The struggle of Supporter Jobs other then BRD

[Damane]

This goes out to the Devs out there, because GEOs and CORs (more so GEO) are struggling to compete against BRD in terms of the support job place in PTs. Especially anythign that doesnt involve alliance content, since in "most" cases there is only place for 1 support job in 1 PT groups
This is due to 2 things mostly: BRDs have Scherzo and Marches.

Pls make all 3 Support jobs desirable in any spot by doing the following changes:

CORs:
- Implement a Runeist's Roll that cuts down sever Damage surpassing 75% of your HP (Scherzo equivalent/mirror)
- Implement a Geomancer's Roll that gives MAGICAL Haste to PT members (or swap an old roll out for it, whatever)
- Reduce Phantom roll recast to 10 sec for situations ith lots of dispel and being able to adjust easy


GEO:
This ones needs a bit more fixing, GEO struggles with any content as buffer where their luopans die because of one hit (AAs very difficult, list goes on) and where the PT is more dynamic (aka wandering aroudn changing position)

- Make the Indi spells castable on other PT member besides yourself (still limiting it to 1 Indi spell)
Reason: Avoid the Danger of haveing to stand near mobs that can literally one shot you if you are swapign gear out and arent /nin ¬.¬, makes also moveing around easier
- Make the Luopan pet auto follow the PT member you casted in on or the Monster you casted it on.
Reason: this would allow for a more dynamis play, and less static, changing positions wouldnd be bad
- Implement a Indi/Geo Spell that mirrors Scherzo
- Implement a Indi/Geo Spell that gives Magical Haste.
- Last: freaking give luopans like -90% DT, like seriously, luopans dont deal any damage (outside of poison which is laughable and if you let it explode), there is NO reason our Luopans should take that much damage when it doesnt even deal damage to mobs or take any hate of them.... FLAW of design.


AND LAST: make songs/rolls instantly wear off as soon as the COR or BRD leaves the PT. no more bullshit PT rotations.


/rant off.

Seriously, make them supporters close to equal!

[Selindrile]

Better yet, make Bard songs and Cor Buffs alliance wide but make it to where you can have no more than 5 Rolls, 5 Songs on at any given time. (2 Bards can still go in alliance content, don't have to rotate, just may have to make more creative use of Pianissimo/watch positioning more, but still better than rotating) I say 5 because that's the max a single bard could get 2hr+Maxxed Daur.

Also, all good suggestions IMO, but I still don't think this is enough to justify using a GEO over something else in 6 man content.

[Brightshadow]

I agree, Geomancer does require adjustment but the concept around Geomancer is positioning so I don't exactly feel that Geomancers should be able to bestow their "Indicolure" spells onto other people; however, that doesn't mean that Geomancers are screwed there are plenty of ways that SE can still adjust Geomancers to bring them up to par with the other enhancers. Here is a overview of the problems Geomancers suffer from.

1.) Outrageous MP costs!
One of the major problems with the job is the MP costs of BOTH "Indicolure & Geocolure spells". When we look at both Corsairs and Bards you see that Geomancers have the biggest disadvantage out of the three enhancers which is our resource "MP" while understandably as mages its logical to use MP for our enhancements I think the MP costs should be reevaluated and drastically reduced, because when you look at both Corsairs and Bards they get their enhancements for free. And that's not all due to our MP costs hindering us we avoid our secondary role in order to manage our MP more wisely. If SE wants Geomancers to nuke while enhancing the party they need to really get this fixed.

2.) Attaching Luopans
Our second biggest problem is our Luopans while I do see what SE wants to do with Geomancer by making our position important, I just don't feel its feasible in the current world of vana'diel due to the fast pace movements of parties, so i'm not really saying they should remove the HP bar from our luopans or anything like that, but I do believe that luopans should have a way of following a selected party member. A solution I have for this is basically a job ability with a short recast (15 seconds) that would allow us to command our luopan to follow a party member. This would also make many of our debuffs like gravity much better.

3.) 2 Enhancements vs 4~6 Enhancements
While Corsairs and Bards are limited to 2 to 3 enhancements per person they are actually able to provide double the amount of enhancements that Geomancers are capable of because we rely on generated effects that are stuck in the location we cast them so unlike our competition we cannot provide 2 different enhancements to each side of the field. Here is an idea I got from another game that I think would be perfect for Geomancers if you ever played a Discipline Priest in World of Warcraft you will see that these priest are able to provide single target bubbles that provide enhancements, basically I think an ability that allows us to provide a third enhancement in this form would greatly benefit the job because we would be able to provide 2 enhancements to the frontlines or backlines and we can in essense provide the third buff to either the healer or paladin. Usually in parties there is only 1 person in the backlines, and in rare situations there is a mage party with a tank, so I can see plenty of uses for this ability.

These are major problems

[AppropriateName5786]

When it comes to GEO, 2 buffs is simply not enough, at least not in their current state. I'm not sure why everyone is so against GEO getting 4 spells, because at the moment it is undeniably the ultimate afk job. It has virtually 0 depth; cap skills, stack magic acc, get some refresh gear, and even in AF1 you are 95% as good as the best geared GEO. Delve for many NA groups makes use of 2 GEOs, because 4 spells is what it takes for them to be worth using. This is all the more apparent in non-alliance content, where there is no combination of geo buff/debuffs that would make anyone think twice about using it. A BRD with no special instruments can still give 7 songs minimum; 2 marches, 2 ballads, elegy, nocturne, requiem. A BRD with 90 Daurdabla contributes 11 songs with Clarion Call. Cor can give 4 rolls, 2 caster and 2 DD.

Even with just the current spells (i.e. no imaginary Geo-haste), 3 slots would let you give enough buffs to be somewhat worthwhile. Indi-Fury + Indi-Precision + Geo-Torpor, as a coarse example, would make you comparable to a BRD giving 2 Madrigals and a Minuet. In its current state, GEO is a bore to play and simply a necessary evil in alliance content.

On a side note, it's rather funny that RDM isn't even mentioned in your post. It's so weak and unwanted that it's not even a support job in the minds of most players.

[Brightshadow]

When it comes to GEO, 2 buffs is simply not enough, at least not in their current state. I'm not sure why everyone is so against GEO getting 4 spells, because at the moment it is undeniably the ultimate afk job. It has virtually 0 depth; cap skills, stack magic acc, get some refresh gear, and even in AF1 you are 95% as good as the best geared GEO. Delve for many NA groups makes use of 2 GEOs, because 4 spells is what it takes for them to be worth using. This is all the more apparent in non-alliance content, where there is no combination of geo buff/debuffs that would make anyone think twice about using it. A BRD with no special instruments can still give 7 songs minimum; 2 marches, 2 ballads, elegy, nocturne, requiem. A BRD with 90 Daurdabla contributes 11 songs with Clarion Call. Cor can give 4 rolls, 2 caster and 2 DD.

Even with just the current spells (i.e. no imaginary Geo-haste), 3 slots would let you give enough buffs to be somewhat worthwhile. Indi-Fury + Indi-Precision + Geo-Torpor, as a coarse example, would make you comparable to a BRD giving 2 Madrigals and a Minuet. In its current state, GEO is a bore to play and simply a necessary evil in alliance content.

On a side note, it's rather funny that RDM isn't even mentioned in your post. It's so weak and unwanted that it's not even a support job in the minds of most players.

The reason they don't do anything else is because there spells cost so much, Geomancers are supposed to nuke after buffing the party, but they do need to be able to provide more enhancements because they are like 50% weaker than Corsairs when it comes to buffing. I think the reason SE hasn't allow us to provide 3 or 4 enhancements is because these bubbles cause alot of lag so imagine 3 or 4 bubbles in the field from one Geomancer, and imagine a party of Geomancers providing 3 to 4 enhancements.

[Damane]

When it comes to GEO, 2 buffs is simply not enough, at least not in their current state. I'm not sure why everyone is so against GEO getting 4 spells, because at the moment it is undeniably the ultimate afk job. It has virtually 0 depth; cap skills, stack magic acc, get some refresh gear, and even in AF1 you are 95% as good as the best geared GEO. Delve for many NA groups makes use of 2 GEOs, because 4 spells is what it takes for them to be worth using. This is all the more apparent in non-alliance content, where there is no combination of geo buff/debuffs that would make anyone think twice about using it. A BRD with no special instruments can still give 7 songs minimum; 2 marches, 2 ballads, elegy, nocturne, requiem. A BRD with 90 Daurdabla contributes 11 songs with Clarion Call. Cor can give 4 rolls, 2 caster and 2 DD.

Even with just the current spells (i.e. no imaginary Geo-haste), 3 slots would let you give enough buffs to be somewhat worthwhile. Indi-Fury + Indi-Precision + Geo-Torpor, as a coarse example, would make you comparable to a BRD giving 2 Madrigals and a Minuet. In its current state, GEO is a bore to play and simply a necessary evil in alliance content.

On a side note, it's rather funny that RDM isn't even mentioned in your post. It's so weak and unwanted that it's not even a support job in the minds of most players.


