy from food; like 200ish/300ish.

Imo; a pet with songs, protect, and rolls would not take bst over the top nor give them invites. Jugs, in particular do not scale like players do. Even in abyssea with full on attack buffs on incredibly weak prey bst is not impressive. I seriously doubt pet songs or rolls would solve our issues; it is much deeper, mechanics imo. Monsters have weak special abilities in general; unless they are NM moves. These normal run of the mill pets will never shine on lvl128 content. Pets are naked, normal run of the mill monsters trying to go up against bosses whom challenge REM players; I don't see how this will ever work.


I don't think buffs would "solve our issues" but they would make a huge difference. Our pets don't get full bard haste in abyssea so it's not an adequate comparason - the reason the playerbase worries less about getting attack buffs like minuets and more about haste is because haste does more to boost damage than any other buff. If we could get capped gear haste on us and our pets as well as have our pets benefit from bard songs, rdm haste w/e, we'd at least be somewhat competitive with other DDs.

Allowing us to get buffs also helps with the whole issue of SE being afraid we'd just steamroll everything solo. Allowing us to get buffs would not increase our solo strength significantly (though it would make /whm more competitive for soloing perhaps) but it would make us more valuable to groups.

[Louispv]

Easy fix for BST in 3 steps

A) make all jugs uncapped, period. Higher level jugs are already stronger than lower level ones, that's more than enough incentive to sue the higher ones.

B) Change Beast affinity to do the same thing as Optimization/Fine tuning. Or anything else for that matter, remove it entirely for all I care.

C) Make Beast Healer do the same thing as Empathy.

Pets get the same buffs as the players and are useful, but no code has to be changed to let them be targetable. You have every monster family available for either buffs via killer instinct, or enfeebles via specific pet ws's. Crafting isn't entirely dead, since the 95% of jugs that are currently utter crap since they are capped at 114 or below become usable again.

DRG and SMN work perfectly already, so no need to change them. With this 15 minutes of work, BST is useful again. PUP is still useless in Very Difficult content, but they were already good up until difficult, since they can give their pets soul voice level buffs already, and benefit from the ridiculous MNK buffs themselves. (242 H2H skill is a 30% larger buff than 242 any other skill because it increases base damage as well. Tinhaspa for PUP are a 400 base damage weapon with the delay of a single axe, for instance.) But you can futz around with PUP separately.

[WoW]

Interesting points Louis; I am no pup, hence I had no clue what those abilities did; you may be on to something. Pup has some pretty neat merits; as a bst, I envy them. Optimization looks lovely^^

Personally, I am Interested in the next batch of jugs; Honestly, how hard can it be to implement a jug that is currently in-game as a pet? I still believe that the pet selection is a often overlooked/neglected aspect when discussing bst.

Not sure if you guys/gals remember this, however, below is a list of jugs that were part of a player vote poll, hence could be released as jugs.

• Chloris (Mandragora) X
• Colibri (Interesting)
• Orapodium (Mandragora) X
• Hippogryph X
• Chigoe (Vanity pet perhaps? More interesting then another frog imo)
• Karkinos
• Scolopendrid
• Toad X
• Red crab X
• Orobon (Do not want; gnash will most likely be removed due to the nature of the ability)
• Hecteyes (These casted magic at a distance iirc)
• Pachypodium X
• Scorpion (Come on now SE; these things have been in-game since XI's release, lol)
• Crawler (Preferably a eruca imo; could be a solid tank)
• Funguar X
• Rafflesia (Could be decent, however, the majority of its' moves appear to be debuffs)
• Slime (Tank pet; nice dd moves)
• Karakul (Remember rage > Lamp chop?)^^
• Black antlion X
• Hanuman (Part of the story line as Kaiichi mentioned in the beast forums; makes sense to have one, great dds)
• Black beetle X
• Ruszor (Pretty decent pet, could possibly tank)

Notice I put an X next to the monsters we currently have in-game. We do not need more of the same monsters but in different colors (Considering how sub-par the repeats are); we are not collecting hot wheels or Air-Jordans. Imo, SE should refer to this list as it pertains to our next few batches of jug pets. Any of these jugs (With their beneficial moves intact) will be a solid combo.

Looking back at the original thread, I found the text below the jug poll quite interesting; notably the realistic possibility of larger monsters being implemented as jugs (Can you say Wivre or Ram?) as well as a behemoth pet (Special type of pet). Ill leave the link below so bst can read it for themselves if they would like. It is quite old, but still, what happened to those ideas? They were solid imo.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/1697-What-new-Jug-Pets-would-you-like-to-see-91-99?p=191859&viewfull=1#post191859

[Rubeus]

I like the last part of that post by Camate. "This would be on par with revamping how Call Beast works, so... no."
fast forward to lvl 119 and monstrosity: "We added a 'dont make the screen rumble' option for playing as large monsters."
So... about that call beast? "... that's a big no, chief."
And in the end, we didn't even get anything. /surprisedface

[Leonardus]

Easy fix for BST in 3 steps

A) make all jugs uncapped, period. Higher level jugs are already stronger than lower level ones, that's more than enough incentive to sue the higher ones.

B) Change Beast affinity to do the same thing as Optimization/Fine tuning. Or anything else for that matter, remove it entirely for all I care.

C) Make Beast Healer do the same thing as Empathy.


One can dream, right?...

[SNK]

Explain how in any content level 119 or higher BST is able to perform well at all. I've seen no BST do well in Skirmish, Delve, or even really AAs, let alone the new Delve monsters who are getting higher. To say BST is fine is to look only at Dynamis and other low level content and judge it on that basis alone.

I can't tell if you were being serious about Skirmish, It's easy to do on BST. Delve however I'm not retarded enough to bother with that on BST since it's just easier to do on MNK COR or BRD. AAs I've done on BST multiple times outside of the Elvaan in groups.

The jug pets are fine like I said & now that we even have food which buff the pet's accuracy and attack even more, it's easier then ever.



I appreciate this as a beginning Camate, but I hope the development team remembers that BST currently is probably the MOST expensive job to play in the game.

Not even close to being the most exspensive in the game. Ranger alone is a job where you shoot money to do damage.

[Mitruya]

DRG and SMN work perfectly already, so no need to change them. With this 15 minutes of work, BST is useful again. PUP is still useless in Very Difficult content, but they were already good up until difficult, since they can give their pets soul voice level buffs already, and benefit from the ridiculous MNK buffs themselves. (242 H2H skill is a 30% larger buff than 242 any other skill because it increases base damage as well. Tinhaspa for PUP are a 400 base damage weapon with the delay of a single axe, for instance.) But you can futz around with PUP separately.

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here for repeating that:
- PUP does not get invites for any level of content, regardless of gear. Maybe that varies by server though.
- DRG is not perfect either. 20 min recast on Call Wyvern is outdated as hell right now, compared to how quickly a BST, PUP, or SMN can call a new pet. Empathy/Spirit Link plus Steady Wing is not enough to keep wyvern alive in content. And this is if I can even get in as DRG at all.
We've repeated this endlessly. Not many battlefields allow for a bunch of close-quarter DDs to be invited, much less have room for pets who die and can't hit for sh*t.
I use COR to get gear for other jobs, which in turn don't get to see any action so it seems pointless. Why does SE give us things like Upukirex and Divinator yet effectively lock pet jobs out of endgame? I don't need those OP things for Dynamis and reives.

[WoW]

I can't tell if you were being serious about Skirmish, It's easy to do on BST. Delve however I'm not retarded enough to bother with that on BST since it's just easier to do on MNK COR or BRD. AAs I've done on BST multiple times outside of the Elvaan in groups.

The jug pets are fine like I said & now that we even have food which buff the pet's accuracy and attack even more, it's easier then ever.




Not even close to being the most exspensive in the game. Ranger alone is a job where you shoot money to do damage.

I may have been wrong about the food; that combined with the plethora of pet acc gear for pet should be enough to hit decently on harder content (Just speculating and going by comments from other players).

I was the biggest detractor pertaining to bst buffs and food, however, I really sat down and pondered this issue. On weaker mobs, pets are not world beaters by any means, usually, endgame involves difficult mobs which our current pets struggle on.

I am not going to tell you that your experiences were wrong (Who am I to say that? Really...), considering the amount of +acc jugs receive from gear. Also, this thread shows that some individuals did have success with the new food http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/43131/shiromochi-and-kusamochi-effects/

Bst also has a pretty nasty merit ws. However, I still feel that jug pets are merely naked mobs whom are not that special (Hence does not warrant an invite over a mnk, sam, war, or rng). However, I am going to be positive for once, imo, one thing that hinders bst dd wise is poor jug selection, but that is not gonna happen hence bst will stay were it is, second class job. I still believe the overall concept of the jug is flawed, but bst would be a bandwagon job if they added a scorpion, opo, wivre, or a ram jug (With all of there moves intact). Yea, I said it, bst a bandwagon job.

The key to taking bst to the next level is a careful implementation of jugs. It appears that the devs just throw any pet out there without considering what bst really is, a damage dealer. SE should always release the monsters with the most dd potential; if our next batch contains more of the same second tier dd pets, expect more of the same....

I know you guys/gals are probably tired of me repeating this, but this is indeed a big problem; and if they finally release a dd pet, you guys/gals will see a dramatic difference. That is all I have to say really; I am tired of repeated the same stuff as you are hearing it. Gonna leave this thread until they release a true dd pet, no use repeating the same crap over and over.

[Leonardus]

The key to taking bst to the next level is a careful implementation of jugs. It appears that the devs just throw any pet out there without considering what bst really is, a damage dealer. SE should always release the monsters with the most dd potential; if our next batch contains more of the same second tier dd pets, expect more of the same....

BST is more of a hybrid DD/Tank, WoW. I personally love this aspect of the job, with certain jugs being more offensive or defensive. I hope they continue to offer both types.

We could use an Amorph pet for Killer Instinct. Fargann was nice, but you know, stuck at Lv.114, the usual.

[WoW]

BST is more of a hybrid DD/Tank, WoW. I personally love this aspect of the job, with certain jugs being more offensive or defensive. I hope they continue to offer both types.

We could use an Amorph pet for Killer Instinct. Fargann was nice, but you know, stuck at Lv.114, the usual.

Idk....there were ppl complaining about pet survivability in this thread (Which is warranted on harder content, doubt a pet can tank Wopket efficiently).

As far as them offering both offensive and defensive jugs; idk...do we have any offensive jugs? None of our current jugs are offensive nor defensive because their damage is lackluster with acc food (Due to their ready moves and lack of attack; a scorpion with sharp strike or sheep/ram with rage would solve this) and one of the main gripes in this thread is pet survivability (All bst WKR/Delve axes should have -DT on them, but non of our pets are particularly durable; unless you are strictly fighting slashing mobs). Higher tier bosses don't care about Ibuki's slashing resistance; most mobs do special-ish attacks in SoA areas.

Bst will never replace nin, pld, or even run as a tank, hence should stick to being a dd. Ppl do not invite us to tank, plds and nins have better tools for it. I doubt our pets can hold hate off a REM dd. I think the hybrid niche is the problem, we can do multiple things decently, but we are particularly good at nothing, hence why ppl would rather invite a mnk to dd or a pld/nin to tank.

Imo, give us dd jugs and -DT (Most mobs use a special ability attack iirc, hence -DT will be superior to -PDT. It is superior anyway XD lol) on axes, the pet food update was nice, but our current jugs are not dds..........Non of these pets will out-dd a scorpion, ram/sheep, or a Opo-opo, period, unless they un-cap the sheep, but the sheep would not out-dd a scorpion, a scorpion should be our go to dd pet. It makes absolutely no sense to have a powerful dd monster absent from our jug list, no sense at all.

[Demonjustin]

It'd be nice if they just gave all pets natural -DT like they do with Loupans which have a natural -50% now. I wouldn't say all pets need a natural -50% but 30% would be good I think at making it easier to keep them up.

[Leonardus]

Bst will never replace nin, pld, or even run as a tank, hence should stick to being a dd. Ppl do not invite us to tank, plds and nins have better tools for it. I doubt our pets can hold hate off a REM dd. I think the hybrid niche is the problem, we can do multiple things decently, but we are particularly good at nothing, hence why ppl would rather invite a mnk to dd or a pld/nin to tank.

No WoW, we are not going to replace a pld, or a run. You can co-tank, however, on the hard stuff. You're like a DRG with Super Jump every 30 seconds, it has its uses.

And no, BST is not all about the pet. Put more than one point into Killer Instinct and give everyone a boost. Procure the strongest weapons and do the best you can. Yeah, we need help on the high-end. I really wouldn't mind a scorpion. But also keep in mind that BST jugs are specially-tuned. Just because a ram in the wild seems strong, doesn't mean a jug version would suddenly blow everything that currently exists away. I think you're setting yourself up for future disappointment if you think calling a mini-behemoth will transform us (It would look cool, though!).

[WoW]

No WoW, we are not going to replace a pld, or a run. You can co-tank, however, on the hard stuff. You're like a DRG with Super Jump every 30 seconds, it has its uses.

