red ninja needs buffs, badly.

[Andylynn]

after 3 nasty bird parties, i've come to the conclusion, low to mid level ninja sucks. we suck it up til 37, wasting cash on shihei, only to fall behind in comparison in damage dealing. whoever thought ninja was supposed to be a designated tank at low levels was not very bright.

-tried spamming debuffs/wheel. got way too expensive, didn't do too much to keep aggro.
-tried tanking with yonin, i couldnt hit for crap
-tried a combo of the two + evasion gear, i still got hit way too much!

why must lower level gear subtract one for the other, when i want to try and actually evade a damn monster, when i hit it does hardly anything. and when i try vice versa, it ends up eating shadows. this game needs to make up its mind, either give us better tanking equipment, or give us skills to relegate us to roles other than peoples moneyslaving tanks.

if i am to remain a low level tank, i would appreciate better gear, and more job abilities made for retaining emnity, because burning this much shihei just to be a near useless partymate is obnoxious. i dont want to have to wait til 75+ or soloing EPs in order to evade deftly. nor do i want to wait til then to do decent damage either.

[Malamasala]

if i am to remain a low level tank

That is the wonderful part of FFXI. You won't remain low level for long.

[wish12oz]

I didn't have any problems holding hate or not dieing when I leveled ninja in 2004/2005. You have much more to work with now, it should be easy. I blame player error, if you spent less time pretending to be awesome and having relics/mythics, and learned how to play the game, I bet you could do it too.

[Andylynn]

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).] there are plenty out there that i've discussed with and agree, low level ninja is an awful tank, they fail hard at trying to keep aggro, especially in places where the DDs have a weapon type advantage.

[Karbuncle]

I didn't have any problems holding hate or not dieing when I leveled ninja in 2004/2005. You have much more to work with now, it should be easy. I blame player error, if you spent less time pretending to be awesome and having relics/mythics, and learned how to play the game, I bet you could do it too.

DD's also have much more to work with as well though. This is in terms of holding hate, DDs from 2011 are slightly smarter than in 2005 and have access to more gear options (I think such as Swift Belt/Headlong? Were either of those around in 2005... its been too long). So do NIN but its a different ballpark with the 2-handed Update (which i think was later than 2005?), NIN falls behind with a lot of 2handed DD.

Outside of that, I dunno :X I leveled my NIN about the same time as you 2005~ and It wasn't horrible, But its been too long to accurately remember.

[Alkalinehoe]

I would do NINx2 tank for low levels (36 and under), works pretty well. WAR/NIN x2 also works too. Heck, I've tanked as SAM/WAR in Yhoator without much troubles.

[Andylynn]

DD's also have much more to work with as well though. This is in terms of holding hate, DDs from 2011 are slightly smarter than in 2005 and have access to more gear options (I think such as Swift Belt/Headlong? Were either of those around in 2005... its been too long). So do NIN but its a different ballpark with the 2-handed Update (which i think was later than 2005?), NIN falls behind with a lot of 2handed DD.

Outside of that, I dunno :X I leveled my NIN about the same time as you 2005~ and It wasn't horrible, But its been too long to accurately remember.

indeed e___e. when you've got sidewinders flying for 1200+, and pentas for 600+, its kind of hard for a nin to do anything about that :x.

[Vold]

The art of ninja tanking is a lost art. But fear not. I'm here to help. I'm here to take the pain away. I will now reveal to you an ancient gobbie secret that we ninjas "learned" i.e. threaten the life of this one Goblin if he didn't tell us the secrets to ninja tanking. What we learned was this: Thief.

You have to consider that the player base turned ninja into a tank. The only way we were able to achieve this goal was to use the power of THF for SA TA hate control. No ninja has ever held hate without it until Abyssea came around. There was some merit to be found with /drk but it didn't change the fact that ninja and thief are two peas in a pod. They relied on each other to get exp. Where there was a ninja, there was always a thief.