I think you have no idea how geo buffs are in potency, 1 geo buff is as potent as sometimes 2 bard songs together, so 2 buffs is really fine, its the problem of keeping those buffs up in your pt that is driving geo nuts and barely useable + the lack of haste buff and no scherzo buff really hurt the job.

[AppropriateName5786]

I think you have no idea how geo buffs are in potency, 1 geo buff is as potent as sometimes 2 bard songs together, so 2 buffs is really fine, its the problem of keeping those buffs up in your pt that is driving geo nuts and barely useable + the lack of haste buff and no scherzo buff really hurt the job.

So it's fine but it's not fine. I love these boards.

And yes, I know how strong GEO buffs are. I just did a random search on my server and out of 1057 people a bit after JP prime time, there are 112 WHMs, 90 BLMs, 41 BRDs, 41 RDMs, and 8 GEOs. Yes, 2 buffs is perfectly "fine."

[Damane]

So it's fine but it's not fine. I love these boards.

And yes, I know how strong GEO buffs are. I just did a random search on my server and out of 1057 people a bit after JP prime time, there are 112 WHMs, 90 BLMs, 41 BRDs, 41 RDMs, and 8 GEOs. Yes, 2 buffs is perfectly "fine."

you clearly missed the point WHAT GEO is lacking.... read my initial post again pls

[Blah]

Ah sorry, while I do support making geo and other support jobs equal I don't support nerfing other jobs, that's been the problem all this time I believe, they make a job real good, people say " Ok how about fixing <insert job here>?", and SE says sure and nerfs the job they just made good. So I think to make them all great they should all be able to either buff limitlessly or ah if that is shot down (which I'm sure it will be) at least let them all have the same amount of buffs, and course let that bubble follow...I want to KNOW who is being buffed and who isn't which honestly I can't tell when it's just sitting there...with no1 by it.

[Sapphire]

There is apparently a maximum number of songs, though I admit I cannot recall what it is at the time.

However, with the way the game is coded at its most basic level there isn't a way they can make alliance wide songs (or spells). Spells are either, enemy, enemy AOE, self target only, party targetable, party AOE or "can target anyone." There is no "alliance only" setting.

It's why dancers can Curing Waltz cross-party but not Healing Waltz. Curing Waltz can be targeted on any PC in range. Healing is party only. There is no middle ground as has been explained by the devs is the past.

(Not saying there SHOULDN'T be an alliance level, just saying I highly doubt it will ever happen do to coding realities.)

[Selindrile]

There is apparently a maximum number of songs, though I admit I cannot recall what it is at the time.

However, with the way the game is coded at its most basic level there isn't a way they can make alliance wide songs (or spells). Spells are either, enemy, enemy AOE, self target only, party targetable, party AOE or "can target anyone." There is no "alliance only" setting.

It's why dancers can Curing Waltz cross-party but not Healing Waltz. Curing Waltz can be targeted on any PC in range. Healing is party only. There is no middle ground as has been explained by the devs is the past.

(Not saying there SHOULDN'T be an alliance level, just saying I highly doubt it will ever happen do to coding realities.)

They could lower the amount of songs to 5 to prevent abuse, but a change like this would make people's lives easier, and there are situations where certain abilities extend past a party but include the party, whether it be the way Smn healing magic in WKR hits all PCs, or accessioned embrava hitting another party, they have the capability to make it to where there is an answer to such a request within their spaghetti code. And Healing waltz could easily hit people outside of party if they wanted it to, I believe you're completely remembering any dev explanation that may have happened.


It would be necessary to look into not only Healing Waltz, but also extending Erase to people outside of your party. In the case that we decide to extend the effects of Erase to people outside of your party, we will make it possible for Healing Waltz, too.

[Selindrile]

There are also some other gems from that post I found that I thought bore humorous reflection.


We would need to completely remake the system as it was originally balanced to have a unified recast timer with limitations placed on the amount of TP consumed. If we removed that, the cure capabilities of the job would be greatly enhanced throwing the balance off between other healing magic. If we were to split the Waltz timers, we would have to raise the TP consumption as a trade-off.

Since Curing Waltz was designed to be different from Cure in the sense that it has advantages with short execution time and it is hard to interrupt, but on the flip side is difficult to use in quick succession, we do not have any plans to reduce the recast time further. Instead we wish for dancers to focus on specific tactics taking into account the levels of Waltz and use the most appropriate one for the situation.Similarly for Healing Waltz, since it is possible to address a large variety of status ailments covered by na-related spells and Erase, the recast timer was set to be somewhat long.

Since there is no cost for Chocobo Jig the effect is set to be only for the dancer.
In the event that we were to extend the effect to party members, there would be some room to explore this if there were TP consumption or some other trade-off.


Sorry if it seems like I'm being mean to you Camate, I realize you're just the messenger for news the community doesn't agree with a good portion of the time. :(

[Camate]

Greetings,

The development team is currently exploring several ideas for geomancer adjustments and spells, but we are not at the point where we can talk about them in detail just yet. However, I can give you a broad overview of what they are aiming to accomplish. The team would like to focus on bringing out the uniqueness of geomancer as opposed to just making them similar to bard or corsair so that they are not just the same type of job. Geomancers have a nice advantage because they are able to spread enhancement effects that cannot be dispelled to a large amount of people and also their enfeeblements cannot be resisted by enemies. The team would like to focus on these unique aspects when making adjustments to differentiate geomancer as a support-type job.

[HimuraKenshyn]

Let the dang Luopon follow the mob and be harder to kill problem solved other than that add multiple luopons then I dance a jig...

[Rwolf]

I can respect maintaining Geomancer's unique form of buffing but something needs to be done about luopan survivability. If you compare it to other buff jobs, dispel is usually not that big of a overlooming threat (except on very specific situations like Adamantoises). Currently it would be akin to if a NM spammed dispelga every few seconds is how annoying it can be for Geomancer keeping their luopans alive. Dematerialize is nice but the recast is so long. I don't think the solution is the make them not take damage but it would be nice to have different ways to prevent and restore damage done. Maybe first increase their innate -damage taken and also lowering the recast of Life Cycle and Dematerialize considerably would be a good start.

I'd love to see a way to make Luopans follow around mobs or players. Having them completely immobile is just not very enjoyable of a unique quality. I'd love to see Geomancer get the spell Magnet. When cast, it creates a vortex which draws in nearby enemies and deals continuous damage for a short amount of time but will also pull your luopan towards it without dealing damage to it. It would be a pretty cool unique crowd control that works with Geomancer, trying to pull enemies back into something like Geo-Gravity. Which right now that spell is useless because of how long it takes to gain the movement speed down effect.

[Feary]

I can respect maintaining Geomancer's unique form of buffing but something needs to be done about luopan survivability. If you compare it to other buff jobs, dispel is usually not that big of a overlooming threat (except on very specific situations like Adamantoises). Currently it would be akin to if a NM spammed dispelga every few seconds is how annoying it can be for Geomancer keeping their luopans alive. Dematerialize is nice but the recast is so long. I don't think the solution is the make them not take damage but it would be nice to have different ways to prevent and restore damage done. Maybe first increase their innate -damage taken and also lowering the recast of Life Cycle and Dematerialize considerably would be a good start.

I'd love to see a way to make Luopans follow around mobs or players. Having them completely immobile is just not very enjoyable of a unique quality. I'd love to see Geomancer get the spell Magnet. When cast, it creates a vortex which draws in nearby enemies and deals continuous damage for a short amount of time but will also pull your luopan towards it without dealing damage to it. It would be a pretty cool unique crowd control that works with Geomancer, trying to pull enemies back into something like Geo-Gravity. Which right now that spell is useless because of how long it takes to gain the movement speed down effect.

I can respect maintaining Geomancer's unique form of buffing and If you compare it to other buff jobs

there is problem. you sound like a hypocrite. S.e is looking at these as two different entities. Internalize this fact and then make a suggestion and maybe we will get some where.

[Rwolf]

I can respect maintaining Geomancer's unique form of buffing and If you compare it to other buff jobs

there is problem. you sound like a hypocrite. S.e is looking at these as two different entities. Internalize this fact and then make a suggestion and maybe we will get some where.

Can't tell if trolling or actually serious... but I'll treat it as not trolling. I don't think you understand the definition of a hypocrite or hypocrisy. Respecting SE's decision to maintain Geomancer unique quality while realizing it's flaws are not opposites and do not contradict one another. What it sounds like is for some odd reason you are taking it extremely personal and feeling the need to label me as a person to get whatever point across. Also I made a very constructive suggestion, so I have no idea what you're even talking about. I'm not going to start a flame war with you so if you want to keep quoting me and calling me names, whatever gets your rocks off but at least do yourself a favor and actually read the constructive criticism context of what is written instead of writing it off as completely negative in which you need to swoop in and "white knight" SE from my comments.