And no, BST is not all about the pet. Put more than one point into Killer Instinct and give everyone a boost. Procure the strongest weapons and do the best you can. Yeah, we need help on the high-end. I really wouldn't mind a scorpion. But also keep in mind that BST jugs are specially-tuned. Just because a ram in the wild seems strong, doesn't mean a jug version would suddenly blow everything that currently exists away. I think you're setting yourself up for future disappointment if you think calling a mini-behemoth will transform us (It would look cool, though!).

Then what is this thread about?

You say, just because a ram is strong in the wild does not mean the jug version would blow everything in existence away? I beg to differ; our last sheep-ish jug had a berserk ability and lamp-chop; was by far the best dd pet at that time (Until the cap). So you are saying a pet with zerk and a powerful ready move would not out-dd any of our current pets? Hmmmmm.

Are you assuming that the scorpion would not have death scissors and sharp strike? Are you assuming the opo-opo will not have viscous claw? If that is the case sure, I agree with you. However, if you are ok with that/getting sub-par dd pets and being a co-tank, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Bst is not a tank and bst is all about the pet otherwise get a bigger axe if you know what I am saying.......

Also, you are implying that I only want certain pets because they look cool? Nah, that boar is by far the coolest pet, appearance wise, but pretty crappy overall and I was just pointing out a comment made by a dev in the thread.

[Louispv]

I can't tell if you were being serious about Skirmish, It's easy to do on BST. Delve however I'm not retarded enough to bother with that on BST since it's just easier to do on MNK COR or BRD. AAs I've done on BST multiple times outside of the Elvaan in groups.

The jug pets are fine like I said & now that we even have food which buff the pet's accuracy and attack even more, it's easier then ever.

Not even close to being the most exspensive in the game. Ranger alone is a job where you shoot money to do damage.

I dunno what game you're playing, but even with all the pet acc gear in the game and Shiromochi, Ibuki doesn't even have capped accuracy on Very Easy mode. On Easy she's already down to 70%ish accuracy, and on Normal she has maybe 50%, and that's while absolutely crippling your own damage with pet gear. There's no point in even calling a pet above normal, it'll be taking several thousand damage per AoE and never land a hit. And that's Ibuki only, too since she receives a 50% accuracy bonus, the other pets don't even have useful accuracy in Very Easy. (Then again they also don't have the evasion or halved slashing damage either, so they would die too quickly to be useful even if they did)

My 115 avatars have an easier time soloing Very Easy than my 119 Jug pets, since merit bloodpacts can't miss, and Soloing Very Easy's the only thing you'd even use BST for.

And you apparently haven't played RNG in like 6 years, the job is entirely free. Every RNG in my LS bought a single stack of ammo when they got access to T-rex or Shark bullets, and they've still got 90+ of those bullets left today, because you only actually lose ammo 1-2 at a time when you forgot to use scavenge before zoning. Capped Recycle has existed and been damn easy to get for years.

On the other hand BST loses 40k gil or 2000 plasm every single time they call a pet, spend 4k every time they use reward, 10k for every dawn mulsum, and can't get any of it back because you lose it every time you zone, the pet dies, or 2 hours elapse. (And Voidwatch still depops your pet every fight, why?) The entire economy of the game is R/E/M currency and BST pets/food, that's all crafting is anymore.

[Malithar]

And you apparently haven't played RNG in like 6 years, the job is entirely free. Every RNG in my LS bought a single stack of ammo when they got access to T-rex or Shark bullets, and they've still got 90+ of those bullets left today, because you only actually lose ammo 1-2 at a time when you forgot to use scavenge before zoning. Capped Recycle has existed and been damn easy to get for years.

Not a Rng myself, but when LS Rngs geared well enough for VD DM, low manned Ds, and constant Delve 2 farming say they lose 10-15 bullets total in a typical Delve or DM, I tend to believe them. Did your LS beat Shark yesterday?

[SNK]

I may have been wrong about the food; that combined with the plethora of pet acc gear for pet should be enough to hit decently on harder content (Just speculating and going by comments from other players).

I was the biggest detractor pertaining to bst buffs and food, however, I really sat down and pondered this issue. On weaker mobs, pets are not world beaters by any means, usually, endgame involves difficult mobs which our current pets struggle on.

Well it really comes down to how you gear not only your pet but yourself as well. To me Jug pets these days take a backseat to my damage, They're tanks for the most part of what I work with which is how I like it. I don't enjoy sitting on my ass and letting my pet do all the work while I just sit there and pop reward if shit goes south.


I am not going to tell you that your experiences were wrong (Who am I to say that? Really...), considering the amount of +acc jugs receive from gear. Also, this thread shows that some individuals did have success with the new food http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/43131/shiromochi-and-kusamochi-effects/

I've toyed with the accuracy food in Skirmish III and I've seen some real positive results from Ibuki on 3/3/3 Runs. Mind you have I have 4 Points invested into Pet Accuracy from CPs but even then the new food really bridges the gap that jug pets suffer from higher content mob. It doesn't mean I'll be taking BST into Delve but, I'm content that I see my jugs pulling hate and surviving a lot better then I'd hoped they would.


Bst also has a pretty nasty merit ws.

This is very true. I capped this puppy to 5/5 and have put out some amazing #s for a hybrid DD job. No I'll never outparse a WAR MNK or SAM but I did get a chuckle out of me outparsing two RNGs vs AA Galka. Still trying to wrap my head around that sometimes, All I really did was DD that Galka and fall back everytime my shadow timers were down. I was doing on average 2.8k to 3.2k Ruinators on that mob in difficult.


However, I still feel that jug pets are merely naked mobs whom are not that special (Hence does not warrant an invite over a mnk, sam, war, or rng). However, I am going to be positive for once, imo, one thing that hinders bst dd wise is poor jug selection, but that is not gonna happen hence bst will stay were it is, second class job. I still believe the overall concept of the jug is flawed, but bst would be a bandwagon job if they added a scorpion, opo, wivre, or a ram jug (With all of there moves intact). Yea, I said it, bst a bandwagon job.

lol Well in a way BST is a bandwagon job but so many people play it so god awful that it's no wonder people don't invite BSTs to anything serious. The only reason I've gotten access to some end game content isn't because I have a 119 Guttler, it's because I don't fulltime Pet gear when it's not needed & I spent a ton of time on multiple gearsets for the job tho god only knows why. lol

I like the idea of Jug pets and honestly it originally to me was added because a BST being able to charm mobs in Abyessa would be too overpowering.


The key to taking bst to the next level is a careful implementation of jugs. It appears that the devs just throw any pet out there without considering what bst really is, a damage dealer. SE should always release the monsters with the most dd potential; if our next batch contains more of the same second tier dd pets, expect more of the same....

I think the thing SE is worried about is how overpowering that kind of jug would be for content that isn't end game. Not that it should matter but, I'm not the one playtesting this. The only thing I was slightly sad about was the Pet Treasure Hunter nerf but even then that's only minor.


I know you guys/gals are probably tired of me repeating this, but this is indeed a big problem; and if they finally release a dd pet, you guys/gals will see a dramatic difference. That is all I have to say really; I am tired of repeated the same stuff as you are hearing it. Gonna leave this thread until they release a true dd pet, no use repeating the same crap over and over.

For there to be a true DD pet it's gonna have to break a teir. tbh For a crap like Salvage and geartrains, I have a lot of fun cleaving the crap out of stuff with LuckyLulush. Clocking 6 to 8 gears at once in Salvage II for 900 to 2.8k each it pretty OP if you ask me. Anything that would be stronger then that would worry me because I'm sure it would get hit with the nerfbat pretty damn fast.

[SNK]

I dunno what game you're playing, but even with all the pet acc gear in the game and Shiromochi, Ibuki doesn't even have capped accuracy on Very Easy mode.

I don't know what to tell you then. I've havn't had any issues in Normal or Difficult to that extreme.


and Soloing Very Easy's the only thing you'd even use BST for.

Here's the thing, I'm not soloing those on BST. I'm doing it with other folks.


And you apparently haven't played RNG in like 6 years, the job is entirely free. Every RNG in my LS bought a single stack of ammo when they got access to T-rex or Shark bullets, and they've still got 90+ of those bullets left today, because you only actually lose ammo 1-2 at a time when you forgot to use scavenge before zoning. Capped Recycle has existed and been damn easy to get for years.

Let me rephrase it differently since shooting money probably isn't the way I should have worded it. To be a RNG or any job that constantly gets invited to AAs you have to at "least" spend 150 million gil or more to do those events on anything above normal. Yes I'm talking about relics and let's be honest, That's what most people want and will only invite to anything that just is a pain in the ass to do with lower teir gear.


On the other hand BST loses 40k gil or 2000 plasm every single time they call a pet, spend 4k every time they use reward, 10k for every dawn mulsum, and can't get any of it back because you lose it every time you zone, the pet dies, or 2 hours elapse.

See here's a problem that I don't have. I craft & farm most of the materials I need to substain my job so that saves me a ton of money alone. That 2k Plasm jug imo isn't worth it. There are better options with more bang for your buck. I would rather spend my plasm on gear or Airlixers then to buy that silly thing. Dawn Muslim I can't even recall the last time I used it or even needed it. Pet Food Theta works great and it's cheap and easy to farm. Also if you're solid enough in gear you should be able to get your reward timer down to under 45 seconds so in consideration if your pet is getting it's ass kicked that you're having to worry about when reward is going to be up then you probably are having a hard time with a mob you might not want to tangle with solo.


(And Voidwatch still depops your pet every fight, why?)

Pet Staggers in VW is stupid. I'll agree with you on saying that it was a dumb idea when you have so many other jobs that can stagger VW mobs without having to worry if your timers are up or not.


The entire economy of the game is R/E/M currency and BST pets/food, that's all crafting is anymore.

Well you have to adapt or get swept under the rug so to speak. I knew how busy this job would be and because I craft/farm almost all of my mats, I spend probably a lot less then most people do because I manage my time. Even with having a Guttler, I don't go nuts and spend cash like mad unless it's something I really would like to have but, I do admit sometimes I splurg once in awhile if it's a piece of gear I'd like to have. I finished full AF+1 and Relic +1 Reforge and while some pieces are a bit overkill imo, I love the job enough to go all the way with it.

I'm not going to say your opinion is wrong on the whole but I obviously play BST differently then you and it's paid off in spades for me to get access to higher end content.

[WoW]

I have not had any acc issues on lower tier modes neither, I solo MR on on VE; me and the pet are hitting pretty consistently.

So bst does fine acc wise on difficult? That is good to hear^^

[SNK]

I have not had any acc issues on lower tier modes neither, I solo MR on on VE; me and the pet are hitting pretty consistently.

So bst does fine acc wise on difficult? That is good to hear^^

Yeah as long as you have access to a bard like the other DDs and eat Sushi you shouldn't have any issues. Gear of course makes a difference as well. Since you'll be getting support like you're a mnk in some BCs, then worry about your own accuracy over the pet's. The new food helps in that retrospect.

[WoW]

you were telling Louis that your pet's never experienced such extreme instances of inaccuracy; and honestly; there is a ton of pet acc gear available, the delve axe has +28 and WKR axes have +30 acc on them, AF feet +10, Mittens +20, AF head +20 and food; so it is quite believable that pets would do fine on normal or difficult. Also, I have no problem using run wild and throwing out another pet when that one vanishes. Run wild grants a +25% bonus to accuracy iirc; that is a sizable amount considering the plethora of pet acc gear available.

Imo, putting run wild on a shorter timer would help bst out tremendously. Very underrated JA; I use when ever it is up (Unless I am soloing a boss and the pet vanishes XD). Run wild adjustment, Can I have it? Please?^^

Recast 6 minutes would be nice; I can deal with throwing out another pet, but that timer is "Ugh....." SE please adjust the timer of this move^^ Actually, I am going to ask this in the bst thread.

[Louispv]

If you make the items yourself, you are still paying full price for them. You didn't save 400k by making your own ibuki's, you still spent 400k gil when you used them instead of selling them.

[WoW]

^^I farm the mats, they are fairly common. I have a steady source of income, hence spending 170k on 12 jugs is nothing (But I make them). Shoot, magma steaks were like what...70k on asura? Anyone with dyna and Salvage access can make a ton of gil. I could log on right now and make near one mill in 45ish minutes. Losing a pet is a non-issue to me, they are consumables after all. The efficacy of the pets bothers me, not the price. If we had a jug that could dish out 3k ready moves on bosses nobody would complain because it is now the standard, akin to reforged gear mats, etc. However, if they did complain those individuals would have to get over it if they wanted to participate in endgame content.

Nobody like paying for things; i surely don't, but yea, 400k hurts which is why I make my own. When I started bst, jugs were bothersome to get a hold of; i wanted a specific jug, but could not catch it on ah (HQ beetle), hence I decided to end all of this crap and lvled woodworking and cooking so I could be self-efficient; now I make the prices^^

[SNK]

If you make the items yourself, you are still paying full price for them. You didn't save 400k by making your own ibuki's, you still spent 400k gil when you used them instead of selling them.