You need a thief. You need a first provoke. You need SATA. You need a group to work together to make it work. That's how ninja tanking works and always will. All that was thrown right out the window with ToAU and beyond because players got lazy and tired of working for their progress. It was like, yeah whatever, whoever can have hate, stuff dies so fast we'll just cure bomb them. What can you do, really. But until that point, if you ever see it by skipping Abyssea, you're going to want a THF at low levels for tanking on ninja. You will never be able to hold hate in a typical PT and anyone who claims otherwise is very forgetful or a straight up lying troll out to stir drama. Ninja tanking was very very stressful for me(but rewarding) because I did it right, and I required the help of SA TA to keep hate on me at all times. You can go the co tank route. You can live with hate bouncing here and there. But if you want hate on you at all times, deploy your ninja abilities to their max potential and have a THF for SATA. And it doesn't hurt to static with a THF you can count on. I did.

Now, for your case, and I'm going to assume by birds and low level you mean colibri in ER [s]. If by chance you mean 55+ in ToAU areas, you might as well suck it up, take the invite to "tank" for at least some of the time to mitigate damage, gear up with what DD gear you can for at least when hate isn't on you specifically(I still went the eva route until hate was off me) and go to work the best you can until it's over with. Same holds true for low levels if there is no THF to be found. But at 55+ people are going to want you to do one thing: Kill as fast as possible.

The need for ninja tanking has died down considerably through the years as our gear improved, players became veterans, and the age of power leveling reared it's ugly face. Back when you could attain 6k per hour as the standard with a ninja tank, it was thriving. But those days are long gone and you must get through ninja experience by any means available to you. If that means feeling useless to a PT, so be it.

[Hoshi]

NIN hold hate by spamming ninjitsu. If you don't like the expense don't play the job. You're not going to be able to hold hate off of rng and drgs on birds if they go all out and I think you shouldn't worry so much about trying. Focus on learning the job and skilling up your ninjitsu and let the ranger learn why they need to understand enmity better.

[Corwin]

Quote removed by Moderator.


At least you're honest about it.

[Andylynn]

lots of insightful stuff
this makes alot of sense.


Focus on learning the job and skilling up your ninjitsu and let the ranger learn why they need to understand enmity better.
i made it clear i've tried spamming them in the first post, it doesn't work. this is the same reason a pld can no longer tank these days, because they can't match the speed a DD can cap their emnity, making almost everything they do bring aggro their way. has nothing to do with my ninjutsu level, or not knowing the job.


At least you're honest about it.

[Corwin]

Much like your relic, your punctuation skills are non-existent.

[Greatguardian]

If you're sitting in a birdburn, focus less on keeping enmity and more on getting the bird dead. If I was masochistic enough to make a bird party, and stupid enough to invite a NIN at that level, I'd sure as hell kick them if they were trying to "tank" instead of contributing to the bloody group. The second bird you can kill with that stone: Your increased damage will likely garner you more enmity anyways. If a RNG can't stay alive at E Ron [S] (where I leveled my Rng 30-50), they're dumb.

Also, lol sock puppets. Seriously, you're not going to outrun that, TearValerin. I'm still having a hard time believing anyone thought they could get away with such a juvenile charade. And I'm still curious as to whether or not the mods have an official stance towards the use of sock puppet accounts on their forums.

[Andylynn]

If you're sitting in a birdburn, focus less on keeping enmity and more on getting the bird dead. If I was masochistic enough to make a bird party, and stupid enough to invite a NIN at that level, I'd sure as hell kick them if they were trying to "tank" instead of contributing to the bloody group. The second bird you can kill with that stone: Your increased damage will likely garner you more enmity anyways. If a RNG can't stay alive at E Ron [S] (where I leveled my Rng 30-50), they're dumb.
this has nothing to do with e. ron, it's wajaom and bhaflau birds. if people learned to read, there was mentioning of sidewinder, and penta thrust, 2 ws you wouldnt even see at ronfaure to begin with. if people spent less time nagging about someone i have nothing to do with, and actually reading posts, we'd have alot more educated people within our vicinity as to what the complaints/ideas were in the original post.