[Brightshadow]

Greetings,

The development team is currently exploring several ideas for geomancer adjustments and spells, but we are not at the point where we can talk about them in detail just yet. However, I can give you a broad overview of what they are aiming to accomplish. The team would like to focus on bringing out the uniqueness of geomancer as opposed to just making them similar to bard or corsair so that they are not just the same type of job. Geomancers have a nice advantage because they are able to spread enhancement effects that cannot be dispelled to a large amount of people and also their enfeeblements cannot be resisted by enemies. The team would like to focus on these unique aspects when making adjustments to differentiate geomancer as a support-type job.

We don't want Geomancers to be exactly like Bards or Corsairs, but they should be an acceptable replacement when you cannot find a Bard. Right now the only replacement for Bard is Corsair because they are not so underpowered in the buffing department like we are, but in reality Geomancers doesn't need that many adjustments to make them a suitable replacement for Bards, all they need is the capability of casting a second Geocolure spell, and reduced MP cost of geomancy. that would even out the playing field with Corsairs and it will allow us to accomplish our secondary role much easier. Conserve MP traits are not enough.

[Damane]

Greetings,

The development team is currently exploring several ideas for geomancer adjustments and spells, but we are not at the point where we can talk about them in detail just yet. However, I can give you a broad overview of what they are aiming to accomplish. The team would like to focus on bringing out the uniqueness of geomancer as opposed to just making them similar to bard or corsair so that they are not just the same type of job. Geomancers have a nice advantage because they are able to spread enhancement effects that cannot be dispelled to a large amount of people and also their enfeeblements cannot be resisted by enemies. The team would like to focus on these unique aspects when making adjustments to differentiate geomancer as a support-type job.

This was stated before, and I know the Dev team likes a different approach on GEO. But this doesnt change the fact that GEO suffers in 6 man partys tremendously because it lacks very importent potent buffs like Haste and Scherzo. Haste is one of the most potent buffs in FFXI, any supporter job lacking this is allready deemed worthless, this is also the reason why Corsair is less effectiv then BRD (albeit still ok). And the fact that luopans die on anything remotly hard every 5 sec from the AoE doesn help either. I am not saying to change GEO into BRD, but i would like to have at least the most important comparable tools compared to BRD to actually be able to compete with it.

It is a support job after all, but what is a support job worth it when it lacks the most potent buff (Haste) that really bumps up all the damage of the entire melee party.

[Feary]

Can't tell if trolling or actually serious... but I'll treat it as not trolling. I don't think you understand the definition of a hypocrite or hypocrisy. Respecting SE's decision to maintain Geomancer unique quality while realizing it's flaws are not opposites and do not contradict one another. What it sounds like is for some odd reason you are taking it extremely personal and feeling the need to label me as a person to get whatever point across. Also I made a very constructive suggestion, so I have no idea what you're even talking about. I'm not going to start a flame war with you so if you want to keep quoting me and calling me names, whatever gets your rocks off but at least do yourself a favor and actually read the constructive criticism context of what is written instead of writing it off as completely negative in which you need to swoop in and "white knight" SE from my comments.

No, im not trolling. i think you dont understand which part i was calling you a hypocrite for.

how can say you respect and understand S.E P.O.V when they just said

"The team would like to focus on bringing out the uniqueness of geomancer as opposed to just making them similar to bard or corsair so that they are not just the same type of job."

then you immediatly start your reply with

"If you compare it to other buff jobs,"

i understand but...

seriously? are you trolling? lol

you dont understand or respect s.e p.o.v.


there is also a post where they explained, why they dont make certain these type of adjustments to geo.

namely, they want geo to have its own path that is not just based on its loupon. so making suggestions based on comparisons of other jobs wont get you anywhere.

[Feary]

its a hierachary. yes geo is a buff job, but other jobs are better at it by design.

brd only purpose is to buff unlike geo or cor. you cant seriously be that narrowminded on job selection.

ideally geos abillities to nuke and debuff vs buff. brings this reasoning into perspective.

geo is not to replace bard or cor, and s.e has done a great job of maintaining the balance.

Players just need to learn how to play it to make up for the haste lost with damage from nukes. and taking advantage of the enfeebles

[Rwolf]

No, im not trolling. i think you dont understand which part i was calling you a hypocrite for.
how can say you respect and understand S.E P.O.V when they just said
"The team would like to focus on bringing out the uniqueness of geomancer as opposed to just making them similar to bard or corsair so that they are not just the same type of job."
*yadda yadda yadda - unnecessarily long*
you dont understand or respect s.e p.o.v.

And again, I point you to reread my post to gain some clarity. The part you're bolding I didn't say I respect. I respect wanting to maintain Geomancer being a unique job. Just because I respect and support the goal for the job to retain some unique qualities, doesn't mean I have to support the method in which they are creating that unique quality. Pointing out the issues Geomancer faces as being a desirable support class through comparison does not mean what you think it means.

What I am saying: Geomancer should be equal in providing a support role to a party like any other support class.

What you think I am saying: Geomancer should be just like Bard and Corsair.
(/sarcasm Because those jobs are exactly alike /endsarcasm)

Before you reply that means the same thing, it doesn't.


there is also a post where they explained, why they dont make certain these type of adjustments to geo.

namely, they want geo to have its own path that is not just based on its loupon. so making suggestions based on comparisons of other jobs wont get you anywhere.

They have posted they don't want Geomancer to be a mirror-copy of Corsair or Bard. When I compare Geomancer, it is in the frame of reference of the role it falls under, which is support. If Geomancer's only role is to provide unique alliance buffs, it is too narrow of a role. You don't have to agree with it, just don't try to personalize it by smearing my character. I don't need to call you any names back, you're demonstrating enough on your own for people to see.

[AppropriateName5786]

The team would like to focus on bringing out the uniqueness of geomancer as opposed to just making them similar to bard or corsair so that they are not just the same type of job.

Geomancer is definitely very unique. No other job is wanted so badly for alliance content but shunned so completely from everything else. It is not even a satisfactory low-man support job simply because it's spells cost way too much, so you either heal like a gimped RDM or SCH, or debuff and do nothing else. It is not a great nuker for the same reason. Unlike the broken state of SCH when it was released, GEO doesn't even have any viability as a subjob.


Geomancers have a nice advantage because they are able to spread enhancement effects that cannot be dispelled to a large amount of people and also their enfeeblements cannot be resisted by enemies.

In actuality, Geomancer buffs have the smallest range of any enhancing magic, because they effectively wear off when you step outside the bubble. And since the Indi- buffs do not reach across parties, the 'large amount of people' makes even less sense. If you are equating debuffs to enhancement effects, then a sch/blm using stun is more useful than the entirety of GEO, because you can win without a GEO's debuffs, but if you miss a stun your delve run could end. Moreover, what's the point of resisting the spells when mobs can simply poke the luopan so it dies?


The team would like to focus on these unique aspects when making adjustments to differentiate geomancer as a support-type job.

The recent changes to make RUN a "better tank" have made it all the more clear that SE should focus less on their ideals and more on playability.

[Brightshadow]

Geomancer is definitely very unique. No other job is wanted so badly for alliance content but shunned so completely from everything else. It is not even a satisfactory low-man support job simply because it's spells cost way too much, so you either heal like a gimped RDM or SCH, or debuff and do nothing else. It is not a great nuker for the same reason. Unlike the broken state of SCH when it was released, GEO doesn't even have any viability as a subjob.



In actuality, Geomancer buffs have the smallest range of any enhancing magic, because they effectively wear off when you step outside the bubble. And since the Indi- buffs do not reach across parties, the 'large amount of people' makes even less sense. If you are equating debuffs to enhancement effects, then a sch/blm using stun is more useful than the entirety of GEO, because you can win without a GEO's debuffs, but if you miss a stun your delve run could end. Moreover, what's the point of resisting the spells when mobs can simply poke the luopan so it dies?



The recent changes to make RUN a "better tank" have made it all the more clear that SE should focus less on their ideals and more on playability.

They have Cardinal Chant for low level subbing; however, its not on par with the other subjobs I agree.

[Camate]

Greetings,

I have some additional information to share regarding geomancer.


GEO struggles with any content as buffer where their luopans die because of one hit (AAs very difficult, list goes on) and where the PT is more dynamic (aka wandering around changing position)

- Implement a Indi/Geo Spell that gives Magical Haste.


When it comes to giving support to close range attackers, bard currently has a slight lead and the development team would like make adjustments to bring geomancer and other support jobs closer to bard.

The team is still looking into various things and as I mentioned previously, but we are not at the stage where we can talk about it in detail, but there is a possibility of adding a haste effect to geomancer.

In regards to luopans dying quickly in certain content, there are no plans to directly adjust luopans, but we are planning to add equipment and other elements that boost luopan durability.

[Selindrile]

Whoever thinks bard currently has a SLIGHT lead at buffing melees is clearly not playing the same game the rest of us are playing.

[leorez]

Whoever thinks bard currently has a SLIGHT lead at buffing melees is clearly not playing the same game the rest of us are playing.

i ahve to agree, your out of you mind if you think a job that can have not only the most potent buffs, but more than anyone else, not having to ever worry about crap like the random factor that more often than not makes your buffs mediocre for COR or having to do constant upkeep/positioning on geo (along with hefty MP costs for pretty much the one spell people care about for geo...frailty of course...which if they didnt have geo would barely be used if at all tbh)

nothing is better than always good stable 3-4 buffs than 2 buffs that are either constantly random or need to be moved and taken care of.

