WHM Regen > SCH Regen...?

[Demonjustin]

So, a while back we were told SCH was being changed into the 'over time' job so to say, a job where doing things over a period of time would be a focus and the main aspect of the job. When this happened Helix was changed to be more dependant on Dark Arts, Regen was changed to be amazing with Light Arts, Tabula Rasa gained access to two new spells which both heavily focused on 'over time' aspects, and it was accepted as this job's role.

Now, all that being said, WHM has once again stepped on SCH's toes...



SCH has Regen V, it starts at 40, with Light Arts it goes up to 64.

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/images/c/c7/Svnt._Bonnet_%2B2_description.png
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/images/4/4b/21111_description.png

These increase it to 79 together.

The duration is a full 108 seconds before Perpetuance and can be extended to something like 270 seconds(4 and a half minutes) with Perpetuance.

SCH finishes at 79 Regen, 4 and a half minutes Duration.



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WHM has Regen IV, it starts at 30, with Merits it goes up to 35.

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/images/4/4b/21111_description.png
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/images/c/ce/Marduk%27s_Tiara_%2B1_description.png
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/images/d/d9/26805_description.png

These increase it to 79 together.

The duration is a full 60 seconds.

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/images/2/26/Orison_Mitts_%2B2_description.png
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/images/d/d5/Theo._Pant._%2B1_description.png

These increase it to 96 seconds.



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In the end, SCH has at best 79 Regen & a 270 Second duration. WHM has at best 79 Regen & a 98 Second duration. While the duration is much lower for a WHM, the potency is tied... WHM has Cure Skin, it has insanely cheap Cures, it has AoE barspells, boost spells, Cure spells, and so on, the job is strong enough. There is no reason I can think of that WHM should be now tying or beating SCH in Regen, yet unless the WHM Hands get a minor upgrade and the SCH Head a major one from the Empyrean upgrades SCH will barely be ahead.

Up till this point, Regen has been the primary reason to bring a SCH as a healer rather than a WHM. Right now, this gear is blurring the lines between their Regen and at the same time making SCH fall out of it's only true place. Sure SCH has Regen from Embrava but that's nothing to live by since it's an effect only gained around 5 minutes of any given hour. At the same time the duration factor can be easily overlooked in the end when it comes to normal spells due to the fact the duration falls into place with the Accession Recast from /SCH, which makes this very easy to maintain at almost all times.

[Sasaraixx]

I was actually thinking about this the other day. I saw how much gear my WHM has to enhance Regen and I wondered if they matched SCH. It's a bit sad to see that the potency is tied.

To be fair, I guess we would have to add in SCH's job point enhancement. (Assuming anyone will grind those out.)

At the end of the day I don't think it's a huge deal given how much SCH's duration dwarfs WHM. It does seem silly that WHM is able to match the potency with a lower tier spell given that this is supposed to be SCH's niche. Hopefully the reforged AF3 hat will have a large boost to potency and more duration+ gear.

[Herby]

the Piety Briault is actually a % increase, so no SCH stays King of Regen

[Trumpy]

I barely use regen anymore as it wears off before it seems to have done anything on my whm. I seemed to remember regen lasting longer back in the day, or maybe the lower tiers do?

[Eric]

I hardly ever see WHMs cast regen anymore, and whenever they do, they're always trying to overwrite my Regen V with their Regen IV....

Either way, I think SCH should've gotten more Regen enhancing gear as WHM gets more and more.

[Trumpy]

Sch might if they ever reforge empy armor

[Jerbob]

Firstly, I'm fairly sure "Regen+X" gear is percent based, as Herby says, so WHM regen is not nearly that potent.

I think it's really important to point out that the regen spell line is in desperate need of revitalisation for all jobs except SCH at the moment. With the changes to the cure formula and enmity, in conjunction with ubiquitous two-hit-KO moves, all of regen's former benefits - low enmity, low cost and slow healing for non-tanking party members - have been effectively cancelled out for jobs without the light arts bonuses. These new gear bonuses to regen - while welcome - are simply a scaling measure made to compensate for the trainwreck that is the item level system.

Regen potency and duration need to be significantly increased for all jobs that can cast it, before gear. It should be changed to scale with enhancing magic skill. Preferably it should also be adjusted so that HP restoration ticks don't happen when they're not needed; this would go a long way to fixing efficiency problems. Once regen's efficiency starts to rise significantly above that of cure - including consideration of "wasted" ticks, if the aforementioned adjustment isn't made - then things will start balancing out and people can start complaining about regen.