[Greatguardian]

this has nothing to do with e. ron, it's wajaom and bhaflau birds. if people learned to read, there was mentioning of sidewinder, and penta thrust, 2 ws you wouldnt even see at ronfaure to begin with. if people spent less time nagging about someone i have nothing to do with, and actually reading posts, we'd have alot more educated people within our vicinity as to what the complaints/ideas were in the original post.

o ok.

Change E ron to Wajaom.

Keep the rest of my post the same.

Everything there still applies. If anything, it applies stronger. You have Blade: Jin. Use it. Don't waste your group's time.

Edit: I leveled RNG and DRG there too on alts, if they're dying at all either they're dumb or their party sucks at killing birds. A NIN not properly contributing damage could certainly be a part of the latter.

[Andylynn]

o ok.

Change E ron to Wajaom.

Keep the rest of my post the same.

Everything there still applies. If anything, it applies stronger. You have Blade: Jin. Use it. Don't waste your group's time.

why cant one link a facepalm.jpg...

1. wajaom birds are typically synced 5-6 levels before a nin actually has blade: jin.
2. wind ws on wind monster? i mean, really?

[Greatguardian]

why cant one link a facepalm.jpg...

1. wajaom birds are typically synced 5-6 levels before a nin actually has blade: jin.
2. wind ws on wind monster? i mean, really?

Did you really just say that you shouldn't use Blade: Jin on Colibri because they're wind based?

Oh man I almost wish I was on Asura. You are just too much.

Also: dealwithit.jpg, you said Wajaom and Bhaf. You're nitpicking, trying to get a shot in when you don't have anything on me. Use your best DD WS till you have Jin, then use Jin. If you're not contributing to burning the birds, urdoinitrong. If you're syncing to birds too low to burn the birds, urdoinitrong.

[Daigotsu]

Nin was designed as a debuffer/DD originally, not a tank >>

[Andylynn]

Did you really just say that you shouldn't use Blade: Jin on Colibri because they're wind based?

Oh man I almost wish I was on Asura. You are just too much.

Also: dealwithit.jpg, you said Wajaom and Bhaf. You're nitpicking, trying to get a shot in when you don't have anything on me. Use your best DD WS till you have Jin, then use Jin. If you're not contributing to burning the birds, urdoinitrong. If you're syncing to birds too low to burn the birds, urdoinitrong.

look at it from another DDs stand point that has both a wind based and ice based ws like nin, would you use tachi jinpu or yukikaze on bird?

quote from wiki:

Noticed this on second reading:

尚、コリブリ族は風属性に対する耐性が非常に高く、サイレスが通る可能性が低い上、魔法ダメージを10%カットする。
That's "10% magic damage cut" and very high resistance to Wind element. --Itazura 20:46, 11 August 2007 (CDT)


of course, it'd be ridiculous to use jin on a lolibri.

[Greatguardian]

look at it from another DDs stand point that has both a wind based and ice based ws like nin, would you use tachi jinpu or yukikaze on bird?

quote from wiki:

of course, it'd be ridiculous to use jin on a lolibri.

Tachi: Jinpu deals wind elemental damage, that would be useless on a lolibri. Blade: Jin deals physical damage. Tachi: Yukikaze deals physical damage. Damn straight I'd use them on birds, and they'd do full damage too. I thought you were "almost finished with a Masamune"? And you think Yukikaze does Ice damage?

I'm going out grocery shopping, but I expect great things from this thread when I return.

[Andylynn]

Tachi: Jinpu deals wind elemental damage, that would be useless on a lolibri. Blade: Jin deals physical damage. Tachi: Yukikaze deals physical damage. Damn straight I'd use them on birds, and they'd do full damage too. I thought you were "almost finished with a Masamune"? And you think Yukikaze does Ice damage?