[Rwolf]

When it comes to giving support to close range attackers, bard currently has a slight lead and the development team would like make adjustments to bring geomancer and other support jobs closer to bard.

The team is still looking into various things and as I mentioned previously, but we are not at the stage where we can talk about it in detail, but there is a possibility of adding a haste effect to geomancer.

The main reason Bard has such a stranglehold over other support jobs is Haste. It greatly boosts damage over time, increases TP gain without lowering it like -delay, and it affects recast timers. I know the development team wants to try to not give similar things to other jobs, but once they put something like haste into the game, it's hard to restrict it's access. It's importance is the equivalence of cure to healers. BRD can still be king of buffs if they wish it to be without hybrid support/damage capable jobs stealing it's thunder. There's a 3rd march animation in the files, release the new march. Bard can cap magical haste for a party on it's own but at least a 3rd march will allow in some situations to drop a haste song for something else. Give BRD some magic boosting songs.

The key to a great support job role is their tools of utility and versatility, and other support classes like Geomancer and Corsair are missing a very basic hard to replace one without haste. They need to give Geomancer Indi-/Geo-Haste and they need to change Corsair's Blitzer's Roll to actual Haste instead of -delay.

[Brightshadow]

not only should GEO get haste but also regain like it was suggested before the job was released, I mean for goodness sake we have Indi & Geo slow we need the opposite.

[Tennotsukai]

this new equipment will need to be amazing to help loupans exist in Arch Angel fights difficult and higher. Double hp and 50% dmg reduction may help. Maybe a Dematerialize/Life Cycle augment?

[Kincard]

Bards can have more effects up at once, can shift between them far easier, and they have the most potent effects.

In comparison, COR rolls can be annoying to roll over and over, and even when you get them perfect they're still not as strong (The closest thing to haste COR has is Blitzer's roll, which is weaker than Victory March and also reduces TP gain).
GEO offers a somewhat unique ability of reducing DEF, and they can play support even if they're not in your DPS group (you can stick them in a tank group and still have frailty etc)

While the two above jobs also hold a variety of special buffs for ranged and magic DPS, the problem is that both those are rather undervalued (Well, maybe not RNG, but it's still pretty specific instances). Those two are the jobs that still get invited, though:

DNC adjustments have already been announced and I'll wait to see what they do. Buffing up quickstep and boxstep may help out quite nicely (please remove the 5% miss rate on steps if possible, its annoying), possibly buff haste samba.
RDM has lost a great deal of its supportive MP battery function because of infinite MP, please give them some new unique spells. AoE Temper would be fantastic, for instance. Some whispers of Haste II came from the devs a long while back and while I think it's kind of a lame way to make them relevant again, I suppose it'd be better than nothing (it'd also make them another potential "outside-the-party" buffer) Giving them more support options again would make them a true hybrid mage again, and I'd love to see that. (And if I may put my flamesuit on you could even attach them to an enspell if that's what gets you giddy, but that kinda overlaps with what DNC does).
SMN isn't even worth mentioning, Avatar's Favor needs a really big reworking in order to be useful, and their Wards could use a bit of help too. SMN absolutely needs the most help out of all the jobs that can be considered support.

SCH isn't really considered a support but I'll mention it anyway- I would really love it if you guys unborked helix spells and Modus Veritas. The minute stunspamming doesn't work nobody will look for SCHs anymore.

[Trumpy]

I cant wait to see this new gear to help luopans out which will surely have jsut 1 pdt for the luopan. how bout some pdt crap for us? you put it on like almost all the bard relics. but the job u want to actually stand the whole time in danger gets nothing! Bard jsut runs in sings and peaces out!

[Vivivivi]

Whoever thinks bard currently has a SLIGHT lead at buffing melees is clearly not playing the same game the rest of us are playing.

While that is true, a geo in a party full of rangers can really boost their accuracy and attack

[Brightshadow]

While that is true, a geo in a party full of rangers can really boost their accuracy and attack

So can Bard and Corsair, and if they have a tank and healer they can also buff them too unlike GEO.

[doctorugh]

Suggestions to SE to get other support jobs into a party more quickly rather than waiting for a BRD:

DNC: -using job points to move haste samba to 15%
-using job points to augment steps (add 1% per level of step bringing total to 18% def down, same with quickstep,ect)
-allow for dazes to stack with en-type spells (this one is especially annoying)

RDM -Give Haste 2 - 25%

GEO - Give geo(aoe) - magical haste 10%

Bascially what this allows is a combination for a party or alliance to hit the haste cap without a BRD for several (but not all jobs). For example: You have alliance with Geo, for a party of DW jobs or MNK you only need a DNC to cap haste, instead of a BRD. Cant find a GEO or BRD, hey how about that RDM job? That will cover it. It doesn't really "break" or chance the game, just gives more options to hit the same thing.

As far as COR goes, the buffs are much stronger than ppl give credit. An 11 on Chaos > minuet x2 with soulvoice, so it has a niche for usefulness.
If anything I would say you could add a third roll from a defensive category only as a nice boost (gallant roll,magus roll,ninja roll) it would get some use at of the rolls that are rarely touched

[Zarchery]

Whoever thinks bard currently has a SLIGHT lead at buffing melees is clearly not playing the same game the rest of us are playing.

I think that Bard has a tiny lead over other support jobs. But then again I've been playing Super Mario Sunshine. I don't understand anything that you people are talking about. For example, what, exactly, is a Bard?

[Mirage]

A bard is like a big bag of sunshine. Coming from Super Mario Sunshine, it'd be right up your alley.

[Minikom]

Long time ago SE said something about giving cor 3rd roll, why not do that now? just increase roll duration 1 min more to avoid problems with timers

[Belmonts]

Regarding about COR I believe many ppl would gladly accept if instead of that horrible random rolls for COR, we could get "Rolls skill", they can even give a chance of bust if they believe the balance is not fair, but I really believe it would be better than always trying to get an 11 or bust or getting so-so rolls.

[Brixy]

What you think the problem is with Geomancer: Buff potency.
What the actual problem is: Luopan survivability.
You can buff potency all you want for Geomancer... It won't fix the main issue we have. This has been posted in many of the posts already and it seems you either don't care, or don't want to fix the job. Instead you keep responding with "potency!". I honestly doubt any -DT added to the luopans will solve anything. They need to have a set duration like Indicolure spells.

Luopan Issue:
Make Luopans immune to damage but increase the rate that they lose hp over time. Target duration of Geocolure spells would be around 3 minutes
(same as Indicolure spells). Change Dematerialize effect to remove the damage over time effect from Luopans for a certain duration. Replace "Luopan: Damage taken -10%/-11%" on Geomancy mitaines/+1 with either: "Luopan: HP +10%/+11%" or "Luopan: Regen +1/+2".
Reasons:
Bard and Corsair give buffs for 0 cost and they last a long time with no downside other than the fact they can be removed by dispel. Geo spells cost an insane ammount of mp and are one shot by everything endgame currently. What good is a buffing job if they run themselves out of mp trying to do their job only to fail because their "buff" is actually a squishy pet that dies as soon as you cast it. I understand you want Geomancer to be unique and I feel the same way. Their unique qualities is why Geomancer is one of my main and favorite jobs, but not being able to do you main role is not a unique quality I like having to play around. Make Bard and Corsair buffs take damage and see how long it takes for them to complain about the same issues. Actually... imagine you are playing Bard and every monster in the game is Kurma and only has the TP move Tortoise Song, you now know how it feels to play Geomancer. We already have a unique roll since we can buff the entire alliance by debuffing enemies (frailty and torpor come to mind here). This alone gives us a very strong and unique aspect that other support jobs don't have. We can buff people without being required to be in a specific party. Geomancer is also the only job that can successfully lag even the best of computers! :rolleyes:

Make Geocolure debuffs place an aura on the enemy similar to how Indicolure spells place auras around the Geomancer. There was a few post earlier asking for something similar to this. My idea was a little different but comes from the same points addressed in those posts. This would fix some spells that are currently useless like Geo-Gravity.
Add the ability: Avast (name means to stop or cease). Transfers the perpetuation cost of the Luopan to the geomancer. Effect ends if the Geomancer's hp goes below 50%. Think of it as a mix of Summoner's perpetuation cost of avatars and Scholar's Sublimation mixed together. This would allow Geomancer to expand the duration of a Luopan and give a nice use to the spell drain, while adding a necromancer feel for the job. You could really just replace my earlier Dematerialize idea with this ability.
Add the Spell: Transpose (name means to transfer). Steals an enemy's HP and transfers it to your Luopan. Make use of that dark magic skill! Could use this for a luopan that is low on HP and then use Concentric Pulse for maximum damage.
Geomancer fails in single party events due to one reason: We can't spread buffs to everyone. We are limited to 2 effects at any given time. Bards can give double march and double minuet to the damage dealers then run and give ballads to the mages for a total of 7 buffs and possibly more depending on what the party set up needs. This is not even including the enfeebles bards can throw on enemies afterwords such as elegy. Corsair can do the same thing to an extent but not quite as many buffs as bard. They can still split their buffs to benefit everyone in the party. Geomancer is stuck with whichever 2 they choose and can't split their buffs up to benefit both mages and damage dealers without sacrificing something. Allowing us to cast a 2nd Indicolure spells on party members would be a very good start to fixing this huge problem.
Someone mentioned giving Geomancer Indi/Geo-Haste. I doubt this would do anything for Geomancer unless we get the option of a 3rd buff since 1.) Geomancer is usually outside of the damage dealing party so Bard and Corsairs can do their buffs. 2.) Embrava and marches exist so we will always be stuck on enfeeble mode. 3.) In 6 man parties this could possibly see some use but again we are limited to 2 buffs and one of them is always going to be defense down.
It seems like you want to fix geomancer but you are not sure how to do it without messing up their unique pet system. I think these adjustments would give geomancer more of a pet job feel and still fix the main issues we face due to luopans.