Why would I sell them? I like having access to nice jugs and not paying a dime for them. God I hate to sound arrogant about this but 400k is piss in the wind to me. This game literally throws money at you. Everytime I read someone complaining they can't make any money in FFXI isn't trying hard enough. Salvage, Dynamis, Walk of Echos, Limbus, & Meebles are just a few off the top of my head where you don't need a lot of time to go out and make some gil to buy the gear you want.

The complaints about BST being so costly just makes me roll my eyes because it really isn't that much at all when you can literally farm your own jug mats if you take the time and do it. During the times where I have some freetime from my usual money making ventures, I usually just sit and craft up a lot of jugs with around 10 to 20 stacks of each, send them to my mule and keep 1 stack of each on my main character. I keep track of what I use the most and plan ahead where I need to go to gather up materials to craft some more at a later day. I really hate using the AH for anything BST related unless I'm in a hurry to do something.

I think as a player Louis, you like BST but maybe you don't have enough freetime or incentive to get out there and farm gil. I don't know tho. I'm not you and you're not me so that's all there is to it.

Like I said in your previous post, I agree with some of your points but some of them however don't have anything to do with myself since I've had access to some end game content on BST where people know I don't bring myself halfassed to anything I get to be a part of on that job.

[WoW]

Serious question, what is the point of bst affinity? is bst the only job SE restricts to a level cap? Why cap jugs? What is the point of this? Why not allow bst to use any crappy jug pet they want? I don't get it. Some pets are just plain better than others, ask those hardcore monstrosity ppl whom point out the sucky and the strong monsters. It is like we are being forced to use these crappy new jugs (besides Ibuki whom has its' uses). I would like to use a 119 version of Nursey Nazuna, Crude Rahpie, and Faithfulfalcorr. I never understood the notion of restricting certain pets, why? Why should we be penalized for using NN over the crappy boar whom caps higher? (NN is a better dd and tank imo, when she was un-capped that is).

This is what I am referring to regarding flaws within the job. To make matters worse, our merits and 119 hand armor is predicated on this flawed pet lvl cap system, hence there is no turning back now. Also, SE does not release every pet family when new jugs are released (As Louis pointed out), this makes no sense; what if i wanted to use a lizard for killer instinct? Should I be penalized for this (Jug cap)?

Iirc, SE may release a hq version of droopy Dortwin; well, may I propose a hq version of other capped pets? I do not see the jug cap being lifted due to the need of a bst merit/armor re-haul. However, I would love to use NN, Raphie, or falcorr at lvl119^^Rage and lambchop was so nice^^

[Mefuki]

It seems to be the same logic SE is currently applying to Blue Magic. Instead of updating and adjusting older spells to be useful, thereby increasing strategy and battle depth, they just say, "Oh, we'll add more" and then proceed to give us only a couple of useful spells with very limited monster correlation.

WS are looking to get wide-scale adustments to get away from everyone using the same WS over and over. I'm hoping that MAYBE this is a first step away from the bizarre and shallow mentality of, "You should only have one or two useful things at any given level."

[WoW]

Gonna give them the benefit of the doubt; perhaps the July version update will address bst and blu spell/jug/restrictions respectively. Hopefully they remove the unnecessary restrictions from both jobs.

Not knocking SE or anything, but how hard can it be to give blu the most beneficial spells and bst the most beneficial jugs? How about removing the jug cap or doing something about blu point/slots? I do not play blu, but from what I am hearing, that may be the case. These two jobs appear to be predicated on the ecosystem. There are extremely powerful monsters with useful abilities in this ecosystem, how about....idk......giving us the most beneficial moves and jugs? Yea...crazy idea...i know....Why should we get the most powerful or useful monsters moves/jugs? I mean, Rng, Mnk, Sam, and War get powerful abilities, but why should we? Right?

I will leave this thread and never complain about bst again if they give us an clear answer as to why bst jugs are capped and why the most powerful jugs have been skipped over ,but they allow un-charmable monsters to become jugs. I just want to know; it is puzzling to me..... 12 years...no scorp or Opo-opo (Whom was part of the story line), both of these monsters are charmable, but were skipped over for weaker monsters and some of which, are un-charmable. It is like they are going out of their way to neglect the the strongest pets; they will even repeat monsters to avoid releasing them. 3 tigers, 4 rabbits, 4 crabs, and 5 mandys. 0 scorpions, 0 Opo-ops. To make matters worse, they just change the colors of the repeats like we are pre-schoolers and will be captivated by the new pretty colors. SE, will a Opo-opo and scorpion jug ever see the light of day? Can we have HQ 119 old jugs? Can run wild's timer be shorten? How about DW1? most bst use two axes for beneficial stat purposes.

[Louispv]

The complaints about BST being so costly just makes me roll my eyes because it really isn't that much at all when you can literally farm your own jug mats if you take the time and do it.

Then why did you bring it up? You're the one complaining that RNG costs so much, when everything you said applies equally to them. Especially since RNG is free. One delve run gives you all the plasm you will ever need for every piece of ammo you'll use for the rest of your life. If a Ranger shoots 99 shots, they only lose 900 plasm worth of bullets because they only actually lost 3 bullets. You get more than that from the random yggrette shards that drop while you're walking around.

And you don't seem to understand currency. If you have 300k worth of jugs, you spent 300k on them. You didn't save a single penny by making them, they're worth 300k and when you use them 300k worth of jugs are gone. Whereas the RNG lost next to nothing.

[SNK]

Then why did you bring it up?

Someone else brought it up 1st.


You're the one complaining that RNG costs so much, when everything you said applies equally to them. Especially since RNG is free.

RNG isn't free as you'd think. Like I said...


Let me rephrase it differently since shooting money probably isn't the way I should have worded it. To be a RNG or any job that constantly gets invited to AAs you have to at "least" spend 150 million gil or more to do those events on anything above normal. Yes I'm talking about relics and let's be honest, That's what most people want and will only invite to anything that just is a pain in the ass to do with lower teir gear.

@ The Bolded.


One delve run gives you all the plasm you will ever need for every piece of ammo you'll use for the rest of your life. If a Ranger shoots 99 shots, they only lose 900 plasm worth of bullets because they only actually lost 3 bullets. You get more than that from the random yggrette shards that drop while you're walking around.

Let me repeat it again.


Let me rephrase it differently since shooting money probably isn't the way I should have worded it. To be a RNG or any job that constantly gets invited to AAs you have to at "least" spend 150 million gil or more to do those events on anything above normal.

You keep wanting to harp on the same point when I already corrected myself already on this.



And you don't seem to understand currency. If you have 300k worth of jugs, you spent 300k on them. You didn't save a single penny by making them, they're worth 300k and when you use them 300k worth of jugs are gone. Whereas the RNG lost next to nothing.

You're not really making any sort of logical arguement here Louis. I'll try and break it down for you.

1) I go out and farm my materials which saves me from having to pay someone else for them.

2) I craft my jugs for myself for my own use where I once again am not paying someone to make them.

3) I have other ways of making money so as with any job, it has it's up and downs. Sitting there and telling me I'm using 300k when in reality I'm not spending any money out of pocket isn't in anyway logical.

You can sit there and hammer it to any angle you want but the fact of the matter is I'm not paying anything for these jugs.

Are they worth 300k? To some lazyass maybe. To me they're worth nothing because I don't need to pay someone else when I can go do it myself. I know you're either trying to start some arguement or maybe you're just looking to troll someone. I don't know either way. BST isn't as exspensive as some people make it out to be. In the long run all jobs cost money to maintain and BST by far isn't the most exspensive.

Next I'm pretty sure you're going to tell me that my Guttler is 150 million gil that I blew also even tho I didn't spend a dime on it. <_>

[Louispv]

Apparently basic mathematics don't exist in your world. If you farmed 150 million gil worth of currency, and you used it on a guttler, the guttler cost you 150 million gil, it wasn't free. You should know this, since you yourself said you do dynamis for money, from selling the currency. How does doing dynamis and selling currency make you money, but doing dynamis and spending the currency on a guttler not cost you money? Because you didn't turn the currency into gil, first?

If I have $100, I have $100. If I have $100 worth of gold nuggets, I have $100. If I take my $100 worth of gold nuggets and throw them into a volcano because I enjoying seeing the lava splash, I spent $100 dollars on that, I lost $100. Just because I didn't throw $100 in paper money into the damned volcano doesn't mean I didn't lose $100.

This is especially stupid, since in the same damned post, you claim your Relic axe was free, but a RNG's relic gun costs 150 million. These are mutually exclusive statements, one or both, by definition is wrong, and you are making both at the same time. The fact that RNG is the job that LEAST needs a relic to do content over Normal just compounds it.

[WoW]

Honestly, I could deal with dishing out money for items. However, there is nothing I can do about flawed mechanics. You can help how much money you make/buying jugs; you cannot transform a flawed pet system, unless you are a producer. I will take an expensive/solid pet anyday over easily accessible, cheap, restricted sub-par jug. That is just me tho.

Lets say that these jugs were completely free; wow.....bst is still on the sidelines...what did that solve? Jugs are basically free to me, it is not that special let me tell you. I face the same restriction you do; i just have more access to the restrictions. Yippeee?

Despite being a negative nancy; bst is a solid jug (From each family) and run wild cool down (6 minutes?) from being a complete job. Bst is fine, the master that is. This job has access to powerful gear sets, as well as a plethora of pet enchanting gear. We can do our part as a serviceable dd as opposed to a whining charity case, but SE must help us; meet us half way. It is only so much we can do as a player.

As it pertains to bst being overpowered, honestly, who isn't overpowered on lower lvl content, salvage, besieged, nyzul, etc? I have seen dd do damn near 10k ws on old content; I doubt any pet, even a scorpion could break 5k consistently on older content, let alone 10k (Unless you are doing reeeeeally old crap, like dyna, but good luck farming one-shotting everything). Hedjedjet could not even one-shot my pet pre-delve with its' more potent version of death scissors and pets have what, 5kish hp pre-item lvl? The argument about pets stream rolling dated content is not valid because every dd can put out insane damage on old content lol. There is a reason those dd get invited to hard content; imagine them on weaker content. Enough of the excuses folks. Ppl, including myself, thought that pet food would overpower pets; no quite, far from it.

That rabbit does 4-6k ws on besieged mobs, my ruinators hover around high 4,000s-7,000. Take into account that bst swing somewhat slow, the pet is restricted to a tp move timer (The good moves are usually 3 charges 2 minutes 30 seconds), and a lack of JAs. A bst with a dd pet WILL NOT be broken, far from it. If anything, it will allow us to be on par with top tier dds on dated crap and perhaps close the gap on harder battles; but jug pet strengths drops dramatically on difficult content. For instance, ibuki's molted plumage occasionally drops to triple digits on normal AAs.

Remember the abyssea days? Falcorr would triple attack, Fantod ,crit mobs frequently with the right atmas; doing damn near 2k damage on bosses per hit (Fantod), but bst was still shunned from abyssea, hmmmm. Perhaps dd pets and steamrolling old crap is not as broken as ppl think. Abyssea was the $hit back then, despite our powerful pets; other dd scaled as well, hence the steamrolling old crap argument is not valid. Other dds get stronger on weak crap also^^

Bst has no dd enchanting JAs outside of killer instinct which does not work in AR2 (The salvage I farm, unless you count the weak mobs that unlock crap). Also, other dds (PT) benefit from that buff which allows them to stay a step ahead of the master. Take a look at War, Sam, Mnk, and Rng JAs/abilities....yea. In a way, bst's JAs are its pets; they act as an added source of damage to compensate for our lack of offensive JAs. Sure you could sub War, but that will result in the lost of a wicked axe.

Even if they do not uncap the jugs or add a scorp/opo, SE could release HQ old jugs whom caps at 128 like herald henry; this would allow the jugs to attain higher acc by allowing them to scale higher than the player, whom will still be much stronger due to REM and other gear. If bst has to use merits to lvl pets, our jugs should attain a higher lvl than other pet jobs imo. They do not even have to release new jugs; just hq a several older ones and add few non-broken abilities. Personally, I would prefer if they took a break from releasing new jugs and just focus on strengthening the jugs we already have, by hq. Just my opinion. The move removal is an issue, this needs to addressed before releasing new half-powered jugs.

HQ pets:

Droopy Dortwin: Foot Kick, Dust Cloud, Whirl Claws, Wild Carrot, Wild Ginger.

Faithful Falcorr: Back heel, Fantod, Choke Breathe, Nihility Song, Hoof Volley

Amigo Sabotender: Needle Shot, Photosynthesis, 1k needles, 2k needles, and 4k needles (For all you old content ppl, this would be on the crappy ready timer and would do 4k on old crap; too bad other pets can do 4k ws on old crap aswell XD).

Gooey Gerald: Purulent Ooze, Fuscous Ooze, Corrosive Ooze, and Mucilaginous Ooze.