I'm going out grocery shopping, but I expect great things from this thread when I return.

jinpu is a strange ws, it doesnt do pure wind, it does a combination of the two. note, its purely fueled by a str wsc, it's multihit, and the only elemental ws stackable with SATA.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x244/KyoRagnarok/Jinpu8900Spectator.png

i think this was taken under VV gales and stout arm, both the melee and magic temps in abyssea boost its spikes to ridiculous amounts... back on topic, it's still got a physical aspect to it, and i still wouldn't use it on a bird. i would use the one with a higher wsc and 33% atk bonus.

trolls need to go back under their bridges.

[Tamoa]

Lol I did 1k Tachi: Yukikaze on colibris when I lvld sam. Blade: Jin is a bit inconsistent depending on crits or not, but it can do 500-800 dmg np if I remember right. Been a few years since I lvld nin, so I don't remember the numbers, but it's definitely nin's best ws by far.

Check Blade: Jin's description. Does it say "deals wind elemental damage"? No.

Edit: GreatGuardian is saying he'll use Yuki and Jin on birds, not Jinpu.

[Ramsos]

jinpu is a strange ws, it doesnt do pure wind, it does a combination of the two. note, its purely fueled by a str wsc, it's multihit, and the only elemental ws stackable with SATA.
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x244/KyoRagnarok/Jinpu8900Spectator.png
i think this was taken under VV gales and stout arm, both the melee and magic temps in abyssea boost its spikes to ridiculous amounts... back on topic, it's still got a physical aspect to it, and i still wouldn't use it on a bird. i would use the one with a higher wsc and 33% atk bonus.

Jinpu "has" an elemental aspect to it, even if its not 100% wind elemental it is effected by it. Jin on the other hand does purely physical damage, birds wouldnt resist jin any more than they would resist vorpal blade, raging rush, (insert physical weaponskill here).

[Neisan_Quetz]

Ahahahaha, you think it's ridiculous to use a physical weaponskill on a colibri, that's pretty funny.

[Deadlyscorpion]

this has nothing to do with e. ron, it's wajaom and bhaflau birds. if people learned to read, there was mentioning of sidewinder, and penta thrust, 2 ws you wouldnt even see at ronfaure to begin with. if people spent less time nagging about someone i have nothing to do with, and actually reading posts, we'd have alot more educated people within our vicinity as to what the complaints/ideas were in the original post.

Most dd' have SATA at 60 so either quit trolling or play with people who have their subs properly leveled. If you don't like it then quit nin. But for the love of God quit making useless posts/threads.

[Corwin]

Oh man I almost wish I was on Asura. You are just too much.

No, you really don't. PJ is swarming with Andylynns. And on your NMs not getting procs. And ruining whatever profit margin the AH has left.

People say two weeks away from XI was too long. For me on Asura, it wasn't long enough.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Most DD not Thf and maybe Blu should be using SATA anyway but I digress, you're complaining about something that isn't a problem.

[Rambus]

I didn't have any problems holding hate or not dieing when I leveled ninja in 2004/2005. You have much more to work with now, it should be easy. I blame player error, if you spent less time pretending to be awesome and having relics/mythics, and learned how to play the game, I bet you could do it too.

That is because in 04/05 DDs did not do damage like they do now. you have new gear and buffs like the 2H buff.

back then for the most part melees where to get tp then the blm with the mb was the bulk of the damage.

[Flunklesnarkin]

low level nin is fine

I had no difficulty using the current in game abilities leveling nin up...

I think you should re-evaluate your strategies.. just because you weren't happy with your performance doesn't mean the job needs to be buffed up.

[Rambus]

I tried to shuffle though the insults and i have this to say as well.

Tachi:jinpu is NOT an elemental ws, it does not HEAL puks, it can be sneak attack, they are more hybird ws, I do not know how that applays to birds.

carbori takes 50% damage off on wind elemental attacks, that link talking about 10% i have no clue where it is comming from.

yukki being ice and jinpu being wind does nothing for the damage difference, yukki is a stronger ws. The thing that makes it stranger is I herd people abusing the wind potency atma in abyssea to pad jinpu.

regardless jinpu is not a normal elemental ws and stating not to use a ws because a mob is stong to some element is flawed same with the jin comment

[svengalis]

Ninjas can't take birds. It's been like that for a couple years now so I doubt SE will do anything about now. Abyssea has changed the game many people don't evne do regular exp parties anymore so this really is not an issue.

