[dev1187] Campaign Adjustments - Discussion

[Ladynamine]

-.- seriously? Ok i would like to point out this content was really ruined this from the moment this was brought out back in 2007.

We use to be able to get skill ups from campaign from wall whacking which was unbalanced to begin with. Right then and there, we should have seen the skill ups being implemented. Instead got taken out of campaign in general.

Then lets not forget the thousands of bards/mages that got power-leveled by players sitting in the campaign zones and do nothing but play their songs and cast their enhancing magic spells. That was gimped and in the process gimped anyone from ever doing campaign when the mobs had control of the zone.

Now Square-Enix wants to bring back the skill ups. This should have been done years ago when people ACTUALLY did campaign... not 7 years later when people don't do it anymore...

The rate increase between the Altana Forces and the Beastmen should have been "increased/decreased when enemy force influence increases/decreases, at a greater rate than previously" when abyssea came out... not 4 years later...

This stuff may bring back some people to doing it. But unless you give 99 content rewards w/ a new medal rank, this is pretty much pointless to do and not many people will care for this, even the players who can't play in adoulin zones.

[Raydeus]

I'm one of the few players that still cares about Campaign, so I really hope they change Campaign ops and credits too like I say in this (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/39936-dev1179-Campaign-S-Ops) thread.

[MDenham]

Um. There's also one problem with what's been announced.

First, what Camate said a week ago:


Adjustments to the rise and fall of area influence
We will be raising the amount area influence is increased when the allied forces win a campaign battle. Additionally, we'll be lowering the amount area influence is decreased when the allied forces lose a campaign battle.


Now go look at the announcement:


When defeated:
Influence will decrease, and enemy force influence will increase, at a greater rate than previously.

Isn't that the exact opposite of what Camate said would happen? Is the announcement correct (PLEASE GOD NO) or was Camate right the first time?

[Kiroo]

My question is has this already been implemented or is it coming??? The thread they made sounds like its been an implemented change

[Ladynamine]

I'm not saying this is a bad thing to do. But I AM saying this should have been done like ages ago.

Square-Enix has totally waited too long to a point to do these things too late when they should have done all of this stuff when it was still a thing where your majority of player base was doing campaign.

It's the same thing w/ cait sith. Square-Enix wouldnt have done a single thing to bringing out cait sith if a post like this 1 here (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/39292-Cait-Sith-Atomos) never came up. Tho it was kinda stupid to bringing out the trust spells which seemed to only took months to do vs. 1 avatar that took almost over 5 years to bring out.

@MDenham: Actually the 2nd announcement sounds more balanced than what the Community Representative said was going to happen in the first post.

[MDenham]

@MDenham: Actually the 2nd announcement sounds more balanced than what the Community Representative said was going to happen in the first post.Forgive me for saying this, but "balanced" in this case is equivalent to "stupid". The "unbalanced" setup where - left to the vagaries of nobody going into the past - zones are essentially a coin flip, and with people showing up (even just one alliance or so) it tips in the Allied force's favor significantly... that's more appropriate to the current state of things where nobody's bothering with it.

And that was part of the problem with the whole Campaign system to begin with: it needed a significant (~5-10%) portion of the server to be doing it just to push things into "coin flip" territory. At this point it needs fewer people - one competent person can hold their own against any of the beastman divisions - but that still means it takes a fair number of people to push things to where the rarer ops (Plucking Wings &c.) can be done.

But that's beside the point, because the second announcement is actually less balanced in the low-activity state for Campaign. It means we may actually see if it's possible for the nations to lose every territory including the city on most servers as a result of the increased penalty for inactivity.

EDIT: And it looks like Camate was right and the second announcement was wrong, according to the chart of things planned for the update that was posted earlier today.

[Ladynamine]

Forgive me for saying this, but "balanced" in this case is equivalent to "stupid". The "unbalanced" setup where - left to the vagaries of nobody going into the past - zones are essentially a coin flip, and with people showing up (even just one alliance or so) it tips in the Allied force's favor significantly... that's more appropriate to the current state of things where nobody's bothering with it.

And that was part of the problem with the whole Campaign system to begin with: it needed a significant (~5-10%) portion of the server to be doing it just to push things into "coin flip" territory. At this point it needs fewer people - one competent person can hold their own against any of the beastman divisions - but that still means it takes a fair number of people to push things to where the rarer ops (Plucking Wings &c.) can be done.

But that's beside the point, because the second announcement is actually less balanced in the low-activity state for Campaign. It means we may actually see if it's possible for the nations to lose every territory including the city on most servers as a result of the increased penalty for inactivity.

EDIT: And it looks like Camate was right and the second announcement was wrong, according to the chart of things planned for the update that was posted earlier today.

Forgiven cus i now just re-read what was said. forgive my ignorance on that. but its still stupid they waited 5 years to do this adjustment.