Blood Claw Shasra : Frenzied Rage, Pounce, Charged Whisker, Chaotic Eye, Blaster.

Scissorleg Xerin: Nature's Meditation, Sanguinary Slash, Sensilla Blades, Tegmina Buffet.

Crude Rahpie: Head Butt, Tortoise Stomp, Harden Shell, Earth Breathe, Aqua Breathe, Testudo Tremor.

I have no idea why these moves were removed from the jugs. One of the jugs have berserk, hence the absence of frenzied rage and nature's mediation was head scratching. Gooey could use HP down, hence the removal of Sanguinary Slash was head scratching. The notion that only certain pets should be able to use certain moves is flawed, because of the monster ecosystem. just allow pets to do the moves they were suppose to.

I am so tired of them releasing pretty/cool looking pets whom are weaker than our capped pets. I do not care about aesthetics, only efficacy. The boar and the pink bird are the coolest looking mobs in the game, no doubt, but I would prefer a un-gimped version of our old jugs. The non-broken moves you removed from them makes no sense.

Another thing, can you stop removing beneficial non-broken abilities from our jugs? Ready moves are restricted to a timer, hence no pet can use any particularly useful/strong move in rapid succession; 2 minutes and 30 seconds max. Sure you could use unleash and dish out nice damage in besieged; Yea, Fantod > 20k plus backheels are fun, but noone cares sadly; try that on content that gets you beneficial gear/armor. The above ready move list contains beneficial moves that will not break the game. Iirc, the broken moves are petrify, however, good luck landing petrify on a delve boss XD.The only broken moves that I recall are dependant on a enemies hp and none of the pets I mentioned have such moves. Giving our pets the beneficial moves they should have had will help us out immensely.

Edit: When you sit back and really examine our jugs, they are not that bad at all; SE makes them bad. Capped jugs, run wild's ridiculous timer, and ability removal (Srry about calling SE out, but it is their doing).

[SNK]

Apparently basic mathematics don't exist in your world. If you farmed 150 million gil worth of currency, and you used it on a guttler, the guttler cost you 150 million gil, it wasn't free.

Really are you just trying to be that much obtuse or are you just making up arguements to keep this thread bumped.


You should know this, since you yourself said you do dynamis for money, from selling the currency.

Right, Because you know doing work and getting paid for your efforts is such an illogical thing.


How does doing dynamis and selling currency make you money, but doing dynamis and spending the currency on a guttler not cost you money? Because you didn't turn the currency into gil, first?

I didn't actually. 100% of my currency was done in trades without any actual gil transactions. I didn't start selling the currency until after, Yes, I said after I finished my relic.


If I have $100, I have $100. If I have $100 worth of gold nuggets, I have $100. If I take my $100 worth of gold nuggets and throw them into a volcano because I enjoying seeing the lava splash, I spent $100 dollars on that, I lost $100.

If you mined those gold nuggets then you can do whatever you want to em. It doesn't change the fact you didn't buy those nuggets. You went and got them on your own without paying anything out of your pocket. This starting to make sense to you yet or are you just going to keep making arguements for the arguement's sake?


Just because I didn't throw $100 in paper money into the damned volcano doesn't mean I didn't lose $100.

So because I use my jugs instead of selling them, Thus wasting gil I could be making by selling them or I don't know, I could just farm Salvage, Dynamis or w/e and making a buttload more gil and buy jugs and thus end up wasting more money VS. where I could, I don't know, farm the materials, make the jugs and (omfg) save money in the long run by making my own jugs/food so I can perform my job to it's fullest?

Damn man, you showed me the light. How I could I ever think that maybe gearing myself up to do better with my job when I should just have just kept the job at level 1 and played a table top game at home? Oh shit wait no, you gotta goto the store and buy that also. Damn I can't eat either can I? Well maybe I can find some leaves to gnaw on, Those might be free right?


This is especially stupid, since in the same damned post, you claim your Relic axe was free, but a RNG's relic gun costs 150 million.

You're the dork that tried to make something out of nothing. It's not my fault you can't handle what you're throwing out.


These are mutually exclusive statements, one or both, by definition is wrong, and you are making both at the same time.

Good lord, you're like the energizer bunny, you just keep going, and going over the same thing without reading anything I posted.



The fact that RNG is the job that LEAST needs a relic to do content over Normal just compounds it.

It's not my fault that RNG is the job people want for almost everything over difficult now is it? Or are you going to blame me for that too?

You know what system would be nice since I know SE could implement it? A Jug Recycle Job trait. I.E. Using Call Beast and sometimes the jug being used isn't consumed. I bet that alone would shut up people for a short time. Hell they could even create gear which I would actually buy,

Dammit I can't waste gil, Um farm and sell for more gil... wait no I want this gear.... dammit I'm confused. HELP ME LOUIS!

[Louispv]

Good lord, you're like the energizer bunny, you just keep going, and going over the same thing without reading anything I posted.


No, I keep responding to you making the same retarded statement, over and over. If you stop showing your 3rd grade drop out level of education, I'll stop having to correct you.So here we go again;

If you have a stack of jugs, and those jugs sell for 300,000 gil, and you use them, you have used 300,000 gil worth of jugs. You have lost 300,000 gil. It is called opportunity cost, and 8 year olds understand it. And on top of that, the fact that it took you FAAAAR longer to gather all the materials for the jugs and make them yourself, than it does to simply make the gil to buy them, means you've lost EVEN MORE MONEY! You haven't saved a single penny.

And as I've pointed out, again and again, the reason why, straight from SE's mouth, that RNG has always been overly powerful, is that they have to pay out the nose for their damage, while everyone else gets theirs free. But their damage is free and they pay nothing, yet get to be the strongest DD in the game, but BST which pays more for their damage than any other job in the game, gets to be one of the weakest DD's in the game. (I'd paid more in jugs and biscuits by 2011, than buying every single scroll in the game, all the ninja tools I've ever used, and all the ammo for COR, NIN and RNG put together up until the present day, as an example.)

If I can easily, by giving up nothing else, get a 95% proc rate on the jug pet recycle like RNG can, sure I'd stop bitching that weak jugs are expensive. If the expensive jugs were appropriately strong and put BST on level with everyone else, I'd shut up. But when I spend truckloads of money for pets that are too weak to even put me in the same game as RNG in terms of damage, I'm taking it in both ends.

The rest of your post was just fucking gibberish, and doesn't even have anything to do with what you quoted me saying, so I think I'm done for now.

[SNK]

No, I keep responding to you making the same retarded statement, over and over. If you stop showing your 3rd grade drop out level of education, I'll stop having to correct you.So here we go again;

If you have a stack of jugs, and those jugs sell for 300,000 gil, and you use them, you have used 300,000 gil worth of jugs. You have lost 300,000 gil.

This is the part you're not getting. No money is being spent. Peroid. 300k of jugs isn't 300k worth of jugs if I'm not spending anything other then my own time farming the mats.


It is called opportunity cost, and 8 year olds understand it. And on top of that, the fact that it took you FAAAAR longer to gather all the materials for the jugs and make them yourself, than it does to simply make the gil to buy them, means you've lost EVEN MORE MONEY! You haven't saved a single penny.

Because I obviously don't enjoy harvesting, logging & fishing right?


And as I've pointed out, again and again, the reason why, straight from SE's mouth, that RNG has always been overly powerful, is that they have to pay out the nose for their damage, while everyone else gets theirs free. But their damage is free and they pay nothing, yet get to be the strongest DD in the game,

To be fair RNG took the biggest nerfbat and it only took many years later for them to be wanted for anything viable in the game. A Beastmaster doesn't need a relic to be functional. A RNG to even be considered however for anything, has to have one. The same as a PLD needs to have an Ochain & an Aegis because that's all what people will want or even accept anymore.

It sucks but that's the cold hard truth. :(


but BST which pays more for their damage than any other job in the game, gets to be one of the weakest DD's in the game. (I'd paid more in jugs and biscuits by 2011, than buying every single scroll in the game, all the ninja tools I've ever used, and all the ammo for COR, NIN and RNG put together up until the present day, as an example.)

I still don't agree with it being the most exspensive. In consideration of all things I get the feeling you want BST to be able to do Delve with RNGs, MNKs, and whatever other cookiecutter jobs that people normally want.


If I can easily, by giving up nothing else, get a 95% proc rate on the jug pet recycle like RNG can, sure I'd stop bitching that weak jugs are expensive. If the expensive jugs were appropriately strong and put BST on level with everyone else, I'd shut up.

The problem is, Even if we got recycled jugs, It wouldn't change a damn thing. Nobody wants BST for the most part to shit like SCNMs, Delve, AAs, & even for Skirmish because to be honest, there are better options out there job wise. The main reasons I've gotten invited to anything outside of delve is because the folks I've run with know I can bring damage to the table.


But when I spend truckloads of money for pets that are too weak to even put me in the same game as RNG in terms of damage, I'm taking it in both ends.

It's the choice you made like the rest of us when you leveled beastmaster. Nobody wants to be told a job they love isn't worth dick for anything end game related but it's a bitter truth and unless SE gives enough of a damn to change that to an extreme then that's how it's going to be.


The rest of your post was just fucking gibberish, and doesn't even have anything to do with what you quoted me saying, so I think I'm done for now.

Look Louis, You can call it what you want but I made valid points. Just because I enjoy doing stuff in game that you don't like, doesn't make your opinion right over mine.

[WoW]

Seriously, for anybody complaining about jug prices in 2014 (Easymode).................

If you receive an infinite amount of cheap pets, the same problems will still exist. Your jugs suck; I have a plethora of Ibuki's, the $hit is not that serious, she is not that good. Yes her acc is not really an issue, but she hits like crap on normal content or above (Dmg wise). If I made my own crap and you paid for a pile of crap; in the end, we all have the same crap, only you paid top dollar for yours. The efficacy of the crap is the same. Did I win something special? No, crap is crap. Having access to more crap is not going make you a super bst. Paying less or receiving free crap will not change much neither. Rngs have bullets which are efficient, comparing rng to bst jug is somewhat tricky because Rng is a pretty stable (Near flawless) job. Bullets > jug pets as it pertains to efficacy.

Anyway, SE still does not get it http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/42545-dev1215-Synthesis-Additions-and-Adjustments?p=510869#post510869

There is no hope; I am speechless...........I give up, feel like I am talking to a automated system.....

Edit: Also, prices are dictated by the players; they could release plasm jugs, but ppl would complain about plasm. Personally, I have never experienced jug shortage issues; I would buy Hermes for kicks and those usually last me for days, even weeks (One stack). Any player can make 2mill a day between salvage and Dyna.

[Olor]

Yay HQ pets! Now I can spend even more Gil on sucking. Can the devs please understand that BST and other pet jobs either need to be made massively more powerful or buffs and all gear bonuses and all food bonuses need to apply to pets. The end.

[WoW]

Yay HQ pets! Now I can spend even more Gil on sucking. Can the devs please understand that BST and other pet jobs either need to be made massively more powerful or buffs and all gear bonuses and all food bonuses need to apply to pets. The end.

Olor, you are talking to an automated system, hehe. They do not interact/really communicate with you per-se, just talk about whatever they please.

Olor and my fellow bst (Or even Blu mages), time to wake up and smell the coffee; our buffed pets are in monstrosity (Blus, your useful moves may be there aswell). Instincts slots should have went to bst (Pup Attachments) and those monsters possess the majority of their beneficial moves. If you guys want to do useless side content, might as well do it on a fully buffed pet (Monstrosity) as opposed to a jug that cost you an arm and a leg. Why are you bst paying top dollar for crappy half-@$$ed jugs on a job that is not even in demand, versus roaming around on fully buffed pets for free? there is no point "trying" to do content on bst; change jobs. Monstrosity > bst; both roam around solo doing random crap, but it is much more enjoyable on monstrosity. This may sound like "Whatever" but really, what can we do?

I am a extremely direct individual, although I aim to be respectful at all times. SE will never answer my previous questions regardless of the likes it receives because there is no vague answer they can come up with. Reducing run wild's/removing pet disappearance would not be broken and they know it. They know it is a fact that NN had zerk and lambchop, but frenzied rage, pounce, nature's mediation, etc was removed from our jugs. They may be aware that, the move removal does not make sense considering our old pet's had similar moves. The jug poll; iirc, that whole fiasco resembled a WWE match. The scorp won, but it did not win...hmmm.

Pup gets a load of acc through merits; our JA gives +25% acc, attack, defense, and a regen effect, but the timer is 15 minutes and our pet disappears which completely nullifies familiar; is that fair? Also, why is Herald henry the only pet that caps higher than players? Since we use merits, all hq pets should not only cap a 128, but have the moves they should had to begin with; "High Quality."