[Flunklesnarkin]

ninja can tank birds fine.. i leveled my ninja up in the colibri camps in east ronfaure.. (no power level)

just use the slow / para / blind tools

they really do help in keeping shadows up. and your healer can concentrate on keeping people healed.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Jinpu is just special, the last I heard versus puks the first hit deals damage and the second hit heals them, suggesting it's a dual physical/elemental WS. It's considered an elemental WS for red procs fyi.

[Tamoa]

Saying it's NOT an elemental ws is just plain wrong though. Hybrid, yes.

[Cream_Soda]

I didn't have any problems holding hate or not dieing when I leveled ninja in 2004/2005. You have much more to work with now, it should be easy. I blame player error, if you spent less time pretending to be awesome and having relics/mythics, and learned how to play the game, I bet you could do it too.
You know how much DDs have been buffed since 2004/2005. 2004/2005 hate methods aren't going to work the same way, unless the DDs are just plain horrible

[rog]

Since when is shuriken ninja not a good low level dd?

[Cream_Soda]

Since when is shuriken ninja not a good low level dd?
Since people were too lazy to go cap throwing on another job (as leveling it as you go, it'll suck becuase of how fast you out level your skill)

[rog]

Since people were too lazy to go cap throwing on another job (as leveling it as you go, it'll suck becuase of how fast you out level your skill)
Ah, ok. Because i was going to say, i've never seen anyone else do more damage than my ninja did from 18-55ish.

[Cream_Soda]

Ah, ok. Because i was going to say, i've never seen anyone else do more damage than my ninja did from 18-55ish.
Play w/ a good pup. W/ proper attachments, the maton w/o the master's damage added should top pretty much every parse until at least 50. I had a few pts though where a drg + wyvern would beat my maton by a small bit, but adding my damage put me ahead by tons. 50-60 puppet + master's damage was topping polearm wars sams and drgs, and even rngs, but not by much.

61+ is when pup begins to start losing parses, but still very competitive (first parse I lost on pup was in a lv 61 pt vs a drg, who was ahead by 2%) . 70+ they get curb stomped.

[rog]

Play w/ a good pup. W/ proper attachments, the maton w/o the master's damage added should top pretty much every parse until at least 50. I had a few pts though where a drg + wyvern would beat my maton by a small bit, but adding my damage put me ahead by tons. 50-60 puppet + master's damage was topping polearm wars sams and drgs, and even rngs, but not by much.

61+ is when pup begins to start losing parses, but still very competitive (first parse I lost on pup was in a lv 61 pt vs a drg, who was ahead by 2%) . 70+ they get curb stomped.Haven't played with any good pups at low levels, ever, but can't say that surprises me.

[Rambus]

it is a bit much to say to the general playerbase you need to spam shurikens or suck

[rog]

it is a bit much to say to the general playerbase you need to spam shurikens or suck
Ok, but for low levels, it's true.

[Delvante]

Let's be honest with ourselves here...NIN was NEVER meant to be a tank from SE design. It was meant to be a DD played as a DD. Yes to play it "Correctly" it requires a good deal of money loss in order to keep tools and such in supply. However, regardless of that fact, it is still true that NIN was meant for DD'ing, NOT tanking. It was the player base that utilized it as such. Yes it's possible to tank I've done it well, but again it's because of what had been touched on before, the use of magic tools and a THF and everyone in the party working together.

[Hoshi]

I'm not sure arguing that NIN is meant to be a DD not a tank matters in an environment where the best DD is the tank.

[Rambus]

I'm not sure arguing that NIN is meant to be a DD not a tank matters in an environment where the best DD is the tank.

pretty much this, I never understood people saying "we need a tank for our exp pt" when it ment they wanted a PLD or NIN. I am speaking 2008 ish and up. people still damanded for PLD and such ( silly asura server)

[SNK]

why cant one link a facepalm.jpg...