[Kriegsgott]

are you joking Camate? cmon!

there ar tons of Threads how to make Campaign Battle nice you cant tell me you didn saw one of them anyways my question is....

CAN WE HAVE MORE CAMPAIGN OPS YES?

the influence increase/decrease is nothing compared to a Nation which gains a much better Boost from Campaign OPs

Smokescreen = Increases Influence on Beastmen Area's
Aegisscream = Increases Influence on Nation Area's

so what should i do with my 7 Campaign OPs til Tally = Reset OPs deepend on the Battle Strategies

i would like to Spam more OPs for more Boosts like

Pit Spider & Granite Rose to decrease the Beastmenboosts or Streetsweeper which increases the Prosperity LVL

and which is a lot more important is pls add finally a Guide how to increase Funds or give us more ways to GAIN FUNDING its not fair all the Beastmen have this Capped @10 Stars

[Hohito]

I think this was a good idea. I play solo, and most of the time when I am switching jobs say from BLM to SCH, I need to go out and practice a little so i get the hang of the job again. Allowing skillups is a great way finally have a reason to do Campaign. I also like to use my fellow a lot so that's just another reason to go to the past and find places to level her up THERE. Good job.

what I want from campaign?

1.) Less lag

2.) More drops

3.) Refresh TWO mp/tick

4.) Another level added past the final badge with new set of gear to buy. Say level 99, /equip for MAB, niche, gear.

[Paridise]

If you look at the whole picture, its not just CB (Campiagn Battle) its every part of the game, most players want it all upgraded to the new system of ilevel, any player that started in 2003, 04, 05, 06 that still plays the game like myself, wants sky, sea and forward upgraded, but lets face it,, SE took how long to do AF and few month after to do Relic, its going to take a while to get EMPY, this is not a short quick fix. Yep it should have been done years ago but SE looks at the New items and not the OLD things we worked hard for, thus mostly helping new player then working to keep the starting players.

[Kriegsgott]

I think this was a good idea. I play solo, and most of the time when I am switching jobs say from BLM to SCH, I need to go out and practice a little so i get the hang of the job again. Allowing skillups is a great way finally have a reason to do Campaign. I also like to use my fellow a lot so that's just another reason to go to the past and find places to level her up THERE. Good job.

so far i know the mobs and Fortification lvl should be around lvl50-60 i dont know what you want to Skill on the Campaignmobs but you should skill up with FoV or GoV and the right enemy lvl for your current skill and the extra spark points on Killing Mobs + Zonequest and all the other stuff gives you a much faster lvl up way as the silly Campaignsystem thrust me...

in Campaign you wont have the time to Skill up properly and you only can do the 500+ dmg quest on them the dosn even count as a monster kill....

[FaeQueenCory]

If you look at the whole picture, its not just CB (Campiagn Battle) its every part of the game, most players want it all upgraded to the new system of ilevel, any player that started in 2003, 04, 05, 06 that still plays the game like myself, wants sky, sea and forward upgraded, but lets face it,, SE took how long to do AF and few month after to do Relic, its going to take a while to get EMPY, this is not a short quick fix. Yep it should have been done years ago but SE looks at the New items and not the OLD things we worked hard for, thus mostly helping new player then working to keep the starting players.
I think the time betwix the RF1 and RF2 implementation was threefold:
1) deciding on "random extras" (such as Avatar haste on Glyphic Bracers) as well as all of RUN and GEO's effects. (Cause they don't have anything to work from.)
2) figuring out what to use for the reforging process.
3) artificially extending content to make sure more people have access. (This has kinda been the problem with Adoulin as a whole... Content is too easy to 100%... Even for a more casual player. Renegading on the statement "we will not be using Rem's Tale chapters for relic and empyrean armor upgrades... Was to ensure that there's an incentive to keep doing those BCNMs and AAs.)

There's also the idea that they waited for people to complete their Rf1+1s before releasing the RF2s... But that argument is absurd.

So we should expect a few months of wait for the empy sets for the same reasons above...
As well as if they decide to keep the gimmick of the empy sets or ditch the gimmick...
I'd like them to ditch it... And just have a straight hard bonus, since that would be more in line with Matsui's vision of mix and matching all three sets... Empy set bonuses hinder that... (Especially for like SMN... Anything less than 4/5 and you will never see the Blood Boon proc... It would be much better if they were all static, using SMN again: if each piece gave +%BPdmg or a change to increase regardless of the number of pieces worn... If they do strive for this, there will be more time spent on balancing that with the previous effect.)
Of course, they could just be lazy or give in to the player's greed and poop out empy sets with little to no modification... But I would rather they make something good and take their time.

[Puck]

Campaign is still awful. The addition of skill-ups is pointless, because there's barely any mobs to fight! Did they break something?