Picture this, run wild's timer reduced and the pet removal gone, a hq version of Razor brain broth (Cheap pet). Caps at 128 (All jugs should, we spend merits to lvl our pets, makes no sense to have one hq pet at 128), ready moves: Pounce, frenzied rage, charged whisker, blaster, chaotic eye. This broth is extremely cheap like all of our older jugs due to the ingredients being quite easy to obtain. So basically, this pet > Ibuki whom is quite expensive (Does not bother me, but I can acknowledge the fact that this thing cost 200k-ish). Even if they both capped at 128, the dd jug would be superior to Ibuki's slashing resistance, because bst are dds, not tanks. Also, AAs on easy modes would not be able to deal with a 128 dd pet with run wild active (Potent regen, +25% def, att, and acc). Being lvl128 would also allow blaster to land on those battles (Unless they have a native resist para or something).

(Here is an example, just an example pet) So basically, a near constant +25% def, att, acc, and a regen (Run wild) effect + Coeurl + being a cheap pet +Frenzied rage +(+20% attack) + pounce = profit. Checkparam on that pet^^ Not to mention bst get a ton of +att and acc from gear which further enhances our pet.

But SE doesn't hear me/us tho, back to monstrosity.

Edit: Not saying smns are fine; not a smn, but I have seen videos of them doing like 7k pacts on the new delve awhile ago, here are some stories. http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/39806/summoner-in-delve-share-your-stories/4/. That is insane!!!^^ Imo, the two pet jobs in dumps are pup and bst, dd pet wise. Drgs are fine dd, not full on pet jobs per-se, but they could probably use some damage enchanting JAs compared to the Sams, Wars, and Rngs of the world.

[Alhanelem]

Edit: Not saying smns are fine; not a smn, but I have seen videos of them doing like 7k pacts on the new delve awhile ago, here are some stories.Blood pacts have high damage but are limited by a set timer that can't go lower than a certain amount, unlike other jobs where you can gain TP faster and perform multiple high damage attacks in the time it takes a summoner to do one blood pact. Even if the summoner melees and adds their own WS to the mix, it's not enough to catch up

1( as much as I like to do it where it's possible, meleeing and using WS isn't something that should be required of the summoner in order to be able to compete. I recognize that most summoners do not want to risk their necks to nudge up their DPS by a minor amount.
2)unless you have the new 1-hour active, SMN is still tied to a restrictive timer that limits both their damage and support potential. We were recently allowed to take our timers lower with "blood pact ability delay - II" but we still have to bend over backwards to obtain enough of it to matter, and on top of that it's 2 stats, and often the 2 different stats are in the same slot, making it all the more difficult to obtain enough of both (and there is no gear which has both stats).

[WoW]

Blood pacts have high damage but are limited by a set timer that can't go lower than a certain amount, unlike other jobs where you can gain TP faster and perform multiple high damage attacks in the time it takes a summoner to do one blood pact. Even if the summoner melees and adds their own WS to the mix, it's not enough to catch up

1( as much as I like to do it where it's possible, meleeing and using WS isn't something that should be required of the summoner in order to be able to compete. I recognize that most summoners do not want to risk their necks to nudge up their DPS by a minor amount.
2)unless you have the new 1-hour active, SMN is still tied to a restrictive timer that limits both their damage and support potential. We were recently allowed to take our timers lower with "blood pact ability delay - II" but we still have to bend over backwards to obtain enough of it to matter, and on top of that it's 2 stats, and often the 2 different stats are in the same slot, making it all the more difficult to obtain enough of both (and there is no gear which has both stats).

According to that thread; smn could do 11k dmg every 35 secs; that is very impressive. As a bst, I would take 3k-ish ready moves every 2 minutes and 30 (ready meter) secs on bosses lol. The smns in that thread appear happy with their performance in delve 2.0. It appears that smn has other uses as well, such as debuffing and adds (Correct me if I am wrong, no smn)? They feel like there is a place for them in delve 2.0. I am just going by what you and those other smns have to say; I am no smn. Check out those comments; idk, that seems like some insane dmg, but i am on the outside looking in, can only take what others tell me.

[Raydeus]

A SMN, a PUP and a BST walk into a bar in Sand'Oria...

[WoW]

A SMN, a PUP and a BST walk into a bar in Sand'Oria...

Lol; sorry, but that was funny.

[Mitruya]

A SMN, a PUP and a BST walk into a bar in Sand'Oria...

And the DRG already in the bar says, "So you couldn't get an invite either?"

Job needs for DRG:
- able to call out a new pet as fast as the other pet jobs can
- a self-buff JA like WAR/DRK/MNK have
- add haste to wyvern since DRGs don't equip much pet:haste gear
- Jump bonuses that apply to ALL jumps
And of course, the obligatory need more def, att, acc, and dawn mulsums need to stack...

PUP needs longer maneuvers and pets that can hit tough stuff.

Blah blah blah AoE party buffs, damage reduction, whatever it takes to get pet jobs into endgame content as an alternative party slot...

[Olor]

Great suggestions for DRG Mitruya! It's the one pet job I've played the least so I haven't had much to say about it - and although it is in a somewhat better situation than other pet jobs it still needs a buff.

Still waiting for a real commitment from the devs to fix pet jobs.

[Mitruya]

I neglected to give credit to Ophannus on FFXIAH.com; I basically pulled the majority of that list from a thread on there. DRG does get invites once in a while but I don't think it's a top choice if a WAR/DRK/SAM is available.

[Louispv]

Blood pacts have high damage but are limited by a set timer that can't go lower than a certain amount, unlike other jobs where you can gain TP faster and perform multiple high damage attacks in the time it takes a summoner to do one blood pact. Even if the summoner melees and adds their own WS to the mix, it's not enough to catch up


SMN don't melee to add damage, they nuke. SMN gets exactly the same gear BLM gets, the same weapons, and with /SCH nearly the same skill. (I'm pretty sure the appropriate storm spell and klimaform actually puts the at higher accuracy than the BLM for every element but thunder.) They're just a few MAB behind from missing the trait. (Which the storm+ obi easily compensates for, again, except thunder.)

Not only does dropping a 6k bloodpact every 37 seconds help tremendously, but then doing a 1200 damage nuke every second for the next 36 seconds until you can do it again, for 4 mp/spell. SMN does about as much as anyone else, and can do it from outside aoe range too. (Plus for some reason, bloodpacts almost always remove boss auras.) The avatar meleeing also adds damage, and gets them more tp so the next pact is even stronger. And that's a SMN walking around in nq hagondes and eminent weapon/satchet. Stick HQ hagondes with perfect augments, seraphicaller and 119 nirvana for a level 121 avatar, that does 11k damage bloodpacts instead of 6k, and can drop enemy evasion-25%, or a Scherzo effect, or a 3 minute warcry on the party, and suddenly you see why 6 nirvanas have shown up on my server in the last 6 months. And that's before being able to fall back on probably the most damaging 1 hour in the game in astral conduit, and the best defensive one in perfect defense. (Which thanks to job points, even make each other stronger.)

Bloodpact ability delay isn't even a problem. Head and hands, done, capped. Or head, hands, and cape if you don't want to +1 them. Then ammo, body, and feet cap delay II.

And for some reason 115 avatars with no pet enhancing gear have the same stats as 119 jug pets in full pet enhancing gear, with a permanent DT-50%, are immune to 2 of the 8 elements, and have no recast timer. And their bloodpacts are perfectly reliable, because Summoning skill acts as acc and magic acc for them. My shitty SMN has basically replaced my BST for everything except arch angel Mithra soloing, and that's due solely to laziness. (I don't want to sleep the tiger for pet swaps.) Also, since the SMN doesn't need to melee, the pet food has been nothing but a boon to them. SMN is working just fine.

[Olor]

SMN is certainly in a better place than BST. BST has no party buffs worth using, costs a fortune, and can barely hit a brick wall.

[WoW]

^^Yea, that are damaging and have other utility uses......I don't see the issue, but then again, I am not a smn. Just observe their awesomeness from afar^^

[Olor]

Also can we please at least get a jug pet we can buy with sparks since RNG and COR no longer even have to spend gil or gather materials or do anything but use sparks for consumables now if they don't want to? Tired of spending a fortune on BST.

[Olor]

Hello, everyone.

Rest assured that the development team has not forgotten about pets, nor are they ignoring your feedback. Everything is being taken in and considered for adjustments.

The first adjustment that they are planning, as we mentioned previously, is the addition of food that will affect both the master and the pet. Amongst this new food, there will be accuracy enhancing food, much like sushi, that will increase the accuracy for both the master and the pet. These new foods will be added in the next version update.

Also, due to the fact that pets cannot receive enhancements from songs and such, the development team is planning to make the effect received from food higher for pets than what the player receives.

Before any further adjustments are made, we’d like to start by implementing this first and monitoring the situation for a while. After the version update is live, please be sure to try out the food and let us know your feedback.

Hi Camate... so just wondering, has the dev team been "monitoring the situation" lately? Cause I haven't seen a single shout for a single pet job since food came in... and when I play with my LS mates, I still fall far behind in DD than people on other DD jobs (not even mnks... I mean like BLU)

So... yeah when is the update that makes pet jobs get full buffs like other jobs? Thanks.

love,

Olor

[WoW]

Well, the master certainly got a buff; bst weaponskills (Can finally use cloudsplitter :) ) and the WKR axes are nice, but the master was never the problem, lol, it was the pets. The new food looks nice, but yea, the same issues exist. SE is trying to make our pets serviceable dds by not giving us pet boosting JAs and damaging moves....

Hows that working out for ya :)

I find this quite funny and also contradictory.

[Mitruya]

Has anyone tried akamochi in endgame? (or had luck being invited in the first place...)
Still waiting for balanced content, SE.

[WoW]

I can maintain a solid hit-rate on normal; I highly doubt someone can attain a decent hit-rate on VD (Would love to know myself^^), even with run wild, food, and optimization/pet full on acc gear. According to BG, the food does not look like a fix; gives acc and some attack. However, the added attack is a nice idea.

Pets need a re-haul; plain and simple. Nobody has time to babysit a weaker pt member that does very little to contribute. We should not have to gear for pets, jugs/automatons should be able to take-care of themselves.

As it pertains to bst, I do not give 2 craps about my pet anymore. I strictly gear for myself; it is a waste to gear for them imo. You can maintain a good hit-rate on normal, perhaps hard/difficult, but why bother? Foot kick? Headbutt? Sensilla blades? Molted plumage? Sweeping gouge? Personally, I will not carter to a jug's pet accuracy issues when that pet possess weak ready moves. I am not going to help him reach 100tp so he can do some BS crap move for triple digits. It is not like jugs do great DoT. Screw jugs atm, lol. If SE loved, Gamboge beetles, Hippos, Craklaws, and Opo-opos as much as they like grasshoppers, pink birdies, crabs, and rabbits, I would attempt to gear for them, but personally, I am tired of the BS pets and the non-existent JAs for pets.

[Railer]

Gee, how about a decent shield for BST. Wild carrot via a familiar takes too long and is too weak, an ability to put pets back in jugs would be nice.

[WoW]

Gee, how about a decent shield for BST. Wild carrot via a familiar takes too long and is too weak, an ability to put pets back in jugs would be nice.

Bst should have received a REM shield by now. Bst appears to be a 1 hander dd, no native DW. A shield would be nice; perhaps a bst ONLY delve shield. "Recycle pets and some other pet/master boosting combo." Would have to be powerful enough for this to happen, 1 hand > DW; but yea, I agree with you^^

[Mitruya]

It is sort of odd that BSTs can't scavenge food or recycle jugs or something. Almost every other job with consumables seems to have a way to mitigate this expense using gear or a JA.
We still need Dawn Mulsums to stack, please.

[Olor]

We should get at least native dual wield 3, or we should get a decent shield skill and some really good shields to use with it. Hell, if scythe wasn't pretty much universally the most terrible weapon in the game, I'd even take some good BST scythes... but right now we got nothing.

[Lithera]

Hey WoW keep your fingers crossed that the sheep Camate talked about in another thread makes it in the game when they toss in the new pets.

[WoW]

Yea, I just read about that. Those Kahmir sheep are nasty. The pet adjustments look nice, more than what I expected; plea heard I suppose^^

This line has bandwagon written all over it though, lol. "We’re planning to boost the combined damage over time capability of the master and pet so that it is greater than that of your standard damage dealer as there are certain costs associated with maintaining pets." Wow, if the sheep is the cheaper pet, wonder what is the costly pet gonna be (If there is one). Imo, if the pets are damaging, most will probably accept the price if they can be used in endgame.

[Mitruya]

BST with scythe would be so freakin' awesome. (I really wanted to like DRK, but with scythe not being the preferred weapon it's just sort of meh.) Agreed that BST either needs Dual Wield or shield skill (or both). On the other hand, Dar carried a sword ... ;p
The latest post from Camate does have me intrigued.

[Olor]

The latest post from Camate does have me intrigued.

I am hopeful that they said they want pet jobs to be stronger - but none of the suggested changes they listed suggest they are actually going to achieve it. I think they are VERY FAR off of what is needed to bring BST in particular in line with other DDs. BST has no native DD abilities - single wield, and axe weaponskills are very weak compared to say GKT.