Cardinal Chant:

Based on the artifact quests storyline and the actual name Geomancer, the job has a feeling of nature and using the earth and surroundings to their benefit. Cardinal chant was a good idea that used this concept to make position a strong part of the job, but that was really the only trait or ability that focused on this unique aspect. Here are a few ideas to augment the current Cardinal Chant by using Geomancer's exclusive -ra spells:
North bonus is currently magic critical hit rate. This direction focuses on luck to deal higher damage than usual so add the augment of increasing critical hit damage and magic critical hit damage for party members.East bonus is currently magic attack bonus. This direction focuses on pure damage increase so add the augment of increasing the damage taken based on the -ra spell used. For example: Stonera II would cause earth elemental magic to deal more damage for party members.South bonus is currently magic accuracy. This direction focuses on precision over power so add the augment of reducing magic evasion of the -ra spell used. For example: Aerora II would reduce wind magic evasion and make spells such as silence and gravity easier to land.West bonus is currently magic burst bonus. This direction focuses on magic bursts so add the augment of increasing skillchain damage and magic bursts damage on a sucessful magic burst for party members. Geomancy Galero/+1 would increase the duration of these effects by 15/30 seconds and potency by 3%/5%. Yep, I just made this useless item have a good use. Awesome huh?
Reasons:
These changes would allow Cardinal chant to be used for something other than free magic attack bonus which is the main reason to currently use it. It also allows us to buff our party in ways other than indi/geo spells. Currently -ra spells are a clone of -aga spells (other than how the targeting works), this would give them a unique twist for not only offense but for defensive play. Target duration for these effects would be 1 minute.

Other:

Some spells I would like to see at some point:
Enfeeble based -ra spells such as sleepra, bindra, gravira. These won't happen because Red Mages will cry about it. Bard, Corsair, Scholar, and pretty much every other buffing job has a form of dispel, feel free to toss us one. Possibly change Concentric Pulse to sacrifice your luopan to deal damage to targets in range and dispel up to 3 buffs. This ability is useless in its current form.

I will add more ideas to this post if I think of some. Thanks for taking the time to read if you did!

[Blah]

I hate to say it but really since it's only really 3 enhancement jobs (calling them enhancement jobs not support jobs) They really shouldn't be having such a problem making them good. They should give them all a way to erm "naturally" have 3 or maybe even 4 enhancements up, I mean geomancer really shouldn't be limited at all on how many loupans it can cast and like people said have it either follow the enemy and follow either the person or follow the caster at least. I also kinda, kinda thought that corsair should somehow be able to...skill...up...rolls? But to do that they would need...to...put...in...a...hmmm...luck attribute. Yes an actual luck attribute I know this won't go over well because it will mainly benefit just corsair, thief and blue mage but if they have these types of jobs they actually do need to have a luck attribute. Unless there IS a luck attribute and it's just not, ah, listed in which case, start. AND let us increase it as we level up not go wishy-washy on us and put it on gear "set xio mio gear 2% luck up"

[Camate]

Greetings,

I just wanted to share some more adjustments that are on the horizon for both corsair and geomancer when it comes to elemental magic.

Directly adjusting the damage output of elemental magic is somewhat difficult at the moment because with the right equipment there is potential to deal an extremely high amount of damage. As such, we would like to address this through support effects.

First for corsair, we realize it’s difficult to use certain rolls at high level and the team is currently looking into adjusting the effect values, which would include both Wizard’s Roll and Warlock’s Roll.

As geomancer’s support effects depend on the level of your skill, we are planning to add more equipment moving forward to increase your skill level further and thus boosting the effect of their support.

[Brightshadow]

Will the skill increase also affect our other spells? I would really love it if GEO was capable of providing a 6MP/Tick refresh.

[AppropriateName5786]

Will the skill increase also affect our other spells? I would really love it if GEO was capable of providing a 6MP/Tick refresh.

I'm sure you know this and are just compromising, but even 9mp/tick would not warrant having a GEO in non-alliance content. Skill increase is not the solution.

Let's just say this change happened and Geo-Refresh is super strong. There are still very, very few times when Geo/Indi-Refresh is the spell you want to keep up, unless your alliance just stands around for 5 minutes in between every NM/mob kill and your casters can't manage their MP at all. A second debuff or Indi-Focus for your stunners is almost always more useful (especially if they use Apamajas for stun recast, which lacks ilvl +Magic Acc). Higher skill that gives stronger spells will keep GEO in exactly the same rut that it's in now... Why are the devs focusing on buff potency when buff quantity, efficiency (i.e. luopan mechanics), and variety are the real problems?

Also, if what they plan is similar to what they did with Perfect Defense (lol600 summoning skill) and Embrava (but in this case, a combined Handbell/Geomancy skill of 1000), they might as well not bother.

[Peepiopi]

Why are the devs focusing on buff potency when buff quantity, efficiency (i.e. luopan mechanics), and variety are the real problems?

It really makes you question how much they're actually paying attention to player activity statistics huh? Because otherwise they'd probably know that the biggest problem that geomancers face is loupon survivability. You have geo spells that cost 200mp+ that die after 5 seconds because of AoE spam, and that severely reduces the geomancer's effectiveness (and available mp).

Just the same with all other pet jobs. Why can't they do what wow did back in WoLK and make it so that pets take like 90% less damage from AoE? It would fix a big problem not only for Geomancer, but pup, bst, and smn too.

[Brightshadow]

The solution to GEO is really simple allow us to cast 2 luopans, and like you said peepiopi give them a ton of damage reduction, I would also love for them to adjust the MP cost of the geomancy spells; however, that's something that we can live with.

[Rwolf]

Just the same with all other pet jobs. Why can't they do what wow did back in WoLK and make it so that pets take like 90% less damage from AoE? It would fix a big problem not only for Geomancer, but pup, bst, and smn too.

I completely agree with this. It wouldn't even be overpowered if they make it so it only works as long as the pet isn't the prime target of the area of effect attack.

I also agree that buff potency is nice but is not the main issue with Geomancer. Luopan survivability, maintaining support with most of the current content being high movement, and lack of utility (only being able to provide two effects total). I agree that 2 luopans would make more sense and just require things like Life Cycle and Full Circle to target the luopan instead of yourself.

I think it would be nice if we could stack same element spells on a single luopan. Like using Geo-Frailty, then targeting the luopan you can cast Geo-Voidance onto it. Adding spells would increase the deterioration of the luopan and make it more interesting of a mechanic/strategy. Adding +skill and +buff/debuff gear is great but also adding more gear that slows the deterioration of luopans, akin to Summoner's ability to remove the penalty of perpetuation with enough gear/abilities.

[Deifact]

Hmm wouldn't there be an issue with two Luopans due to the fact they use the pet slot? You can only have 1 pet at any given time.

I think the best GEO will get is multiple effects on the same Luopan as it doesn't require major coding. Or an ability that allows GEO to cast an Indi spell on another player.

[Lithera]

There are ways to get around the single pet slot though. Course the job combos to do that are not very effective.

[Camate]

Hello, geomancers.:)

Based on the feedback we have been receiving as well as the conditions we have been seeing in end-game content, we will be increasing the damage reduction trait of luopans in the May version update.

In the future, we will also be adding equipment to boost this damage reduction further and we feel these plans will help solve the issue where luopans are destroyed quickly during battles in end-game content.

The development team has also begun to look into other equipment that will increase the effects of geomancy and Phantom Roll, so that both geomancer and corsair can catch up to bard.

[bigdave]

does that mean cor will get 4 rolls?

[Gannon]

Will that mean that COR and GEO will be getting some form of real Haste (not that delay reduction stuff that reduces tp gain)?

[Malthar]

They promised nothing.

[Alhanelem]

I think it would be good if you could have:
1 support luopan
1 enfeebling luopan
1 support indi-spell
1 enfeebling indi-spell

at the same time.