I've spent most of the last couple days playing Campaign. I've seen a lot of defensive battles where I show up when the music starts, wait 30 minutes for mobs to show up, and only like 4 mobs show up which the NPCs have no trouble thrashing in a minute or two. The battle doesn't end there. 10-15 minutes later, a few more mobs show up. Is this "working as intended?" Because it's boring as hell and no way to get Exp or skill-ups. As of this moment, I've been sitting in the same Karugo-Narugo battle for the last HOUR and I've seen a grand total of 3 mobs. Oh! Hold on, number 4 just showed up.

The same thing happened at all the defensive battles I played yesterday. Sign up when the music starts, wait 15-30 minutes, fight a very small number of mobs, wait another 15-30 minutes for the next round.

Offensive battles are still a pain without the help of NPCs if you're playing a job under 99. If you need their help, it usually takes quite a while for them to show up.

Mobs need to show up WAY faster during defensive battles, and NPC armies need to show up faster during offensive battles. There's no point in doing Campaign unless you need to buy AN items. Doing it for Exp and skill-ups is a complete waste of time versus going to any zone where you can summon Trust NPCs and fighting EM mobs on pretty much any job.

There should really be no waiting for mobs/NPCs to show up. It's no fun at all. When the battle music starts, the actual battle should start. No waiting a half hour for anything to happen. Music starts, all the mobs and NPCs pop and start fighting, over in 15-20 minutes, move to the next zone. That's how it should be.

[Lithera]

Yes but most campaign fights would be over before someone could get tags on and to the fighting area in some zones on an offensive fight because of where the C.A is compared to where the fighting takes place. A good 5-10 mins after the music starts for the npcs to show up would probably be better. Also the npcs still have a we zone at the other side of the zone bit. It's why even in the death throws of WotG people would get tags and then snipe the incoming npcs. I'm sure this might still happen at times. Other times I think the game is checking to see if the next battle is going to start as one is ending so you get the awkward is anything else coming pause time.

[Kriegsgott]

i dont have a problem finding good battles with 9000 XP 4500 AN waiting for a battle or following the sword icons is just a very lazy and silly way...

you have to watch at your town where the next battle begins like this:
Enemy > Friendly zone
Friendly Army > Enemy zone

dont demand something from SE which is not really necessary you guys should cry for a much better way to increase FUNDING this shit is broken

Bastok Areas > 11
Prosperity 7 days almost always full
Influence full capped on all zones

Funding 1 Star

serously SE ?

[Dawezy]

Just wanted some clarification;

With the adjustment of being able to skill up, can I get WS points from it now?

Working on Double Axe (BST/Primal Rend) and the campaign mobs have a ton of hp compared to other stuff, moar WS's to be set off.

Also, speed the Yags in Fort K up so they actually arrive at the Fort under an hour >_> 5~10 mins between Yags arriving is a joke.

[Lithera]

I think the mobs theirselves have to give xp. Could be wrong though. They could speed up time between the next victim to die at all of the sites, but yeah the fort seems to be slower than the others.

[Olor]

Sometimes people go out and meet the mobs as they march in and kill them before the fort so that also might be what is happening.

[Dawezy]

Not always the case, but some of the 99's do go out and kill them all before they arrive.

When it goes quiet on my BST I venture out and poke Widescan to see them barely on their way :\

Tossed the cb ws idea out the window for now though, sure the mobs have a ton of hp but their is 2 issues;

1 - everyone / npcs whores onto the single mob you have, and it dies mega quick.
2 - 1 on 1 using your TP to constantly cure yourself into of ws'ing is a bit redundant. Either cure yourself, or get a ws point and die. hm.

Might be just me.

EDIT: Meri Mountains has also become victim to the sudden lag of arrivals :|

[Lithera]

Had a few orcs one time recently seem to get lost on the way in jugner.

[Kjara]

A little question about skilling up in campaign battle... at what level do you stop getting skill ups?

I am working on my BST's scythe skill (currently at lv315, think it caps at 388 at lv99), but no matter the area I go to. From East Ronfaure to Xarcabard, no one of the campaign battle enemies seems to give me skill ups.

Can a lv99 cap skills on these? Maybe I was just too impatient and moved on to the next area before I'd start getting skill ups.

[Dawezy]

Thought I should follow up on this and clarify;

WS points *do* go up with Allied Tags on, but only on the campaign specific mobs. (if you were to attack normal exp mobs, points wouldn't count, etc.)

Must have gotten atleast 175 points of the 250 for Trueflight on cb's alone.

[Olor]

A little question about skilling up in campaign battle... at what level do you stop getting skill ups?

I am working on my BST's scythe skill (currently at lv315, think it caps at 388 at lv99), but no matter the area I go to. From East Ronfaure to Xarcabard, no one of the campaign battle enemies seems to give me skill ups.

Can a lv99 cap skills on these? Maybe I was just too impatient and moved on to the next area before I'd start getting skill ups.

Like 60... basically unless you're very underskilled, campaign doesn't do a lot for skill ups... still glad it's there though. Nice to get the odd skill up on a skill I barely use. (Hello 2 U throwing)