Increasing the power of ready moves is not helpful since the timer is so long and JA delay makes master fall behind even further. Also the accuracy of them is terrible.

Food is a band-aid that helps us sort of catch up but not really since it means we can't eat the best food for master damage output. Our pets don't get madrigals so in buffed situations the master is forced to choose, eat acc food and have master damage fall or eat attack food and have pet damage fall behind? Nevermind that it means that we also can't eat the best food for DDs, we are stuck eating food that also boosts pet. So other DDs can eat red curry buns but if we do our pets lose out? Food is a terrible "fix" because it has to be balanced against all jobs.

It's impossible to get full pet haste without gimping the master and even with full pet haste, you don't get all the other stats players have on a HUGE percentage of your damage output. Let's not forget that no magical haste is pretty much a dealbreaker in terms of damage potential.

I really don't see how the three things Camate mentioned will bring BST anywhere close to other DDs - let alone surpassing them in unbuffed situations...

What pet jobs need = pets can get all buffs and be healed
All stats on master's gear apply to pets

Otherwise basically they need to give BST monstrously powerful axes, uncap all pets and allow BST affinity to give levels to pet over the weapon level. The level correction would make the pets hit hard enough to make a difference but seriously, a gimpy pet doing 75 damage at like 25% gear haste is not helpful even if instead of doing 1000 for it's WS every 2 minutes it could do 3000... not going to help

[Shinron-PUP]

Greetings,

As an overarching theme for job adjustments we are planning to make attack adjustments to damage dealing jobs based on monk’s current attack capabilities.

One aspect of this overall adjustment plan was the skill chain and weapon skill enhancements that gave samurai more power.


Warrior
Compared to monk, warrior’s hit per hit strength is slightly lacking as an attacker, and the development team feels a need to give them attack power that is more suitable and in order to do this they are looking into a new type of system.


Puppetmaster
We’ll be reducing the damage gap between each of the weapon skills performed by automatons and make it so you’ll be able to better control your maneuvers to match the attachments you are using.


Beastmaster, dragoon, and puppetmaster
To give a rough overview of our plans for these three jobs, we’re planning to boost the combined damage over time capability of the master and pet so that it is greater than that of your standard damage dealer as there are certain costs associated with maintaining pets.

As such, the development team is looking into the following adjustments:

Implementation of higher-tier mochi
By adding new mochi, a pet’s attack and accuracy will be supplemented further.


Improvements to the power of special abilities
Just as we increased the damage value of pet’s special abilities in the January version update, we’ll be making further adjustments to this again as we move forward.


New “Call Beast” pets
We’re still in the midst of planning the addition of new pets, and as an example of a pet that can utilized for a comparatively lower cost, a Lucerewe-type sheep has been brought up as a possible candidate.



The team has been assigning priority to the various job adjustment tasks at hand, so please stayed tuned for further details for each of these adjustments.

I'd like to begin by saying that the above adjustments for pet jobs mentioned by Camate sound very promising; however, as we have all learned very well, we shouldn't get our hopes up just yet. A couple of people have already mentioned that although the development team does seem to be moving in the right direction, all of their suggestions really won't solve the struggle of pet jobs on a long term level.



Puppetmaster
We’ll be reducing the damage gap between each of the weapon skills performed by automatons .

Starting with their announcement about Puppetmaster, reducing the damage gap between each weapon skill is definitely a long awaited fix. By doing this, it will allow us to utilize some of the lower level weapon skills such as Cannibal Blade, Bone crusher, Knock out, Slap Stick, and Daze that have tactical uses in comparison to our highest tier weapon skills. However, I'd like to see something similar to the weapon skill revisions we seen in the June update applied to Automaton weapon skills because some of the lower level weapon skills automaton's acquire need a few fixes.
* Cannibal Blade - This weapon skill is very useful because it drains HP and deals damage, however, the weapon skill is not practical sometimes because it generates no enmity. The development team should take into consideration allowing this weapon skill to generate enmity as well as receive a substantial damage boost so that it has a greater use to the Valor Edge Frame
* Magic Moarter - Even after revisions in the past to this weapon skill, it's still considerably weak. I'd like to see further adjustment to this weapon skill maybe even possibly making it no longer HP % dependent.
* As for other weapon skills, some modifiers and skillchain properties should definitely be moved around so that they are more competitive with the top tier weapon skills that automatons have. I would even go so far to say that some weapon skills' maneuver priorities should be changed. For example, making a strong weapon skill prioritized under Fire Manuever so that it can be combined with Flame Holder and Attack Attachments for a bigger damage result.



Puppetmaster
Make it so you’ll be able to better control your maneuvers to match the attachments you are using.

This comment was extremely vague but it sounds as though the development team is considering revamping the maneuver system but exactly what they are doing is up to interpretation... Extending maneuver duration or allowing us to use more than 3 maneuvers so that we can activate more attachments at a time are all possibilities, but I strongly doubt that they would do either of those things.




Beastmaster, dragoon, and puppetmaster
To give a rough overview of our plans for these three jobs, we’re planning to boost the combined damage over time capability of the master and pet so that it is greater than that of your standard damage dealer as there are certain costs associated with maintaining pets.

It's clearly hard to argue with the development team making pet jobs stronger than the standard damage dealer. I would say that making us stronger than standard damage dealers is possibly a bad idea because you would essentially be putting standard damage dealers in the same position that pet jobs are in currently, but if pet jobs are slightly stronger than standard damage dealers, I believe that it would be fair because we need that handicap granted we deal with pets dying easily, the costs of curing and summoning our pets, and for jobs like Puppetmaster, job ability animation spam which can considerably lower dps over time.



As such, the development team is looking into the following adjustments:


Implementation of higher-tier mochi
By adding new mochi, a pet’s attack and accuracy will be supplemented further.


Improvements to the power of special abilities
Just as we increased the damage value of pet’s special abilities in the January version update, we’ll be making further adjustments to this again as we move forward.


New “Call Beast” pets
We’re still in the midst of planning the addition of new pets, and as an example of a pet that can utilized for a comparatively lower cost, a Lucerewe-type sheep has been brought up as a possible candidate.

[/list]

The team has been assigning priority to the various job adjustment tasks at hand, so please stayed tuned for further details for each of these adjustments.


* Adding higher tier Mochi - This isn't necessarily a bad idea because the current pet food is pretty pathetic granted the development team essentially said that the foods accuracy and attack value was supposed to also take into consideration the fact that pets do not receive buffs from Songs, Rolls, and Geomancy. 100 Accuracy and 100 Attack from pet food is not incorporating the missing values pets don't receive from those buffs. I'd at least like to see pets receiving 25% attack and accuracy (About 250 Accuracy and Attack) from food to supplement for us not receiving these necessary effects.

I'd also like to point out that adding higher tier Mochi to deal with the accuracy and attack deficiency that pets currently have is a horrible idea. Pet's natural Accuracy and Attack should be boosted directly first before adding higher tier mochi, and after that Mochi should only be for supplemental purposes like when you are in high level group content. By only giving the necessary accuracy/attack for high level content through food, players who can't afford this food are going to be unable to participate on pet jobs simply because they don't have enough gil, when if they played a standard damage dealer job, they could essentially get those necessary accuracy buffs for free. In summary, pet jobs should be able to hit high level content without them necessarily using food, otherwise you're creating a dependency on another costly item to participate in high level group content... I think Beastmaster paying for jugs, dawn mulsims, and reward as well as all the other pet jobs paying for these similar items is costly enough.

*Call Beast Adjustments - The fact that the development team keeps adding new pets as a way to supplement for damage dealing issues for beastmaster is silly to me. Instead of adding new pets, the development team should simply get rid of the level caps on all jugs. There are over 30+ useful pets that beastmaster has access to but are useless only because the level cap. By getting rid of it, beastmaster would have a larger variety of pets it'd have access to so that they can use different pets depending on the situation while also making it so that every time the development team increases the level cap, beastmaster doesn't need a new pet implemented. I do believe that more pets should be implemented for beastmaster, but I also believe that all the other pets such as tigers, cactaurs, mandrigoras, etc. should not die off at the same rate.


A lot of the ideas the development team has for pets jobs is a good start, but after playing FFXi for over 10 years, I'm beginning to notice that the development team has a hard time implementing fixes that actually have positive long term effects. For example, Mochi (pet food) is great, but if the game goes on for another 2~5 years, and the level cap increases again, then pet jobs will be in the same place that we were before with accuracy issues then they'll have to add another high tier mochi. What we need are fixes that resolves the issue forever, and not something that just helps for a year then we're back in the same place we started. I hate to beat a dead horse, but if they would simply just allow the original suggestion of this thread to be implemented, most of the problems pet jobs have would be alleviated, but the game developers are beating around the bush still trying to figure out a overly complicated way to temporarily resolve our issues, which ironically will create more issues.

[WoW]

I agree, vote up^^ A buff of 25% acc would do pet jobs wonders (Since run wild is not being adjusted).

I actually like the idea of dd-oriented pets. Alot of the older jugs are dated, as it pertains to their dd capabilities. Hobs and NN (And they are both beast :( ) will be the only serviceable dd, but the kahmir sheep should be superior to her. The Sabotender has 1k needles; 1k dmg was a big deal back in the day, but most pets easily surpass 1k dmg moves. Unless they plan on giving the coeurl, sabotender, beetle, etc with their recent native abilities, SE might as well released newer pets.

I mean, the difference between sharp strike/death scissors and any Xerin (Cahpuli) ability is huge. A wivre would trump any capped lizard jug we have in the dd department. An uncapped gooey gerad would not fly in this day and age; its' moves are all debuffs. A sandworm would be a more potent amorph. The leech took reduced blunt damage, but no-one invites us to tank and he was a sub-par dd. A scorpion is vastly superior to any capped vermin. Also, Ruszors would must likely beat out any capped aquan (Mostly crabs, anyway).

I am all in on your sentiments and new pets^^

[Olor]

A lot of the ideas the development team has for pets jobs is a good start, but after playing FFXi for over 10 years, I'm beginning to notice that the development team has a hard time implementing fixes that actually have positive long term effects. For example, Mochi (pet food) is great, but if the game goes on for another 2~5 years, and the level cap increases again, then pet jobs will be in the same place that we were before with accuracy issues then they'll have to add another high tier mochi. What we need are fixes that resolves the issue forever, and not something that just helps for a year then we're back in the same place we started. I hate to beat a dead horse, but if they would simply just allow the original suggestion of this thread to be implemented, most of the problems pet jobs have would be alleviated, but the game developers are beating around the bush still trying to figure out a overly complicated way to temporarily resolve our issues, which ironically will create more issues.

Yes. This, thank you! That's the biggest problem with using food with pet stats and jugs to fix our problems. We need the devs to adjust the baselines for these jobs - not just add gear and items to sort of half fix problems. I really think that simply removing level caps from jugs and making beast affinity add levels over the base item level would do wonders. Then BST would always have a pet 10 levels above the highest current ilevel, and our pets could actually hit things maybe, and hit them half decently hard. Right now my underskilled banish on whm does more damage to yumcax than my pet... that's broken.

I'd like to see all gear that pup/bst/smn/drg can wear include pet stats. Don't take away stats from the master so that we can have them for pets. We should be able to wear same strength gear as everyone else WITH stats for our pets. Our pets are part of our base damage. No other jobs have 15-60+% of their damage dealing capabilities unbuffed by gear or magic. Why should we? Realistically it would be best if all gear stats simply applied to pets then SE could get rid of pet+ stats altogether. We know that is not going to happen though so at the very least we need a WIDE ARRAY of gear with +pet stats on it, and that gear should not be sacrificing stats for the master to make it work.

And I am so mad that SE missed the opportunity afforded by the wildskeeper augment system to offer pet jobs a chance to add pet stats to their DD gear. Every crest should have had 1 pet stat available... most people would not have used it, sure, but would have been nice for those of us who like to play pet jobs. We really have no gear options that are half decent for pet and master - gosh would have been nice to add +3% pet haste or something to my otomi helm...

[Telford]

This comment was extremely vague but it sounds as though the development team is considering revamping the maneuver system but exactly what they are doing is up to interpretation... Extending maneuver duration or allowing us to use more than 3 maneuvers so that we can activate more attachments at a time are all possibilities, but I strongly doubt that they would do either of those things.

I believe all that Camate is saying is that with all the ws's being equal in strength it won't be as vital that we have the right maneuvers up to trigger the one good ws, instead we can focus on maneuvers that enhance our attachments.

[Olor]

Thump. I'd like more details on plans to improve pet jobs.

[dasva]

Simple fix that fixes the actual issues and therefore wont need another patch in a few weeks is either allowing at least partial transfer of stats and/or letting pt/AoE buffs hit pets. As well as uncapping pets so we actually have a selection. Which has been said a billion times and needs to be done. Random pet food just fills the gap for a time maybe same with adjusting the jugs occasional and occasionally giving us new ones.