[Rwolf]

That's good to hear on luopan defense. I hope it's at least 50% -Damage Taken, if not more. A good step in the right direction, however Geomancer needs more than equipment increasing geomancy potency to catch up to Bard, or even Corsair.

Geomancer buffs and debuffs are potent. However they are:

Difficult to move around. You will lose the enhanced effects once you have to move the luopan.
You only get two effects total.
Enhancements to luopans on high recast timers.


They could double the potency of all of them and it still wouldn't merit a spot in a 6 man group compared to a Corsair or Bard. Geomancer doesn't have to be those exact classes but it does need to be comparative.

Beyond luopan damage, which I reserve to wait and see how much -Damage Taken is added. The biggest issue with Geomancer is lack of utility through the severely limited amount of spells it can use in rotation. The bread and butter of any support class in any type of RPG is how flexible and useful it is for different scenarios.

Currently, Geomancer is like a Bard with permanent Soul Voice, but can only sing 2 songs total. No Marches. No single target songs. Has nice debuffs which can't be dispelled, but regular attacks and moving lower the songs duration.

I'm of course not accounting for everything a Geomancer can do but looking at it from a purely desirable support standpoint, It's about all there is. They need the ability to have more than 2 effects active in some way shape or form. If not through luopans, then something.

[Creelo]

An increase in the damage reduction trait Luopans naturally possess will be wonderful; I just hope it's fairly potent.

I still get a little flustered at the thought of them adding more Luopan DT- gear. I just feel like it fosters this idea that Geo should just cast their Luopans and then immediately idle in Refresh/Luopan DT- gear until their Luopan gets destroyed and repeat the process over and over, with minimal Luopan JA use in between casts. Personally I find this problematic because Geo is capable of doing so much more than just that, and that kind of lackluster play style bores me to tears.

It would be neat if Luopan DT- gear could be used when you cast your Luopan but then later taken off, while your Luopan still receives the benefit of the DT- gear. So for example, casting your Luopan with the new bell, Dunna (which possesses Luopan Damage Taken -5%), would mean that the Luopan would continue to have that Damage Taken -5% in effect until the Luopan dies, is Full Circle'd, or its timer goes up even if the Geo takes off that Dunna bell.

[Kombys]

[QUOTE]does that mean cor will get 4 rolls?[QUOTE]

3rd roll should be cool also increase roll duration to 1 min extra, long time ago they talk about let cor get 3rd roll with the new SP then they changed their mind and give us this terrible cutting cards SP, why not remake it, dont see ppl using this SP and 3rd roll should be something cool, geomacers are debuffers and i think that is way how tehy should be

[Kombys]

make more potent cor roll effect about 1/2 extra about current values

[Damane]

the potency and number of buffs dont matter, as long as COR and GEO dont get any form of magical haste buff in forms of rolls and indi-spells there is NO WAY in compeating against a bard, EVER. WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND FOR DEVs!

[Brightshadow]

the potency and number of buffs dont matter, as long as COR and GEO dont get any form of magical haste buff in forms of rolls and indi-spells there is NO WAY in compeating against a bard, EVER. WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND FOR DEVs!

They do understand they were looking at adding a geomancy base haste spell, but we already are underperformers when it comes to providing multiple effects so we definitely need some way to provide another geomancy spell to atleast allow us to use 3 geomancy spells. I don't think this should be accomplished by gear because its a downfall of the job.

[Deifact]

I don't think this should be accomplished by gear because its a downfall of the job.

This is what I'm most worried about. A few years ago SE would have given traits/job abilities to make up for a jobs shortcomings (look at the abilities they added to BRD for example to let them use AoE songs as single target, or to keep certain songs on themselves that can't be overwritten). Yet recently either through laziness or in an attempt to justify their change over to the ilvl system opposed to raising the level cap they seem to tack on fundamental mechanic changes onto gear. This reduces gear options because you HAVE to use that equipment to compete.

[doctorugh]

Another idea for corsair:
Unlucky dice: Makes next dice roll targeted on enemy and effect applied is negative.
Allows basically a debuff on the mob and some lesser used rolls might get some play (gallant roll, magus roll, wizard roll, ect)

[Aarahs]

An increase in the damage reduction trait Luopans naturally possess will be wonderful; I just hope it's fairly potent.

I still get a little flustered at the thought of them adding more Luopan DT- gear. I just feel like it fosters this idea that Geo should just cast their Luopans and then immediately idle in Refresh/Luopan DT- gear until their Luopan gets destroyed and repeat the process over and over, with minimal Luopan JA use in between casts. Personally I find this problematic because Geo is capable of doing so much more than just that, and that kind of lackluster play style bores me to tears.

It would be neat if Luopan DT- gear could be used when you cast your Luopan but then later taken off, while your Luopan still receives the benefit of the DT- gear. So for example, casting your Luopan with the new bell, Dunna (which possesses Luopan Damage Taken -5%), would mean that the Luopan would continue to have that Damage Taken -5% in effect until the Luopan dies, is Full Circle'd, or its timer goes up even if the Geo takes off that Dunna bell.

I think ideally, you want to idle in -dt and refresh anyways and only switch out when you're nuking. If SE can give Geo a trait where -dt is shared between luopan and Geo, it would help on inventory a lot.

[Brightshadow]

That's the problem with ilevel SE is attempting to solve everything with equipment, instead of fixing a job flaws with traits, abilities, and spells. GEO needs core job adjustments not.just gear.

[Ultimoore]

I am a solo player who plays DD and Support for the team I think Geomancer's should be allowed to wear Jerkin sets. I did some research in the auction house and all support jobs wear jerkin sets except.. you guest it, Geomancers. Now as a solo player like myself who loves to wield the mighty hammer to deal the physical damage as well as the magical damage. think about it devs Geomancers + Jerkins = Happyness

[Damane]

I am a solo player who plays DD and Support for the team I think Geomancer's should be allowed to wear Jerkin sets. I did some research in the auction house and all support jobs wear jerkin sets except.. you guest it, Geomancers. Now as a solo player like myself who loves to wield the mighty hammer to deal the physical damage as well as the magical damage. think about it devs Geomancers + Jerkins = Happyness

pure mages were never considered to equip jerkins, whm blm sch smn, geo counts as a pure mage (rdm falls into the category with brd cor blu etc). armor classes are not defined by the type/role the job fullfills, but are predefined.

Very Light armor (clothes) :
SCH WHM BLM GEO SMN (pure mages)

Light Armor (leather):
RDM BLU COR DNC RUN RNG THF BRD PUP (PUP was purely cloth pre lvl cap raise to lvl 99)

heavier light armor (due to eastern equipment and some chainmails):
MNK NIN

light heavy armor:
SAM DRG BST

heavy amor:
PLD WAR DRK

there are ecxeptions, where 1-2 pieces exist that usually dont follow this pattern, but those are really exeptions and usually very very niché armor (and not usefull anymore anyway, holy breastplate for whm for example, or whm haubergeon).

[Kensagaku]

I'm not much for heavier armor on GEO either, simply because it breaks their general mold of mage-focus. Sure, in FF Tactics they ran around wielding swords, axes, and heavier armor, but in most games they wear lighter clothes. Fortunately, thanks to ilvl gear, it's not too hard to hit the haste cap and still maintain good defensive gear. Hagondes +1 has great ilvl stats on it, can be augmented with PDT and MDT, and has plenty of haste on it. Accuracy is where you're going to suffer though, and honestly, a GEO shouldn't be thwacking things with their clubs anyway; just as I feel about WHM or RDM melee, there is time and a place for everything. In the middle of an intense battle where you're just another source of TP feed that's squishy and an MP drain on the backline healers, you're undesired. Now if it's solo, or perhaps something low-man on a lower difficulty? Sure. Swing away. I just feel that it isn't really fitting for the job to melee, even if the capability exists.

Of course, you did mention solo, so let me point you towards things like a combination of the Hagondes+1 set (can be aug'd with PDT, MDT, and has higher stats and defense) and the Espial Set (lots of good haste+ options to cap you off quicker). This will give you good defenses and haste that you need, and you can make up things like multiattack and acc in other slots. Steelflash/Bladeborn Earring, Asperity Necklace, Rajas/Mars or Rajas/K'ayres. You'll have to do some research to find suitable pieces, but if you want to do GEO melee solo, by all means.

[Ultimoore]

pure mages were never considered to equip jerkins, whm blm sch smn, geo counts as a pure mage (rdm falls into the category with brd cor blu etc). armor classes are not defined by the type/role the job fullfills, but are predefined.