1. wajaom birds are typically synced 5-6 levels before a nin actually has blade: jin.
2. wind ws on wind monster? i mean, really?

What..... the fuck?!?!?!?

[Rambus]

I think its worth noting now that there is 55-60 lesser camps in both bhaflau thickets and wajaom woodlands, but ya the jin ws comment is out there.

I been wondering though, what is a red ninja?

[rog]

I been wondering though, what is a red ninja?
It's best not to question such nonsense, and just pretend it didn't happen.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Clearly their complaint is the fact Ninja is unable to perform REAL SOVIET DAMAGE.

[svengalis]

ninja can tank birds fine.. i leveled my ninja up in the colibri camps in east ronfaure.. (no power level)

just use the slow / para / blind tools

they really do help in keeping shadows up. and your healer can concentrate on keeping people healed.

He didn't say anything about east r s. I would agree though at east r s I would prefer nin tank over pld cause they barely take any damage oit there. At 55+ is where things get messy. Melee DD don't know how to play. They put nin in parties with 4 crazy high dps DD and exspect a nin to hold hate when they ws as soon as the fight starts. Everyone wants to tp burn @ 55 and it just doesn't work with nin tank without thf properly. Dd eat magic p creating downtime or some dies. It works with pld but even they loose hate when you have rng ws for 1k.

[rog]

He didn't say anything about east r s. I would agree though at east r s I would prefer nin tank over pld cause they barely take any damage oit there. At 55+ is where things get messy. Melee DD don't know how to play. They put nin in parties with 4 crazy high dps DD and exspect a nin to hold hate when they ws as soon as the fight starts. Everyone wants to tp burn @ 55 and it just doesn't work with nin tank without thf properly. Dd eat magic p creating downtime or some dies. It works with pld but even they loose hate when you have rng ws for 1k.It works even better wiht just 4 dds, and a brd instead of a "tank".

[Sparthos]

He didn't say anything about east r s. I would agree though at east r s I would prefer nin tank over pld cause they barely take any damage oit there. At 55+ is where things get messy. Melee DD don't know how to play. They put nin in parties with 4 crazy high dps DD and exspect a nin to hold hate when they ws as soon as the fight starts. Everyone wants to tp burn @ 55 and it just doesn't work with nin tank without thf properly. Dd eat magic p creating downtime or some dies. It works with pld but even they loose hate when you have rng ws for 1k.

If you need a tank to actually hold hate in EXP then odds are the party sucks. I liked THF in EXP parties but TAs being necessities for the party to function is fail. A THF can take large chunks out of the mob, take a few hits on blink and the other DD should turn it or kill it before the DD becomes a huge sponge.

In a typical oldschool NIN DD DD DD Healer Puller party, if 4 people cannot kill Colibri then you have a problem. Either the DD need to sub defensively and share the pain or you need to find a better camp cause you're obviously too low for the area.

This isn't to say that DD can't be mismatched - the really bad with really good but needing a tank on birds is bunk. A PLD cannot keep hate off a good DD nevermind a NIN so the whole concept of "tank" means you either hold back and slow kills to make the NIN/PLD feel good or you kill fast and avoid the tons of damage that comes with having Mr. Colibri stay alive too long.

#1 problem with oldschool EXP was that people wanted to camp in areas when mobs were IT+ instead of waiting the 1-2 levels for mobs to drop to high VT where they are far more reasonable to deal with.

[Corwin]

I think its worth noting now that there is 55-60 lesser camps in both bhaflau thickets and wajaom woodlands, but ya the jin ws comment is out there.

I been wondering though, what is a red ninja?

Terrible Gauntlet reference.

[wish12oz]

Methods for low level ninjas to keep hate hasnt changed since 2004/5.
Macro enmity for provoke, full time good DD gear other then that, use good food, use spells when appropriate, don't get hit, and just do your best to win the parse. It's not hard, it never was.

And what the h.....
Tearvalynn/andylynn/whatever, you have sunk to a new level of downsyndrombaby with your blade jin is wind damage comments, lol.