[WoW]

It has to be incredible Olor I will tell you that^^

Perhaps the August update will address pet jobs, they are prepping for the July update, so basically, Sams, rngs, and mnks will be the golden children for at least another month, perhaps longer XD.

I have been asking for an update that ends our agony and finally puts us in a good place, but others attacked the post and loved the mini-fixes. It would be ideal if this update fixed our current issues. Sure $hit happens and the future and adjustments must be made, but our issues can be fixed now. I am not implying that bst, pup, or drg will be perfect jobs til the end of XI, but rather, right now. Boost us so we can compete right now. The mini fixes are baffling to me; we all know the obstacles pet jobs face, lets address them. I mean damn, it took one update to break sams XD; how about one update that fixes us^^

I am particularly interested in the ready move boost. Bst pet's have a plethora of issues, notably acc, attack and ready move dmg. If the ready move boost is extremely potent, I could deal with our current guys. However, i highly doubt that sweeping gouge, headbutt, or any chapuli move can even reach 5k on endgame crap. Droopy rarely breaks 3k in ARII from my personal experience.

Honestly, I do not believe an extra 1 or 2k to ready move dmg would help us, considering the ready meter restrictions. It has to be substantial imo,other dds are not only doing great ws dmg, but skillchaining as-well. I still believe that beast affinity should be a master and pet skillchain XD. That merit category makes absolutely no sense. The gloves and merits should probably increase damage by 2 percent each merit or something. Also, we are the only job that require players to level the pet, not only that, but we do not have access to every pet faimily. Bst is also the only pet job whom merits do not directly effect the pet's dmg output. Imo, the update has to to be pretty amazing to fix bst. Ready moves are only one aspect of the jug; it has to hit the mob to achieve 1000 tp, but those hits are extremely weak and inaccurate. Imo, the pet may have to equate or surpass the master as it pertains to normal attacks and ws damage. No one will invite a bst because we can receive food, songs, or protect; mnks, rngs, and sams will still have an edge as it pertains to dd output and/or skillchain damage. We need an update that will fix our current issues once and for all; akin to the one update that caused these necessary adjustments.

With the recent weaponskill update, bst could receive everything the OP mentioned and still be a sub-par dd. Ready moves are fairly weak in general, regardless of how much attack/acc you stack. Bst needs something much more drastic imo, times have changed. Bard songs, protect, and food will not compete with 20k weaponskills plus skillchain dmg. Mnks can even repetitively chain with one another in delve crap. Jugs need a re-haul; capped or 119; our jugs are horrible regardless.

[WoW]

Also, as it pertains to uncapping jugs, I would it would be awesome if we could receive some stronger past jugs in their native forms. A hippo that could fantod > hoof volley like those hippos in the past would be pretty sweet and doable. Perhaps put it on a proc system; with a decent rate. Our past jugs were awesome on paper, just not in jug form. Too many missing abilities.

I am sort of glad sams broke $hit, perhaps this will be a turning point for pet jobs. They thought we would be broken with powerful pets until sams came along wrecking havoc now we all need updates; even wars, damn XD.

[Railer]

Can we get eminent pet food also.Thanks

[Olor]

Can we get eminent pet food also.Thanks

This. If every other job that uses consumbles can get them for free with sparks, we should be able to get jugs and pet food too.

[Moppet]

It's also hard not to get frustrated when the new attachments finally come out and they are craft only and require an item that is in demand for other uses.

Vanir battery is sitting around 3m, and crafters have set the price of the new attachments to 3m-4m despite the x3 yield.

So the answer is food that only barely brings automatons into the range where they should be? Great, we get to pay even more gil to sort of be viable?

That's not even considering the various methods of losing food effects requiring you to use more expensive food.

Can we have some more quests to upgrade the automaton frames?

Some upgraded heads that have better AI? Such as being able to deploy ranged/caster autos well outside AoE.

Or really any of the stuff that Shinron has suggested.

[Olor]

It's also hard not to get frustrated when the new attachments finally come out and they are craft only and require an item that is in demand for other uses.

Vanir battery is sitting around 3m, and crafters have set the price of the new attachments to 3m-4m despite the x3 yield.

So the answer is food that only barely brings automatons into the range where they should be? Great, we get to pay even more gil to sort of be viable?





Yeah I haven't taken out my PUP in ages because it's frustrating enough playing one entirely broken job, and PUP requires SO MUCH GIL and at the end of it... sadness as it simply isn't desirable in almost any content.... So my PUP, while 99, is really not geared up and skilled up because I can't do that to myself. SE really needs to give pet jobs a break from single-handedly maintaining the crafting economy. Sometimes it feels like we're just about the only jobs that make crafters rich anymore.

[Mitruya]

The only gil I spend on my PUP is the materials for reforging, and since sparks come so slow I've been able to spread it out. (it isn't just crafters making a killing here)
I only bought a few stacks of Shiromochi and Akamochi out of curiosity but really don't have a use for them solo. (Maybe I should tackle a VE AA ... it sure didn't help me in Doh gates -_- )
I haven't bothered to buy the new attachments. Why spend that much on a job that can't participate in anything?
But yeah, if you are new to the job and trying to catch up, I can't imagine. Though I noticed that with attachments floating up in flotsam now, a lot of stuff has gone down in price.

[Shinron-PUP]

Although Puppetmaster has been getting a lot of reworking over the last few years like the complete overhaul of the mage frame's AI, Puppetmaster is still a pretty undesired job even after sinking a lot of money into it like Mitruya, Olor, and Moppet have said already. I mean I have literally every item a puppetmaster could want: Kenkonken (mythic), Verethragna, All attachments, all reforged sets, and honestly I still cannot keep up with the demand of high level content these days. I will say that damage wise I can usually keep up with the monks or even out DD them depending on the person, but damage isn't so much the issue for the master in comparison to survival.

The "master" component of Puppetmaster, a lot like the masters of other pet jobs, can damage deal fairly well, but simply just miss the defensive capabilities of normal classes like Monk's counterstance and or high HP that help them stay alive while monsters are spamming deadly AoEs. I believe that with pet jobs, there is slightly a little bit too much emphasis on Job abilities that focus simply on the survival of the pet rather than both the master and the pet. Puppetmaster does not have a single ability that helps to keep the master alive, so we're essentially Damage dealing like any other job can but without all of the survival capabilities, which is useless if you end up getting floored in the first two minutes of fighting a high level content monster. Honestly this is the story of my life when playing Puppetmaster in delve. I always end up tanking because no one can keep up with my damage, but I end up floored in the next couple of minutes because of my small HP pool and lack of defense and job abilities that could mitigate some of the damage.

Another concern that makes the survival of the master difficult ties to the stigma around pet jobs. A lot of the time if I show up to delve on my Puppetmaster, because most players assume that most pet jobs players are pretty useless, most of the white mages will prioritize curing me last over one of the more "essential" jobs like Monk although I'm tanking and dealing more damage than they are. Unfortunately this isn't something that the developement team can directly fix, but I think it's only fair that they make it easier for us to survive on our own granted we have a lot of difficulties getting help from our party members.


If the masters of pet jobs could get access to similiar defensive capabilities that standard damage dealers have, I believe that would partly solve some of our issues we face in high level content.

Another problem that Puppetmaster is currently facing right now is the fact that our Automatons are getting outdated as the game progresses. Automatons at 99 (before Ilvl gear and 119) were a pretty decent reflection of the 99 version of the job that they were geared as, but now with the introduction of 119 armor, all of our automatons have fallen behind damage wise comparatively.

The pet that I would like to emphasis is Black mage (Spirit Reaver). This pet has fallen behind for multiple reasons, but the biggest problem is the AI. The blackmage frame has a static timer for when each spells can be used that can amount to the frame casting elemental magic at the least every 15 seconds or so. However sometimes you can be waiting for up to 30 seconds or more for one elemental spell. Standard Black Mages have already been angry about the static 2~3 second wait between each elemental magic spell that has lowered their dps considerably, so when thinking about only casting every 15 seconds, the black mage frames dps seems pretty undesirable. Literally the only way to fix Mage Automaton's AI so that it can actually be of some use in fast paced battle fields is to allow us to have manual execution of magic spells which in other words would mean allowing us to pick the spells our automatons can use out of a magic list similar to how Black Mage can. The automaton could still function on its own the same way it does now, but allowing us to control when and what its next spell is would put this frame back on the map. Magic manual execution for automatons isn't a foreign idea. The development team actually said that they planned to look into doing this about three years ago, but suddenly any information related to this disappeared. I posted their comment some time back in this thread, but I can do it again if people would like to see it.

By addings manual execution, it would allow Puppetmasters to actually use our frames in a more strategic way during group content rather than us hoping that the next spell our pet casts is a cure rather than slow, when we're about to die. This would also make it easier to cast desired spells without having certain maneuvers up. We could even get a larger array of spells such as gravity, bind, and even the new ones like flurry, frazzle, and distract that would allow us to be a desired job when needing a debuffer.

[Mitruya]

Thank you for your thorough and well-written posts, that explain things so much better than I can.
That being said, I'm jealous you get to go to anything as PUP. ;p
I'd been wondering if I got all the things you already have would it make a difference; it doesn't sound like it. I've been slacking on farming gil and sparks to finish the reforging, 'cause all I'd really get is a new (old) costume.

[Puck]

Out of curiosity, do all you PUPs know of and use ADD (Activate-Deploy-Deactivate) with your mage puppets? It's a really handy trick that SE thankfully never took away from us... possibly because taking it away would totally kill the utility of mage frames and screw us royally, and they know PUP is still at the bottom of the heap. I'm just wondering how many new PUPs are aware of it.

[Shinron-PUP]

Thank you for your thorough and well-written posts, that explain things so much better than I can.
That being said, I'm jealous you get to go to anything as PUP. ;p
I'd been wondering if I got all the things you already have would it make a difference; it doesn't sound like it. I've been slacking on farming gil and sparks to finish the reforging, 'cause all I'd really get is a new (old) costume.

I do participate in all end game content on Puppetmaster, but I don't think it has anything to do with my gear. It's probably because I create my own groups for things like delve and I also refuse to play any other job but the one I like. I think any Puppetmaster, including you, is capable of playing the job in whatever content, but you just have to be willing to create your own groups and deal with your shortcomings as a damage dealer in comparison to just simply having a monk. The sad truth is that no gear currently in the game for Puppetmaster can really fix those shortcomings. I'd say that the only piece of armor for puppetmaster that is a game changer is the mythic hand-to-hand Kenkonken because it allows you to essentially use maneuvers as much as you want without the worry and need for gear swapping in overload reduction gear. Cooldown and overload reduction gear does eliminate the worry of overloading to some extent, but the mythic makes it so that it's essentially impossible to overload. Other than kenkonken, really the game play for a Puppetmaster without fancy gear is about the same that of one with excellent armor. Attachments play a large role of course in playing style, but most attachments except for like damage gauge, armor plates, and barrier module, you can survive without. Other attachments are useful but they don't dramatically change Puppetmaster however. So long story short, there's nothing we can do at the moment to allow us to be viable options in high level content. We simply just need a update to maneuver mechanics, pet survival, master survival, attachments, automaton AI, along with a couple other issues.



Out of curiosity, do all you PUPs know of and use ADD (Activate-Deploy-Deactivate) with your mage puppets? It's a really handy trick that SE thankfully never took away from us... possibly because taking it away would totally kill the utility of mage frames and screw us royally, and they know PUP is still at the bottom of the heap. I'm just wondering how many new PUPs are aware of it.

I believe some Puppetmasters are aware of DAD but i'm not sure if all are. Back at 75 using DAD was a necessity because it would take years for our black mage automaton to cast a nuke, so it would be easier to reset it so that it would nuke faster. I actually still do that today because the blackmage auto takes forever to nuke still. DAD is and was definitely a better way to regenerate the MP pool because using Mana converter and Economizer had its risks of overload and losing HP. I think the possible reason why DAD has not been removed is because your pet must be at 100% HP in order for you to use the technique which can be extremely difficult to maintain when you're facing NMs that spam poison and other AoEs. Also they haven't abolished it because they don't want the activate timer to automatically reset to 20 minutes if your pet despawns when you zone somewhere, otherwise it would put us at a disadvantage when we enter a battlefield. I'm also curious if players are aware of the uses of ventriloquy. If a monster aggros you, as long as you don't touch it you can use ventriloquy and deactivate to despawn it. I usually do that any time I aggro something that I can't handle like a strong NM. A lot of the tricks like DAD essentially giving you infinite MP is why I fell in love with Puppetmaster to begin with because it was one of the few jobs that could exceed limitations that standard jobs faced. Unfortunately a lot of those tricks like DAD and Ventriloquy got nurfed and people aren't aware that they existed at one point.

[Mitruya]

Yes, I know of Ventriloquy and DAD, and thank you for your thoughts and comments.