Very Light armor (clothes) :
SCH WHM BLM GEO SMN (pure mages)



Seekers of Adoulin Description of Geomancer:
These arcane spellcasters harness the power of geomancy to strengthen allies, enervate enemies, and provide much-needed support to their parties. They assume many of the same support specialist roles corsairs and bards do, and while they may not pack as much offensive firepower as black mages, they can employ elemental magic with ease. There is no set way to play this game anymore . So as a solo player like my self for continuity it would make more sense for a geomancer to use Jerkins. Thank you

[Damane]

Seekers of Adoulin Description of Geomancer:
These arcane spellcasters harness the power of geomancy to strengthen allies, enervate enemies, and provide much-needed support to their parties. They assume many of the same support specialist roles corsairs and bards do, and while they may not pack as much offensive firepower as black mages, they can employ elemental magic with ease. There is no set way to play this game anymore . So as a solo player like my self for continuity it would make more sense for a geomancer to use Jerkins. Thank you

they are a support class thats correct, that does NOT mean that they wear leather (light) armor. you could introduce a support class called "kinght defender" (pulled the name out of my ass) and have it classified as heavy armor wearer. The fact is Geos are classified as very light armor (clothes)

[Kensagaku]

Two things; one, why the obsession with jerkins? If you mean light armor in general, that's one thing, but you sorta seem hung up on that one armor type.

Two, Geomancers are primarily a mage class. They focus on their magic through geomancy and elemental magic, with a touch of dark and enfeebling magic. As a mage class, they wear cloth-type armors which benefit their magic stats. Yes, there are some pieces that are beneficial for physical combat, but they are mostly few and far between. Light armor does not fit them compared to the two physical/magical hybrids, RDM and BLU. Granted, BLU got the better end of the light armor deal but lost out on some of the mage armor in return, while RDM is the other way around, but both have access to a reasonable amount of light armor because their job type allows them to do so.

[Olor]

I think this armor argument is a bit of a derail, as this thread was about making support jobs other than bard better at their main role, which is support.

[Malithar]

Gonna bump this on to the top for you Camate. ;P Give us the word on that massive Geo post, and what Idris' +10 Geomancy Skill really is purty please.

[Camate]

Greetings! :)

I’d like to give you all an overview of what we have planned in regards to geomancer adjustments, only (and I do mean only) because Malithar bumped the thread! (Of course I'm kidding and would have shared the information with everyone regardless!)


Adjustments to geomancy effects
Just as how songs are enhanced with instruments, we’ll be making it so that geomancy effects are boosted by adding stats that will increase the effects of geomancy to certain equipment.

The geomancer ergon weapon “Idris” has this type of effect, but in the June version update we will be adding other equipment that boosts the effects of geomancy.

(Idris has “Geomancy skill + 10”, but this doesn’t add 10 skill to your geomancy skill, it actually boosts the stats of geomancy spells.)


Luopan durability
In the May version update we boosted the damage reduction trait of luopans, but in addition to this we will be adding equipment that will further reduce the damage luopans receive in the future.


Additional magic
While this is a bit in the future, we will be adding new geomancy spells that have support effects for physical attacks.

[Rwolf]

I just hope that "support effects for physical attacks" new geomancy spells is Haste. Just regular ol' Haste. No -delay. COR's Blitzer's Roll is never used. Tell the development team to loosen their vice grip on Haste in general. The only two forms of AoE Haste is a support job accessible Blood Pact and Marches. I don't think it'll destroy either job if other jobs get access via other methods like a Hastega scroll, Accession + Haste, Blitzer's Roll changed to Haste and Geomancy Haste.

[Raydeus]

"Only because Malithar..."

—Camate - 2014

[dasva]

But if you are posting because Malithar bumped the threading asking what Idris did exactly how come you didn't tell us what it did just what it didn't do

[Kari]

I just hope that "support effects for physical attacks" new geomancy spells is Haste. Just regular ol' Haste. No -delay. COR's Blitzer's Roll is never used. Tell the development team to loosen their vice grip on Haste in general. The only two forms of AoE Haste is a support job accessible Blood Pact and Marches. I don't think it'll destroy either job if other jobs get access via other methods like a Hastega scroll, Accession + Haste, Blitzer's Roll changed to Haste and Geomancy Haste.

I wouldn't mind seeing Haste, but I also wouldn't mind them doing other buffs for physical attacks as long as they are potent and don't have drawbacks.

[Zhronne]

COR's Blitzer's Roll is never used.
True.
But this is because it has a negative impact on TP gain.
We're getting the TPgain formula adjusted in June, they *might* make it so stuff like Blitzer's Roll becomes a viable option again.

[Olor]

I just hope that "support effects for physical attacks" new geomancy spells is Haste. Just regular ol' Haste. No -delay. COR's Blitzer's Roll is never used. Tell the development team to loosen their vice grip on Haste in general. The only two forms of AoE Haste is a support job accessible Blood Pact and Marches. I don't think it'll destroy either job if other jobs get access via other methods like a Hastega scroll, Accession + Haste, Blitzer's Roll changed to Haste and Geomancy Haste.

Actually there is also diffusioned blu spells, but your point still sticks! What about indi-regain? If it actually gave decent regain it might be more useful than haste since haste does have a cap... then you could have geo and bard in a party.


But if you are posting because Malithar bumped the threading asking what Idris did exactly how come you didn't tell us what it did just what it didn't do

He says it boosts spells like Bard's instruments. Can infer from that. If +10 acts the same as it would on a bard instrument mythic GEO's refresh would actually be very nice - maybe worthwhile to stick one in a mage party of an alliance (ha ha ha that assumes mages would be useful for content!)

Still though, sad that a GEO would have to get a mythic to better (at refresh) than a semi-decent bard with AF3, the JSE harp, and the harp from a T2 abyssea VNM. Granted they would also be faster at it...

But still, devs should consider, a bard can get +12 refresh without anything harder to get than the JSE instrument.

[Korvana]

Please call it "Geomancy Effect +10" instead of "Geomancy Skill +10".

[Malithar]

What about indi-regain? If it actually gave decent regain it might be more useful than haste since haste does have a cap... then you could have geo and bard in a party.

I don't think Regain will ever be able to be made useful unless it's set to such a retardedly high amount that it almost sort of takes the place of a pseudo haste. Capped delay reduction, it's not out of the question to be WSing every 3-5 seconds depending on multi attacks. Considering we get tics every 3 seconds, you'd need 100 regain (or 1000, to follow SE's new way of showing it) just to keep that pace up. Stacking the two would be nearly pointless as you can't really WS any faster than that, though depending on the WS, you could benefit from WSing with 200+ TP.

I keep telling myself such a massive amount of regain is broken as hell, but I suppose since a single support job can cap magic haste, maybe another support job that can give massive regain wouldn't be so out of the question either. It'd certainly make Geo much more viable for 6 man fights. Any amount of regain that isn't something so drastic is going to end up being rather pointless though, as it wouldn't be worth using one of your two Geo spells to provide it, except as a pre-fight buff.

[Rwolf]

I wouldn't mind seeing Haste, but I also wouldn't mind them doing other buffs for physical attacks as long as they are potent and don't have drawbacks.
I'm all for unique types of buffs to physical attacks. I only say Haste as one of them because it currently exists and is that good. The ability to speed up physical attacks and reduce magical recast simultaneously with no penalty is a very strong buff. A new type of buff would have to do at least two beneficial things without penalty to be just as strong and desirable in my opinion.


True.
But this is because it has a negative impact on TP gain.
We're getting the TPgain formula adjusted in June, they *might* make it so stuff like Blitzer's Roll becomes a viable option again.

Bolded is precisely my point why that roll is never used, it wasn't lost on me. They could do a -Delay with no penalty but at that point, they might as well make it Haste. From what I observed of the past post regarding changes to TP. The change is only revealing the currently hidden number (300 to 3000). I interpreted that as things will change down the road, because gear, spells and abilities be accurately judged. That down this will also result in new additions. For example: Something adding +125 TP where before all you would see right now is 12%. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me and quote your source for reference.


Actually there is also diffusioned blu spells, but your point still sticks! What about indi-regain? If it actually gave decent regain it might be more useful than haste since haste does have a cap... then you could have geo and bard in a party.

He says it boosts spells like Bard's instruments. Can infer from that. If +10 acts the same as it would on a bard instrument mythic GEO's refresh would actually be very nice - maybe worthwhile to stick one in a mage party of an alliance (ha ha ha that assumes mages would be useful for content!)

I forgot about Diffusion + Blue Magic Haste. That's another ability I personally think should be shorter in recast or Blue Magic buff duration longer myself. Camate did say they are working on adding +potency to other equipment. Hopefully that means eventually Geomancer gets to the point of where Bard is. Example: How Gjallarhorn is the obvious best +potency piece overall, but the difference without it is not that massive on some songs with +potency instruments.

------

To summarize, I'm not against alternative boosts to physical attacks besides Haste. However the utility would have to be massive to be competitive with Haste in the majority of newer content which is lower manned and space may be limited. Haste is very desirable and effective in the majority of strategies and situations. In my opinion, it would easier to balance jobs in the same category by having them share the strongest buffs, including Haste, to be more interchangeable to support lowman content.

"Supportive" type job identity can defined in a variety of ways: Gameplay, types of crowd control, types of damage dealt, types of recovery, prevention, and what they can bring individually to larger scale alliance (7 player +) fights that stack with each other.

[AppropriateName5786]

The potency of GEO spells is not the problem, it's the quantity. 2 spells is NOT ENOUGH. That's really all there is to it. If the devs just gave GEO four spells (2 geo- 2 indi-) instead of two and stopped trying to fix the job's horrible design with more horrible ideas, GEO could be both useful and unique.