[rog]

Methods for low level ninjas to keep hate hasnt changed since 2004/5.
Macro enmity for provoke, full time good DD gear other then that, use good food, use spells when appropriate, don't get hit, and just do your best to win the parse. It's not hard, it never was.
Actually the appropriate method is to not sub war, use shurkens up to 40, then switch to ele wheel /rdm, and stop pretending to be a tank, and go all out dding, since that results in you tanking anyway.

[wish12oz]

Actually the appropriate method is to not sub war, use shurkens up to 40, then switch to ele wheel /rdm, and stop pretending to be a tank, and go all out dding, since that results in you tanking anyway.

So we said the exact same things, except you want to use different subs.

[rog]

So we said the exact same things, except you want to use different subs.
No. Not getting hit and having enmity gear is not part of my ninja. Going out of your way to get enmity is just stupid.

[wish12oz]

No. Not getting hit and having enmity gear is not part of my ninja. Going out of your way to get enmity is just stupid.
Tanking is what you want to do, going out of your way to gain enmity is the best way to accomplish this? Whether it's from having enmity gear to macro on for half a second or doing good damage, or not losing lots of enmity by getting hit a lot.

Maybe you're just trying to argue something different from me, I'm saying ninja is suppose to tank, and it's easy to do, and going out of your way to gain as much enmity as possible is a good thing.

[rog]

Tanking is not the aim though. DDing is. Fortunately low level nin does so much more damage than everyone else, that you'll be tanking no matter what.

And no, trying to get more enmity is NOT good. You will hold hate no matter what, assuming you don't suck, so trying to get more will just lower your damage output, for no reason.

[McFlurry]

red ninja needs buffs, badly.

Was red Ninja about to die?

Or did red Ninja shoot the food?

Remmber, don't shoot food!

[svengalis]

It works even better wiht just 4 dds, and a brd instead of a "tank".

Not everyone can get the perfect party setup. I am sure we all want to play with brd or cor when in bird parties but those were some of the first jobs nabbed as soon as they put their flags up.

[Direwolfe]

If you're low level and focusing on evasion gear, that's part of your problem with tanking right there.

[Nidhogg]

Ninja is a tough job to tank on, especially when you have DDs that spit out a WS after the first 5 swings of your mobs HP, its best to just do what you can for hate, Voke, Blade: To/Chi/Jin and hope for the best, I gave up on tanking on NIN on the lower levels, and by 66-75 I was tanking just fine cause Jin does wonders for you.

[Rambus]

I think its worth noting now that there is 55-60 lesser camps in both bhaflau thickets and wajaom woodlands, but ya the jin ws comment is out there.

I been wondering though, what is a red ninja?

Terrible Gauntlet reference.

I do not understand

[Hoshi]

I do not understand

The game is called gauntlet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauntlet_(arcade_game)). The line is "Red warrior needs food badly" hence the earlier reference to shooting the food. Mostly it's just a dumb title.

[Airenn]

I thought it was a cute title, gave reference to a very fun game.

Oh wow, Tear/Andy/CumD, this is PRE-mithra picture! Very chic!

[Rambus]

The game is called gauntlet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauntlet_(arcade_game)). The line is "Red warrior needs food badly" hence the earlier reference to shooting the food. Mostly it's just a dumb title.


Gauntlet also has a place in pop culture (specifically '80s video gaming culture). The line "Red warrior needs food badly!" was named the third best game line ever in the January 2002 issue of Electronic Gaming Monthly.

In 2003 the third-wave ska band Five Iron Frenzy released a song called "Wizard Needs Food, Badly" on their album "The End Is Near". Here they use both quotes "The wizard needs food badly" and "The Wizard is about to die".

So it is like all your base are belong to us?

[Hoshi]

The problem with wikipedia is that they make every fact sound like a big deal. I've never heard of Five Iron Frenzy... and I doubt most people have? But yeah it's like all your base in that it's a random line from a game that lives on in infamy.

[wish12oz]

The problem with wikipedia is that they make every fact sound like a big deal. I've never heard of Five Iron Frenzy... and I doubt most people have?