[Moppet]

Out of curiosity, do all you PUPs know of and use ADD (Activate-Deploy-Deactivate) with your mage puppets? It's a really handy trick that SE thankfully never took away from us... possibly because taking it away would totally kill the utility of mage frames and screw us royally, and they know PUP is still at the bottom of the heap. I'm just wondering how many new PUPs are aware of it.

Yep, I'm aware of it. I still use it in special cases or to refresh MP when needed. Most of the content now includes a heavy amount of AoEs though, so it's considerably less useful.

I would kill for an AI change or JA that made mage autos run -away- from the target to it's maximum casting range. >.<

[Balloon]

Yep, I'm aware of it. I still use it in special cases or to refresh MP when needed. Most of the content now includes a heavy amount of AoEs though, so it's considerably less useful.

I would kill for an AI change or JA that made mage autos run -away- from the target to it's maximum casting range. >.<

I've always liked the idea of giving automatons a stance that means they're engaged to you, rather than a monster, faster recast times for cures, enhancing magic and forcing them to stand 20" away from you, and not 19" away from the target, at all times.

For the RDM frame, this would stop it doing crappy nukes.

[Shinron-PUP]

I've always liked the idea of giving automatons a stance that means they're engaged to you

Do you mean allowing a Automaton to be engaged outside of battle? I tried to suggest this a long time ago in the puppetmaster forums as a means of allowing our pets to buff us outside of battle. It seems sort of illogical to have access to protect, shell, haste, and stoneskin, but not be able to put it on until you're in the middle of fighting. Either a job ability that makes our pets use buffs outside of battle or allowing them to naturally use buffs outside of battle similar to adventuring fellows would be nice.


forcing them to stand 20" away from you, and not 19" away from the target, at all times.


I would really like to see the development team allow our mage frames and Ranger pet to be engaged farther away from enemies. Right now it's difficult to engage our pets outside of AoE range especially because they keep extending the radius of AoEs of certain enemies which can be disruptive when you're trying to use DAD (deactive-Activate-Deactivate). Although it might seem weird, extending deploy and casting range for automatons to a distance like 25~30 yalms away I think would be fair especially because it's harder for us to constantly re-position our pets like normal players can to avoid staying out of AoE range. This would also eliminate the struggle between what range of deploy your pet will run in to fight and what range of deploy your pet will stand still.

[WoW]

Not sure what is going on on other servers, but on asura, jug prices have dropped big time; notably the bird and rabbit. Ibuki is @55k atm.

[Ramzi]

yeah 60k/stack on shiva too. Akaso must have really come down- was selling for 30k each when I first started making those jugs.

[Mitruya]

Akaso pops up in rank 7 groves occasionally. Perhaps more are being found/harvested?

[WoW]

Akaso pops up in rank 7 groves occasionally. Perhaps more are being found/harvested?

Good point^^

[Railer]

Not letting the thread die^

[Olor]

Not letting the thread die^

Ditto. I want to know more about how lolfood and lolnewjugsthatcostamint are going to fix BST.

[ZoMBie343]

Also bump.

[dasva]

Ditto. I want to know more about how lolfood and lolnewjugsthatcostamint are going to fix BST.

Especially when we are still basically being limited to only 1 or 2 for every situation. You'd never see them make a satchet that just said earth and wind avatars lv 119 or an animator that said storm walker frame lvl 119. Yet that is basically what they are doing to bst and seem to plan on continuing to do

[WoW]

Does not matter imo; SE will strip the jugs down rendering 1 or 2 useful anyway. Most players use the most damaging jugs for dd/pt situations, the only damaging jugs I recall are hobs, NN, falcorr (To some extent), and lars. The eft was decent, but the majority were not in their strongest form. This is inexcusable: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Crafty_Clyvonne. I am pretty sure coeurls have pounce and frenzied rage, but two moves? Really? Here is their second chance to make this right; http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Bloodclaw_Shasra. Wow.......

Imo, the hq versions of each jug should be released from now on. There is no use releasing nq monsters whom posse weaker moves; why do you continue to do this SE? If there are plans for another coeurl, it should be collared with frenzied rage, pounce, and preternatural gleam, adamantoise should be the ones with testudo tremor, crabs should be the barnacle variation with megascissors/venom shower, apkallu should be an inguza with whiteout, etc. Like 5 crabs, same model, one should have been the barnacle variations.

If any of the future or brand new jugs are introduced in their nq form as it pertains to the moves available, I am certain not much thought or effort goes into our jugs. I am in wait and see mode atm, hopefully they get it right (Doubt it).

[Balloon]

More CourrierCarrier!

As in.. unique looking models, not more crabs.

[Railer]

Would be nice to have mobs similar level to woh gates mobs outside.

[WoW]

More CourrierCarrier!

As in.. unique looking models, not more crabs.

Unless it is a craklaw^^ but yes, no more repeats unless they are mind-blowing, but even then, there are better monsters out there.

The new monster trend appears to be those special strikers with stun, etc; release some of those. There are awesome mobs roaming SoA areas, SE chose poor monsters (As usual).

[Demonjustin]

Personally I'd like a new Falcorr ;;

I don't play BST often, but he's been my favorite pet when I've taken the time to play it on my friend's character. A new, high level or uncapped Falcorr would be nice, I miss being able to use my most faithful of pets. D:

[WoW]

^^I hear ya, but I am with a few others on this; there are so many great unreleased jugs out there^^ I would not mind are few repeats personally, lynx are actually good pets, but SE screwed em over. If they do release repeats, hopefully there are hq sub-species (But I prefer brand new jugs).

I would like a Yztarg; heavy hitters and their normal attacks stun, reduce tp by 200, and inflict defense down. One of the better if not best beast mobs out there, but SE will most likely release another sheep :(; Book it. Don't get me wrong, I was all in on the new sheep, but iirc, their most damaging move is %hp based which equates to instant removal. Of course they could adjust it. I would not mind a sheep because they have zerk, but they will not not be my first choice out of the entire beast family (Or second nor third for that matter, lol); there are much better un-released beast out there.

But, yea, falcorr was one of the better pets because the players picked it, surprise!!!^^ :)

Wish he had hoof volley tho :(.

[Olor]

I feel very starved for some BST love right now... come on developers! Pet jobs are super underpowered...

[WoW]

Well, since SE has not intent on fixing the root of the issue; they could just use the pet food as a substitute for the lack of songs or pet buffs. Somewhere I mentioned XIV -esque food; multiple buffs on one food, they appear to be listening because one akamochi has attack and accuracy enchantments on them. Imo,there is some serious potential with this mochi stuff. A higher tier mochi with say +28% attack, acc, and defense for the pet should solve our most of our issues. Now, throw us some better jugs and we should be set.

SE is making this extremely difficult; we all know the issues pet jobs face, just nip it in the butt so some of us can play our favorite jobs. Bst and perhaps several other pet jobs (Minus smn) have been unplayable for years now; unacceptable. I am in wait and see mode atm.

[Railer]

Here is a joke why don't the devs take a relic samurai, beastmaster and a blumage into woh gates and run a parse. Did that earlier, my pet and I (with shiromchi +1) could barley hit the worms while the samurai was soloing worms by him self. Made me feel ridiculous with my 119 beastmaster full pet build(aknkusa +1 head, body, legs, regimine mitts, totemic+1 feet with all the pet accessories). Even with Familared rabbit was no where near the dmg acc that the sam was pulling. I came in a stong last after spending months working on my beast. It's just plain silly.( I play on xbox so I didn't really run a parse I just got the guys to try getting some job points.)

[Mefuki]

Post #457

I can vouch for that. I was the BLU in the aforementioned party. I had read on BGforums about Fudo being powerful but I hadn't experienced it until last night. I occasionally got a good WS or SC off but generally the 119 SAM had killed a worm solo in the time it took for two food eating, gearset changing 119 BST+BLU to bring one to MAYBE 50%. We're talking generally 4-5K Fudos with 7-8K SC. On very toughs. It was ridiculous.

[Mitruya]

This tells me that any buff to pet jobs or BLU being overpowered is complete bullsh*t.

I started to write out a bunch of rants but I guess I should wait and see what August brings.

[Olor]

Job adjustments include NOTHING for BST. So much for making us stronger. I guess we just have to wait another month. Or two. Or six. Or eight.

[dev1225]


This tells me that any buff to pet jobs or BLU being overpowered is complete bullsh*t.

I started to write out a bunch of rants but I guess I should wait and see what August brings.

For BLU maybe a bit of help (now you'll be able to get a worm to 50% by yourself in the time a SAM kills one, maybe!) For BST - august brings nothing.

[Mitruya]

Yeah, strange not to see mention of the new jugs or the promised pet job adjustments (for DPS) at all. I thought that was all said to be coming in August?

[Balloon]

Pet Job fixes encompasses three different jobs, four if you count SMN.

I can see it getting its own thread, at least I hope so.

As for beast pets, yeah, that should have been included.

[Olor]

Pet Job fixes encompasses three different jobs, four if you count SMN.

I can see it getting its own thread, at least I hope so.

As for beast pets, yeah, that should have been included.

We can hope but since PUP was included in the other job adjustments... seems pretty bleak. I guess they just figure we should continue to pay subs for several months while waiting to see what tiny, mediocre, incremental change our jobs will get next.

[WoW]

At this point, I am just waiting for monstrosity updates; rather stomp around on some buffed beastly monsters doing useless crap as opposed to synthing half @$$ed rabbits doing useless crap. Much more enjoyable on Mon I will tell you that much^^

[Mitruya]

Yeah ... not sure yet whether to be excited about the PUPdate, but I really, really want to be a Khimaira. Monstrosity is a nice change of pace so I do hope they keep it going.

[Olor]

Still no love for BST? Tis a shame.

[Jinzha]

Is anyone else disappointed that none of the pet job classes got included on the Max HP Bonus job trait? I can understand that it might have been a bit untraditional to add pet classes to max hp bonus for lore purposes; however, by giving essentially every other damage dealer except for pet jobs max HP bonus, it's just another reason for players not to invite us because of the large difference between our HP pools. In a game where there is so much emphasis in overpowered-one shot AoE attacks, I think we're entitled to additional HP if we're expected to be fighting up close.

[Mitruya]

Yes I am, I really thought PUP/BST/DRG (or maybe just DRG) would get that.

[Balloon]

August Pets Hide the effect shown when pets are preparing to use their special ability

Finally, we're fixed, can't wait for all the new party invites!

[Shinron-PUP]

It wasn't exactly my plan to bump this thread, however, for the sake of not having to create a new thread, I thought I'd just use this one. I just wanted to provide some quick numbers based on the changes to accuracy and ranged accuracy of Automatons in the October Update.

Valor Edge X-900 Head and Frame (PLD)

Accuracy Before Update: 753
Accuracy After Update: 844
Overall change: 91

Sharpshot Z-500 Head and Frame (RNG)

Accuracy Before Update: 719
Accuracy After Update: 810
Overall change: 91

Ranged Accuracy Before Update: 759
Ranged Accuracy After Update: 851
Overall Change: 92
*All accuracy and ranged accuracy was checked when the automaton had no attachments equipped and the Automaton's ILvl was 119.

So it's safe to say that about 90 accuracy was added to automatons when at level 119. This accuracy change is slightly higher than I anticipated the developers would add, but I still don't believe that it's enough. At our current accuracy level we will still need to use Accuracy food and armor that grants accuracy and ranged accuracy to be able to hit efficiently in high level content. Using food isn't really that bad, but needing to use pet accuracy armor will ultimately force us to sacrifice armor that could help with our own damage and accuracy over our pets.

If anyone could provide information on the accuracy, ranged accuracy, and magic accuracy changes for Dragoon, Avatar, and Beastmaster pets, it would be great to know.

[Railer]

Just popped Lizard jug naked with 119 axe (have 4 cp in pet acc.) Unsure what stats was before update.
Sheep 829
lizard 780
beetle 867
fish 880
shroom 890

[Eital]

Got on SMN this morning and checked out Avatar accuracy. I /think/ Glyphic Bracers was the only piece I had on that supplied Pet: Acc and with them I had around 944. I think before the update I was sitting around 840 or 850 but I don't recall.

[Olor]

so... basically pathetic.... sigh. Thanks for nothing SE.

[Camiie]

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but when I go out and solo on my BST in a zone like Marjami I find that my pet's damage is far below my own, and I'm not going out there with attack buffs or even food. My point is that not only did they not sufficiently address accuracy, they failed to address pet attack/damage. Even if they do hit more frequently, there is no way a pet that barely hits in the triple digits on a random EP mob is going to meaningfully contribute against a max level NM.

[Olor]

No, you aren't doing anything wrong. BST is supposed to suck apparently.

[Dorgon]

I wonder why they don't give pets the same AoE damage reduction that pets have in FFXIV. I mean that wouldn't really help the problems I read about but it is something.

[Olor]

I wonder why they don't give pets the same AoE damage reduction that pets have in FFXIV. I mean that wouldn't really help the problems I read about but it is something.

It would actually help a lot. Then, at the very least, we could participate in some more of the content if anyone wanted to bring our subpar DDing to anything... meh.