I understand SCH's professed mastery of regen alongside other over time effects, but frankly I think this should be the last thing to consider when planning regen changes. These spells are almost useless for the other three jobs that can use them - and of all jobs, SCH should not be a barrier to the fixing of an entire line of spells, let alone a job to complain about other jobs muscling in on their territory.

[Calatilla]

If SE really want regen to be a SCH thing they need to give WHM a different merit option other than regen potency. Saying that no WHM really uses regen for the same reason a SCH does. Tied with Embrava a regen V would almost eliminate the need for cures unless a DD took a really big hit. WHM has never been at this point as far as regens have been concerned.

[Rwolf]

Regen spells are far from useless to me. I use them very often, especially on WHM/SCH for AoE Regen IV with all the current regen gear except the club + merits as a method of damage mitigation. If anything, I'd agree the MP cost is a tad high on the higher tiers for what it does. I agree with their desire of keeping SCH as the king of healing over time. WHM has a ton of things over SCH already between stoneskin healing, potent barspells, boost spells which are way higher than SCH storm with merits, status curing speed/stona, and divine caress to block -na spell enfeebles entirely.

If anything new on WHM, I'd like to see them get back to WHM's efficiency of spells. All of their ga spells have always been highly efficient. I'd like to finally see Hastega and Regenra tiers instead.

[Jerbob]

The thing is, before the cure formula changes and gear additions, Regen was already a White Mage's solution to efficient single-target healing. It is lunacy to revoke that functionality just so SCH can profess some mastery over a certain field of spellcasting.

SCH struggled to find a niche when it was introduced simply because it didn't bring anything new to the table, practically speaking. This was a problem with the job's concept and design. I have no problem with SCH having something it is good at, but purloining a field of expertise at the expense of other jobs isn't acceptable. SCH's self-professed status as a master in all things over-time is damaging for other jobs because their tools are being overlooked as a consequence.

[Damane]

The thing is, before the cure formula changes and gear additions, Regen was already a White Mage's solution to efficient single-target healing. It is lunacy to revoke that functionality just so SCH can profess some mastery over a certain field of spellcasting.

SCH struggled to find a niche when it was introduced simply because it didn't bring anything new to the table, practically speaking. This was a problem with the job's concept and design. I have no problem with SCH having something it is good at, but purloining a field of expertise at the expense of other jobs isn't acceptable. SCH's self-professed status as a master in all things over-time is damaging for other jobs because their tools are being overlooked as a consequence.

you could flip this and say why afflatus solace isnt useable by SCH and other jobs when subbign whm, just because cureing is WHM niche market... whm has atm the monopoly on healing, i think rather then giving whm more SE should give RDMs and SCHs more to come closer to WHM. good start would be to make afflatus solace work as a sub and give SCH and RDM cure V.

[Jerbob]

The difference is that other jobs with cure spells can use them effectively without Afflatus Solace. Regen spells are intended to be low-enmity, MP and time-efficient healing, and they simply aren't any longer! They need to be returned to their former glory for all jobs that cast them. The only reason that SCH is involved at all in the discussion is that it stands in the way of this by virtue of its professed mastery, which I maintain is absurd and, ultimately, damaging.

[Damane]

The difference is that other jobs with cure spells can use them effectively without Afflatus Solace. Regen spells are intended to be low-enmity, MP and time-efficient healing, and they simply aren't any longer! They need to be returned to their former glory for all jobs that cast them. The only reason that SCH is involved at all in the discussion is that it stands in the way of this by virtue of its professed mastery, which I maintain is absurd and, ultimately, damaging.

do you have any idea how much of an advantage afflatus solace stoneskin gives on cures for whm over any other job that *could cure*? I am sorry I refuse to give anything to whm, when sch and rdm are so far behind in terms of cureing, especially RDM.

[Tetsujin]

I think it's good that WHM regen is getting some love -- the original effects need to be scaled up to meet the higher item level standards blah blah etc etc. In that regard, I do hope that SCH does pull ahead with either a serious Job Point upgrade to Regen potency (rather than duration) or maybe some nice gear options.

[Einalem]

For me, SCH is about layering effects. I like subbing RDM for Phalanx because it helps my Regens do more.
If there is something to complain about on the SCH Regen curing front, it's that you can't Modus Veritas a Regen :p

I think Regens should have a noticeably lower Cast time than Direct cures, personally, because that's the kind of effect they are. A band-aid that stems the blood flow while you prep some real Curing.