Five Iron Frenzy is a great skapunk band! And they actually sold millions of albums during the 10~ years they were around.

EDIT: Youtube link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rp9XvD5kXg

[Rambus]

The problem with wikipedia is that they make every fact sound like a big deal. I've never heard of Five Iron Frenzy... and I doubt most people have? But yeah it's like all your base in that it's a random line from a game that lives on in infamy.

ohh new macro!

somebody set up us the bomb * Mijin Gakure*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qItugh-fFgg

[Hoshi]

lol... i hate JA macros but that one would be excellent ^^

[Rambus]

lol... i hate JA macros but that one would be excellent ^^

what about ws macros? I put SC elements in them to try encourage more people to imprtu sc

I took out namas arrow when i went to exp though, use it a lot as sam/war, like someone is gonna sc with me when i am solo scing to oneshot mobs

[Hoshi]

Hmm, I guess as long as it's short, to the point, and avoids <call>s it's ok to do that. I'm rarely in a party situation any more... usually a farming ally or a very small group. I try to throw out wildfires when I see someone doing something that I know it makes darkness with but my primary goal is just to kill the NM fast.

[Rambus]

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/8112/aerovsc.jpg
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1397/skillchain.jpg
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/3170/quad2.jpg
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/9452/savageblade.jpg

some examples

note about the blue spells, i only use those with CA, when freecasting I just use gear macros then menu the spell.

SCH is the same way I only use them when I am using the SC JA, I have no chat with normal spells

[Hoshi]

I'm not sure what to make of your macros. Are you telling other people what type of ws they would need to use to chain with you? Also 2 line macros are a bit spammy for my tastes. I thought you meant something along the lines of

{Asuran Fists}{Just used it!}

something quick to let people know what ws you've used so that they can pop off a ws if they know something that makes a skillchain.

[Rambus]

I'm not sure what to make of your macros. Are you telling other people what type of ws they would need to use to chain with you? Also 2 line macros are a bit spammy for my tastes. I thought you meant something along the lines of

{Asuran Fists}{Just used it!}

something quick to let people know what ws you've used so that they can pop off a ws if they know something that makes a skillchain.

WS elements.

Like when i say fragmentation A that starts distortion and light.
if you cannot SC with fragmentation then it uses scission ( start liquefaction, detonation, end scission and distortion)

what do you mean 2 line macros? it looks that way because I am soloing sc -.- and you can still make scs after it, if you know how.

My asuran fists would say gravitation/ liquefaction ws, because that is what it is

[Hoshi]

Oh i see ... you used two different macros there. It starts to make sense then. Those are fine macros but you'd have to do a fair bit of explaining to your party ahead of time so they knew exactly what you meant. And I hate 2 line macros b/c I use the hold feature for party chat and filter absolutely nothing (I know that's horrible but I really like to see absolutely everything that's going on... especially if I'm on white mage).

[Rambus]

Oh i see ... you used two different macros there. It starts to make sense then. Those are fine macros but you'd have to do a fair bit of explaining to your party ahead of time so they knew exactly what you meant. And I hate 2 line macros b/c I use the hold feature for party chat and filter absolutely nothing (I know that's horrible but I really like to see absolutely everything that's going on... especially if I'm on white mage).

yeah look at the pics again you see the scs being made lol XD.

well first pic the onstrean damage is the sc detonation ( made by scission > detonation as showen) and the quad pic was overkill so the sc never took place.

take a look at those pics again, your just like me XD <3

[Sama]

You can bring a THF for TA; no one has problem 5 years ago so I don't understand where this difficulty coming from.

I think it's just the party setup and choice; nothing wrong with the job level. Don't complaint your lv30 WHM can't cure VI...

[Rambus]

You can bring a THF for TA; no one has problem 5 years ago so I don't understand where this difficulty coming from.

I think it's just the party setup and choice; nothing wrong with the job level. Don't complaint your lv30 WHM can't cure VI...

If you need a THF for TA your killing to slow. That gideline existed since ATU area leveling