With 3 spells you could stack -Def/+Att, and still give the casters Refresh. With 4, you could do 2 Indi debuffs, 1 Geo debuff (e.g. -Def/+Att/-Eva), and put Geo-Refresh on casters. You wouldn't need capped haste as badly because the dps boost would be able to hold its own, or it can be tweaked so that it is equal in dps to double Marches.

BRD is the buffer standard now. It seems like SE is balancing GEO around COR/SMN when they should really be balancing COR/GEO/SMN around BRD.

[Rwolf]

I completely agree that 2 simultaneous effects is the biggest issue with Geomancer. It severely limits the job's utility in exchange for potency. Support jobs are normally desirable (in parties not alliances) for their wide range of utility versus potency. Just being potent in 1 to 2 specific things at a time, makes the job a very niche role and hence very hard to be competitive in small groups. Where you have to enhance the front line, enhance the back line, and enfeeble and/or crowd control the enemy.

[Einalem]

I'm only a 33 Geo at the moment, but:

1) Geomancer can have two Colures out at a time.
2) It should be rewarded to keep loupans out longer, especially if they are receiving/have received Damage taken bonuses.
3) The current lack of the job is Haste; there are two types of jobs, Front line and Back line.

If I were to do something to Geomancy, I'd

1) Increase the buff duration post colure. Currently there is a small window of time after a colure expires where the buff/debuff seems to persist.
I would increase this window to better allow recasting.

2) I would add a separate passive bonus to Geo-colures and Indi-colures, repspectively. I'd make Indi-colures add to spell cast time reduction and Geo-colures add to melee haste (I may have the terminology wrong, forgive me). These bonuses wouldn't be static, though. They would have a cap, but would increase in potency the longer they are out until that cap.

This would add desirable passive bonuses for Frontline/Backline jobs without giving true haste.

[Ultimoore]

Ok let me get this out of the way, I am not an expert in anyway. I am how ever in a combat related job and I understand what everyone is saying. Now before I get started I just want to say everyone is right. As well if I begin to go insane and speak gibberish I hope one of you out there can translate what I am about to say on my understanding of Support jobs like Geo......Let's do this.


Geomancer as a support is great as it allows the person to move from the front line to the back and supporting both at the same time. The problem I am seeing is that in combat a Geomancer should be laying down supressing fire ( debuffs ) on the enemy while buffing the front line and helping the rear flanks. Now this allows the Geomancer the flexibility to move within the battle space with ease to get the full battle situation awareness. Really common sense. 3 spells to cast is all a Geo needs. But how can a job like Geo do his job with out the proper kit? That's like giving a infantier a blanket and a 2x4 with a rusty nail hanging out for battle and telling him / her to "Help win the battle" (For realzies?!). Geo is a middle man like the Brd or Cor, He needs proper kit. Jerkins (Brd's and COR's get these over this guy, the heck?!) , Bows even a polearm or sword would be ideal to add to the Geos arsenal. I am not saying they are dishing physical damage with a Warrior or Dark Knight but what I am saying is that Geo has the middle ground in terms of situational battle space awareness and should have that flexablility to do such if the situation is needed. Yes Geo is a support mage by definition but as a Geo in the "Poop" of things, these things in my humble opinion need to happen.

- Able to cast 3 spells over the 2;
- Able to equipt items like JERKINS, bows or polearms and swords.
- Maybe even make me smarter nevermind.

[Deifact]

GEO can equip hammers not that I agree that GEO should melee.

They are a buff/offensive caster class. GEO spells cost so much mp though that it's difficult or risky to cast any offensive spells.

[Malithar]

But how can a job like Geo do his job with out the proper kit?

Geo honestly has everything it needs and then some. All it needs is the willingness of pugs to substitute it in, which you still don't find very often sans situations where +MAcc and the like are needed.

I'm not going to look for the post, but I remember you posting about "JERKINS" before. Besides being a different armor class, I don't understand a desire for them.

[Ultimoore]

I'm not going to look for the post, but I remember you posting about "JERKINS" before. Besides being a different armor class, I don't understand a desire for them.


That is a perfectly valid ummm.... what's the word i'm looking for? Anyways, I know it appears that I am trying to make the class seem like it should be a melee but that's not what I am trying to say. I have a very hard time trying to properly get out what I'm thinking. Jerkins in my thinking process are armor type that... fit to the "ideals" of what a Geomancer is, Flexible. One min I fight a Gigas laying down some magic everything from Debuffs and attack spells to fighting a magic based creature and my "rod" weapon skills do more damage to it than my attack spells. Jerkins have not only elemental ups but also add say for the Northern jerkin -6 Fire +5 Ice +4 Wind and +6 Attack. But also has great Def as well giving me that flexability on the battle field . I know alot of you don't understand what I'm saying but as a support job I need that flexability to help where I can.

When I make a party with my Fellow and Ego's. I call ego's in and out like its going out of style. Like how people change gear for certain spells or abilities. Geo effectiveness in terms of magic I have little to no complaints I just feel Geo gets shafted in terms of kit due to his/her ability to cast magic. Geo after lv 58 (I think) never get to see a Hammer again. Why? they get to use one for the other 50 some lvls. Same with Doublets, makes no sense to me. I could also see a Geo using a Bow but that slot is taken up by the bell ( which I love having ). I am just throwing these Idea's out there really bounce them off each other and see what we can come up with. But I love hearing feedback. I don't know if that really answered it but I hope it did. Let me know If I am not explaining something properly please.

[Zekander]

Welcome to the world of Red Mage; you want to be a versatile melee/mage but you're really not.

[Kensagaku]

You may be thinking of the FF Tactics Geomancer, which was indeed a melee class, wielding light armor (iirc) and hammers/axes/swords. However, they were far, far weaker in their magic capabilities, limited to whatever terrain they or the enemy was standing on, meaning that the majority of their spells literally could not be cast. This is taking to the more magic side of Geomancer, which we see in a lot of other titles; FF3 and FF5 both accent a magic-based geomancer who uses bells as their primary weapon, and while early in 3 you could use a Geomancer in the frontline wielding double bells for good damage, it drops off severely in favor of their Geomancy ability, giving them powerful effects like Shadowflare and such.

Geomancer is a mage, pure and simple; while all mages have some potential to melee (SMN alongside their avatar, the advent of the WHM/NIN, SCHs and BLMs getting TP with nukes while meleeing, etc), the fact of the matter is that they are not built to do so in moderate to high tier content. Frontlines usually only have their physical attacks going for them, with only some (BLU, PLD, DRK) having some magic functions. Of those, BLU is the one who can mix magic and melee best; PLD and DRK have, for the most part, supplementary spells, i.e. Flash/Reprisal/Cures etc for PLD, and Absorbs/Endark/Drains etc for DRK. Mages, on the other hand, have a wide range of versatile abilities in varying tiers so that they can control their enmity generation, their power, and the general flow of battle depending on their choice of spells.

For a GEO, they have incredibly potent buffs, and even if they only have two, they can change a game. Me being GEO in my Incursion group with Indi-haste up as one of my buffs means that with one March my DDs cap, and our WHM can worry about erases, healing, etc without having to keep up a haste cycle. This makes their job incredibly more easy. Combined with Fury or Frailty on all but the boss of the area, my DDs kill stuff even faster, making our runs more successful. You could ask, "well since you're in the frontline with Indi-Haste, why don't you melee?" Truth be told, I used to. A lot. But that was a lower levels, 123-125. At that point, my acc tanked, even with food and better accuracy gear (Ouryu body eludes me yet though...). Additionally, my role became a ton more focused on stunning between buff casts, to mitigate damage to the party, so I constantly have to switch between my club for Refresh and my staff for either recast (Apa II) or accuracy once resist builds (Twebuliij). I can't keep up TP even if I could hit, because I have to stun every 10-15 seconds or so.

Unlike BLU and RDM, who are very confused as to their job identity and sit on the fence due to a mix of SE decisions and community expectations (BLU leaning towards melee with some spell use, while RDM tends to be preferred as a buffer/caster), GEO has a very set-in-stone role. They are a pure caster, which means they use cloth-type armor and are not intended to melee. I do wonder why they were put on hammers/mauls early on to be taken off later, but then again there's not a lot of those in endgame either.

[Ultimoore]

Geomancer has never been a "mage pure and simple". Geomancer has always been a Mixed class type. Yes their attack is not comparable to a melee type class but they do more damage melee wise over your average mage. eg: Wiki Final Fantasy jobs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_character_jobs#Geomancer).

Even stat growths on both FF3 and FF5 gave Geomancer very even stat with AGI and INT just having a lead over the other stats (shown here (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Geomancer_%28Final_Fantasy_III%29#Stat_Growth)). I see the same thing in this game. If the Dev team say made a series of rods that are Geomancer specific Handbell similar to Hammers for WHM, maybe giving slightly more damage on the Handbells followed with some jerkins it would help with Indi-Haste on the frontline. This would allow Geomancers to to have that ability to not be as squishy.